 So in the last session, the idea was to bring it all together. And I think given what we are on time, what we're going to do is we've got Pak Muksin here, who's from the Kaurani Ministry of Economic Affairs, the Governor of Indonesia. And we haven't heard from them today. So what I'm going to do is ask Pak Muksin to give some reflections on the session today and what he's seen. And then what I'm going to do is actually give the audience the opportunity to ask some more questions of the panelists. And we'll just run for another 10 minutes. OK, it's Pak, and over to you. Thank you, Mr. Mondiretto. Thank you for the first opportunity. My name is Muksin. I am from the Coordinating Ministry for Economic Affairs. I am representing Mr. Monty Giriana. So I have been listening to the discussion, and this is very productive discussion, because this is a wrap-up discussion. I've made some notes. I hope it's going to be useful. So talking about our ADD investment, we have to see into three perspectives, I guess, from an environmental perspective, policy perspective, economic policy perspective, and also social perspective. So I am so interested in the last presentation, and maybe your presentation. This is a very good presentation. And also, I've learned a lot about how to develop policies. And in this ADD investment, there are three main questions, I guess. The first one, how to convince private sectors to engage in our ADD mechanism, whether it is a cost or a benefit for those private sectors, whether the cost or the benefit will be in the long term or the short term. This is very important. And I see in the last presentation there is cost-benefit analysis, but I would like to compliment not only cost-benefit analysis, but also, I call it investment impact analysis. Not only about we lose or we get benefit, but these private sector engagement will have positive impact. It's very important, I guess. And the second question, not a question actually, but it's like a perspective, how if they are convinced we have to endorse, how to endorse? For your information in the Coordinating Ministry for Economic Affairs, we try to endorse the engagement of private sectors into policy, policy, research, also leadership, because we meet private sectors also. And also partnership, how to bridge a partnership between government, private sector, and community. And besides, clarity on land tenure and land use rights, as you may know, the government of Indonesia has put a top priority, agrarian reform, which involves two aspects, asset reform and access reform, together with social forestry. And the third perspective, how to put forest sustainability in these cases, REDD mechanism, on the one hand, together with economic growth, because if we talk about REDD and we only see from ecology perspective, it's not enough. But we have to see also on the social, and this is also more important, economic perspective, how to put them together. Economic perspective means economic growth and economic distribution. And from this one, the government, in this case the Coordinating Ministry of Indonesia, has endorsed three main projects, not projects, but three main policies. The first one is social forestry. This is delivered by the Ministry of Forestry and Environment. And we engage the private sectors. Private sector can engage in, it's like an off-taker, maybe you know off-taker, those who buy the product of social forestry itself. This is very important, how to sell the product of local community. And also partnership, infrastructure and so on. And social forestry has been implemented in Java Island in cooperation with state-owned company in forestry, Perhutani. So nowadays the government has, it's like a license, 1.5 million hectares for social forestry. This is a great contribution for local community. And also a great opportunity for private sectors to be involved in this, like a program. The second one is fire prevention, but on the basis of cluster. We try to mobilize companies, both palm oil companies and also acacia estate companies, to prevent fire around their concentration. But in cooperation with local community. This is, we call it cluster. Why cluster? Because the prevention activities are arranged by a group of companies. And the last one is about pit ecosystem restoration, maybe the last presentation also very clear. I will not explain about that. But let me sum up my conclusion about the concrete actions government could take to attract private sector investment. The first one, government must set up like a policies, special policies to enable investment, already investment environment. It means that it must be positive. And also government should endorse like a pilot project. This is a real concrete, a real example in the field. Without, without good pilot project, private sector will not interested in doing. I think that's all my comment on this. And I'm sorry if I put some experiences from my office. Thank you. Thanks very much for that. So I think the audience hasn't had that much of a chance to ask questions. So I wanted to just throw it open again for the last 10 minutes or so. If there's any questions for the audience. I know the lady there had a question earlier. Hello, Rahmawati Rinovinani took Indonesia. Some of the speakers mentioned earlier about blended finance. But I want to put an emphasis on the need for an ODA within it. So in Indonesia, I think the discussion on blended finance is still very early. And we need more reference on this because what is lacking from the discussion is the issue or the presence of ODA. My question is maybe for the presenters from the private sectors on, you know, I don't understand the market value or the market share you have and whether you're going to be interested