 We apologize for that. I have mentioned you are looking into the breast cancer treatment here in Kenya. And like Jessica has mentioned, I'm speaking to Jane Francis. She's a lecturer at JKU. Good morning. Good morning, how are you? I'm very, very good to have you here. Thank you. Now, there is some statistics in Kenya. For cancer, how things have been, how things are and where we're hoping to be, like globally, this is a 2018 statistics, globally 2018 statistics show that breast cancer incidence is rate in Kenya, estimated at 40.3% with a mortality rate of 17.8%. Would you be having statistics how things are in Kenya now, 2020? 2018 to 2020, the actual statistics I may not have right now, but what I know is that cancer is the worst killer at the moment, actually much more than COVID. Surprisingly, we seem to have given COVID so much prominent over and above. Yes, it is true when you get COVID, you go maybe within a short time and so forth, but we know also you can prevent COVID through washing, sanitizing, masking, and doing all these other things. Unfortunately for cancer, we cannot pinpoint exactly what is the cause of cancer. Regardless of whichever part of the country you come from in Nairobi or upcountry, it doesn't matter. But they speak of risk factors. It could be chemicals, it could be contraceptives, it could be things that we are eating, it could be lifestyle, maybe we are not exercising and so forth, but these are only risk factors. But even children who need not have exercise are getting cancer. We have had cases of over 300,000 children in Kenya have it. And last month we celebrated childhood cancer month and we discovered that could it be genetic that these children have, but many of them also have high cancer rate in Oblastoma. So the causes of cancer are really not quite known. They are always discovered as risk factors, which we could just try to prevent. Alright, now in the interest of time, there is an article or a research that was done in 2018. The article was published on December 3rd, 2019. And it showed we have 57% of women who have cancer and 43% and maybe to try to bring out the real deal, men do not know there is men cancer out of their breast. What we are doing here, we ignore the fact that men can have cancer. Can get it, yeah. Is it true that you can have cancer? Yes, during my six years of survivorship, I have met three men who have cancer. I met one in KNH, I met another one in a support group and I met another one just somewhere, he is very private. He doesn't like being known, but they do have. In fact, quite often if you see a man with a little bit big breast, we don't know if they also have some hormone or both. Most of the time it's both, but one will get sick. But they can also get sick both, it doesn't matter. But the fact is that men also get breast cancer, so whatever is factors that are being mentioned, they should even try to avoid even obesity, all these are mono imbalance. Personally, I really discourage the use of chicken on the table as a meal. I mean broiled chicken, broiler. You know they do a lot of injection, that particular chicken. So sometimes I have a feeling it could be affecting our young people because you know cancer cells grow in like 10 years. So you start this teenager, you know these are youth TV. So you start this young man going for chips every Sunday, cuckoo, you know all that. And we know that that can affect. But then of course lack of exercise, staying on TV, gaming and all these things, so it is possible. But I'm not saying that is a cause for men cancer, but I'm just saying it is again another risk factor and let us also know that men get it and they should also go for screening. Because the earlier it is found at stage 0, stage 1 and the treatment starts and then they can be able to, the chances of survival are quite high. What would you say has been the problem of treating cancer? The problem of treating cancer is that it is very, very expensive, very expensive to treat. So when somebody is told you have cancer, so of course number one you know most likely you are going to die. First and foremost you don't have the money. Let me say it can cost well over 2 to 3 million in a government facility and maybe almost 5 million in a private facility because the chemotherapy are so expensive. In my days I think one came out was 90,000. I don't know how much it is but again it also depends on each, on different types of cancers. So what I would suggest is that the government through the universal health care and the NHIF really tries to subsidize, you know the Ministry of Health should be funded enough such that NHIF can be able to subsidize the treatment costs of this chemotherapy, of the radiotherapy and also the surgery. Surgery usually is not very expensive but the chemo's and the radios are very expensive. You need several sessions. Sometimes like me I needed a minimum of 6 chemo's, a minimum of 30 sessions of radio and I had 2 or 3 surgeries almost every anyway by the time I finished. So it's very expensive. For quite some while I have seen even in the house in the parliament I have seen their calls to help persons with suffering from cancer and even cancer treatment here in Kenya. So far do you think we have the political will to enable us to fight cancer in our country even from the food that we eat? I don't think so because we have actually had several matches to parliament. We have given petitions. We have even gone to NHIF again pleading for less payment but as far as parliament is concerned, in fact you'll only hear them speak about cancer