 I'm Jay Fidel. It's the four o'clock block on a given Tuesday. And we have a special show, community matters show with Mike Formby. And interestingly enough, we're calling the show Meet Mike Formby. And there he is, Mike Formby. There he is. Thank you for joining us, Mike. Yeah, it's good to be with you, Jay. It's great. We've had shows with you in the past. I've always enjoyed the time. And now you are a hero, a public figure beyond anything before. I will want to go through your bio, but just remarkably. On November 3, was it? We had election day. On November 9, you were announced as the new city manager. I mean, come the square in time, which is January 2 in the city. So congratulations. Yeah. Thank you very much. It was an honor. And it's going to be a privilege to serve again. You know, I've been out of public service now for about a year and a half. So it's going to be an honor to come back. Yeah, let's go through that really quickly. I remember when you practice law. I wonder how you feel about that. It's ancient history. It's ancient history for me, too, you know, Mike. But how do you feel about your legal career looking back on it? Yeah. So, you know, it was a great experience. I did it for 17 years in Honolulu. I practice maritime litigation, mostly in federal court for 17 years with our mutual friends, Bob Fraen and Len Alcantara. Yeah. And I learned a lot. I mean, you learned a lot just from the trial experience and depositions and discovery. There's just a lot to learn about people and character and human nature. So it was a wonderful 17 years, but it was at the end of that when I first got called out to go into the state and serve in a public capacity. And then since then, I've only been out of public service for about a year and a half when I was at Goodsville practicing again. Well, I gotta say, you're really, you're perfect for public service, just perfect. Thank you. And it's those very things you talked about. It's getting along with people. It's figuring out what the issues are. It's being able to, you know, converse about those issues. And every time I've met you or seen you, it's been impressive. So the other thing I want to say is that I believe that all lawyers have a duty to serve government, to be connected with government. Because government is us and we are them. And, you know, a lot of lawyers never see that connection, but you do. And I really appreciate that. Well, thank you. I believe in that too. So anyway, so I guess the first time I noticed you surfacing in government was the Department of Transportation Services in the city. And that was notable because, you know, I consider an extremely important department in the city and one of the city's principal functions, if you will. Could you tell us how it was being the director of transportation there? Yeah, well, it was an exciting time because the rail board had really just sort of started their operations. You know, the FFGA was signed, the full funding grant agreement was signed in December of 2012. And then I joined the city in January of 2013. So it was a really exciting time to start working on that intermodal system, which was bused, married to rail, married to handyman. And it created a lot of opportunity to think outside the box and do new things. And at the same time, the city was just adopting its complete streets ordinance. And so they were looking for design manuals on what complete streets would look like and how would you bring bikes into that intermodal connection? So it was really an opportunity to work with my wonderful staff at DTS and think big about the future, about shared use assets and making room for everybody on the streets. And so it was great three and a half years. I really enjoyed it. You know, if there's one thing that takes you back to that old board game, Sim City, remember Sim City, simulated city? It's transportation and all that multimodal because it draws, it draws from all these, it's multidisciplinary is what it is. And you have to think, you know, comprehensively about the whole city and it connects all the parts, doesn't it? You know, so I see it. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. And I was going to say the interesting thing, Jay, is that you know, there are still people that don't believe that. I mean, we still have people in our community that believe streets are for cars and that bikes shouldn't be on streets and pedestrians should watch out for cars. And I understand that. I mean, but time changes and the way people look at public infrastructure changes. And I know quite a while back I was told that if you ever look at any city or any state, almost the largest infrastructure is the city, the public transportation system. And so why wouldn't you find a way to make that accessible to everyone? And that's what Complete Streets does. Yeah, very important. And we'll talk more about that in the context of, you know, your city manager job. Okay, then you got in with Colleen Hanabusa, I guess when she was a Congresswoman. And you know, that's an interesting connection because then you learned about Congress. This is something invaluable. Can you talk about that experience? Sure. And I'll tell you, moving from Honolulu to DC was not an easy decision, especially at my age. I mean, it was like pick up and just move. But the reason I did it is because it was an opportunity. It's not so old. Yeah, I don't think. None of our viewers will find you old. You're a picture of vitality, Mike. Oh, thank you. But you know, what it was is it was an opportunity to learn something new. So the last time I'd been in the federal government was from 83 to 87 here in Hawaii as a lawyer in the military. And I didn't do typical JAG type