 We had the best time doing the initial breakdown of the body language and behavior in this video and we decided we'd revisit some of our favorite moments from it. You did not shoot Travis. No, I've never even shot a real gun. You did not stab him 27 times. That's that's heinous. Or slit his throat from ear to ear. I can't imagine slitting anyone's throat. When's the last time you guys used the word heinous? I used it Tuesday, but that's a red flag. All right, Chase, what do you got? So the questions are all formed to have single word responses. You did not shoot Travis. You did not stab him 27 times. Let his throat from ear to ear. Bad idea. If you're interviewing anybody, a person for a job employment, open-ended questions are what you mostly want to do, but we still need closed-ended questions always. But this is not the time to do it. She never even got a chance to respond, which I think is what's the word? heinous. Yeah, heinous. It's just absolutely heinous. It was a heinous thing here. I was going to say egregious. And the answers are ambiguous and evasive. I'll leave it at that Scott. All right. When she says, I never even shot a real gun, we hear fading facts. No, I've never even shot a real gun. When someone's not being asked for the, a lot of times what they'll do, as any of you heard me talk about this before, as they're giving the answer, they get quiet toward the end of it. Not that quiet, but you'll hear it fade like that. And she backs up just a bit. It's really subtle, but watch for it at that point. No matter what she says, every answer she gives, she's got qualifiers for it. No, I've never even shot a real gun. That's heinous. Everything has a qualifier. She never goes, no, it wasn't me. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. No. Are you kidding me? No. I told you, no, I didn't do it. Never any of that. Never happened to settle her down. Never goes off. Nothing. And again, her hands match in every move, every time he counts, then she does the very same thing. She's just mimicking this guy. Literally not mirroring, but just mimicking what he does. She's reflecting, not digital flexion. She's reflecting what he's doing back to her. At that point. All right. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, guys, baseline, baseline, baseline, baseline. I ask you, did you stab this guy 27, did you slit his throat? Look, guys, average people, if you ask, did you slit this guy's throat? Well, no. Disgust. Something on your face. Not, no, I didn't do that. That's heinous. For me, something is going to go back. You're not going to be unemotional talking about stabbing a guy 27 times, cutting his throat, shooting him, looking for a reason why you couldn't have shot him, because you never shot a gun before. Okay. I could say I never shot a gun before, even in my life. Okay. We'll figure that out. Let's see where it happened. I can't imagine. Well, she probably doesn't have to imagine. She knows what it's like. So she can say, I can't imagine what it's like. No emotion, no story. Only thing she's doing is whatever this guy needs. This is one-on-one for her. That's all it is. And she's doing whatever she feels like he needs. And she thinks, you hit it earlier, Scott, that newscasters don't get on and do a lot of this. They're reading the news now for the facts. You know, that kind of thing. And she's doing that. She's mirroring this guy. She's being as contained as she can. And when I was a kid, you know, they would always say, watch your peas and queues. And that's a very English thing. I'm sure you might even know where it comes from, Mark. But she's watching her peas and queues. She's sitting on her hands. She's paying attention to every piece of body language, because she knows somebody's going to be watching this and that somebody is us. And whatever she doesn't leak, she thinks we don't get. But what she doesn't understand is humans have a baseline. And humans, when we're communicating, raise our brow and we move our heads and we show disgust. And we have seven universal emotions that everybody can pick up on unless they're somewhere on the spectrum and can't see faces. She forgot that. She's too smart for her own goodness case. And so she's projecting a lot of overprepared, trying to mimic the guy and not delivering a clear message. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, peas and queues. For dyslexics like me, those are exactly the same thing. Same symbol. Mark, I wish you knew how many times I had to go back into art before we published those things. And I look over the headline and the letters are switched on that. Not making fun of you. You're the one with a 51-year-old kid, but I actually do that a lot. You know what? There was a thing on the internet on LinkedIn the other day, some dyslexics talking about not being able to tell left from right, which I have a huge problem with left and right. And the amount of people who went, well, you just got to do that, not understanding to many dyslexics like me, that's exactly the same symbol. It's exactly the same thing. There is no difference between the two. I don't know which one is an L at all. So anyway, it's interesting that we're on the hands now because, you know, I got here, you