 Part of what created this shift was also recruitment marketing. Where are potential associates going to find information about us? Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right everybody, welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe that our online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams alongside my co-host Beth Popney-Glove, and we have an awesome show lined up for you today. It is incredibly apropos that for our 184th episode, we are able to welcome Amy Smiley. She is the vice president of Marketing for None Other Than 84 Lumber. Amy, we're so excited to have you here. We are big fans of 84 Lumber. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me, and I love that it's the 184th episode. I love when things work out. So before we dive in, we've got obviously loads to ask you, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at 84 Lumber? Sure, absolutely. So Amy Smiley, vice president of Marketing at 84 Lumber Company, I joined the company back in January of 2016. So I've been with the company a little over six years, six wonderful years. And I oversee our marketing department, which handles everything from public relations to philanthropic efforts to national marketing all the way down to our local store marketing, digital marketing, basically events, anything that you associate marketing with. We handle it here out of 84 Pennsylvania, which is where we were founded in 1956 and where our team headquarters is located. We don't use the word corporate, we use team headquarters, because we really truly feel that we're all one big team, and we're here for the stores. So a little bit of a different approach, and it's been wonderful. And I have a fantastic team that helps me execute all of those things that I mentioned is not a one man show, it takes a village. And I am just really excited to be talking to you guys today. That's great. Amy, we're thrilled to have you on the show. And for our listeners, I want to start off just by hearing from you the first that's four years of your career at 84 Lumber, what will we call like a normal? And then the last 24 months have been a little crazy. I'd love to get your take on how the market has changed from your perspective at 84 Lumber, and where do you see it going moving forward? Well, that is such a great question. I would say yes. The first four years were kind of that traditional marketing and the pandemic hit, and we had already started building kind of our digital pipeline for a better word. Our presence was out there, and everything through 2021, through even last year, the numbers are crazy for impressions and our engagement on social media. This is to our website. People were home and they're like, how do I get this information? These projects I want to work on, I mean, it has exploded. So we were very fortunate that we kind of laid that groundwork prior to the pandemic, but it's definitely shifted how we do business and how we market. And we learned so much during those times. And obviously, we're carrying that with us moving forward in how we best plan for the future. Is there anything specific that stands out to you of two years ago, we were really just talking about doing X, Y, and Z in our marketing, but then because of the pandemic or the way things have shifted now, we had to accelerate the timeline on that? So I would say part of what created this shift was also recruitment marketing, where are potential associates going to find information about us? And so we have joined TikTok. And where is before, I mean, you know, a lot of what we do and what we focus on on TikTok is talking about positions at 84, talking about career growth, and where we have hiring events happening versus like, hey, come buy this two by four. And that's where you're reaching that next generation of potential associates, right? That's where they're spending a lot of their time and they're seeing our name pop up and see that brand recognition. And so I would say before TikTok would have been like, our customers aren't really on there, but the future of the company is on there. And so how do you embrace that and what messaging are you putting out there? And obviously you see that with Instagram as well and reels and how do you, you can share your TikTok videos on Instagram. And so that has been interesting and something that we didn't essentially plan for but has kind of, you know, shifted some of our focus. So you got into it for recruiting, not for new customer acquisition. It's like, hey, like a lot of people, they're feeling the pinch of labor right now. And you said, where, where's a younger generation? How do we get them into our organization? And you said, let's do TikTok dance videos. That's what you said. We're not doing dance videos. We focus so much of our video content, right, on sharing success stories, focusing on some of our stores, those operations. And so that's just translated really well into TikTok videos. We kind of repurposed our videos, which was super helpful. So we're getting more bang for our buck for that, right? And obviously now we have more customers who are on TikTok. And we partnered with some, some social media influencers and they're on TikTok. And so it has, it's, it's definitely building. But I would say the initial thought was, yeah, let's get on there for recruitment purposes. So you're talking about the future of 84 Lumber, and that's really creative and smart like how do we get where they are today so that when they are really want to get serious about their careers or in the job market, like they think of us. I just, I love that. So I know, Amy, one of the things that you're really passionate about is creating space for women in the building materials industry. Yeah. So let me ask a couple of questions about that because I just, I obviously love this idea and this positioning that you have. Can you speak to how you've seen the position of women in the industry change over the last decade or maybe over the last six years since you've been with 84 Lumber? Well, 84 is already in a unique position in the industry because we are owned by a