 President Mohamed Buhari threatens to ultimate destruction of bandits after another mass killing and urges journalists to be watchful of the wordings in their reportage. And the People's Democratic Party Convention will not truncate the tenure of the party's suspended national chairman Prince Uche Secundus, who shares a senior number of the party. Well, this is Plus Politics, I am Mary Annacombe. President Mohamed Buhari has reacted to the latest killings by bandits in the Northwest, threatening the country by the bandits with ultimate destruction. His reaction came a day after armed bandits attacked a market in Goronio Sokoto State, killing at least 30 people. The attack is the latest by bandits in Sokoto, one of the states most affected by a banditry in Northwest Nigeria. The President also urged the media to address the tone, content, and standards of reporting into security and safety measures. He asked that the term rising in security should be replaced with the reality of declining in security. Well, joining us to discuss this and break down, the content of Mr. President's speech is Kwanum Terence, a security expert and Dr. Monday Umani, who is a legal practitioner. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Thanks for having me. Yes. Thank you, really. Great. Kwanum, you're a security expert, so I'm going to start with you. The President is talking tough yet again in terms of the bandits, in fact, generally about terrorism, and the fact that at least 40 people were killed in a part of the country. And this is not to, in any way, play down on the number of people who have been killed in that state. But we've had killings continuously happen across the country, and many people, especially in Kaduna State, have been calling on the President to, you know, somewhat do something to ease the pain of the people. We also know that Kaduna State has become more of a theater for these bandits, even though we also hear that some of these terrorists, such as Goharama, are moving now into areas such as those. Talking tough is something we've heard before. Is this enough for us to hold on to, or even the people whose family members have been killed as a result of banditry and the terrorism in this country? Is that enough of an encouragement or something to hold on to? Once again, thanks for having me. It's an unfortunate situation that we keep losing our citizens in this kind of situation, but the President's talking tough at the moment is not the solution to the issue. If you could recall, when these issues were hitting up in Zantara, we have discussed on this program, and we have set us on strategy that except we change the security architecture, where the command of security forces is deployed to the local levels, where these issues are taking place, we keep having this kind of explosion that will trick you down to other states. It has come to happen, and it's for the President to rather talk tough. I think we should rather change the security structure and architecture so that we can be able to achieve some results because if the command keeps coming from the top, it means that the criminals are going to have more space to explore. This explosion today, for example, has caused the intrusion of so-called the state, and if we keep playing politics with this and rather talking tough when the damage has been done, without actually changing the strategy, whereby a local government should also have a command to the security in this location. The governor should have command with security in the state, and ex-wife will keep having issues because the division of police officers that are in those local government where these issues are happening, if you go there you might discover that they are not properly armed, they are not taking direct service from the political head there. It has to trick you down from that local level sometimes up to a budget before they have to act, and if they are short of ammunition, they will not have the channel to get to the top for them to be re-armed and all that. It has to affect also inter before inter moves from the local communities up to the top to be classified and taken to the top. So the whole channel will not work. And today we have an explosion of bandits in Zahra that has intruded so-called though to murder my people down into another state and on and on and on. So I think the president should not go up top. The president should be able to reject his security architecture so that we should stop having security commands rushed from neighborhood so that we can be able to identify information intelligence at that level for us to be able to handle some of these situations because it's quite sad that until now we are in this mess having this thing on our hands for so many years and we have not been able to develop this strategy to protect this land. Every now and then we are here lamenting how we are listening to our fellow citizens because we are refusing to take action in our state. It's interesting that you mentioned all of these things again and again and what I'm thinking is what's the challenge? Because this is something that not just you but every security analyst in this country, whether they be on radio or TV, whether they be on round table conversations, these kinds of ideas have been thrown around. So my question is why is it so difficult or maybe why does it seem like a daunting task for the presidency to make this happen? He's the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. In other words, his word is final and we know just as you explained how power trickles down in terms of the forces. So what is the challenge? Why is this rocket science? And I always keep asking how many people have to die for us to be able to at least get it right? Even if it be a tiny little bit? I think it's a clear case of political leadership training us because like you say, yes, the solution has been there. The ideas have been there in public domain for them to use and therefore them not to be using them obviously. We have a problem with the political leadership, either they are politicizing the whole situation and we keep losing our citizens or they are just looking the other way and trying to make games out of what has come to face us today. And that is why at every point we keep in apology, they have to stand up and be able to protect themselves because we saw this kind of explosion trying to come up in places like Benway and then we saw how the governor stood up and took side with the citizens of the state to a point where he has to have issues with the federal government but he stood his ground and today those bandits that were trying to explode from there have been wiped out because the government there came out publicly to expose them and then keep insisting that they were there and they were ignoring them and to realize that they had been rooted out of that place and Benway is really still the same man except with some clashes of who are the headsmen and that's why I think