when one of their own is sick. After that you'll never hear it. We've tried like 3 times a year most of the until of course Kevin came to go with petitions to parliament that they declare cancer and national disaster and therefore put in place measurements that can be able to stop or whatever these risk factors are, whether it is the chemicals, do they look at the chemicals, whether it is smoking, what have they done to stop BAT? Controlling. Whether it is drinking, liver cancer. Liver cancer is killing many, many. Especially young people. Especially young people because they drink this hard stuff not knowing the repercussions it has on their health. What does the government do to the BIA industry? Now looking into what the government should be doing or the government should do we have seen an uncommunicable diseases like say TB being treated for free. Not even TB. I mean we have seen them being taken care of. Now can we get to a point where by cancer treatment in Kenya could be considered free when you go to either screening or for the treatment of cancer. Can we have a policy whereby anyone who has cancer in our country can be treated for free? No, the parliament can be able to push those bills and I know there are several ladies. I think there is Gladys Wanga and there is this two women from Laikipia. They have been trying to pass some bills which can lead government to declare it a national disaster and therefore put in place enough funding, enough personnel to really work at ensuring that first of all when the screening is well done the treatment and even more doctors are treated. All these have to be put in place and then of course the government must budget enough. So that now they pay for the medication. I think some of it is actually important. We don't have it here. So the government just has to pump in much more money there as they did for example for HIV. And then you also look for support because today I think HIV is free. So if they could do that for HIV why can't they do it for cancer? And maybe the HIV they have more people than the cancers. Now let's talk about someone who has cancer already living with it, controlling it, managing it. Are you going for chemo and getting other medications? How else can you help yourself knowing it's expensive to treat cancer? Do you have alternatives? There are alternatives. Let me say there are alternatives but I may not say they should be the only ones to be taken and not do the conventional treatment. So for example in my case I have what is called triple negative breast cancer. So with triple negative breast cancer yes you can do chemo, radio and surgery but in the long run for me now to maintain the cancer cells that they don't grow I need to be on harbors and supplements which can be able to help me to suppress the cancer cells from growing. And of course somebody else who may not have because they people don't have and they go for the alternative medicines. They will go to different harbor doctors. What I don't know is that how can I say that you know there is no measurement. So I would not say don't do it because if you have no alternative then it is better to do it. Then you have to look for the right doctor who can be able to maybe measure the best. For me I take supplements in terms of just herbs from the garden. For example I take a lot of Locco Vegetables Managu, Suga, all those you know, Saga. There is a Temisia which I have seen Madagascar has been taking Tanzania. Maybe before you explained it all. Who recommended them? How did you know they can help? For me I read, I choose to read and I watch news and I could see that Tanzania and Madagascar and Iberia were able to even contain the COVID. People have not died as much. So even yesterday, just yesterday the president of Madagascar has gotten out tablets of anti-COVID, CVO. And I'm sure they are really helping there. So I think every country should also and especially for Asia, promote the herbal doctors who know indigenous medicines that were used by our grandparents. Actually they were living longer than us. So those indigenous plants, vegetables and whatever that they were using can be used. Of course there are also others but you see the ones from outside can be very expensive. This is one of them peak. So that to boost my immunity, these ones they speak, they shield and so many. There are others we buy from HealthU. Most of them cost over 5,000. So they are very expensive. But you see now these are from the west, they are measured and so I know the dosage. But these others from out there I have to do guesswork and hope that when I take Artemisia, when I take Baobab, when I take Shea seeds per glass, every day I'm able to to boost my immunity. So let me not say so much guesswork because there is also the doctor who we rely on. So let us also continue to study on our own and help ourselves. But still the government can encourage our doctors, our herbal, because there seems to be some tension between the herbal world and the conventional medicine world. You see if we're looking into the supply of cancer in Kenya, we have it even in the rural areas. We have even the vulnerable families getting cancer. You just mentioned about the children. Last month you're looking into that. But now I'm interested in the herbal that you're using because you'll be helping someone else who is not able for the chemo, who is not able to go buy the conventional way of treatment. This was how you have been using them for how long and do you think they have been helpful to you? Yes, for me, as I said if you can afford do the