know, Justice Scott was talking about the descriptors there and the mirroring of the descriptors. Because you've got an interviewer who's going one, two, however, you've got a Jodiarius who is going one, goes for her little finger instead of her index finger. Now, most people that I ever come across, when they count, when they start to do the descriptor of the list, they will do index finger to index finger and they'll count in this way. She's going backwards. And so look, I maybe would need to look at a baseline around this. And is that just a little quirk of hers? I think it's because this is not a rational list in her head. And so her brain is screwing up which way the list should do. And it's going backwards for her. Because also just if you try this yourself, it hurts when you do that with your index finger on your little finger. So most people won't do that because you push a bit hard and it hurts. This is more usual. So that was of interest to me. And then exactly as other people had there, the denials all have qualifiers here. So real, heinous, can't even imagine, same as everybody else had. You know, everything now is a little bit of a qualified negotiation. So again, as I start going, as I look at this fresh, I'm starting to see a personality here where somebody will start to negotiate the value system or the qualifiers or the qualities of everything that is said. Again, red flags go off in my mind around what kind of person we've probably got here. And that's all I've got for you. You did not shoot Travis. No, I've never even shot a real gun. You did not stab him 27 times. That's heinous. Or slit his throat from here to here. I can't imagine slitting anyone's throat. I have to ask you this. Did you kill Travis? Absolutely not. No, I had no part in it. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I had no part in it, which is pretty defiant and pretty clear. However, chin tilts up at that point. There is a little touch of potential arrogance there. A bit of a sense of, I don't think you can touch me. Still nothing happening in the forehead here. Again, notable. What I find interesting is we've got sour taste here as well. Those corners pinch up. You get the cheeks coming in, that sense of something sour in the mouth. Little bit of a swallow as well as she prepares for the question, which is, you know, the question, you know, did you kill somebody? And so there is some preparation. And then once she said what she said with that little bit of defiance and arrogance, it goes back to sour taste as the lips pull back and the cheeks pull in there. So again, as a, you know, I still don't quite know what this is about. But as I'm looking at this, I'm going this summing up with that statement and that question. There, Scott, what have you got? All right. Again, we have hard eye contact and she's again mirroring these people. She's reflecting. It's not, not talking about digital flexion. It sounds like it. Let's say reflecting. I was talking about she's reflecting what she's seen off these women now. This is the same, the same video was made and one of those where she started, she's put her makeup on at the beginning and talking to those women. It's three women asking her questions in this, in this section, in this interview she's doing. And what she's doing is she's trying to be like all three of those women. They're in there. They look nice. They're, they know they're going to be on TV. So they're all dressed up and look nice. And she's as well. Her hair is down her face now. It's pulled back behind her ear, the ear that you can't see. I guess her right ear is pulled back so you can't see it. So she's still hardcore. She's, she's juggling three people at the same time. And if you were to go through, if we were to go through that video, we'd see her doing that, uh, imitating each one of those women as well. And she gives her stock answer. Her poorly rehearsed answer, absolutely not. And she's almost, she looks scared to death when she's doing that because she, she knows that's not true. And she's looking right at these women who's trying to be like, and this is what separates her from those women. She's in prison and they're not, they're there to talk about her being in prison. So that makes her uncomfortable. I think that's why we're seeing that, um, look on her face. Chase, what do you got? Well, you guys covered everything I had except for one thing. We have another case vanishing perpetrator. Did you do this? No. These people did. Who broke into the home as I witnessed the things that happened in the room. That would have been a better answer than what she gave here, even though it's horrible. The perpetrator would be key front and center. Not just that she knew that it happened, but that she witnessed the entire event according to her. The perpetrator would be the key player in the entire story. So no, I didn't kill this. I, I didn't kill this guy. I know who did it. I watched them do this and they did this and this and it was horrible. It was awful. I curled up in a ball or I covered my ears. A lot of those kinds of things tend to happen in stories like this. Greg? Yeah. So a couple of things. I can't remember anything about this person that she mentioned