 Hello, everyone. I'm James Milan. Welcome to this episode of Talk of the Town. This is another unusual episode of Talk of the Town, I have to say, because it's going to be a little bit of a combination of two series that we do. Talk of the Town, as I already mentioned. Another series that we have here at ACMI is called Million Dollar Gift, and it really seeks to draw some attention to the incredible bounty that we all get in the community of Arlington from the volunteerism of lots and lots of people in our town who are giving of themselves in ways that are invisible to the rest of us and we are enjoying the benefits of those on a daily basis. This is an example of that, and it also is a companion piece to an interview that I did with a couple of guests from El Salvador recently, and I will explain further or the conversation will kind of elucidate as we go along. That conversation that I had with our Salvadoran guests as well, who were Zulma and Lorena were their names and you will be seeing them in another portion of this program. But I want to welcome my guests and thanks for your patience as I was going on and on. They are Elizabeth Dre right here and Beth Salzburg, Elizabeth and Beth. Together, I don't know, should I say run? Run? Together but with a group of other volunteers. Of course, of course. Well, and everybody runs it. It's a democracy. Anyway, it is the Arlington Teosinte Sister City project that we are here to talk about and that is what my two guests are very heavily involved in. So first of all, thank you both for being here. We really do appreciate it. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much for this opportunity. Yeah, and I really, I was saying that there are elements of this conversation that really have to do with the million dollar gift because I'm looking at two very busy women. I know that. I absolutely know that. And yet you're, I've carved out the time in your schedules to, and I imagine it's a considerable amount of time to be doing what you're doing with the Sister City project as well. So I want to start by just asking you, okay, so why? Why this? What is your own personal journey and then connection to this particular issue? Either one of you. I'm not like, Beth, go first. Okay. I'll start. So I got involved with US El Salvador Sister Cities when I was in college. I was at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and Madison actually has a sister village in El Salvador called Architao, which is not very far from Teo Sente. And this was when the Civil War was taking place in El Salvador, which was from 1980 until 1992. And I was very interested in understanding more about the US role in Central America and liked the idea of the Sister City model, that it was really a people to people kind of entity. And so I went to El Salvador twice during the Civil War as part of the Madison Architao Sister City project. And I actually went to Teo Sente as well as a number of other villages in that area. And I saw things that completely changed my life. I saw people cooperating on a level I had never experienced in the United States. So these were people under incredible duress. Their lives were at risk every day. And there were agreements made by these communities like Teo Sente on how everyone would share the limited amount of food they had. If there was a cow, they would prioritize children and older adults to get a share of the milk. There was to be no gambling, no drinking. If there were domestic issues, the elected town council would adjudicate it. They had systems in place to help them survive as a unit. And like so many people from the US who had that opportunity to spend time in villages like Teo Sente in that era, we came back and we just felt like we had to bear witness to what we'd learned, particularly because the US government was funding and training and arming the Salvadoran military, which committed the vast majority of human rights abuses during the war. So all of that happened. I lived in different places, did different things for many years, moved to Arlington. And then I learned that Arlington was one of a dozen US communities that had a sister village in El Salvador. Elizabeth and I were at Great Expectations Preschool over on Summer Street as parents. We both had two kids in preschool. And so we were hanging out on the playground there watching our kids, you know, run in circles and throw leaves at each other. And we started talking about it. And Elizabeth also has a connection in Central America. And long in the short, we decided we needed to jump into the sister city group. And meanwhile, the volunteers who'd been running it for a long time were ready to pass the torch. And so we took it on. And kind of because of where we were in life, we wound up pursuing a school curriculum that has become one of the important parts of what the sister city group does. And Elizabeth has been really managing it and directing it for many years now. So let me pass it on to you. I think my experience was a little more maybe your typical North American who really had no idea about what our government had done in El Salvador. And my initial attraction to it was the cultural opportunity that it offered me and my children to sort of make a connection with a village and children their own age living a very different life than they were living. We were speaking Spanish at home. And there was you know, I was immediately drawn to that connection also. It wasn't really until we went down in 2013. No, our first trip. Oh, our first trip. 2008. That I really fell in love with it that I really felt that connection that Beth felt when she went down. It was pretty abstract for me. The people were pretty abstract. The idea was pretty abstract. But once I went there and was welcomed was welcomed like a long lost family member was able to sort of just sit at the table and sit next to people and hear their stories. Really, I felt like it was such a blessing that they trusted me with their stories and that they would tell me what what their experiences with the