 Our second speaker is Kathy McMahon from St. Memorial Library, and she's the Youth Services Manager at that library, which is in Papillion, Nebraska. Kathy's going to present today, teens, gotta love them, love that title. Kathy will turn you on to great ideas for structuring an exciting teen advisory group. She will show you what it looks like and what her library considers a successful teen program, which might be different than you think. Kathy will also share ideas on how to create a successful summer reading program. Let's give a warm welcome to Kathy. Hi. This kind of freaks me out. Hang on. I only have just a little. I'm going to have to walk a little bit, okay? So I'll come back every so often. So you just hang up. Okay. Here we go. I am the Youth Services Manager sometimes. Excuse me. This is Chris. Wait, wait. No, no, no. I can't hear me. You need to stay in front of the camera near the microphone because nobody else can hear you. You're going to have to stay right there. I'm sorry. Hey. Yeah. The microphone can't pick you up if you move it. Oh, wait. I missed. By the way, that happened. Oh, you didn't lay your paper there. Truly, Kathy. You'll be fine. Okay. Here we go. Thanks, Jake. Jake, it's hard. It's hard for me to do what I'm told. I am the Youth Services Manager at Sump. I have been there for three years previous to that. I was in Fremont for two years and five months or six months, something like that. My teen programs run way differently than even Laura's does or Jake's does or anybody's does. I don't do programming as you guys think it is. I do. My programs are all built on volunteer opportunities that they can do. When I started this position three years ago, I inherited four teens, one that could draw amazing, two that only wanted to play card games, and one that kind of had an attitude. Well, the one that had an attitude left probably two weeks after I started because I have an attitude, too, and she had an attitude, and our attitudes didn't mesh well. So she's gone, Hannah's gone, and is now in college. My two that wanted to play card games, I didn't quite understand why they wanted to do this. We had lots of conversations, and it was just some place for them to go after school to be comfortable, and so the card game thing went away, and then the graphic artist girl that I had still did my bulletin boards and still kind of hung around with me after school, but Tony had a, and I love Tony, Tony had a very rigid, I met it, she meets with them, she met with them on Mondays at four o'clock for only one hour, and they had an agenda, and I don't roll like that, so it was really hard for me to understand why these kids would come in every Monday, and so I decided to restructure it, so fit my lifestyle and my, the way I operate, so I said to them, I said, I'm not going to be pulled off the floor after school when we do, I'm not kidding you, hundreds of readers advisory questions after school every day, so we're going to have to make this work for both of us, so I started recruiting kids that were there at the library after school to become my team volunteers, and those four unfortunately all kind of drifted away because they didn't like how I did things, and that was fine, they were old enough to get jobs and do that kind of stuff, so that worked well, so I started recruiting my own volunteers, and it worked really well because I literally would walk up to a table of kids after school and say, hey, you need to work for me, you need to come over and cut some stuff, and you need to shelve some books, and you need to do this, and you know 50 percent of what I asked came, and it worked really well, well then I got too many and I didn't know what to do with them, so I had to, you know, relax a little bit and and not have them have so many of them, so I have now structured it in three years to, I have, and I even wrote down my numbers, I have 16 volunteers per week that come every day after school, I have a group that come on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, I have none that come on Friday because most of the time they're picked up right after school and that drop, you know, don't walk down to the library because it's a weekend, and then I also have 70 summer readings volunteers, which are 70 different ones than the 16s that I have, and I'll talk about that in just a minute. So my 16 kids come down, they check in, there's a little box, they hit the login, I have told them several times, several hundred times, that if they want me to write a recommendation for them on the hours that they serve and what they've done for me, they have to keep track of that. I'm not their mama, and I'm not their housekeeper, so they have to do this stuff themselves. Some of them are really good about it, some of them have come to me later on and said, well I don't know how many hours I worked, and I pretty much tell them, you got so sad. I'm not the keeper of the books, I'm not keeping track of their hours, they're old enough to do this. So on Mondays I have kids that can come in, that will come in, and some of them only want a shelf, some of them only want to cut crafts, some of them only want to dust. So my point of this is, I find the activity or the job or the task, whatever word you want to use, to fit the kid, to fit the team. I have been very honest with them and have said, if you don't like to cut, don't cut my crafts, because I am crazy about how nice my stuff looks and has to be on the line, and I'm kind of insane about that. So if you don't cut well, please don't say you want to cut crafts, because you'll butcher it and I'll be mad and I'll have to make more copies and run more copies, and that'll make me crazy. And you don't want to do that. So don't cut if you don't want to cut. If you only like to dust or you only like to write books down with antibacterial wipes, okay, that's what you can do. I structure my team program totally different than most team librarians do. Mine is not about having all these