that the political leadership is a failure in this situation because even if the federal government is there is being expressed some loyalty towards the issues on ground in your state the governor has to stop today to be able to stand up and defend their citizens the way governor would do with that attention will be given to them and their citizens might be at the safer side because the federal government is completely ignoring the rights countries that will be able to take decisions. I'll come back to you because there are a lot more questions that are gathering up in my mind as you speak but let me go to Dr. Bani. Dr. Bani, yesterday the information minister was quoted to be giving us a lecture on the difference between Boko Haram, bandits and iPob and he did lump iPob with Boko Haram saying they have ideologies and those ideologies are not in the interest of the entity called Nigeria but that the bandits do not have a flag, they do not necessarily have an ideology of sorts and so they cannot all be categorized. I'm asking this question because I want to talk about the issue of nomenclature. How do we deal with insecurity especially one that's a hydrated monster like banditry or whatever name we want to call it whether they are known gunmen or faceless gunmen or bandits or herders, killer herders how do we deal with that situation if the government is trying to tell us what to call it and how to report on it. Thank you very much for having me. When a government tries as much as possible to rationalize and call criminals a different name it would also affect their attitude how to tackle the state of insecurity and the things we've been discussing. I think we are also the empire of discussing this state of insecurity in Nigeria because virtually every week one television or the other radio station will assemble the SPATs and they profile the solutions and talk and tell us what is actually wrong with our security policing system and the government do not in any way take any of these suggestions and advise into consideration. You can't expect a different result. It's only a madman that does the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. What we do is to lament or to threaten or to use flower language in order to describe what has happened most of the times without any practical to the state of insecurity just as my brother has said if your policing system is over centralized direction and directive has to come from a Buddha in order to deal with the matter that is purely local there is no way we will expect an effective policing system. Now the bandits that came and attacked those people in the market in Sokoto I understood that there are more than 200 bandits where were they coming from were there no security you know on the road or on the way where did they come from and how did they manage to enter into such an environment such a large number of persons that came from wherever they come from and then did what they did and then escaped and nothing happened to them. So what manner of policing system are we using in this country in order to create a state of security what are we really protecting lives and property which I know is the primary responsibility of government so the reactionary strategy is not going to give us effective result there is no intelligence gathering there is no practical intention on the part of government to actually fight insecurity especially when a top government like the minister of communication or the minister of information is telling you that those who are bandits are so much lovers of Nigeria they are very patriotic that the only people that are not patriotic are the high power and those who are agitated for self-governance so those are people that should be considered an enemy and dealt with whereas those who are bandits and who are terrorists are very patriotic and they love Nigeria so much if the government officially is doing that by way of nationalization so do you expect the same government now to be regarded as enemies we should be dealt with that this government campaigned over and over again in fact this is one of the reasons why many Nigerians voted them into office one of the academy point was that they were going to fight and put an end to insecurity in the country we are almost 6 years into this administration and we have not necessarily been able to say that that has been done so really we expect them to whether they show us via their body language or not this is an expectation because they built up that expectation when they were campaigning for our votes yeah but they have shown you that they don't have the capacity to deal with those promises they made so many promises is it on the economics fair is it on the security they made so many promises what you and I know today those promises they have not been able to meet with it they have not in any way fulfilled those promises and they know it but my only problem and my own worry is that the same government that knows that they have held in keeping to those promises they made we come and on the office and throw it on our face and tell you that they are the best government that Nigeria has ever had from 1960 till then that they have done more than any other government and I tell you what have you done in what area can you really sell you sell Nigeria that you have exiled is it the time in the show of fighting insecurity which area to deal which region in Nigeria is planning to sell where can you go to your bed with your eyes closed in this country to then say I am safe because of the fact that the government is one if not for God who has been so magnanimous in protecting us the government has failed in this issue of fighting insecurity they have not succeeded in really keeping Nigeria safe but we have been iterated we have been saying that today virtually of all the regions the north west used to be safe Sokoto is a north west but you can see what happened in Sokoto where are many and now you are deploying the military so why we are the military not deployed in the first place to ensure that there is maximum security not if you look at Zafara it is very close to Sokoto whatever has happened in Zafara we can spread to Sokoto easily that there should be enough security so reactionary strategy cannot give us absolute security and as some people have said let's go through the issue of decentralization of the policing system we need state policy it should be local because security is local let people who are in need begin to man their own local government if every local government chairman man his local government everyone man his local government man his area man his world but this issue of waiting for Abuja to give directive what will happen in the remote village but we also cannot wait we still have to rely on Abuja in your own words because I do not know if the police act has room for that you are a lawyer so maybe you would educate us there has to be room in the constitution to accommodate state policing