losses were what their hopes were. And I was just really overwhelmed to be honest. The sacrifices that these people had made of family members and children and parents and yet they the hope that they had the complete dedication that they had to making it better for the next generation. And not only the hope but the skills the community organizing the strength the experience the knowledge to make it happen. I was took me it took me a while to really process all that. And then I've never looked back. You know, I think it really was the people to the person to person connection that I was able to make and that you made when you went down there. That keeps us involved. It's been 15 17 years since we started 2005. Okay, yeah, whatever that is. That is a serious commitment. And I know that you really do invest an awful lot of your time with this and clearly it the way that you spoke about it just now. Very clear that that impact has not diminished at that first impact from 2005 hasn't diminished at all. Right. Or 2008. Whenever yeah. And we also took our when we left our the first time we we said to each other wouldn't it be great if we could come back with our kids. Like we really wanted our kids to have that experience of being in the village and swimming in the river and running through the soccer fields and just that that to take their own connections right. And we were able to do that. We brought our families back in 2013. And that's also an experience that has you know completely that's a connection they've made and now they are connected not only with Teo Cindy but also with that greater region and an understanding of the history of the United States and what we our government didn't in El Salvador. So that's also been really important to us. Well I have to tell you both that one thing you wouldn't know about me is that I I was a high school teacher for many years and one of the courses I taught was Latin American history because I also I grew up outside the country. I lived in Nicaragua as a young person and have always felt a connection for those same reasons. I also on a sabbatical year brought my own. We we brought our kids to Mexico to live for a year has had a tremendous impact throughout their lives. So this is something around which I really do connect in a very personal way to what you're saying. The other thing is that I have been speaking for many many years with people about what the U.S. U.S. relations with Latin America going back for our entire histories. And it's a sordid picture on the whole and life in the 1980s in El Salvador was absolutely hellish. And for you to have experienced what you did in going down there and you just explained it so well it really does speak to just like oh my god talk about resilience right of the human spirit and the fact that people would come together rather than fight over resources you know it's the it's that come you know the communitarian approach to life instead of the you know I'm gonna take mine. And we can never get tired of hearing stories that reinforce that idea nor can we ever turn our backs I hope on people who demonstrate that they're capable of doing that. So you know I just want to say I appreciate and I admire the work that you guys are doing and I thank you for it both personally and as a resident here in Arlington it really is it's a great thing. So let's talk about it a little bit more let's talk about I mean people may have heard for in different ways about the existence of this program but I bet most folks living in Arlington even for a long time don't really know okay so what does that mean. So let's just start with what does a sister city what are the elements that go into a relationship which is a sister city relationship. Well this particular relationship was established in 1988 which is the same year that refugees returned from camps in Honduras where they had been sheltering and went back to El Salvador with the war continuing and resettled Teo Sente. So at that time there were people in Arlington who wanted to partner and provide moral support and material support and other kinds of assistance. So during those first few years that was a lot of what it was about and so the sister city efforts included trips that folks from Arlington made to Teo Sente bringing school supplies and medicine and then also when someone from the village was captured and detained to call members of Congress and lobby on their behalf things like that but since the peace was signed in 1992 and things changed the sister city relationship has evolved and it's become much more about education cultural exchange but it's always centered around this idea of accompaniment so we're very clear that it's not a charity and I think that was one of the things that really drew me to the sister city work and kept me is this idea of accompaniment that we are we are there together as equals and we really learn and gain as much from them as as we give back and there are some specific activities that we do do you want to talk about those regarding the schools or the schools and crafts and scholarships. So to piggyback on what Beth said I think also what's really important is that it is a mutual you know solidarity that we both respect each other's communities and what it is that each each community knows what they need right it is not for us to tell them what they need or them to tell us so it's been one of the wonderful things is that and and made it fit so nicely with Arlington is that the education is one of the priorities of in the village and so we raise money we raise money through donations we raise money through selling crafts that are made in the village so the women there's a sewing cooperative and the women sew the crafts we bring them back in suitcases whenever people travel. I think you have an example right that's definitely show people because that is awesome. Yeah you can you can be the very beautiful. They really are beautiful. They're beautiful, indestructible, you can machine wash them. They last forever. So the the material is hand-woven