 Welcome to American Issues Take One. I'm Tim Apachele, your host. And today's title is for the show, Representative Dean Phillips wants Biden's job. Who's Dean Phillips? Well, Dean Phillips is a third term representative from the House of Representatives and he's from Minnesota, excuse me. And he has thrown his hat in the ring to challenge President Joe Biden for the next presidency of the United States. Why is he doing it? Well, we're going to discuss that and many other things here. And with me today is my co-host, Jay Fidel. Good morning, Jay. Good morning, Tim. Jay, do you know who Dean Phillips is? Not until about a week ago. But there was a long article, I want to say the Washington Post, but it could have been the New York Times, a long article sort of introducing him. And he's a pretty appealing guy. I have to tell you, he's Jewish. And in these days, when we have national anti-Semitism, that could be a problem in any event. But he's a good guy. He's got his head screwed on right. He's got the right ideas about the government, how to handle things. He's rational and good-natured. And it's a shame that he has no chance whatsoever. Well, yeah, let's discuss the details. He has voted with Joe Biden, I think 100% of all Joe Biden initiatives. Yet here he is to challenge him for the role of presidency in 2024. To what degree? Well, let's see what he said. He said, basically, he thinks that Joe Biden's too old and that's a problem because his popularity numbers his popularity numbers are low. And most Democrats think that Joe Biden should not run for a second term in 2024. So that's his motivation to put his hat in the ring. He also said, or he's implied, he hasn't said it explicitly, that he wants to encourage other candidates to run to secure the nomination. He, I think he mentioned that into the publication, The Hill. Your thoughts about his motivation and we'll talk about the impacts here in a second, but your thoughts about his motivation. Well, I think it's thoughtful. I mean, it's not off the wall. And he believes that you need a younger person to run on the Democratic ticket and younger, more vital, what have you. You and I have talked about this for months, even years. And so he's filling in the way that I want to call it the age and fragility gap or trying to, but I don't think it means anything really. As long as Biden is healthy enough to perform, he's going to win the Democratic nomination and Phillips is spitting in the wind here. I wrote to one of my political gurus, I said, do you think that Phillips has a chance? And the answer was nope and OPE full stop, that's simple. And that's the problem, and maybe he's thinking and I think that probably Newsom is thinking the same thought is that he wants to be there on the stage, just in case Biden should have a medical problem or what have you or be unable to continue. He wants to be there so the Democrats are not left out. The problem is that he could draw off votes. Well, actually no, that's how he thought at first he could draw, he's going to lose the primary and that'll be that. And the people who might vote for him would then go and vote for Biden, I think. And so it doesn't make any difference in the general election that he's trying it. Maybe he's just trying to excite things. Maybe he's trying to show that there's somebody else. But at the end of the day, the Democratic Party's going to vote for Biden. Well, typically, especially I'm remembering candidates opposing Ronald Reagan, where they bludgeoned the existing president and that bludgeoning during the primaries actually hurt the president during the general election. Excellent point. Because what is the contention between Phillips and Biden? It means that somebody has to attack the other guy and Phillips is going to attack Biden and that attack could soften votes that might otherwise go to Biden in the general election. Well, I think the attack comes in the form of Biden's, again, Biden's popularity and poll numbers and certainly his age and his existing health. And so that could, yeah, I agree, that could really damage Biden further in the 2024. But, you know, Donald Trump has no spring chicken either. And he's had his major gaffes of recent when he's on the campaign trail. And we'll talk about some of those later. But I wanted to point out that he has retained a serious contender as far as his political advisor. And that's Steve Schmidt. You may remember Steve Schmidt. He was the campaign manager for John McCain. And he was also campaign manager for George Bush. And, you know, and he's noted for his involvement with the Lincoln Project and his many interviews coming out against Donald Trump and the misogynists of Donald Trump. So no lightweight that has taken on this role to be as campaign manager and advisor. Your thoughts about where that would stand with this candidate, Mr. Phillips? I think it's likely to help because Schmidt is a very smart guy, very articulate guy. He brings two pieces of baggage with him, though, that have to be included in the calculus. Number one is that he's the guy that found Sarah Palin for the vice presidential candidate under McCain. And that was a horrendous mistake, horrendous. McCain could have had a much better chance without Palin. She was an idiot, I'm sorry. The other baggage that he has is that the Lincoln Project, he was a founder of the Lincoln Project and he was a great spokesman for the message of the Lincoln Project, the sort of Republican turned Democrat