clubs and all of this fun stuff, mine is all about service, all about volunteering, all about giving back to your community and your library, specifically your library. Tons of them are involved in sports, and so we work around that. Tuesday I have a girl that comes in and only wants to put out my new materials. So I hold the cart back and she puts out my new materials and makes beautiful displays. Has time to do it, does a much better job than I would take time to do. Wednesday I have nine girls that roll in, just happens to be all girls on Wednesdays, and three of them only want to cut, and the rest want to do physical things in the department. So I have had to ask my director for permission for them to be in my back office. If you've ever been to something, I sit at the front at a desk in the youth services department, but all my stuff is in the back room. And so they can work back there, and they can stamp and sticker and label and do whatever it is they need to do, stuff bags, count things, whatever it is. And so I have nine of those that come in on Wednesday, and they are the most loyal nine I have. They will come in during breaks, like Christmas break, and Easter break, and spring break, and they'll come in. And what I like about my teens, there's several things, but what I really like is they own their relationship with me. They're very responsible, and they're sassy and they're fun, and they're teens, but they really want to be there, or they wouldn't be there, because I'm not giving them anything in return. I'm not giving them a club of any kind, or after school, whatever you want to call it. I don't do that. That's not how I roll, so that would be very hard for me to facilitate. Twice a year I give them a pizza party. We stay in the library after hours, and we have pizza, and we watch movies, and we inevitably watch movies. Kathy wants to see that hasn't watched, so we watched Iron Man and Sherlock Holmes, and they didn't fuss. They didn't fuss at all. Last March, a couple of weeks ago, we had one night, and we watched Disney movies. We watched four Disney movies, and four Disney movies I had not seen. I'm not a movie watcher, but they never fuss, and that is to thank them for working for me for all year, for all school year, and then at the end of the summer, at the end of my teen program this summer, we will have a movie night, where we'll have pizza brought in, and food, like lots of food, and we'll watch movies, and that's the only two programs I do for my teens. The rest is all about what you can do for me, and what I can get out of you is truly what it is. So when they come in after school, a week after week after week after week, and have been doing this for three years, they obviously want to be there. There's obviously some things that they're getting out of it, so for this presentation, I asked them, and when I took two of my teens to Legislative Day, I told them, just the blanket statement, you just say, do whatever Kathy tells you to do, and you'll be fine, and that's all you have to say to these adults that come up and shake your hand, because they got awards for being volunteers through Legislative Day, and so we joke about that, but they really, truly honestly want to be there, or they wouldn't be doing this for three years, and not expecting anything out of it. It's usually what's in it for me, mentality, and that's not how these kids work, and so my teen program rolls really well, I think. So after they come in, and after they get settled, and they do their job, they consistently ask for more things to do, and I think that's how I've grown my program, you know, it's not at all stagnant. It is, I've got new teens all the time, I have new applications that parents are turning in, it's not a, it's not a, I have a core group of TAB kids that I'll talk about, but my teen volunteers after school are growing all the time, because I think they feel welcome, and I advocate for teens a lot, as we all should do. They all have something to offer. We just need to figure out what that is with what we have that needs to be done, and we put those two things together, and I think it works really well. I know a lot of libraries do, you know, host those clubs and stuff, and that just does not, I have tried several times to have a cooking club, and a book club, and you know, you name it, I've tried it, gaming, and all sorts of stuff, and my teens that I'm working with do not want that, and they've said, Kathy, don't waste your money on that, don't ask for funds for that, let me just come in and work for you. So my teen program looks, and smells, and tastes way different than most teen programs do. When we get to summertime, I host it a little bit differently. I do a little bit differently than I do in the summertime. They have to come to a mandatory orientation, usually in May, and they have to hear about my dress code, they have to hear about my expectations, they have to hear about what my director expects out of them, they usually have a job to do when they get there, stamping the coupons or whatever. So with my summertime, with my kids in the summertime, they fill out an application, I don't turn anybody away, in the school year I do, when I've got my fill of what I need after school, I say, why don't you contact me in the summer? But my summertime, I'll take them off. So last year I went and talked to two of the middle school, two of the grade schools, the sixth graders, and asked them to come and be my teen volunteers to build my core group of kids for after school and that was probably one of my biggest mistakes of my career because I had thousands of kids, I had hundreds of kids from two big schools and I took them all. We buy t-shirts for the kids to walk in the parade, they're allowed to walk in the parade if they work for me and so I had to hurry up and call up, start and order several hundred more t-shirts, I think every teen in Pavilion probably has that beneath the surface black t-shirt that we have last