 Hello, I'm Jeb Spalding, Chancellor of the Vermont State Colleges System, and this is Higher Education Matters. It's a program that airs monthly and is rebroadcast across Vermont on community access television discussing issues and opportunities in higher education. We tackle issues like affordability of college, the student experience, and I think you'll find our guests provoking, thought provoking, and interesting, and we hope you'll share this program with your friends. You can see it, as I said, on community access television or online at www.vsc.edu. I want to thank Onion River Community Access, ORCA, for originating this program, and we have an interesting program today. We have Dr. Karen Scalfaro as our guest, Dr. Scalfaro is the new president of Castleton University. We're awfully glad to have you here at Castleton in Vermont, and we want to learn a little bit about you and discuss some of the issues that are in higher education in general, and talk a lot about Castleton itself. So Karen, welcome to the program. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Nice to have you here in Vermont. Why don't you first tell us a little bit about Karen Scalfaro. Okay. Just so how did you get here, and what are your life experiences that brought you to Castleton? No, I appreciate that. I trace my roots to New England, so I'm really happy to be back in New England. I've had a very winding path to higher education. I actually ran a daycare center for a while, and I taught in K-12. I was a middle school teacher. And I entered higher ed probably early 2000s, and I've loved it ever since. So you've been in higher education both in the non-profit side and the for-profit side. That's true. So what are some of the big differences if there are any between the profit and non-profits? Well, I think I've had the advantage of working at an institution that was actually employee-owned. Okay. So it was labeled as a for-profit, but it really was traditional and dated back to 1881. So it was very, very similar, really in almost every way, except that we didn't have tenure and we didn't have unions. Okay. Other than that, I think I've always been concerned with quality of education. So regardless of the institutions that I've served, that's been my primary focus. Okay. In different states out in your career itself? I most recently did a stint in Pennsylvania. I served as president of Central Penn College, which is a residential, private institution with about 1,500 students. And you have spent time in New England and are in New England or so. Winter didn't really surprise you too much. No, no, no. Not at all. Okay. Well, before we get to Kastlin, Karen, you know, the name of this program is Higher Education Matters. So that's like matters in higher education. But also, higher education matters. And these days, it seems like there are quite a few people that are questioning whether higher education really does matter and that maybe, you know, too many people are going to college and they don't need to go to college. And I wonder what, you know, the perspective of a college president is on that matter. Well, I guess first I would want to answer that in terms of my personal views. I grew up in a blue collar family. No one in my family had gone to college. My parents were not college educated. And to this day, neither of my sisters have a degree. But what I've discovered myself is that through higher education, it's changed me as a person. It's changed the way that I see the world. It's made me more appreciative of differing perspectives. It's made me recognize how little I know. And I think it's served me really well. I tend to be extremely collaborative because I appreciate that every single person I meet has something for me to learn from them and something to offer to, you know, whatever matter is at hand. So I think when we are seeing these discussions about the value of a college degree, I think it's so much more than a piece of paper. And I always think that students have to, first of all, recognize at an institution what specific values that they offer. And I know we're going to get to Castleton, but when you think about a liberal arts education and the value of that in terms of how you see the world, exposure to lots of different elements of education, critical thinking, problem solving, being really creative in your approach. One thing I often think of is that people say, well, you know, I mean, I don't really think I'm going to get a better paying job because of college or not all jobs require college education. And certainly that's true. But the statistics are pretty clear that the value economically of a college diploma is worth a lot over the lifetime for most people. But people often don't realize is that actually if your children or grandchildren don't go to college there as a rule, health outcomes aren't as favorable. They don't vote as much. They're more likely to get in trouble with the law. And there are a lot of things besides the pure economics that really grow out of a college diploma. Some of the things that I find interesting though is there are many jobs out there that don't require a college diploma on a piece of paper, you know. But if you were in a candidate pool with 10 people and eight of them had a college diploma and you were one of two that didn't, the odds that you're even going to get an interview are very low. So you could say technically some of these jobs don't need a college diploma. But if there are people that have a college diploma, I think they're going to have a leg up on the rest of the candidates. I agree. Yeah. Definitely. So it's important for people to consider that. Now, what drew you to Castleton University? Well I wanted to work for the, I