 I think the gap that I see is that those clients may just be transacting or doing one thing with them, but they're not really creating necessarily lasting relationships, so I believe in the customer for life. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams alongside my co-host, Beth Popnikolov, and today we're going to be talking about digital marketing, lead generation, data, the works. It's going to be an awesome show. We are already geeking out about all of the great data discussions that we're going to bring to you with our guests today. We're really excited to welcome Dan Donahue. He is the director of sales and marketing at Craftmaster Hardware, and he has got some really hot takes on manufacturers and how they're handling data. Dan, welcome to the show. Thank you, Beth and Zach. Thanks for inviting me. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about this topic. It's a pet project of mine. So before we dive in, why don't you take a couple minutes, introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them who you are, what you do, and a little bit about your organization as well. Yeah, sure. So I'm Dan Donahue, director of sales and marketing here. We are a distributor in the door security hardware business, and we're based in New Jersey. We have another location in Maryland. We have two online platforms for e-commerce. We have CraftmasterHardware.com and TailorSecurity.com. Craftmaster serves more of the institutional locksmith, hospitals, corrections, facilities, government. Tailor Security has more of a government and that got us into the end user and builders market for residential hardware. That's great. And so, Dan, for our listeners, you primarily sell to businesses. Is that correct? Are you selling to homeowners a bit there too? We do a little bit of a homeowner business through the TailorSecurity.com. So brands like MTech, Baldwin, Quickset, things like that. Okay. And talk us through your digital marketing efforts. What are you guys doing? What's working? What's not working? Give us a 30,000 view. Yeah, sure. So going back about five years, so CraftmasterHardware was acquired by Private Equity in 2015. And one of their big opportunities I saw was digital marketing. And we started to build this site around our historical customer base, looking to expand the product offerings that we had, which were zero. We had no online presence at that time. And to generate a process to create new leads and new business. And five years ago, when we were talking to manufacturers about gathering this information, there really wasn't a whole lot there. It was a difficult situation. So we really had to build it all ourselves with what we had, cut, copy, paste, and just loaded ourselves. We're still doing some of that to some degree, out of necessity. But we've grown that business significantly. We think it's a good contributor to us. And it's not always just the online transaction. So many leads come to us that need a person. We call our philosophy high tech high touch. Right? So there's some complexity around buying a lock. Before I got in the industry, okay, it's a lock. I didn't think much of it. No, there's a lot that can go wrong. So we need that sales rep to intervene, kind of coach that customer, make sure they're getting the right thing. And from there, you know, we've grown the business with that strategy. Can you talk us through what setting up that strategy looked like? What conversations did you have? What outcomes were you looking for? And what did you put in place? Yes. So what we had to do was look at our, our product offerings, right? And what was going to be the items most likely to be purchased online, what we had existing relationships with manufacturers. And then we had to set up a E blast campaign. Many of our customers had no idea we carried as much as we carry. So we really had to do an education process to the base that, hey, you may just buy one or two things from us, but we carry 150 plus lines of product right now. So that helped us to expand within our current clients, gain new clients from all these new products we started to add on and become visible. I always say, hey, we're a business, let's be in the hardware business. Let's not just not have half of it. And look, I know a big part of that is these Google searches, right? So the SEO component of this, you know, how to be built properly. So we've got a digital marketing expert who's been able to, you know, set all that up correctly. And from there, we've taken off. Yeah. When you're looking at your, how you guys are driving leads online, are your manufacturing partners, are they delivering any leads to you as well? Or are you all, you know, responsible for all that business on your own? No, they don't send us any leads. So we have a lead generation process in place. So we have a couple of ways we get the clients to engage with us and to capture their information. So it's things like a catalog request. Maybe you want to request a question about our services. We have chat functionality that we capture some of the customer's data. And even just process ordering. So we capture the email address and then that customer is then put into our monthly marketing program. So they'll get something from us, you know, we do once a week, you know, we were promoting something. And, you know, from there, we just continue to grow that. You know, I think I'd love to get leads from manufacturers. I'm sure they have inquiries into their sites. I think the gap that I see is that those clients, you know, may just be transacting or doing one thing with them, but they're not really creating necessarily lasting relationships. So I believe in the customer for life. We've got them in our system. We're communicating with them on a regular basis. We assign a sales rep and inside rep. We they're in a region. We have an outside rep. We want them to be aware of them. And they're typically, you know, expanding the relationship when they go out to see these clients. There's a lot more that's gotten, you know, face to face in many cases. You know, it would be larger facilities, larger projects. You said something interesting, Dan, that I really like, which is you said your high touch, high technology. And a lot of times we hear the sense of conflict between, you know, the building materials industry is very relationally based and that's not going to change anytime soon. How do you handle the, the touch