 recording as well. So our normal AMAs are all asking questions, but in this case, I think it's great for everyone to get a bit of a background from Zach, especially since he'll be joining us in Cape Town. He'll be visiting us and we'll be there the entire week. So I think it's great for everyone to have a bit of background of what he can do. And I encourage you to look at his background, maybe to open up his LinkedIn and asking questions about what he learned at previous companies about how to run marketing and how to have marketing be more effective, integrate with sales and how to benefit from all this organic demand. Zach, could you please do a better job of introducing yourself than I just did? No, that was fine. So I see all these faces. Most of them are static, but that's okay. And I'm on what is mostly a good Wi-Fi connection, but it occasionally drops in and out. So if it gets slow, just wave your hands and I'll try to be responsive. So I've been in the software industry, I guess 30 years, and I've gone through many different trends of back in the day, client server software, then web software, then mobile software, open source software, all these interesting trends. And I've been part of some companies that were very innovative, particularly on the product and marketing side. So MySQL, which was probably one of the first big open source successes and powers a lot of internet sites, I helped, I ran marketing and engineering at that company and created the subscription business model there and led that to about a hundred million in revenue. And then we sold that to Sun Microsystems for a billion dollars. So I like working in developer markets. I think it's interesting. But it is definitely a little bit different from maybe more mainstream areas. Most of the companies I've worked with are B2B companies. And usually it's where the technology matters. So it's not just a application in healthcare or something. It's usually companies like you guys where the customers care deeply about the technology. And early in my career, I was in product management and then rose through the ranks. So when all else fails, if I'm trying to really understand the company, I always go back to what are the problems that we solve for customers? Who is it that we're helping? What is it that they need to get done? And who will they compare us to? Or what products or internal things will they compare us to? And how do we make sure we're delivering good value to them better than they can get on their own or with homegrown products, etc. And with that, I'm happy to just answer questions. I saw a couple of questions on the web, my favorite restaurants in Ann Arbor, those sort of things. Important, you know, breaking news topics. Yeah, Zach, I'll jump in here and break the ice. The Ann Arbor question is a heads up, I don't know if Siri's on the call, but she always asks, you know, what's your favorite superhero? I'll let her ask those kind of ones. I'll start with a hard hitting. My name is William, I'll start with a hard hitting one. In your tenure, I'm sure you've seen the CMO position or marketing leadership seems to have high turnover within startups. We ourselves have seen a few shifts in marketing leadership. My question is, have you seen a marketing team that executed well despite lack of marketing leadership? And what were the attributes of that team? Or what did they do that made that the case? Yeah, I saw that question. It's a good one. It's thought-provoking because I had to think a little bit. And, you know, I've been in organizations like that. You know, I remember early in my career, I was at a company called Borland. We built developer tools. I helped create products like Delphi and J Builder, which were pretty popular in the day. Some of those products still even exist today, which is hard to believe. And, you know, we went through our series of like random marketing executives who would come and do a whole bunch of branding stuff. They have been very important. I was a pretty cynical guy. And at some point, you know, these guys came and went. And so I was like, you know, product manager, maybe later director of product management. And I would go work with my peers. And, you know, if we decided that the guy in charge was a bozo or maybe he wasn't here anymore, then we just figured out what we thought needed to be done. And we focused on doing things that would, you know, increase our visibility or our awareness or, you know, generate leads or whatever it is that we needed to do. More recently, you know, I'm on the board of a company in New York called Sail Through. They went through quite a bit of executive turnover. I mean, it's not uncommon in any company as you grow, you know, you have people who are there for some of the journey, but they're not for the entire journey. This was a difficult company, though. And, you know, we ended up, I mean, by comparison, like whatever turmoil you've gone through at your career is nothing like we had to go through at Sail Through. We replaced the CEO, the CTO, the VP of engineering, the head of sales, the head of marketing, the head of finance, another head of sales, another head of marketing, another head of sales. I mean, pretty much all but one of the executives has been replaced. And during that time, though, the individuals in marketing stayed actually fairly consistent. And I was pretty hands-on for a few months, helping the company. And there was a guy, Jason, who was kind of director of marketing and he was managing the website and some of the lead gen. And he was very much the de facto leader. And I would give him guidance. And again, he was close. My view is that the people close to the problems often know what needs to be done. And the challenge is everybody has different opinions. And so you have to try to figure out, okay, we can't do everything. We can't do every idea that everyone thinks of. How do we pick a small number of things that will actually move the needle for the business? And it's better if we