wanted to be in Vermont. I wanted to work for a public institution. I love that public institutions have a responsibility to the region and really to the nation, but particularly to the state of Vermont. I love that they are more affordable, that we have the opportunity to provide a liberal arts education married to pre-professional studies. So students get a great education for an affordable expectation and I think that's huge. And in your, what you've learned throughout the process of interviewing and then being president since December, what do you think it is that sets Castleton apart from other small liberal arts universities? I think there's a lot of things that set Castleton apart. The first being the Castleton way. The Castleton way is this culture on campus that is all encompassing and it's the way that we treat each other with this high level of respect, with a high appreciation for each other's differing perspectives as I mentioned before. The Castleton way is so important to the culture that students who come to Castleton go through an orientation on what the expectation is in how we treat each other at Castleton and it's really a family. And I got that sense through the interview process and I knew it's where I wanted to be. Okay. I found when I go to Castleton myself I'm going to just wander around or I'm going to go take a run and go to the gym and change that the students open the door and say hello and it just has a nice respectful and welcoming feel to it. Yes, exactly. Glad to know that. Well, is there anything that's surprised you about Castleton that, you know, that you weren't expecting before you got here? Well, I think I subscribe to the belief that if you set your expectations high people will always blow them away and that's exactly what's been happening. You know, the faculty and staff at Castleton are the most committed I've ever seen. They make a point of getting to know people by name, really understanding the students' personal situations and so that they're able to provide greater support. For example, I met with the public safety team yesterday and public safety teams at different universities have different missions. Ours is customer service. Ours is keeping students safe. It's not about ever punitive actions or teaching a lesson if you park in the wrong place. Ours is about keeping students safe and providing excellent service to them. One of our public safety officers regularly helps students with their homework. They are always there to help students if they get locked out, if they have a problem with their car. They love getting to know the students by name and I'm really proud of that. Right. I think it's a really cool thing. So one thing that sets Castleton apart in Vermont anyway, it's the only public higher education institution that has a football team. Yes. It's an important part of Castleton. Why? I mean I can't even remember President Scalfaro how many senior varsities or NCAA varsity sports you have but it's in the dozens I think. We have 28 NCAA sports and we have over 700 of our students. And why is that important? Well for a lot of reasons. It's almost like taking a double major because the students are committed to working on these teams and doing the best job that they possibly can. The practice schedules are grueling. So and they're juggling high GPAs. Our average GPA for our athletes is 3.2, another huge source of pride for Castleton. But I know that when they graduate they're showing teamwork, discipline, perseverance, a lot of skills that employers are looking for along with strong academics. So they're perfect candidates for employment. Okay, great. And another thing about Castleton is that even though it's a public institution in the state of Vermont and this majority of Vermonters that go there, you do have students not only from other states but from around the world. Tell us a little bit about the international students at Castleton and why that's a good thing for Vermonters. Well we have, we're representing right now over 40 countries with students coming and I can tell you for the fall our coaches are having a ball recruiting athletes from different countries. I know we just got one, it's either Austria or Sweden for skiing and we have some basketball players coming from Australia and why this is important to the community is it goes back to what I was saying earlier about diversity and a holistic educational experience. Some of the students that come to Castleton, two things and I'm going to partner this with our arts, our rich arts program at the university. A lot of our students are first generation college students who come in from rural areas in Vermont. They maybe have not had an opportunity to travel abroad. They may not have had an opportunity to go to a Broadway show. They may not have had an opportunity to experience different aspects of culture. This becomes part of their holistic educational experience. When they meet with international students or they have engaged with them in class, they're learning from them in the ways that they might learn from them if they were traveling abroad. All of a sudden you have another perspective in that classroom that's helping them see the world differently to expand their perspective which is a huge part of what education is, helping us grow our minds and see the world differently. So it is hugely valuable to our entire community. Great. Now, Castleton, would you describe Castleton as a liberal arts institution, a liberal arts university? Definitely. OK, so if that's the case, now a lot of people are questioning the value of a liberal arts education that maybe they don't lead to jobs or it's what you mentioned in terms of making somebody a more complete person but