 is Jyoti from COEP, myself and my colleague Abhijitha are there from COEP. This is our C programming course for the first year students, who start with the introduction to various operating systems and programming in C and C++ both languages. But basically we only teach them the C, we give only the introduction to C++. Then our actual syllabus starts from unit 1, that is introduction to programming training learnings, that are what is instruction, what are data types and that is all loops and various statements and its types. Then second unit is about the functions, third unit continues with the arrays. Then we go for the pointers, pointers to each means pointers to functions, pointers to arrays, pointers to other data types, everything is covered in this chapter. Then unit 5 is structures and unions, it is everything, all the chapters are in detail and all the assignments for the various chapters are carried out. Then we have the last unit for the files and graphics, these are the various, you can say various reference books that we provide. What is seen there is different, you can see the whole thing, they have zoomed it up, therefore it is like. It is okay, these are the reference books, apart from these books each faculty suggest another book, means whatever he has referred in his college days or in his research work. See if the students are very new to C programming or in the first year because everybody is not aware of all the computers and other languages, they can refer the Yashwan connector and those students who are having some background, means in 12th standard they are having computers, means computer as a their subject, so they can have already learnt C or C++ whatever they are learnt. So, they can refer any other reference book, for example we can suggest them the C++ complete reference by Herbert Schild, it is by my side. Then the pattern of this C programming is we are having lectures, lecture hours for 3 hours per week and each theory session is of 1 hour, means in a week we are having total 3 hours and then for the lab session we are having 2 hours per week. There are 5 divisions in our institution, so total 3 faculty members are allocated. I am taking one batch, means one division and other two are taking two two divisions. There is one tutorial hour is also allocated, if students are having any queries means they can ask us to take any extra lecture but it depends, it is not compulsory that you have to take the tutorial session or not. Then evaluation scheme, we evaluate the students based on assignments that are given time to time to students, means after end of each unit we are giving them theory assignments, practical assignments and these practical assignments are different from the assignments that we are giving in a lab session, these are the combinations of hard assignments and simple assignments. Then we evaluate them using the quiz test means we conduct 2 quiz test, train marks each. We also conduct surprise test means these are also of 10 and 10 marks, these are the 2 tests. Then midterm examination we are having for the 30 marks and same is for 50 marks. Then practical examination is there, after end of the final exam it is of 50 marks and assignments marks are also there, these are of 50 marks. Finally all these marks are converted into 100 marks and finally we are giving the relative grading to them. What is the weightage? The lab and lecture course are treated separately. Yes separately. So, for the lecture course usually of quizzes for 20 marks, surprise test for 20 marks, mid semester for 30 marks and end semester for 50 marks. 50 marks. So, the total is 120 marks. So, but that is 50 marks for final and mid-same quiz surprise test, though it is of 70 marks, it is converted into 50 marks. So, the weightage is 50 marks for in semester evaluation and 50 marks for exam. Yes sir. And practical exam is separate or that is 50 marks. That is for the lab. Yeah, for lab. Because we have a separate course number there, 60, 1, 0. Yes, separate course number. So, the lab exam is 50 marks. Yeah, that is of 50 marks. There also in semester marks are given for the first time. Yes sir, 50 marks are there for assignments. So, that means practical assignments. Yes sir, total 100 marks. So, that means practical assignments. Yes sir, total 100 marks. And how many teachers conduct the lab? So, we are having three faculties that are teaching C programming for the first year students. And all are present during the lab sessions and total one division is having three batches. Each is having 22 students in each batch. And we are having two ME students as technical assistants plus our self and plus other non-teaching staff is also there. If any queries are there with the connection, then they are for that purpose. Essentially, as far as the subject matter is concerned, it is these three teachers plus two ME. Yes sir. We are having. But if you have three batches of 22 students for each division. Yes sir. And you have five divisions. Yes sir. So, you are talking about 15 sort of lab batches. Yes sir. Into two hours. Yes sir. That is 30 hours. Yes sir. Usually teaching assistants in IIT are supposed to work for 6 to 8 hours a week. Okay. So, in your case they must be working for 15 hours a week. If they have a specific for 30 hours. Yes sir. Sir. Yes. IIT. Sir. This is called Bandhuva Masudra. Yeah, please. Although the teaching faculty is the same, but lab assistants keep changing at times. So, for different batches there will be different ME students as lab assistants. Yes sir. We have more ME students. Yes sir. There are more ME students. So, at any time you will have two in a lab. Yeah. I am having two assistants. Other might be having other two assistants and third one other. Yes sir. That is the point. Yes sir. I thought just two students are allocated to the program. No sir, no. And we are having all the practicals based on Unix. We use it. We use Telnet. We are having a separate lab for computer programming. And I think it is having 25 plus 25-50 pieces. And some are extra if any problem is there with one piece so that other students. For two batches simultaneously. Yes sir. For two batches. So, we are having LCD projectors in classrooms as well as practical rooms also. Sorry, you