points with the crossover between you're obviously depending a lot on your rep, which is great. We really believe in the value of reps. But how are you blending the two between digital and helping your reps see the value of digital and where one isn't necessarily canceling out the other. Yeah, that was that came up in the beginning. I bet it did. Yeah, they still have a written on the wall that I would never take their commissions away from digital sales. So we, we commissioned the sales rep for those transactions because, you know, I believe that our customers in our particular market and the products we sell, in order to do it right and prevent the ton of returns, you want an expert on the line with these people. So, you know, that was one strategy we used to make sure we didn't just, you know, make it a separate situation. On the other hand, some of my reps, I don't need them speaking to somebody by a one lock for their apartment, you know, in New York City. So, so we do have a team, a web team designed around that type of client who, who really provides a lot of, Hey, here's when you can expect your order. Here's, here's where we want to make sure you've got the right thing that you ordered. And that's proven to help drive down a lot of returns. And to really reinforce the customer relationship, if you look at our websites and you see, we have Trustpilot as a customer review system. And so many of them may comments about, Hey, you always let me know what to expect. You know, the order is not just hanging out there and waiting for it to be communicated. You were saying one thing and prep for the podcast, Dan, about manufacturers and their lead gen and their handling of leads. Can you speak to that once you're seeing in the marketplace? Yeah, sure. I guess, you know, in my mind, I see, I see a large gap there. So I don't really get any leads emailed to me, let's say. We probably process upwards of a dozen to two dozen, you know, inquiries or leads in our small little distributor company. Like per day or like per week? Yeah, per day. That's really solid. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, that's not included in that orders that are placed. I mean, these are just like, you know, a increase on coming. I have a question about something. It needs to be passed on to the rep to answer. You know, we try and engage them. Can I ask you, sorry to interrupt. Can I ask you, like, do you know where the majority of those questions are coming through? Like what's generating the most of those inquiries on your website? Do you know that off the top of your head? Could be customer service, inquiries. It could be headwares, my order. Is it through your chat? Yes. Yes, through chat, typically. Yeah. And then we have sales, sales at Taylor security. This is a generic mailbox we have that customers also use for those type of inquiries. Yeah. So that's, you know, that's how we work with those folks. Okay. Sorry. Sorry, Zach, back to your question. Yeah, I was just curious to know, looking at how manufacturers get leads and handle them, you had some interesting perspective about gaps that you see and how they not only handle them, but how are they tracking? What are they using that data or how they leveraging that data? And, you know, you even had some recommendations for what they should be doing. Yeah. Well, I guess it's in my interest to do that. But, you know, I often think about, you know, if the hospital in local Northvale, New Jersey called you for an exit device, what did you do with that? You know, if they asked you a question about something, what happened? We would like to know that person. We would like to talk to that person and make sure they're a lead for us and that we would ultimately keep your brand strong in that location, you know, knowing that that's the brand he prefers, and we would work to do that to keep that, you know, we're the sales and marketing arm of these companies and many respects on the street, you know, but we're faced with these people day to day. And, you know, we that's our job to keep keep in touch with them. But I'm feeling like there's a ton of opportunities sitting out there that's just not not engaged. I don't think they engage them. And we'd love to be a part of that help to engage with those clients, regardless of who they are, if we have to separate them, we have to separate them. But anything more than zero, I'm doing good. You know, that's where I'm at now. But in fairness, the feet on the street people are field reps and the end user reps, they do do a good job of us in terms of getting leads. But it's this digital marketing side that I think we're talking about that we seem like you got to see the opportunity as well. Yeah, I mean, I look at that and go, you know, a lot of manufacturers put a ton of effort and emphasis into their online marketing. In one area, we tend to see a lot of issues is that handoff between that lead that came in and then giving it to a pro or someone like yourself or a dealer and ensuring that there's that feedback loop of, you know, ensuring that they got their money's worth in paying and acquiring that lead because it's marketing dollars that acquire that lead. And then you obviously, you want to make sure that you capitalize on that for your business. And it's a win-win across the board. Have you see anybody that's doing that well, Dan? And if not, like what would what recommendations would you give a manufacturer? Well, it's interesting. I think the strongest brand we see lead generation with is Gormacaba Best. And what they did a few years back was implement an installation program. So not only do they have their own hardware, they've actually have an installation group that's helped us secure some very large projects. So yeah, I would say they're doing a good job. They're getting close to that customer. They're getting down and they're turning screwdrivers in their facility. That's that's how close it is. I mean, it's real. It's a great partnership. You know, distributors have a role in the market. We have a lot of local contracts. We have state county. We have GSA contracts. We do a lot of work to make it easy for customers to buy, to purchase. So, you know, that's our role. We understand our role is to make your job easier in the sales of the market and build them. All we're saying is, Hey, throw us the ball. We're ready. You know, we're ready. You know, I think maybe manufacturers point to this