as far as the economics of getting a job, does a liberal arts education today actually help that job seeking desire? Well, I'm going to answer that in two parts. So the first part, in terms of a liberal arts education, absolutely is going to prepare you for a job. We know that recent scholarship shows that the top 10 skills that employers are looking for all come out of a liberal arts education embedded in the curriculum. Things like being able to be creative about ways to solve a problem, critical thinking, how you assess what's in front of you. We know that over 50% of the hires in Silicon Valley are liberal arts educated graduates. But what's unique about, here's the second part, Castleton University is that we marry that with pre-professional studies. Many, if not most of our students do engage in internship opportunities. Many of our faculty just this semester added internships as part of the curriculum. That way our students get on the job hands-on experiences as part of their complete educational experience. So it's... OK, and when I go to commencement at Castleton and sort of see all the degrees that students have earned, I'm surprised that even though it's liberal arts, there are many professional programs, whether it's sports medicine or nursing or all kinds of things. So it's not all just, well, I'm a history major, that's fine if you are. But there are a lot of professional programs that seem to have the liberal arts infused into them. That's exactly right. And I think one thing that a lot of people don't know is we have five direct pathways to professional degrees in law, in med school. Many of our biology graduates have gone on to med school. And a lot of folks don't realize that. So we're excited about that too. But in-house, our biggest program is business. Well, great. Now, higher education is in general facing some challenges these days. Just for example, in Vermont, there are roughly 25% fewer seniors in high school this year than there were 10 years ago. That demographic trend is the same in Northern New England and many rural parts of the country. And there is questioning and affordability is an issue. So I assume Castleton is facing some of the same challenges that other colleges and universities are. Would that be correct? No, that's true. We're seeing a declining number of high school graduates from Vermont coming to us for a traditional experience. And people might have seen in the paper there's some restructuring that's going on to address those changes. Correct. Can you talk a little bit about that? Sure, sure. So right now, we're in the process of rightsizing. And we're looking at our personnel. Actually, it's a true restructure. How do we gain efficiencies while still providing an excellent education to our students? Our primary focus is student success and their educational experience. So with that process and part of the restructure, we will see some personnel changes. But we are looking to press or reset button on July 1. And we have nine new growth initiatives starting in the fall. And we're looking to really expand our reach as a university beyond the Vermont traditional population while continuing to serve that population. So for me, the message is, look, I mean, it is those leaders of colleges and universities that have the foresight and courage to look at the world and reality and make the important decisions right away, not backing down, and also having an eye towards the future. And you mentioned the nine initiatives. Can we talk a little bit about those? And some of the ones, we probably don't have time to go through every one, but it'd be interesting to know what you're thinking. Sure. I think one of the things that we want to do is we want to expand our reach. And there's a lot of nontraditional students who maybe haven't thought about Castleton. We don't currently offer evening classes or weekend classes on campus. So starting in the fall, we'll be bringing courses to Rutland and to Winooski. And we'll be partnering with the Community College of Vermont and President Joyce Judy. And her vision is ultimately to have shared branding at some of her locations, because this is a great way for the Vermont State College system to serve the region. So I think that's going to be a really big one for us. We are looking at how we can enhance our athletic programs and recruit more folks coming in from outside of the state. So that's one of the initiatives that we're really excited about. We're going through a number of program development and modifications that I think are going to be really helpful in terms of making sure that we're innovative in our approach. So for example, our communications program is taking some slight twists and turns to be really competitive. And I think that that's going to be really exciting. That's great. So you mentioned Community College and courses in Rutland. And Castleton has always been a really important part of the Rutland County and Rutland City economy. How do you see that either staying the same or changing in the future, Karen? Well, I think that we will actually continue to expand our presence in the Rutland area. This is the first time that Castleton is offering courses in Rutland. We continue to have apartments there for our traditional students who choose to have a more urban experience. We have a strong partnership with the Rutland Economic Development Corporation. And I would love to see us partner for to seek out some workforce development grants to bring new programming. So for example, when I've traveled around and met with employers, I understand there's a great need for occupational therapy assistant and physical therapy assistant. And if there's ways we can work together to seek grant opportunities