 We're going to start the day off with Kathleen Martin, and Kathleen Martin, as you all know, is Denise, our co-pilot. And it was many party kills, our comps, their abduction, that kind of terrible thing on that, on that side of the road. And then, of course, we've got our Roswell people here too, you know. Of course, Roswell started with our big thing, you know, the New York Old Community. And so anytime you might be, we've got a lot of great guest speakers coming in today, so you're going to enjoy yourself, and you're going to learn a lot too. But anyhow, I'm going to have to take up your time, but I'll let me if you wish to, Kathleen Martin. Okay, Kathleen? Thank you. I hope everyone had a good night's sleep after that group meal last night. And I just need to bring this back, and again, we've been testing this out. So, again, this is Captured for Betty Martin Hill UFO Experience. Many people have asked me why I decided to research and investigate my aunt and uncle's UFO sighting, and why I decided to write a book about it, when other books had been written about it, the introduction journey primarily, but it had been mentioned in other books. And my reply to that is, in 1988, I watched a television series called Cosmos. Carl Sagan was aunt, and Carl presented the story of Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience. And it showed Betty and Barney riding down the highway, very, very dark night, torrential downpours, the windshield wipers were swishing back and forth, the radio was on, there was a lot of static, and Betty was turning the knob as she was nervously looking up at the sky. And Barney was saying, don't worry, Betty, it's only a plane or a satellite or something. And all of that was false. I actually contacted Steve Markle, who is the chief meteorologist at the Mount Washington Weather Station in New Hampshire, and I asked him to look into his archival records. I wanted to know exactly what the weather conditions were that night. So I did all of the research myself, although other researchers had done it. I didn't want to believe anything that anyone said. Well, Steve Markle told me that it was a light, bright night atop the rock. It was what he called Mount Washington. And the visibility was 130 miles. There were high, cirrus clouds covering about 60% of the sky, but they were the type of clouds that you can see through. So you could see the stars through. There was a waxing gibbous moon. It would be full in six days. So it was not raining. It was not an inversion, a temperature inversion that night that would make distant objects appear closer than they were. It was a great night for observing this, and Betty told me that the radio was not on. So all of that was false. Then I knew it was March 4, 1993. I had already started investigating this, but Carl Sagan, again, published an article in Parade Magazine. There was read by thousands and thousands of people. And in that article, he wrote that Betty and Barney were driving through the desolate area in the White Mountains at night and that Betty sighted a star-like object and that it seemed to be following them. Nervous, they turned off the main highway onto narrow winding mountain roads. Arrived home later than anticipated, and then two weeks later she had a dream about being abducted and convinced Barney that they had both been abducted. That was also a lie. Well, Stan Friedman, who went to the University of Chicago, who was a classmate of Carl Sagan, they were adversaries about UFOs, Carl sent a review copy of this article to Stan. And Stan wrote back, sales-based, a 12-page letter pointing out all of the mistakes that Carl had made. Well, this was two months before the article was published and Carl changed only one thing. And that was, he said that Betty and Barney were a childless couple. And Barney had two sons by a previous marriage and Betty had adopted her first husband's three children. He changed that. He didn't change any of the rest of his misinformation. And even though he was an astronomer, he played amateur psychologist in this. And if you attended my lecture yesterday, you learned about hypnagogic sleep states, hypnopropic sleep states, sleep paralysis, and that sort of thing. Carl was completely wrong when he was talking about the idea that this, a hallucination, that a hallucination could actually explain UFO abduction. Because we know that it's internally generated. There's absolutely no physical evidence in a hallucination. And in a hallucination, it is very short. You don't have a complex narrative in a hallucination. That's a delusion. So, let us begin. I'd like to introduce you to my aunt and uncle, Betty and Barney Hill. Betty was born on June 28, 1919. She was the oldest child of Florence and Raymond Barrett. She grew up in South Kingston, New Hampshire, and there were five children in the family. My mother was Betty's younger sister. Betty was a very bright child. At a time when very few people went on to college, Betty did go to college. She graduated from college with a degree in social work. She worked for the state of New Hampshire as a social worker and a child welfare worker. And eventually was promoted to the position of supervisor. She died in October of 2004 from lung cancer. It was the third cancer, independent cancer, not related that she had, starting in the 1990s. The last one didn't have to size the others did not. Barney was the youngest in his family. He was born on July 20, 1922. He was born in Newport, New York, Virginia, and grew up in Virginia and on the family farm and also in Philadelphia. He became very discouraged in high school. He had an IQ of 140, a very bright student. He wanted to become a civil engineer. He was advised that because he was African-American, there was no work for him in that field. He would never be hired. He became discouraged. He dropped out of high school and went into the army just before the outbreak of World War II. He later went back and did earn his high school diploma. But during World War II, he served honorably. He was a truck driver and a marksman. He was wounded during the war, discharged in fair condition, and his military records state that he was an excellent character. He worked for the postdocs, married and had two children. He and his first wife divorced. He met Betty. They were both activists in the civil rights movement. Although they never intended to fall in love and get married, it was pretty difficult during that time. And certainly in the state of Virginia, where he grew up, there were anti-miscegenation laws. So it was against the law for them to even enter that state as a married couple along the 17 other states. But they were married and they had very good marriage. This is the dog, Dalcy, who is along on the trip. Dalcy also experienced some physical, physiological problems after the encounter with the UFO. She developed a fungus infection and she had what seemed to be nightmares. These were new. She would wolf while she was sleeping and her little legs would run. And Betty said that this was not characteristic behavior for Dalcy. Well, Betty and Barney left for Niagara Falls on September 17, 1961. They hadn't had a great honeymoon. They got married in New Jersey and then traveled to Betty's home in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Barney wanted to surprise Betty. She had a week's vacation from the welfare department and he asked for a few days off from his job post office and surprised her with this trip. I think that they probably went because I had gone to Niagara Falls about a month before that. And I enjoyed it so much. I was showing Betty and Barney my photographs and talking about it. Betty had never been to Niagara Falls. So I think that's what gave Barney the idea. And I also like to show this photograph of myself because the debunkers all say that I was only three years old when all of this happened and could possibly remember what I'm talking about. They obviously see that I was not three. I was 13. Well, this is the route that Betty and Barney took on their trip. They first went to Niagara Falls, then they drove up, spent the night in the Thousand Islands area and went on to Montreal the next day on the 19th. They thought it's been the night in Montreal, but the road signs were in French. Everyone was speaking French when Barney went to ask for directions when he was lost. They showed him the men's room and he didn't have a good map of the suit. So he decided to just drive to the outskirts and drive on, and if they retired, that they would stop on their way home. Somewhere along the line, they did hear that there was a hurricane coming up the coast and it would be a good idea if they did travel towards them that night. But Barney was accustomed to staying up all night long. He worked the graveyard shifts at the post office. This is the road that they took from Montreal down from New Hampshire or the New Hampshire. They went from Montreal to Coatecote on Route 112 and then from Coatecote. They took 141 down to Route 3 to Coatecote, New Hampshire. This is Coatecote. If you read or have heard anything that the revampers will tell you, they have said that Barney was so upset because he was confronted by hoodlums when he was in Canada and that they harassed him because he was a big white woman. And that this caused him so much emotional distress that when he was looking out at that alleged UFO that was actually a conventional aircraft, he hallucinated hoodlums looking back down at him. Well, all of that, of course, is false as well. Betty and Barney did go into a restaurant in Coatecote. He did see young men in there. There were two young men who had what he called duck bill haircuts. He associated that with hoodlums and went on guard momentarily. But then he discovered that they were very nice young men. They were dressed in conventional clothing. They ate. They used the rest of their Canadian money and they moved on and had a very pleasant time at that restaurant. Barney was a little upset with himself because he realized that he had stereotyped them and he really had a problem with people stereotyping him. Well, they were driving home along the way. They traveled over a gravel road. It was a very nice gravel road between Coatecote and Northern New Hampshire. And Dr. Simon asked Barney what kind of room he was in. He was looking for any distress. And I want to play to you now the first recording of Barney's answer to Dr. Simon. We're going to hear that. It's not really clear. These are the original hypnosis tapes. I did have them put on to CD. But they were not clear to begin with. But Barney was stating that he was in good spirits. He was in high spirits. He had a delightful day. And he felt he could drive on down a dream country without a problem. So they passed through U.S. customs in Canaan, Vermont. And this is the room that they took through the northern and central part of New Hampshire. Here we have Colbroke. Here's Lancaster and his twin mountain. In Colbroke, they stopped for another step. This is going to be their last opportunity to have a cup of coffee before they traveled on to New Hampshire. They were about two to three hours. Actually, it was about three hours away from their home in Portsmouth. I've driven this room over and over again, measuring distance and time, driving at the rate of speed that Barney reported that he was driving at stopping, at the stops that he reported he stopped at. In order to attempt to become lost, all in order to attempt to have resting time. And I couldn't do it. So they stopped at Howard's Restaurant, they checked their watches, and they went on to Lancaster. And they're driving along, and just south of Lancaster, it was about 10.50 when they arrived there, so it was a little later than that. Ben noticed a new light in the sky. A month later, she reported this to Walter Webb from NICAP. And I told you about Walter Webb yesterday. I got his background. He was a astronomer. He worked at the Hayden Planetarium in Boston. And he interviewed Betty and Barney separate and together for six hours. And what they told him is that Betty's eyes were drawn to this new light in the sky. The couple initially thought they were observing a falling star, only it moved upward, a plane or a satellite. So though that is a quote of what Walter wrote in his original confidential report. Well, Betty continued to watch this as Barney drove along, watching the road. And it was coming closer and closer, and it really spurred her interest. And she told Barney she wanted to stomp so that she could get a better look at this through binoculars. He really didn't want to. He wanted to drive on. He was a confirmed skeptic. He didn't believe that UFOs were real. But she told him that Delcey was restless and Delcey needed to go for a walk. So he did stop. He found a roadside stop at a mountain in one picnic area south of Twin Mountain. It was about 11.20 when they arrived there by my calculations. And they got out of the car. And I'm going to play for you what Betty saw. It traveled across almost face of the moon. And it was odd shit. All different colors of light. Robert Shaker will tell you that this was the planet Jupiter that Betty saw. And Betty wrote to him that the planet Jupiter was in front of the face of the moon flashing multi-colored lights. And he replied in a very, very nasty letter. He's kind of a nasty guy. Too bad. And he continues to tell the same story for all of these years. So Barney got out of the car. He had walked Delcey. He went to the trunk of the car and removed a pistol. The reason he did that is because they were in a picnic area. There were bears in the area. And he was afraid that the bears would come out of the woods. And he was a city person and he was afraid of bears. So he took the gun out for protection against the bears initially. What he did is he took the binoculars from Betty and watched this crowd as they traveled toward Vermont in a northwest direction. And then without turning, it suddenly shot back at him so rapidly that you could see the windows in it at that point. It was unconventional. It was silent. And it did not have conventional light. Next, they entered Franconia Notch. This was four miles south of the Mount Cleveland picnic area. This is Franconia Notch in the fall. It's a beautiful tourist area. As they passed by Cannon Mountain, Betty noticed the tower on top of Cannon Mountain. The craft passed over the top of the tower and the steady light on the tower went out as the craft passed over it. They decided to stop again. And they stopped by the old man of the mountain, which is on the back side of Cannon Mountain. And this face fell, so it was a stone granite profile. It fell in May of 2003. It was our state symbol, unfortunately. We no longer have it. But the important part here is that between the old man's forehead and chin was 48 feet. And that