all, like, you know, even if there's no, I mean, CID is the head of marketing inside your organization. And so you, you know, I'm not suggesting you undermine CID's role. But if you figure out, okay, here's all the things we could do. How do people across the marketing organization prioritize so that you're all doing the same thing? You're all pulling in the same direction, rather than in five competing directions. And Jason was pretty good at doing that. And even if he didn't get enough attention, maybe, or guidance from the CEO, I just said, look, your client is the head of sales. And you got to serve your client and deliver what they need. And there's lots of things you could do. But if sales is happy, everybody's happy. And that's kind of a philosophy sometimes in marketing to say, you know, like, I believe that one of the key things for marketing is to help sales close more, bigger deals faster. There's lots of things you can do. But if you say, okay, well, how do we, what can we do this week that helps sales? What can we do this week that generates pipeline? What can we do this quarter that is going to put us in a better position for selling? And then you can kind of prioritize and then figure, okay, maybe there's some things we'll do regarding PR or analysts, but we've got to first make sure we're keeping the pipeline going. And at some later points, we actually promoted this guy, Jason, to be the VP of marketing because we had another leader who didn't work out. And we said, you know, Jason's been doing the job kind of through all these different leaders. Why don't we just put him in charge instead of going out and finding some other person. And I think where you guys are, it is appropriate to be recruiting a leader because your organization is growing very rapidly. In the case of this other company, they were kind of, you know, very modest growth, you know, 20% year-over-year growth, which is a different situation. Yeah, thank you. I have the next one, which I spent some time in Ann Arbor, went to college there. Curious, what is your favorite Ann Arbor restaurant? Okay, so I did put that in. I don't know that these would be other people's favorite restaurants, but it's what came to mind. And whenever I go meet folks from duo and they say, where do you want to eat? I generally pick two barbecue restaurants, Blue Tractor, if you know that one, and Zingerman's Roadhouse, which is, both of those places do good barbecue. You wouldn't necessarily want to eat there every day of the week. You know, maybe Sundays you wouldn't eat there. But the other six days, it would be pretty good. Hi, Zach, I'm Priyanka. I'm the director on the alliances team, and I focus a lot on the cloud-native presence for GitLab. I put in a couple of questions that I'd like to ask. Excuse me. And I have a hybrid background in marketing and alliances, and that's super excited to ask you these questions. In your experience, how do you think marketing to audiences buying infrastructure software, people in our target market, is different from other B2B audiences? What are the key things to do differently or focus more on just your thoughts in general would be great. Yeah, so marketing infrastructure has a number of challenges. One is it's not very visible. Two is it's not very sexy. And three is you're often selling to developers, development managers, DevOps, people who are very jaded when it comes to marketing. The way I always kind of interpret the audience was their view was don't give me any marketing BS, just give me the facts and I'll make up my mind myself. And so one of the things that you want to do is think about ways, you know, what is it that this audience wants? And this may be different in your market. You guys hopefully are closer to the customers than I am, is that usually one of the themes that's very strong in infrastructure is that people want to acquire new skills. And they want to learn, well, what are the best practices? What is it that the great companies are doing? How do we do what they're doing? And so to a certain extent, if you're if your marketing is focused on educating people towards here's what we do and here's why it's valuable or here's how other people are using this kind of technology or here's why this kind of product matters, I found that to be quite beneficial at companies like MySQL or Zendesk, you know, in the early days, we were completely unknown. And our credibility was based on the credibility of our customers. And so we would promote customers who were using our software, whether it was like Yahoo Finance was fairly famous in the early days for using MySQL at scale. You know, that's more common today, but we would describe, you know, the architecture and enable people to see what we did. And so we made a practice in marketing of producing at least three case studies every quarter. Sometimes maybe it was four or five, but it was a discipline. And we, you know, the marketing team was small, you know, in the early days, it was smaller than your team today. And we would all take turns writing up case studies. And we defined a template for this. Who is the company? What's their industry? What's their problem? What were they doing previously? What operating system were they running on? What hardware? And then some way of quantifying the use case and the kind of the volume of the data or the types of queries or something else that we could quantify in this process. And we would usually show some kind of architecture diagram or architecture, meaning it was more for illustration purposes. It wasn't necessarily a super detailed architecture. And the, but the reason for this was important was when you're selling something, especially something that is kind of abstract like infrastructure or middleware or even tools, you want the customer to visualize how they're going to use the software. And so whenever we were in a sales discussion, you know, the the SE or the sales rep would show, you know, typically they'd show a diagram and say, well, here's