doesn't it yes there is a process that is ongoing on the amendment of the constitution and one of the suggestions by espads is that we should go for state policing including the governments that were initially very selfish and not agreeing they have come to realize that there is no way we can effectively police this country without state police and they have all agreed so that are main main is something that is ongoing and people are deeply in conversation we have seen what have been in other nations that are in the republic and what they do in terms of security they say that even their university has their own policing system the government has their own policing system so where is it in a big country like this you know in Nigeria you want every directive to come from Abuja where it has to think that our own remote villages all over the country it cannot in any way work that way and that's why we are saying that the government must take everything and look at it deeply in order for the sake of this country to actually change the you know policing architecture that is only where we can get ourselves effectively police and I think the ongoing conversation we will issue amendment of the constitution is in that regard okay let me come back to you Koenem because issues of security can be very sensitive and of course as journalists were trained on how to report them but then the presidency is speaking about journalists using certain terms and not using the other but as an English student I am looking at both statements that the president has made and he is saying that we should use one for the other one means that well they are gradually winning the war but the other is saying well we are experiencing some form of insecurity so I am trying to understand how one replaces the other but maybe you could help us understand how we should what we should see and what we shouldn't see in terms of reporting actually in the first place we are trying to cover the assailant and not how the reporters should be because what is happening in Northwest and the middle of this country is not attacked by terrorists but they have almost changed the narrative to make everybody believe that they are bandits and the press has already joined them through calling terrorists in this country bandits maybe because the coalition that is happening between the press and them is failing and that is why he is questioning the press if not we have been in Cumbag in this country and the government is rather covering terrorism in this country so that they will not have international interventions to help assist them in this crisis and that is why they keep looking for one excuse or the other to take the international community attention away from what is happening in this country but it is quite unfortunate that we have a government in this country that have been attacked by terrorists and rather than look for assistance and a way to flush them out of their boundaries they are looking for ways to protect them and give them a leg up back in to keep oppressing their city and so I expect that you know this should be professional in handling these issues that have to do with security in this country because no one is safe at the end of the day because they have started killing the people in quotes the high places that were said the issue that is happening in this country is what the government they were sure they could have handled we have saved the time with that number and the stories that we are moving from the north east to the north west we are going to have more life spaces to we have more urban spaces in the north west and the north east that they were operating and if we allow them to provide our urban spaces in the north west it is going to be a huge challenge for the government to handle without the use of technology and with the intervention of the international community the rather than admit what is happening to us as the people the solar government has been deploying every to cover it up to the point where we need trying to dictate to the press and what they are going to tell us as citizens we need to and also seek for help ourselves because we are the ones that are in this and we need the attention of the international community immediately to be able to resolve this issue because everything now and then on the daily basis as we are speaking now it is possible we might have been attacked somewhere but they they have always started deploying the strategy of probably not setting attack that are not in public domain so that these issues will not be reported so what is happening to us from the president is quite unfortunate and I don't think any press president can say that I like to balance the equation because there are people who have a school of thought that the media can also over report issues pertaining to terrorists and this is what they want because they want to continuously be in the news and be on the lips of people that way maybe they spread fear or gain some form of prominence I mean before we started talking about Burkha Haram they were just a slipper cell that were not so known so could it be said that maybe the media has also played a role in making these people relevant again if we do not in any way name them and we just report it as a known gunman or just say terrorist we decide to change it to or we refuse to put out the numbers and reduce the census journalism or maybe just say people were killed and not give numbers will that in any way help in the fight against insecurity and this is the crux of the matter for me if we were to do what the government is saying or what the people who oppose what the media is doing are saying will that in any way change the situation of things will it give government the time or will we just be playing a fool well first off we are under reporting the killings in this country because they mean the journalism themselves how what capacity do they even have to even go to some of these places that these killings are taking place I have done assessment in the Northeast and part of the Northwest and I know that most of the territory that these people have occupied you and I cannot have access to them not every security person can even have access they are taking over our own government spaces they have taken over communities in this country they are killing people on a daily basis and you cannot even access those places we really know how many people have been killed and what kind of damage has been done even the government in those places have concluded that those places are out of their workflow we are not aware so at times when you run through people's you become so amazed of the damage that has happened to this country so already we are under reporting this Christ and I think what the freedom government should have been doing was to try to collaborate with the international community to step in immediately because if we look at the sandmissile that we used to call in Boronu state in the Boko Haram