by women sewing cooperative in Guatemala and then the women in Teosinte we ask them to make certain products they make them we get them here and then we sell them in house in house parties so if anybody out there wants to host a house party and get in touch with us but that's really how we do it we wouldn't and the let's see we send a hundred percent of what we make back to the village and they can do whatever they want with it what they have chosen to do with it historically is use it for education so high school is not free and clearly college is not free it's mostly subsistence farmers who do not have extra money to send their kids to school so with this money we are able to provide scholarships that unfortunately don't pay everything they really are a job in the bucket but they do allow sometimes some families to be able to send their their children to high school which is outside the village or to go to college. So that's one of the things we do the other focus is as Beth mentioned on our curriculum we've been really lucky to partner with with our Arlington Public Schools through their history department we piloted a program at Bracket which Beth was was part of the initiative the initial pilot in Bracket in the fourth grade we spent many years teaching the fourth graders about Tiosinte now we're in the second grade but we also have touch points with the kids all through through high school through the Spanish or the world language department so the Spanish language teachers in the school system have been really generous with their time and sometimes it's the Spanish Club that we come and talk to we go into the classrooms we bring the speakers like Lorena and Zulma I believe right before they spoke to you they spoke into about 400 high school students so. And I just want to throw in that you know in that conversation they both were clearly moved and mighty impressed by just how much knowledge those students that they were in contact with already had about where they came from and you know what the conditions were like and what the history was like etc so clearly your work is having an effect and I was also I am a little surprised now that I think back on it to hear how surprised Lorena was to find that out because she must have known this is this is what you guys have been up to among other things. Yeah she did know but but she doesn't you know she's in charge of C-space as a unit so she's right you know so she does not really in wasn't a direct yeah of course yeah she's in charge of an organization called Cripes which is the Salvadoran counterpart to U.S. El Salvador sister cities that we are a chapter of so and I think just experiencing it firsthand is something different and I think one of my favorite things and this probably true for you is when we have a booth at town day or something like that and a high school student comes up to us and says oh I learned about that in second grade or fourth grade and we will get inquiries occasionally from students who want to do internships with us and they'll tell us you know I never forgot when we took that imaginary trip to Teosinte in my classroom where we had papuces we ate you brought the food we wrote letters they they remembered yeah yeah I mean I can't but help I can't help but mention the fact that you and I have a something that we we we here at ACMI tried to help yes with some of what you were just talking about just the that way of communicating what it was like to be here or there and using the power of video as well and in the end we weren't able to completely successfully do that but it was it was another example of the efforts that you're that you're describing yeah and Arlington Educational Fund had given that pilot grant to get this all started and so many teachers worked hard on it and at one point a group of teachers spent a week in Teosinte and so many parents have been involved so it's really been many hands involved and making it work I think it's a reflection right of the of the Arlington community of the teachers that they understood that this was something valuable and unique and they really embraced it and and elevated it and put their time into it and we never could you know the board the eight of us six of us you know it's varied at times we never could have done it without the warm embrace of the Arlington community the parents every year we would have a group of eight to ten volunteers at every elementary school who are there to put up bulletin boards who are there to like do the fiesta it's like the enrichment and to try to make it as the load as light as possible for the teachers so that they but to add add to the to the curriculum so it's been great yeah and I just want to I want to kind of dig down a little deeper and something that you were just saying Elizabeth which is the priority on the Teosinte side of education because I was struck in the images that I remember seeing from the time that we were talking about in terms of our cooperative efforts but even the images that are on your website now and that you've shared with us of the the schools the the classroom at the or the the school itself which has three different classrooms and we're talking about a community of 300 right I mean that's a that's as I believe you're the video that a company says that's smaller than your school right talking talking to the Arlington community and and but the but the the school building itself it's very order it's it looks like it's very well maintained like they're like everybody in that community is making some kind of effort to make sure that place functions as best it can. Well there's something really special about the school and that's the teachers so when they came back the community was destroyed and they they set to to building houses and you know picking the bombs out of the out of the fields and starting to cultivate again but they also they immediately focused on school and education and the three teachers who still are the teachers I love the story I love the story right they were 13 or 14 when they