how this other gaming company was using my SQL. And, you know, we draw some diagrams and say, here it is in their network topology and this part's in the DMZ and this part's outside inside outside whatever transactions coming here over the web or through some other system. And as soon as you went to the white board and drew something, then the customers would often get up and they draw their own architecture. They'd say, well, our system is different. We're not running Linux. We're running Solaris or we're running on top of these HP machines or we have our DMZ configured this way. But what happened as they were doing this is they started thinking about what would it look like if I was using my SQL? What would our situation look like? And so I found this to be super helpful. You know, again, you give people a lot of facts about what your software can do. But you have to subtly make sure that they start to incorporate what would that look like in their world. And hopefully you get them to go from this sort of arms crossed, you know, I don't want to hear about something else to, oh, we could do it this way. And if you get that happening, that's really helpful. So part of the job of marketing is to create these kind of case studies or other tools that help them visualize using the product. I think that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. I'm a big fan of architectures as well. I had a second question here, which I want to ask. And it's along the same lines. As you said, this audience, educating themselves is really important. And for that, they need to sort of believe you. They need to agree that this company is technically credible. I see them as a thought leader. I want to sort of get on the GitLab train or whatever train it may be. And so I've done a lot of work building up technical credibility for products and projects, but it's often, you know, you can apply to so many conferences, you can go speak at so many places. And I'm curious how to take that from this small scale thing to technical credibility at scale. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on how to achieve that. Well, you know, technical credibility is technical credibility. And at scale is at scale. So it basically just means you have to keep building one brick at a time. And, you know, there was no small thing that suddenly gave us massive credibility at Zendesk or Dua or MySQL or elsewhere. It's really more the consistent development of content that was accessible to broad range of people. And partly thinking of the personas, you know, a lot of our content at MySQL was aimed at developers and DDAs. A lot of the content at Duo Security, even though it's a security product, was aimed at IT people, not security experts, because we found in 70% of the cases, we were selling to IT people. So there's sort of an expression courses for horses. It means different people learn and absorb information in different ways. And so we tried to make sure that we made our information available in different ways. Blog posts, white papers, those might require registration, you know, but that's how we generate leads, webinars, those required registration, speaking at conferences. You know, if you get a good audience, that can be good, but sometimes it's a little bit hit or miss if you don't know how big the audience is. Trade shows were sort of a distance 4th or 5th in that category, because you get a lot of people just going to trade shows to pick up t-shirts or choch keys or whatever. And it said, sometimes we would send sales people to those conferences, but we wouldn't necessarily exhibit. So we would always try to measure how many leads were we generating from these activities. And some of the best performing pieces were sort of evergreen content, you know, a white paper on architecture or a IT director's guide to implementing blah, blah, blah, something that signaled who it was for. And then, you know, again, we would reuse that content in lots of different ways so that people could access it in different ways. And sometimes, you know, you have to just go out there and try things and see, okay, if I do a webinar on this topic, I can get 30 people. Okay, that's not that. If I do this topic, I can get 60 people. Okay, let's do more of that. If I do this topic, I get 100 people. Great, let's do that every month. And we knew, for example, at MySQL, any webinars on how to improve database performance, we would get like 400 to 500 people signed up for that. Because that was a topic, people were always looking for new ideas, new tips and techniques that they could apply. Awesome, that's really helpful. Yeah, you're right, that some topics just draw a lot of folks. I recently heard about a webinar that a different company, Rancher Labs did with GitLab CI, and they had 4,000 registrants. It's like, wow, I know, right? Does that even happen in the webinar world? But I guess it does. So now we have a data point. Thank you for that response. I agree with you that you have to just build brick by brick. There is no like, you know, software that'll just do it for you. I think I'm next here. Thanks, Priyanka. Zach Alex Turner, my lead sales and business development here at GitLab and looking at your experience was very excited when I saw level 11. They're pretty good friends of mine, been a customer and speaker for them, multiple companies over the years. And then as you were speaking about, sorry if I butchered the spelling there, sales room, I think you were saying? Yeah. That's sales related tech. Those seem very different from a Duo Security or Zendesk. Kind of, how do you pick, what are your boxes to check, if you will, as you're looking at, where you have aligned yourself for full-time roles, and then the board and consulting things you've done? Yeah, I try to be generous of my time to founders and occasionally to venture capitalists also. But my heart is more with founders than investors. But sometimes I just get asked. So, you know, in the case of, sale through is