is important because they said that the craft came around and stopped by the old man's profile. And it was at least one and a half times the length of the old man's profile. They had stopped. They had gotten out of the vehicle. What you're seeing here is a profile lake. It's just underneath the old man's profile. And actually he fell into part of it, fell into the lake in 2003. And I'm going to play for you now Barney's description of what he saw when he got out of the car on the second stop. So we returned to the car. Barney was driving very slowly at this point to Franconia Notch. While Betty was watching the craft as it traveled along the top of the mountains, sometimes coming down in front of the mountains, sometimes behind the mountain, was traveling sometimes in a spare pattern. And she was very intrigued by what she was seeing. They came out of Franconia Notch at Indian Head. This is Indian Head. And right across the street from Indian Head are some cabins. The Indian Head Resort is there now. It's a beautiful resort. I highly recommend that you go there and stay there if you go to New Hampshire. They are currently renting a monument to Betty and Barney Hill. And they will have a travel guide so that you can actually, if you stay there, get their travel guide and follow this route yourself. So I'm pretty excited about the fact that there will be a monument for Betty and Barney there. But getting back to what happened next, Barney stated to Dr. Simon when he saw these cabins that he felt safe and less of the barren hostility of the wooded area. He said, I've been there before and I feel confident that I see a familiar place. Betty was becoming excited. And Barney said, Betty rarely became excited over anything. So he thought maybe he'd find a place where he could pull over again. And he's driving around and looking. And he saw Natureland, which was the little tourist area. And couldn't pull over there. But as he was driving along, he was forced to stop. The craft had shifted ahead and stopped just to the right of U.S. Highway Route 3. And this is the off season. There were not other vehicles on the road then. Failure now is pretty heavily populated. It's very different. You'll see cars. But at that time of night, on that night, Betty and Barney did not see another vehicle. And it's a good thing, because Barney stopped that car right in the middle of the highway, straddling the center strip, the center line, and got out to look at this craft. And while Betty sat in the car, watching it. And he said it continued to have a forward look, facing me as if it swung and did not move from its position, but just swung from position with the front still facing me. And it moved to my left. And I continued to look and I began walking across the highway. That's what he told Walter Webb in the confidential report in October 1961. He also told Walter, the figures were dressed in shiny black uniforms and black hats with bills. And reminded Barney of the cold precision of German officers. The leader of the linear held a special attraction for Barney. He could always feel the leader's intense concentration to carry out a plan. Barney was questioned about this event several times by Dr. Simon. And what I'm going to play for you now is the tape of Barney's first hypnotic regression with Dr. Simon. So that you can actually hear the intensity of emotion in his voice as he relived this experience. This is the point where he experienced just after this a mental block. Just keep looking and stay there. And just keep looking. Yeah, just keep looking. See, could you hear each other? All I got was a voice that was away from my eyes. But if I come out, just keep standing. It's all about, he didn't say it. He felt he said it. I don't. You know, he's just there. Yeah. This data here, he seemed to be in a row. If anybody has this, all right, go on without a little wait. God, give me a chance. All right. Hold on. God, give me a chance. Get away. Move out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. Here's the microwave. All of this wasn't going to blacken me. Blacken me. You can see, you can hear the intensity of emotion in Barney's response to what he saw on board that crap. He had a conscious recollection of encountering a non-human being being and he in his original report in October of 1961 described what he saw to Walter Webb. He simply could not remember their facial features at that point. There was something about him that terrified him and caused him to have Now I'm going to play the same hundred rendition but this is a later hypnotic regression and Barney has calmed down, he's undergone his outreaction and catharsis and now he is more rational about his experience. Run back to the vehicle thinking that he was in danger of being captured and he stated that as he entered his car, the craft moved overhead and when it did he started speeding down the highway and I'm going to play for you now what Betty described because is that craft covered over your vehicle? They put a series of beeping, what Betty called beeping sounds, code like mechanical beeping sounds, what Barney called buzzing sounds, different words to describe the same thing. All I can think of is electrical signals. Maybe this is the mouse code but I don't know it. Maybe it's electrical, it's the shock. So I put my hand on the metal of the car, I kept feeling and I didn't feel any shock, a winter shock that the whole car was vibrating. The whole car was vibrating and that vibration caused a tingling sensation to pass through Betty's and Barney's bodies. When that happened they stopped speaking to each other and they didn't speak again until they were 35 miles down the highway and it seemed that only an instant had passed. As I listened to their separate hypnosis tapes they suddenly find themselves on a new road that they haven't been on before and there are tall trees all around. Betty attempted to find a rational explanation and just thought that they must have been continuing to drive down US Highway 3 and then made a left hand turn onto Route 175 which runs parallel to Route 3 but there's no evidence of that on the hypnosis tapes. So somehow they got from Route 3 over to Route 175 to a new area. It was a long pause after these beeping and buzzing sounds and suddenly they're in a new location. Perhaps that crap picked their car up, they have been known to pick up other cars. Let's take a look at their timeline. Here's the first stop at 1050 south of Twin Mountain. Here's the old man of the mountain, the second stop at about 1150. Actually, Betty said that as they passed Cannon Mountain she glanced at her watch and it was 1120. So I might have been a little too liberal but I wanted to make sure that I added time to this to try to find a rational or a mundane explanation for what happened to those. So I may be off there. Here's the encounter field, the third stop that was about 1250 by my calculation and down here is the capture site. The hills remembered a road block and they remembered men in the road. They didn't know when, where it occurred. This is part of their conscious recollection. They remember, I'm going to play for you now, what Barney told Dr. Simon about that fiery bullet. I can't remember anything about and then I don't remember and now I remember. See this was after the hypnosis. He always had these shadowy memories of a road block. He had very consciously recalled this fiery orb. They attempted to rationalize that perhaps it was the moon setting. But it didn't fit the characteristics of a setting moon. And Barney realized that this object was moving but he was not moving. Oh and they drove on, they passed through point of New Hampshire and they heard their second series of code like beeping or buzzing sounds. This brought them back to full consciousness. This is when Barney stopped the car, he shifted from side to side on the road. He attempted to create this type of sound and wasn't able to do that. Betty said to him, well now he believes in flying saucers and he said, don't be ridiculous, there's no such thing. And then they drove down, here's Plymouth, Ashland. This is actually a 1960 road map of New Hampshire. In Northfield they recalled seeing the sign that said 17 miles to Confrost. Here's Confrost, the state capital. And then they made a beeline over here to Portsmouth, New Hampshire thinking that they would arrive at 3 a.m. at the latest but it was 5.15. They checked their watches and their watches had both stopped. They finally went into the kitchen and checked the clock. Well, Betty walked delci the dog. He felt a strange sensation in his groin. He checked his groin, went into the bathroom. Didn't see anything there. But a couple of months later, 21, 3 quarter inch groves had grown in a concentric circle on his groin. They were later removed. They became inflamed while he was undergoing hypnosis with Dr. Simon. The lab report confirmed that they were not venereal warts. He and Betty felt planning as if they'd been contaminated and they really did worry about contamination. And the watches that had stopped never worked again. And his binocular strap was broken. The tops of his shoes were scraped, not just scuffed, but scraped. And he was a meticulous dresser. After that, he had to wear these shoes for yard work. They sat down in separate rooms and Betty sketched the practice. She recalled seeing it, seen it from her position in the car. This is Barney's sketch. He had seen it from next to the car and also from the field. And so he said, this is how it looked when it was about 200 feet high. That was when it was beside the highway on the right side or the west side of their vehicle. And then it descended to within about 100 feet of their vehicle. And there was a little red light on each side there. And this is how it looked when it shifted over the highway, descending to about 100 feet over the field. And these little fin-like structures appeared to come out with a red light on each end. And you can see the little figures that he drew the day he arrived home. So if anyone tells you that all of this was recovered under hypnosis, you have proof now that they had full conscious recollection of everything except for the abduction itself. Well, Betty took off her dress. And when she did, she noticed that the zipper was torn at the top. There was an inch, one and a half inch tear on one side, an inch tear on the other side. There was a tear in the fifth zipper fabric and in the stitching. This was a new dress. How did this happen? To a woman riding as a passenger in a vehicle down the highway. The lining was torn from waist to hemline. The hem was torn down on one side of her dress. She folded it and placed it in her closet, knowing that she'd have to repair it. But the next time she took it out, there was a pink powdery substance on that dress. She hung it out on the clothesline. The pink powder blew away, but she noticed that the dress was permanently stained. She decided to throw it away. But that on second thought, she thought that it might hold a clue to what happened to her on that night. So she saved that dress, and it has undergone laboratory analysis five separate times. No one has ever been able to identify what that pink powdery substance is. I'm looking for a PhD botanist who might be able to look at it to see if it's some kind of fungus or mold. But if you go online to the Black Vault Encyclopedia, Phyllis Buttinger's report is on there. It's at UT025. And I just want to point out, you can see here the blue, this is the blue color of the dress. You can see the discoloration. And something that Betty told Phyllis and told me as well is that the areas where they actually touched her are the areas that were most saturated by that pink powdery substance. They grabbed her with their very long, narrow hands around her armpits. You can see on the hem where it dropped down to the floor. And also there's discoloration up in that zipper area. This is Phyllis Buttinger. She has a master's degree in chemistry. She's a research scientist. She's retired now. She works as a consultant sometimes. And she has her own laboratory. She worked for VP Atoco, which was formerly Standard Oil for 35 years. It's specialized in petroleum, chemical, and polymer analysis using spectroscopic techniques. And I have such a high degree of respect for her. She did the most thorough chemical analysis of anybody. I write about it in the book, or you can go online to the full 47-page report that she wrote. There was an oil type substance on the exterior of that dress that did not belong to Betty. This was externally deposited there by something else. So it's quite interesting. Phyllis ended up, this is an employer, she wrote this today. Her conclusion was, I am convinced that the event did happen and determined by the chemical analysis I did on Betty's dress. Well, Betty then phoned my mother and my body said that they should never tell anybody about this. No good could possibly come out of telling anyone about this event. So Betty then went to the telephone and immediately called my mother, her sister, and talked to her. Because Betty was so concerned that they might be contaminated and we had a neighbor who was a physicist. My mother called her neighbor and he suggested for some reason and I'll never understand this, but he suggested that Betty take a compass that she had on and go out to the car and to see how the needle on the compass would react. Now we know it's going to fluctuate when you put it over the engine, put it over the battery, but she started all the way to let her tell you how to work, what she did. And the compass will tell you that it was experimented with the compass and the compass behaved normally. It didn't spin and Betty was making all of this up. But let's hear from Barney what happened. So you can see again that the debunkers aligned were in the exact location where the hills said they heard the beeping or buzzing sounds that caused their vehicle to vibrate and their bodies to tingle. I actually saw these spots, they were the members of my family. We were at Betty's house within a day or two of the time of the trip. Betty washed and waxed her vehicle that fall, but the spots would not rub out. But they faded away over the winter of 1961 and 1962. And in my woke-up shirt, I do have included a letter that Betty wrote to Walter Webb about a meeting that she had with several Air Force officers about those spots and their opinions on what they might be. A number of people have speculated that they might be just weather spots. Weather spots are caused when it rains and pollutants drop down from the environmental pollutants, drop down and deposit on the trunk of the car. And then the sun comes out and bakes those environmental pollutants on. You have to actually buy a chemical compound and rub those out and can't get them out. But that is not what was on