work. I did procurement contracts. And so I hadn't been in the federal government for a long time, but I definitely had never seen the federal government from the legislative branch side. So when Colleen gave me that opportunity to go to DC and be her chief of staff, I couldn't pass it up. And then once we got there, I was very lucky because Pelosi put her on her leadership team, which means Colleen was part of really, I think it's the most 12 people that would meet twice a week in Pelosi's conference room. And they would always include the chief of staff. And we could go in there and we could hear the discussions at the highest level of the legislative branch, at least on the health side. And it was just fascinating. I learned so much during that time. And I met a lot of people and established a lot of connections. And so I think it was a very important two and a half years in my life. Yeah. But, you know, unlike the other mortals that we know around us, very few people actually have experience in the hallowed halls of Congress. And so you see it through the lens of that experience. And I really must digress for a moment and ask you how you see what's going on today with your experiences as chief of staff for Colleen Honebusa some years ago. You must have a different view of it because of that. Yeah, I do. And I guess what was disappointing to me was when we went up, we were in the minority. I mean, I think everybody understands that it didn't change until after we left, until after Colleen came back to run for governor. So we were up there in the minority. And what we learned very quickly was that the old ways of bipartisanship were largely gone. And Colleen is a very bipartisan type. I mean, she feels like that you need to be able to strike deals with the other side if you want to get things done for the state. If you want to bring money and projects and services home, you've got to be able to shake hands, reach across the aisle. And so for the two and a half years that we were up there, we did a lot of that. We did a lot of reaching across the aisle saying we need this in Hawaii. How can you help us? And it came at a cost because Congress had got to the point where there wasn't a lot of capacity and room for that. And I used to wonder when I was up there if there's an opportunity for that ever to go back. And I still haven't figured that out yet. I'm hoping with Biden maybe there is an opportunity for us to go back to the old ways where everybody looked at their role in D.C. as a bigger picture. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you compromise. But at the end of the day, you get things done versus it's the have so they have not. So when the pendulum swings on your side, you get everything and when it's not, you get nothing. So I'm hoping that with the new administration, we get back to more bipartisanship and we get more things done really across the entire nation. Amen to that, Mike. Absolutely. It's from your lips to God's ears kind of thing. So then you come back and you serve as a member of the Honorable Rapid Transit. That must have been an experience because it's been some years since it originated. It's gone through lots of changes. It's gone through controversies. And it's a hotspot for sure for anybody, any official to be on it. How was it for you? Yeah, well, I enjoyed my time on the board, but I'll tell you it was very frustrating. And then for the short period that I went in as the acting executive officer, I really got to see how difficult and how complex that project is. But it was frustrating because it just seemed like that we could never get ahead of the change orders, that there was always something coming down that would mean more money, scheduled delay, bigger budgets, more requests for taxpayer funds. And it just, you know, I just kept thinking at some point we got to get beyond this and we have to have a project that is on budget on time. But it unfortunately didn't happen for the three and a half years that I was there. We were always chasing project schedule and really project controls. So it's just a really complex, you know, a complex project and a complex system. Well, now you're going to have some time with it. Right. Yeah. So I'm glad you said that, Jay, because, you know, Rick Blanchi already cares very much about this project. And he also cares about the taxpayer funds. And so we feel like that with my experience on rail and working with Rick and working with the hard board and bringing the two back together, you know, it's a city project. There's there's no heart versus the city. It's a city project. And if if the full funding grant agreement, which is the contract is defaulted on under the terms, the city's liable, not heart, the city's liable. So the mayor might appoint board members and he has an ex officio in the Department of Transportation Services. But at the end of the day, the mayor's stake and the city's role is much bigger than just saying it's semi autonomous agency and they do what they're going to do. And we hope they make good decisions. It's actually more than that. It's a city project. And so I think you're going to see with with with Mayor elect Blanchi already that he's going to he's going to play a key leadership role in getting this project back on track, getting part in the city aligned in what's in the best interest of not only the transit riders, but the taxpayer in public. Well, he couldn't have picked a better guy than you to address these issues and help him out with it. I mean, your experience with with with with the Army in JAG, you know, doing contracting. Wow, that's perfect. And DTS, that's perfect. And for that matter in Washington, that's perfect. So this this will really