 Maybe we should first talk a bit about lucid dreaming itself. So how did you actually start lucid dreaming? Was your first experiences with that? I think one, I don't know how I first heard about it, but I do remember that when I first heard about just like the idea of it and that it was something you could do and learn, I got lucky on my first night and then I was able to get like a lucid dream right away from that. But it was about five or six years ago or even seven when I first heard about it. And I thought it was pretty cool. I was really into like writing down my dreams and stuff in a little book. And that was really interesting for me because before then I hadn't remembered anything from my dreams and even just after a few days it was like everything was super clear because your recall gets better. And that's when I really started getting into it because it was a super cool thing. Yeah, would you say that it was writing a dreams down that kind of was the main thing that made you start lucid dreaming or like start remembering all dreams? I think that's like probably the easiest step anybody can take and you can get results like right away from doing that. So, you know, you don't even need to succeed. You just need to write down dreams and they'll become more vivid, which is fun in itself. That's interesting because I feel like for beginners people think it's quite difficult to start learning or they think it's gonna take them ages but really all you need to do at least like for the most part, 80% of the difficulty is just being consistent with like basic stuff like writing dreams down, doing reality checks and getting half decent sleep. Yeah, I agree. I think the learning curve is like very steep for like mastery and for doing it very consistently, like I wasn't even able to consistently do them like for a prolonged amount of time because it's just that hard, like you always, like you have to focus on it really hard and most people just can't do that, which is understandable. But yeah, like just from doing the basic things like it is possible to see some results which I think is really neat. You know, it's like you kind of get what you put into it. Yeah, I guess like anything, right? Yeah, just like it's a weirder skill because you can't really see what you're doing. It's like it's all in your mind, so it's pretty neat. Yeah, and I guess for beginners, it can be quite frustrating sometimes if you're putting all the effort in, like you're doing reality checks, trying to learn techniques and then nothing happens. Like, you know, I think a lot of beginners have that problem where they're trying stuff, techniques or whatever, but it's not actually doing anything. Maybe not everybody, but I would say a good percentage of people maybe. Yeah, I agree. Do you have any advice for them or is it just a case of being consistent and just sticking with it? Yeah, I mean like you can try like so many different techniques and just have nothing work, but I think like if people are able to make their dreams, even just like a little bit more vivid, I would still count that as success. I think people need to like look at it that way and just like, you know, like is anything changing? And if something is, then it means you're doing at least something, right? Yeah, even any improvement is good. I think that's another reason why people should keep more of a detailed dream journal, like not just write the dreams down, but maybe like a journal about their progress in lucid dreaming as well, not just what they actually dreamed of, but you know, did you try a certain technique and then that worked or, you know, did a certain reality check work more than the other ones and that kind of stuff? Yeah, I mean, the thing about it is like everybody's different, so there's not one track to do it. I mean, if there was like one set way, I feel like all I would have to make is just one video and that's it. But yeah, like the fact is there's so many different techniques. I don't even know all of them and like they just keep coming out and there's so many different approaches you can take. Like I've read some books about it and there's like all kinds of tests you do during the day, but yeah, like you don't want to over complicate things, but you also want to keep experimenting. Yeah, exactly. I think there's different ways you could, because like you said, there's loads of techniques and they keep on coming up. Even people on Reddit like kind of create their own techniques or like their own variations of techniques and methods. But I think the fundamentals are kind of consistent in terms of engaging prospective memory, getting reality checks in some form to show up and then in some way optimizing your REM sleep. So whether that's, you know, acetylcholine or anything that will boost memory like vitamin B6 or even just writing dreams down more consistently and just generally getting good quality sleep. I think that's in my opinion, that's 80% of the battle basically. Yeah, yeah. It's definitely like there are things that you can do and certain like milestones that you can cross where you know that you're making progress that are basically universal. You know, like if you can't even remember your dreams and good luck, like you, you know. Yeah, it's just never gonna happen. I mean, there's almost no point trying to lose a dream if you can't remember your dreams because how would you even know? I mean, yeah, it's just a waste of time in my opinion. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, part of what makes it cool is the fact that like it is possible from hearing about it to succeed on the very first night and then just completely remember everything. That's what happened to me. And like sometimes when I forget about it or when I do something else and I come back and like you can get a lucid dream right away, which is really neat. But then again, like you don't wanna be tricked into thinking that's like, that's it. Like you have to actually put in the work and build up your skills. Even if you get lucky, like it's not really an indication of your progress. It's just luck pretty much. Yeah, that's so true. And I think what people should do is when you have, because when you first try and lose a dream, you have this kind of, I guess you could call it luck or yeah, beginner's luck or you know, there's this excitement and then because you're trying to do it that usually gives you a lucid dream, especially at the beginning. It's like very common that you'll, like you say, have a lucid dream your first night. I think what a lot of people do is they assume that it's gonna be that easy forever. But really what they should do is just take that excitement, just like build the momentum. And then just, yeah, it was, you know, good that you had one the first time, but now you need to actually learn how to do it consistently. Like actually learn the techniques and put in work instead of just assuming it's gonna be like sunshine and rainbows from then on, basically. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. But there's still a very, in my opinion, there's still a very important place for content about lucid dreaming that inspires people to actually want to learn it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean like lucid dreaming in YouTube, it's like kind of hard to mix because you have people who are very like, I wouldn't say they have like a short attention span, but it's just they want entertainment and like excitement. And it's really hard to like take somebody like that or just like the average person in real life and say like, you want to learn the skill you have to do, like you have to read these books and commit like a lot and do things that you don't want to do like like 3 a.m. and stuff. And it's just like being able to make it work for like a YouTube audience is really difficult, which is one of the hardest parts about my channel is like I'm trying to make things like appealing and like energetic and get people excited without giving like false hope. So yeah, I think that's one of the difficulties. I would say we've probably both been criticized for like in quotation marks, hypey content that I guess people motivated but doesn't, but in my opinion, it's like with YouTube, you won't get seen unless you have some degree of hype and excitement and it's still an overall net win because you get more people interested in lucid dreaming then they have one their first or second time, because of the beginner's lack thing and the excitement and then that makes them, that brings them into the topic. And now they're actually, in most cases they're going to want to learn how to do it and they're going to be like lifelong advocates of lucid dreaming. So I think- I agree with that. I'd rather be known as someone who kind of like hypes up the topic than somebody who's boring and doesn't really like pull people in because I mean, even just like looking at my channel and what I like, what was built, it's just so cool to see like millions and millions of people on these new tutorials come in, come into the Discord and like really get into it and then they start reading books and stuff like that. I think that's the way to do it. Like you want to interest them, you want to show them all of the cool parts about it because that's how you get someone interested. You know, like that's how you come to them with these crazy new hobbies they can try. Yeah, and if you consider like the kind of the impact that it has to reach millions of people and who didn't know about lucid dreaming or you know, they hadn't really tried and then to bring them into that topic, that's quite a bit, that's a big impact that it has on the world compared to the opposite where you have, let's say you have somebody who is not good at presenting themselves, they're not good at videos or marketing, let's say, not good at creating a good thumbnail. And yeah, they might be the most knowledgeable experience to lucid dreaming teacher, but if they're boring and if nobody watches them, and you know, if they upload their hour long videos or two hour long videos and it gets 10 views, it doesn't really help. I mean, it helps those 10 people, of course, but it doesn't bring the topic further. It doesn't have like a bigger impact. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of too bad with like YouTube. Like I wish people had the attention span and like sit down and watch those people's hour long videos because I think they have lots of knowledge and it would definitely benefit people. But at the same time, like it's just, like that's not the case. And I mean, yeah, like when I started exploring lucid dreaming, I did it because I thought it was a cool topic and I just had fun like making those videos. I definitely wasn't the most experienced. I don't have like a degree in that field or I'm not like a professional, but I just thought it was such a cool thing to like learn and talk about and share. So I just, you know, found the best guides I could and kind of talked about what I was doing. And, you know, those videos were so much fun to make. And I think people definitely like picked up on that. And I mean, when they just like heard my voice, they heard that I'm a younger person. So obviously he's not the most experienced, but you know, like I'll just kind of like learn as he does. And I think it was, yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's many benefits. I mean, it makes it easy to relate to someone. Like hearing that you're young, for example, it makes, because a lot of the audience for lucid dreaming is typically younger people. So it makes it kind of easier for them to relate on that level. And then also in terms of teaching things, especially things like lucid dreaming, I feel like it's the idea that you have to be like this qualified expert to teach something like this. I think really all you have to be, in most cases, is just one or two steps ahead of where your audience is. And it's still gonna be massively helpful to