 who is currently trying to not mess up the length of the mic for the speakers after me. You're doing a good job. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's very weird when the mic's down here. I am the associate director of artistic engagement at the California Shakespeare Theater. Yeah I also go by they and them pronouns and I'll be co-facilitating some stuff. You might even see me later and some other things in the afternoon. So we'll see. Yes. So we're just, we have a little sort of house announcements and a welcome for you all and then we'll you know we'll get into things. To kick it off I wanted just to give some context for why we're doing this event and you know what sort of led us to this place. And really you know Lisa and I only met like a year ago and to people who identify on sort of a trans spectrum. We and then we sort of met in a couple other spaces and realized that there was a huge lack of knowledge around sort of trans related identity issues and sort of gender analysis in general in our field even in spaces that we were in that were like coming from a social justice base. And so there's also been a few productions around the country this year that have really, there've been productions of plays with trans characters or by trans playwrights that theaters very well intentioned theaters have put on and then have received like a lot of sort of call outs from community for not doing it right and all of that and sort of within that context we realized that we were in a place to really like give people resources and to also strategize and whatnot. So the goals for today are to provide context and dialogue on this issue from multiple perspectives in our field. Feel free to take a seat. You're welcome here to provide resources and support for everyone in the room to make intentional trans inclusive work and trans centric work and then to showcase some trans identified theater artists specifically playwrights of color. Yeah those are our thoughts for today. Word and so if you want to take a look in your handy dandy packet so this is an agenda for the day information on the playwrights and there's also a resource guide so we do want to name that we're not necessarily going to be going over terminology. Really we want to be thinking about how do we use the panel with some lovely, lovely panelists right there. I'm classy everybody. Then we'll be going into breakout sessions. We actually decided to do breakouts by identity really to have an opportunity for trans identified folks and folks that are on the trans spectrum to talk about what they feel like is missing or barriers or a lack of like strategic efforts within theater to be more inclusive and on the flip side having an opportunity for theater administrators for independent artists who don't identify as transgender to talk about what barriers that they see and what are some ways that we can brainstorm out institutional solutions. So we're coming from both a programmatic and an organizational practices perspective during that session and because the whole saying of what's learned here leaves here we want to have an opportunity where everybody actually gets to hear what's been brainstormed. So after that we'll be coming back for about 30 to 40 minutes and doing a share out so that everybody can hear about the different things that we're spoken of in both groups. We'll have a brief reception. We'll have food. I'm really excited. I'm a really big fan of fancy cheeses and we're going to have fancy cheeses and then we'll go into the stage readings and getting to hear some of the amazing work from the playwrights that we'll be featuring today. Yeah, so some general logistics. We are being live streamed through HowlRound at the moment. Can everybody cheer for the live stream? We're using the hashtag break in the binary 2016. If you have thoughts that you'd like to communicate via you know social media please use that hashtag. Bathrooms. There is one all-gender bathroom just right outside of this door and then there's another bank of maybe like six you know two doors with multiple stalls out to the right and then take another right sort of down the hall. Those are also all-gender bathrooms for folks. There's the exit if anything should happen. I'm not laughing to this mic. Let's see if there's anything else. Yeah and just to like reiterate that like everyone in this room right now there's a wide range of folks you know folks who maybe identify somewhere on a trans spectrum as a theater professional as not and then some folks who maybe have no relationship. This is their start the start of their relationship to sort of trans spectrum identity you know language in general and just want to say that everyone is welcome here and would love for folks who just to reiterate you know we're not there we're trying to provide as many resources as we can for folks who do you know the work on their own. We would love to be able to explain everything and just can't get there but we want to make sure everyone feels supported and knows that they're welcome and folks who maybe don't identify you know on a trans spectrum like listening is a powerful thing right listening with your heart open and you know staying that way throughout the day we are so glad that you're here. That's all I got right on. So just we want to go through and we'll go over these in the breakout sessions as well but just kind of having like working agreements for the day so that everybody can show up and be as present in the space as possible. So a couple of ones we work with is kind of reiterating what SK had said is the best some of the best ways to show up in allyship for identities that are not your own is to listen and to hold space and just witness and then but we also want you to participate so that's why we're having the sessions where we're going to talk and strategize and brainstorm and figure out how to change the world it's going to be magical. A really big thing as well is not assuming people's pronouns so if you don't know ask an example that my co-facilitator for a later session and I talked about is if you hear somebody say something amazing and you're like yes this gave me my whole life and you want to reference it and you don't know their name and you don't know their pronoun a really great way might to be like so I really liked that thing that you said could you remind me of your name and your pronoun please. Oh my god thank you. It's SK they them. Word