year. Yeah, because I had to buy a lot of those. So they'll come in and I run my summer part where they have to sign up for a two-hour shift. My after school kids can kind of roll in when they're done with school and done with their activity or their homework or whatever. So that's a little less structured, my summer is structured like crazy. They start at nine, they have a two-hour shift from nine to 11, 11 to one, one, three, three to five, and five to seven, 30. If you sign up for that shift unless you're dead or I hear from your parent, you by God better be there because I'm counting on you to to man that table, to man our reading table. I usually pick my newbies for that, the new seventh graders going in because they can handle passing out the reading logs and they can handle giving the stuff away. The ones that have been there now for three years will help me run my programming. So they'll know how to set up my tables in my kid's room, they'll know how to go get stuff in the back office to pull out or whatever. They're extremely good at alphabetizing and shelving and straightening my department. Last summer we had a daycare come in and that was another mistake of my career. They came in every Wednesday after we had our big presenters and there was 40 of them and one of me and they probably pulled every book I had in my EU services department off the shelf every week. So I had to figure out how to get those stuff back on there. It was trashed but they just didn't understand the whole process of once you're done with the book, make a pile instead of just leaving it everywhere. So my teens, the ones that I had taught how to shelve, had to train how to shelve, reshelved all of that stuff every Wednesday and we had carts and carts and carts of stuff so my kids can alphabetize like most master's librarians because they did a really good job with that. So I now have, I will have 70 plus summer reading volunteers. If you work six hours for me during the summertime, which is the first three weeks in June, you earn your t-shirt and then you are allowed to walk in the parade with a parental permission slip. When we walk in the parade they carry big huge inflatable fun toys from knobbies and they throw stuff and we don't throw candy. We're not allowed to in Pavilion throw candy. But we can't, but other places can. So we have partnered with, our director Robin has partnered with the Lions Club and we give away books and so we give books to all the kids and all of my teens have stamped those books that have said donation from blah blah blah so it's really, they really, they really want to walk in that parade because you know it's the biggest parade in the state I believe and it's huge. So everybody's there, their parents or grandparents or aunts or uncles, every kid in school is there so the parade is a big deal in Pavilion. So once we get the parade all done we kind of settle into a routine of your schedule and what you need to do and then we kind of branch off into if you're kind of tired of sitting at the table I'll show you how to do something else if you're interested. I've had several kids say I really just want to read. So I said well then this sitting at the table sitting at the reading table is the job for you because if there's not a kid standing there needing a reading log or needing you know a trinket you can read all you want and that has been the best, that has been the the nicest thing for me to see is because they are reading, they're they're literally going to the shelves and they'll say well what have you read and so we'll have you know discussion great book discussions on stuff that I probably never would have talked about had they not been in the library you know that they that we haven't made that connection or made that relationship. I want to ask you some questions. How many of you actually have team groups, team tab groups in your library and how many do you have? Where are you at? Oh yeah okay yeah Sarah and and that's a core group that you have that meets once a month or is this just kids that come in okay anybody else? Yeah he does yeah he totally rocks that. My question to you and if you if you take nothing else away from this today I think that you need to think about what you want your teams to accomplish. Do you want them to feel growth and do you want them to feel comfortable and do you want them to you know grow with you and learn with you and and and become an advocate for the library because there's there's some of our best. What do you want to ask yourself what you want your teams to accomplish? I can tell you very vividly very blatantly what I need my teams to do but what I get back from my teams is way more relationship-wise than what I give them. I give them you know five or six minutes hey how was your day? How's that boy you like blah blah blah that kind of stuff you know let me see your texts because they always show me their texts of when they're talking to some boy or some new boy you know which is kind of interesting the way they chat now I'm like well I said did your mom know what this is? Because you know I'm pretty open person but oh I wouldn't want my daughter talking that way but anyway so I digress um so I want you to think about that so if you only need four teams to do a job then don't go out and get 60 kids because it's the whatever project you have or whatever event you want to do is going to fail because you just got too much too much help too many you know too many cooks in the kitchen kind of thing. My next question was is you need to make sure that you're or my next statement is you need to make sure your volunteers fulfill a need for them just to come in and hang out is not a need that's not a need on your part that's not a need on their part if they're coming to use the library after school to study that's the need you see do you see where I'm going with this my teams fulfill thousands of needs every single day when they roll in yesterday I was going to a ribbon cutting