earlier. What we know is that criminals, people who do it for a profession, know about redirects. So they may wear a big floppy hat or do something odd like that. I'm going back to McDonald, whatever. And that is a giveaway to allow a person to catch and link on to something that they've then discard. Watched the case a couple of days ago where a woman was wearing a very distinct dress. They remember the dress, not the woman. So that's criminal 101 for organized crime folks and that kind of thing. They redirect and then they throw away whatever the prop is. At least she would have remembered that. And to your point, Chase, and the only reason I'm jumping on that is because of this perpetrator thing. She would have said, and they were wearing a raincoat when they came in the house or something. She would remember something, not nothing. Just remembering nothing is a piece. And you would say some other scumbag did this to your point, not this. When she asked her, did you deep swallow? The only thing I noticed that we hadn't mentioned is a really deep swallow. And then she declares in that voice tone and she puts emphasis. Mark, you talk about driving down. The emphasis is on no part. No, I had no part in it. Is that jaw comes up and that draws her lips back for requesting approval. It's all I see. She's romancing this woman the same way. Now go back and listen to her voice tone when she's talking to this woman versus that man. No, I had no part in it. No, I've never even shot a real gun. She is changing her voice tone and her demeanor as she talks to this woman. Very different personas. And you're going to see her playing throughout the reason I said she gets a different crazy suit every day. She's going to be different in every one of these things. You see her personality is there, but it's certainly not consistent. The only consistency is she's giving you what you need. That's what I got. Did you, I have to ask you this. Did you kill Travis Hulks? Absolutely not. No, I had no part in it. You ripped it up. Yes. Didn't you think it might be important to save it to show the cops and the detectives? In fact, I am still being threatened by these two people who allegedly committed this crime. Yes. And I absolutely regret that these notes came within days of my arrest. And I think still that I was just very scared for my family. And it's only now that I'm speaking out about this because I just need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harm's way because I decided to do obviously a little late, but I decided to do the right thing and then tell what I knew because by, you know, the reason I'm sitting here is because I didn't do the right thing is because I didn't go to the police right away. I didn't call 911 right away. You know, I didn't, I didn't go to a neighbor's house. Mark, you want to go first? Yeah. So the first thing I really, really love is, is about halfway through the incredulity in the interviewer's eyes. Is she really going that way? Is this really what's happening right now? It's just brilliant. She's just genius. The other thing I love in this one is when, is when Arius kind of just goes back in her chair wide-eyed and goes, yes. Yes. The cops. Yes. Like, I knew I should have done brilliant, brilliant idea. I knew I should have done that. I knew I should have. Again, just trying to make a connection with her. Just trying to make a connection and go, that is brilliant. I should have done that. I knew at the time I was thinking the way you're thinking, but gosh, not quite. Like you're smart. I'm smart. I'm not quite as smart as you right now, but we're both smart. So always trying to play and make those connections. Then we get these eyes down, but she keeps unlocking eye contact on the things she really wants that interviewer and the audience to really know, which is scared for my family. The idea of faith. The Lord. The right thing. It says it twice again and locks eye contact. The right thing. Police right away. So she's now locking eye contact to try and enforce some ideas, especially this idea of a higher power. You know, and doing the right thing. And the only reason that she's there is because she did the wrong thing. But now she's in fear for her family's life because she's doing the right thing. And she has faith that God would not punish the repentant and the righteous. And that ultimately is what she's trying to do there is to say, I'm being repentant and righteous now. And therefore my faith is in God that he would never punish that. And therefore anybody who is, you know, believing in God or religious in that way, you wouldn't punish me either because this is now, you know, the work of God, repentance and righteousness. It's extraordinary. It's kind of brilliant. But again, the interviewer quite rightly is there incredulous at the angle that she's taking on this. What a performance. What a performance. Chase, what do you got? Yeah. So I think we're seeing this again. She's saying the words and I regret. And I absolutely regret. And what comes right after? That these notes came within days of my arrest. So there's I regret or I'm ashamed of or I'm embarrassed about. Let me give you some evidence and I'm embarrassed about it. But there's some evidence