so I really like what SK is wearing right now I think that's turtleneck is just absolutely fabulous. So really just wanting to ask and not make these assumptions within that we're also asking that if you are corrected on pronouns or some if there's a term that somebody brings up like that actually feels kind of funky being able to listen and not taking things personally and being able to witness so that skill set again. We also want to encourage that feeling challenge or like if you're confused is not really an excuse to disengage as to SK's point earlier we do want this to be a space where everybody feels welcomed and feel like you have learning questions but on that note if you're really just having a moment like if something happens and you're like I need to take a breather please take care of your needs if you want to talk about something both myself and then I'm also gonna at the back of the room this tears Tyler with Cal shakes so if you need a second to tap out and talk to somebody you can approach either one of us during sessions during this first panel session and we will come out and we will talk with you and we will be your cheerleader and it'll be great or we'll be listening and witnessing and all that jazz. Yeah I think that's all I got in addition we also just want to do things we want to thank Cal shakes I want to thank the Irvine Foundation new California Arts Fund which has provided a lot of the resources to pay to bring some amazing artists here to value our performers by paying them the theater communications group for handling our lives we're like really promoting and spreading the word and how around for the live stream and for reaching out to us to share this information with a broader network and that's all I got. Yeah and I just want to say that both folks from Berkeley rep and from Cal shakes have supported us in all these really beautiful and unexpected ways so just want to really offer a deep thanks to like the staff that are here right now and are not here right now we've we've experienced a lot of community support we're super grateful for that. Cool I'm gonna put a mic down and go away now. Great we're gonna start the opening panel thank you so much everyone. So hi we're sort of the first part of our programming we're gonna try to keep with the time schedule that we have even though we're starting a little late I would love to just go down the line and have everyone say their names and pronouns and then I'll read a short bio for folks and kick off the the panel if that's cool so we'll start with you yeah. Can everyone hear me okay excellent so I'm from the Oneida in the Ojibwe tribes I use he his hymn pronouns for political reasons but I identify his two-spirit or niche money to walk. Hi I'm Manish and I please use they and them if you're talking about me behind my back. Hi I'm Schaefer and I use he and him. Hi I'm Nick and I use they and them pronouns. Beautiful so I'm just gonna take a minute to to give some bios for these folks so Ty Defoe is as he mentioned from the Oneida Oneida yeah Oneida and Ojibwe tribes of Wisconsin he is a two-spirit trans activist cultural pioneer writer musician and is known for his cultural education and hoop and eagle dancing he is also a core facilitator with art equity and has been in fellowship with TCG focusing on equity inclusion and diversity that is Ty. Manish is a comedian life coach to the burned out activists hello program coordinator at queer cultural center home of the National Queer Arts Festival and the founding artistic director of Peacock Rebellion a social justice arts organization for queer and trans people of color this is Manish. Next down the line we've got Schaefer who is a senior grants manager at the Exploratorium where he serves as strategic lead for the Museum Center for Art and Inquiry environmental initiative and science and society programs before joining the Exploratorium he held the position of director of institutional giving and strategy at ACT American Conservatory Theater where he led foundation government and corporate fundraising for annual productions and programs as well as the strategic development of special initiatives this is Schaefer and then we have Nick Kay who is a performance artist whose work involves sculpture video sound installation collage and printmaking Nick's current transdisciplinary projects explore movement as a place of reclamation of the body history and identity. Born and raised in the Bronx New York Nick graduated from professional performing arts school in 2007 and was a hemispheric institute emergence emergency or emergence fellow in 2009 they're a founding member of third language queer arts collective in 2015 Nick premiered their solo performance low black in Chicago at Lynx Hall and they recently developed a web series called Bronx cunt tour around their solo performance of low black for open TV which premieres in spring 2016 if you could give our panelists a lovely round of applause I would appreciate it great so we're gonna kick it off I want to name that Lisa and I really curated these panelists pretty intentionally we wanted folks coming from many different perspectives within the theater field and the arts field and we're super grateful that everyone is able to be here and have this conversation to open it up I asked them ahead of time to I'm just gonna give each person like about five minutes to name a successful experience as well as a main barrier or challenge from your perspective on navigating theater eating transcentric or trans inclusive artistic work so you can take it from a personal point of view or more of a strategy point of view as well and everything that comes in between so I'm gonna ask Ty to kick us off great I'm gonna ask Nick to kick us off okay so to reiterate the question yes us to name a successful experience and a challenge yes navigating our transness in theater and performance faces correct I would say you know not to be the contrarian but I feel like I have an issue with identifying when I'm experiencing challenges because of my gender or when I'm experiencing challenges because I'm black or whatever you know what I mean so in a lot of situations I am very often like is this a racial thing is this a gender thing is this a sexuality thing I'm not exactly sure but whether it is one of those three things it's usually like this place has a problem and they need to work it out so I just like to start with that you know like it doesn't