kind of message that he did some brutal attacks against Trump. But they got into trouble. Something went wrong in the Lincoln Project. They had internet and fights about something, I don't know what it was. And he quit or was thrown out. And that was the end of him and his big connection with the Lincoln Project, which I admired at the time. It's not like a Liz Cheney group, the former Republicans. But in terms of his smarts and his experience, he's a great pick for Phillips. You know, of recent, he's gotten in trouble with some heavy hitters in the Democratic Party, specifically Representative Jim Clyburn. What I understand is that Dean Phillips has decided to go to New Hampshire for that primary, which by the way, doesn't give you any delegates towards your nomination for the candidate. But he decided to go there versus South Carolina. And so the bottom line is when you have a heavy hitter like Jim Clyburn, who by the way was the one that was able to turn Joe Biden's disastrous campaign around just before Super Tuesday in 2020 or 2019, excuse me. He was the kingmaker. And I don't know if his name still represents him being a kingmaker or not. But so early in his campaign for candidacy, when you have a heavy hitter like Jim Clyburn come out against you, what do you think that says? I think he would have come out against them anyway. And Clyburn likes Joe Biden. He made Joe Biden, as you say, he is a kingmaker. And if it wasn't the choice of states, it would be for the primary or the opening of the election, whatever. It's something else. You're right though, Clyburn is a very powerful man. And he's still at the top of his game. When he gets up there on national TV and gives you a message, you listen. He is in many ways the heart of the Democratic Party right now. Mainly because he made Joe Biden. But I think- He's also as a co-chair for reelection. Well, that's powerful. Yeah. I think there'll be others too that will migrate away from Phillips and migrate to Biden and stand up for Biden on this. So Phillips doesn't really have a chance when you're talking about the old timers. And the old timers are in the Democratic Party they dictate what happens. Well, here's a case where there could be some fracturing here because both Jim Clyburn and Bernie Thompson, Democrat from Mississippi said that this was disrespectful for the voters of color. That South Carolina should be the first place for him to address his candidacy. In fact, in the Hill, Thompson said that any serious Democrat would understand that the black voter is the backbone of the Democratic Party. So that's a pretty fairly serious charge levied against Phillips. I don't know if it's fair or not. But do you think, do you see this as a factual fracturing of the Democratic Party so early in the election cycle? I see it as a potshot against Phillips. No more, no less. They just want to marginalize him and they don't want him crowding Biden. Is that a fair statement for them to come out against him on that point? I don't think it's fair. No, I don't think it's fair. I think it's kind of stinky as a matter of fact. Yeah. That's a good point. So let's talk about the ramifications of if Phillips or he encouraged some other candidate like maybe Governor Newsom to throw their hat in the ring. Time is of the essence already for to get on a ballot in many of these states that deadline is coming close. I think in Nevada, that deadline's already passed. It was October 16th. So to what degree if it's Phillips' desire to get other candidates to throw their hat in the ring, to what degree will that be successful if we have a closing date from all these different states to get on the ballots? You know, I was thinking the same thing. You know, timing is so important in these things. And I would have thought at first, you know, that Phillips' timing was just about right. Here we are. It's a year away. Year away. It's time to throw your hat in the ring. And he did. I mean, you got to give him credit for his, what, courage anyway. He put himself on the line and changed his life and all that. Newsom hasn't done that. Newsom is just kind of trying to get into the orbit here, the Biden orbit. So that if Biden can't run, then my guess is Newsom would step up, you know, and run, and both of these guys don't have a chance unless something goes wrong, you know, with Biden. And right now Biden looks pretty good. At least he looks good to the regular Democrats because he's done a pretty good job and he keeps addressing national issues. Sometimes, you know, you wonder if he can get to first base without Congress. I mean, for example, he established a gun violence office but it has no authority. He established this week some kind of AI, you know, AI office, but it has no authority and no funding, I don't think. And so, you know, he understands the issues, he tries, but without Congress, he can't follow through on anything new anyway. The other thing is that he's exposed to very risky business overseas. If he loses, if Ukraine loses, and it would be largely because of Congress and Mike Johnson, for lack of funding, it's gonna be on Biden. Even if it's Congress that's withholding the funding. You know, he just didn't do it right. The same thing as Afghanistan. You can hear the argument already. The same thing Afghanistan, he gets into these situations and he can't pull it off, which is not really a valid criticism but it'll hurt him bad if he loses Ukraine. Likewise, if his moves in the Middle East don't