down in downtown Papillion and six of the nine that came in had already had the stuff set up was doing my project when I got back they already knew so they knew the need that I had and they fulfill a need because I have stuff to do and it's only one of me and it's you know 17 of them 16 of them a week so they need to they know what they need to do they know to fill the slots in the picture books they know to put the working readers out they know to straighten the magazines they know they know to make my department look pretty you know for the afternoon after we've had several hundred kids in there during the day for our morning programming so no you're mine I own them um and then the next the next part I want to talk about is um I think you need to understand um what you're giving to them is much more emotionally what they need than what you probably realize um all of my kids will tell me and they'll tell you if you're ever came to the library and ask them they'll tell you that Kathy is non-threatening Kathy doesn't hold a curfew over my head Kathy isn't grading me so I'm a non-threatening adult that gives them you know gives them five minutes of my day or 10 minutes of my day and they get back so much because I treat them with respect I have extremely high expectations of my teens and I have asked a few um three and three years one a year about um to not come back and I've had conversations with moms on the phone my director knows all of this this is not like under the table not you know it's I've worked with them worked with them I'll tell you a story I had a girl from last September a year ago till this January so you know a little over a year been telling her parents that she had been coming to my library and working I didn't know the girl didn't know her name didn't know what she looked like so the dad walked in one day and said you know I'm here to pick up my daughter and I'm like okay you know I'm on the library I don't dare do what you want to do you know um and he says no Sammy's Sammy's volunteering for you and I said I don't have any Sammy that volunteers for me and the look on his face was priceless because guess what he's got a lot more issues than I do if Sammy not volunteering he's got to figure out where his kids been for the last year and several months um so it got to me it was it was ziki it was sad she didn't she didn't know how to approach me she had told her parents that she had been volunteering for Kathy well my name's all over that you know all over the use services department if you that's easy to pick up that's an easy thing to figure out um and so we had to call in we sat in the director's office and we had a chat with expectations and lying and all of that stuff um she had to write a letter of apology her parents made her do that um the dad was all on board about making her own this the mom not so much so we struggled she struggled at home she struggled in school for a while with it and I just told her I said this is on you I would have loved to have had you at be a volunteer after school but when you don't come up to me and say that you want to be a volunteer and I don't have a form filled out you know that the parents signed off on that they know that the kids going to be there Mondays from 3 30 to 4 30 I don't know what to do about that that's not my problem I mean it's not on me and she's like well I didn't I didn't know how to approach you and I'm like are you kidding me I'm the most approachable person there is so that's not no I wouldn't I wouldn't let her use that as an excuse and she struggled for a while and they made her come in um over the summer um and work several hours and it was brutal so my next thing is don't take them if they don't want to be there because it was really hard it was hard on her it was hard on me it was hard on her parents I felt really bad for her parents um excuse after excuse after excuse and that wasn't what she needed to know she needed to own that she had made a mistake apologize and then we needed to move on and we could never get to that move on point so she started at eighth grade and really struggled with even coming into the library after school and was embarrassed and she learned a life lesson I think I felt really bad for her and I felt really bad for her folks but she's the one that did it to herself so she needed to you know it was tough that was that's been my worst experience and that's not even that bad so you know always good I think in my life so ways they can participate I have two girls that come in on Wednesdays and build my book carts you know we use Baker and Taylor pretty much exclusively and so I go through all the catalogs and I circle everything and they do all my data entry which saves me hours at my desk um a lot of cutting a lot of um shelving a lot of straightening um a lot of just maintenance of my department I think the best part of all of this has been the relationships that they have built through me I'll tell you another story and then I'll probably be just pretty close to being done um except I have something I want to read to you um one of we have we hosted um we're one of the host sites for UNO's College of Education and we have students that come in every semester and observe what a what a public librarian does and a story timer and adventure program and I had one of the times they could sign up for was one of my Saturday literacy events so I had six UNO students that Saturday and then I had 17 teens come in and they man the stations you know princess and pirate bowling and princess and pirate snack and yeah we we do it every month it just changes but not the activities um so I had my team set up the stations princess and pirate obstacle course and so yeah it's pretty lame but it works um and it works really well because it runs itself now so so my teams are doing all of this and one of the UNO students is in the craft room and if you've been to something I have a blast in room that's really nice and that's where we do our