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aesthetic is 50% off and our extreme fitness bundle is 50% off you can check those out at maps fitness products calm just use the code may special with no space for the discount all right enjoy this podcast okay okay good cuz I'm gonna I'm just gonna come here and I just oh you're not well your thing dead fix your stupid ears then there's it plug in the right hole again did you put that the first time he's made this mistake remember no no it's remember it's high school yeah wrong hole Justin wrong hole just Andrew Justin wrong hole that was not that was not an alias I think it was actually I think sells I think sells okay he can dugs like a tech genius watch this boom sound it was literally are you good now blingo blingo presto change I probably stepped on it with my what I think happens is that we've been doing some remodeling here and it looks nice could you pull up before we get or I don't know if we are going whatever but I go to Lane Norton's can you get the Instagram from your computer Doug yeah go to Instagram pull up Lane Norton's last post I believe it's his last post he came after biggest loser and I want to dress some stuff right now mm-hmm so you oh it's a lane biolane right yeah yeah go to biolanes Instagram go to his last post is he is he angry about something again what did you not read it impossible okay okay yeah yeah I saw all that every day he wakes up and he's like well here's like I'm angry here's a thing I want I want Doug to read it read it for us so I want you to read us the post for the listeners that aren't on YouTube so they because I know Andrew will show it but for you can you read it for our listeners so you can read what he said yeah he said don't think I've ever told you all this before but I had a call from a producer of the biggest loser about being on the show during the call they wanted me to agree that someone could lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks in a healthy way I refused to agree with it never got a call back there's more to slide over if you slide slide okay Doug's there you go yeah yeah from a computer you know real arcade yes now I can't be sure that was the reason they didn't want me but they pushed hard for me to say it and I simply wouldn't to lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks would require employing completely unsustainable methods and would send the wrong message and that is exactly what I told them I'm a hundred percent on board so far the person who called me also did not seem to understand the difference between someone with a PhD in nutritional sciences and a physical trainer personal trainer anyway I didn't get on probably could have made a lot of money and more fame if I did not worth compromising what I believe like the the the mild flex there all right love I love that I love that too yeah so integrity is greater than fame or money I will find a way to reach millions of people but not at the expense of doing what's right and then he goes in on his it can now I'm sorry I'm making you read all this but I feel like we need to have the context because I won't have this conversation with the guys and then he goes on in his caption he I think he goes on to dig deeper in on the people that decided to go on on the show okay many of you guys know that I've been very critical previously about the show and the methodologies they use to get people to lose weight they encourage unhealthy and unsustainable methods very very low calories and excessive amounts of exercise in order for people to lose weight as quickly as possible because it makes good TV apparently however research is showing that almost every single one of these participants regains nearly all the weight moreover an NIH study demonstrated that they incurred long-term suppression of their metabolic rate five years after the show ended as I have said if the methods are unsustainable the results are unsustainable in 2019 one of the casting people from the show reached out to me we had a phone call and they basically said that they were trying to do the show in a healthier manner which I thought was great they were interested in having me on the show but they really pushed hard for me to say that someone could lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks and have it be healthy I repeatedly stated that while it might not harm the person in the short term it didn't teach them healthy habits and it was likely going to lead to massive weight regain after the show the person also did not seem to understand the difference between a research PhD and a personal trainer is it any wonder the average person is so confused about nutrition when the show doesn't even get it needless needless to say I never got a call back and I can't say for sure it was because I wasn't willing to say that 100 pound weight loss in 12 weeks was okay but I suspect that was a big part of it honestly it sucked that would have been a huge opportunity for my business and to take my company to the next level however I wouldn't be completely against our missions it wouldn't it would have been completely against our mission statement that is not what at Team BioLane or our nutrition coaching app carbon diet coach or our supplement line okay a lot of plugs there yeah he goes on it does he go on right here to jab any more the people that chose to be on it or is that it right there let me see here because I know that I like in the comments no it didn't really say anything about the people on the show yeah I mean okay so truth be told did you see the response to Erica fit love well I did see what sushi was saying now truth be told what he's saying is 100% accurate yeah it's correct it's it's it's entertainment right so it would be like making a cop show as real as possible or ER but as real as possible right so when you're when you're showing people losing weight if you do it the real way it's a long process it's not going to be as entertaining it's not the super high intense you know make you cry every single day they're on a production schedule which is like they have to accelerate everything and you know to try and pretend that that's going to be a healthy practice is just like it's just not the case it's not yeah I thought it was interesting that you even though Erica's name is not said in this whatsoever or Nora Steve Cook although everybody knows that they were the last two trainers on Biggest Loser she took personal attack from this and wrote a whole post in response to this yeah about the fitness space being so judgy you know and you know she she tagged us in one of the comments yeah we got tagged that's the reason why I'm addressing it because we got lumped into this conversation and in fact I commented under Lane's thing and my statement I said that Biggest Loser has done more harm than good change my mind that's all I said because I I want 100% get behind what Lane says I agree with what he said now he did kind of attack somebody's integrity that did now where I'll defend Erica I know Erica okay and she's got a huge heart and she comes from an incredible good place and I think she just doesn't know better correct I think that if you if I go back to my I don't know what year she is on it as far as like how many how many years she's actually been trained clients or how many certifications and what her educational background is but I'm pretty sure it probably looks similar to what mine did for the first couple of years that I was a personal trainer yeah and I wouldn't know any better back then and so I think that I think that she comes from a good place but Lane is actually 100% correct in this and I don't know why she decided to throw you know I don't think he's specifically attacking their integrity he's saying I can't do this because it's against my integrity so that doesn't necessarily look here's a deal if you're there's a lot of trainers by the way who employ these methods and it's not because they have bad integrity but rather this is the way they think it should be done so they see somebody who's obese and they think all you need is lots of motivation and I need to hype you up and push you and you know we're gonna make this happen and it's gonna change overnight and that just doesn't work it just doesn't work and never works so when you learn that and by the way it took me a long time to figure that out so it's not like I knew this right out the gates took me a while I mean if I had a client my first five years as a trainer who want to lose 100 pounds I would try to get them to lose 100 pounds in 12 weeks and if I did I would think it would be a tremendous success in fact they probably brag about it well later on you figure out this is a failing strategy it sets them up for problems in the future and so I couldn't you know later on if you asked me to do something like that I'd say I can't sorry it doesn't work that's not the right way to do it so I think I think Lane actually in the comment section was a little more he didn't name anybody but he was a little more direct about like if you were if you're the type of person that would go on this show then you lack integrity right that you that you're that and I don't it's harsh to hear that it stings it stings and and you know and he's not wrong it and again like to the point of not knowing better like I think that's a big part of it like so you you see like a Jillian Michaels or you see a big opportunity where this Hollywood company basically is like offering this this fame like more notoriety and change your whole life and you haven't had all the experience to back up you know a lot of of your your efforts in terms of training people coaching people you're just kind of thrown out there to perform and be energetic and hyped and all those types of things that's what the producer wants you to do right and so for the producers they want that type of person so they want the new trainer they want the person that has you know as charismatic is you know as a character it's somebody that they can sort of like write out the whole narrative behind like what the show is gonna be about and so it's a little bit predatory on their end but also to like you know you gotta you gotta understand like there's people in this industry that have been doing it for decades and they've they've gone through all these types of clients before and there's a wealth of knowledge and wisdom wisdom is the key here wisdom comes