because it has to be true if I'm making some kind of confession of personal admission here and opening up to you. So this whole thing is evidence management, perception management and story management is all we're seeing here. I decided to do obviously a little late, but I decided to do the right thing. Let's think about this. It's the same story she did with calling the police after she encountered the saw these people attack. She didn't call the police right away. She got the letter. She didn't call the police right away. So we're seeing a very similar storyline. And if you watch the last one second of the video, the last one second, you'll see doopers delight. The left side of her face tightens up. The cheeks raise up and the lower eyelids raise. And it is the quickest micro expression I've ever, I think I've ever seen analyzing a video. I watched it a few times and I had my iPad, just like three inches from my face trying to watch it, but it's there. And she fits the sociopath criteria perfectly, except for one thing, past behavior younger than the age of 15. She hits all of these major indicators from the DSM-5, which is the psychology manual to diagnose a mental disorder. Past behavior before this incident, unless there's something we are drastic that we don't know about yet, she fits all of that. And maybe that shows us a weakness in the DSM, in the diagnostic manual for psychology. But maybe this thing is something that's going to show us that there's something else going on, which I think is borderline personality disorder. Again, I'm not making a diagnosis, nor am I qualified to do so. But I'll leave it at that. And Greg. Yeah, so here she's closing the loop. Yes, yes. Yes, yes, yes. I think she has made contact and she thinks this woman has bought into her. She's reeling her hands what she thinks. Now, if she thinks that, she clearly cannot read body language because I agree with you, Mark, right there. Disbelief is all over her face like, really? This is what you got? But she runs down this whole thing and then she does something I could not have imagined possible. She went from this chaff and redirect and all this to holy ground. We need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harm's way. She's become what I call a stancer, what we call a stancer in our true crime workshop case. Remember, stancer is a person who's going to take a holy ground stance. As God is my witness, I didn't do that. Boom, boom, boom, boom. She takes holy ground and she comes up. So now she's used stancer, trancer, romancer. She's used insulator. She hasn't used prancer yet, but she'll figure that one out yet, I'm sure, because she's got lots of strategies up in that head of hers. You notice that this is really what I think you're seeing. She does an eye block and then makes eye contact again. That's the connection. She thinks, now I've got this woman. And again, I think she's missing that this woman doesn't believe her story, but she believes that she's falling for it because it worked for her so many times before. All of us, every one of us talking to you and you included, are simply a creation of things that have been successful in the past. You get your knuckles wrapped enough times you don't do things unless you are into having your knuckles wrapped. But if you are rewarded for something, like you get candy every time you do something, it just becomes part of your repertoire. And it compounds and compounds and compounds. And to Chase's point, sometimes it compounds in very negative ways and into pathologies that maybe you wouldn't even know what all of them are. But we talk about borderline personalities, those are close to pathologies and those kinds of things. So we can't diagnose her, but what we can say is I've talked to a lot of people like her in my past and they always try something like this until you get them the point where they go, you lied to me once you bust them and you tell them something and then you use what they tell you against them. They get really, really angry usually afterward. So that's what I'm seeing here. And then I, who's next? Scott. Me, yeah. So what I'm getting out of this is as she's going along and she's trying, as she tries to keep up with these people who interview her, she tries to become that person. She reflects back. She's using the classic yes and and that's what you do in improv. No matter what somebody says, yes and and you add something to it. Right out of the gate, she says that as part of her, as part of her first answer, yes and yes. And then she starts creating again this story going along. You all have covered most just about everything I've got. But then she, but then again, the classic of falling back on religion like Mark was talking about just goes right back in. Now don't get me wrong. Like I always say, I believe in God. We're very tight, you know, and Jesus loves you, but I'm his favorite. And so as we, so as I tell you about this, that's, that's where I'm sitting on it. So as she goes in, it's the classic, I know I did wrong. Like exactly what you were saying, Mark, I know I did wrong, but now I should be forgiven because I realize my transgression. I know what I've done. I see what's happened here. That's the classic you