conventional medicine first. Do the chemotherapy because it's very strong. They say it's a poison that kills the cancer cells and shrinks the tumours. The sessions you are told 6 or 10 or 8, I don't know some people. I have one patient who has just got 18 of them, 18 sessions. So whatever you have to do first because it works. But then after that somebody once told me I wanted to take an insurance. Somebody said we won't give you. I said why? Because you will never cure from cancer. In fact it was because the stage 3 would be out of kisha, out of malice and mohaka. The next years. Yes, the next years. Six years down the line I'm there. As I've said I take a termination since 2017. I had a surgery that couldn't heal. So every time I would take that, like most of them I take three days. What I consider for example at Emisia, the whole of 2017 up to this time of COVID. These others, whenever I'm taking water I put, I put my baobab, I take my seacids, I put in the water. Others like lemon, ginger, turmeric which I think all of us know for the common cold. That is also very good in fighting cancer. Because like turmeric also helps to control your blood levels because it has antioxidants. The ginger also is able to cleanse your your sephagas and the chest to clear it. So that you avoid now things that you see cancer like breast can metastasize to the lungs if it finds some weaknesses. So all these herbs as we know them and I would recommend everybody uses daily. It's like it's plant. It'll be helpful. It doesn't have like you can take too much. But of course it's always good to do some kind of moderation and if possible plant for yourself without chemicals. Alright thank you. I want to bring in the other guest. Thank you so much for joining us. Though a bit late we're running out of time but we have to hear from you. How are you Damaris? Welcome to I-24 TV. Now we are looking into the breast cancer. We have been in Kenya, the treatment, the troubles that have been there and the calls that the people have been calling for the cancer treatment and making sure there is enough awareness in our country. Maybe briefly you could mention about your story. How are you? How are you? I'm diagnosed in 2012. I was diagnosed with cancer. So I got results. I was diagnosed with cancer. I didn't know what to do because I got into some cases when I was at home and I had a fever. I had a fever. I was diagnosed with cancer. But when I went to the hospital I had a fever and I had a fever and I had breast cancer. I went to the hospital and I got results. I was diagnosed with this disease. I was diagnosed with this disease. In 2014 I got a stroke out of pressure because of this lamp. I was diagnosed with this disease. In 2017 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. So I went to the hospital and I was diagnosed with a girl with whom mycera got discharged. I was diagnosed with cutlers but I was left with surgery. I went to the hospital after that I got Bella pregnant and she gave birth. I got a female tumor and I had breast cancer. That is the main reason I recurred from before. So I went to a hospital and I was told about the Halie, Mamogran. I was shocked, but I had a lot of results. I was sure that I had a lot of results, but I didn't pass. So I was told that I was going to die. I was told that I was going to die. But I was told that I was going to die. I was told that I was going to die. I was told that I was going to die. Due to the covid pandemic I was taken to Tokyo. These friends and kids came home from the school. They were taken to the school. They were taken to theύ.... but they were taken to the school. I don't know. I've been through a lot of results, and I'm not sure if I've ever experienced that, but the real results I have are the ones that have passed because I have been affected, and I've had a lot of problems because I have cancer. I have been through a lot of and I was in this house that day because I was working. I was in this house and I don't know what else is there. So, I was thinking about what if I would go home and then get sleep. I asked myself why would I have a mother problem when she was going to work. She said, what do you do? I had to do a mammogram test to see if the cells were still there. I told my wife that I had to go to work. I told my mother that I had to go to the hospital. So I went to the end of the year. I was told that I had to go to the hospital. So you had to go to the end of the year to see if the cells were still there? Yes, I had to go to the end of the year. So you had to go to the end of the year to see if the cells were still there? Because I was told the cells were still there. I went through a lot of pain, scars. So in the beginning of the year I was told it was all right, it was simple. I said I was told it was all right. In the end I was told it was all right, it was all in bad condition. So, in 2019, I was told that I was going to become a chemist, so I decided to go to the next shop. So, my name was created and I was told that I was going to become a chemist, fake. I asked them to come and go with me because I was really depressed. I took a fake video, but it did not matter. I took off my shoes and saw that there was some kind of relationship between us. I was told, I have to confirm it, confirm. I confirm what's happening is chemicals have some effect on my blood so I came here and he told me that he was not able to go back to the village but he said if I was able to go back he was going to leave and go to the village so I went there so I went I'm out of time, Jane. We are