with experience so unfortunately that is a factor yeah this it's TV like if you watch TV and you I need to I don't care what you watch on TV if you're watching TV and you think oh this is real you've been fooled I don't care if it's a reality show or a drama the job of the TV you know producers is to make it entertaining and so if you're picking a trainer for a show you're looking for what are you looking for right those all the things that Justin said charisma a great backstory are they good looking are they entertaining you're not looking for the best trainer it's that's not what you're looking for because your job is to make a good TV show because it would be boring maybe a long process now here's a deal okay yeah we could place are gonna place blame on the coat on the trainers are gonna place blame on the TV producers you can I can understand why you do that but here's the ultimate blame the ultimate blame is on summer us yeah the consumers if consumers get a view if we didn't watch that kind of stuff they wouldn't make it a consumer said this is unsustainable yeah this is not real life I want to watch something that's real and that's healthy then they would make something that's real and healthy this is not the way it works so it's TV there's that's what you can expect from TV so it's not surprising and I mean look we we've all talked about that I mean if a show like this came to us I mean you know what I would try to do I would see the opportunity and my goal would be to convince them they would never let you I don't think it was just like having a lane I would be like hey this is what I want to do it doesn't hit it right on the head they have a narrative they have a story they want to tell them there's a reason why you you pick the people you pick to be the coaches because they want to tell they want to tell a story and it's not you get to come on and convince them and tell your story you're not gonna change the formula that's made the millions of dollars yeah no they they're not gonna do that and that's that and I think that's part of Lane's point is that you have to conform but my me defending Erica is that I don't think she knows she still doesn't know better I mean if you watch how she trains she still thinks that it's like you have your way of training they have their way of training we all are disagreeing on this works for me right and that's and I would challenge that and that's just because you're not there yet you think because you lost someone 30 or 50 pounds temporarily that you've changed your life no you haven't you have not you got them to lose 30 or 50 pounds right now what you didn't do is you didn't give them long-term behaviors check back in with me those five those people in five years yeah they because you got a moving like crazy and reducing calories you got them temporary success but unless they address the issues why they put that way back on and you gave them more of a sustainable routine and the reason why I know that's not what she's giving is because I can see the way she trains herself yeah she still trains like she's on the biggest loser everything's high intensity and moving and cardio and super sets and burn burn burn and that's a this is a failing this is and we've people that have been in the space like Lane or ourselves as long as we have know this is a long-term failing method maybe short-term like Lane's point is yeah but I don't think this is an integrity issue I think that she's an amazing person yeah I think she has an incredible heart yeah I think to her defense passion she's looking at this and saying we're helping these people we're gonna lose weight and it worked for me and here's a deal if you look at people who employ these strategies to lose a lot of weight you're gonna look at probably close to a 90 or 95% fail right right but that means there's a 5 to 10% quote unquote success right and success as measured by someone who has maintained the weight loss for let's say 5 to 10 years is typically how they how they count it right so they're not looking at lifetime it's like when you look at cancer survival they say five years they don't look at 15 or 20 it's about 5 to 10 years that they'll look at this now how do those people 5 to 10 years later keep the weight off employing these methods it is fanatical and it is not something that most people want to do in fact the the fanaticism that allows you to keep beating the shit out of your body and restricting yourself I would argue is unhealthy so it's failing across the board it's not a successful strategy across the board definitely not for the 90% of the people who end up gaining the way back but also for the 5 to 10% who figure out a way to make themselves so fanatical about what they're doing and beating themselves up that's also feeling what you see with those people by the way is a lot of hormone issues you see lots of stress you see lots of other their issues with food turn into issues with other things you sometimes see injuries and problems along those lines by the way I want to be very clear I know we sound very like we could sound very judgy right now look nobody's perfect you know know everybody does something wrong or whatever lane lane hurt how many times is Lane hurt his back doing the same shit over and over again right so he didn't know any better either although he's trying to do his best he's he had to figure out later on oh mobility is very important so and I've had those issues myself so nobody's perfect but this one for us is is quite clear because this is this is what I worked on for literally two decades because you got to consider the average person that we trained over two decades you know is the person that it's also very misleading when you're the trainer because you think that you're having success because your clients are telling you how much they love you and they've and that you are getting them on the scale and they're down 20 pounds and they and you you're high five in each other and you're celebrating what you think is success and it is success it's just temporary success and it's not done the correct way because what eventually ends up happening is 85 percent of those people put all that weight back on because of the methods that you chose to get there I mean and wait why this isn't judgy this is exactly what I talked about I was a trainer I know I'm guilty of this I didn't know any better if you were to ask somebody who I train in years one through three they would tell you I was a phenomenal trainer they love me I had a great personality I was positive full of motivation I answered the questions they asked me I pushed them through their workouts and you asked them did you keep the weight off that's right and so it was a bit of a follow-up it was a major check-in with myself five years later when I'm looking at the trophies the accolades and people telling me how great I am and me really going like man okay at this point in my career I know I've definitely trained a few hundred people where are they all at today it's when the percentage is less than 10% of them have really fundamentally changed their life forever not temporarily not for a good run for six months to a year but forever I had to say man there's not a lot most of them depend on me and my motivation to keep that weight off or keep them in shape and that's because I was employing the wrong things early on and I didn't know any better it wasn't a lack of integrity I didn't think that I was manipulating these people I don't think she's doing that either I just think she doesn't know any better and then you get someone like Lane who just loves to fucking attack shit like that just loves to like beat somebody up it's an uphill battle in the fitness and health space right we've been we've been pushed this kind of false paradigm of weight loss now for a very very long time and then on top of it if you're somebody who you know wants to lose 75 pounds or 80 pounds or 60 pounds even during the period of time that you've gained that weight at some point you've kind of turned off your awareness around it right because you don't want to face the the music you don't really face the reality that man I am not taking care of myself or man this is becoming an issue but then at some point 80 pounds later you have this kind of realization or this awareness you're like I got to do something about this and then this happens you become impatient I need you something about it now I want this weight gone now that's it I want to change now now you go to the trainer who says okay it's going to take us two years to do this it's a long process we're dealing with deep seated seated issues this we have to develop skills like discipline we're gonna have to develop a sustainable routine then you go to the other trainer that goes you listen you do what I say in three months it'll be gone who who are you gonna go to right you're now finally in this place where you're like I want this weight gone I can't believe I've done this to myself you want it gone in three months you don't want to do a two year long process the people who tend to go to the two-year long process the people that have tried the three month you know a solution and failed three four five you know many times how many times have you got in clients who want to lose 30 pounds and they've lost that same 30 pounds four times right before a good chunk it's almost never the first time by the way that they come to us you know I think well and I think too just I was trying to think about this because I do like I care for people like this that really have a big heart about like changing lives and you know doing better and doing big things the thing is once you get to a point where you get you know a lot more attention you get a lot more people listening a lot of like America everybody's like buying into your methods like you really have to check yourself you have to be open to criticism you have to you have to be open to educating yourself even further you can't just stop there it just because you think it it works in a certain direction in terms of losing weight you know you have to play that all the way out and see how this you know rolls all the way out and then be receptive and be receptive to change and so I just I like I'm kind of I'm sick of this whole thing of like you know like it like feelings are the standard now like feelings because if I feel this way it's right it's not right I'm sorry but you