sin and then you pay the pennants for that sin. That's what's going on. She's saying, so I'm paying that now because like, it's not going to be any big deal. That's why I'm in trouble. Shoot, they're going to figure it out because I just did this over here. It's no big deal. That's actually what I did, not that big a deal. When it's actually, she's not got a shot getting out of there. You know, we know that now, but even then you can see it on her. She's, she's really not that sure, but man, she's trying to sell that she's going to get out. But that's where we're ending up. She's showing it's the classic. I've learned my lesson and I'm not going to do that anymore because I am right and I am a good person. I just did this one thing wrong over here. So that's what I get. Yeah. I think you guys, what you just said ties together nicely because what Chase is saying, she's trading guilt. You know, she's trading down. She's giving you less, something less guiltful. And then she's trading it off saying, look, I did make a mistake and then and then giving you that guilt and saying my family doesn't deserve to be punished for this. And we'll hear that again later. Yeah. And if, if you're at all interested in what Greg was talking about for what worked for somebody in the past, and this is how all of our habits are formed, whether or not you want to go to the gym more often or eat healthier, all of those things, it happens right around this spot right here in the brain. There's a little spot called the nucleus accumbens. And the nucleus accumbens is a dopamine memorizer. It says, I did this before it worked out and I got some dopamine from that. So I'm going to force the brain to do that again. And it runs dopamine through a channel right here called the ventral tegmental pathway or the ventral tegmental area. And that goes back and forth in the limbic system and forces a cycle that even at the age of eight or nine, if a behavior worked, you're more likely to repeat it even at the age of 55 sitting in an interrogation room, you'll do the same thing that worked for you when you were young because of that little spot called the nucleus accumbens if you want to go look it up. And it doesn't matter whether that was a bad or a good thing depends on whether you perceived it as a good thing. Right. And that's why we love our phones so much because we get that feeling that searching out finding the thing and we keep going back to it and going back to it and go back to it, the like thing, all that stuff is based on what Chase was just talking about. If you're into that kind of thing again, yeah, Google that's a fantastic story. Go like what we're talking about and you'll get a reward. You ripped it up. Yes. Didn't you think it might be important to save it to show the cops and the detectives? In fact, I am still being threatened by these two people who allegedly committed this crime. Yes. And I absolutely regret that these notes came within days of my arrest. And I think still that I was just very scared for my family. And it's only now that I'm speaking out about this because I just need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harm's way because I decided to do obviously a little late but I decided to do the right thing and tell what I knew. Because by, you know, the reason I'm sitting here is because I didn't do the right thing. It's because I didn't go to the police right away. I didn't call 911 right away. You know, I didn't go to a neighbor's house. Why didn't you apologize to them? I did apologize to them. You never said I'm sorry. I said that I'm sorry, that I'll never be able to make up for what I did and that I can never replace their loss. But you didn't use the word I'm sorry. Well then I'm sorry I didn't say that because certainly I am sorry. I think in a sense the words I'm sorry just seem meaningless, especially since nobody believes what I'm saying anyway. You said it right there. No one believes a word out of your mouth. Why do you keep talking? Well, because I know that I'm not just, I've lied before that doesn't mean that I'm a liar by definition, by character. What do you think of this jury? It's pretty clear they don't think too much of you. I wonder what you think of them. I don't know. I feel a little betrayed by them. I don't dislike them. I just was really hoping that they would see things for what they are and I don't feel that they did. To a lot of people they think this switch from I want to die to now I want to live is just another lie from Jodie Arias. Well, I don't know what that means. Was I lying when I said I want to die or was I lying when I say please spare my life? Whatever happens I'm just going to take it and deal with it. You said today you want to give Travis's family closure. You know they want you dead. So why don't you give them that closure? Well, what do you mean by that? Why don't I kill myself? Is that what you're asking? No, why don't you accept the fate of the death penalty? If you know that's what they want. If you truly care about their closure. Well, I've caused them a lot of pain. I've caused my family a lot of pain. And I think that by asking for death I'm only going to cause more pain to my family. If you were on that jury and you