came back from the refugee camp in in Honduras and they were the ones who could read and write and so at the age of 13 they became the teachers and not only did they teach but they also sheltered the kids because the war was still going on and soldiers were still harassing the village so you know I I can't imagine a 13 year old not only teaching but also sort of emotionally supporting students while there's a war going on and they are still the teachers have gotten gone back and gotten their licenses but I I love that story and I think one other thing that's reflective of how much education is valued is that the the generation that resettled had about a third or fourth grade education you know that's because that's what life was also you know education wasn't prioritized they needed to go out and work in the fields and then the war came so their children in one generation are graduating from high school in college and becoming professionals and I just think that speaks to the incredible dedication that they have to an understanding like of education is the key to the future absolutely yeah no I I think that that that is true and I just want to reiterate what you mentioned earlier which is that the school the all of the schooling that you can get within the town of Teosin De ends at a particular age which is much earlier than any of us have the expectation that our children or we will be done with school right and so then they have to figure out how to go on from there and yet as you have just cited high school graduates and college graduates if they don't abound they are getting more and more plentiful there that is remarkable it is and it's good for individuals and families but it's good for the community and the whole country and that's how people view it is this is also a way that young people who grew up in a very democratic community and that's that's what I have to emphasize about a place like Teosin De it is so small d democratic you know that its decisions are made by an elected town council they're very dedicated to making sure there's representation from women as well as men from people of different ages young people older people and really there's a sense of you know we're in it together and so every time a young person is able to graduate high school is able to graduate college that's someone who is shaping a better El Salvador who carries with them this legacy of growing up in a community like that and an example of somebody like that is Zulma who grew up in Sinquera which is another similar community to Teosin De and so she brings with her the richness of that experience to really demonstrate that it's possible for people to work together like that yeah and for those who tune into the conversation that will follow between Zulma and Lorena and myself they will see that Zulma is mighty impressive person considering how much translating she was doing while also responding to my questions it was it was you know she really is a great example of what you're what it is that you're talking about you know we have very little time left I knew this was going to happen right I mean it's going to be an abrupt ending at some point and I'm sorry about that because I'd love the conversation to continue let me ask you though one thing that we touched on in my conversation with Zulma and Lorena was the situation in El Salvador right now and yet they needed to be somewhat circumspect in what they had to say because for obvious reasons I think they are returned they are now back in El Salvador I imagine and and they have to you know be concerned you so we don't have to we can speak more frankly here what do you guys understand about what's going on in El Salvador now as you said the war ended in 92 the war ended in 92 however you know it's a my understanding pretty grim situation in that country at the moment so what what can you tell us absolutely so when the war ended there was a whole generation that grew up without education carrying guns there was the ongoing legacy of colonialism and abject poverty and disenfranchisement for most of the population so these are things that don't just go away and they're developed a very strong infrastructure of gangs and the the main gangs actually started in Los Angeles where Salvadoran Salvadorans who came to the US were jailed and had to fend for themselves and there were other gangs and then they were deported and brought the gangs back to what was a very fertile environment for gangs to flourish so what has happened over time is the population naturally wants the threat of the gangs to be addressed and many administrations there have dealt with this with what they call the mano duro in the hard hand the current administration run by president Bukele is very intent on presenting this show of force and now El Salvador has become a site of mass incarceration actually surpassing the United States as having more people incarcerated per capita than anywhere they just since March have incarcerated 55,000 people yes I would in a country the size of Massachusetts for perspective yeah so maybe you can confirm I said something in my in my conversation with with Zulman and Lorena that I had read recently which is part of Bukele part part of president Bukele's draconian for sure approach to to dealing with this is that at this point if you are in an assembly of assembly of three people you are now vulnerable to being arrested for that alone yes so there's no due process people can be held for 15 days without charges clearly people are being profiled so based on their age based on the community they live in how they look they're being caught up in these sweeps of people and often their relatives can't even find them so a lot of people have died in prisons there are certainly Salvadorans who like how Bukele's handling things you know so this is like many political leaders we see around the world right now where there's kind of a populist you could say dictatorship or certainly authoritarian regime that has a lot of people supported and other people are suffering