Betty and Barney's car. That's not what they looked like. It had been raining, but the sun didn't come out. It was continuing to rain that afternoon, that evening. And they had not been there the day before. This is what they looked like. Not this. Well, Betty was excited. She called her mother back. And the chief of police of Newton, who was actually the former chief of police at that point, he had to resign shortly before that. But he was my father's best friend. And he came to the house every night and had a cup of coffee on his way home from work. And he told Betty that she should report this to the Air Force, that the police departments had all received instructions from P's Air Force base for people to call them to report their UFO signs. So that's what she and Barney did. You can see the original report. It's in the appendix of my book. This is the original hand written report right here. And already there's a cover-up going on. It says that there was a strong inversion in the Lincoln New Hampshire area. Now we already know from what I've told you from the chief meteorologist from Mount Washington Weather Station that there was not a strong inversion that night when they passed through. The inversion set up in some of the lower valleys the following morning after they had already arrived home. And the original report up here, you'll see that it's hand checked that it was picked up on air intercept radar and ground visual radar. And this is the radar report. Every other report after this does not have air intercept radar checked up. Dr. James McDonald said that he had actually seen the pilot's report. That's what he told that. That disappeared from the files. It has never been seen again. This is just the second page. There are several pages of the Air Intelligence Report. It's only a description of what you have already seen on the slides. Approximately ten days after this experience Betty had five disturbing nightmares of dreams. They occurred early in the morning as, just before she woke up, Barney was not sleeping with her because he was working nights at the post office. They included her conscious memories of UFO sighting but sandwiched in between these events was a UFO abduction in these dreams. She rearranged, she wrote them down, she rearranged them and in November of 1961 she wrote a five-page paper about what she had dreamed. This has always created a lot of controversy because Dr. Simon for one, and this is Dr. Simon, hypothesized that perhaps Betty had only repeated her dreams under hypnosis and that Barney had created a fantasy and confabulated the information under hypnosis about an abduction. He was really startled at how similar Betty's and Barney's stories were. He just couldn't believe that they were so similar and that had to come from someplace because of course UFOs were not real and no one had ever been abducted so he was looking for another explanation. I told you yesterday about Dr. Simon's credentials he was very outstanding, psychiatrist, neurologist. He had set up the psychiatric unit at the Mason General Hospital on Long Island in New York. He was a 3,000 bed unit. He was the chief of psychiatry there. He had a tremendous amount of success in treating post-traumatic stress disorder. He was a lieutenant colonel in the Army. He was awarded the Army Commendation Medal, the American Campaign Medal, the Victory Medal. He taught at Yale and Electrical Harvard and he was skilled in deep trans hypnosis to resolve traumatic amnesia. Barney was referring to him because he was not able to resolve some physiological problems he was experiencing. He was hospitalized with bleeding ulcers. He was experiencing stress and he was not responding to traditional medical treatment. So he was referred to another psychiatrist Dr. Duncan Stevens and one day when he was in Dr. Stevens' office he mentioned that he and Betty had traveled to the White Mountains the previous weekend to try to job their memories about this UFO experience that they had and the missing time. And Dr. Stevens thought that Barney was very well adjusted. He couldn't understand why he was experiencing these problems because there was nothing else in his life that should have caused that. He did miss his sons who were in Philadelphia but he saw them during vacations. He thought it was something more bothering Barney so he made the referral to Dr. Simon. And Betty went with him. They met with Dr. Simon for the first time on December. It was December 14th, I believe, 1963. They started a diagnosis in January. They underwent a period of conditioning. And then on February 22, 1964 Barney underwent his first hypnotic regression session. And what he said and what Betty said as well and I did a comparative analysis in 1996 Betty turned all of the hypnosis tapes over to me. I transcribed all of them for comparative analysis. My background is in social science and I am now an hypnotherapist. I was not them. I was a social worker. I majored in psychiatric social work which is what they called it back then in college. And so I did this comparative analysis and I told you Betty and Barney suddenly found themselves on a new road and there were tall trees all around. And Barney said I kept driving and driving and I made a turn and I never knew this. I don't know why I had to make that turn. And that's when he saw that fiery orb in the road. They then saw figures in the road and I'm going to play for you Betty's description of what she saw. He said he did not think of the man in the sky at that time. He did think about going for his gun. But you can see Barney said that three men went to his door. He saw a cluster of six men. Three went to Betty's door. That's not in their dream material. Where did that come from? Unless it happened. Then they were taken out of the car. Barney stated under hypnosis that he could feel the tops of his feet bumping against the stones. Betty stated not under hypnosis but you don't report everything that happens when you're hypnotized. You remember your experiences but you don't report every single little detail. You never struggle with her captors as they attempted to take her on to the craft. And she said that this is the point where she tore the hand on her dress and the lining because she was fighting for her life and she kicked one of these guys as hard as she could. But at that point they took control of her again and she lost consciousness. They took her into the craft. And this is Barney's diagram of the interior of the craft. Here's the ramp. This is the side of the windows. This was a darkened hallway. Barney was taken into this room. There was a table and there was a cabinet here. Betty was taken into this room. There was a table, a chair and a cabinet here. So this was Barney's diagram. Now, this is my composite of the aliens that Betty described in her dreams. I want to make that clear. This is her dream alien. They looked pretty human. Maybe Southern Yorkian. Dark hair, thick hair, dark eyebrows. Blue lips, but they had lips. They looked a lot like Jimmy Duranty. They had large, long noses. They were dressed in cadet-type uniforms. And they were about five feet to five and four inches tall. They were very human in appearance. Let's compare that to what Betty and Barney described after hypnosis. Very different. This is the leader. He had large chest cavity and spindly legs. Before they ever underwent hypnosis, Barney recalled the roadblock. And he mentioned their spindly legs and how they were oddly jointed and how as they approached the car they were sort of shifting side to side. Very different from a human gaze. They described a membrane inside the mouth that flooded when they spoke to each other in their own kind of sort of mumbling or humming type of language. Betty told me once that it reminded her of the low drone of a beehive or a hornet's nest. They had large slanted eyes. They had square corners. They had a vertical, cat-like pupil. And the artist who actually drew this drew it more human looking than Betty said they actually were. Now, Betty and Barney described an iris that filled up most of the white area of the eye. Only a very tiny bit of white was shown and that was yellowish in color. So this painting is not completely accurate. This one was about five feet tall. Betty understood him in English although she did not see his mouth move. That is not in Betty's dreams or recalls. This is the examiner, the original examiner painting was stolen from Betty's house. I commissioned Patrick Richard from New Mexico to do this painting of the examiner. And the examiner had a weaker chin. Betty thought, perhaps this was fake. She thought it was fake. The examiner had a weaker chin. Betty thought, perhaps this was female but didn't know for sure. He was about four and a half feet tall, very much like the leader. They had these long, narrow palms of their hands and they had probably three long fingers and one that was shorter from what Betty could recall. This is my view drawn by the original artist David Baker from New Hampshire and there was one that they didn't talk about. The scientists working with them asked not to disclose this information because they wanted to know if the other people had had this experience as well and if they had they might mention another group onboard this craft. This one was only about three and a half feet tall. I call him the supervisor because he stood in the darkened hallway and he was incredibly frightening to Betty. She had her eyes closed a lot because she couldn't stand to look at him. He had larger eyes and a larger head in proportion to his body than the leader and the examiner. Well, from what I could discover by listening to and transcribing the hypnosis tapes it appears that these alien beings were interested in the human skeletal structure. They examined Betty's and Barney's hands and feet and joints, their eyes, their skin, their mouth, their reproductive systems and many specimens were taken from their bodies. Skin scrapings, perhaps Ova from Betty, there was a sperm sample taken from Barney just about every organ was open in their body. Body's work entered and separate Betty's underwear did remain on. Here's Betty. She underwent a needle in the navel test. This is before we had amniocentesis and I'm going to play for you now Betty's description of what she experienced. This was also in Betty's dream material. The difference between Betty's and Barney's and Barney's is that she had a large needle in her hand and many of the many needle I've ever seen. I asked her what she's going to do with it and he said just in some forty-thousand tick box her face and I asked her what and he said he just likes to put it in my bed. This was also in Betty's dream material. The difference between this and Betty's dreams is that she experienced so much trauma as she was going through reliving this experience that Dr. Simon actually had to end the session early. We don't know for sure if this actually happened because we can't. I was not able to verify beyond reasonable doubt anything that happened individually to Betty and Barney on all the craft. Only their statements of what happened when they were together. So there's a good chance it did but I don't have what I would call scientific evidence that it did. Well, Stan Friedman may have talked about the star map to you. If he hasn't yet, I'm sure he will. So I'm going to go over this rather quickly. This is his area of expertise. He was the first one to publish on the star map and he wrote the chapter on the star map in captured. But Betty said to the leader after the examiner had left to work on Barney, I know you're not from around here. Where are you from? And so he produced a star map that was three-dimensional. It was like a holographic image from the wall. And Dr. Simon gave Betty the post-hypnotic suggestion that she would be able to draw this when she went home if and only if she could remember it accurately and it didn't cause her too much distress. Some of the stars, she did go home and do this and some of the stars were pinpoints and others were as big as a nickel. The solid lines represented trade routes. So we can see trade routes here. Here's the sun up here. So you can see solid lines and then the dotted lines represented expeditions. His margarine fish was Dan Friedman. This is back in the 70s, I believe. Margarine was a school teacher from Ohio. She was also a member of Mensa. She was unmarried and had plenty of time on her hands to express her interest and to research this star map. She reasoned that if it really existed she would be able to find this place in our galaxy, perhaps. So she started building three-dimensional models using silk string and in all she built 26 models before she was able to find a match. It took her four years to find the match. The hard part was in getting the accurate distance data because you can't just order these catalogs. She had to go to the university, to the astronomy department, Ohio State University and copy and copy the information from those catalogs. A lot of the astronomy departments that she attempted didn't even have this information. Libraries didn't have it. So she had a difficult time getting it. But finally a new catalog was released and she found a match. In 1972 she completed her work when the last three stars were found and this is a photograph of one of her models and this is her identification. Now she was having difficulty finding scientists to vet her work for accuracy. Stan Friedman was called in by Coral Rensen from Afro and asked if he would assist Marjorie in this. He went to Marjorie's house. He was impressed by her work and by her intelligence and he actually did find a number of scientists who were willing to vet her work and it was accurate. So what she found is here's Zeta, particularly Zeta 1, Zeta 2. Now you can see that these lines are sure they're closer together than what Betty actually drew. The difference for this and Marjorie reasoned this out with the astronomers and they did accept her explanation as being reasonable is because Betty observed this as a three-dimensional map. Yet she put it on paper as a two-dimensional map and she was looking at it from a certain angle and from a certain distance. So when they did the math they found out that what Marjorie has here represented what Betty described seeing and then drew. So if you're a son it is now 39.2 it says here but I think the updated one is 39.3 light-years away from the son. Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 are 1 eighth of a light-year apart but they are able to support planets if they have planets in a stable orbit. They're not so close that they wouldn't have a stable orbit. It's an interesting fact all of the patterned stars are sunlight stars that only 5% of 1,000 stars in our local galactic neighborhood out 54 light-years are sunlight and all the sunlight stars in the volume of space on the map are in the power. The base stars are at least a billion years older than the sun and can support planets in stable orbit. They are all on a plane like pepperoni on a pizza rather than like raisins in a loaf of raisin bread so it would be easier to travel from one to the other instead of jumping all over the galaxy. Well, then he reported also that she saw a book on board this craft and in the year 2000, August of 2000, I asked her if she could reproduce from a paper the symbols in that book, some of them. Her memory had faded at that point. She had difficulty with this. This may not be an accurate representation of what she saw but she did this for me. They were arranged in six columns. She said the book seemed to be constructed of thin, shiny plastic. It was approximately an inch thick and the text was embedded in the plastic. She asked the leader if she could take this as her proof that this experience actually occurred. He initially said yes. Then that nasty little supervisor saw that she had it and took it away from her. She remained behind on the craft, arguing for this book. She was thrilled and... She did! She did! That's right! Tell that super-awesome! While they took that barny back down the path and put him into the vehicle. Now, if you heard my lecture yesterday, I told you in my comparative analysis, I discovered that under in Betty's dream account of what happened, she said that the hills that she and Barney were returned at the same time. And that they stood outside the car and watched the vehicle of the spacecraft leave. That's not what they stated independently under hypnosis. What they stated under hypnosis was that Barney was returned to the car first. They stated he sat on his gun when he was put back into the car. He then saw Betty coming down the path, his Betty. He didn't report seeing the leader, but Betty said the leader was with her and then brought her off at a certain point. And she walked toward the car. She opened the door. She picked up the dog, Delcy, and said, Barney, let's get out and look at this thing leave. This is even so different from Betty's dream. They were standing in a different location under hypnosis than they were in Betty's dream. This leads me to believe that this was a real experience that both of them told Dr. Simon about as they relived it under regression. I did not regret it. Well, Dr. Simon said this really had occurred. They'd be able to find the location. And they did. On Labor Day of 1965 they did find the induction spot. You can see here is Room 175. There's no room road. This is where the men were in the road. There's a path through the woods. The craft landed right here in the sandy soil area. They remember the sandy soil and it is the only area in that area, part of New Hampshire that has these physical characteristics. And they looked and looked they could never find a place until they were driving along. We'd go out there and spend weekends. Different members of the family would go and camp out and then you'd go look for this. On this particular day aren't you just seem to remember he was driving along he made the right turns he stopped the car, they got out they walked through the woods around this area. I was asleep in the back seat of the car they said, oh can't you have to see this I was too tired I didn't get up I said I'll see you the next time but as years went on I saw dozens and dozens of times. If you go there today it's impossible. There is a housing development there the road has been paved and there are side roads there are houses everywhere it looks nothing like this but this is Betty standing on the capture site. So, this is another map of their prep home. They heard the second series of beeps right here around the Ashford area it was 37 miles to Concord 17 miles from Northfield to Concord and then 47 miles back to Portsom if they were in Jordan at 12.45 a.m. they would have arrived in Ashland at about 3.30 well if they stayed on room 3 it was only 16 miles if they turned off under 175 it was only 21 miles my husband and I drove this group over and over again and tried to get lost we took every side road we could we could never get lost for more than 45 minutes after the hypnosis sessions were over Barney was feeling better he and Betty once again turned to this political activities civil rights activities all of this was to remain confidential information never to be released the three of us were invited to Lyndon Johnson's inauguration and attended that here's Barney with U.S. Senator Tom McIntyre from the state of New Hampshire on January 19th 1965 and they were active in the civil rights movement Barney was appointed to the New Hampshire State Advisory Committee for the U.S. Civil Rights Commission on May 4th 1965 he was also appointed to the office of economic opportunity he was the executive director of the chairman of the executive committee for the Rockingham County Community Action program that he and Betty helped found in the state of important New Hampshire for Rockingham County so they were very well known around the state of New Hampshire very politically involved and the worst thing that could ever happen to them would take for this information to be made public they'd lose their credibility they feared that they would probably lose their jobs as a result they were contacted by a newspaper reporter from Boston in August of 1965 John Luttrell he had heard through gossip from a person who was to maintain confidentiality who had listened to some of the hypnosis tapes and had information that she repeated to this newspaper reporter as a violation of confidentiality he asked to meet the Betty and Barney because he wanted to publish this story they said absolutely not this has to remain confidential so what happened October 25th 1965 it was a regular day they got up and they went to work and all of a sudden the media was all over them outside their offices wanting to come into their offices John Luttrell had published this on the front page of the Boston Traveler it ran for five days it was a horrible experience for my family Betty and Barney were panicking they came to my grandparents house I lived across the street from my grandparents we met as a family to attempt to determine what we were going to do about this and Betty and Barney at that point decided that maybe they would tell the real story about what happened to them they all said one night with an officer on P's Air Force Base Ben Sweats and you'll read about him in my book he retired as a full colonel from the Pentagon they decided after this in early November November 3rd I believe it was 1965 to speak publicly for the first time they had spoken about their experience to their church members at one time and they had without being on the agenda stood up briefly at the two state study group in Quincy, Massachusetts in early November of 1963 and talked about their sign but that was it it was done confidentially they thought well they did John Ford was at that they spoke the Unitarian Church in Dover, New Hampshire spoke to a packed crowd the church was filled the basement of the church was filled with people it was cold and rainy and there were people standing outside the church they had to set up speakers everywhere and John Fuller was in the audience they were introduced by the public information officer and they did not talk about their induction they only talked about their sign Ben Swett introduced John Fuller to Betty and Barney John Fuller talked to them about the possibility of writing their story in a book and eventually they did agree and Dr. Simon agreed to join them and the interrupted journey was published in the fall of 1966 well two of the original investigators that I haven't mentioned if you know the story at all were Robert Holman and C.D. Jackson they worked for IBM Robert Holman was a writer C.D. Jackson was a senior engineer they were in contact with Betty and Barney again and convinced Betty to participate in psychophysics experiments with them in order to vector in the craft I have all of the letters that Robert Holman wrote to Betty about this they visited Betty and Barney they went back to the site they actually scripted Betty and some of the script is in the appendix of this book I've devoted two chapters to the experiments that they did they were attempting to obtain hardware for IBM according to what I can gather from the letters that Robert Holman wrote they were not able to do that but the strange thing is this experiment was confidential so when I was a teenager I wasn't aware of why these UFOs were landing on my grandparents farm but I think it might have something to do with this experiment in fact I know that it had I can't prove scientifically they landed there because of the experiment but there was physical trace evidence they were observed there was one I write about it in the book observed by a commercial pilot who was a neighbor of ours who started coming at night it woke up my grandparents as it sheared off the tops of some trees it woke up my brother who was sleeping and the physical trace evidence was on the ground the trees were burned it was investigate one afternoon I was an amateur astronomer I was standing outside setting up my telescope I looked across the street over my grandparents barn and there's a UFO it was close enough that I could see the windows in it jumping up and down UFO UFO my mother comes running out she takes one look she grabs me by the arm she takes me back into the house and says stay away from the windows well after Barney died the experiments with Hovind and Jackson ended but Betty continued to look for UFOs in fact it's a little credulous in some of this she got to the point where sometimes she wasn't able to differentiate between conventional aircraft the UFOs but between 80 and 95% depending upon what report you're reading the statistical analysis you're reading of UFO sightings are conventional aircraft anyway and when Betty saw finally that they were conventional she identified them as conventional but what you see here is one of her better photographs of something I can't say that this is a flying saucer you can't say it's an extraterrestrial craft but I thought it was interesting because it is saucer shaped she said it hovered over her car and in the original slide of this you can see someone standing right here in this window I thought that was rather interesting there was another one too a fiery orb that Betty photographed and this all culminated 40 years of files of Betty's files the hypnosis tapes all of her memoirs went into this book and culminated in captured the Betty and Barney Hill UFO experience with my stand in freedom and myself and I want to thank you very much for coming today to interview you the story has been being told for some time since the late 60's it's not a new story we have done a lot of research that puts information out that hasn't been put out before the new book captured but it's an important story on several different levels there's a first abduction experience to get any serious attention wasn't the first abduction first one to get attention in John Fuller's book The Interrupted Journey now it got attention in spite of the efforts of Betty and Barney because they were very much concerned about what the impact would be on their lives if this story got out Betty was a social worker a supervisor in the welfare department state of New Hampshire Barney worked for the post office was very active in civil rights the last thing they needed was public attention about the strangest story you can imagine being enough to see a flying saucer people have been seeing them for years many years even seeing crash flying saucers as you heard in the previous talk but now we're not talking about dead bodies we're talking about live ones we're not talking about wreckage we're talking about a craft that comes down does its thing and leaves takes them on board against their will this is a crazy story so they made every effort to keep the story from getting out to the public because they were honestly and sincerely concerned about what it would mean to their lives their jobs as you may have noticed this is an interracial couple this is 1961 in New Hampshire such couples were not very common very special people and I surprised some people by pointing out that even though you notice Barney died in 1969, February I met him Ian Betty and I had dinner in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in 1968, November and it was interesting because I got a call from the local, the big radio station big television station, KDKA and I had done I got started in public involvement on UFOs because I did a program on KDKA called surprisingly enough in fact it was a call-in show and I had asked Frank Edwards who had a best-selling book about flying saucers I said I want to go public Frank I had met Frank I had been active for several years and finding out about saucers give me some names Frank you know everybody he was a newsman in Indianapolis he gave me some names in Pittsburgh where I was living and working for Westinghouse and one of them was the producer of the show, Contag and I called them and gave them a spiel and usually being a nuclear physicist working for Westinghouse were gold-plated credentials in Pittsburgh you know you want to buy a house how much do you want to borrow that kind of thing but their response was pretty much don't call us we'll call you well less than a month later they called me at 6.30 at night could I please be on their show at 7 o'clock somebody had canceled at the last minute and Lord knows how many people they called before they got somebody like me who was willing to go on the show so I did the show I wasn't as good at handling the noisy negativist then as I am now but somebody at work at Westinghouse heard me asked me to talk to her book review club which was looking at Frank's book I gave my first lecture in her living room I did the show many times over the next couple of years and finally after I'd done several shows for them I got a call Betty and Barney Hill are coming to town we thought you might like to know now normally stations won't do that they protect their guests so they called me told me what hotel they were staying at I called them went down we had dinner together I was very favorably impressed by that I mean I'd read the Look magazine article and John Fuller's book and so forth so I can truthfully say I had a chance to interact with the both of them I've seen Betty many times since at her home we did television shows, a tomorrow show other shows my movie UFOs are real there's some copies outside an interview done at Betty's house so a very special twosome here and if you look at the dates you'll see Betty lived a much longer time than Barney so these are the protagonists in this interesting story but people with excellent