had heard what they have heard would you kill you? I don't believe in capital punishment. So the answer would be no. For now Arias is sticking by that story the jury didn't buy. That she's an abused woman who killed in self-defense when Alexander lunged at her from his shower. So you really are never going to tell the truth about what went down in that bathroom? I don't know what you mean by that because I've told the truth. I didn't know that you were a hater when you came to interview me. And that was about as angry as Arias got. She stayed composed throughout if not occasionally smug. Mark, why don't you start us off? Yeah, so negotiating constantly and negotiating around ideas. Well, so here's the main negotiation there. Well, was the thing I said the truth, a lie was the lie that I said now the truth. Was I lying when I said I want to die or was I lying when I say please spare my life, you know. So here's what society does. Society makes a decision around what truth and lies are. Now that doesn't mean society is correct because you'll go to another society and they'll think the truth that society has is a lie. But everybody who decides to be in one society signs up to the consistent idea of the truth and the lies. What she does is mess around with that and say my truth might be lies and my lies might be truth and they're going to change second to second. So that is what we call antisocial. And from that very moment, what I would suggest is it's very clear you now have somebody with an antisocial disorder because if you're not prepared to say that something is true and something is a lie and keep it solid enough so others could join in with you on that, then you can't be a part of society. You don't have a brain that's going to work well. It's always going to be an outsider. And if you're not able to see that for yourself, you're going to have an antisocial disorder and you're not going to know. So the rest of the universe, the rest of the world won't work like you work and you might start attacking it in quite an aggressive way. So there, that's what I've got to say. It's clear from that antisocial behavioural disorder. All right, Greg, what do you think? Yeah, so let's just start with the basic definition of liar because she's not one. She told us, we'll post this up, we'll put it up. It's a basic definition and it simply says one who tells lies. I've lied before. That doesn't mean that I'm a liar by definition, by character. What exactly are you? And to your point, Mark, she's going to undermine the very foundation of how we define what something is. She is a, in this alone, she's a show horse for liars. She is probably the best I've ever seen. And I'm going to run through it again. Stancer, take holy ground, stand up and make a hard statement that I support this and I support that. I don't believe in the death penalty. I don't believe in capital punishment. I'm a good person. So never mind, it applies to me. Transer, you know, in this case, she breaks high contact, tries to get away for a minute. That's her escape. It doesn't work. She goes to romance her. She tries to connect him a little bit. That doesn't work. She chaffs and redirects and starts puking information with no value. And then finally, she wraps it all up by using circular logic to take you off of whatever it is. And if you don't understand the concept of circular logic, if A, then B, then C, then D, then E, then F. If A, then A. Oh, wait, wait. No, if B, then A. They just change the rules of the conversation as they go. And there's no logic to it. If you're talking to somebody and you feel like, what the hell are we talking about? You're probably talking to somebody who's using circular logic. And it's a great deceptive technique that a lot of people use. She's a show horse for liars in this case. For me, she illustrates everything I think of liars. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, we have Transer, Prancer, Donner, and Blitzen. And Santa, I think. And all of them are using digital flexion. We're showing you the page. One thing we're seeing in particular here is that if you watch this video and then just watch the other video of her, that's different people. Those are two completely different people there. Because in this little section, one, the interviewer is kind of an he's looking at her with contempt. He's speaking with contempt. And she's kind of, she can't match that, but she matches the speed, the cadence and tone of what he's saying. And she's doing something called, I think I call this social lawyering, where she's negotiating and saying, well, this doesn't mean this unless this. So saying, if you believe this, then you have to believe this other idea. And you can hear this little innocence regression, but she's still matching. She starts all of her answers almost with the word well, well, well, well, well. And then you'll hear the answer. And the well is probably something she learned from a relative, a teacher, but it's also a device to buy some time. While you see her eyes go down, she's rehearsing what she's going to say. Scott. All right. I think what's happening here, I don't think she's smart enough to understand this guy's being, is trying to turn the heat up on her. And