matter let's start on a great success I would say that hmm in working well this okay I'm just gonna say this past fall I premiered solo performance that I've been working on for a while and I come from a theater background so I was thinking about many different ways I could perform also in theaters but also in galleries and stages more or so about the audience not the venue or the container right I'm like who do I want to see this space so spaces to perform wasn't really the thing but I worked with an organization called chances dances that promotes part those parties promotes parties but also was doing a retrospective and they were thinking really expansively with the group of curators around Chicago about how to take performance artists and other types of artists and work with venues in Chicago to show work that they had funded through their 10-year career and I had received a thousand dollar grant from them two years ago to develop this performance I was really excited about performing and with the curators I was able to perform thinking about the content of the show so the content of the show is very much so about me growing up as a little black girl and dealing with sort of society's ideas of my sexuality and how I should show my feminine body in ways that I've discovered to find power in my femininity through transitioning in various different ways so doing that it's like what spaces would be really good to show small clips of that right and with the curators who really believed in the story and in me and finding secure safe spaces I was able to perform on a party bus which is really random right but it was really great in terms of engaging with the audience and having agency and being able to like create a healthy very small moment right where I share that story in a little clip I was also able to perform in the gallery space that normally I don't really feel very good or very safe in sort of white fluorescent boxes you know but there was something about the way that once again this organization worked with the gallery to create an installation for the performance so they created a stage they thought about lighting I felt that I was affirmed in that my differentness and otherness either on that party bus or in that gallery space that I've never seen work like that before and affirmed me instead of making me feel kind of like an outsider also administratively I felt like I was able to circumvent the name situation that happens with what's your professional name versus what is your birth name and getting paid there was you know some things that you can't avoid when dealing with universities but for the most part that was one of the most successful experiences and to tell you the truth the challenges there's a litany so I would like not to focus on that so much but I would say that one of the biggest challenges that persists is the difference between working with really great affirming program directors or curators who really see me and see my work but then administratively the accountant hasn't gotten the talk right so then they're like oh Nicole we would love to get your W9 form and your social security and it's like no actually there's nowhere in any of my correspondences with you that I ever used my government name and I would really appreciate if we can like create a boundary between that and I think that is a sort of sensitivity that people who aren't working in programming may not have had talks about right with folks who are doing more the specific curation yes great thank you so I comedy and created my own work my current role in theater and in arts in general right now is a more administrative role and has been for quite some time so I'm coming from the perspective of a trans person in administration particularly fundraising which is I have to say to I'll tell you a success but I have to say that fundraising as a field is not very diverse regardless of whether you fit conventional categories in society so there's a particular challenge to being a gender non-conforming and trans person when money is at stake at least I feel that there has been not necessarily by it's not necessarily an institutional edict but there is a level of I'm supposed to make these people as comfortable as possible so they give my organization money and that is a baseline of how you operate as a fundraiser and when you are confusing or have a conflicting identity that people don't understand causes a lot of anxiety which has determined some of my trajectory as a fundraiser like I do grant writing and institutional fundraising because it involves less one-on-one schmoozing with individual people that have to understand me in that way but I so that there's there's those challenges I'll talk about there but I want to speak to a really positive side of being a senior leader at a one of you know at one of the country's largest regional theaters because when I was at ACT I was on the senior team and that's a very elite discreet you know select group of people that help set strategy for all sorts of programming and policies at the institution my leader my theater leadership was not always so I don't think they always comprehended and understood but when I decided to transition fully and spoke to our executive director at the time and saying I'm concerned that I'll I'll I'll be putting donors off so I want to know how you want me to handle donors how do how do we want to roll out this discussion and I have to say her answer was what I don't care about how they feel how do you feel how do you want to handle this that the rollout of this decision so I believe that people didn't have a lot of experience with trans people in my particular theater because I know if theater has a as we all know a reputation for being diverse but that that is a very limited diversity it is not actually embrace the complexities of diversity the initial response even when the person did not the leadership did not understand what it was that needed to happen was you we support you and we're we're in it want to make this happen that is you know in a way that acknowledges your work and your worth and not make you uncomfortable so that doesn't always roll out that way but the intention was it meant everything to me so I do feel also that having worked in other industries after theater I work in a museum setting now the arts have like I said the arts have a reputation for experiencing diversity more fully I do think that that's true in some