days it is something that has been driven through Zanfar onto the Niger border the sandmissile forest that have been tied down in the north west has never ever been reported by the press there is this one in the sandmissile forest of the Greening Forest of the Zanfarah of the Sokoto's and of to Jibya at the borders of Nigeria have you people ever reported that all the streets are occupied by the so called bandits in this country so there is another reporting of this crisis in this country and you can see that what the freedom government should be doing is to look at strategies that are on the screen and not dictate to people how to report and network this because the damage has already been done finally Dr Bani still staying with the issue of reportage which is the clocks for the presidency and of course those who work for him this year has been a very interesting year for the media by the way in Nigeria we've had all kinds of bills come back and go we've had the NBC tell us how to report on this particular issue the NBC being the broadcasting commission which is in charge of regulating media houses told us also how to report on these issues and it didn't really go down well with people in the country aside from the media we've also seen people stations being clamped down on and sometimes journalists we saw the very the most recent was the I think it was channels to television and some of the reporters so really where is the insurance that cover the umbrella of the constitution in terms of where the journalist is safe when it comes to reporting as much as the reporter wants to put out news and put out information gets facts and put it out there how do you deal with also not being victimized by the powers that be apart from the other three major arms of government I'm talking about the executive judiciary and the legislative our 1999 constitution under fundamental objective and directive principle of state on set section of that particular chapter 2 give a very great responsibility to the Nigerian press in order to hold government accountable and make sure that government is clearly, clearly under watch and then information of what goes in governance being made known to the people so they are under premise under the constitution to under obligation to do that and then the fundamental rights provision which is in chapter 4 issue of freedom of expression is there and is guaranteed by the constitution and so the press has a constitutional responsibility in informing and also in holding government accountable and so no matter whatever government want to do in terms of clamping down on free expression just in that time is a constitutional responsibility for which the press at every point in time be ready and allowed in order to fight and then with the combined position of the civil society government must always be put on notice that they have no right whatsoever to clamp down on free expression free expression of the people is a guaranteed right and the Nigerian press is under obligation to hold them accountable now let me say when there is failure in governance when they have failed in legacy they don't want people to know about this and the next thing they will do is to clamp down and to ensure that you do not have the freedom to report and when you do they pose all manner of pedal including fine which is what is going on presently and of course there are some of the views that are pending of which stakeholders are clearly opposed and they are still helping on trying to tackle the people and tell them that they have no right. Remember that I banned Twitter and I'm in court presently over that Twitter ban and many people including Nigerian bad association they are also in court and so many other Nigerians and NGOs are in court over this short Twitter ban and they have even threatened to ban more others platforms in Nigeria because according to them they spread fake news I see no reason why the government should not be tolerant of opposing views I see no reason why government should not be interested in getting a feedback system from the people that have elected them because feedback mechanism is clearly inherent in democracy you need to hear from the people how they are feeling with your type of style of governance if you are not doing well they will tell you if you are doing well they will also appraise you and say that you are doing very well and so this issue of being highly intolerant is something that has actually given this government part of the minus is that we talk about where is government so they have done it over years now it is reported that from 2015 to then Nigeria is clearly not under democracy in terms of freedom of expression that they have clamped down on media houses who free express and inform Nigerians of what is going on in governance and it is not a good thing because the world has become a good place so people are knowing what is going on here is not right Dr. Bani knowing is not enough I ask that question deliberately who protects the journalist yes it is the only profession in the constitution that has been given a responsibility to be the fourth state of the realm but where is the cover for the journalist where is the protection for the journalist we even see media houses that employ these journalists throw them under the bus when push comes to shove so really where is the encouragement to really be a journalist and be unbiased I don't think that the journalists are left alone in this fight the NGOs and some of the civil society groups have been always on the side of the basic responsibility that the constitution has assigned to the profession and of course judiciary is against any oppressive pronouncement of any government so the judiciary is always there if anyone freestreats at any point in time about this issue of clamp down on free expression the courts will become the last result the court will be able to protect and the courts have been living up the expectation as I said earlier on this year on Twitter and I believe that before the end of this year we should be able to know where we are with regards to that the government is also feeling the heat they are making arrangements now to leave the ban on Twitter and all that so what I think we should do that there must be a combined effort in order to let the government know that there is free speech in the country and that can be done by the populace resisting any sort of democratic or draconian policies of government especially against free speech that's what I think and then the judiciary is there for you that's what I can assure you well I want to say thank you Dr Mundi Ubani and of course Terence Kwanum thank you so much for being part of this conversation we appreciate it that's a pleasure well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break now and when we return we will discuss the possibility of the PDP convention negatively ending the tenure of its embattled chairman although he seems to think different stay with us