mightily human rights organizations are very very concerned about what's happening in El Salvador Elizabeth yeah I think that knowing the past knowing the history knowing how much in the people in Teosinte and all over El Salvador have sacrificed for the democracy for the you know and to see it slipping away from them and they see it they know they've seen the other side right I think that's it's very upsetting I mean I guess that's understatement but I think it's important that we United States use the privilege that we have of being able to to question authority the question to talk about it that we use that and we contact our congressmen and women and we use our voice to help let people know what's happening down there and and stand against it as we did back during the civil war as the original people who started the Arlington Teosinte sister city project did back in the 80s use their voice to and the privilege that we have to to lift lift them up yeah and I have to note the sad irony and as you were explaining it Beth the sad irony and the fact that you know with the gangs being deported returned back to El Salvador as this springboard for the current situation again it's another example of that sorry history of American roots for Latin American misery and you know it is it's not the way I want to end this conversation the note on which I want to end the conversation and I think you know we won't we'll talk for another minute or two but that needs to be said I think again that we we we bury collective responsibility for an awful lot of what is going on there and to turn our heads or backs to that just feels it is wrong yeah it is wrong yes but partly because I don't want to end on that note but also partly because I want to you know also ask you what was your experience of having Zulman Lorena here how does that fit in to the sister cities program in general I look forward to the the tour that comes through every every two years okay so it's a regular yeah for me it is a moment to reconnect it to to reground myself with the the work because as you mentioned when you started we're very busy people and it's easy to sort of lose lose that connection but when they come it grounds me it inspires me to see them fighting so hard and putting really their lives at risk every day and then I get to reconnect with the students here and the teachers and so for me it's this really wonderful experience kind of reinvigorating yeah absolutely yeah yeah I agree completely and I'll just add that I think it's really about listening and we have so much to learn from Zulman Lorena and their colleagues on every level certainly they're able to give us a picture of what's happening in El Salvador that we can't get from reading the news and they also are able to model for us what it's like to to keep their spirit alive keep their spirit strong and as you were saying given the legacy given the losses it's it could feel very crushing for me it gives me a lot of perspective because I find myself you know dispirited about how divided our country is some of the things we're facing here and it's just a real kind of renewal of perspective to talk with them and see that they haven't missed a beat they're saying okay this is what we're dealing with now how shall we deal with it so I learn a lot from them yeah all right so last thing I sincerely hope that like like for myself a number of our audience members have listened to this conversation and are inspired themselves to join the work that you guys are engaged in to support that work in some way so clearly they can buy one of these beautiful pieces here that's that's an easy that's an easy ask but just let us know how do people get involved if they are interested fantastic well we have a website which is arlington teosentate.org so you'll be able to learn a little more about our history things we didn't get to talk to you about and also there are right there different ways that you can support us there's a way to sign up for our e-newsletter which comes out very infrequently so we will not spam be spam at anybody we don't have time but that's also how you're going to learn about craft sales you'll learn about these kinds of tours every year we do a community education event around immigration so that's really how you're going to stay in touch with us and get the most updated information I think we have an email it's arlington teosentategmail.com these are our flyers they're usually at robins I haven't been recently to see if they're there but i'll make sure that they are is it let me just ask is it arlington dash teosentate just in case people are or is it just plain it would just be no dash okay just all one word yeah um yeah and people are interested to just reach out to us and we'll talk to you about what what sparks that interest and we'll find a way for you to contribute and be involved yeah we don't want to sort of hedge people into what we need we want to figure out what inspires people what is their connection to this kind of work and and make that something that we can build on wonderful well I really I thank you at the beginning I thank you even more after after the chat really because it's super important work that you're doing but also great education you've just given our audience and me thank you so much for that thank you so much appreciate it very much so this conversation also with Beth Soltzberg and with Elizabeth Dre is a part of a companion piece or part of a or is followed I should say by the companion piece to it that we've alluded to a number of times today my conversation again with Lorena and with Zulma from El Salvador which follows and so we're going to take a short break and you can come back and hear that conversation this is Talk of the Town I'm James Milan thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you next time hello everyone I'm James Milan welcome to a talk of the town like you have never seen or heard before we are lucky today to be joined by a couple of guests who I will introduce in just a second they are two women from