know you have to deal with that yeah if it's not right it's not right yeah it's but you know it's easier said than done right you're talking about of course you're talking about like you've built this identity that now is your success and now you have to say hey that was wrong like that's a really tough thing to do it's a tough pill to swallow identify very strongly with probably lots of success you've gotten lots of people I wish I wish that Erica would have left it alone because Lane didn't call her out and we never were judging yeah and definitely I mean we got nothing but love for her I mean we've any time her name ever comes up out of one of our mouths on this show I think we speak highly and respectful for listen man she's I mean how that's not fair for me to to judge her as a trainer and she's on year what two or three or four four where she's at we're 20 years deep come on right I mean if here and here's the other thing I have to ask myself if if someone came to me 23 year old me and said we we love you and your clients love you and you want to put you on to you want to put you on TV you get people to lose weight yeah I'm you know I know where I was at 20 years I'm just starting to take off in life and that opportunity I would see dollar signs and opportunity think about it this way let's say that happened right let's put ourselves in those shoes right 23 year old us we get approached by NBC come on the show your phenomenal be the most exciting thing you get to you get to help these people you become successful you become famous as a result would you have ever later on re-evaluated your methods yeah I know it would have it would have been very challenging even now and you know late much later 20 years later almost 20 years later I don't think I would have looked back or looked at myself and said oh man that was like the way I used to train people like you know five six years ago even you know like there's some things that I did that I'm like ah like why was I subscribing to that but but that's just the time those naked workouts naked workouts like why did I do that you burn more calories well I think that's also the you know to your point just not this is the hard part of when you when you become so famous like on T from TV or social media and I mean you're drinking your own Kool-Aid exactly you know who's gonna tell me and then it turns into and that's what's unfortunate gonna be the voice of reason for you what's unfortunate about the messages between both you know Lane and her back and forth is that it's it turned into all sudden we get there's different ideologies out there and it's like well no this is where I'm gonna support Lane like there's right ways to do things and there's wrong ways to do there is no subjective opinion yeah it's exactly it's not an opinion it's not of like oh we we are all both help we're all helping people you help people your way I help people my way it's like no there's actually a clear difference here you think you're helping people you're helping people temporarily you're not actually changing their behaviors long term and you won't know that until you've been in this game long enough to see that this is just an extreme example of this this fitness paradigm that has been pushed for so long which is burn as many calories as you can while you're working out that's what's important and then eat as little as possible because that's what gets the weight lost therefore that's what's going to solve your problem and it's actually super false in fact you know it's funny so yesterday I was in LA right and I was on a couple podcast down there and right before I got on Max's podcast he was interviewing me about the book so I was looking up more new studies on resistance training because I wanted to bring up some new fresh stuff that I had found and I found a study this is a newer one I wasn't familiar with that showed that muscle has a protective effect in terms of insulin sensitivity and protective against diabetes on your body regardless of body fat okay in other words you take someone who's really obese you haven't build muscle they now have a more protective effect against the ravages of diabetes or they have better insulin sensitivity as a result so regardless of how much you weigh now is that just simply metabolically because now they have more muscle their body requires more calories therefore you can almost guarantee that an X amount more calories and get partitioned is to keep it not just that right muscle is a one way your body stores glycogen and utilizes glucose and it's very it improves insulin sensitivity being weak and having little muscle is very strongly connected to developing issues of diabetes Alzheimer's dementia all the issues that develop from having insulin issues so muscle is protective no matter what now why am I saying this because if you're following the old fake wrong fitness paradigm like they do on on biggest loser you know it's happening to all those obese people they build a muscle they're losing everything they're losing everything are they healthier maybe a little bit in the long term are they healthier no they're not they're smaller versions of themselves but they're not that much healthier especially when they gain the weight back because typically when you lose the muscle and the fats you lose a bunch of weight but you lose muscle with it and then you gain the weight back you don't gain the muscle back you now gain the fat back so the guy who lost a hundred pounds who ends up gaining a hundred pounds again he ends up gaining a hundred pounds of pure body fat and none of the muscle that he lost that's I mean part of this for this issue is that people don't grasp this right if if you do weight just because you lift weights it doesn't guarantee that you're going to build no resistance training the way that I talk about it in the book is is not just using resistance okay running uses resistance resistance of my body right with gravity I could use dumbbells and barbells in and workouts that doesn't make it resistance training what makes it resistance training is you're using resistance in a way specifically programmed to build strength and build muscle that's it right so I could give someone a pair of dumbbells and barbells and give them a pure cardio workout no problem it is not resistance just because you're using weights doesn't make it resistance training because again you watch the biggest loser and they are using weights but they're not doing resistance the biggest loser Shay what are you thinking right now you thinking what have I done aren't you Shay six five Danny let go Shay get those people are not and here if there's any muscle built in those people whatsoever it's purely out of the novelty side of it because they haven't touched anything whatsoever but the likelihood that you're gonna be in a calorie restricted diet you're gonna be doing doing cardio plus doing cardio with weights and what we call cardio with weights is all those super set exercises where you're doing lunges to a bicep curl to a shoulder press to a side line no rest yeah that is cardio and just because you're holding on to weights you does not mean you get to build muscle doesn't work that way if you're not giving it the building blocks calorie wise you're not giving yourself adequate rest you are doing calorie or you're doing cardio in a calorie restricted place you're going to not only lose fat you're gonna lose muscle yeah and again the big problem if you look at the you know these these modern by the way that's science that's not a this is not an ideology methodology type of debate here that's how it works that's right that's right if you if you look at you know our problems right now our health problems right now really what they stem from I know people say it's inactivity to some extent it is but to a larger extent it's that we're weak we're weak and we have little muscle you don't believe if people who are like that's not true no it's true you know they do studies on college kids they've done these studies with college kids where they have them just test their grip these are guys in their 20s and their strength is I think like 40% weaker than guys in their 80s when they were squeezing doing the same grip test we're just weak and what happens when you don't give your body a reason to have strength and have muscles your body gets rid of it yeah your body's never stronger than it needs to be I promise you it's only as strong as it thinks it needs to be if you sit in a chair all day long your body will adapt so that that's about the strong as the environment that you present it continually yeah that's that's what you always have to keep in mind yeah yeah so you just got a weak body with with very little protection against the the ravages of lots of food and in modern life well I feel like a lot of this I mean this is really what the resistance training revolution is all about this is what you address we need to change the conversation the conversations wrong I would love to see and I don't know if this will ever exist but I'd love to see a show where that's what they're focusing on hey I'm here I need to lose 100 pounds no problem this is Johnson we're gonna get you strong never we're gonna get you're really strong I'm gonna get you a dead lift I'm gonna never it's not it's not it's not entertaining enough you know it's I mean to and to be honest with you when I remember that I actually watched Biggest Loser when it first when if the first couple seasons were actually pretty good it what happened was it became a game and it came all it became all about manipulating the scale that's what got the ratings is it and that's what got all the rate was the drama behind the scenes so the change the show evolved so if you've been watching since I've watched since the very beginning it was a 24 fitness I think was a part of their original they did it was that later they did it was late a little bit later they remember when they did the which is I really was shame on 24 fitness for doing this I mean they after the biggest loser they had there was a huge surge in circuit training again so curves did originally right and they put that that's right in the front right and that was all part of it was the club was it called the flex zone or some consumer demand that's right and so they put it in there and I remember at that point in my career I'd already known this is not the way and so I remember being