in Europe. But the European Commission just launched a sustainable finance action plan in which the first action is on taxonomy. So you can imagine how important it is to engage in this discussion. And on the action plan, they will only come up with a regulation on the prospectus of green born in 2019. So I worry if there is a gap in how are you going to tackle the gap with that and what you have now in your portfolio. And another question will be on the risk side. It's more general question, like how would you include risk associated with not only the climate but also the social factors on your capital requirements? Thank you. OK, could you all hear that question? No. Well, because of? Apologies, we're struggling a little bit to hear the detail of the question. But I think I picked up a few things in there about the need for ODA directly to countries as well and to not get caught up in sort of the interesting appeal, perhaps one of finance. I think on that one, absolutely, I think there's a large need for development capital to go to a variety of end users. I think from my perspective, where I get excited seeing synergies with development capital and private capital is that there are corporations or investment funds, such as ourselves, who have the access to get the money out there and put to work quite quickly. And I think when it comes to deforestation and forest risk and climate risk, we all realize that we need a variety of solutions immediately. So that to me is one purpose of using development capital alongside private. That's another way to do that. I think I didn't quite catch everything on the EU's new sustainable finance rules. But I would say a major driver for our business is the pickup of sustainable finance in Europe. The vast majority of our clients are European, very progressive on environmental, social, corporate governance issues, and increasingly interested in what that can mean in emerging markets. That conversation for the past 10 years, I think, has been very focused on sort of simple things like good governance in developed countries, safety, health and safety, those kinds of things. But increasingly, that conversation is turning to the sustainable development goals. And I think that's a tremendous opportunity for forest departments, environment departments, climate change, business, investors, banks to get together and really articulate how the activities we finance are involved in on the ground are contributing to sustainable development goals. From our perspective, our work in Asia is really contributing to four of them. And I just want to highlight them for the diversity of benefits and actions that people like ourselves are contributing to and by ourselves, I mean all of you. Number eight, on decent work and economic growth, the jobs that we're providing, and that's actually where I see the biggest current gap is the next generation of sustainable business practitioners who understand the environmental science, who understand the market sides, and really training up the people who are gonna carry these businesses forward for the next 50 years. I think that's an under section that's got not enough attention paid to it. What we're doing in schools to get the next generation involved in these businesses and enforce conservation. On the risk side, there's an interesting thing with finance. Some people really like risk because it means they might get a better reward. So again, it's about matching those appetites as well as the ability to mitigate risks. From our perspective, we're able to operate in a relatively higher risk in the broad spectrum of finance environment because we have dedicated resources to working with partners, to paying attention to environmental issues, social issues, and putting the work in to make those risks into opportunities. So for us, we don't see social risk as a great problem. Instead, we see community forestry opportunities in three different projects. That's an opportunity to engage people, to bring them into support for your company. We'll also just extending the area you can operate on and getting better scale. It's kind of a clear win-win. So it's about finding, is there a flip side to that risk that you can manage for a better outcome for yourselves and for others? And that's this area of shared value, which I think is really exciting. I think you had a question. Yeah, I just wanted to follow up on, sorry, my name is Grant Rosiman from the High Carbon Stock Approach. The theme of communities and seeing what incentives and benefits can we provide to them to achieve the forest conservation and in reflecting on the themes that we've had here of risks and safeguards and the government agenda of social forestry and benefiting the local community and that they are really the long-term managers of the land. And so trying to think of, I guess my question is, any reflections from the panel in the sum up of how can we transfer the finance, particularly from private sector and from the market, from the supply chain, through to those communities to achieve that long-term protection? This is a key question, I think it's come up a little bit. How can we generate this finance that's coming from the commodities? The commodities are benefiting from these landscapes, but they're not putting the money back and investing it back into the communities. Thank you. Yeah, I think that is a key question. We see a lot of projects being developed and happening with people who are running away with the profits out of consultants and not the local people. And they are being involved in the projects, they're being consulted, they're not being facilitated. And as I mentioned, they are the ones, they're the custodians of these landscapes. They're going to use