 So, esteemed panelists, would you please introduce yourselves to us? Yeah. Hi, everyone. I'm Jess. My pronouns are she, her. I actually just finished my PhD in romance languages, and that took me six years. Hi, everyone. My name is Donia. My pronouns are she, her. I'm now becoming a 30 year PhD student at Michigan at the biomedical engineering program. Hi, everyone. I'm Ryan and my pronouns are he, him. I'm in the MD PhD program here at the University of Michigan and I've been here since 2018, but I'm in approximately my second or third year of a bioinformatics PhD. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, y'all. So, to get us started, what do you wish that you knew in your first year here at Michigan? So I think there's a lot of different areas of graduate school. So in terms of academics being in the humanities, I wish I'd known more about the content and style and argumentation style that was expected in papers because, like, I'm from the UK, I did my undergrad there and that was different at Michigan, but it was also difficult for me because I didn't have anyone I could sort of ask in my family or like friends from home who were doing the same thing. So I wish I'd sort of known that what was expected in seminars, especially in terms of participation. I also wish I'd known how to make the most of the academic opportunities in graduate school like how to navigate conferences, serving on committees and like networking and meeting other people. And the third thing that I wish I'd known is how to find mentors and role models that are a good fit for me because there's like faculty and instructors all around you but not everyone will relate to all of the concerns you have. So it can be really helpful to find people who are like have been in a similar position and can like support you in those ways. I can go next. A couple of things I wish I knew my first year is, first of all, like, basically you are doing a PhD because you're learning like you want to become an expert in the field like you're not expected to know everything. And so it's like very uncomfortable but very normal to say that you don't know something. I think I struggled a lot my first semester specifically during like lab rotations because I felt like I needed to do as much as I could, instead of like focusing more on like lab culture and like seeing if I like the mentor fit. And feeling constantly like I was just not performing as well as I could have, because I didn't know enough. But that is the whole point you're not supposed to know everything and that's okay. And I still don't know everything and that's okay. It might be just take it easy, meet like kinder to yourself. And the second thing maybe I would put out there is like if you feel like you're struggling with the transition because I feel like the shift from like either industry to going back to school or like from undergrad straight to grad school could be challenging. So if you are open to considering like maybe a therapist or counseling like, especially the first couple months. So that I felt very isolated at the beginning, then realize like, if you have a good support system. That's all you really like it helps it's I feel like it was all I really needed to like kind of get through the first year. And I wish I had like discovered that sooner, which sounds like really common sense but you know, it's hard to think about everything when you're like trying to get your feet on the ground. I think I would definitely echo that for the support systems really important in grad school. I think that going into necessarily know like, kind of how mentally challenging it can be a time to. I would say, outside of that, I think things that are really important that I wish I'd known are, I wish that I had a better concept of what to look for mentor. Initially like I came in thinking that the topic that they research is really like the only thing that I should care about and I think that that's the farthest thing from the truth possible. You're going to spend a lot of years if you're ever you decide to be a mentor so I think the most important thing is that you can work super well with them. And that was something that I think was a little counterintuitive to start. And the only other thing that I would really emphasize is that grad school has lots of different benchmarks and things that you will feel very pressured to do. And I think it's very important to keep a perspective about what really matters. What are the main things you want to take away when you're done with your patient. And science PhDs that's typically like things like publications. So maybe you should spend a little less time sweating about or a little less time sweating things like committee meetings or pruning exams. Those are just kind of just like steps to get you to publication. Thanks y'all. Okay, so we just talked about what you wish you knew in your first year. Now could you tell us what you wish you had done in your first year I know y'all shared a little bit but could you elaborate a bit more. I think a big thing for me is that I wish I'd been more organized in terms of tracking opportunities because you can't do everything all at once. So I wish that when I'd heard about conferences I'd heard about programs on campus for professional development. I wish I'd sort of kept a note of when these were and like when they were deadlines. So I would like remember to do them that you can't do everything one year but sort of having more of a plan for my time as opposed to sort of spending my first year not doing anything because it's fine to take time to settle in but I wish I'd sort of kept better track of what I wanted to do and sort of not ended up doing so much in my later years and spread out a bit more. And I actually also wish so from my second year onwards I was in a residential scholarship program where we did a lot of community service. And I actually wish I'd started doing community service like independently and my first year as well because I think it's a really good way to connect with people outside your department and to settle into Ann Arbor. And I wish I'd done that sooner because I think it would have given me more of a balance between just spending all my time on academics and work versus you know getting to know the city more and having an extra layer of structure I think that would have really helped me. Yeah, I second the exploring like clubs and like kind of building a community there. Just like wishing I like focus more on developing like a good support system my first semester, instead of like trying to hard and labs in sleep, I wish I slept more. Yeah, I think for me it would definitely be just focus on really