where to buy section of their websites. I hate to say it, but I searched it about a year ago and I was missing in a lot of major brands that, you know, I was in prior when I first got here. That was one of my first projects to go through and say, Hey, let's make sure we got links to everybody. And I'm looking and I'm like, how are we not here? What happened? So, you know, it's an area, even if you have the where to buy, make sure you're on it. So, you know, look, everyone's, you know, under the gun getting work prioritizing work and you understand that. But yes, it's helpful to check these things sometimes. And that may be the extent of where they think they're doing this handoff is this little where to buy section, which, you know, it's not, I don't think it's doing the job. Maybe what they intended to do. So as a distributor who wants to be gathering leads from those where to buy pages, what does your ideal where to buy page look like? Imagine I'm a contractor or a builder, and I need to get in touch with you. I'm on a manufacturer website that you stock. What would you want me to find on the page that I could get to you? We have a landing page that would be introductory to Craftmaster Hardware. It's typically set up geography. And I get that even though we're a nationwide player, we understand that there's got to be some lines drawn around that. So they will post us on the where to buy it. And just a click through link gets us to our site. You can immediately kind of get it just to who we are, how we can help from the landing page. You know, I don't know how many leads we get from our manufacturer. I can probably check and find out. But I don't think the traffic is very strong from those. You said something a minute ago, Dan, which I think is one of the things that we say all the time, which is the manufacturer you mentioned is getting as close as possible to the customer, which is we say whoever gets closest wins, manufacturers and dealers need to get as close as possible and help them with the problems that they're dealing with in order to not only make the sale today, but also keep the sale for the future. When you're looking at this next year, you're starting to think through your marketing. What are the things that you're considering to try to get closer to that customer? Is it leveraging data more? Is it new marketing tactics? What's in the back of your mind as you're thinking through, hey, we really need to double down in these areas to improve and level up our marketing? Yeah, it's pretty much around the data. That's why it's a topic. We've been successful in some way. Look, we're not just complaining that this is not working necessarily as best as it can. In many ways, it has. We've come up with our own requirements for our data set that we need for our product information management system. Once I push that out, the manufacturers will fill that out. It may take a little while, but they'll get to it. We get that data back the way we need it. And that's worked out well. We have brand new brands that have come on board and because they fill it out, guess what? We promote their products first. We get them on the queue to get up on our sites and to be promoted. Look, we'll see results pretty quick on these new brands. We see results very quickly when we put our products up there and they're SEO friendly. You just need your manufacturers to give it to you, right? Yeah, in a usable manner. You know, in a usable manner. You know, recently, Stormacup have had a price increase, right? We're all struggling with that. I don't want to talk about that, but they gave us great data set. What's that? I said, tell me how you really feel. Yeah, right. That's the whole other story. But anyways, they gave us a great data set for the price increase where it's friendly to the Excel automation. We can make this work so much more productive that we can, you know, get it into these Excel automations. And theirs was simple and easy. And he said, my data guy said, I could easily do this. On the other hand, sometimes I get these massive data sets that he just looks at them and he just, he doesn't even know where to begin it too much. You know, we have a limited amount of fields we're looking for. We don't think they're backbreaking. I got to imagine this data resides pretty easily in most of the major manufacturers. Look, if they can build these locks with hundreds of parts in them, they can put together a marketing database set. And I'm not doing that work. So, you know, maybe I'm talking out of line, but it seems like the capability is there in these larger firms to do that. And look, we're just trying to capture more customers and to, you know, improve their market share and do what we need to do to take care of those clients that want their product. Dan, man, thank you so much for coming to show. One last piece of advice that I'd like to get your take on is, if a manufacturer is listening to this and they're like, you know what, we need to improve how we interface and work with our dealers, what one piece of advice would you give them? You know, I would say come out and, you know, talk to some of us who, you know, use this data and, you know, ask us how we want to see the data. Even how we use the catalogs, our team is very frustrated with one of the brands and how they reformatted their catalog. And it's friendly to somebody, but not the people who use it and forget about exporting that data. So, you know, sometimes, you know, somebody may make sense to somebody sitting around, but in a room, but come out to the field and talk to the folks who are using it. You may get different feedback. And, you know, maybe you can adjust to it. But yeah, hey, look, at our heart, we're looking to grow these brands, this business. And we believe that data is the way to get there going forward, as you said, in 2022. And if we can get that piece managed, we'll do very well. That's awesome. Dan, thank you so much for coming to show. For our listeners, if they want to get in touch with you or connect, what's the best way for them to do that? Yeah, you can find me at DDonahue at CraftMasterHardware.com and websites, like I said, is CraftMasterHardware.com or TailorsSecurity.com. Perfect. For our listeners, if you enjoyed this show, make sure you're good at envyo.com slash podcast to subscribe and get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams, alongside Beth Potnickalov. Thanks so much.