them, they're going to degrade them if they're not being helped to go for sustainable development. So they need to be facilitated. And the only way to do that is provide financial mechanisms that can reach them. At the moment, I think it's surprising how few microfinance facilities there are in Indonesia compared to many other middle income countries in the world. So I think there's really a gap there in the market, you could say, for banks to step in. So private finance institutions. But then again, we also see there's a lot of risks in the landscape itself. I mean, one dry season and the Indonesian government looks at 20 billion loss as calculated by a will bank. Yeah, so there's that risk, but that risk is also there at the ground level for those communities. So there need to be mechanisms for ensuring that by the lack of proper trade change there's a need for minimum offtake, minimum prices that can all help to facilitate these models to start taking a reasonable level of risk to go into that landscape and help the restoration of it on a business-based approach. But yeah, these mechanisms are lacking. I think that starts both at the private sector, but I think also it's something where the government needs to look at what it can do to help private sector to set up mechanisms like this. Actually I have a slightly different views. I don't entirely agree with that. I think that a lot of the legal regimes that have been set up around environmental services actually include very clear beneficiary mechanisms and you're seeing those rolled out and a lot of the, a lot of the, whether you like projects or not, the VCS projects require clear beneficiary arrangements. What we've seen in fact is in some of those projects where a lot of capital has been invested in the projects, the commitments to the communities are fulfilled, but the problem is there's no revenue coming in because the car market's sort of basically dwindling. And so your challenge is, how do you actually get enough revenue to provide the benefits that you promised in the first place? And so you've almost seen, I think it was, we didn't really talk about it at all today, but where early projects have gone and promised a lot to local communities, but because the markets are not been there, there's no revenue to flow. So on the slide we just had up, you promised to offer people revenue from carbon credits, you promised to offer them schools and infrastructure. We're only gonna get that as a healthy car market, which actually values those things that you're creating, which can then deliver the benefits. So before we can even get to benefit sharing, we actually need to create the value in those benefits so you can deliver it in the first place. And that's part of the challenge. But a lot of the projects I see, in fact, there's a very, and the IFC bond, which we did, which IFC issued, that is underpinned by very strong environmental, social, self-guards, and very strong benefit sharing mechanism to the fact that if the project doesn't make between four and $6 million a year by selling carbon, it basically falls over. So it's high risk in effect for everybody. Thank you. I would like to comment about how to transfer funding from private sector into landscape. This is a very difficult question, but I'm gonna try. The government of Indonesia has issued a new regulation, government regulation number 46, I guess. It is about economic instruments. But this is still very general policy. And it's not describing about mechanism transfer, but I guess this new regulation can be, it's like a legal basis to make a specific regulation about a transfer mechanism from private sector's budget into the landscape. Because as far as I know that private sector actually has spent special funding like GSR, Corporate Social Responsibility, but we don't know where the money goes to and how much it is. And I think in this moment we need to think about a specific regulation to arrange this issue. I agree with this. But so far we have no, as far as I know, we have no specific ministry regulation how to transfer this. As I know that money from donor can be transferred into the national budget under grant regulation or HIPAA regulation, but the budget from private sector, I'm not working in the ministry of finance, but as far as I know, so maybe we can use these 46 regulations as a legal basis to develop special regulation about this one. Thank you. Is there any more questions from the audience or any, the lady at the back? My question is for ministry of economic coordinator. I'm still confused for foreign investor. I'm Irma, I work as a legal consultant. So in case of foreign investor want to invest in green projects or red, so usually first of all, we have to check the negative list of investment whether the foreign capital can invest for such kind of investment. So my question is, is there any specific regulations that allow foreign investor to invest in that kind of investment? Or is there only invest through capital market like to invest in bond? That's my question. I need like a confirmation from ministry of economic to confirm that right now, capital investment for foreign projects is there is no specific regulation yet issued by the government? Maybe we can check it, I don't remember the content of the government regulation number 46, but it's about economic instruments. I think a green bond is included. I don't remember, I'm really sorry. But maybe we can check in this government regulation number 46, this is all about economic instruments. But for specific regulation like ministry regulation as far as I know, there is no so far, thank you. Maybe one thing I can add, I know for the carbon investment side, for international investors it is very difficult