finding a good mentor. I think if you can finish your first year in a PhD program and find someone that you like working with and communicate well with, I think you're going to have a schedule. Yeah, that definitely resonates. Okay also what are the best things that helped you when you first got here. So I didn't necessarily plan all of these things so one thing that really helped me was ended up applying to housing really late because like my visa appointment was late and I was like oh I don't really want to commit to something until I can do that but actually ended up having a room in the home of a retired couple, and that was really great because it was a little bit further away from campus and I sort of had a balance where I was living with people who were nothing to do with the university. Like they had they were heavily involved in their church so I'd meet a lot of people who had come around for dinner and they, yeah, I would come home every night and they'd be watching random things on TV and just baking and stuff. I think finding a living situation that was so far removed from what I was doing on campus really helped like keep me grounded in some ways. And yeah just you know doing small things to like give myself some balance so I had like an on campus job for 10 hours a week and I spent a lot of time working out like how the stipend in the taxes would work, like as soon as I got that because I sort of understand what's going to happen with that how much I should be getting, and I'd recommend doing that you know like looking through the university's web pages because all the information is that if you don't understand it you can just email the various offices and people like can help and it's just good to sort of have an understanding of those administrative things because it kind of takes like the pressure off you academically and in other areas so yeah. Yeah, maybe this is also something I did like before I got here but we have like a department student council, where like their older students that try to organize like events, and I reached out to them about housing. And they helped like facilitate the group chat almost of all the first years and also give us tips on like restaurants and things to do in Ann Arbor things like that so I highly recommend like reaching out to other students in your department if you have access and emails. It helps you understand like what the housing market is here before you get here because it is not great because it's like a college town so a lot of things get like rented out pretty early on. But it's also just like a nice way of like learning more about the city and making friends early on. That's one thing I am glad I did my first year. I think probably the biggest thing that you can do, or that helped me would be to establish a community or establish like a support system. So this could be your fellow, you know, grad students, and I kind of like trying to find front like friends in areas that you don't like find people to be friends with that you are not in grad school with. So I think it definitely helps balance your little bit. And get a pet. You don't have one. Hey, thanks, y'all. Okay, everyone we're going to move to our Q&A. So that we can give you all as much time to ask our panelists specific questions that you have as we transition into the Q&A my colleague is going to place our evaluation survey in the chat. And if you could just do me a favor and just open the link now so that you'll have the tab ready and waiting for you when we're done. So remember that we're going to move through the Q&A by keeping stack and for those who weren't here when we first explained what stack is it's just that we're going to go down the line of questions in order of appearance and so you can get on stack by raising your hand at the bottom of your Zoom screen or writing stack in the chat and I'll call on you for either of those or you can write your question in the chat and I won't ask it for you. Please remember to speak slowly so that the closed captioning can capture all that you have to say. Okay, let's get started. And while y'all wait, I have a question for our panelists. What was the, what are some things maybe that's really surprised you or that you didn't expect when you first got here. This is like quite a personal thing but I'm happy to share it I think before I went to Michigan. I wouldn't say I had like low expectations of myself but I didn't really understand like how to build a career or like what was out there or how to do that and then when I got to Michigan I was in quite a lot of spaces like for example some of their professional programs in Rackham where like there was really clear advice and really clear guidance and I got to do a lot of things that really bought my confidence in that area so I actually, it wasn't that I didn't expect to feel good about stuff like that. But I did feel really good and it kind of gave me like a new sense of actually like I can build a professional career and something and I can sort of do more than I thought I did. So I like, I didn't expect that I would like enjoy a lot of those programs and stuff just because they were things that were unfamiliar to me because I'd not really been in an institution not offered stuff like that before. So I think yeah I think kind of going along to things and like being open to them and that because yeah I just didn't imagine that I would be pursuing the career I would be pursuing now like the kind of places I'm applying to. So yeah, that was something that surprised me but that was like a really good surprise. The thing that surprised me was how my priorities shifted a little bit. My first year as as Ryan like had talked about I was super focused also on like the research and like the field that I wanted because I thought that this is like what I wanted to do work in after I graduated. And there's this one specific PI that I was like I am coming to Michigan to work with him. And then I rotated in his lab in a month for a month and I just didn't feel like I clicked with his students. I didn't click with him. He was really nice but just something fell off. I was just like constantly stressed in his lab and then when I rotated in my now PI's lab I like just he was just a gut feeling I don't know how to explain it, but like I cared more about the people and like how I felt more than like the actual science. And I'm really glad that I decided to think that way later in the semester because at the end of the year spending like five years with the same people and you don't want to like rip your hair out anytime you see them. So, yeah, I appreciate he's already so much work like you don't want to make it