reputations in their community who did not seek out publicity talk to a lawyer about keeping the story from coming out he said there's nothing you can do reporter got a hold of it who wanted to interview them from a Boston newspaper and it was the last thing they wanted but you want to interview Dr. Simon, the psychiatrist he wasn't having any either so it's an interesting saga this was second marriages they both had been married before and a very special couple let's look at the next slide and another character in this drama was Delcy their dog who was with them on the trip and whose behavior indicated great concern at some time hiding under the seat as I recall it but she's not the little critter we want to talk about the most tonight let's look at the next slide now you'll hear all kinds of crazy stories one of the things about important stories like Roswell and the Hill case is that the nasty noisy negativist really worked overtime trying to put out garbage and you'll see every aspect of each case being attacked by somebody who doesn't know what he's talking about or if he does is intentionally lying and I'm not going to pass judgment on that they went on a trip on vacation coming Barney wanted to do something they were fairly newly married celebrating a special way Betty had never been to Niagara Falls Barney got time off from work well she had a vacation and they decided to go to Niagara Falls everybody's romantic objective this is sort of like a honeymoon for them and you may not recognize this person but she's standing right here this is Kathleen and at the time she was 13 years old should I say that you're not supposed to tell a woman's age but that's alright this was a girl's age she was 13 she had been at Niagara Falls and so she had told them about her trip that helped them understand why it was worth going there and so forth the objective here was to drive to Niagara Falls come back through Montreal come on back home they'd have a great weekend a break in the activities but Kathy was around at the time and there are some people who will tell you she was only three years old at the time how does she know what was going on they left off that little one 13 and 3 are not the same so they were following a route they'd gone over to Niagara Falls which is from Thousand Islands they came up through Montreal had a great time in Montreal and headed east from Montreal to Coatecook I got it I think I pronounced it properly close enough down through Colbrook there's a border between Canada and the United States here this is lovely farm land dairy farms I've been on that road a rural area Montreal isn't rural believe me but the countryside is and things were going as one might expect them to go they thought they might stay over in Montreal Barney got lost all the signs were in French and he didn't speak French and so after they got through the town they decided oh what the heck he felt he was feeling great these are not busy roads once you get past Montreal it was at night he was accustomed to working at night so away we go next slide here's Coatecook and it's Kathleen's turn to say something Betty and Barney stopped for dinner in Coatecook they decided to use up the remainder of their Canadian money and you might have heard that Barney was very upset during this trip because he had encountered some hoodlums who gave him a rough time about being married to a white woman that is false what actually happened is that Betty and Barney went into a restaurant there were two young men in there who had what Barney described as duck bill haircuts and they reminded him of the haircuts that hoodlums types were wearing at that time frame but they were conventionally dressed and Barney stated that they were very nice young men they had a nice dinner in the restaurant and then they left after they left they traveled through the Canadian countryside toward Vermont and then on to New Hampshire there were some interactive farms that they passed along the way and during the hypnosis during this time frame Dr. Simon was asking Barney how he felt what his emotional state was and I want to play for you now in Barney's own words how he felt I hope that you could hear that what he stated is written up there on the screen well then they drove on and they passed through customs and Canaan, Vermont without any problems and this is the route that they took here's Colbrook this would have been their first stop after they left Canada they got gasoline there and then they stopped at a restaurant again for a cup of coffee then they went on to Lancaster the next city down along Route 3 the major route that ran through northern New Hampshire it still is the only major route in that part of northern New Hampshire and then on to Twin Mountain this is the town of Colbrook they stopped at a restaurant their Howard's restaurant and just had a cup of coffee they knew it was the last opportunity they'd have probably to have a cup of coffee that night before they went home and as they were leaving the restaurant they noticed it was about 10 o'clock PM things are quieting down in New Hampshire they drove along to Lancaster now you see cars here and you think oh it's pretty busy there was nobody out 1050 is late at night in rural New Hampshire this is off season before the leaves turned beautiful there's nothing much going on no traffic very few things open of a commercial nature anyplace along this route it's country pure and simple country so don't be fooled by the cars no traffic then the drive in south Betty on the passenger seat of course saw a strange new light in the sky the skies are clear and beautiful down there this is not Smogsville country at all and as you'll see the weather was great and they saw this new light in the sky except it was sort of like a meteor except it was going up next slide from north to south as you can see there ok this the first interview that was done at any length with them after they made an initial report to the local police and then P's Air Force Base was done by Walter Wett he was a wheel at the planetarium in Boston the lecturer I guess he was assistant director he was an investigator for the national investigations committee on aerial phenomena one of the two major groups at that time APRO and NICAP research organization national investigations committee on aerial phenomena now after the event we'll be talking about Betty went to the library got a book out by major Donald Kehoe who had pretty much founded NICAP and was director and it had an address to which you could write to report a sighting and they requested that sightings be reported she wrote a letter detailing what happened during this experience as far as she knew at the time anyway and they in turn passed this on to Walter Webb NICAP was in Washington DC we're talking about New Hampshire nearest big city Boston of course Walter Webb was their big shot investigator in Boston they passed Betty's letter naturally typed she was a social worker she was a supervisor welfare department of state of New Hampshire there's a custom to writing reports and it was detailed so Walter called them within a couple of days after getting a letter from NICAP and arranged to meet them and so we have a copy of that report he's still around incidentally a little older as most of us are now and there's a quote here the couple initially thought they were observing a falling star only it moved upward a plane or a satellite next slide there were break you can see that up there the first stop was near Twin Mountain now we're getting up to 11 20 p.m. even quieter nothing going on peaceful countryside no hoodlums there were bright colors like bright orange light almost a reddish beam and there were like a blue light on a police cruiser they were just a flash flash of different colors and I'd never seen anything like it before it was moving quite fast now she's watching Barney's driving when I saw it go in front of the moon I was sort of fascinated and I kept watching now note that a later explanation is that this was Jupiter now I can't remember the last time Jupiter went in front of the moon it's half a billion miles out there the moon's a quarter of a million miles out there but let's look at the next slide she was intrigued in other words and she's telling Barney incidentally about this she's seeing a UFO and Betty there are no UFOs he was poo-pooing she's driving south she's watching this thing and reporting to him they went through Franconia notch now we say mountains in New Hampshire when you're on the east coast and you say mountains you don't mean the Rockies the highest point east of the Mississippi is in New Hampshire, Mount Washington or one of the highest points together with North Carolina but you do have rolling country and some sharp hills so you get this Franconia notch which you can see why it's sharp notch not slowly rolling down kind of thing this was taken a little later time in the year and they get gorgeous color up there but normally in October not September and then you'll have busloads full of tourists looking at the color but not September 20th next slide and then we see Cannon Mountain there is a tramway it goes up and down runs most of the year ski lift if you want to call it that not at this time of year of course they do have skiing there it's a beautiful local area well known and some people have suggested that what they saw was the light at the top of the mountain there and as you will hear about all the things this crazy light did you realize it couldn't have been it lights at the top of the mountain stay in the same place normally they don't move around they don't fly in front of the moon so let's look at the next slide is that yours or mine? yours now I get a real kick out of the explanations about point sources Jupiter they also watched it go past one of the real emblems of New Hampshire the old man of the mountain until it fell we went by where it was we were up there doing a television show but this shape as you can see first seen in 1805 by a white man looks like an old man of the mountain they saw the UFO alongside it now it's 48 feet from chin to brow it was about one and a half times the height that's not a point of light in other words I better show you up here you see the idea here's the old man of the mountain this now fell into a lake and you can't see it but the saucer was next to it but people want to explain it away and ignore this part of the testimony if it was 48 feet one and a half times would be 72 feet that's hardly a point source of light so many of the so-called explanations disappear they then made a second stop and got out of the car to look at this object in the sky Betty had told Barney that it was moving erratically and they both speculated that perhaps it was the movement of the car and Betty was looking at this through binoculars as she was riding along and so they decided to stop to see if it actually was moving erratically or if it was only an object that was moving smoothly in the sky and so I want to play for you now Barney's description of what they saw so he thinks only a jet could fly that fast the only problem is it was completely silent and it had unconventional lighting and they could see the windows in it there were no red lights at that time there was only a row of white lights and it appeared to be rotating they then returned to their car and drove south the next area that they would have come to is known as Indian Head this is the area where the tourists spend the night there were cottages there at the time and there were also some tourist detractions what you see here is Indian Head the Indian Head Resort is there in 1961 there were only cabins today it has grown into a big beautiful resort and I did want to mention that in September of 2011 the Indian Head Resort is going to host a 50th anniversary event to commemorate Betty and Barney Hill's experience and they are going to dedicate a memorial to Betty and Barney and there will be guided tours of the close encounter route I will be giving those and also lecturing so I hope that you will consider coming to that as Betty and Barney passed those cabins Betty saw someone standing in one of the windows it was a man standing in a window and she thought to herself well, I could end all of this right now if we just stopped and spent the night at this cabin but then she thought she was so curious she wanted to see more of this and Barney having left this very desolate area told Dr. Simon and I quote I feel safe unless in the barren hostility of the wooded area I've been here before I feel comforted that I see a familiar place now Barney started to talk to Dr. Simon about Betty's reaction Dr. Simon had asked him and he said Betty is becoming excited about this thing and Betty rarely becomes excited about anything so something is going on here that is unusual and I think that I want to stop and get a better look at this thing so as he was driving self he was looking for another place where he could pull over to the side of the road and stop but before he had the opportunity to find a spot this craft shifted ahead of them and stopped directly over the top of their vehicle and then descended toward them causing Barney to have to stop the car directly in the middle of the road now we're at 12.15 a.m. now he stopped in the middle of the road and you might think well that was not a very bright thing to do but there was nobody around there was no traffic and he says it continued to have a forward look facing me as if it swung and did not move from its position but just swung around and I continued to look and began walking across the highway from the car got out of the car going across the highway there's a field over there and Barney walked toward the craft holding the binoculars up to his eyes and what I want to do now is to play for you two tape recordings of Barney's statements about what he saw the first recording is the first session with Dr. Simon and Dr. Simon brought on this tremendous release of emotion in Barney at this point this is the place where Barney's mental block set in he recalled a close encounter with this craft he recalled observing non-human entities on board the craft in fact his statement to Walter Webb in the initial report was that they were somehow not human in Betty's letter written September 25th, 1961 to Nycap she reported that Barney had observed figures on board this craft and there was something about their appearance that had frightened him so badly that he had developed a mental block and they were considering finding a competent psychiatrist who would use hypnosis to help Barney understand what it was that caused this mental block so the first tape I'm going to play for you is this first session there's some real terror there you might have noticed now I'm going to play the excerpt from the second hypnosis session where Barney was reliving