El Salvador who are here as part of the sister cities program that Arlington is part of with a city a small city in El Salvador called Teo Sinte you may have heard of it if not then that's part of what we're here for today to explain both the sister cities program and especially to get the insights of our two guests into a culture a region that we are woefully unfamiliar with here in the United States so just get a kind of glimpse behind the the scene or behind the curtain into current events in El Salvador touch on some historical events too I'm sure but basically have a conversation taking advantage of the visit of our two guests so seated right next to me is Zulma Torbar so Zulma welcome thank you and right next to her is Lorena Araujo and Zulma and Lorena as I said each hold different positions that are related to the sister cities program and they are visiting Cambridge which is also part of the sister cities program as well as Arlington in a I have to say a rather whirlwind tour of the eastern United States which we'll hear about in a second so primero quiero decir muchas gracias de estar aquí a los dos gracias por invitarnos muchas gracias oh the other thing I should mention we're going to be speaking sometimes in Spanish Zulma is going to be carrying a large part of the weight because Lorena does not speak that much English and so she will be expressing herself in Spanish Zulma will be doing much of the translating and I also speak Spanish so I will be jumping in where I can be helpful so bear with us because it will be well worth the conversation even if it's an unusual kind of back and forth compared to what we usually have on talk of the town so empezando entonces con la primera pregunta first question for our guests is just what is your how has your trip been so far where is this your first time your fifth time here in this area and what are your impressions so if you want to explain to Lorena what I asked visit so this is my third visit here and it has been a while since I haven't been here but once again I'm here and in every visit I learned a lot during this time I've been in meetings with students and teachers and I am learning as always great and how about for you how has it been and are you a veteran of these tours of the United States well I think this is my third yeah I think this is my third time here and same I've been learning a lot and it's always a great pleasure to learn and share and exchange the culture and learnings of both realities here in Arlington in the US and also in the reality of my communities or our our country in El Salvador so it is great it has been a great experience we have been here for two days sharing and learning a lot so thanks for having us absolutely so I just want to ask about your experience in the schools because I know that that's where you're spending a good amount of your time so entonces en las escuelas y las visitas a las escuelas cuales han sido otra vez sus impresiones de los estudiantes de aquí en las clases de español que ustedes han visitado so I'm asking just about their visits to Spanish Spanish classes in Cambridge and in Arlington bueno es impresionante porque tienen clases de español eso es la primera cosa que a mí me gusta y me impresiona de que a ellos le guste también y el que tienen maestras que están bien dispuestas a enseñarles unos están más adelantados digamos y otros están iniciando pero tienen el interés y siempre eso es muy importante que sean bilingües por lo menos para mí yeah I am very impressed uh because first of all they are learning Spanish and uh they they have classes in Spanish that are they like it and they there are teachers that are very committed to to teach that and motivate them to to do that um yeah and I think that that is very important to be a bilingual for me it is very important yes I'm wondering es una sorpresa que hablan espanol aqui o que toman que los estudiantes toman clases de español aquí is that is is it surprising to hear that there are Spanish that Spanish is being taught in schools here para mí sí es una sorpresa porque he he estado en algo otros en algo otros lugares a donde algún siendo hijo de salvadoreño no hablan español y eso para nosotros sí es tremendo porque una base de comunicación en la lengua propia pues es es más fácil entonces sí me ha sorprendido yeah I am surprised because I've been in other places where I have met some children of Salvadorans that they don't speak Spanish so I think this is very important for the people to learn that language yes in in the United States as you're probably aware there's always a certain amount of tension between a similar what we call assimilation right learn for for the children of Salvadoran parents to learn English and speak English is very there's a very strong pressure here for that to happen and at the same time the parents and the grandparents and visitors from the native country would want the children to continue to speak in that language and so that's always kind of a push and a pull here so well podemos explicar que estamos hablando de esa tensión que existe aquí en en Estados Unidos entre la assimilation lo que dice oh necesitas aprender inglés lo más rápido posible y usar inglés y la idea de que se necesita mantener algo de la cultura y la ley el idioma es tan importante para eso your own impressions of of your visits to the classrooms yeah so as I said I I always enjoyed being with the students and the teachers and doing this type of exchanges and this morning and yesterday we have been sharing with the students from different levels and they are very well informed about what's going on in other places and also about the history of our country so I really like that and also I really appreciate the work that teachers have done in that in that matter so I yeah I'm happy and I am very like I don't know satisfied I had to have spent time with them and yeah to learn what they know about El Salvador and share our experiences in rural communities well I have to tell you that as a former Spanish teacher myself for many many