context but not in others and we do need to keep pushing the conversation and talking about the complexity and intersectionality of diversity so I guess that's for now thank you great again space afterwards to discuss so we're just gonna move along the line and Manish go ahead whenever you're ready my god so many things okay so okay okay so one thing I will say is that one of the gifts of the organization that is my day job of the core cultural center is they let me say whatever I want uncensored okay so when I so I want to say that is a gift so when I when I say what I'm about to say with the challenge keep that in mind all right so what happened was all right so queer cultural center it's based in San Francisco yes we do the National Queer Arts Festival it's about 50 events in 30 days in in in and around June we also have the National Queer Performing Arts Summit which is this massive it's a huge thing so performing arts present its partnership with the National Performance Network and all these other groups and within that in the programs like I am one of three people deciding who is going to be presented on these stages so that is a lot and and this organization with and and what I love is the artistic director of the Queer Cultural Center is one of the first people I came out to I'm in the beginning of a beginning of a coming out process and a gender transition and so when I started to talk about centering trans women of color and trans fans of color in this work I knew the people I could talk to and trust to hold that and when I say centering I'm talking about I don't want to program I don't want to have like you know five slots and be like okay well these five slots are gonna be the trans women of color you know like that kind of thing right like that's that's not exactly what I'm interested in I'm talking what I'm interested in is work that actually talks that that isn't just talking about us or that isn't just us putting in putting you know pigeonholing us I want us to have the power to claim our space and our agency so the good news around that challenge is there is some we've built a lot of trust in the organization and there are some staffing changes that are coming with that and what I have to keep in mind with that is like pushing it like keeping in mind and really rooted with my sisters and about like what is the agenda we want to we want to have and so so I'm excited about what's gonna happen next and I can't say publicly I also I said I was at the beginning we're coming out process I realized we are live streaming on howl rounds so hi all rightie you got two full minutes on my land I was just giving you silent support so yeah so I can't talk about the queer cultural center without talking about peacock rebellion which you know I'm the executive director and artistic director and we we have a show on Friday of course I'm gonna come here and schlock my wares so we have we run a training program buying for queer and trans people of color we use comedy for social justice and it is a partnership is because we know that we know that culture moves politics and what when I talk about power where we are this is gonna be the debut the comedy debut of Miss Major Griffin Gracie okay it's gonna be the comedy debut of CeCe McDonald right it is going to be Janetta Johnson who is the executive director of TGI justice project it's a partnership with TGI justice project Ella para trans latinas kuav quok map crew and color media arts project there are a lot of us who are coming together and it is rooted in our work so when I'm talking about power what I'm talking about is we are not only taking a stage we are pushing the campaign work forward that is what we were trying to do so we have a mic and we happen to be sexy right now and so while we do that what we were able to do with our base with our fan base is get people into the court we packed it we helped pack a courtroom last week to for a bail hearing for precious who's a who's a member of TGI justice project that is our agenda so housing right we have an opportunity in Oakland this is a secret so I'm gonna tell you on how around this is a secret we have an opportunity and we now have an office in East Oakland so when we're talking about the work and rooting this okay we are building an artist in residence program where trans women of color coming out of prison actually have housing and are building artists so so yes I'm doing that with peacock rebellion and it's like mostly on my credit card real okay so but a queer cultural center is is fissly sponsoring us has pushed as many resources that they as they can to us but it is to be to be led by trans women of color and trans fans of color and to be doing this work and the ways we leak secret discount codes for tickets we have for certain communities and community-based organizations we give you know a hundred comp tickets for each show this this Friday we'll have 800 people coming and seeing this shit this stuff so and the 7 p.m. show sold out but anyway so talk to me about that later but but in terms of the the challenges with that too it's really it's like in the last week I had you know one of my friends died two weeks before that another person I love died so challenges are also like when we're working with artists I'm having these conversations about like people are keep talking me about artistic excellence you know like this this light is going around right this like the presenting our organizations in the U.S. a lot of these folks are using artistic excellence we need to talk about artistic excellence and for me there's nothing artistically excellent about the status quo that is boring to me okay so I say okay so when we talk about artistic excellence I think re-centering and getting and taking stages and having things like this like that is artistic is artistic excellence show is in three languages that is a lot of of prep work it isn't something tacked on to the end we I am neurodiverse I'm multiply disabled so there's a lot of work that we have to do to recognize ourselves in each other as whole full people coming in and sharing our craft and community engagement as a hell of a lot more than selling tickets to a underserved community it's it's about a complete shift in the ways that we are making and claiming our artistic and cultural practices and it's about taking those back because they have been around for a lot longer than the non-profit industrial complex word yes for that