the same experience with left's emotion and was able to give Dr. Simon a little more detail about what he observed Barney then finally managed to pull those binoculars down and when he arrived home the strap the leather strap on the binoculars was broken and this must have been the point where he broke that strap where he pulled them down so violently in order to overcome this thought that he was getting from the leader on this craft to keep them up at his eyes he pulled it down and when he came back he was screaming to Betty that they had to get out of there they were going to be captured Betty was seated in the car all of this time the door was cracked open I imagine the interior light in the car was on and she was calling for Barney after a few minutes and when he didn't come back she was becoming very upset and she was going to get out of the car and go into that field and look for him as Barney was returning to the car running back he noticed that the craft had shifted overhead above the vehicle well and he told Betty to look up and see if she could see the craft so she rolled down the window and she looked up and she couldn't see it she couldn't see the blackness she couldn't see the stars she couldn't see the sky she saw her only blackness and I'm going to play for you now her description of what happened next she's inside the car looking up out the window beep beep beep no even Barney said it's an electrical signal somebody's beep beep beep because maybe this is the most code and I don't know it well maybe it's electrical it's the shock you know like it's the metal of the car and I get feeling and I didn't feel any shock, no electric shock Carl was vibrating and there was a tingling sensation that passed through Betty's and Barney's bodies and caused them to feel a little numb the next thing they were knew they were 35 miles south of the field they hadn't spoken another word to each other you would think that Betty would have asked Barney what he had observed in the field you would think that they would be discussing this thing they didn't they didn't speak for 35 miles as far as they could remember they know from the signs on the road how many miles to some place it's safe okay this is a map okay this is Twin Mountain their first stop was at the Mount Cleveland picnic area here just south of Twin Mountain at about 10.50pm it might have been a little earlier than that when they arrived but when I was driving through re-enacting their trip for myself I had to drive more slowly as Barney was driving back then it's more heavily populated now Barney was driving along at a fairly rapid clip 50, 55 miles an hour according to his testimony we had to slow down as we were passing through here's the old man of the mountain that's the second stop I estimated it was about 11.50pm but when Betty passed by Cannon Mountain Simon that she looked at her watch and she thought it was about 11.20pm at that time so I again may be off this is the third stop at the close encounter field they thought it was about midnight then I arrived it would have been about 12.15pm and then later on they found out that there was a capture site that they didn't recall initially until hypnosis and this is where that was located now a point that needs to be made when we were there to do a movie and I won't talk about the movie but when you're standing at that location where Barney was looking with his glasses and you realize that very shortly after that he gets off the main road onto a secondary road and then onto a dirt road there is no possible way on his own makes absolutely no sense he was being directed to a rather unique spot in the whole area it's a heavily wooded part of the country as you can see the trees are tall this is not New Mexico desert this is wooded New Hampshire and yet they wind up on this very narrow road no lights, no traffic no people, no buildings why would anybody go there you know and they see a road block and beings, men in the road they couldn't make any sense out of this what was going on here is there an accident, there's no traffic there's no reason for there to be anybody there so let's look at the next slide I just wanted to mention that in their conscious recollection there was a road block they just didn't know when or where it occurred that was a mystery and they saw this you can call it a fiery orb a bright light, some source of light ahead of them in the road it was moving but they weren't moving I thought it might be the moon but obviously the moon isn't down on road level it couldn't have been the moon so they're totally puzzled about this situation what's going on, what's happening and I'd like to play for you Barney's statement about that experience this was part the moon, being on the highway in that kind of position and I could never seem to find any terrain up there that would fit what I sort of dimly remember this thing was sitting there and I kept remembering these men flagging me down and then I sort of don't remember and now I remember okay the next thing they remember is this gap they see this orb, whatever it is in the road they see men, beings around it and then it's like everything fades out the next thing they remember is another set of these buzzing, beeping sounds the car shaking maybe and they're 35 miles down the road and now they're back in full consciousness except that it's seamless they'd been alert and awake, now they're alert and awake and in between nothing how do you drive a car without knowing what you're doing you know so let's look at the next one and so they kept on about their business coming down this way heading Portsmouth is on the coast on the Atlantic coast conquests the capital the sign said how far it was to Concord that's your measuring label here and they expected to get home about three in the morning but that's not what happened they arrived home at 5.15 a.m. they checked their watches when they arrived home but they were no longer working they wound them those watches never worked again they went into the house Barney went into the house first he looked at the clock it was about 5.15 a.m. he said arrived a little bit later than I anticipated Betty stayed outside walking the dog Delcy and she talked about how she could hear the birds chirping it was already daylight this is September, mind you September 20th the birds shouldn't be chirping in the morning Barney sensed a strange sensation in his groin a little itchiness and he went into the bathroom and checked himself to see what was wrong he didn't see anything then but not long after that 21 3 quarter inch growths appeared in a perfect concentric circle on his groin under hypnosis he would tell Dr. Simon that he could feel a cup-like device being placed over his groin in that exact location those growths became infected inflamed when Barney was undergoing hypnosis with Dr. Simon and he had to have them surgically removed at that time this is two years after the event mind you disappeared shortly there after the event but the inflammation was later yes it was later so I do want to stress the point that the lab reports stated that they were not venereal warts the debunkers tend to say that that's what they were they were not he and Betty felt clammy as if they had been contaminated more than anyone would feel just from driving to from Montreal to New Hampshire and there as I said the binocular strap was broken and their watches had stopped and never worked again the tops of Barney's shoes were scraped he was a meticulous dresser he had to wear those shoes for yard work after that he had no explanation logical explanation for how this had happened they weren't just slightly scuffed they were scraped his words were they were scraped they went into separate rooms and they drew sketches of what they had observed standard practice you do it with your kids they both say they saw something well you sit down here and draw what you saw and you sit down here and draw what you saw so they each what they could recall this is without hypnosis at this point in time and two drawings pretty darn similar and it should be noted that these kind of wings or whatever you want to call them slid out from the side so red light then gradually as it came closer to the ground and there were windows with beings being seen on the other side neither one of these two was a great artist you understand but close enough to say that they were drawing the same thing this was a temporary apparently appendage I call it a wing but that's probably not a good name for it okay and I just did want to mention that Barney drew figures behind the windows whereas Betty did not that's because Barney observed those figures when he was in the field and had the binoculars was in the car so she was drawing what she saw initially in the car before the craft shifted over the field and Barney walked toward it now Betty had put on a fairly new dress the morning of the trip from Montreal to Portsmouth and when she arrived home the zipper was torn at the top of the zipper there was a two inch tear on one side and a one inch tear on the other side no mundane explanation for that all she did is ride in the car she got out a few times she ate at a couple of restaurants no explanation for this the lining was torn from waist to hemline and the hem was torn down on one side she knew it had to be repaired so she folded it up and she placed it in her closet and sometimes she went to her closet to retrieve the dress it was covered with a pink powdery substance that degraded the fabric and destroyed the dress she hung the dress up on the clothes line the pink powder blew away but it had discolored the dress permanently and this is the dress here you can see that part of it this area right here is still blue this was the original blue color of the dress but there are areas where it was completely saturated with this pink powdery substance and these were the areas where Betty later told Dr. Simon that these alien beings who had abducted her had wrapped their hands around her shoulders there's another view of the dress you can see that some swaths have been cut out of the dress those were for the chemical analyses that the dress underwent they underwent four chemical analyses and I have written about that and captured and they also were used in a seed growth experiment this is Phyllis Buttinger she has a master's degree in chemistry she did the most extensive chemical analysis on the dress she was a research scientist for BP Amaco previously standard oil for 35 years she specialized in petroleum chemical and polymer analyses using spectroscopic techniques and currently she is the technical director of frontier analysis limited laboratory in Chagrin Falls, Ohio quite respectable chemist more about it in captured but her conclusion at the end of this analysis was and I quote I am convinced that the event did happen as determined by the chemical analysis I did on Betty Hill's dress well my mother was the first person that Betty called when she arrived home Barney had advised her that they should forget about the entire event that no good could possibly come of it but Betty and my mother were very close and lived 20 miles apart and so when she called my mother my mother suggested that she would call a neighbor of ours who was a physicist and see what the physicist had to say about this whole thing Betty was worried about contamination what might have happened to them and the physicist told my mother to advise Betty that if she had a compass she should take it out to the car to see how the needle of the compass would react she did find a compass and she took it out and when she went out there she noticed there were some new very shiny spots on the trunk of the vehicle that hadn't been there the day before there were 18 of them and they were very shiny and I'm going to play for you both Betty's and Barney's descriptions of what those spots looked like I also saw these spots this is a fact similarly because none of us thought to take a photograph of those spots but this is based upon Betty's and Barney's descriptions and upon my memory of what I observed there was nothing about an abduction of these lines so the significance wasn't yet known of this whole experience it was like a lacquer put on over the cow and even when I waxed the cow the spot still was shiny and the cow was all still left and I thought well at any thing she said now let's listen to what Barney said you can see that Betty and Barney's description of those spots and how the compass needle reacted were consistent nobody understands why that would happen you understand the spots were located in the exact location where the hills said they heard beeping or buzzing sounds that caused the vehicle to vibrate and that vibration to cause their bodies to tingle Betty washed and waxed the vehicle but the spots wouldn't rub out but they faded away over the winter of 1961 to 1962 I do have a letter in the book quotes from a letter of a meeting that Betty and Barney had with Air Force officers at their church rectory where they discussed the spots on the trunk of the car and speculated about what might have caused this this wasn't part of the official blue book record it was a meeting brought together by Betty and Barney could never understand why these officers came to this meeting it was supposed to be to listen to poetry written by one of the officers but after he read his poems the officers asked Betty and Barney to stay and they had a conversation about the spots on the trunk of the vehicle they knew people at the base because of his work with civil rights you see so there was a connection with the base P's Air Force base just outside now there has been some speculation that they might have just been weather spots weather spots develop when it rains atmospheric pollutants drop down in the rain they deposit on the vehicle then the sun comes out and bakes those spots on the car and you have to use a chemical solution to get them off they don't rub off very easily this is what weather marks look like and you can see here that this is not what Betty's and Barney's marks looked like does not fit the description and then here is the facsimile again just so that you can see the difference they called the local police they advised them to call nearby P's Air Force base they did they made a report they were treated fairly decently a record was kept here is the official project blue book air intelligence information report it was taken seriously the report also included the interesting where is the comment about the radar there on this one I can't read it though can you read it there was a radar report it says it was revealed that a strange incident occurred at 211 local on the 20th of September no importance was attached to the incident at the time subsequent interrogation failed to bring out any information in addition to that of the extract