work out and they may not, it's a really difficult situation politically, you know, geopolitically, just really difficult. And if he loses, if it all goes off the side, it's gonna be on him. And there are so many other hotspots in the world where it's gonna be on him. I mean, take China and the South China Sea and all that. Let's get worse by the day. And we don't pay all that much attention to it because we're fascinated with domestic politics and with Ukraine and with, you know, Israel and all that. But the fact is things are going south in the South China Sea. You could quote me on that, Tim. Things are going south in the South China Sea. So any one of these things could erupt in such a way that the American political establishment, the electorate would hold it against Biden and that will cost him. So it's not just a matter of being fragile and old. It's not just a matter of these guys waiting in the wings for a time when Joe Biden, you know, loses his moxie. No, it's Joe Biden could lose his popularity because of any number of external factors. Not necessarily his fault, but it could hurt him bad. What would you say to the Democrat who's right now, their knees are shaking because they're looking at polling numbers that show Donald Trump actually in the lead to win? What would you say to those Democrats that are going, what do we do now? Oh, hold the line. I mean, I don't really believe those polls. I'm sorry. When it comes down to it, you know, in what? A year, a little less than a year. Yeah. And people have to go and vote. I think assuming that Joe Biden doesn't make a mistake or get blamed for something and assuming he's still reasonably healthy, I think, you know, he'll be the next president. I also think that the Trump will continue in his insanity and you will see, you will see, you know, what the press is identifying, what his adversaries are identifying is that he's losing it mentally. He doesn't have good cognitive function. And I don't think that's a mistake or an exaggeration. I think it's true. And if it is true, it's going to continue. It's probably gonna get exacerbated somehow. It's not just, you know, the pressure of all these trials and all these things that Trump hates. I said, he's losing it. You know, his life just tells you that he's losing it. And then I think there'll be more of that before November next year. So at the end of the day, whatever the polls were saying now, and I don't believe them, I'm sorry, we've learned enough not to believe polls. And also, even if they're right, they change. And there's, you know, between now and next November, man, there'll be so many things that could and will change the polls. So I wouldn't worry about that. I think the likelihood is that if Biden doesn't slip somewhere, he will take that election. I think that Trump, Trump is doing a great job at ignoring and, you know, marginalizing all the trials against him and all the bad news that comes out against him. And his base continues to support him no matter what. He could shoot somebody in Fifth Avenue, it's true. But that's a small group of people, I think, relatively speaking, and most Americans, even Trumpers, you know, they're mostly rational, I think, at least on this kind of thing. And when you have to posit both of those candidates together, all things being equal next November, those polls aren't gonna apply. The likelihood is that the people are not gonna support a madman. Well, since you love polls so much, let me throw out a poll for you. This one came out Tuesday. NPR Marist National Poll released yesterday that, hey, if there was someone else out there that could detract numbers, it's not just Dean Phillips. We're also talking about Robert Kennedy Jr. But this poll actually shows that Kennedy Jr. would pull numbers away from Trump versus Biden. And I don't know if that's really been discussed out there a whole lot in the media. He seems to attract the more extreme conspiracy theorist type voter, certainly that would be on the Republican side of things. In fact, the numbers show that if there was an election, Biden would win the election by 44%. Trump would be 37%. And Kennedy, believe it or not, would get 16% of the vote and undecided 3%. Since you love polls so much, what do you think about this poll? Not much. Not much, okay. Really, I mean, it doesn't take a whole lot of reading to find out that Kennedy is a disgrace to the Kennedy family and legacy and John Kennedy and all the Kennedys who were popular. This Kennedy is out of his squash. He's not a Trump and he's not a Kennedy. What is he? Nothing. Well, 60%, now let's say you got half of that. 8% could certainly sway if there was detracting from Joe Biden, that would be certainly enough to push Donald Trump ahead again. Are you concerned about that? If not that, what about Joe Manchin and the no, now we don't know where Joe Manchin is in all this mess, but he's still considering putting his hat in the ring as the no-label candidate. Let me say that if Kennedy gets 8% I'll buy you a pizza. You don't do bets anymore because I've lost so many times, Jay. We stopped with the pizza bets. Well, let me only say too that Joe Manchin somehow has faded from popular awareness and for good reason. I think when you look and you analyze what he did or didn't do in his role as the cold king of where West Virginia, it was really stinky. It was awful what he did. And I think that even the people in West Virginia who presumably benefited by his votes or non-votes