five minutes I know thank you all that five minutes all right and rounding it out tie-to-foam go ahead all right thank you and just to thank the panelists everything that everyone said was just really resonating the successes and challenges and a list of challenges and a list of successes what I want to talk about I think today a little bit is about decolonizing I don't know I was thinking about decolonizing like decolonizing the theater and stories education language and especially decolonizing the mind we live in this world I think you know I'm coming from and speaking about an indigenous background of using shared leadership models that talks about the circle of life and to me that's really about art making about making theater it's about re I guess reevaluating what we place upon value within the theater system on the stages within our theater I think that's really important as well as our circle of funding and where that comes from and I think you know the goal I think or the goal is goal is that we achieve that through this this great circle there's a personal story I want to share actually because I do lots of different types of theater and I was like wow the theater is really interesting because I'm like well where's my space in the American theater if I'm a two-spirit trans identified indigenous person I'm like when I deal with lots of circles and I come from a hoop dance and we dance in circles and we tell stories in circles and I have to go to the American theater that's built in a square how am I gonna fit my circle into that square right so those are some things I think about a story goes about this about bringing theater to actual communities and have this really personal moment about creating art within a community and being out back home where things are colonized today in a contemporary society and me across from a buffet you know in Wisconsin having a salad and I think like veggie pork roast tacos or something and in the community showed up and there was this older female across from me and I came back after years you know to do work in the community and this woman didn't recognize me she thought I was my brother you know and we were talking and she was about you know 65 plus and I was like oh Lord I don't I don't have the time to really go in to explain what is happening here because this person went through boarding school era where they weren't able to sort of talk about their sexual identity as well as their gender and then you know what I was like no I'm gonna take the time out right now and discuss this with this woman and so as we got talking you know she gave me a hug and she had tears in her eyes and she was saying that um she's like you know what I've always wanted to make a costaway and a costaway is the hat that we wear in a horridoshoni nation or a coin nation that usually quote-unquote men wear and she was like I'm gonna I'm gonna do that dance I'm gonna do this so you know we went back with community engagement and sure enough she was out there in the in our circle and she was wearing that costaway you know and you could tell she was really working on herself and she just never had the chance never had the chance to self-identify to to create art so that's a personal touch and success I wanted to share and the other thing I want to talk about too is about shared leadership which I'm a huge fan of and I have a you know a social justice background as well as I feel like it's so interesting saying that that is social justice because that is my everyday life existing with all of you here and showing up with your body and space and time as an act of social justice so I think that's really important to sort of you know decolonize our bodies in our language about where we are so I think the idea is to like activate everyone to to do that especially people in these leadership positions I think it's really important it's like well you have to have a look at it from the inside outside and from all perspectives right that circle is not a flat surface that circles a sphere right you look at it from all angles and if we could try to make something like that I think we could have some kind of you know a measure of value or success what else the other thing I wanted to talk about a lose right there are these steps set standards of values well who's making those values right who's putting that measure of success upon us right we can reclaim and reinvent I think like language if we do decolonize it it's constantly evolving and that's something that's really important through administrative support you know there are times where so many challenges I could name right now where you take something just as simple as a name right a name something as simple as asking someone right the person sitting next to you right now maybe right these small things showing up in a room are really important so I want to introduce something about we evolving right we're evolving but can we evolve together so yes great before I open it up just for discussion I want to name that we have maybe like 10 15 minutes to chat and I'm gonna say that after this we have breakout sessions and in those breaks out sessions I feel like that there will be space for the audience to process some of what you heard right now but for this remaining 10 15 let's just keep it with the panel cool does anyone here want to respond to anything I'm happy to recap I was taking copious notes yeah well I I mean I would say I think that interesting part about this setup though going off of tie right your last comment about the circle in the square I just and I always think about spatial arrangements that I'm interested in the space here right right now because this is a very interesting position to be in because one we're live streaming to so you know the idea of these eyeballs these like people who are present but not present in the room so there's like sort of expectation and then there's an audience so I naturally want to engage with the eyes that are directly in front of me and it's like I just want to say that it's like a sort of a driving force and sort of consciousness I have as I'm speaking that there is people who aren't speaking that are in dialogue with us although that we're like in this little cove over here on on stage so I'm a little lost for words because I'm like hey people yeah totally do other folks have initial responses yeah I guess I have one thing to say about that too it's sort of like right like people