actually more personalization marketing software. It's not sales related, but the name is suggested of sales. You know, that was a company that was back in the scale ventures where I had worked as an executive in residence. And I'd helped do some due diligence on that deal when they invested. And it's sort of a funny story, or maybe it's not a funny story, but you know, when they invested, I said, look, I think you're going to have to replace the head of sales and the head of marketing, you know, at some point within a year or two, because they're not really going to be able to scale as far as you want. And then within six months, the head of sales got fired, and the head of marketing got fired. One, I think was performance related, and one was maybe more, well, nobody would tell me what it was. So it must have been pretty bad. And they asked me to help out, and I had some capacity to help out and, you know, sail through, excuse me, level 11 was in Michigan, and moved to Michigan, and connected with a guy, Josh Linkner, who was at Detroit Venture Partners at the time. And he connected me, and within a couple of, maybe a week, I was helping them out. And that was good, since I just moved to the area. But usually what I'm looking for is companies that are disruptive, companies that are in a big market, companies that where the technology matters. And that's maybe more true for you guys than for level 11 or sail through. And, you know, where there's some, sometimes it's just the chemistry, you know, it's like working with people that I like to work with, and seeing if we can't do something significant. Yeah, and I guess usually they're venture back, but, you know, you forget sometimes that, you know, not all these things work out, you know, and, you know, I think it's less than 1% of venture back companies get to a billion dollar or higher exit. So there's lots of companies that kind of, they get to where they're, they get to some period of growth, maybe it's 20 or 30 million, and then they don't grow so well after that. And so, you know, I always hope that companies will continue to grow dramatically. But, you know, as they say, it's very hard to know if the dogs will eat the dog food, you know, and that's why it's important to be in a very large market. And if you are disrupting older vendors, then it's maybe a little bit more proven than, you know, something that sounds like a good idea. And, you know, I hear a good idea from a founder and I'm super excited. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the customers think it's a good idea. Awesome. Thanks. More questions? So, is Suri not on this morning? Channeler Alex, Channeler, you know you can do it. Okay. Actually, from the ladies on the audience, how about, is it Brooke or Erica or Molly? Maybe there's others. This is Erica. I'll ask a question. One question for you is with regards to video and in your mind how video plays into marketing and content marketing, I believe that it's a very evergreen platform and you can allow stories that will allow folks to kind of connect with the, you know, product that you're trying to sell. So I want your thoughts on that now. Erica, I don't mean to jump in, but I'm going to say that I was going to ask a similar question, but in relation to live chat and conversational marketing. So I don't know if you see those two tying together, but it might be easier for you to reply to both. Yeah. So I'm a huge believer in running experiments. And you might have an opinion. I might have an opinion. Sid might have an opinion. CEOs always have an opinion about marketing. It's one of the occupational hazards. And it turns out if you're in a company of 400 people, how many employees are there now? 230. 230. You have 230. You have 330 marketing experts in the company because everybody believes they're an expert in marketing because they see so much marketing. They're also all a pricing expert. Yeah. It's too high. It's too low. It should be free. It should be this. It should be that. But so the important thing is to test everything. So if you have a hypothesis that chat is going to be good or that videos will be good, run a cost effective experiment and know in advance, okay, if I do this, what would success look like? How would I know if I was successful? And if in doubt, measure it in terms of something that moves the needle for the business. If you can't figure out how something generates pipeline or leads, I consider that to be a lower priority. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying activities that are typically higher priority and you have to make sure that marketing does the high priority stuff. And then you figure out how much bandwidth and how much time do we spend on things that are maybe a little bit more speculative that are good for good for awareness in a way that we maybe can't measure. And if you can't measure it, then I'm kind of of the view it's not an experiment then. An experiment means you do something and you can measure an outcome and you can decide before or after what the target was and therefore say was it successful or not successful. Now I'm not saying you have to have everything has a huge goal. You might say we want to run a video and maybe there's a link at the end of the video and you just measure how many people clicked on that link and browse back. And maybe your goal is we just want to see if we get 100 people to click online and then click through that says they want more information. So first of all, always measure things. I have a bias though, which is I am a very literal person. And so when I walk into somebody's house, like I go to their book cases and I can't help but read, take a look to see what books they have. Or if I walk into a even a you know, you go to a restaurant and they have fake books, you know, on the shelves and I'm like, okay, but what are those books? So I'm a very literal person. I tend to be attracted to written words. I like consuming content in that way. Like I'd rather read something than