even like harder on yourself so that's something that surprised me. I'm sure it's actually very similar to yours, but I think the thing that surprised me the most is how much I have changed as a person since I came here. Just like, if you kind of will over the course of a long PhD program, you come in with all of these like expectations for yourself and what you're going to do. And I don't know just the things that you think are important to change with college wouldn't would never expect that necessarily. Everything the job said, you and to go off a bit what you just mentioned Donia and then also what you and mine have spoken about earlier about like mentor fit. How do you determine that I when I came in I thought like this person does what I want to do. Therefore, this person should be my mentor. My advisor now is not in in in any way the area of what I want to study and we have a fantastic relationship she's the perfect advisor for me. And yet we don't match like research topic wise at all so if you all could speak to like what does it look like to understand like what how do you find like the right mentor. So I think you can have multiple mentors like I don't think you can necessarily get all the support you need from one person or one place so I'm like academically so in the humanities like you're not in a lab so you're kind of working with one person and like you have a committee but at least in my case I did most of my work with my main advisor. And like he was, I decided I didn't want a career in academia, and he was like really upfront that he couldn't necessarily like direct me to the right places for that but I said to him like that was fine and I just sort of wanted him to take an interest which like he did so that was really great and I actually so I got what I needed from him academically like his interests were aligned with mine and that was really good. So I actually found my best mentors so I did the rack and internship program which I would really recommend if people get an opportunity to do that. And actually found my best mentors at the place where I did my internship which was somewhere else on campus. So it kind of actually we did a project about graduate mentoring and my internship so it's like quite funny that they became really great mentors for me but I sort of did it by, we would have like moments where we sort of connected as people as well as for work conversations and I would like bring up topics and slate that were important to me and like we had conversations about that. And I kind of grew from there and then I would sort of come with more structured questions like about job applications, or about like navigating accommodations in the workplace just things like that and yes I think you can build mentoring relationships in multiple places and sometimes actually naturally meetings many different people as you can on campus. Seeing who you click with and then sort of saying oh can we start up something more structured if that works for you where you bring specific questions can be a great way of going about it. And also sometimes you can get really good support from peers as well in that way and you can offer peers, your advice on various things too so there's like definitely lots of different places where you can get it from. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think what I focused on with looking for mentor is. So, I'll backtrack. So like I mentioned I was like really focused on the science. And something that I just noticed with like the mentors that I didn't like was that our conversations were very like work focus like this is my data this is my progress for the week. That's it and then they're like all right and like have nothing else to talk to me about something that I was. I like I ramble I talk I like to have conversations with people so like what I really like about my current PI is that she's very personable she likes to ask me about my day like if I'm away for like a week. Sometimes we talk about that. She's open to having these types of conversations. What was really important for me was that I have like a female PI like a woman on my committee, because it's like my field is already like pretty male dominated. And I wanted someone who like could understand my perspective as like a minority in the field. And I'm glad that I was able to find that in my mentor. And just someone who like sees you as more than just like a data collecting machine, you know, like someone who like actually didn't really want to talk to you and know you. These rotations that I did were as much of a test for me as it was for them because I like asked them about their communication style, their expectations of me it's like really uncomfortable questions to ask. But the earlier on you could ask them the better like if it like gives you like this weird feeling when they tell you like what their expectations are from the get go. I think that's already like a good sign that might not be the best fit. So just a lot of speed dating for the first few months of school. I think speed dating is a really good way to think about it. And I think the first thing you need to know before you go speed dating is you have to be aware of what you are looking for. Maybe you're the type of person that wants to meet every week for an hour, the type of person likes to be left alone and maybe you catch up on the big things. You need to figure out what you want from your potential mentor, first of all. And once you know what you want, then I think you can cast a really broad net and start the speed dating process, you know, I think it's very okay to ask very focused target questions like it may seem very like very forward to ask these things but it's better to know like if you guys said just have different ways of communication if they're not cool with meeting once a week, and they say this right away like that's I think a clear sign maybe they're not the best for you if that's what you want. So I would say don't be afraid to necessarily interview people or meet with people briefly that maybe you wouldn't think you'd be interested in but you need to click with. Because I think that that's how you can kind of end up with a better personal fit which is much more than research. Thanks y'all. I know that a lot of us probably have had similar experiences. One of our panelists asks, do you feel slash have you felt and posture syndrome, starting grad school, and how have you worked through that. I wouldn't. So my undergrad was super intense so I wouldn't say that I felt it academically because I'd already sort of had an experience of having to write an essay every week that like I'd chosen myself right and discuss it one to