 Welcome back to The Breakfast here on Plastivia Africa. Our first major conversation this morning is going to, of course, the Judy Sherry Staff Union of Nigeria, who have called of their strike. It's been long enough. And this morning we're speaking with Mr. Justice Uwe Buz, a human rights lawyer. Good morning. Thanks for joining us, sir. Good morning. Good morning. It is my pleasure once more. Thanks for joining us. You know, I'm sure courts, you know, workers and, of course, Nigerians across the country would be celebrating the end of this strike. Is it also something that you're happy about? Let's start with that. Your reaction to, you know, the decision to call of the strike? Well, actually, I am happy because we've been at home for some time, did nothing. But in the other way around, if you... Seems we're having a bit of a technical glitch this morning. We'll try to get back with our guests. But yeah, he started off saying he's happy. You know, no one likes to just be idle, you know, in as much as we say, oh, I wish I was chilling at home today at work. But when that situation comes, you find that that's really not what you want. So people are happy. Lawyers are happy to be back to the court. But we need to get just exactly what this means for him and other lawyers across the country. It's the longest ever strike by Judiciary workers in Nigeria. Actually, the longest ever industrial strike, 64-day-old, the longest ever industrial action the Nigerian judiciary has ever seen. So we really need to get a feel of what lawyers really have to see about this. What role has the NLC played, if any, what role has the NBA played about this? What role has the government played? And beyond calling off the strike, the crocs of the matter, why didn't back down that strike in the first place? Have those issues been resolved? Let's talk about a memorandum of understanding a couple of days ago. There's also those who have been waiting for the courts to be back in session so they can either grant a bill or at least have their cases passed through the process. And it's taken too long to just keep waiting and waiting and waiting. Some of them, of course, are still behind bars, hoping that their cases will be heard. We've spoken about the inadequacies that our judicial system has been dealing with for a long time and why it takes so long for court cases to finally be concluded. You see a case running for three, four, five years, which is totally abnormal. And then you now compound that with a strike that lasts for more than two months. So it is good news. But like you said, has the memorandum of understanding be fully complied with? Do we expect that in another four months, just once again say, well, somebody reneged on their promises? We're going back to, you know, on strike. The governor of River State also is pretty critical here. And of course, how is every state governor going to be playing his part with this understanding? Mr. Awekbo, welcome back. Thank you. All right. Please go ahead. Yeah, what I'm trying to say is that for me, I am not too surprised that the judiciary went on strike. And as much as it has been the longest in our history. But moving away from that, the question we should be asking ourselves is, should the government always allow people or workers in the country to always embark on strike before they do the need to or before they do what they're supposed to do? As far as I'm concerned, it is neither here nor there. I will not even be surprised if by the next one month, or two months there about, this will go on, we'll be back into another strike. Because signing a memorandum on agreement, it doesn't end here because we've discovered and seen in the country, we have so many memorandum of understanding and agreement signed by the labor union and the government, we are not kept to. So in fact, it's a team of worry because if at this point in time, that judiciary can embark on strike for this length of time, and the government allowed it to linger to this time, I am surprised, I don't know where we are in this country. But you mentioned that you will not be surprised if there's another strike in one month. Why would that be? Is it that the reasons why they went on strike in the first place have not been addressed regarding judicial autonomy? Well, it has been addressed, you showed to us on paper. But in practical terms, has it been addressed? Now what I'm saying is that something to me is not only the issue. We would have expected, you know, they want to promote the movement, we would have expected implementation of all these things. Should we wait until you sign something before people do the need for, before people do what they're supposed to do? And all the things, these things just mean action that some other people are asking. There are even things that the government should optimally do. These things are even constitutional provisions that you don't need to embark on strike, but you don't need to wait for government to do what they're supposed to do. That's what I'm trying to say. Now you and I know that this is not the first time in the history of this country that agreements have been signed. Look at the answer for example. How many every time are you going to sign? Why? Because of the same thing. At the end of the day, agreement to be signed, at the end of the day, it will not be kept. So why are we here? Why are we behaving this way? Okay, so I need to ask you the question. So if there's, if there seem to be a history of, you know, government and workers signing agreement on something and the government renerges or breaches that contract, why in this case, did just now wait for the practical implementation of the things they're asking for before calling off the strike? Well, you know, the truth is that the quality is high. People are actually angry. And also with what is happening in Nigeria today. Okay, look at that. You can just take a, if you see to maybe to our correctional homes and all the way. There are overnight cases every day. Go to correctional home. You see that people are multiplying on daily basis and all the way. So I believe one of the reasons why this one has to do these things is even out of sympathy. Let me put things that way. There may not come out to tell people. But that's the truth. All right. Okay. So, so how much, you know, does this ease the judicial, you know, system and the whole process, you know, and which people should be celebrating the call enough of this strike? Every Nigerian should be celebrating because one way or the other, we are all involved. Because I'm involved. So directly or indirectly, we are all involved. If