crafts and our snacks um and they're they're literally doing their own thing the UNO students are doing what they're what they were told to do and what they're supposed to do and and um one of the moms came a week later of my teams and said do you realize the impact that you have on kids and I said yeah sometimes it's not so good but okay sometimes I probably have to rain back my emotions a little bit but um she said no one of the UNO students and this is kind of this is kind of kind of makes me cry a little bit one of the UNO students had told the girl now she's 13 just in middle school how important college is and because alley was kind of leaning towards you know I didn't know if I wanted to go to college this UNO student because we collaborative worked with another you know entity made alley decide that maybe college is not a bad thing maybe grades are something I need to work for that would never have happened if I had not had the perfect storm if I had not had the teams and the UNO students and a literacy event all at once so that stuff is pretty that stuff is kind of what defines us as librarians I think how we can put people together and the right things together at the right time that's pretty much pretty much what defines us I want to read something to you that I found um a lot of people use those 40 developmental assets um I use bits and pieces of them um and I believe in some of them and I don't believe in others but but I found this on their website I think this is important kind of to describe how I feel my teams are it says everyone agrees that relationships matter but what is it about relationships that matter why are some relationships transformative for young people's development and success while others have little if any impact how can we articulate and measure the intangible dimensions of relationships so they can become both credible and actionable in the realms of policy and practice I think that team talking to that adult at that time drives home this point it says uh the search institute and others have shown that the number of intense intensity of high quality relationships in the young people's lives is linked to a broad range of positive outcomes including increased student engagement improved academic motivation better grades higher aspirations for the future civic engagement and more for participation in college preparatory classes and activities with a variety of other individual outcomes this is the best sentence of the whole paragraph we also know that high quality relationships are characterized by caring supportive meaningful reciprocal and resulting in a young people's sense of agency belonging and competence and I think that that that literally drives home um kind of defines my my teams we get they give to us we give to them we give to them in such small measures that it's really hard to to know if we've made a difference or if it's if it's at all swayed them one way or another and then you know it's one of those mastercard moments where it's priceless and everything fit together really well and and don't give up on your teams if you have four you have more I mean that's four than you had before so and I started with four and now I have 16 regular ones my tab group is different now my tab group I run the first Thursday night of the month I have 27 of them that will come crazy come they and they don't even want food they just want to come and hang out the library talk about books talk about the next literacy event they make fun of my literacy events now oh I suppose we're going to do Mickey Mouse bowling or oh I you know and it gets I'm like okay if you guys can come up with something better match yourself out so you know I think my stuff's pretty good so you know whatever but um so they'll they'll set that up they'll get that ready for me they'll roll in on a Saturday morning what's really funny is when we have a literacy event Mary Maddachewski my assistant will read the stories and then we kind of just go off and you know talk to the parents and stuff and every one of those parents will tell those teens how should this is really nice that you're here on a Saturday morning at 10 o'clock and helping Kathy and Miss Mary out and blah blah blah so the relationships that we build with those teens are huge I can't tell you the impact that we that we have made or that that is is important to them um other than just sharing the stories with you um do you guys have any questions I'm kind of done early but that's okay no questions maybe it's not okay um thank you Nancy I'm Stephanie I have to go over to Needs library and I've got it a little over a year ago now um and Needs is a very very small town I'm just a little over 500 people yeah and I mean my summer reading program last year the first one that I did um I was really amazed I had 44 kids um it was awesome and we have 44 and like one baby boy sorry just I just had to put that out there so our little takeout yeah that's it yeah that's amazing and we just told the older teens and the teens to come in and you what would you recommend to me just to try and you've gone to the schools and you've asked them to be an active member of your library I have done that yeah um I think you have to I think this will be my second annual next good turn out I want to come to that last year I had 16 girls come yeah but and so then we talk during fashion learning goes because my girlfriend that manages this fashion place in three months brings a whole bunch of clothes and we hang them up on the book racks and you know because I'm hoping that it doesn't close they also see books that's that's too much to go for and she sold out 300 dollars for the clothes that they just she'll cut it from the bottom I mean they're they can tie them on or whenever they don't have anything but she sold out so you give me the phone and can you call I'll come in if you need some help you know with just three times or like that try to call and I have nothing I'm just going to really oh I