to be able to bring some of this programming to the region, then we'll be able to meet the need of these employers and the positions that they really need to fill. Well, that's great. And you had mentioned earlier, internships. And I assume those internships are often with employers in the region. That's exactly right. So we're working with a number of Rutland employers for their internships. We're also looking at a new model at Castleton to do a cooperative learning model similar to what you would see at Northeastern University. And I've been talking with employers about trying to put something like this together. Currently, we've convened a faculty task force, and they're looking at all the details of how we would roll something like this out. The way that it would work is instead of doing a bachelor's degree in four years, it would probably take five years. But a good portion of your holistic experience is working on the job in a paid intern. So the employer benefits, because they're customizing that educational experience and building their future employees. And it's a wonderful experience for students because in terms of affordability, they can kind of pay as they go. They're earning income while they're in school. So for some of the folks in Vermont that maybe otherwise couldn't afford to go to college, this might be a great option for them. And we would expect that these internships at the end of this cooperative experience would turn into jobs. OK, that's very exciting actually. And speaking of exciting and sort of new ways of doing things, there are a lot of universities that are putting some of their courses or a lot of their courses online or using technology in the classrooms. And I wonder what your view is of how that plays into Castleton's future. Well, I think that's going to be how we're going to be able to reach people outside of our Vermont borders is through online education. We want to take full advantage of the reciprocity agreements that are available to be able to educate folks across the country. We've applied to NIASC to actually offer Which is your accreditor. Yes, exactly the New England Association to provide a master's degree in accounting fully online. So pending approval of that, we would be looking to try to do that by the fall. That's exciting. And then obviously we'll be assessing other programs to see what makes sense to be able to offer that to traditional and non-traditional students. So if you were a parent or a grandparent or a student that was excited to go to college and worried, though, about whether they could afford to go and they came to you, president of Castleton University, and said, I'm worried about whether I can afford to go to Castleton or anywhere else. How would you respond to them? Well, I would encourage them to meet with our financial aid team. We have a number of scholarships that are available. There's also resources available through the federal government. I think that a lot of times families don't realize the number of resources that are available to them. We work with each family individually to make sure that we can lay out a plan that would make sense and that they would have a clear understanding of the expense of higher education for the whole four years. I agree. I mean, often people are scared by the sticker price. And of course, the sticker price for our state colleges in Castleton University is very favorable compared to all other publics in private. So our sticker price is good, but you're also putting a lot of your own money into scholarships as well. Yes, we are. So that can make it more affordable. And I believe that Castleton participates in Vermont's dual enrollment and early college programs. Yes, we do. So those are programs where students can actually take courses, credit bearing courses, while they're a junior or senior in high school, and actually combine their senior year of high school with their first year of college. I've heard of students that have actually, the year after they graduate from high school, they're actually entering their sophomore year. They're into their sophomore year in college. And of course, that's like a 25% reduction in the tuition cost. That's exactly right. I'm glad you brought that up. That's a fantastic opportunity for families. Yeah, and if there are people watching that have children or grandchildren in high school, they ought to plan ahead. And that's one of the things I also like to tell parents and grandparents and students is, look, I mean, there are ways to make it affordable. It's best to start planning early. And sometimes it does take a little elbow grease to achieve those kind of opportunities that can make it very affordable. But if you put your mind to it and plan ahead and put a little effort into it, I think people can definitely afford to go to college. I agree. Absolutely. So I wanted to just spend a couple of minutes talking about Karen's golf borrow the person. And I mean, if I understand it right or as I remember, you have one or two master's degree and a PhD and you're a writer, right? Right, that's true. So tell us a little bit about that. I did a master of arts degree in writing and literature and a master of fine arts in creative writing. I'm working on a novel. And I'm planning to do a workshop this summer. And I'll be working with Lee Martin, who his debut novel was up for a Pulitzer Prize. So I'm really excited to work with him. I do. I love to write. Are you going to actually publish a novel at some point? Yeah, that's the plan. That's the plan. This is actually my ninth manuscript. I've written a number because I wrote one a novel for my master of arts. I wrote a novel for my master of fine arts. I've written a number of manuscripts