of the daily controller and there was also a report on another radar installation in north conquered Vermont blue book tried to push this aside and there have been a number of instances noted where they've changed files and records and so forth but what I'm saying is a definite record of something happening at the right time and place and so forth they were taken seriously let's look at the action but I want to mention that this is the original handwritten report and in the original report the Air Force said that there was a strong inversion in the Lincoln New Hampshire area that night and in temperature inversion will cause a distant object to appear much closer than it is and one of their favorite theories was that this might explain UFO sightings that people had it was a favorite for the Washington national airport sightings the only trouble is when you check the weather records there wasn't any temperature inversion and this is from the Mount Washington's the tallest point in New Hampshire the official weather station archival records looking back on our records for the dates in question it appears that the 19th and 20th were both beautiful late summer days atop the rock pile Mount Washington was the rock pile they had some of the strongest winds in the country on average terrible winters, rugged kind of place the evening and night time conditions for the 19th were quite tranquil winds were from the west at around 25 miles per hour visibility was 130 miles throughout the night but dropped to 75 miles during the morning hours of the 20th there was a movie well we'll talk about that in which the windshield wipers are shown going like mad it wasn't raining when you got 130 miles visibility it's not bad weather some critics have also stated that the weather people at the top of Mount Washington would have observed the craft if it had really been there on that night there was a letter written to the weather men up there and they said that due to their job the type of job they had they only went outside of the building at night in order to check the temperature gauges outside and then they returned to the building they would not have observed anything in the sky that night they're not looking around are there any flying saucers folks? no the chief meteorologist said it is possible a weak inversion set up in the valleys overnight as the valley locations are more prone to the diurnal day night effects of the sun but I think that the cloud cover would have prevented so there wasn't any inversion that's what the chief meteorologist said and as things went on and we haven't mentioned that but we did mention that you'd gone down there seen the car witnessed it so personal experience etc ten days later about Betty began to have nightmares had five of them they included a conscious memory of a close encounter with the UFO she also dreamed of an abduction by the craft's occupants I think you're all aware that sometimes the events of our daytime life show up in our dreams so something was going on here but Betty being Betty she recorded the dreams she kept a record of them now remember Barney worked nights Betty worked days I still kept the next okay now the event took place in 1961 September okay Barney developed some ulcers some problems health problems went to a doctor you know got to take care of the ulcer problem got blood pressure problems and the doctor told Barney that look I've done all I can for you with conventional medicine something else is going on here he recommended that they see a psychiatrist because remember back then ulcers were thought to be caused by mental stress and if you could control the stress you could take care of the ulcers to some extent to make a long story short he wound up in the office of Dr. they wound up Dr. Benjamin Simon now Benjamin Simon didn't know a darn thing about UFOs but he was a world-class expert on helping people uncover hidden memories if you will specifically dealing with World War II shell shock war veterans that's what they used to call it today it's post-traumatic stress disorder but you know your buddy's head gets blown off next to you it's a little hard to integrate that into your life why me not me and how do I live with that people are coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan with these things and so Dr. Simon actually ran a hospital with 3,000 beds for shell shock war veterans he had the greatest success of any of the psychiatrists it's never 100% I'd better add not everybody is able to get back to a normal life but he even stars in a movie let there be light that the army made showing his techniques that he had developed using regressive hypnosis somebody who was blind was able to see again we're not talking mythical stories here the army wanted these people to get back to living again Dr. Simon was the best equipped probably of anybody around who could have had the chore of trying to uncover what happened he was down in Boston and he conducted his sessions each separately not together and induced amnesia at the end of each session two purposes they couldn't remember it themselves and they couldn't talk to the other one about it he was taping all these sessions and eventually played back the tapes to them together and his whole purpose was to get the feelings out and have them relive these experiences so he could show them they're okay now they can live with it the truth shall set you free something I don't know who said that I don't know who said that but it doesn't matter so Ben Simon was not an expert on flying saucers and in listening to the tapes sometimes you get the feeling why didn't he ask him this, that or the other thing he wasn't interested in the saucer part of the story he was interested in helping two obviously sensible, sensitive, intelligent people get their lives back after what was clearly a strange experience that was disturbing to them so it wasn't the next week Carl Sagan did an article which made it sound like there was one hypnosis session where they came up with this cock and bull story nonsense and as a matter of fact we have it in writing that the emotional intensity in one session each was greater than that in the voices of any of the military guys that Dr. Simon had worked with he had to stop those sessions he was afraid they couldn't handle it the terror is quite clear and I mention this because you'll hear people saying what was it I said Betty didn't get excited it was like she was taking a stroll in the supermarket it sure doesn't come across that way when you listen to the tape Barney is terror-stricken and remember there had been no abduction cases that had been publicized there's nothing to draw upon about what happened here if you're being abducted by somebody are you going to get back what's going to happen to you is your life going down the drain while these guys get, when they get finished with you they throw you away so there's an innate terror aside from having you under their control and doing physical examinations and other stuff which none of us are nobody wants to be a specimen which is how they were treated fair enough statement yes so he was quite a remarkable guy and it's important to recognize that this was a real expert not in flying saucers but in helping people get through difficult experiences and as they're reliving this experience they realize that remember that business about the orb they saw this light in the road and some men around it and stuff they remembered that consciously not very clearly now they're going over it and when you're up in that country the trees are tall the road is narrow no lights I kept driving and driving and I made a turn and I never knew this I don't know why I had to make that turn as I say when you stand at the spot where he first sees the leader through the binoculars you get the very strong feeling that he was being directed where to go and the place they wound up was the only place in the area where you could sit down a large saucer empty lot I'll call it sandy area this is a very heavily forested land and at night it's dark out there I'll tell you that sand is kind of whitish so he was there because they wanted him there and from the air of course you could see where it could just sit down a saucer where could you bring a car in and so forth and so on there's the comment when Betty was talking about her dreams I saw 8 to 11 men standing in the middle of the road the men surrounded the car we sat motionless that's what she said let's listen to the description what are we doing there the binoculars had to stop they separated they gave up the two groups did that sound like a trip to the grocery store to you the emotional level of a trip to the grocery store for a woman who's normally very even toned this is not an excitable woman now in Betty's dreams remember she that there were 8 to 11 men they surrounded the car and she and Barney sat motionless you just saw that under hypnosis that's not what happened there were three who came to her door let's see what Barney described said he didn't think of the man in the sky at that time well as you can see Barney said that three he looked him as well that's not what Betty had in her dreams there's evidence there that what happened might have been a real event they both made the same statements correlating data under hypnosis that was not in Betty's dream material the point is some people said there was no event it was just Betty's dream that was the whole story not under hypnosis was just Betty's dreams and Barney picked it up from Betty and we got no problem here it's just wishful thinking the reality comes out quite different from that and Barney could as they each one was grabbed by three people three beings and Barney could feel the top of his feet bumping against the stones that's where that scuffed shoes came from this is the sandy area they were being transported and clothed separately three with Barney, three with Betty his eyes were pretty much closed they were under control you want to keep your specimens from fighting back nobody stuck a needle in them they wanted them conscious presumably so they could do what they were told to do when they were being tested but that's where the shoe problem seems to have come from sort of hanging a little bit and being dragged with his feet behind them on the ground Barney stated that he felt as if he were floating somehow that his arms were extended outward and that he could just feel the toes of his shoes bumping along those rocks and then sliding along a smooth surface and bumping over a surface at the top we'll call it a ramp anyway Betty was feisty she tried to kick these people she wasn't going to be taken willingly into whatever it was they wanted to do with her but so three guys on each of them managed to get them up this ramp over a kind of lintel I'll call it a doorway kind of base and they were taken into separate rooms remember this is a clear area here the only space in the area we could put down this darn saucer right next to this narrow road where they were grabbed somebody was paying attention and planning and when Betty struggled at the bottom of this ramp it's probably the point at which she tore out the lining of her dress and tore down her hem much more sensible and she's sitting in the car and suddenly these things happen Barney later drew this picture of what things looked like on board he had a compass you know he was up this way into a room it was a table and cabinet this was a circular craft with pie shaped wedges going around it they were not in the same rooms for their examination neither one was as to what was going on with the other one some people have said that Betty recalled aliens who looked very different from the ones that Barney recalled they're getting Betty's dreams confused with Betty's hypnotic recall this is what the beings looked like in Betty's dreams they looked a lot like Jimmy Durante Southern European looking dark thick hair dark eyebrows ears human eyes large noses lips that had a bluish tint a kind of a grayish skin and they were dressed in blue cadet type uniforms in her dreams but this is what Betty and Barney described and remembered during the hypnosis sessions that they had with Dr. Simon and this is a drawing done by New Hampshire artist David Baker he actually painted this in watercolors and this was the rendition of the leader now David Baker did his drawings based upon his knowledge of human anatomy so they might be slightly different from what Betty and Barney observed Betty and Barney said though that they had large chest cavities it was almost as if they had barrel just completely round rather than being wider this way and thinner this way there was a membrane that covered their mouths and this membrane fluttered when they spoke to each other in this kind of humming or buzzing sound but Betty and Barney understood them in English although they never saw their mouths move when they were communicating with Betty and Barney telepathy to me anyway they had large slanted eyes which Betty and Barney said they had sort of square sides and Betty thought they had a vertical cat like slick for a pupil and they both said that the iris almost completely filled up the eye and there was a little bit of yellow around the edges so what you see in David Baker's painting is a little bit different from what Betty and Barney actually described in their written accounts the leader was approximately five feet tall and let's take a look now at the examiner this is more what Betty and Barney actually described this painting was done by New Mexico artist Patrick and he was actually a friend of Betty when he lived in New Hampshire the examiner looked about the same as the leader only they said he or she had a weaker chin they weren't sure if this was a male or female it was approximately four and a half feet tall communicated in English again they were all dressed in black tight fitting shiny clothing and in Barney's original reports to Walter Webb back in October of 1961 he described shiny black uniforms Betty later described long narrow palms and very long fingers maybe four or five she wasn't sure which this is a side view a sketch by David Baker and there was a being on board that Betty and Barney didn't reveal to the public they were asked not to talk about this particular one by the scientists who were studying their case this is the one I call the supervisor because this little being stood out in the dark hallway looking in at Betty as she was being examined and frightened her terribly he was about three and a half feet tall he resembled the others in a sense but he was different at the same time his head was larger in proportion to the size of his body than the leader and the examiner and he had this very dark irises in his eyes he had a broad flat nose and a wide thin mouth and he was very hostile and threatening at the end this was the