on this this how live stream round it's like constantly asking yourself who is not in the room right if you're even identify as being trans or maybe your stealth or something like this right it's like well who isn't here like who is not at the table who's not at the circle so you know to sort of quote Carmen Morgan from Art Equity about like intention is everything right our intentions and trying to keep it at the forefront in the mind's eye who is not in the room and who do we need to bring to the table so another quote of Carmen Morgan that I was thinking about mentioning is that you know some of what I'm hearing here from a couple people's stories is about tending to other people's comforts and you know something that Carmen says a lot is that the conversation should not be dictated by the discomfort of the people in the room with the most privilege I think that's worth repeating right the conversation should not be dictated by the comfort level of the people with the most privilege serve in the conversation in the room but I feel like it takes also like a ferocious sort of rageful like confidence to actually embody that quote right like I was saying to someone who is driving me here who's talking about experiences of violence that they've had working with theaters in the Bay Area and I was talking about my experience in Chicago we did not name the theaters once to each other right and we both said we would really love to write pieces so we're also channeling our rage and anger into this sort of like super professional format and then even that we were like we're not sure we want to wait until we have positions of power so that we are not in harm's way by being honest right about our situations hence going to what you said you work at a place that lets you say whatever you want to say so I think there's also like a sort of like I feel like in the arts people love the sort of like courageous bad person who like just says what they want and just like on top of everything but for me I'm like if I actually did that every day I wouldn't have a career you know like I would not be working with anyone if I actually said like this is unacceptable like and not managed it in ways that I feel like oppressed people are taught to manage their rage and their frustration in situations it's like I've had to really take on a sort of like silent patience extreme devastation that was happening to him and his people in the sort of ways in which I feel the need to connect to people like like that in this day and age because people believe that somehow we're past the issues that we're dealing with but in so many ways it's so present that it's such a it's like such a a mind game that you have to to play right where you're trying to convince people who believe that something doesn't exist exists and that you're standing right in front of them experiencing it yeah but I just also want to speak to I think something that I thought about in preparing for this it's a tremendous burden to put on the other person the person who is trans or the person that is not like everyone else to change the minds of the world and so it takes a tremendous amount of courage but it takes it's also you need to be mindful and realistic about your the energy you you share in telling your full story so sometimes it's just too much for one person to be the gender nonconforming face of any organization that being said I think there's so many practices that can happen and I think that are at being attempted to happen that that provide the certainty that an institution can be an ally even if not understanding exactly what that means in the moment to try and promote true diversity so I guess what a thought came to my mind was in some of my experiences with donors and me being I don't want to make them uncomfortable well in the long run my self-advocacy and my authenticity is is necessary for this theater more than one gift to a campaign or one support of a show so I think as an as as institutions evolve in this world that we have that is much more nuanced and becoming more dynamic about identity and intersectionality there needs to be a partnership between the individual that is not not conforming and the organization to see how together it can be a joint effort for mutual understanding so and I think that's possible like the exploratorium did a it gets better video which is something that I don't think a lot of local arts organizations do right so this was self self promoted by the staff and completely funded by the organization as a yes we hear you and we want to support this you're not on your own for for explaining that the malleability of or the acceptance of this culture I think also something that I've experienced because I've worked for theaters a lot aside from like working in theaters as an like an artist also like when doing outreach and when trying to build one's audience and then trying to maintain like a very archaic donor base for the most part it's like why do we see those things as separate like maybe the audiences that you're trying to tap into is the new donor base maybe like if you stop coddling this archaic donor base that like is holding you back from say making the work that you tell artists and tell your program as you want to make like it's like changing the circle like changing the square into a circle right seeing like maybe our problem is that our model doesn't work maybe we need to start thinking about how the community we want to get into the theater can fund the theater from both ticket sales or maybe not ticket sales maybe we become a free theater but they're going to be funding us in a different sort of membership model whatever right this is the sort of things that I would you know say all the time in the theaters that I worked for and they weren't interested right because it's a shifting of power it's a shifting not from like a singular internship position or through strategic planning and like continuing the same archaic sort of modes of operation it's like how do we really think about the work we want to make in the communities we want to impact truly right and I and and I want to say impact by changing the dire and urgent needs of those community like I'm sorry as a black person growing up in the Bronx I wasn't necessarily interested in Shakespeare in the park you know I mean like that wasn't what I was interested at that point in my life now yes sometimes I may go but I think you know there are conversations