one so I was quite fortunate that I'd had like that kind of academic preparation but I'd say I definitely felt it like socially and in terms of like, knowing what was expected in terms of interacting with peers, because it was a different environment to what I'd been in before and I felt that like I was less good at it naturally and another people which is probably my perception of it but that I felt really like nervous about that for a while and I would often feel like socially I had had different experiences and like in my family I had different experiences and they're different they're not better or worse but that definitely made me feel like oh should I be here is it like the right place for me so that's the kind of imposter syndrome that I felt. I would say I, it really helped me finding like mentors who had gone through some of the things and like speaking to them about it and like making connections and sort of looking at all the things like I had achieved like keeping a list of that and thinking okay that's a really great way of sort of reflecting on like that I am like worthy of being here I guess so yeah. I still feel imposter syndrome. When I first got here I was so like I think we all probably did like really well undergrad to get into Michigan so I like I knew academically I was doing decent in school but it's like a whole other playing field. When you're studying like something that no one really knows the answer to. And you constantly feel like you're in the dark you're lost. So I like it's just really hard at first but then like you kind of get used to that. That sounds really bad like you kind of get used to like not knowing and like trying to figure out ways to problem solve like your degrees basically just different techniques to problem solve. Like the more I got into like my research and I got like posters and talks. I felt like oh other people also thought that my work was cool so I think that like getting like different accomplishments helped and made me realize like this is all just like practice and time and effort. So socially. I don't know if it was like I felt imposter syndrome like from my peers like they felt like I was different from them. But I felt like my personal experiences coming to grad school was different that I could never really like bounce back from like certain things as fast as them. I didn't know if there was like an etiquette to talking to professors or like people like what topics I was allowed to talk about what wasn't. I just felt very like lost and confused at the beginning. My family, I like no one went to grad school for my family so a lot of the time I felt like I didn't have that much support from like my family so because they just didn't know what to tell me so sometimes I was like well no one really understands what I'm going through so maybe I'm like not experiencing what everyone else is experiencing. But like the more I talk to people the more I realize like this is all just a universal feeling of stress and it's fine. And it's totally okay to be from a different background and like get to where you are today it's just a reality that you kind of kind of work through so. I don't think I was necessarily worried about this incoming but I think it's one of the things that's maybe like bothered me the most is that like, when I was an undergrad like I went to a big state school for undergrad, and I definitely didn't feel like I was any different from anyone else necessarily. So once you get into like grad school and med school here, like it just becomes so much more apparent that all of your peers as parents are just like so accomplished like in my incoming med school class like one of my parents, or one of one of this person's parents was he was Dean Rung's son who is like the like person whoever sees the entire medical school. And that's just like one example like half of the class has parents who are PhDs or MDs or has all this like basically like soft skills that they just like grew up around like you just don't know about. And I think that's a huge disadvantage even, even if you are a smart or as hardworking as these people you just like don't necessarily know the things that you need to do. And it's really unfortunate but I mean it's just one thing that you have to think about and try and mitigate and I think the best way that I have found to mitigate this is to seek out mentors and role models, even if they are, you know, the eyes, or just older students but you need some way to get this advice that these people have grown up with and have access to. And unless you get that, that advice that input that person that's going to look over your application that knows what you're looking for like I think that's, that's just a disadvantage. I think it's just intrinsic to being first gen or have a different minority than. So, yeah, I, it's something that still I think bothers me a lot and kind of concerns. I think the way that it comes. Thank you. The same student also asks, are there any resources that helped you with applying such undergoing the process of starting grad school. I feel like it's hard, especially for first gen students so specifically as someone who comes from this background. What resources maybe helped you in this process. Specifically to Michigan, I would say, Sweetland and the English Language Institute are really helpful because the classes at the English Language Institute it's that might sound like they're only for people who don't have English as a first or like main language in their life but actually there's a lot of classes about academic style and conventions and expectations that anyone can go to, and they're really really helpful like I took a few of them and they were really like great during the dissertation writing stage. And also you can take them as early as coursework I think and that can be a really great way of understanding what's expected in an environment where like you're not. It's not going to necessarily affect your GPA or like how people in your department like perceive your work so that's a good place to try stuff out and sweetlands really great as well because you can go there and learn more about like what's expected for writing they have writing groups where you can connect with other students and build routines that way. But in general for transitioning to graduate school. I find the internet quite helpful, like Reddit Quora and places like that because you can ask questions anonymously and obviously most people on there are not experts that it's access to a much wider range of peers and you can post anonymously and ask things that you might worry about asking like you know publicly or to people you know so as long as