one that took the book away from Betty if you're familiar with the story there was a book that she wanted to keep that she found on the craft it didn't look like our books but it was like a book and he was the one who saw it and she told me that he was almost screaming when he saw that she had that book and then it was taken away from her she had asked for something to take with early on to prove that this event had happened and she saw the book grabbed it and she's getting ready to leave and this blankety blank is telling her no you can't take it with you I'll remember you won't remember there was a nasty scene there well Betty and Barney said that there are physical examinations involved an examination of their skeletal structures these being seem to be very interested in the difference between human skeletons and their own whatever that might be Betty and Barney noted that they seemed oddly jointed and when they walked they walked very differently from us it was almost as if they were gliding or stumbling along or almost skating it's really hard to describe they examined Betty's and Barney's hands their feet they took their shoes off they examined their joints to see how human joints moved they looked into their eyes they scraped their skin they looked into their mouths there were reproductive experiments done probably a needle was placed in Betty's navel and the cup was placed over Barney's groin many specimens were taken from all of the orifices in their bodies and this is Betty on the examining table painting done by Patrick Richard again and the needle in the navel experiment and I want to play for you now, Betty's description under hypnosis just a simple walk in the supermarket you can tell that this is a session in which Dr. Simon had to end the session early due to the emotional intensity he didn't want to cause Betty to relive any further trauma during that session and by the way before the development of amniocentesis they did say it was a pregnancy test which didn't make any sense at the time my wife has had amniocentesis the needle in the navel routine nobody was doing it at this time now I have another tape that I want to play before Stan talks to you again so let's play this he went all the across the room to the head of the table so he did something he opened up a it wasn't like a draw he did something in the metal of the wall there was an opening this before table and I looked at wise guy alien is all I can say this was preceded by Betty asking him where they were from and saying I know you're not from around here the understatement of the month and that's when he showed her this map and so this was followed by Dr. Simon is listening to this under hypnosis this is reliving it's not retelling and he asked Betty to imagine a Dr. Simon there was a sensible person telling him a story about trade routes and occasional expeditions and where is this all coming from and so he asked Betty if she can remember what the map looks like she says yes and he gives her a post-hypnotic suggestion if and only if she can remember it accurately please draw it later on and she does she goes home and she draws it and and base stars and you know trade routes and occasional expeditions how the heck are you going to make any sense out of that I mean a galaxy has 200 billion stars in it we have no points of reference it might suggest that the earth was on there or the sun was on here somewhere because they're here but beyond that we'll never know so it seemed until a brilliant woman named Marjorie Fish did something nobody else had ever done she built 26 different three-dimensional models of our local galactic neighborhood that's Marjorie that's really me I did have black hair a long time ago this was in the early 70s she was a school teacher she built these models her whole point was to see if she could she had visited Betty and gotten more information to see if she could find a three-dimensional pattern that matched the three-dimensional drawing that Betty had drawn she thought she'd find many matches at first she didn't find any now her models were limited by information on how the distance to the stars and how many you can put in a model out about 50 light years was the most you could get in a cube kind of thing she expected to find many matches she didn't find any using all the stars then she started cutting back on which stars she showed getting to the kind that scientists then said were the ones that ought to have planets in life maybe not all stars would be expected they might be too old too new to have another star too close to all kinds of restrictions finally when she got some good distance data the astronomers aren't going anywhere so they don't care how far away stars are you need two angles to find a star and whether it's 20 light years away or 40 light it doesn't matter but if you're trying to get a three-dimensional pattern of where things come from the distances matter entirely and when a new catalog came out the finally Wilhelm Glesey new catalog of nearby star distances you heard the word Glesey three weeks ago there was talk about a planet 581G Glesey 581G that's the same Glesey the star is 581 the G refers to the fifth I guess it's fifth or sixth planet around that star and this may be in the Goldilocks zone and may have planets in life and all this may have life anyway she finally found one and only one pattern that matched angle for line length angle line length for line length what Betty had drawn it was a big moment this is one of her models each of those beads stands for a particular star and it's proper three-dimensional location and she had help from the staff at Ohio State University Astronomy Department Dr. Mitchell he's in my movie UFOs Areal saying how accurate her work was she was a school teacher, she was a member of Mensa brilliant objective person Marjorie was and this is the identity of those stars the distances then aren't quite accurate the Hipparchus satellite has made millions of measurements of better distances finally the sun is up here that's the important thing our star the base stars zeta 1 and zeta 2 reticuli that's the constellation of reticulum which means the net you can't see it from here you gotta go down to the southern hemisphere to see it these two stars are very special they're the closest to each other they're a pair of sun-like stars in our entire local neighborhood our star the sun is out in the boondocks next star over 4.3 light years away these two stars from each other are only an eighth of a light year apart that's 30 times closer to each other than we are to the next star over we're out in the boonies, these guys got next door in neighbors and those two stars are at least a billion years older than the sun a billion years now the fact that they're so close means from a planet around one looking at the other it's visible all day long and with that billion years and that short distances there's plenty of time and more incentive to develop interstellar travel a long time ago you got a next star neighbor and you can tell because you're so close that there's life of some kind around the other star around the planets around the other stars that's a very exciting discovery now the SETI people will tell you we listened to those stars and we didn't get a signal SETI really stands for silly effort to investigate to suggest that aliens are stuck at our level of radio communication technology we've had for about a hundred years is pretty silly I don't use the slide rule anymore I doubt if aliens are using our communication technology now but this is your target if you want to go someplace there are only 39.3 light years away from here so that's in the local neighborhood now several special things all the stars connected by lines are sun-like stars it's only true of 5% of the stars in our neighborhood is between a thousand and two thousand stars within 55 light years we keep finding new small stars that's the first thing all the patterned stars are sun-like only 5% of the stars in the neighborhood are sun-like and all the sun-like stars in that very well described hunk of space are part of the pattern the chance of that being a coincidence are one in ten thousand to one in a million they're all in a plane the stars connected by lines like slices of pepperoni on a pizza as opposed to raisins a big fat loaf of raisin bread that makes transport a lot easier when you're in a plane the planets in the solar system are in a plane amazingly so there you go it's a very exciting, challenging work I'm very proud to have been the first to publish about it I was asked to help Marjorie by the head of the Aerophenomenal Research Organization that's how I got involved I met with her a couple of times three times anyway and she's one of the most objective people I've ever met now here's that question about the book that we mentioned earlier about the nasty supervisor taking it away from her here's what Betty said the book seemed to be constructed of thin stiff shiny plastic maybe an inch thick tux seemed to be embedded in the plastic it was in about six columns going down with symbols what those symbols mean I don't know I told them I doubt it this is one of those places where you wish Dr. Simon had asked for more information please but he didn't but it was something different anyway let's get back to the comparative analysis I did on the hypnosis tapes where I transcribed Betty's and Barney's statements and lined them up and compared them to Betty's statements in her dream and although I have several examples in the book this I'm using only two examples here due to our time constraint but in Betty's dream she said that she and Barney returned to the car at the same time they stood by the side of the car and they watched the UFO leave then they entered the vehicle and they took off let's go back that's not what happened on the hypnosis tapes on the hypnosis tapes Barney was escorted to the car first he was placed in the driver's seat and he sat on his gun he was sitting there wondering where Betty was and he saw her coming down the path Betty had actually been back on the craft arguing because she wanted to keep that book and she was furious that she it had been taken away from her she was feisty and then the leader took her down the path and she entered the car she picked up her dog the leader had told her that she could stop she could stand by the side of the car and watch the craft leave he thought it would be safe for them to do that so then she asked Barney to get out of the car and watch the craft leave which they did so this was completely different from the information that Betty had recorded in her dreams indicating that it might have been a real experience and not that Betty had simply repeated her dreams under hypnosis and that Barney had somehow absorbed the information in Betty's dreams osmosis and repeated it and so the attempts to find the location Dr. Simon had given a suggestion that they would find the location they did find it in this area this is an aerial view this is a dark at night lonely road no lights and there's now a house here there wasn't thin and it's sandy and they recalled the soil being sandy and it's the only place around that's like this so they're sadistic the people who live in the house didn't know about this being the place where this experience had taken place incidentally but when you're out here as we were at night in the dark it's a closed in sort of place I mean the trees are tall they're not little scrubby things and so it's a unique location you can see looking around there this is in the woods this is not a place for spectators in other words the guys who ran this show knew what they were doing this is Betty standing on the site before the house was built obviously they went on home you can see the distances on the map here 37 miles to Concord from here at 17 47 miles to Portsmouth and people have said oh they got lost on mountain roads not many roads around the area there's no way Kathy tried to get lost she didn't succeed if they had traveled long route 3 it would have been only 16 miles from the field the closed encounter field to Plymouth, New Hampshire if they had traveled on route 175 it would have been 21 miles there's no way to account for that 2 hours of missing time they were giving an idea of their involvement in the community Barney was on the Governor's Civil Rights Commission very active in politics Betty was active in politics they got invited to the inauguration of Lyndon Johnson January 20th 1965 and Kathy here went with them she got an invitation too so the point of this is it's not to brag about that we're talking about upstanding citizens of the community these are not people who are looking how can we make up a story and have a crummy book put out and make a lot of money this is not what we're talking about here these were people who had everything to lose and nothing to gain by going public against their will there's Barney with Senator McIntyre of New Hampshire at the inauguration there's he's appointed to the New Hampshire State Advisory Committee on Civil Rights Commission this is respectability and remember those were difficult days in the civil rights movement you may remember the early 60s there was a lot of foment a lot of stuff going on this is them in 1965 with that first newspaper article which started the whole ball rolling unfortunately or not whatever you want to say through a violation of confidentiality and against their will the story is told in the book in great detail but there they are with Delcy in 1966 they had at that point agreed to tell the full story and John Fuller had asked if he could write the book about their experience a well-known author I've looked at the comments there was an agreement that Dr. Simon would have final say on everything and boy was he rough on Fuller the papers are at Boston University Archives the original manuscript and Simon's comments on the manuscript and boy he made him toe the line in the book I also wrote two chapters on the psychophysics experiments that Betty agreed to participate in with Robert Holman and C.D. Jackson who were two employees at IBM Robert Holman was a writer and C.D. Jackson was a senior engineer and Betty had agreed to do psychophysics experiments call them in try to call them in with some limited success you will see Betty also went out she was trying to vector in craft this was a photograph taken years later after Barney's death in 1969 and we don't really know what this is but Betty found it interesting you can see the shape here it hovered above her vehicle this photograph is enlarged on the original slide there appears to be someone standing in this window it doesn't show up well here she also took this photograph of a fiery orb we don't know what that is either now we've come to the end and this is our book captured at the Betty and Barney Hill UFO