don't oh yeah so I mean well and I don't and I don't take no for an answer so I just kept asking those tables of kids after school I just kept saying you guys just probably need to work for me take this application home to your parents dude you know I just I'm pushy that way so I don't you know I don't know I think you have to keep trying I think you have to keep keep working at it because I think it will turn around you know I when I when those four left when I first started I kind of thought man I'm host the bulletin boards and cutting stuff I mean the the physical what we call grunt work that that we don't have time to do and now they've taken over all of that but it's taken me three years to get it there so don't give up that's my free advice don't give up yeah yeah do you do you have a policy that says that your volunteers can only be a certain age though no because mine oh okay so they can be fifth graders or sixth graders yeah right because now during the summer reading camp our we do ours we call it a summer reading camp and we have every summer that's a lot of work well actually it's not too much really um one special ed teachers and the high school comes and my friends group pays her a hundred dollars to come for the week and I'll do it for 75 just joking graders that helped with the preschool age kids once the summer reading was done again I couldn't come and help me maybe they don't relate library with volunteering with something other than summer reading maybe they only put it together with summer reading because you know my 70 that come in the summertime are not the same ones I have all year they put it together they they think of it differently like and a lot of them to be honest when I started three years ago there a lot of them was like my mom's making me do this and I'd say oh then you need to be you need to want to be here bud or it's not going to work and you know so maybe they don't put together year-round I don't know Lance I don't I don't really know the answer that just sweet I'm done I'm done my job mm-hmm absolutely yeah yeah and even if you get two or three right you don't want 70 well no I mean yeah exactly yeah I yeah that's what I would try but so I do no our sometimes I don't really know how to answer that um I do a book club at our alternative high school and we tried a couple of years ago to build an ambassador program to where they would come in and be able to leave the building and come in and work for me for an hour or so and we never could get the logistics figured out of how they were to travel you know because these kids are at risk and if they're out of the building they may not come to the library once they're out of the building they may go home or somewhere um so we are still we are still working on that we do take my adult services person does take the court ordered ones but they are adults um we don't we don't dabble in that much but I don't I don't know how much of that we have um I mean there are not a kids in the building there's no doubt about it but I don't know I don't know how much they what they do within the schools to keep to keep them busy there does that make sense I don't yeah I've had a couple of them um and one of he was so cute he tried so hard well you can't wear your phones you know you can't be you know you have to be working you know we can't wear your phone so I was today but and he inevitably stick one in and stand we have one place where our camera doesn't show you stand in that corner you know buddy you got a great job you got to go so I had to call the principal and he just didn't he just he didn't want to be there he was forced to be there he didn't understand why he couldn't be jammed to his music and and you know and all we had him do was dust and he couldn't even do that so it was like dang you know so I don't I don't we don't no and he did not want to be there you know my kids want to be there I mean my my teens will tell you they'll walk I told somebody at this ribbon cutting yesterday they'd walk across across some hot coals buck naked for me if I asked them to because they like me and I like them and I and I push for services for them and you know so I do I love I love those kids and if I had a choice between I probably shouldn't put this out publicly but I had a choice between doing the toddler time and a teen program I pick a teen program every single time teens are kind of where my heart is and where my passion is I just I have to do the other ones too and I like the other ones it's just teens are fun teens are you never know what you're going to get you never know what's going to come out of their mouth what's on their phone or you know that's been an eye-opening experience so but but they you know they you know and I have the moms come in and thank me for you know having them hang out with me after school and I think they say oh I just hang out with Kathy they work they don't just come in and stand at my desk for two hours on that time for that so you know we work and talk at the same time you know so anything else oh my have to start and they oh repeat the question sorry sorry uh what was your question oh what age do I start what age do I start I am not good at this technology so uh mine have to be going into seventh grade that's the only criteria I have they have to be going into seventh grade so so I get 12 year olds I have two or 18 year olds you know they roll in for special projects I have two that will come in every fourth Thursday of the month and do my bulletin boards because they're big they're tall kids and they can climb up on my you know on my stuff and I don't have to worry about them falling off or you know yeah so yeah I don't think so I think it's okay works for me but I don't know I don't have any kids so yeah I think Charles pretty pretty normal yeah do you does she he or she does he want to come volunteer you're in Bellevue you're close he totally should be working for me um anything else okay thank you thank you for your time