you kind of verify any information people give you with like offices on campus if that's appropriate it can be a really good like low stakes way of asking stuff and like reading about other people's experiences to. Okay, I was applying for grad school. I can actually put links as I talk. There were these mentorship programs that I was looking for. And I found this one that was for like, unrepresented minorities but I think they mostly, they try to target like Hispanic Latino, Latin X groups. Okay. It's called Scientifical Latino which is for like people who are interested in pursuing STEM majors, I mean STEM PhDs. So, I had like, I was paired with a peer mentor who was in my field who was like maybe one to two years ahead. And he like helped me with my application he helped me with like interviews we did mock interviews together and it was really awesome I still talked to him to this day. And we check in with each other so like there's some there's so much value to like peer mentors. And there's also schools that offer these types of programs for my specific field. I know like MIT and Hopkins offers like this graduates assistance application program specifically for biomedical engineering. I actually helped start a program for our field this field to at Michigan, and we're entering our second cycle which is really exciting. But I think mentorship and like finding resources by basically like harassing other students has been super helpful and just getting used to emailing as many random people as you can for like personal statements or examples or stuff like that. So how do you recommend just annoying people. Yeah, I would definitely agree I think find a mentor that's doing what you want to do as early as possible. I think that even if they don't necessarily have the same background as you, they're almost always willing to help you with my experience walking and showing. So I think that people that type of people that know exactly what you need to do can help you set up like recent goals to get there. Yeah, find a mentor the early. Yeah, were you worried such afraid about coming into grad school as a first gen student. And if so, how did you deal with that. I was like worried or afraid but I like, I mean like I knew I was and I sort of knew that I would have to be like proactive in ways that I might not have had to be if I had different experiences in my family and like my background so I think I was just always anxious of like the networks that I made and the opportunities I got I really wanted to make the most of because I'd not sort of had necessarily easy access to those things before and I was always thinking that I was like I had more to learn in terms of interaction with other people and I wasn't necessarily worried or nervous about it was just something that I sort of was going on in the background and sometimes it would like occur to me in class if you know people were having discussions that like weren't necessarily relatable to me about like, you know what their parents did or like other people in their family but I just would think to myself well in a way I found it quite freeing because I was like my parents don't really have any spoken or spoken expectations so I guess I can do what I want so I felt more like every decision I made was I made because I really wanted to do it not because it had always been expected of me implicitly or explicitly or like people around me had sort of told me I was always going to go to graduate school or like everyone had to go to graduate school so I actually came to really appreciate it in that way because it was like I felt like I really owned the decision so yeah. This is a little personal. I think I felt more guilty than worried or afraid because I come from like a cultural background where like you always stay as close to family as possible. People rarely ever like kind of leave until I don't know they get a job or something and like I mentioned I know when my family had ever gone to grad school. I felt like that I was like choosing to move like to a different state for like at least five years away from my family it was kind of like a shock for them and I wasn't met with much enthusiasm. And I decided to make decisions so because I like relied on like their approval or like their support for so long. I felt very guilty about the decision I was making and very like concerned that it would affect my relationship with them. And also there's like a financial aspect because like when your first gender is the socioeconomic link of like you didn't have as much opportunities as like high schooler to pursue like things and like think about college earlier on or think about like other things. So I was always like very stressed about finances, much more than like my peers. At the end of the day all worked out. There's they they're by now me and my parents. They still kind of like ask how long do you have and when I tell them. Oh I don't know depends on my advisor they kind of like look at me with a knife which it's like it gets better over time but something that I was just like super scared of is like, oh like my parents will never like be happy that I like made this decision that I know is like best for me. But they just don't know. And you kind of like have to hold their hand through it so. I think the thing that I was most worried about it's just like whether I was going to do well or not. And also like, just like the cost that come up for various things. As far as like how you mitigate that like, I don't know I think it still stresses me out. And maybe the best way I do that is I, I try and clearly write down like what I need to do and set like clear goals and then try and focus on those goals, and not swap the rest. Yeah, I don't know. Oh, I think it's something that you know regardless of your background you worry about whether you're going to do well. I don't know. I don't know if I was super helpful but yeah it stresses me out too. Thanks. Or says that they're joining from a PhD in engineering, which in undergraduate relentless, relentless problem sets and some research. And so this person is wondering how do you all manage to stay on top of courses while also doing research. So, I think it's a, it felt a bit different to me when I was taking courses because I was also teaching during my second job while still taking courses. And I had like my own research project like humanities research projects so I didn't have to be in like a specific place at a specific time or anything. So that might make it easier I'm not sure it probably depends on the person. I'm not balancing a number of different things so like maybe three or four classes or research project and maybe teaching