have. LCD projectors. Wonderful. So, you can use. Yes sir. Machine slides. Yes sir. Machine slides. Yes sir. And we are having whiteboards also. If students needs some certain explanation, we can do that one. No sir, we actually form the group. In the website for the subject where you push all your lecture slides. No sir, actually we do not have any website for a particular course. But we can form other groups with the help of Google groups and all. Like that. So, we are having separate groups for first year, separate group for all the students of COEP, separate group for all the students of only computer branch. So, we are having. Like separate groups. Yes sir. Yes sir. Email ID. We are having both options using the email ID that are provided by COEP as well as if internally we want to do our adjustment for means for the easy ability of teachers and students. I ask this question. This one. This one. Because what we have found is that many of these students' problems are actually resolved by students themselves if you provide them a discussion environment. And therefore the problems that come up to your level for resolution would reduce. Particularly when you have large number of students. Yes sir. Otherwise you may end up answering similar questions again and again. No. Whether at least we have, it might be a good idea to roll the site. Anyway we are coming to use model which could perhaps be useful. Yes sir. Okay. It is definitely useful. So, this is our. You have exam papers. Yes sir. I am having it. So, you are an autonomous student now. Yes sir. At least the advantages of. So, we means this particular question pattern varies for each semester. Means this pattern is not same for all the semesters. I mean we can give flexibility in questions, attempting the questions. We provide extra 10 marks. So that student can means we are providing total paper of 60 marks and student can attempt 50 marks. And certain questions are in extra. If suppose there are any theory questions, theoretical questions. I do not see any programming problem in this whole page. Sir, in the last semester we had complete programming. I mean in the middle same, in the mid-same exam. This is for final same. In mid-same we are having complete paper based on programming. Means I think 20 marks we are giving for the programming. This total out of 30. That is your mid-same. That mid-same. Sir, it is also mixture of theoretical plus this one. There is a huge pedagogical challenge here actually. Because I mean I have been teaching programming. I learned programming here when I first came. Since 1969 that I have entered here. I have not seen a single question or a single part in any paper so far of this type. So that is a very major change for me to psychologically adjust to this pattern. Because as we agree our combined effort must give something for this as well as something else. But back home I would suggest that you should go back. Now that you have an institution which is autonomous. You may probably break away from the past. See this might be the legacy of the past tense. You know that earlier in the university system when you had an application that somebody else may be setting the paper. Now suppose I put myself into your shoes. I have joined there as a teacher. Now what is the background information I have is past examination, past syllabus. So although you tell me that I am autonomous. I will more or less go by that pattern. Because severe students who tell the severe students what to expect. They also have seen this kind of. It may take some time to change. But what can trigger the change? If I become comfortable with this, students are comfortable with this. Then for 4 or 5 years when I teach, I will teach exactly like this. So what could be the trigger for change if at all? Anywhere for that. Sir I would like to add one more point. Because we are conducting assignments. Means we are giving different assignments after end of each unit. These are only practical one. These are different from assignments that we are giving in the lab session. So here we are covering the programming part. What you are saying is that. We think also. Exam from lab is essentially all practical. Yes sir it is essential. Plus 20 marks in the mid sem is also all practical. Yes sir. And therefore you think that these kind of theory questions are justified to bring out. Yes sir. What happened in Vaiva? That students don't means students are more practical oriented only. Those are means if we ask very very silly and stupid simple simple questions. They were unable to answer this. This was the fact. So we tried it to divide the marks in such a way. In two different ways. So we are expecting example also. And in example whenever we are teaching them. We suggest them whenever example is asked. You please give a proper example at least a code. Means main part of the program. You provide that one. And we will give you the marks according to that example. That is the theoretical plus programming part is there. I am reminded of a situation in the mid 70s. And Michaeli plus Sardar used to teach business data processing. And one of the problems he had said write a cover program for. And then he had to find the problem. One of the students had written a cover program. Which had no bearing on to the question. Now in the question paper all of us write at the beginning. In case of any difficulty make reasonable assumptions and state those which are stated. So when Sardar confronted him what have you written. He said sir you did not read my assumption. The assumption says since I did not understand this problem. I have written a program to solve the following problem. Now what it means is that if I have a prepare the program in my mind. Then the examination does not force me to think at all. I can just blurt it out. Whereas if there is a problem and definitely unknown problem. Then at least I have to think. This is one aspect in pedagogy I will mention it again tomorrow. See one of the problems that our system has is. Evaluation is considered a beast to judge the student performance only. It is not considered an important learning environment. Actually as a sort of policy. As teachers we must examine how much additional learning my student does. After solving a