watch a video. But other people are different ways. So I do think webinars are good and those can be recorded and put online for people to watch later if they're not too long. And you edit out any you know, mishaps or boring parts or whatever. At Duo and at Zendesk, we did a lot of videos or particularly at Zendesk, we had a very good creative team that was quite humorous. And they did a video like stuff customer service agents say or stuff customer support agents say I forget the name of it. It's not stuff. It's a different word. But you know, it was a fun video was a little edgy. I encouraged them to make it even edgier to make it more memorable. But in the end, like I don't know if that really like I'm not sure any of the videos that we did that were just for fun really had that much impact. We never created something like dollar shave club that really, really took off. And I'm not sure in the B2B world, whether you really can create something that ultimately goes viral like that. Sometimes, you know, you'll get something cool, but I would be careful on experiments and video if they get too expensive or too elaborate. Chat online, like I think is great. We I've used that in a number of companies. And certainly the sometimes the best source of leads are like the most obvious things, you know, having a prominent contact us, you know, link and button and phone number on every page or at least the high traffic pages tends to perform very well. I sometimes use like when I contact a company like all or I started advising a company all do the online chat just to see if they're responsive. So I would definitely run some experiments there to see what happens. Just to follow up on that, I think there's a difference between like webcasts versus, for instance, like actual production video where you're going out and talking to customers and they're telling their story about how the product has worked for them or how they've gotten into using the products and then that sales the sales team can then take and you with other people as opposed to webcasts, which have their place too. For myself, I kind of revamped webcast that we did and now there's five to seven times more people on this webcast and what was originally there. But there's also this ability to tell the story from the customer's perspective, which could then be helpful as a tool for sales. So that was kind of where I was coming from that as opposed to webcast video, which is I don't think it's once it's done one and done, you know, people aren't as inclined to sit and watch a 40 minute webcast. Maybe that's true. Maybe it's not true. But I would test it and see certainly customer, you know, customers talking about how they're using a product can be very high credibility. And we did quite a few of those at Duo Security and we had a really good production team. So we were able to do it very cost effective. And, you know, we could we could measure the impact of that. No, those were those were very good. And people enjoyed those. Thank you. Yeah. What's your favorite marketing campaign of all time? Favorite marketing campaign of all I don't know. It's not something I really think about. It would probably be like some English advertising, because I think English advertising is very creative and funny. But maybe something will come to mind later and I'll put it in the shared document. What did I eat for dinner last night? I had a terrible dinner last night. My wife, she's not here in the room. So I can say this, but we had these pizza crusts that were very good, but we didn't have the right stuff for pizza for pizza. So she fried beans and squash and color greens and something else that it was like, you know, I love my wife and she's normally a very good cook. But you know, this is this is not the meal to have. I would rather go to Singerman's Roadhouse. Okay, back to technology and marketing. So let me ask you a question. How often are you guys getting out and participating in sales calls or sales meetings? I mean, I say for me, in my team, it's equal parts sales and marketing. Sales dev is the intersection of the two. But I think we do pretty well here. I mean, the product marketing team is constantly in an enablement mindset and putting on sessions there. I think from like a reporting line, we might feel a little siloed at times in the different functions. But when you think about like the individual people in play, I think it's the right cast of characters and everyone has the right motivations to make it that type of alignment, which I'm pretty sure is what you're driving at there. Yeah, I strongly encourage all of you, even people who are sort of like behind the scenes on things like web stuff, like just to try to hitch a ride on some sales calls or videos that are taking place. And just go insert yourself. Because when you hear customers, the kind of questions customers ask, and you see where do they get confused? Sometimes that's super helpful in thinking about, okay, how do I create content that's going to be helpful to these folks? What is it that they care about? And if you do it a couple times, it's great. If you make it a routine part of your month or quarter, it makes sure you're always getting fresh input. Because as your company grows, the types of people you get as customers actually changes over time. And you want to make sure that, like I saw this at Zendesk in the early days, Mikkel, the founder, was close to customers. He understood that. But as the company grew, he became a little bit more removed from customers. And his view was kind of cemented in the early days. And that was not actually representative of the kinds of customers we got later on. And I think that was a bit of a handicap for him. Okay, who else who has not asked a question has a question? Luke, Shane, Jordan, Paul, come on. Luke will jump in. Yeah, so thanks for your time today, Zach. So kind of to backtrack a little bit, going back to kind of running experience experiments and kind of looking at the data that you