woman. So we're a woman owned company in this industry. So already we're set apart, right? And it's been really great to see other women like myself taking on leadership roles. So obviously I'm in charge of marketing. Our head of real estate and development is a female. Our head of our training and development program is also a female. Our head of HR is a female. Our controller of the company is a female. So there are so many opportunities within 84. And I think what we've really done is, yes, obviously we love to share Maggie's story and how she's kind of transformed our company and how we're just set up for the future. But also highlighting these women in these different positions that we do have. It's great for our career marketing side of things. But we've also embraced women's history month. So we're just coming off of celebrating that a few months ago. And we've done different things where we've highlighted other women businesses. We've highlighted key positions in our company. We've donated to specific organizations. We partnered with the Pittsburgh Penguins. And we gave away and empower her grant, which was $25,000. This is the second year that we've done it. And we got over 800 submissions of women owned businesses. And so being an ally for other people, not necessarily even in the construction industry, but one where we have stores or where we have our headquarters has really been wonderful for us and great for the community. That's incredible. I love all of that. Are there ways that you feel like you've seen doors be more open or conversations shift in the last couple of years that you felt like were maybe a little bit more difficult previously? One of the things that I've noticed is that there's been more conferences and meetings. And HBS Steeler has their top women awards. And I was in the inaugural class, I think end of 19 going into 20. And last year, we were able actually to do it in person. And so seeing publications within our industry, seeing things that IBS are part of any HB, where there are conversations that are happening, whereas I would say maybe five, six years ago, it was not part of the agenda. So we partnered with the book, The House That She Built, and being able to tell that story and how that be in schools. And I think it's definitely headed in the right direction. Obviously, it's going to take time. But when you have brands like 84, Anderson, who really get on board and support it, I think the future is super bright. Absolutely. What that perfectly brings me to my next question, which is what is your vision for the future of women in building materials? I think my vision is to continue to hire and retain and promote as many women as possible. I actually have an all-female team. It hasn't always been an all-female team, but it is exciting to see new people come into the company and be able to share my story with other people. And just continue to see that happen and grow and evolve naturally. I think part of it is getting your name out there and sharing your story. LinkedIn and those types of platforms are wonderful for being able to let people know. Like, oh, I would never think in a million years I'd work for 84 Lumber. But it's like there are so many opportunities besides a manager training at a store. And I think people have this perception of, I have to work in the yard, or I have to do this, and I have to do that. And the great thing about this industry as a whole is that there is such a wide variety. And I think continuing to showcase those stories is really what's going to make the difference. Beth, you and I were talking about this before the show, Beth, you and I were talking about this before the show that what 30% of our industry, and this is mostly construction companies, are women. It's dominated by men, right? But what's important about that is I was reading a stat recently that said in most industries, most being very generalized term, but typically, workforces are 50% female, 50% male. In the construction industry, if I'm remembering correctly, and I'm sure somebody will email us if I'm not, I believe it's 30% female, 70% male. And when you look at actual job sites, it's actually 5% to 10% female, up to 90%, 95% male. So I think what you're doing, Amy, and the conversations that you're having, being a part of and the conversation that you're starting is really important because it's important that women feel like this is a like the construction industry is a place where they are welcome, a place where they can be successful, a place where you're not a second choice, but you are the same choice that you have in, there's an equity play for women. And that means that we have to have these conversations in order to create that space. Absolutely. Well, I think on a side note, like I think this is smart because, and I know you all are thinking about this too, Amy, but like everybody in our industry for the most part is struggling with labor. And we're just, everyone's like, how do I get more people into my organization? How do we recruit better? And you all are coming out at a very different angle and saying, Hey, we're championing women in this way. And we're also meeting a younger generation of women and telling these stories of women being successful in an industry that maybe they haven't even thought about, you know, they haven't thought it was even possible. And so from a simple, you know, simply just recruiting perspective, it's really smart not to mention how do we elevate women and give them opportunities that maybe they didn't even think were possible. So I, I mean, my hack goes off to you. It's really cool to hear about your story here, but it's also, I think a lesson to anybody in our industry going, how can we do this? And you all are really modeling that I'm curious to get your take, you know, when you look at your marketing, if we, you mentioned TikTok, for example, do you have any specific stories you can share like, Oh, well, we did this one story, or we did this video piece, whatever it might be. And we saw a bunch of really good response, just as an example to our listeners, not to put you on