to get into the market in Indonesia. The costs for establishing ecosystem restoration concession or a carbon concession are very high. It costs millions and millions of upfront money, but the international investor cannot provide an investment directly. It has to go through a local company. And the local company of course then needs to be a very trusted party. The local company will invariably have 51% of the shares of the company. So the international company can't control the money they have to put in upfront in that project which is already a high risk project because of all the things that we've been discussing. So that makes it a very unattractive landscape for investment for international investors. I think the government could do something about by at least allowing a 50-50 share. And that could immediately help to channel more international funding into this from the private sector. But even more, like if we look at other sectors, some of the sectors that are actually drivers of deforestation in some of these sectors, international finance can come in directly. So why in the carbon sector is not being allowed? I do think the government needs to establish the right conditions, the right social and environmental safeguards for such investors to come in, but they need to establish those anyhow also for the local company. So once that regulation is there, I think there should be nothing against getting international finance to come in directly. Okay, well, I'm given with quite a bit of time going to wrap up before I do. I'm gonna ask just each person on the panel just to give one thing they think is the most important thing to drive private sector investment and ask you just to say that in one sentence, so. I think it's about finding the synergies across everybody's interests. So already just in two days, I've had a lot more fruitful conversations and I think it's about openness to talk about what you wanna get out of something, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are so that you can collaborate to find the right solutions you can put on the ground. I'll take this opportunity to plug, I've been hauling around some sustainability reports that describe our company and how we work in some of the types of projects we do and the benefits that come alongside those. So if you're interested to learn more about how forestry investment can work in the region, come see me and grab one of these reports, thanks. Well, from the climate finance point of view as an institution, I think that GCF has a particular role in this chain of actors where private sector requires some supporting in from institution like GCF taking the risks, but also GCF can have a role in supporting governments providing the enabling conditions for private sector participation. So we are open for business and looking for any projects. I think the key thing to do now is to invest in the design of bankable projects, both at the landscape level as well as for the innovative commodities and innovations in proven commodities that we're looking at. And I think that's where a lot of the public financing can go in terms of facilitating that and also de-risking that. I'll try to summarize from both of us. So, I think Muxin, yeah. But Muxin agree that a mechanism to connect between private sectors to the forest need to be established. So that's one thing that's really good. And that's basically related to my summary that the government of Indonesia already established quite a lot of regulations as the environmental instruments from 46 to fiscal transfer to high ATV and high carbon stock protection and stuff like that. So, and the most importantly is a natural capital accounting. So we can actually use that to be used as our set of indicators in channeling funding to forest protection in Indonesia. And the other things is that private sectors are willing to chip in. Right now, a lot of money has been basically given by the producers or the producer and the producer countries in the forest protection. It's time for the users and retailers and brand to actually chip in also funding for forest conservation. And we have to be innovative in establishing or finding the right platform to connect the supply chains to the forest protection on the ground or forest conservation on the ground, but probably using some kind of a blended finance. That's also from me, Martin. Okay, well, thanks everybody. It's been quite a long session today, but hopefully worth while and for everybody. And it's moved pretty quickly. We've had a lot of very good speakers and a lot of information. I think just a couple of comments. I think earlier in the day, we talked about the lack of financial institutions who are engaged in this sector and the need to bring them in. We've also heard through a number of people with some very interesting ideas about how to move products into finance into the space. I think one of the key messages is there needs to be a very close cooperation between those who want to invest the money and those who can basically help to facilitate investing that money, particularly governments and the important role people like the GCF play in working together. So I think we need to continue to do that and continue to explore these ideas. So I just thank all of the panelists who have spoken today and thank all the audience very much for your participation and particularly thank the Indonesian-Australian governments for their support of the summit. And I think we're gonna have a small presentation before we conclude. Okay, thanks Marine and also speakers and moderators. As the committee of this session, I would like to thank all of you for participating in this session and we have a big applause for all the speakers and the moderators.