really frustrated as a manager when I was getting getting message emails from from upper management saying that my trainers needed to coach people through it and take people that I'm like fuck that no way I'm taking me to let my trainers do that which I know I was the management and love but he makes us so much money that's what he doesn't really do it how about I just hit goal you guys let me run this place you fire you know that's why you never got fired right it's because you just crush well that was it I mean I was told that early on right I remember having mentors that had been in the space before me and said listen Adam if you don't like what they're telling you you don't want to do the things they're doing and you just you crush goal you crush goal and they'll leave you alone so and that was me too yeah that's hilarious but anyway so I wanted to talk yesterday about yesterday again because I did go see Max and Jen Cohen so Max Max Lugavier one of my favorite people in the world I'll tell you what man I wish I had a sister that I could hook him up with I swear to God I love this guy so much he's such a great guy but he's like this eternal bachelor it's it's so funny right so he's obviously good looking smart guy very successful but he's just this this bachelor that it's funny we were hanging out afterwards he's like man he goes I don't I just I have issues with commitment I just can't I'm like bro you're getting like so many girls are probably throwing themselves at you because you're so you got all these checking all the boxes you're a great guy whatever you're looking successful guy super nice oh he's swimming in the tang he's just so I mean it's hard to make a commitment when you know you just take some laps you gotta you know you need a snorkel because it's just you're drowning you know off air do you have you talked to him now has he always been that way or was he a little more socially awkward and quiet kid growing up and then he's he's blossomed into this you know he's famous guy it's not that he's that he's not he's he's definitely the he's definitely nerdy right but he's confident in his in his nerdiness which is what makes a lot of charisma though that's what makes him charismatic right so I mean I love the guy man him and I can I can hang out with that guy forever and have great conversation so but yeah so he's like man I got these and I'm like listen you're looking in the wrong places first of all you live in LA so I'm pretty sure you're not gonna find you know the person you want to settle down with a tough one here I said they're so you know people are throwing themselves at you left and right and so all the women in LA right now well I mean I know there's good you know whatever but you know there's that whole scene down there right especially where you know what you just don't like LA in the vibe I get it you know I mean there's good people down there don't get me wrong I go down there quite a bit but yeah it's hilarious you know we're having that conversation but he's you know I went and he's got his new recording studio oh so is that at his place like at his apartment yeah great place yeah we went in there we hung out a little bit and his it's such a bachelor right you go into his place it's nice but you could tell like he's just a dude that lives there so he's got like one guitar hanging out over here another girl you know he sings do you guys know that dude so you showed me had an album is that real that's real I'm actually jealous that's awesome he sounds good is it where can we find it I don't know I don't I think you'd have to go on his Instagram oh I'm still gonna blow okay at the end of this Andrew you got to play at least like a bit of that yeah I love you don't you cry love don't cry we need to be inspired and this kitchen is like just full of all these supplements and you know because companies send them stuff all the time so I'm like I'm in heaven right so I'm walking through looking at I open one drawer so he works with Paleo Valley like we do yeah I open one drawer and it's literally meat sticks and I mean there's probably I don't know 500 meat sticks in there he's like hey you know you can have some if you can't have it you won't even know if I take a couple you know they've doubled in size this last year paleo yeah I was actually talking to Shauna yesterday she actually sent me a really nice message they started working with us well I you know I tell you what so my my cousin he sent me over he sent me over a picture of the what's that of their brand epic beef turkey yeah he goes hey what do you think of these and I'm like I said that was a company we talked to for a little bit we didn't we didn't want to work with them I was like bro have you not had Paleo Valley and he's like no never heard of him so I had Shauna actually sent him over a package which I thought was really cool and I they just they clown on everybody the I have never had bro I love grass we got to bring that back yeah clown I love that I mean grass-fed beef turkey is tough to make taste really really good let's just be honest I mean and so stay moist and yeah not to like shit on all those other brands because I think that's just a tough task I think it's tough to get grass-fed beef turkey to taste really really good Paleo Valley nailed that yeah it's so funny I was walking so I was walking to the studio yesterday and our neighbors here so you guys know we have like a tattoo place like above the stairs and all that and they're outside and I was just walking up and they're like beef stick guy and I'm like what they didn't recognize you from mine pump just from the beef stick no because they're running it right now and it's it's on a lot of people Instagram oh hey are you looking for a great protein snack on the go that's not gonna leave you that instant feeling of regret try paleo Valley beef sticks Paleo Valley beef sticks are farm raised made with 100% grass fed grass finished beef loaded with all the daily vitamins and nutrients your body needs to shine here at Paleo Valley we prioritize health over profit have a serious passion for environmental restoration and animal welfare hey buddy consider a higher quality protein snack you'll actually feel good about damn that's good Paleo Valley because quality matters oh wow that's so wild looking so I was like oh that's that's so weird you know like but I was like cool yeah Paleo Valley he's outgrowing us Adam I know you both are probably all about talking with you yeah you big time in us with the book over here just with commercials I'm the most loyal man I gotta get something going on for myself I know how failure I'd be myself yeah Jen then I met with Jen right Jen yeah she's got to be the like the like I don't I can't I don't even figure out the word she's such a she's such a closer like she can meet people connect with people and get shit done nobody I've ever met my I disagree I think she's a female version of us she's just been in LA maybe you stick me in LA dude she's fire bro you gotta hear her talk she's so charismatic and so well I watched her Ted talk and it was a whole thing about being bold and that's her you know so and I kind of get that in terms of her just like totally going for it you know like with everything I mean look at her podcast like where it's gone from when she started yeah like these huge celebrities she came in and saw us then I remember having I talked to her for like two hours afterwards and she's like you know and I remember her like what do you think I should name it and she's like throwing names out there like I'm gonna do this I'm gonna go back home when I go home I'm doing this and then she did yeah call me a lot of people say that then they don't follow up and it's yeah so she's one of those guys and then she did it and she killed it you know saying killed it yeah and she's really really good at conversation very good it's funny I did her podcast right and so she read my book and then we're doing the thing and she goes I feel like you were kind of calling me out during the whole book I'm like what do you mean she's like I was the cardio maniac I'm the person you talk about in the book and she's like and it's causing problems she's like my ankles bothering me my hips bothering me she's like I'm trying to lift more weights and she goes but I have this problem which is hilarious because when we were there there was a production staff from one of the companies that she's working with so there was like a bunch of guys there and other people working so she's telling me this and they're kind of listening in and she goes and now I have this issues like my butt is just it's it's it's big now it's too big she's like I want I needed to shrink and I'm looking and the guys are looking at me like and I'm looking at them like do you know how many people trying to grow their butt are you crazy see how do I shrink my butt I'm like I don't know stop moving that's a great commercial for us really oh man what's wrong with you who was to shrink their butt too big talking about Jen Cohen I love her right and she so right now I'm a mentor like what my cousin I have a cousin that's like and she he's not like young anymore he's I've been mentoring him since he was like 17 18 years old he's now 30 plus and he's very very successful but he's found himself in this in this like range and I don't want to put his business as far as his finances out in the like everybody's but let's he's deep into six figures and he's trying to move out of that and he's like overwhelmed with stuff and the conversation we had a really long conversation and it reminds me of something that I think Jennifer is has a major strength reminds me of what I think has attributed to a lot of success with mine pump we don't talk about it very much on the show but how important relationship building is in the pursuit of scaling something to that magnitude right yeah like doing it on your own is you're either gonna drive yourself on the ground or it's not gonna happen to it and to give it and I I know we brought this up a long time ago but I don't think people realize like how we address that initially like what you did with spreadsheets and follow-ups and you know like making sure like we're giving things back to some of our our friends to make sure that relationship is still you know active and alive and so there's a lot of work that goes into that yeah I learned this like pretty early on in my