years I'm very pleased to hear that that is your impression so I want to change subject a little bit and just ask you about the sister cities program from the Salvadoran perspective so I know that you are not yourself a resident of Teosinte or that's not that your your own role is much larger and covers all of the programs but just tell us from the Salvadoran perspective what is the importance of the sister cities program and what are your goals what are the goals yeah that's a very good question and even though I am not a resident of Teosinte but I do come from a community that has a sister city here in United States which is part of this network I come from this town that is sister with the city of Chicago and I was a scholarship recipient of that program so I can I can tell how important this type of relationship sister in relationship are for our communities especially because this relationship started back in the late 80s when we really need to have the solidarity support from international community to go back to our places of origins because people were displaced because of repression that we're experiencing from the armed forces so this relationship makes a huge impact in the living of our communities not only because of for the development of our communities but also because of that accompaniment of the solidarity that we experience and this type of cultural exchanges and the realities and I think something very important to point out is the work that US El Salvador sister cities does through the different chapters that we have doing advocacy work for human rights defense in both countries in El Salvador in our small communities and here in the cities where we have our sister in relationships I'm wondering if we if we if you want to ask Lorena if she has thoughts about this too so it connects us in solidarity and we also share the same moral values and even though we are far away geographically but we are together we do have that accompaniment yeah so that that idea of connection la conexión sobre distancia over distance is clearly a big part of this program but also an important part of our humanity la humanidad right depende de esa conexión right depends on that kind of connection so let me ask you because again this is an opportunity es una oportunidad para nosotros que ustedes estén aquí right that you're here so tell us a little bit about what we don't know about El Salvador like how is life there at the moment how has your how have your lives been up till this time and just give us a some more of a glimpse una una pequeña vista de cómo es la vida y cómo ha sido la han sido las vidas suyas bien día bueno hoy en día nosotros podemos decir que luego de transitar por un por un camino que nos ha llevado a ir buscando espacios y a trabajar en comunidad el arte de todo esto ha sido la organización el promover los derechos de las los derechos humanos conocer de los derechos y saber que tenemos derechos y tenemos obligaciones también y y esto permite que también el conocimiento sea oportuno para que promovamos una cultura de paz una cultura de diálogo un trabajo en comunidad que es así como como hacer un un esfuerzo mutuo de intercambios también so going through a path in which we have been working or doing community organizing we know that that has built what we have in in our communities looking for human rights in our communities and also defending human rights we know that we have rights but also we have obligations so it is important for us to raise awareness about the human rights for our community and also raise awareness on a culture of peace to create a culture of dialogue and to build community um so thank you very much for you're doing a great job by the way very difficult muy difícil lo que ella está haciendo vera very good but i'm also wondering whether you have to something you can add as well from your own perspective yeah um as as a member of us as our sister cities i can tell that and going through that process and sharing the history to the new generations it has been quite a challenge nowadays because uh because of different reasons um many of our community leaders have died or others have migrated to other places and that's why um or young people have migrated from their own communities because they are looking for better conditions for themselves and for their families so i think um that it is a challenge for us right now to keep doing that work to keep doing community organizing especially when we have the like right now in El Salvador we have a state of exception or a state of emergency in which most of the target people is young people so it is very hard for us to keep doing the work of community organizing having young people involved in different activities in the community when they are scared of going to a meeting for example in a community and they are scared of being or encounter um or running to a police officer for example and they can be accused of being a gang member when they are not um so that's a challenge for us as a community organizers and community leaders yeah i would certainly think so i was reading recently about the situation in El Salvador and i know part of that state of exception means i think that a police officer could arrest somebody simply for being one of three people who are gathered because any more than two people together in one place you you are subject to being arrested yeah and and that also depends on which part of the of El Salvador you are for example if you are in a poor neighborhood of course you will be targeted as a gang person um and but that is not happening in you know in the nice right in the wealthier areas yes um see so um how in in in El Salvador so i'm asking about uh what effect the pandemic has had uh in El Salvador generally or on your work specifically carillas medicamento buscar entre nosotros crear una red que permitiera llevar alimentos por ejemplo para sostenerse mientras estaban en esa situación and i know that Zulma is going to translate very well again but i will just say that Lorena was describing