maybe some other kind of job like hobbies and life. I just like ruthlessly time block everything so on my calendar I'm like okay so if that class needs x hours of preparation, I'm going to spend those hours and then that's it and I just move on which is like, it's a mentality I learned during undergrad was exceptionally busy. I just had to learn about like good enough, as opposed to everything being perfect so, and when I was teaching I would block in the time for preparation that was like in my contracted hours and the time I was in class and the time for office hours and grading and that was it I didn't go above the hours and with anything really so my, like my classes for my hobbies like yoga and circus arts they were in there as well. Yeah I would just say allocating time and unless there's an emergency or like a professional reason that you really have to give more time to something then you perhaps would have planned to just sort of fight it and I'm not in sciences so I don't know if it's different but I definitely found in the humanities there was a point where it could be done enough to move on to the next thing you had to do so yeah. I don't know if this is every engineering discipline but from my experience grad school classes are actually like more chill than undergrad they it's more discussion based. I tried to avoid the classes where they like expected exams or like group projects, but I think it would either be project or discussion based for most grad school classes. It was a lot less of a workload to worry about. I think if you're, you said you're coming from, yeah they're coming from undergrad. I think it's like interesting how you have to like slowly shift your mindset to not care as much about courses as research. Something my PI like told me week two is like no one cares about your GPA in your PhD, and I was appalled I like was not convinced and I like tried to get as many as as I could my first year. And then I'm like I remember my second year I like barely like went to class and I sold it well. I'm not saying this to like brag I'm saying like it's actually not that hard to like keep up with assignments, because most grad course professors are also PIs. And they also care about their students doing research so it's kind of like classes feel like a formality more than like something you have to like do well and so you'll be fine. Don't worry. So this question kind of gets back to one of the things that I brought up in the intro. In grad school there are lots of boxes that you have to check and things that you have to do. And I think it's really important to prioritize what matters and what doesn't. Grades and classes don't really matter. It's grad school classes the whole in my experience are much easier than undergraduate classes. You should try and learn from them when you can but I don't think you should at all sweat about whether you get a B or an A. I don't think it matters. Same thing with your committee or not your committee but your freedom. You need to pass it. The university wants you to pass it you should definitely work on it but you should do what you need to do to pass and don't do anymore. Things that matters are prepping for your committee meetings. Like making progress on your research and publishing like papers at least in the sciences. This is why you're here. This is why you're in the program like try and devote the majority of your mental energy and stresses to that, instead of other things that maybe feel important at the time but in the grant. Don't fight. Thanks very much. Appreciate that. So as someone asks as a first gen student like Donia mentioned is an inevitable socio economic link. Did you jump right into a PhD or did you complete your master's first panelist, and how did you make that decision. That's one of the choices is persons trying to make for grad school so they wanted to ask since the financial factor is important to consider especially being first gen. I was a one year masters in the UK and I applied to PhDs in the US during that and I went straight there so it was 23 when I started my PhD. So, I think it depends on what you would be doing instead because to me, the kind of entry level jobs I could have got after my bachelor's or after my master's. It's like quite specific to the industry I thought I was interested in which I'm no longer interested in, but it actually would have paid me less like after tax and everything else than my PhD did. So I'd say like work out what you would possibly be making if you didn't do your PhD, and think about what you want to prioritize because when I started my PhD and my priorities were very different to now. I wanted like the four months that you get often during a humanities PhD where you can go to different places and do different things while you do your work right and that's maybe different if you have to work in a lab but there are things that are important to me then like aren't so much now. So, I think if you know you have responsibilities or you want to get started on like saving a lot for specific things that might be something to consider but it's up to you like pick the pathway that will hopefully lead you to what's important to you. That's a great question. I went straight from undergrad to PhD, but in all honesty I did not make any like cost benefit analysis I was kind of like, I think I want to do this I'm going to do this, and I will just you know figure it out. I think I still like, I'm happy with my decision but I wish I had thought more about like opportunity costs and like how much like just mentioned like I'd make it when I graduate. I knew that getting an advanced degree with me like I'd have a higher salary at the end. So you kind of have to think like is working for X amount of years of my PhD, going to give me the same experience as getting a PhD in getting landing the job that I want. I knew like what kinds of jobs I wanted and that they required a PhD. So I just like sucked it up, and I'm just going to like wait it out to like graduate. But yeah, you're right it is stressful because you kind of have to, I learned how to budget, which I never had to do an undergrad which was kind of a I guess a privilege because I was like on a scholarship or most of college. And like our stipend I think it works in our bar is expensive to live in but like it's doable. But yeah, I guess like as a grad student like you don't have the luxury to really save up to be honest. And that's just like how it is, unfortunately so. Yeah, I think this is one of those things that's probably super like program dependent and situational. I did take a kind of a gap here in between my undergrad and actually in here. I think that was because