about what communities need and how art can serve several different purposes and that's why there's a plethora of theaters but when everyone's trying to replicate theater in the park where is their room for arts organizations to speak to my experience that I had when I was growing up yeah I think we have room for maybe one more comment and then I will wrap up the panel and take us into the next section if anyone wants to name it has happened you know I think just to like re-emphasize about shifting paradigm and like reevaluating our models I mean you know yeah it's hard being like the trans like person of color that speaking so I think what you can do as an ally to each other is really like asking yourself those questions like who isn't at the table you can also I think this should also if you're a leader in your community educate yourself is like one way you know I think creating brown bags I know when I was at TCG as a fellow we did educational brown bags where we did shared leadership models where it can you know that person in the who is doing most of the administrative supportive was like you know on it and then eventually running brown bags and then can go into the community right so you think about creating something that is echoing as a response to art but also as a echoing a response to some kind of you know like show business sort of thing that's happening how do these things dialogue and talk to each other so I think there are small ways that you can you know do community engagement as well as inform each other and I just like want to underscore education education education and for all of you who need an ally like I'm there to support you know trans woman of color like that's something that I don't know too much about like I do everything in my power to sort of you know ask and uplift those folks who are and in real life facing the reality of death so yeah I feel like many sure the only one who didn't get to add another comment so I want to make space for that too you're cool you good okay cool yes I just want to name a couple things I'm gonna echo some things that came up for us and then we'll move into some breakout sessions but you know I want to say that I really feel and appreciate everything that people have been mentioning up here we in one of the artists that Lisa and I were engaging with to not be on this panel but to engage in the day you know asked us like can I speak my truth but can I come here and actually be real about my situation or am I gonna get listed not wanting to be worked with right and it was something we talked about a lot right because we want to be like yes please speak your truth this is the space for this but we also can't control you know what people's experience is gonna be as well so it's like this it's like that negotiation you know what I mean and I just want to name that that that's something like present here you know if folks are feeling challenged or uncomfortable by these thoughts you know the question is why do I feel that way right maybe not necessarily like turning it back up here but so I just want to name that and then another thing just these sort of institutional transformations or paradigm shifts that we're talking about I find that something that I encounter a lot is like when I push for that for shared power for shared leadership and I feel like it's been brought up in so many like sort of different perspectives on this panel you know a response that I get often is like sort of this free-loving collective that you know like won't be sustainable or something like that and it's not it's not a binary right it's not one thing or the other it's a process right sharing leadership and moving forward as a process and so what we've heard are like some immediate institutional strategies that you can do is to lessen the harm right the trans identified folks experience there's a lot of self education about social location right and your sort of own privilege and where you're coming from especially as a leader and then there's a lot of collaborative stuff as well right working with people in relationship yeah I'm gonna I'm just gonna lift up a couple things that I heard during this panel names sort of this idea of tending to other people's comfort and not you know that being a challenge reframing community and community engagement to see you know to move away from this sort of like selling tickets place more you know not this like transactional relationship right we had we evolving as as a sort of shared model for evolving values challenging ideas of artistic excellence and what that means building power with re-centering this idea that culture moves politics decolonizing too great I would I would also ask like is there anything else that came in this discussion that y'all just want to name something that's sitting with you right right now go ahead I mean I just want to say that again I think reframing the model and finding a new way to support our art form that goes beyond what is traditional is definitely necessary but I think there is also an opportunity specifically in this moment in time in our country and political system and what's happening right now to educate those that do have resources that do support the theater as they do right now to tell as we should have some faith and attempts to recognize the generosity of spirit of people that can make that happen now it's interesting because I was gonna say something that's in direct conflict I feel like from people who I've talked to as a younger person I'm like yeah this you know they're like yeah we've been doing this since the 60s we've been doing this since the 70s so I say if we wait for the girls to decide to step down from their positions of power and we wait for the girls to be more educated than they were in 1975 we'll be waiting until we're right like 75 years old so I'm no longer interested in waiting for people in positions of power to do anything I think it's really about taking power creating spaces and relocating the funds I'm really interested in who's interested in continuing to give these girls the money and figuring out ways to build centers for people who need housing and who are artists and who want to make work and tell their truth and how those movements can be directly related to creating equity right and creating justice for people because I see art as a way to also change the current political system so that is what I would like to say and end it with it