career how valuable it was and so obviously when we came into this business it was something that I was prepared for that we needed to and it got so overwhelming with the amount of relationships that we built that you know we've employed people to help me with that and to keep me organized and really the the idea behind it is like these people that you meet you have to go with it with I want to add value to their life and you're not looking for anything return you can't it's not like oh if I do this for mind pump guys maybe they'll do this for me it's like no like I really like these guys I really like what they stand for so I'm just gonna be a good person to them yeah like when you talk about people like Max Lou Gevier and the thing like we did for his mother when she passed right and we sent her or before she passed we sent her over yeah that wasn't that wasn't we weren't thinking that was a business yeah you're doing something for a person that's right we met him we like him we care about him as a person he's a good dude and so we you make mental note of that and when you when you live your life that way where you you're trying to do for others and help other people it's got this unbelievable compounding effect down the road but it's not an instant thing you know what the irony of that is Adam is that if you're doing it for the reason of getting the compounding effect back it doesn't work doesn't work now it has to be genuine about it you strange you have to be you have to be genuine and care about other people and wanting to do good things for other people and if you lead with that and you're always leading with that eventually it does come around full circle and it's an amazing and I feel like Jennifer Cohen's an example of that yes she's somebody who does she's in LA where she's there's a lot of people that are trying to build things and do things it's a it's like the hub for California as far as you know what we do right so in entertainment business and tech and podcasting in YouTube and she's done it obviously done an incredible jobs and she started with building relationships and she's likable right I mean we well that's how we built a relation we met in fact I remember we almost didn't have on the show yeah we were I don't know about this girl it doesn't sound like it's kind of our style isn't that well let's meet and we meet her and what happens we loved her we loved her we really like her she built a great relationship with her so I mean I can't stress that enough like how important that is in business and scaling and growing because you'll eventually reach a ceiling by yourself and this is what I said to my cousin I said if you're happy where you're at you did it man you did a great job you're an entrepreneur you're making deep six figures you got freedom to come and go as you please you could take days off you could travel you do whatever you want like but I know he has aspirations to go beyond that and I said you're at a you're at a sticking point and you think it's all these little things that are falling out of place or because you were late to this that nah dude you are personally spread so thin that you've reached you've reached your ceiling and until you've you've learned to bring other people on that you can then rely on you won't break past you know it's the beauty of that and that's very true the beauty of that is in a in capitalism real capitalism not fake capitalism a real capitalism in order to succeed you have to give other people what they want you can't succeed any other way now of course there's you know we can work in government where you force people to give you money you could do bat you know behind the scenes deals and be crooked but in real capitalism you're not gonna become a successful millionaire or even especially billionaire if people hate you if everybody hates you nobody wants to work with you nobody wants your products you're not providing anybody value it ain't gonna happen so you can be as greedy as you fucking want to be but the only way you're gonna get what you want is by giving other people what they want this is a wonderful protection mechanism it's actually so people are just talking about we all need to work together everybody needs to work together that's what happens people voluntarily work together and sure oftentimes it's in their own self-interest but they have to give other people what they want otherwise they're not gonna come now you hit you hit max up you hit Jen up and then you and you did all this in a day in LA you flew back what was traveling like right now man oh you know I haven't traveled since the whole COVID things I know that's kind of weird what was it like for you it's just weird everybody's with their mask and it's kind of you know they have the seats kind of partitions all partitioned off in the airport and oh they did because the last time I flew it was like it felt like every seat was packed no the airplane it was but I'm talking about in the airport and it wasn't but yeah it feel like it was dead in there or did it feel no no LAX is crazy no no no it was it was popping but it was late because the last the only flight available for me was I left the I mean we took off at like almost 10 o'clock oh yeah so I was and I had gotten up at 5 a.m. that morning yeah so and then I you know so I was prepared right so I knew this would kind of happen I thought all right you know because there were two flights either I made the 5 p.m. one or the one that was at 9 30 I heard you I did you know that our team knew better and actually booked you the old of course yeah because I'm like okay maybe I'll make the five this guy's like I'm gonna make this guy's tells tells Katrina and Jerry that he's gonna make he's gonna make the five he's gonna make five o'clock he's got two things he's gonna do in different locations in LA giving himself a two-hour window no way and when it's two hours in between any spot when Katrina told me that I started laughing I'm like Sal told you he would make five he knows better him and I have been down there so many times I a look you know sometimes you got a dream and I'm like maybe there's not traffic anymore dude I'm gonna that means I'm gonna get home by the time I get home never like that down there it's midnight I got a baby right so he's not gonna you know that's really where you're at your head was that I went I want to be home oh I'm far I was gonna be screwed and so I prepared so I had my you know I had my headphones that do the noise canceling I had my brain FM my free I have brain FM I had the Felix gray glasses as soon as I got to the airport actually as soon as I got in the uber yeah put them on so that my brain could at least be ready for sleep by the time I got home because I was already hyped right I'm hyped from all these podcasts and I'm like oh man the bright lights in the in the in the airport in the plane so I had my Felix rays on the whole time it definitely helps so by the time I got home I was able to go to sleep but then of course my son decides to have one of those rough nights and my wife she doesn't she really really tries to you know kind of shield me to help me sleep but I mean I'm gonna wake up right because he's crying or whatever so I'm in and out it's always when you're at your most vulnerable like when you're having the roughest days when they like the challenge dude I'm so tired now you have a spare room so you don't do you get up and go over there like when that happens or like especially on a night like that or well I mean okay let's say I do do that right it means I got up and had to go somewhere else and I've broken up my sleep and it's like I'm getting tons of sleep anyway so I gotta wake up in the morning to get ready and I mean that's my routine right now at 5 o'clock it's actually one of the cutest things in the world though to see because I hear him first he's waking up around 5 a.m. right now especially when he goes down at 7 or 7 30 he wakes up about 5 sometimes we're lucky 5 30 but even sometimes 4 30 like you'll get up early but what he does is he wakes up Katrina gives him a little bit of milk and he falls back to sleep with her in the bed right away like he just takes his like he's waking up hungry probably gets a little bit of milk crashes right back there and they sleep but the irony is if I'm in the bed he doesn't go back to sleep because you're the place yes he sees and you know I don't know if I told you guys this but I play this game with him where I pretend like I'm snoring it was like one of the cutest things ever like now so so I'll like we'll be read like when we read during his before bath time right and I'm reading before he goes to bed after we're like done reading a few books all like trying to get him ready for bed I'll roller and be like oh it's time to go bed dad's sleeping and I'll pretend like I'm snoring and I've done it so many times now that he does it now he just pretends like he's snoring and then he comes over he wakes me up and then I act like I'm all startled like totally fucked myself because I've trained him this way so when I'm actually really sleeping he's gonna be slapping me in the face and he's laughing because he thinks I'm playing he thinks I'm playing with them such a bear when you wake up so so yeah I climb when he gets up when I hear him crying and waking up Katrina gets up I get up Katrina goes downstairs with the milk I go in the spare room and I go sleep in there is that way everybody can sleep for another two hours because if I'm in the bed he gets up and he wants to play the entire no that's my that's so same thing so it's funny right because your kids will associate one parent with one thing so if he's stirring she can't go in there and just calm them down by putting her hand on him because he either smells her or knows it's her and he knows she's got milk so he's like I'm not going back to sleep but if I do it sometimes he'll go back to sleep because dad ain't got no milk so he's like I guess I'm going back to sleep a speaking of that no that you know each parent kind of represents something different right for your kid there's a thing on tiktok that's going viral right now and I can't wait to go home and just try it and see what happens oh when you run yes okay so both both parents hold the kids hand and my son's age is probably perfect age to do this at somewhere between you know once they're walking right so one to two years old somewhere there