just through, especially when I was teaching, I would love to inspire my middle school students to write. And so I would bring and I worked on a novel with them, where we would talk about it and write it together. So I've not been in a place where I was ready to put it up to an agent yet. But I think this is the one, the one I'm working on now. You must be pretty busy. So I was wondering whether I could do college presidents ever occasionally teach a course or anything like that? Or is there just no time for that? There's not time for it now, but I fully intend to do that. I'd say within maybe two years of my tenure, I'm really looking forward to being able to get back in the classroom. Well, that's good. Yes. And do any outdoorsy kind of stuff? I love to hike and bike and kayak. And I'm really looking forward to enjoying Lake Bombazine and the hiking trails and everything like that. Yeah. Do a little running. So what is your, that's Karen Scalfard, the person. And we're really excited to have you at Castleton. Thank you. When you look five or 10 years down the road, what's your vision for what Castleton is going to be like or become in five or 10 years? We are going to see growth because we're looking to expand the populations of students that we serve. And as we open ourselves up to more distance education, we'll be able to serve more students with a good portion of them being online or through distance education. I feel that our faculty are on board with innovation in the classroom and outside of the classroom. So I think when folks have this freedom to try new things and to really explore what the future will bring in terms of the employer's needs, we're going to be at the forefront of that. So I'm excited about that. And I think it's probably important to have that kind of long-term vision because it is going to be a rocky road for a lot of colleges and universities out there. That's right. What people might want to keep in mind, though, is that as public institutions, the Vermont State Colleges do get state support. And Vermont puts a relatively low amount of support into their public colleges. But compared to what it's like to be a private or independent college, that support is very, very helpful and should provide some, I think, security for prospective parents and students that their institution that their child is going to go to or the student themselves is likely to be there for the long run. So I fully expect Castleton to thrive into the future. As do I. Yeah. And it does mean that you have to deal with the realities. And sometimes in higher education, it seems in some places that people want to keep doing things the way they always did it. And I kind of suspect that that won't work out either, will it? No. We definitely can't just do things the way we've always done. We have to rise above that. We have to try new things. We have to look at how we're going to differentiate ourselves and how we're going to be competitive, and we will be. And what do you see as Castletons like differentiator now and in the future? So this is perfect because it circles back to what we started with, this idea of the Castleton way. While you're developing curriculum that makes sense for the future of employment, you also have to have that personal touch. And students need to feel that they're cared for and that their individual needs are met. So our faculty and staff just take that extra effort to get to know our students and help them through that process. Because if you start school and you don't finish, you've defeated the purpose. So we want to see our students graduate, and we want to help them find the careers that they're eager to pursue. And so Castletons does have a robust support system for students that may need academic or emotional supports? All of the above, we absolutely do. We have a wellness center on campus that is utilized quite frequently. We have a series of academic support mechanisms in place. We have an amazing team in our library where students can come in and not only work quietly, but also have additional guidance from our team members there as well. And many of our librarians are also faculty. So you have folks that really understand pedagogy and are able to support students in really robust ways. That's great. One of the things I always find is that when I run into people that had maybe even gone to Castleton or been there a long time ago, and then go to visit the campus now, they go, wow, this place has changed. It's just a gorgeous campus. It is gorgeous. And it's interesting if people haven't had an opportunity to go visit Castleton, they should. So we really are down to a matter of 30 seconds, doctors go far. So I want you to give your closing pitch on Castleton is a great place for people to think about going to college. Well, I think when anybody is looking at an institution to pursue a degree, it's really important that they step foot on campus. So to your point, common visit. When you step foot on campus, it should feel like home. And I know when I stepped foot there, it felt like home for me. So I know others will enjoy all that we have to offer at Castleton. And before they show up on campus, they can go to castleton.edu or just Google Castleton and you'll have a full website that'll tell you what the academic programs are and who to get in touch with and how to get there and all that kind of thing. And we have a brand new virtual tour. Well, great. Well, thank you very much. This has been an interesting program. And under your leadership on SureCastleton, we'll have a bright future. I want to thank our viewers for tuning into Higher Education Matters. And I hope you'll pay attention to when the next program will be airing. Thank you very much.