create it there's sacrifices that need to be made not everyone is going to be happy right there are lots of people who are very unhappy right now which is why we're on this panel so saying that it's like we need to understand that sacrifices are gonna have to be made sadly I've had to sacrifice every time I've had to leave a job that was racist homophobic or transphobic so maybe you need to sacrifice by taking a break doing the education and starting over and I think that is a radical thing to say but very simple anything you too want to lift up from the conversation yeah I just want to say too that you know I think I totally agree with this statement too and then there's those folks you know that just have a lots of privilege lots of power and powers like a really tricky thing because I think like giving that up power or having that change is really uncomfortable and I just want to let those if you're sitting in this room or if you're on the live television that it's gonna be uncomfortable you're gonna get a little sweaty it's gonna feel like you know it's it's not gonna feel good but I guess like I want to uplift this with this too as the world's changing and it will we're already seeing this in universities across the country where you know I just came from the American Institute of the Arts where all of my students went by they no one had a he or she pronoun so having conversations on a daily experience like I really got to work my muscle I think of calling by everyone by their name or by they but you get into circles of education there are you know white folks who are doing this work to learning about people of color and they're also learning about gender justice and I think that's important and it's okay to have like an education buddy right it's just like it's come on though the world is changing so I just want to encourage folks who are you know I don't I don't want you to get left behind and I just also want to say I think it's coming from both angles right the solution is both to blow up the system and then to do what we can to use the resources we have to change the system because I think it will come at a meeting in the middle so any last words from Anish okay yeah so I have examples of how we've done that try to you know and so one of the things for example is you know we have a fundraising team of white folks one separate one separate team that gets very little resources and time from me and and what they do is they are I would say politically radical white folks who specifically raise money for us from other white people and they have the conversations right they have the conversations that I am out of like you know I have the white folks I can be like I am fresh out of fucks to give you all like I do not have time I don't have time I don't have time because I'm dealing with this police brutality you know like there's like real shit going on so I have the wife you know the people I trust the people who have built relationships with me in the barrier for you know for a decade or more who I can call on to handle their folks right to have those conversations and there's the work that I'm doing you know and and that kind of thing and so that's that's I think one way and then in terms of the individual donor piece I happen to have come out of both sex work and individual donor fundraising which is sex work with clothes on and so sometimes you know and and I do think that there is a thing yeah fundraising is sex work and so and I think that and then it's just it is you know and and I think the thing is that hashtag yes I want folks to feel good about the power and I don't think it's actually about anyone giving up power like I think what I what I have the conversations that way I've heard to actually be able to come back and that's what I want collective liberation everybody wins and so that is what I am invested in thanks yes what a beautiful note to end on yeah I was I just want to share Nick and I were talking the other day and they said something really beautiful that I would love to share as well which is just like in the future we are you know it is only going to benefit us to think more expansively in the future we are not gonna think back and think like dang I wish we would have been more rigid about that or I wish we would have categorized people more you know or whatever right like expansivity new word is only going to serve us so thank you so much to our panelists for speaking such beautiful and real thoughts sentiments into this space we're gonna transition into some breakout sessions and these sessions you know Lisa and tears are are going to be facilitating a session in this room for folks who do not identify on a trans spectrum in any kind of way so for cisgender folks will be in this room and then there's another rehearsal room like kitty corner here and Jack Victor who's standing in the back over there and myself will be co-facilitating that space and then we'll come back together at five is there anything else I need to say about that Lisa yeah I think that's it that's it yes so for folks on howl round who are watching we are gonna be talking about strategies specifically in these breakout sessions and also processing some of what came up on the panel if you'd like to contribute hashtag breaking the binary 2016 yeah and we'll see everyone back here at five oh we've got a question go for it correct yes well we are specifically yeah I mean that's a great question right like you know this this sort of queer community umbrella as including you know both sexuality and gender representations right this there's a lot of overlap there and I think historically it's been used for political movements is just one big thing yeah absolutely I mean intersectionality is key right like different parts of our identities hold different places of power and different you know you know experienced different oppressions right all at once right so for the purpose of this breakout if you identify on some sort of trans spectrum you'll be in that room and if you identify a cisgender you'll be in this room yeah and that no no we're I mean it's we are specifically focusing on gender not sexuality not sexuality yes and also yeah there's there's nothing no negativity against against you know because there may be lots of trans lesbians in the other room so you know you know yeah and we'll be back in an hour sharing out all is good thank you so much take we'll take a moment to transition cheers