I felt like getting a program to qualify. Yeah, I think it's kind of situation. Thanks y'all so someone just graduated from a master's program and type one and will be coming to Michigan in less than three weeks. They've been away from their home country for almost three years. Completing their masters has made them feel incredibly stressed, and they don't think that two weeks is enough is enough time to get enough rest. I think that they need to visit their parents and their siblings, and they don't have fears about starting the PhD but they do feel overwhelmed. And so they feel stressed to start. They're supposed to start lab rotations like immediately as soon as school starts on the 28th of August, do you have any suggestions for them as they begin this process. I was able to talk to the PIs you're rotating with about possibly starting a little later. I was able to extend my like decision deadline for like when to pick a lab. Mine was like end of October and I extended it to almost a month from then, because I like couldn't make up my mind, I like had started at the right time and everything. So I think they're you should ask them hopefully they're willing to be accommodating but if that's something that really matters to you. It wouldn't hurt to ask. I agree I found the administration at least in the programs I've been pretty accommodating nice. And you never know unless you ask so I would totally try and contact someone. Maybe multiple people, hopefully, you know, one one will help you. I definitely echo that I found the folks at Michigan to be very accommodating and understanding and patient in a way that there was not the case in my undergrad and so if you need something at my undergrad you couldn't always ask for it here you should at least always ask and people are almost always willing to work with you. And I think Michigan's really great for that. I think it asks panelists that they would like to know how you approach alums or other people for networking and how helpful is it. They will be coming in as an international student and there's a bit of a language barrier. There may be a bit of a language barrier. Okay, so I think it can be helpful if you do it strategically like I found when I like hold called or like approached people that I don't know personally or I haven't been introduced to. It's worked really well when like I have a specific reason for contacting the person so for example I always would send like if I'm looking on LinkedIn or handshake which is like one of the universities like own things where you can like network with other alumni. I always look, I always think about what I'm interested in and people who might have something in common with me so for example, when I was interested in starting career instructional design at a tech company. I looked for people who also had a humanities PhD who had done the same thing. And I messaged him really specifically saying oh I see you have a humanities PhD and you made that transition how did you do it. I don't know if you're both linked to Michigan, but in you can mention that it's not the deciding factor and whether you contact someone I think focusing on like what you want to get from a conversation, and how you think someone can help you whether that's talking through application materials talking about experiences whether that's them connecting you to other people giving you a referral for a job application. It can help to be clear about what you want to get from the encounter and then work from that but I would definitely recommend reaching out to people and you know people. And people have many things they're balancing so if someone doesn't get back to you it's normally nothing personal or nothing you did wrong. And if you're worried about a language barrier you can start by writing to them a few times before you like agree to zoom them or something and then that like, if you feel like you've already built a relationship that can help alleviate nerves and that way. The only opportunities where I've reached out to alumni is from like labs that I've interacted with in Michigan and like I was looking for like internship position for the summer I'm currently doing an internship. And one of the reasons why I got this internship is like I knew someone who graduated from a lab that I collaborate with who like did an internship like three years ago. And they like referred me to this one person to talk to an HR so it's a big loop but like, if you like just mentioned like if you have like a motivation for the conversation. And also, if you kind of know their PI for some reason, they are willing to help you. I had really good luck, meeting people through two formats one, I've had great success just cold emailing people that I've like assembled upon online. If they have worked in Michigan or Michigan, I found almost anyone I've asked being willing to me for 30 to talk about whatever I have really long just super cool. And the other formats is sometimes they're like these faculty student like mixers or programs meals or stuff like that. You go to those like it's very easy to start talking to random faculty. And even if they can help you they might be able to point you in a direction some may know he does. So that's also been a pretty successful route for me too. Thanks y'all do you have any particular advice on managing finances and would you recommend an on campus job. Also, I actually got really interested in personal finance during grad school because I found like I had quite a lot of downtime in the evenings where be looking for things online so that was something I started reading up on quite a bit so I would say if you Google there's a lot of really good and quite inspirational like personal finance tips out there some are specific to grad students but my personal advice would be like at the start of every semester I always write out what money I'll have to make available so like from fellowship if I'm teaching from teaching so I wanted an internship it was that money. And then I sort of work backwards from there so how much like, like rent would be how much food would be like what I need and then look at what's left over potentially save some potentially spend some on things I want so I'd say being organized about it if you find you're regularly running out before the end of the month like tracking what you're spending and if it's things you can sort of change or cut down on like some of these changes where it's practical and yeah I would recommend if you're not teaching if your visa conditions allow it if your fellowship if your department allows it definitely getting an on campus job because it's a good way to go into different spaces on campus