and you're each holding their hand and you have somebody like across the way so let's say Katrina and I over there with Max and I'm videoing or someone else is videoing it and then we both let go of Max's hand and run opposite direction who he follows yeah and that's like a tiktok thing right now to see which way and the one I saw was dad all three times and they even switch what side the kid they're holding on and though and it was so funny because the kid runs the dad first two times right away to the left and they're like okay let's switch let's put dad on the right and so the kid initially starts to run the left and then realizes he's running towards mom and then runs the other direction towards dad you know they have to do another experiment though like have them like scrape their arm or something and then see which so okay so this is why I brought this up so this happened yesterday so I'm playing because I totally think that max would come my way it's like protective or fun I'm that person I'm hurt okay so him and I are wrestling around on the beanbag and he's getting you know more you know what's the risky or whatever that you know he's at that age now or he's taking a lot more it's just yeah courageous right so he's you know walking along the edge of that you know those beanbags are tall and he falls off hits his head on the wall and falls on the ground I mean definitely loud cried right away Katrina comes running down the stairs and I'm like and she's like what happened what happened but he's okay just fell down his eyes are I got and I'm like trying to hold them and it's okay so I'm kissing him on his head and stuff like that and he sees his mom he's like yeah so he totally is like mom's home base yeah mom is mom is food and I don't feel good like I lose every time dad is fun time yeah yeah hey real quick I hope you're enjoying the podcast before we continue head over to mind pump free calm and check out all of our free guides we have a lot of them there we wrote them ourselves they're very very good against mind pump free calm all right enjoy the rest of the podcast first question is from Michelle Ilan can you build muscle strength and muscle endurance at the same time or in the same programming yeah you can do you can develop everything at the same time if you want now here's the here's the takeaway of the caveat is that you're not gonna get much of everything right if you do that your body it it's got limited capacity to adapt and many times one adaptation is takes away from another adaptation for example if I'm looking for maximum endurance maximum endurance like let's say I'm doing long distance running that requires my body to become very efficient with calories to be very light which also means not have much muscle now if I'm doing that simultaneously with heavy strength training which is telling my body to not be efficient with calories to burn more calories and to be strong which requires more muscle they tend to conflict and so I'll get a little bit of each but not a lot of either one muscle strength muscle endurance they're not as conflicting but there's some a little bit of conflict going on and so if you train for both at the same time you'll get a little bit of both but you won't get a lot of either I love using the analogy Justin what do you call that we talked about this before on the show I think this is this I think paints the picture so well is you know the video game avatar like attributes they give you a hundred points but you have to like divide them up and speed strength and imagine and let's just for a minute imagine that attributes everything that you do in as far as training inside the gym is going to give you one at least one bar of everything and then the more specific you are at training for strength the more bars it's going to go there and the less you're going to get of the other things right and so it's kind of like that so when you when you look at training yeah you can train for all of them but you're only going to get maybe one more bar on each of them right versus focusing on one specific totally like that it is totally like that yeah I could totally visualize that and I know anybody else who's played games like that where you're going through the characters you're trying to pick the strengths you know you their specificity does apply and so if you're taking away from you know another direction that you could take your body you know that's going to affect you your overall performance and so to to try and combine everything together you know you could pull off like it you know like you could get some benefit in terms of like all of them but it's going to be a lot less than you would just focus in completely on yeah and also that we have to define muscle endurance because that's kind of a broad category right so there's the type of muscle endurance that allows you to do 25 reps of a barbell squat there's also the muscle endurance that allows you to do 20 sets in a workout and then there's the muscle endurance that applies to like more specific endurance type training where you're doing long distance running or rowing or swimming so all of those are a little bit different right if you want the muscle endurance allows you to do 20 reps in a squat well that actually complements muscle strength to a certain extent right so it's not going to be it's not entirely muscle strength but if you're the average person trying to get build overall muscle actually not a bad idea to do the low rep stuff with those types of reps in your workouts in fact a lot of our workouts are designed that way where you go through different phases same thing with volume right total volume is a form of muscle endurance so for example a bodybuilder tends to have more muscle endurance in that sense than a power lifter right your bodybuilder may do bit shorter rest periods they're doing more sets of different exercises this is how I always used to crush Justin right back in the days when we used to work out about 40 minutes in I'm gonna yeah well I had the crazy muscle endurance because I said more of a motor so it's like yeah you keep going through those reps and and then you know your recovery time was a lot shorter versus me where I was like constantly like I would do the long rest periods I was just adapted to that yeah so so yeah you can get both but you're not gonna get a lot of either one so just remember that now there's no wrong answer here for somebody right so think about what you want think about the physical attributes you want think about the adaptations that you want now for the average person who's not gonna work out very much does two three days a week wants to burn body fat doing the most effective efficient way possible focus on strength but if you're working out a lot and you're like look I like endurance I like stamina I also like strength have fun do them all you'll be a jack of all trades but a king in them well I think there's there's one aspect to that you have to address is the psychological part about why I like focusing on one specific the mental space is totally different yeah the mental space is different and then also the the results and the gains in that direction come on faster because you're specific right so and we know that that's such a big piece to be people being consistent like if you decide you're gonna write a program you're gonna be consistent about training you want to see the most results from that right that keeps you motivated and keeps you coming back because you're seeing change if you're kind of doing everything you kind of see a little bit of change everywhere versus okay right now for the next four weeks I'm gonna focus on all strength and everything from your dieting to your rest periods to your exercise selection to like your rep rep range everything is centered around that sure you may not get a ton of muscle endurance from that but you're gonna see a lot of change in that direction of strength from focusing on that and then the same goes for if you're gonna go endurance wise so I do think that there's a even though you said that there's no wrong answer and you can do both there is a psychological benefit also to being very specific to what you're trying to train because you'll get more of that right away next question is from N. P. Deering what exercises do you recommend to increase rotational power okay so rotation obviously twisting right and power is speed so the strength strength is that low gear type of movement right so like I'm grinding through a heavy squat or a deadlift that strength power is strength with speed so this is athleticism usually involves a lot of power so training power with rotation means you're going to train first of all if you do train for power make sure you you've got good skill good technique right and good stability if you don't have any of those and then you go fast you're gonna probably hurt yourself well and I also think a big misconception with power is that you know you're you're also you're you're also trying to be super controlled on the eccentric part and so you know some of the best exercises for rotational power from me or where I take a medicine ball for instance and I'm and I'm tossing it in a rotational fashion and getting rid of it so it's it's as much of my maximal effort as possible from the beginning to the end and then I'm done and then I'm recovering and composing myself but for the most part it's it's about that pure exertion it's it's on command it's it's you know being able to summon that force and then and then display that power all at once I like bands for this by the way what is your thoughts Justin on on and where does anti rotational work contribute to rotational power and strength like is that is that a must-have component to that or just as valuable in training that if oh yeah no I honestly I think that that's a little bit more in the strength portion of the rotational strength because you want to make sure that you have that kind of control and so when you're going through these movements you know how to you'll find your way back to homeostasis like find your balance and grounding so you can get more explosive so you have to be able to build that foundation so then you know when you when you're moving on the field your explosive you can reorient and find yourself and be able to stabilize so you have to be able to slow down that rotation at the same time but when you're just working on pure power moves I