and his machinations in Congress are gonna realize that he was a nothing burger. And I don't think he's gonna run or if he does run I don't think he's getting any votes. Okay. That's the fight-out poll. Yeah, that's fine, back by pizzas. You know, let's look at something here. You had mentioned John McCain and his pick of Sarah Palin. I think and Steve Schmitz certainly would agree that was a major flaw on Steve Schmitz part and John McCain's to be in such a rush to find a VP running mate and they didn't do their background homework on Sarah Palin. And it was certainly a heavy weight on that ticket. And I personally feel that it was a contributory effect that why John McCain did so poorly in the election. If the emphasis is on Joe Biden and his frailty be it mental or physical, doesn't that emphasize or amplify his current VP running mate and current vice president Kamala Harris? Doesn't that put pressure on would-be voters that if anything goes wrong that it would be vice president Harris running the country? Oh, I totally agree. She doesn't have it. She doesn't have it in terms of skill or analysis or sensibilities. She doesn't have it in terms of popularity or a following. It's not a question of her extraction at all. She just doesn't have it. And maybe he hasn't let her out of the cage all that much either. And sometimes you have to let the vice president get out a little if you wanna count on that as a... I think she was out of the cage when it came to the border issues. She was definitely given free reign to handle that and it failed miserably. That was her first miserable failure as a vice president. That was her project. It's a, she's a real detriment to him because people, you know, first of all there is a racial aspect here. Do we, you know, can you guys see those guys in the south? They're not too interested in having a half black, half Indian president that does not turn them on. But the other thing is that she's a woman. And the other thing is that she hasn't really demonstrated a whole lot of skill. And it would be pretty scary if he died in office. And A, you know, he's not gonna, if he wins he's gonna stay there until he's 86 years old. Not saying that's old. You know, to some people that's young and vital but for him, I don't think he's gonna be young and vital at 86. And so, yes, there's a fair chance statistically, actuarially that, you know, she could exceed to the office as vice president and that is pretty scary. On the other hand, what do you do about it? Now, he, you know, he could have tried to trade her in. You know? No, that wouldn't work. Why do you say that? Oh, come on. I can hear Jim Clyburn right now. That doesn't mean you can't find somebody else who satisfied Jim Clyburn. I mean, you know, if Jim Clyburn were here with us today we could probably convince him it's not a good idea to have Kamala Harris run again. And that Biden should get, you know, somebody who can help him more. And that person does not have to be, you know, a wasp. That person could be, you know, somebody very diverse too. And you could probably convince Jim Clyburn if he was sitting with us here today that this other alternative is to make it better for Biden. But Biden doesn't want to do that, you know? He wants to be. Okay, let's address that. Yeah. Let's address that. I call it the Diane Feinstein syndrome. What is that? She wouldn't leave office. She was incapable of performing the duties of her job. And she died in office just recently. And, you know, I'm sorry to hear that. But, you know, at what point does a politician say, I'm not functioning well, but I'm gonna sit in this chair because I like the trappings of the office. And I think I'm doing something good for my constituents. But really? Are you really doing your constituents a favor by just hanging in there and not being effective? I totally agree. Hey, you know, with all respect, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, same thing and look what happened to that seat. Perfect. Okay, there you go. That's the other one. You know, I mean, with modern medicine, we can live longer, but that doesn't mean we're sentient when we get into those, you know, longer years. And I think that Joe Biden is an example of that. And it would be really terrible if he went Blanco, you know, in the second term. He needs to revitalize his ticket. And you know, you say, well, why, why didn't he do that? Well, he wants to go slow and steady. No disruptions. If it worked the first time, it'll work the second time. And he's not really addressing the concerns that are so obvious. I mean, if he's got these smart people around him in the White House and in his campaign, they would tell him, you know, she's not helping. And she can't help. Gotta find somebody else. Now the problem too is that if she's vice president, she has a certain amount of clout. So if he says to me, hey, Kamala, how about, how about switching out? She could say to him, hell no, I want this. I'm a vice president and I'm presumptively your, you know, your vice presidential candidate, get out of my way. And if you want to fool with me, I'll make stink. I'll hurt you. Well, let's, you know, let's go down that road. You just suggested, because that was my next question that is what to prevent Biden, who I obviously must recognize even by poll numbers or not poll numbers that she is an anchor a bit on that ticket. So what's to prevent Joe Biden from getting Clyburn and vice president Harrison room and say, hey, if