them. Like if you're explaining something that is two steps ahead of where they are and you're explaining it really well in a fun way that makes them wanna do it and it actually teaches them how to do it. I mean, there's of course lots of value in that. So I think it's, yeah, it's great. And also like on YouTube, anybody with a microphone and an idea can make a video and make a channel and talk about whatever they want. Whereas I think like more professional things like writing books or selling courses or something like that should be left to the people who really know what they're doing, which is why I'd never consider writing a book or selling anything to anybody because it's just like, I don't wanna seem more knowledgeable than I am. I just wanna entertain people. And some of the funnest videos I made were like my little animations and stuff because that's kind of what I would like to focus on. Yeah, yeah, I saw a couple of those. So that's like where you animate your dreams, right? That's my segue actually. Yeah, I can imagine, it's like very creative. That's a nice segue into my next question, which is can you tell me your best lucid dream or like one of the best? I think the most memorable one was one of my like first prolonged ones. It was, I remember, I think I did animate it where I was like standing outside. I realized like after a whole bunch of previous things that happened in the dream, I realized I was dreaming and then I, it was like one of the first real lucid dreams that I had where like I knew where I was and everything just felt like super real. I'm like, oh shoot. So I just like jumped up and I started flying and I just remember like flying over my neighborhood and all the houses that I saw and then like into a big city. And then I think I like landed on a roof and I was just like running around and doing a bunch of things. That was probably my favorite one, although I have many others. Like that was probably like the most memorable, even though I didn't do much. I think there's some of my favorite dreams as well, just like just the crazy superhero ones flying around, you know, teleporting. Yeah, it's just like once you do it and you just realize that like it's something you can do and it just feels so real. Like my best dreams are the ones that feel the most real because I've had dreams where I realized that like I'm aware in it, but everything's kind of fuzzy and I'm like floating around in the abyss and that's not really like that, that much fun like you're conscious, which is cool. But then you just kind of wake up or you know, yeah, it's just the ones where you're like really deep in a dream and you're aware and you know that you're like in like that you're asleep and everything's just so like so detailed. Like it's really hard to describe that feeling. All right, what about your worst lucid dream? Do you have like a bad experience or a lucid nightmare or something? No, I don't get nightmares that much. So I can't really remember off the top of my head. Yeah. That's a good situation. I think I've had like really weird lucid dreams that kind of turned into regular dreams where I got like stuck where I couldn't wake up and those are just kind of like weird because you're like in a room, you lie down, you're like, okay, I'm going to wake up and you like get up, but then you can't or you're in another dream. And I may have animated one of those before, but those ones are like weird because they mess with you and you just feel like you're stuck and then you eventually wake up. Yeah, that's trippy. I think my worst ones is where I'm lucid but I'm kind of like parallel, like I can't move in the dream. So I'm just sitting there like in a, sometimes it's like in a wheelchair, sometimes it's just a random chair or a bench or something. I can't move. Are you like aware that you're in a dream or is it kind of like a lower level where you know that you're in it but you don't know why you can't move? Maybe half and half. Usually I realize it's a dream, but it's still scary. Yeah, those dreams are definitely weird because there's definitely like, there's different levels and sometimes when you wake up, you're just like, what was my logic in that situation? Like when you know that you're dreaming but then you feel like there's something you can't do when in reality, like you can do anything. It's like. Yeah, I don't know. So I can't just things or beliefs. So do you have any advice for complete beginners? Like imagine there's somebody out there who's watched all of your videos or they watched, let's say 10 of them and they still can't lose a dream. What would you recommend they try? I would say get, first of all, like get your motivation back, like watch videos on like people succeeding and like what it looks like or just create like scenarios or get all of like the goals of what you want to do to get your motivation back up. And then really focus on like the fundamentals and like the things that you learn when you're first starting, like definitely get your recall going. Like if you don't have your dream recall, there's not really a point in doing all these other complicated things. So definitely like be consistent, keep a journal. I would say like dream journaling is probably the most important thing to practice. Cause once you have that, then you're kind of like, you have more things to work with. After that, just experiment with a bunch of techniques and don't give up. Like you just have to pick something and keep doing it and then see what happens. Cause some, like some techniques, you just have to keep trying them before you know if it really works for you or not. Right, it's very individual. And yeah, different for everybody. Oh, good advice. Yeah, I was thinking we can wrap it up there for the lucid dreaming one. Generally final words. Subscribe. Subscribe to both his channels. And subscribe to lucid dreaming experience. Hopefully they already are after watching this, but yeah. Cool, thanks so much for coming on. No problem.