be an interesting experience for you. But but let me ask, I mean, it's kind of it's kind of under duress now because of COVID. It's a money issue. And so even if you can manage to keep the change orders to a minimum, even if you can manage to, you know, get it sort of back on track as a city project, you still have to find the money. What are your thoughts about that? Yeah, you're exactly right. You know, at the end of the day, what you want is you want to deliver a functional transit system to the people of the city and County of Honolulu. I mean, the greatest disservice we can do is to spend all this money and then deliver a project that doesn't function optimally, you know, it's not efficient, it doesn't get people where they want to go. It becomes a blight on our neighborhoods and our communities. That is the worst case scenario. So you have to look at it big picture. And you have to say, how do we take this system that is almost two thirds built under contract and built? And how do we make it functional? And you've got to come up with the money, whatever that number is to get it to the point that it is functional. And my personal belief is that stopping at Middle Street is not a functional system, simply because I look at it from the viewpoint of a transit rider. And let me just give you a scenario. Imagine that you're a service worker, you're a service employee, you work for a hotel in Waikiki, and you live out in Waianae. And you get up every morning and you get on a bus and the bus takes you to East Kapolei. And in East Kapolei, you get off the bus and then you go up an escalator to get to the train station. And then you ride the train all the way to Mill Street where you have to go down an escalator to get on a bus. And that bus has got to go all the way through Kalihi, downtown, Kakaako and into Waikiki. And you're going to do that two times a day and take two to three hours out of your quality of life time. And it's just not necessary. So I think the goal is to make maximum use of the investment so far by coming up with the money that we need to get it to a point that it's functional. So optimally, it would be Alamoana Center, but if not, where could it be functional? Is it a low hot tower? Some people have talked about Chinatown. I don't know what the answer is, but that's the homework that Hart needs to do. If we can get it all the way to Alamoana Center, get it to Alamoana Center because that's a perfect place for people to transfer to ground transportation and get on into their jobs. And it's also a perfect place to pick up and get it to UH. But if we can't get it there for some reason, because we can't solve that funding puzzle in the middle of COVID, then at least commit that we're going to make it a functional system and we're not going to deliver something that doesn't work to the taxpayers. So when you talk about increasing the miles from Middle Street on East, there's got to be expense there. What is that expense? Is it the expense of getting right away? Because to actually build a mile of rail, that's a definable amount of money to put the tracks down. But it seems to me that if you don't have right away, it's hard to budget for that because you don't know exactly what it's going to cost you and you know that people are going to try to take advantage of the condemnation procedure and delay you and so forth. So where are we in terms of right away? I think the right-of-way issue has only, well I think it was largely resolved. I think the project knew what right-of-way they needed to secure to be able to get the project down on the center. It's only recently with the utility issue, the undergrounding of utilities in the Dillingham corridor that they've had to consider some shifts in the alignment of those utilities that might make them have to go back and acquire more guideway. I mean, not guideway, right-of-way. So that's where the right-of-way issue is. It's really a distinct issue from the bigger picture of right-of-way for the project as a whole. It's little things that are necessary to make those little movements to be able to get the undergrounding of utilities down the Dillingham corridor. And I'm convinced that that hard will come up with a plan to do that. It's just how much time it's going to take and how much money it's going to cost. That has always been one of the highest cost critical path issues for the rail project, the Dillingham corridor. And so I know the team is busy at work, they're working on it, they're working on their design drawings, they're trying to work with the city and county to see if they can get some variances so that they don't have to move too much. But if they have to move, they'll have to work on those right-of-way takes. Yeah, really important. You know, I've been home for most of COVID. We operate think tech on a remote virtual basis, as you know. It doesn't matter where you are, we can reach you by Zoom. And once in a while, for reasons that are requirements, I have to go out. And what amazes me, Mike, is I go out and I think, well, we have a pandemic going. There's going to be no traffic wrong. There's traffic everywhere. And everybody's out. The roads are crowded. In case you forgot, there was a time in COVID when it was really quiet on the poly and on the main thoroughfares around the city. Not anymore. They're back. And it reminds you that we do have a need for community transportation. And if we don't do anything, we'll all be in lockup. We won't be able to get around. That was where it was going before. And I suggest that's where it's going now. And it means that rail, whether you liked it before or not, becomes more and more important. Transportation becomes critical to deal with what we