it came from you that you were no longer interested in running vice president, what about Secretary of State or another prime piece of the administration? Is there anything that interests you? Vice president really doesn't do a whole lot in the, any administration. I think Dick Cheney is the exception to that. But what about a little, you know, backroom deal like that? Yeah, that's a great idea. You should send him a note immediately. Well, they, I don't need to. They already watched think tech away. To give me on the Supreme Court there'd be lots of things that would be better for her to realize and, you know, in terms of her own legacy she got out of that. She may or may not want to do that. And Clyburn, as you pointed out, may or may not want to do that. He may be wedded to her. But she, that would be a, that would be a great idea. And then Biden would have the freedom of get somebody younger, more vital, more interesting to the electorate, to his supporters. The problem is, you know, they think about it that the president, you know, he can only advocate for this for somebody else or for that matter for Kamala Harris. But at the end of the day, it's the party. It's Clyburn and his friends and people who, you know are running a democratic party and have conventions and the like, who will determine who the vice presidential candidate is. And if there's a disagreement about that it's very destructive to Biden and the party. You don't know until you try, right? Maybe you should. He got three months to get some folks in the room and say, how can we best hammer out a deal on this? But again, they're not watching me. They're not watching this show and that's how it goes. A stronger personality might try this, just as you say, it wouldn't hurt. But he's not a stronger personality. And he's, you know, we've talked about, you know his, what do you want to say, his lack of balls on so many things and this would be one of them. Yeah. Well, all I know is that it's best to avoid the McCain syndrome and like I said, I think John McCain would have been the president had he had a much, much better by VP pick. But that's left to history and- It's ironic because he died anyway. He would have died whoever, whatever office he was holding, whatever vice president he had, he died. And you could tell there was something wrong. His face was all blown up, remember that? Right, right. I still a great American hero as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, no, I- I do not understand why the Trumpers tolerate Trump's insults to him and to what's his name, Millie. And to, you know, the military in general and the wives of the people, you know, killed in action. I do not understand why. And that's a huge voting block. But he nevertheless insults them at every opportunity. Not going to the graves in Normandy, really? It's wrong with him. Not just going to graze the condom suckers and losers. Yeah, and of course, this is the guy who was the draft dodger. He was the draft dodger with that ridiculous spur. Was it bone spur or his heel? That was nonsense. His father got him out of the draft and now he has the hoodspot to dump on the military. Yeah, true. You're not going to believe this, Jay, but you've run out of time. I don't believe it. I don't believe the bulls won't. That's why I had to bring it up. Yeah. Do you have any last thoughts on our new candidate here to challenge Joe Biden, Mr. Phillips, Representative Phillips? Sorry, he's only a contingency. He's not a real candidate. And the chances of him head to head with Biden are some really tiny minuscule zero right now. If Biden is weak or runs into trouble on some geopolitical issue or what have you, then maybe he emerges. So he should stay in there. And Handsome Newsome, he should stay in there too. We need fresh blood just in case. The other thing I want to say is that all of this is a tempest and a teapot because we have a non-functioning Congress. We have till the election and hopefully in the election it'll change the Democrat. But the selection of Mike Johnson as the speaker of the House is really a disaster. He's a tremper. He voted against the ballots on June, January 6. He's on the wrong side of every single issue that we can think of. I accept Israel. But that's a religious thing. He's guided by his religion and the evangelical thing. It's not really a good thing or a good motivation, honestly, in terms of assigning priorities to geopolitical issues. And he's against helping Ukraine. I mean, he's on the wrong side of pretty much everything. And wait till you see what happens under his quote leadership end quote now. So it's a year we have till even the prospect of a turnover in the House. Johnson is Trump and he's going to wreck things. The two of them going to work together. And Trump strong enough to get him elected is really remarkable. But now we're going to pay a horrible price and we have to recognize that. And Biden is going to pay a price too. The poor man has to deal with the Congress that is not only dysfunctional but without a moral compass who doesn't care, who they don't care about the American experiment, the American people. Great points. Ladies and gentlemen, we just witnessed for the last 30 minutes why I refer to Jay Fidel as our political Nostradamus. So with that being said, I'd like to thank my co-host Jay Fidel and I'd like you to invite you next week to join us again at American Issues Take One. I'm Tim Appachell, your host. And until then, aloha.