the spot. You know, the one video that really just blew up, it was actually a, it went viral on TikTok, was a video that is from one of our vendor suppliers. It's a product called Evolvstone. And we shared it, posted it, and it just went off like gangbusters. And it's, it's funny because you just, the ones you sometimes think are like, Oh, this is going to be a huge hit, like ends up not being in the one, like we just can't figure it out. It's a crazy algorithm. But I will say, from a, from a recruitment standpoint, we as a company, we have an award ceremony every year, and we pick manager of the year, we pick rookie of the year, and we have area manager of the year. The manager of the year, that is like the coveted position, right? That's like, that's the end all be all you want to be the manager of the year. And so we do a story and we highlight that manager's like profile, right? Like I started at 84, a lumber 15 years ago. I didn't think, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know anything about the construction industry. And now here I am managing a $200 million plus yard. And I've got 86 employees, whatever it is, right? We ship 40,000 tons of lumber. I mean, these stories, I mean, it really can be kind of like a rags to riches story, right? You come out some of them didn't even go to college. Like, hey, I just took a chance, right? And here I am, and I'm super successful, and I'm running the store and it's beyond my expectations. And so being able to show someone like, hey, you don't have to be this construction wizard, and you don't have to know anything, the difference between, you know, OSB and certain types of plywood or whatever it might be. Like we come and we teach you all that here at 84. And it really is all about working hard, caring, and checking your ego at the door. And that's really how you become successful here. So seeing those and then the rookie of the year is somebody who is a new associate, promoted to, started as an MT and promoted to co manager within that like 18 month period, and is kind of ready to take that next level. And, you know, is highly recommended by their area manager, their store manager, their divisional vice president, and they come here and they interview with our COO, myself, our head of HR, and we kind of, we pick the rookie of the year and it's really exciting and people get excited for it. Like, oh, I was nominated because it's only one per division and we have four divisions. So when we do select that candidate, we do a story on them as well, too. And those are real life. Hey, this is where I started. This is where I am. And like, it's just, it's such good content. And people just share and, you know, people are like, I want to hire that rookie of the year at my store, come work for me, becomes this like competition of who can get the best new talent. Yeah, I love that. I love that. What you're sharing with us about the culture of 84 goes beyond, you know, we want to make a place for women and we want to do this, we want to do that. But it's like you guys are creating a space in the industry that is healthy and honoring of people in general, you know, like it's who you are. And so naturally, it goes down this channel of also being an advocate for women in the industry. It's really, it's really incredible. I love the holistic picture of that. Yeah, we're, you know, promote from within company, right? You start with us, you stay with us, we'll get you, you'll just keep moving up the ladder. And that's really important, because, you know, being a second generation family-owned company, that's where you get that family aspect. Your store becomes your family. And it's, it's awesome to see that growth. And even myself personally, like, we all have a story. And, you know, I, when I came here, I honestly had no idea what this was going to be. And I've worked my way up to a vice president position and did a Super Bowl commercial. And like, what? Like, you know, you don't think like you're going to come work for a lumber company and do a 90 second zero ball spot. But that's the great thing about 84 is that, you know, the opportunities that are presented to you are just phenomenal. And they have so much trust in their associates to get the job done. And if you try hard and give it your best, you know, look, see what happens. I mean, hey, we're 66 years strong. So, and only getting better. So I'm a prime example in my own way of how you can come in and have that entrepreneurial spirit and, you know, be successful. That's awesome. Amy, for our listeners, if you're, let's say they're a manufacturer or someone in the space and listen to this going, hey, you all built this incredible culture. You're doing a great job at recruiting and hiring. Like, what's the one piece of advice that you would give them, especially considering the current market climate of, you know, the labor shortage and just the amount of competition there is for great talent. That's a hard one. I would say a couple of things. Don't give up. Keep trying. You know, sometimes it is a little bit of trial and error. So you figure out what works best for you and your company. You know, it's not a one size fits all what works for an $8 billion company, you know, might be a little bit different for, you know, someone on a smaller scale. Surround yourself with good people and connections. I think that's a really big thing and making sure you're authentically telling your story. I love that. I love that. Yeah, that's awesome. For our listeners, if they want to connect with you, Amy, what's the best way for them to do that? To connect with me personally, I'm on LinkedIn. So you can look me up there. And then obviously, you know, we have 84 Lumber as a huge president on all of our social media channels. And so, and 84Lumber.com. That's awesome. Amy, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been awesome. And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this content, make sure you go to Venvio.com slash podcast to subscribe to get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams alongside Beth Hoppegelov. Thanks, everybody.