to meet new people I did that in my first year before I was teaching and I found it really beneficial so yeah definitely. I'm not really figuring out how to manage my finances but I think budgeting is really helpful, like Justin mentioned. So I just echo her opinion. Yeah, I would say, you know budgeting when you're able. I found, if you're just taking care of yourself the stipend to be pretty manageable living alone. I think typically find like, you know a studio rent for $1,100 and probably less if you're willing to live in its lining which is a great, great option. And if you have room it can be even cheaper than that which is pretty much what I've always done. Obviously everyone's like situations different but I think I would recommend against getting a job on the side if you can avoid it because I feel like your time here as a trainee and you know anytime you're working is the time that you're taking away from any point that you're here but I understand that everyone's situation system so I think that's that's my advice. Okay yeah we have two more questions from our audience. Did you all know what you wanted to focus on in your research when starting grad school immediately or did it change and is it okay to change as you go through the first few semesters. Yeah, I knew, like, so I work on, I worked on because I don't do academic stuff anymore but I worked on French literature and I knew the time period that was a big period it was 300 years. Then as I took classes and like I tried out various things I even wrote a couple of chapters that I then changed my focus to like a different concept and topic within that period so I knew roughly the material but not how I was going to use it but I know people who have switched totally from like different disciplines different like within the humanities like different languages different periods different authors everything so it's yeah you can within your first few years especially you can always change tracks which applies as that's usually okay. Um, I just knew, like the track I'd be in in my department were split by like concentrations. And then I just like pick three professors that I really like that I wanted to rotate in, like just because their research seemed cool. I didn't have like any background in a lot of the things they were talking about. And that's kind of how I think my lab. I would say keep it really open mind. I think my interest changed a lot between when I came here when I'm working on now. I think a lot of that's just based on what you are exposed to. So, keep it open mind. Yeah, I've definitely known research to change completely. And so final question y'all are there any opinions that you, how do you feel about the health care package. Are there any opinions that you have or have heard of from other students about mental health care in Michigan. Um, I found the grad care insurance that you get in PhDs if like your own fellowship or your teaching I found that it covered what I needed and there were copays for mental health care but I mean this was like three years ago for me so it was $25 but that's like the actual price of the sessions was like 200 so it was like the rest of it was fully covered so you should always like check what you might be incurring in terms of cost before you use a service but like people will tell you but I never I never found it like prohibitively expensive like with the stipend to pay for what I needed and there's the University Health Service on campus which offers a lot of services like annual physicals vaccines and stuff and it's right there and most things are covered by yeah the tuition I think so yeah. Yeah. I feel it was the same about our health care package I think it's it's I think it's pretty good. I did go to the health services as much as I could so I could avoid paying the co pay whenever I can. I also pro tip. If you could pick your PCP to be someone who works at the health services, then I think you don't have to pay co pay. It was my first year and it worked but I just wanted like a different doctor so I switched to that and that's the like fine. I don't think it was too much in terms of mental health. I think it's a mixed bag. I think they're very unfortunate like so short staff that they can't like offer you as much assistance as they would like so I tried out counseling through caps which is like the the counseling services at Michigan. And I was only able to have like a therapist for a semester and then they she had it was like a short term thing and then she had to like either refer me to someone or like kind of tell me to figure it out on my own. And luckily I was referred to some people and things ended up working out, but you could also consider like group therapy if you want through caps like they try their best to provide as many resources as they can and I think I've had a positive experience, but you might want more you might want like less exposure to therapy that's something that you could maybe talk to someone from caps or a different therapist from like an external like a third party through our health care. I think in my experience with the health care that's provided through the grant programs is pretty been pretty generous and pretty pretty good. Thanks y'all I have a final question for you. I'd love to hear the biggest piece of advice that you would have to give to our audience as they start their new journey. Yeah, I think being open to like your academic and professional goals changing and making the most of all the opportunities you can even if you don't necessarily think it's a perfect fit for you because you know there's no perfect fit there's like perfect for you at the time. I need to think for a second so I'm going to pass. I think my biggest piece of advice would be to find a mentor that she thank you work well. I think I'm going to second the mentor because I think that really makes your breaks, your PhD in my opinion, but also like having a good support system. So. Okay, thank you. Thank you panelists for your time and your expertise and sharing all that with us today and thank you audience members for being here. The recording of this event will be sent to you once it's been processed, I'd like to share that there is a first gen listserv as you can become a part of and get information. Every once in a while about being first gen and rack them and some resources that might be helpful. Our panelists email addresses will be put in the link so that you can contact them if you have any further additional questions. And please don't forget to fill out the survey so that we can better improve our services for you. That's all the time we have for today. Thank you. Take care of yourselves.