supposed to end at 10. I'm hoping that my director gave us at least two minutes or so. Now, this has been her problem and I'm sure it's a problem of many. Yes. Creating awareness and when they know coming forth to say it. Now, you helped her come out of her situation and accepting this is what she is going through. And a majority of people go through that. I'm sure you have had a number of them. Creating awareness and helping someone to come out of it. It's not something easy. As we conclude this interview, what call would you making out there? Okay. So, I want to tell all our listeners, wherever you are, please let us not stigmatize somebody because they have had cancer. Or COVID, in this day also. Because many are being stigmatized. You can't do the same place even in the house. You have to be isolated. Yes, you can isolate, especially COVID, because it is infectious. But cancer is not infectious. I cannot get it from maybe cervical, but not breast. So, let us be there for each other. Let us support members of the families who have it. And both have naturally, as I said, she has same with food. You see, when there was COVID, there was no food. People couldn't work. So, I went out of my way to reach out to friends, relatives, families, and thank God, since March, I want to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has come out with their 100, 500, and supported these cancer patients. We have over 100 of them in Kangemi, even like their two. One, I even was to come with her. But you see, not everybody also likes to come out in the open. And speak here. It's not easy. Some of us, I thank God, I don't mind speaking for others. Because that can also give them a chance to survive. The theme for this breast cancer month is give up, save lives. So, let us go out there and give up. On 24th of October, you can come and join us and meet all these cancer patients. Bring us Ugarli. We have a pay bill number, 514422. Send a kilo of Ugarli or two, and we shall give each one of them something. So, that at least they can cushion themselves against the effects that come with too much treatment chemotherapy, radio, or even what she's saying, use of those ginger. And those who know about how much ginger or how much alcohol you can use, also come out and support and help others. Because everything has to be taken in moderation. But in our case, she had no alternative. She had no NHSF. We're trying to help her get 6,000 per year, maybe, nothing for somebody. Maybe somebody's lunch. You could go out and she's not the only one. I have more than, let's say, 6,000 cancer patients, even here in Nairobi, though we have cancer survivors, association in Kenya, and we have many others who need just to pay this 6,000 so that they can even access all these mammograms and all these other tests that you continually need to do every three months, six months to monitor. Because, as I told you, cancer, even when you do chemo, just goes in remission, is not necessarily gone. So, you have to keep monitoring. And if it tries to come, you get the right medicine. There are others who take medicine, hormonal therapy every day, like I have a lady in Kawanguare. She can't afford, she needs 5,000, 4,800 to buy medication for her month, because they have to take a man, a thermoxyphen, others take some of the medicine as side effects on the bones, so they're having issues. So, all these challenges are, challenges cancer patients go through and they need a lot of support from the members of the family, from friends, but particularly from the government. Let us see what is this universal healthcare is, and how it is really helping people with cancer and other NCDs. I want you to do two things. One, you said come, where will you be? Yes. And number two, repeat the pay bill number slowly. Okay. So, we shall be at St. Paul's Chapel, University Chapel. It's just at the roundabout of the university on Saturday the 24th of October and it will be from 9 to 1 p.m. and we are appealing for food, we are appealing for this support to buy these are processes when your breast is removed, you feel, you know, you are not longer a woman, so when we are able to get a little money, we are able to make this and also buy for, especially in Newcastle patients. Also some of them, when they don't have hair, they need to cover, you know, the hair, because when you do chemo, every, the hair goes out. Right. So, for that period, you know, it's difficult to deal with, but also as a health preventive from getting colds, especially when it's raining and it's good to cover your head. Yeah. So, we need to help buy them such things, warm clothing, so that they are able to manage. So, the pay bill number is 514422 and the account is C.A. Breast, Cancer Breast, C.A. Breast, whatever, or just write your name, but the important thing is pay bill number 514422. All right. Thank you so much for coming. Apparently, we didn't have enough time to talk about this matter conclusively. I'm hoping everything will be all right. I'm wishing you the very best. And if you're out there and you've had the call, please do what you can do to help our people out there. Thank you so much for being part of us back home and thank you so much for coming. My name is Adreva Hillary. She has been my guest, or they have been my guest, to Damaris and General Francis. She's a lecturer at JQ Art. At this point, we conclude our interview this morning. Trust you will be enjoying your day and I'm wishing you the very best day when you go out there. Do what you do to get the best of you. My name is Adreva Hillary. Goodbye.