think you know with kettlebell swings or anything like that getting rid of the kettlebell I think is always a better option or slamming the ball you know and then regrouping composing and then doing that same type of movement again so what I'm searching for is that I feel like I think of something like even like a windmill where it's actually not rotational power as much as it is like rotational strength right but I think that that's important that we express that you want to have good rotational strength before you try and express oh yeah so you really own and control the movement doing things that like anti rotational stuff doing things like road like windmills for rotational strength so you have the ability to control in in that plane really well and then you can do things like medicine bell throws wood chops things that are more expressive to really yeah you you need to own you need so strength contributes to this physical pursuit quite a bit right so if you just get stronger you will increase your power somewhat no matter what no matter what you do if you get stronger you're gonna get a little bit more powerful now obviously if you focus on power you'll get a lot more powerful because power is a skill like anything else but strength is the prerequisite right so don't go and do these fast rotational exercises if you're not strong in rotation because you're asking for trouble because when you apply speed the risk goes through the roof in terms of adding nitrous you know to the engine it's it's something that you you know you have to really prepare the infrastructure right handle it and so I think that's where misconception happens because it is like a lot of the exercises people think of our strength exercises like if I'm on a cable and I'm doing a trunk rotation I'm you know the best form of that typically is to use it so you do add the anti-rotational elements to that too so I can slow down be controlled but when I'm just focusing on power I'm ripping it and then I'm and then I'm composing myself again then I'm ripping it again I love you use that example because I was actually just taking my client through that exact exercise and one of the things I was trying to get her to understand because when the client sees you do that movement and they just kind of look at the explosive part but I'm trying to get her to decelerate correctly right and and then stop in a controlled fashion and do that all with her core before we go back the other direction and clients they see the arms and that's what they're all focused they're focused on like oh your arms go here and then you stop here and then you can see you can see her shoulders kind of shrug and move out of position because she's not locking it in from her core and stabilizing there first before she goes when you have a cable or a band you have to bring it back right when you have a ball you can let go so that's why the control is important when you have something you're still holding on to because yes if you just let go and let it swing you back you're gonna probably hurt yourself by the way if you are gonna use something that's anchored I prefer a band for explosive rotational movements way over a cable with a cable you got the weight stack that's flopping all over the place yeah with a band yeah with a band it's you explode and then you can bring it back quickly and it's not as dangerous some of my favorite ones and this is where I get all the Instagram type of exercises that actually makes sense for this because you'll you'll get stuff like you know tire strikes you can do with you know a sledge hammer where you're getting really good rotational explosive strength with your upper body and shoulders and I can rotate slam it with all my might and then basically you know I have to like redo that whole process all over again I'm not dependent on bringing it back all under control I can really exert a lot of force so both you take me through this and okay let's pretend like we have a client who who this person's asking for rotational power but we're going to assume that they have limited rotational strength so give me you know one or two exercises I would get them first to get the the rotational strength first in the control and then one or two exercises that I like that you guys like to teach people to the for the power aspect you can keep it simple and do your regular cable chop to get strong and then eventually when they're stable and feel good then you progress to a band and you go fast or a ball so that's very simple you can get more complex you could start with windmills and cable chops and then eventually move to you know a ball where you're throwing it it's really about the progression right one is controlled the other one is fast get good at the control first good good with the rotation of the strength first then move to the speed yeah and and just some other examples like kettlebell halo or even you do it with a with a dumbbell and and you can go through that that pattern of rotation with your shoulders that a lot of times people just neglect and so just getting your body familiar with a lot of the function of your joints with your shoulders with your hips and just getting that rotational movement established and under control you know that's another good one and then where does something like Indian clubs and may spells fit into this whole thing right so once you get once you get good fluid movement and rotation out of the shoulders that's where we start loading that that same swinging rotation and so now I can add that and I would start like very you know slowly with with one to two pound type of you know Indian clubs and then take that through those same rotational movement so you get your internal external rotation you go through that full range of motion and then further on you can actually get a little more aggressive and fast with those swings too so they can become more of you know a type of a power move now would you put those kind of at the peak of the progression here so like I'm going to get my you know basic control and strength first then I'm going to do some band and cable type movements and then then I've got really good control I've got really good strength and mobility now I'm ready to do something more dynamic and a little more fluid with something like a may spell or like Indian club and then go to may spell I think may spells you know a bit of a jump skill wise from that but I think it's it's super valuable and something to consider that you can get bullet proof you can get strong in in rotational elements of of you know your shoulders as well next question is from you gut to v cut can lack of scapular retraction prevent you from squatting deep all right well okay so if you just gonna squat on your own without any weight maybe not barbell but if you put a load on yourself then yeah you definitely need scapular retraction is your ability to pull your shoulders back and hold them there and so when you've got that scapular retraction going on and then you squat oftentimes the upper back wants to compensate and kind of roll forward by the way when one part of the spine compensates oftentimes you see it affect other parts of the spine so I know I said definitely with load maybe not so much with load but even with out load yeah if parts of your back are starting to round you'll start to see in the lower back as well having that neutral spine all the way up and all the way down really well if you're not addressing it's going to turn into you know promoting it yeah and so that's something you got to consider too and it's very protective to have your shoulders retracted there especially when you have load so it has that muscle contraction there you know protecting your spine you know down and plus two then you get that forward leaning effect too if you're not addressing that as well where your shoulders are already on the way forward which then is promoting your body to go in that direction and something you're fighting to sit back on this was actually a massive cue that made a huge difference in my my squat technique and I did not think it was going to be that big of a you're all focused on hips and yeah yeah this actually helped me out a lot and now looking at it and unpacking probably why well one we all kind of have forward shoulder but it does a couple other things really well too so you guys have seen me do that uh little posture check where I have people stand and then your your hands go up before then you retract the shoulders rotate come down by your side and I used to tell clients like okay this is the anatomical position this is ideally where you want to be and then I would go fill your stomach and they what happens when you put yourself in the anatomical position like the most ideal stacking all the joints in order to hold the spine in that position what happens the core draws in the core draws in and braces really well just to hold you in good posture and so what I found was when I would get under the bar and I'd really wedge the bar down and focus on retracting and depression and locking in it automatically drew my core in elevated my chest up which are important cues for a lot of people with coming out of the hole in a squat you get down in a in a squat and at the very bottom it's heavy and this is where the breakdown happens a lot of time and if you already have excessive forward shoulders and your core is not tensed and first thing you'll see is someone to round and fall forward a little bit we tend to forget that our whole body is connected right so we think one thing doesn't affect another thing here's a test you could do at home right go try to open a really really tight jar and notice how every muscle in your body tenses up so you're trying to do it with your arms with your wrist and fingers yeah it's your arm it's both arms even your jaw your face is tensing up you're squeezing your legs and your glutes and your core because you're getting this kind of full body activation by the way that makes you stronger yeah you're not going to be as strong if i squeeze something as hard as i can but with my whole body relaxed i'm not going to be as strong as when i tense everything up and this is natural this is a natural thing that happens so when one thing is off if you're not trying to pay attention on keeping everything else a certain way it'll automatically cause other things to happen in the rest of your body and by the way when you go to