know is going to happen at the end of COVID. Don't you agree? Yeah, I agree 100%. I'll tell you, when I went to DC, I bought a condominium and my condominium had a parking space. But I didn't buy a car because I could walk to two rail stations. I was right between them. I could walk a half mile one way and a half mile the other way and reach a rail station. And I rode the rail every day that I was out in DC, winter, summer, and I loved it. And while you're on the rail, you can read a book or you can do email. I mean, there's so many things you can do that are productive and really enhance the quality of life versus sit in a car, stopping and going on a freeway. So I've always been a believer and I know there are people that don't share my belief. I've always been a believer that when this project, when the rail system is up and running, the numbers are actually going to be greater in the future than people estimated versus less. Because I think if you're on the freeway and you see that rail car going by, you're going to think, why am I not on that rail? I mean, it really is going to be a solution for future generations. So I'm a big advocate. I totally agree. I think right now it's been made clear that we have to do this and your background in transportation is going to be invaluable. On the other hand, right now, my guess would be that the Trump administration has not been as forthcoming in federal funding as it might have been to support the project. And my guess would be that Joe Biden could be a better partner, so to speak, to help you fund a huge project like this, which is over 10 billion already. So do you agree? I mean, has Trump been a responsible supporter of the project? Has his administration helped as much as it could have, should have, would have? Is Joe Biden going to be a better supporter? Well, I look at it this way, Jay. I look at it a little differently. The way I look at it is that it's the federal transit administration. And they grew a little bit skeptical about continuing to release funds if they didn't feel like we had a good path forward. And so I didn't see it so much as a Trump administration, I'm going to get even with Hawaii thing as much as the FDA saying, we want this project to succeed, but we want to know that your plan is achievable, that you have the money to get it done. And so they've sat back on the funds. I think they're going to come through. I personally believe the $250 million that will lapse at the end of this year, that the FDA will find a way to extend that lapse date because they don't want to see this project fail. It's not in their best interest. You know, their whole role is to make sure that we have mass transit to serve the people. So the last thing they want is to see a major project in a major city fail. They just want to know that we've got our act together. And I think the mayor and heart, the incoming mayor, everybody's working together to show the FDA that we have the right plan for this last segment of the rail system. And I think we'll see the funds come through. The other modes now of transportation, I'm sure you think about this, given your experience, there could be buses and roadways and all that. What can we do? I mean, we certainly have not won the war on potholes. We have not won the war on making roads. I mean, I nearly ruined my rim already on my new car because of potholes in the life. What can we do about that? Because it costs money. And it's a quality of life issue. On the other hand, you've got a priorities problem about where you're going to put the money you have. How do you feel about that? Yeah, well, that's exactly right. But the reality is you have to maintain your infrastructure. And I think we most know it's like the infrastructure in your house. If you let it get to the point that it becomes so degraded, the cost to repair it or replace it is much greater than if you have maintained it all the way along. So it's the same way for the city. And it's the same way for our roads and our curbs and our sidewalks. We simply have to commit to a program where we continuously maintain it so that it doesn't get to the point that it has to be prematurely replaced. And it does cost money. There's no easy solution. I think some of the good news is there's always new technologies and new materials coming out that that now you can put down on roadways to extend their life expectancy and other life cycles. And the city has been looking at that, and it's worth the investment to do that. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're right. There's technology that can patch roads instantly with one machine. We have one of those little pieces running on our overnight, which shows a big truck comes along. It cuts a hole where the pothole is. It pulls everything out on one operator, right? It pulls it out. It puts a plug back in, and it's done in five minutes. This is out of Canada, Western Canada. Very impressive. Anyway, there are technologies that can be implemented for sure. Let's talk about the police, for example, on things that have to be addressed. I would say we had a kind of public crisis on the police for a long time, given K.L.O.H., whatnot, and all the prosecution. And now we have a new prosecutor that should be that should cool it off a little bit. But the police are an important function of the city, you know? They're part of the city's main mission. Any thoughts on the police? Any thoughts on law enforcement? I'll just tell you that when when Mayor like Blangeardy did his polling, public safety was at the top. I mean, not the very top. I mean, there were many issues. But I mean, of all the issues that the people confront and experience on a day-to-day basis, public safety