question. If there is zero learning then I and students all have wasted our time. Now that philosophy is not told to us when we become teachers. And therefore we also tend to believe that evaluation is for judging students performance only. Of course that is an objective that is the main objective. But this should be the objective. Because this is the only I have seen. Now these questions are put in the sense that they do bring out the understanding of it. My worry is that do they bring out the understanding or do they bring out the mugging? No sir we can quickly find out who has written it by own words. Or from the book language. So we can give the marks accordingly. And we... Yes sir. Yes sir. Sir one more whenever we are conducting the lab hours. We are giving means we are checking for the each student what he has performed. And at that time only we are checking the files, programs or whatever write up he has brought. And we are allocating the marks at that time itself. If a student does it one week later we are reducing the two marks for each practical. Yes sir. So that we are not having any burden at the time of submission. We have to only sign the file. And the papers are set by your group of teachers only. Yes sir. Of course now you are autonomous so that will be it. Yes sir. And since everybody teaches the same syllabus roughly in the same pattern. Yes sir. Do you have group discussions amongst your group before paper setting or before deciding on the... Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir. And during the start of the each semester our group stands and we give the separate assignment that are different from the last two years at least two years. Wonderful. Because sir we are giving the separate... The college is making specific efforts to ensure that they won't repeat anything in the past. And we are not expecting that they would write the theoretical part in the file. Because sir if some people are new for this course means they are already getting some late programming done. So that's why we have skipped that one. And we already prepare one manual. We give it as it is to the students. And what they have to perform in the practical session that is mentioned only there. You also have this problem where the students come with a mixed background. Some people already done programming. Yes sir. Yes sir. Same problem. No. Thank you sir. Okay. The general question. When you are asking like this is not to do a lot but generally when we say what is namespace or what is a friend function is it possible to rephrase the question in such a way that they don't just define it but they use the concept of friend function in the answer. Like you know framing the questions in a different way such that theoretically it can still be answered. Yes. The answer cannot be from somebody who was mugged yet. Yeah. But still they have to understand really what a friend function is or what a name space is. A lot of these interview questions usually ask that way like say Microsoft interviews they don't ask what is a friend function. They ask some multiple choice questions which make you think. And you have to know what a friend function is before you answer that. So is it possible that we can think of questions like that to modify the way we ask such questions when necessary? Yeah. It is definitely possible but what problem is that we are having a fixed lot to read the question paper and to prepare the answers for the question paper and to write the actual answers. So students are having only one and half hour. So if the question length becomes more then at least half minute is going to be spent on each question. So that's why we are only specifically specifying the specific question. Although we are digressing but I am getting to comment on both the questions in the answer. When they are the correct answer is yes it is possible but it is actually more difficult to phrase questions like that. That's right. So actually if you ask me our effort, my effort would be to try and use this huge group of persons to actually think in that way and continue questions in that way. It's not easy to frame multiple choice questions which will force people to think properly. Okay. Because there are other parological issues. For example I might guess and I might make an educated guess which increases the probability of my answer being right without actually understanding the question, etc. If you have the multiple choice but any other type of question, Yes. Now the other problem that you mentioned can be easily solved. What is the sanctity of one and half hour? Suppose you say that my paper will be for three hours. Earlier you could not do that. Five years ago you could not do that. Today you can do that. But it may not have occurred to you to think like that. Because what happens as teachers, all of us are used to a set pattern and generally we don't think outside the pattern. In fact my first shock in life when I came from Indore here in 1969 was Professor Isaac's question paper which said two across onwards. This was an exam test, open book test, two across onwards. So I asked my colleague, a friend of mine who was from IIT, he said Isaac's papers are like that. So it may be emotionally one hour test but it will go on for two to three hours. There are 13-14 students in that class. This was my first brush with open book exam. So I carried about five books there. I thought I am clever enough so I figured it out. Two hours I was only reading those books. And nothing I could not figure out. When I tried to solve this question, he would actually come and slap me on the back and say, So there was a huge laughing. Three hours, three and a half hours I took. Five, thirty, six o'clock. And I was not the last person going. Now this flexibility he could exercise because he knew that he was the supreme lord of that subject. We as teachers have to treat ourselves as the only person responsible for that subject. Nobody else in government. Yes, sir. So you may want to think like this. Suppose this is the reason why you cannot put larger questions, put it like that. Okay. Then you say, okay, extra half an hour for reading the question. Yes sir, it's fine. It's fine and it's definitely possible. Think about it. Yes sir. Thank you.