judiciary is not working, even you people there will still not be happy. You will be involved one way or the other. You'll be concerned. So every country, every person in the country should be celebrating. Because judiciary, of course, you know, that we say that judiciary is the last hope of the common man. So how would the common man get his hope if judiciary is actually doing nothing? Oh, well, you know, from the way it sounds, from the way it sounds, you know, and like you've said, you know, you know, one of the reasons why this strike may have been called up is because of the overheated polity across the country. And, you know, just some may have seen that they need to keep, you know, get things moving, you know, again. Are you worried, you know, about the partial implementation of the Memorandum of Understanding? Do you think? And of course, like the River State Governor, yes, I'm wiki had already made his own views clear with regards judicial autonomy and the Memorandum of Understanding just on strike. So are you worried that, you know, maybe not all state governments will go ahead with the implementation of this MOU? Well, the truth is this, we, unfortunately, we are in a situation where we play politics with everybody. Well, secondly, and most importantly, where the executive arm of the government has almost swallowed the two other arms of government, you know, thinking or feeling that both the legislature and you basically detuned. For me, for me, the way I see this whole thing, the way I look at it, just so it's not even supposed to go on strike in the first place, the two bodies that are supposed to be a check or a one-stop to the executive is the judiciary and the legislators. But because of politics, they're not even doing this. Because the judiciary and the legislators, what the governors have done, and even the president, is even at a future good offense. The constitution provides, made the provision that an act has to be done, and you are not doing it. So why is the judiciary at the Central Skipping Fire? Why must you resort to as if you're against it? That is the problem here. If we're doing the needful, the problem is that our institutions are not working. If our institutions are working, I don't think that this price will be better. This decision will come up and take up the need. That is just the thing. Wow. You made a very strong statement there saying the executive has swallowed the other arms of government. You know, beyond just soon, what do you think the government needs to do institutionally to check this? Because the executive, they know that if they allow the institutions to work, they will not be neither here nor there. Do your job as the executive and also do their own. That is why they check some balancing. And that is why it was provided, I've been sure, that the three organs of government must work separately in order to avoid charity. But today, unfortunately in this country, the three organs of government are not working separately. The executive has swallowed the two other arms of government as a result of qualities. Because it always involves the people they want, both in the charity and both in the legislature, in order to play their piece. So it has become an issue of who pays the FIFAR, detests the tune. That is just what is happening in Nigeria today. Okay, now let's also talk, you know, of the reasons behind the strike. How much does judicial autonomy change or improve on our judicial system? You see, I have to make you say are we not even ashamed? Are we supposed to be talking about judicial autonomy at this stage alive? It's not like we're talking about local government autonomy. Okay, are we also talking about legislative autonomy? In fact, let me tell you the truth. And it seems to be a conspiracy now between even the legislative and judicial system. Where are the legislators not even talking? Okay, look at it, look at it. Our house of, our senators, our house of members are there and they kept quiet for over two months. And the judiciary is almost as your strike. What did they do? What have they done? Have they called anybody to arrest? The various types of assemblies of the states, what have they done? They did not do anything. That is to tell you that the moment you begin to place selfish policies and continue these selfish policies we are playing, it can never over well with this conflict. There is no to require. Okay, I want you- So, this is of an autonomy or no, I'm supposed to be saying this. Okay. Barista, we know that this strike really has been on for a while now, about two months. And you mentioned that Jusun probably ended the strike out of sympathy because a lot of cases to attend to. So, can you please give us a sense of what it might look like? Would judiciary workers having to deal with such a huge backlog of cases wants to resume? Well, the truth is this, I have to tell you the truth. The courts, I see the courts are going to give them parts, especially overnight cases. You know what I mean by overnight cases. My friends that just came from the police station to the courts and all that. I remember there are a lot of daily basis that goes on. And you only need the courts for giving interpretation to them as I speak to you. Everybody is hanging in the country. Once you have any issue with anybody in there, no matter how late they are, the excuse they will give you is that the court is not working. And what do you do? Do you want to resolve to serve her? And the answer is no. So, that's why I think that it's going to affect everything. Remember that the only matter the judiciary is not only criminal matter. There are civil matters that are there. The final cases may need to come into the other way, but nobody is doing that. Okay. So, you see that one way or the other Nigerians have been abstracted in one way or the other. So, I immediately, I see by one difference, by one day, the cultural activity that part. All right, Boris, Justice Huwebu, we thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on the suspensions that strike by Jusson. Have a great day. All right. At least now, take people to court for using Twitter illegally. If you have VPNs on your phone, you might be getting a knock on your door. Our many people are sent to the courts and maybe to jail. We hope it won't get to that. Anyway, we know that there's a lot of talk about regional security and many others. So, they might just be licensed to carry weapons and operate regionally to ensure security in the states and regions. And that's because the House of Reps are considering a bill to that effect. I will discuss that in detail after this break.