was one of those in like the top five or top six. So safety and feeling like you're safe in your community and in your home is very important with the people. And we have to partner with the police department. And we have to make sure that they have the resources they need to do their job to keep the people safe. I mean, it's just part of living in society that you want to feel like you're safe in your home, in your community. And so I know Mayor Blangeardy, Mayor like Blangeardy has plans to make sure that the police have the resources they need to do the job. It may be challenging given, A, the fact that money is going to be hard during this when you call it recession, whatever you want to call it these days. And the city is going to have to figure out where to get the money it needs to do the things it has to do. Because those things don't change, you have a baseline of things you have to do. And then of course, you have COVID, which tends to tear at the fabric of our community. And a lot of people out of work, it's not a good thing. A lot of people, they don't know what to do with their time. They're desperate. Maybe they're not eating so well. All of this, all of this is going to be on your plate, Mike. Yeah, it is. And I guess I'm, I look at it as a challenge. I mean, we know when we go in, Mayor like Blangeardy and I, we know that the city will give us the draft fiscal year 22 budget, the one that starts July 1st of 2021. And we know that that budget is going to take some tightening up, and that they're going to have to be some, some cuts made in certain areas, and it's going to be hard on everybody. But that's what it's going to take to get through COVID. And all I can say, if you want to be, if you want to take a positive, I guess, approach to it is that the city and county is in a much better place than the state, because our real property taxes have not been impacted the way GT and TAT have. And so, you know, property valuations actually have been steady if not climbing in some, in some sectors. So we're fortunate in that respect where, where we still have revenue coming into the city, but there will be some belt tightening and those are going to be tough decisions that we're going to have to make. And it really is about balancing. It's about looking at the taxpayers, understanding their needs, what do they want, and then balancing those needs against the revenue stream. Yeah, you and Rick were a perfect combination. You know, it just seems to me he's, he's from the business community. He knows how to get things done. He's a no fool around common sense kind of guy. Everybody knows that from watching him over how many years in the media. And you're, and you're the experienced government guy. You know how to get it done within government, which is whole art form all in itself. It's a perfect combination of people, isn't it? Yeah. Well, you know, I, I didn't, I knew Rick from a long time ago, but I didn't know him personally until about mid year when, when he made it through the primary and I went over to help him on his campaign. And I've got to know him really well. And I'll tell you, I mean, just as a person, I like him because he's so grounded. I mean, what you see is what you get with, with, with Rick Blanchiarty. He's, he's very approachable. He has no heirs. He's not in this for like the glory, you know, and to be up written up in a book. He's a guy that wants to get things done. And it's just great to see him, you know, start that walk in public service. I'll tell you, this is an anecdote when, when we walk, like we went over to visit with the governor earlier, actually late last week. And as we're walking out of the Capitol, there's strangers across the lawn and they're like waving. And so he looks at me like, are they waving at you? You know, I said, no, they're waving at you because you're the mayor of less than they recognize you. But he doesn't even have that sense yet that everybody knows who he is because he's the mayor of less. He's a very humble man, but he's got this intense desire to get things done. And so I really, I think, I think I'm privileged to be able to work with a man like him who has this sense of being among the common man and just wanting to get things done. I think that's a great position to be in. How about you, Mike? What are you in it for? You know, you've done so many things and, and you're, I would just take a wild guess and say you're curious and you want to do kind of a citizen's job here and improve the community. But that's a wild guess. What are you in it for? No, that's it. I mean, I always tell when people have asked since I got appointed as the next managing director, I said, my goal is to be like in my office with my head down working, working with the directors of all the departments, get the city running as, as efficiently as possible. I don't ever want to be in the media. I don't want to be on TV. I don't want to be in the paper. I just want to be in my office doing good things so that when my time is up, I can look back and say, wow, you made a difference. And then I'm happy. I'm not in, I'm not into anything else other than that. And I, and I, I don't know. I look forward to it. I know that to be true in my own experience with you. And I really, I really liked that. And over the years, all the contacts we've had have been just like that. And that's why I could so completely appreciate you coming on Think Deck, being available to us, spending a little time with us, answering our questions. I, and I wish you well in every particular mic. You're going to be a great manager. And I hope we can do this again soon, really. Thank you, Jay. I appreciate you having me on. And I hope to see you again soon.