I think she's just answering the questions and being, because if he didn't have that look on his face and he didn't have that tone in his voice, she would realize what's going on. If he came in frown and was like in an attack mode, but going back from the first video, all she's doing is reflecting back what she's saying and hearing. And that's what she's doing. I don't think she's smart enough to realize this guy's trying, he's poking on her, trying to get her to get PO'd. So I think that's, because when they talk about, she says, do you mean kill myself? Nobody would answer it like that. She's not paying attention with the front part of her brain. She's paying attention to the, to the reflective. She's paying attention to her mirror neurons, what she's seeing, what she's not paying attention to those, obviously. But she's, all she's doing, just reflecting what she's saying and hearing from tone and the way it looks. That's, that's what I'm seeing here. Because nothing she really says is valid or has any validity to it whatsoever. It's just all, whatever she thinks he wants to hear. And, and you're right, Chase. It's a different person. We're looking at a completely, entirely different person here. It's got your hair. Yeah. Where it's bizarre. And she, You're a hater. Yeah. She doesn't realize this guy is trying to heat her up. That's, that's the, that's the scary part at that point. That shows, for me it shows. So how, how smart she isn't, even though she thinks she's real. I think some of that as her, she may realize it, but I think it's overlapped by her enjoyment of the attention and, and celebrity that she's experiencing with all. That makes sense. She's still getting what she needs in that. Remember, we're just talking about this, that layering. She's getting that dopamine reward because she's working, whatever it is, she's doing. And that channel is getting it. She's starting to get hot with him right there when she said, I know you're a hater. That's her trying to be snarky. And she's getting a reward for that. I'm guaranteeing you that the guy she allegedly or was convicted of stabbing 20 plus times, cutting his throat and shooting him. Probably saw her wind up a little bit like that before she went absolutely bonkers and went from supplicant to explosive. So. Yeah. He was trying to break up with her. Isn't that right? You know what the story was? Yeah. Well, I mean, the story's really complex. Guys who know the real story, do you want to do a four line narrative in the comments? That'd be a great place for it because I think she flew somewhere, rented a car, bought a bunch of gas so you couldn't tell that she was driving cross country by credit card records. She's all kinds of stuff. She did like I heard a really great line from a prosecutor last night. She did all the true crime stuff right. She just didn't do the crime right. Right. Why didn't you apologize to them? I did apologize to them. You never said I'm sorry. I said that I'm sorry, that I'll never be able to make up for what I did and that I can never replace their loss. But you didn't use the word I'm sorry. Well, then I'm sorry I didn't say that because certainly I am sorry. I think in a sense, the words I'm sorry just seem meaningless, especially since nobody believes what I'm saying. Anyway, You said it right there, no one believes a word out of your mouth. Why do you keep talking? Well, because I know that I'm not just, I've lied before that doesn't mean that I'm a liar by definition, by character. What do you think of this jury? It's pretty clear they don't think too much of you. I wonder what you think of them. I don't know. I feel I feel a little betrayed by them. I don't dislike them. I just was really hoping that they would see things for what they are. And I don't feel that they did. To a lot of people, they think this switch from I want to die to now I want to live is just another lie from Jody Arias. Well, I don't know what that means. Was I lying when I said I want to die or was I lying when I say please spare my life? Whatever happens, I'm just going to take it and deal with it. You said today you want to give Travis's family closure. You know they want you dead. So why don't you give them that closure? Well, what do you mean by that? Why don't I kill myself? Is that what you're asking? No, why don't you accept the fate of the death penalty? If you know that's what they want. If you truly care about their closure. Well, I've caused them a lot of pain. I've caused my family a lot of pain. And I think that by asking for death I'm only going to cause more pain to my family. If you were on that jury and you had heard what they have heard, would you kill you? I don't believe in capital punishment. So the answer would be no. For now Arias is sticking by that story. The jury didn't buy that she's an abused woman who killed in self defense when Alexander lunged at her from his shower. So you really are never going to tell the truth about what went down in that bathroom? I don't know what you mean by that because I've told the truth. Okay. I didn't know that you were a hater when you came to interview me. And that was about as angry as Arias got. She stayed composed throughout if not occasionally smug.