collect. We're kind of in that mindset. But then I think also because GetLap moved so fast, we're incredibly iterative and kind of working towards minimum viable change. So maybe you'd be having advice or sort of past experience to sort of maybe validate a test. Because I think the hard part is waiting long enough to actually see how that test plays out before we start a new one or make another change that will impact that. So kind of giving the advice there. Yeah, tests don't have to be perfect. But you want to avoid a situation where you're changing 15 things all at once. And then you don't really know what has happened. But as an example, in the perfect world, you do some AB tests where a certain audience sees certain things and a different audience sees a different thing. Okay, maybe you don't have that ability, but you have the ability to compare last week's traffic with this week's traffic. And you guys have a pretty high volume. So I think probably if you ran a test for a week, and it wasn't like a holiday weekend, you know, long weekend, then you could probably tell roughly, okay, which one, you know, we did this positioning or this call to action on the website this week, and we did this other one this week, you know, and if the difference is more than is below 10%, you could say, well, who knows whether it really mattered. But if you saw like, hey, we saw a 30% increase or a 40% increase. Okay, that's significant. And you can, again, I encourage you to decide in advance what is it you're looking for in if it's a click through, okay, how many people click through, how many people click through, but then bounced immediately, which suggests they didn't really know what they were clicking on and they got somewhere and then they decided it wasn't for them. So, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect, but you're looking and again, sometimes people are trying to get perfect attribution, you know, when a deal closes, we need to know it was influenced exactly by this campaign and exactly by this and exactly by that. It's like, hey, there's lots of touch points to the customers. We don't know which one was the most significant. So sometimes you pick a simplifying metric and you say first thing that influenced them or the most recent thing you influenced them. And you what you're trying to measure is relative differences. We see a lot of impact from this webinar or from this white paper relative to this other one. We know that the ROI white paper generally produces a lot of content and a lot of readers and a lot of pipeline. More than this case study. Okay. Let's do another thing just like that one. That's maybe a little different. And, you know, you have to run experiments. Sometimes we would try, you know, with Google AdWords. We just look and see if we change the title of the contents from a DBA's guide to embedded databases. And we change it to, you know, a CIO's guide to open source software. But, you know, 60% of the content is the same. And we change the intro and we change the conclusion, you know, can we at least tell the difference from those things? So, and, you know, don't be afraid to try something that's risky. You know, sometimes we'd try something and we'd see the lead volume drop by 30%. That's okay. We can turn it back to what it was. And at least then we know that that thing we tried, okay, we better not do that one too much. And, you know, Google AdWords, Google Analytics, they have some pretty powerful tools for seeing which things get high click-throughs. And then if you can measure all the way through sales opportunity, pipeline, or purchase, great. But even if you can't take it all the way through to close deals, even measuring the top of the funnel impact can be helpful. That's great. Thank you. Has everybody psyched about going to South Africa? Yeah. I had to look up on the map to see where Cape Town was. Any final questions? What's my favorite color? Well, since I'm a guy blue, although I'm not wearing blue, I'm wearing green today, but one more robust super question. What's the most exciting thing to you about GitLab? I think the category is very interesting. The growth rate is pretty amazing. And I have a soft spot or affection towards building open source businesses. I think it's super interesting. And so I think you guys are maybe in the confluence of several interesting trends. Something that's just interesting for me personally, like I like B2B and technical marketing, I think having a distributed company is scary and exciting. It's hard, but it's kind of worthwhile. And one of the things I think is cool when you build a company like that is you'll meet people over the years and they'll say, GitLab changed my life. And some of that will be employees in the company. Some of that will be your customers where they say, like with GitLab, I was able to do things I could never do otherwise. And I think that's very rewarding. Cool. Thanks, Zach. That was really, really great. Thanks so much for taking the time. Excellent. So I'm flying out tomorrow, tomorrow late, Detroit to Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Cape Town. And then the next day, we're flying north to go on some safari or something that my wife organized. And then I'll be back down on, I think the 23rd. Cool. Thanks so much. Like people, Zach is taking the time to fly out to South Africa for us. So if please walk up to him, tell him what you love about GitLab or why he should get involved as much as he can. But also tell him what we can still learn in marketing and sales and what he should help us with. Yeah. And feel free to pull me into any meetings that are going on. If you just want another opinion, another set of eyes where you want to get examples of ideas or whatever, I'm happy to work with marketing, sales, product, engineering, support, services, you name it. Like my wife is going to see Africa. I'm going to see GitLab. So that's how I look at it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Thank you. Thanks, Zach.