how much stress the pandemic put on a social service organizations just like theirs to provide the services and the and the and the the masks and uh and everything else that was needed to ensure that people who had to stay where they were would still get food etc i probably missed something though no you're doing great yeah i thought i would you know spare you at least one but yes i mean can you speak as well to how it affected your work yeah um um yeah like i was saying the the the fact of sharing historic memory to the new generations we have lost many leaders in our communities now we don't have that experience or that voice to share to be shared many of them um we lost them during the pandemic in the same way here in in uh the different chapters that we have in united states we have lost great people and um we are very sorry and we uh we have to look for new you know to to for new ways i had to work with with the people and during the pandemic we didn't know as Lorena was saying we didn't know what to do so we have to start thinking again how we were going to deal with that and how we were going to keep our accompaniment with the people and uh everyone was scared at that time to go out or to keep doing the work but we but we were able to to go and provide the support to the communities yeah well i want to um thank you both on behalf of a lot of the people that you served i'm sure because that was heroic work that you did we had heroes here as well working again to help the rest of us stay safe have what we need etc such a such a crazy time so here in the United States at the moment we are in a strange moment with the pandemic because it has not ended but we are behaving as if as if it is already out okay there is no so i'm just describing this peculiar moment here in the united states at at this time where we are not done with the pandemic and yet we are desperately needing and wanting to re-establish the normalcy of the lives that we had before that and how much we want that and so i'm wondering i want to ask you what's the what is the attitude about covid in uh in el salvador right now what is the attitude in front of covid covid in el salvador al momento carilla y tratamos de cuidar y de dar indicaciones que la gente siempre debe de tener el alcohol él tiene siempre tiene que tener las condiciones cuidarse para protegerse y evitar que la pandemia siga expandiéndose so the attitude of the people is that well people uh is scared about or for covid and the ministry of health said that now is optional is up to the people if they want to wear face masks but we keep telling people that we have to keep doing all the the sanitizing process wearing face masks and using the or washing our hands as much as possible so you both do a lot of work to support your communities and you're also can see a lot of the generosity and the interest that people here in your sister communities have i hope that that fills you with hope um but i also know that your work is hard um so i'm just wondering how optimistic do you feel or how do you feel about the next little while the next year the next five years the next 10 years uh as you consider those so do you want to uh translate for well quisiera saber que tan optimistas están uh para los siguientes para el futuro para los siguientes años si si pero con con la idea de que ustedes están trabajando mucho y pueden ver lo feo lo lo difícil y todo eso entonces quiero saber si si están optimistas o o no y que piensan que cómo piensan del del futuro del del futuro de los próximos años más o menos en honor a la verdad tenemos nosotros convicción porque hemos luchado toda la vida verdad este en mi caso desde los 16 años he venido trabajando en la organización comunitaria y y si nos da temor que la democracia por la que tanto hemos trabajado pueda ser interrumpida verdad y que los derechos humanos tengan retroceso que es como lo que más habíamos logrado avanzar en derechos humanos entonces no deja de haber cierto cierto temor sin embargo creemos que podemos seguir buscando el que la cultura de paz sea un sea el arte para seguir verdad los diálogos no pueden cerrarse deben de ser los que nos permitan seguir avanzando y seguir caminando en esa cultura de paz so to honor the truth i can tell that i i feel um positive because we have been fighting for many years in my case i've been fighting since i was 16 years old and we accomplished a lot and even though right now we are scared or afraid that democracy can have or can be interrupted because we have gone backwards in terms of human rights but we are positive that we are going to keep fighting and creating a culture of peace and having dialogues in order to to create or build community and move forward well did you want to add anything or no i think lorena said what i had in mind like several other people had suffered a lot and we i think we went through very very hard processes during the the civil war and even even before and i think people's power no one can stop that well i want to say that it has been an honor truly as well as a pleasure to talk with you and to get your insights into into the work that you do into the into your country which is beautiful and always vulnerable like all of us we have to be strong and vigilant and i know that you guys are right there in the front lines doing that work so i wish you the best of luck with that thank you very much i want to say that it is very good luck with the efforts that are that and for you since the age of 16 years a lot of time and still with strength truth and with hope with hope well very thank you so much for to both of you for being here thanks for having us for inviting us yeah and for having this very peculiar but lovely conversation thank you thanks for this opportunity absolutely um so i have been joined by lorena uh rauho and by zulma tovar um from uh our dear sister country of el salvador uh for this very special edition of talk of the town i'm james malan we really appreciate their time and yours as well thanks for joining us we'll see you next time