fatigue or when you're training under heavy load the your body is going to revert to what it does and that is turn everything on everything's connected everything gets affected i've been trying to think of an analogy for that you know for a while but i it in terms of like if you think of the the squat rack um and in terms of it uh you know being bolted down versus it being free standing and you're putting pressure on it you know it's a much stronger when it's anchored and so to that whole effect of you tensing your whole body you're able to anchor yourself and ground yourself uh so you're you're in a sense a movable which makes you strong yeah and remember your cns fires signals in in specific areas like to the bicep or to the shoulder but it can't fire it as loudly as when it turns everything on if it turns everything on you get a louder signal to in one area that's why when you're trying to open the tight jar everything tenses up because your cns is like reserves we need strength we need power well and back to their specific question of like can this affect me squatting deep like what'll what'll happen you know when you get into a really deep squat it's it's pretty important unless you're doing a very low low bar uh squat for the chest to be upright for the bar path even with a low bar yeah i know i need to have a high chest right right so even you but it's a little it's less than if you have a high bar right because it's the bar path if you are if you're coming forward and you have a hard time retracting and depressing the shoulders and you're rolled forward and you get down that squat by the time you break 90 that bar path is starting to to go over the the knees and then you're going to feel the stress and the knees and it's going to feel limiting you won't be able to get ass to grass so absolutely the ability to retract to press the shoulders keep the chest high the core tight will make a big difference in your squat depth next question is from coral fit six as a new trainer i'm struggling with getting my clients to express how the workout is affecting them i usually get only short answers like good i try to get them to elaborate but it seems like they don't know how any suggestions you got to get specific that's right what you're asking that's your job what are your fitness goals i want to get in better shape right or you know okay well what does that mean you know a couple things you could do one is ask how do you mean it's it's actually more effective than saying what do you mean so if someone says you know how are your workouts affecting they're good and you look at them and go well how do you mean sometimes i'll get them to elaborate but oftentimes you need to be specific um hey how is your sleep how is your energy you're noticing any differences in your energy is your appetite any different are you noticing changes to your libido um now that you're stronger in the gym do you feel more stable outside of the gym when you're doing things at home and oftentimes when you do that people will go oh yeah how do your joints feel on a on a level of one to ten where's your soreness would you say you're a ten you're really sore would you say you're not sore at all like giving them the one to ten thing for specific things i think is a really cool way because i understand where this question is coming from because clients don't they don't know how to articulate that it's this is completely foreign to them and it is really on you to ask a lot of the right questions if you ask a vague question to somebody that knows very little about your field of course you're going to get a vague response here's your best example this happens to every trainer who does a goal assessment right you'll ask a person potential client you'll say um do you have any areas of pain on your body no okay if you leave it at that there's your answer oh do this they'll say no on the workout oh yeah no they say no go down the body okay um do you have any issues with neck pain or stiffness do you what about your shoulders what about your upper and here's what's going to end up happen you'll go down like what about your shoulders oh yeah yeah yeah sometimes my left shoulder kind of bothers me like okay left shoulder yeah what about your low back your low back ever get tight uh yeah i get tight if i sit down for longer than 30 minutes okay low back tightness what about your knees what about and then next thing you know it was like five different areas of pain i always have those conversations in the workouts you know in the rest periods because i would i would observe and if i had to in the beginning i would write notes but you know you'd see where the compensations happened or where they shrugged the shoulders or you know if they're holding their wrist or you know if they they wince a bit more than the normal or like you know they're breathing excessively you know and so those those are the types of things i pay attention to and see uh you know how i can how i can address those by them bringing them up to their attention then also like revisiting that later on no that's a great time to do that and that's where those are you know you have said you have a client you know doing something as basic as a tricep push down on the cables and you're asking them like you know where do you feel that and not what muscle don't ask him that because they don't know what you know what they say so where do you feel my core yeah that's why you need to ask those questions you know where do you feel it you know where do you feel or even more specific where do you feel it at the bottom of the of the movement where do you feel it at the top of the movement do you feel anything in your shoulders when you do it do you notice anything in your core when you do it do you feel your your chest you're asking all these squeeze your chest right now. Do you feel that? Right. And so you're asking all these very specific questions to the movement they're performing at and you're using layman's terms. Okay. You're not using all the things that you learned in your circle. If you listen to your latissimus dorsi. Yeah. Do you have say? You know, it's, it's, it's funny because but you know, here's the deal. Like people are not aware of the benefits. This is true. The average person really isn't fully aware of the benefits of exercise and nutrition. In other words, they're not even aware that they're improving unless it's weight loss, right? So if you, if you ask someone, how's your workout going? Oh, I lost 10 pounds. They know that. But if you say, Hey, how's your workouts going? And they're getting better sleep. Their skin looks better. They have more energy. They might not say, I don't know. I haven't lost any weight. I don't know how my workouts are going. People are literally not aware about all of these benefits cause we've attached weight to it, to exercise. That's it. That's the only thing that's important. They haven't attached anything else. But then when you get to specifics, I used to love doing this like, you know, hey, how's your workouts going? Oh, it's okay. I think I only lost a pound. Well, yeah, but how's your energy? And they'll think and they'll be like, you know, now that you say it, man, I feel way better. And it's like, you have to reveal this to people because they don't understand. That's such an important point. Cause we talk on the show all the time about that's a major part of being a really good coach is actually getting these clients to get away from the mirror and the scale. Like that's their two ways right now of measuring their success. That's the only two ways. It is. And they always think that way. And you're trying to get them to stop thinking that way and really make, cause that's what, you getting them to stop thinking about the scale and the way they look, no matter how much they say that that's all they care about is what's going to really determine whether you keep these people going forever because the scale and the weight thing, that will go up and down and change. And that will make them motivated and not motivated. And if you're relying on that motivation to keep them in the gym, they'll fail. But if you learn as a coach to as they're going through this process start connecting it to their relationships, their energy, their attitude, their sleep, their libido, all these other things. If you can learn to help them make the connection that, oh wow. And here's the cool thing about being a coach and a trainer, I'll tell you, here's the answer to the test. Guess what? When they're training and they're eating correctly, it improves all those fucking things. So it's kind of a rhetorical question but you're helping them, you're getting them to save that. That's what's important. You need to get them to keep saying that like, oh yeah, you know what, you're right. Since I actually increased my protein and increased my fiber, I do notice that my stomach feels better and I do notice I'm sleeping. You know what I'm saying? You need to, as a coach, being very specific and getting them to say those things to make that connection. Yeah, remember what you say can be true or false. What your client says is always true. So I could tell them all day long, exercise is gonna give you so much energy and it's gonna make you feel better or whatever. And they're gonna be like, okay, that's fine. But I don't know, is that true or not? But if I say, hey, how's your energy? And they go, huh. My energy is better. Boom, now it's true. Hey, how's your libido? You know, now that you said that, man, my wife and I have had a great time since I started working out. Boom, now it's true. Very important you do this as a coach. Look, if you like our information, you'll love mindpumpfree.com. Head over there, check out all of our free guides on helping you build muscle, burn body fat, improve your mobility. We even have guides for personal trainers. Again, it's mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So you can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump Adam. What the fitness people tried to say or the way they explained it was, oh, past six p.m., you're not very active. So any calories you eat past six p.m., you're more likely to store. If you eat it early in the day, you're active in the day and you burn it off. That's totally false. Here's what happens when you don't eat past six p.m. for most people. They reduce their calories. Right, naturally. That's right. Naturally.