 Welcome. I'm Elizabeth Weingarten. I'm the Associate Director of New America's Global Gender Parity Initiative, which is a project of its bread-winning and caregiving program. So welcome to all of you. Thanks so much for being here and thank you so much to our partners Radio Free Asia. So today they are publishing an e-book called It's Not Okay. You can see these great signs in the background here. And that e-book inspired this event and we're gonna watch a quick video on it in a second. And you should all really download this book as soon as you get out of here because it is fantastic. But this is a conversation that's important to have now for many other reasons. Of course we're approaching International Women's Day in just a few days and it's a particularly big year for women and girls. You I'm sure all know that we're celebrating the 20th anniversary of Hillary Clinton's Beijing speech in 2015 where she said women's rights are human rights of course. And we're also rethinking global policy frameworks that support women and girls as the Millennium Development Goals expire this year. So as we develop this roadmap for where we need to go next in the gender parity movement, it's really more important than ever that we listen to the voices of women who are fighting these battles around the world and we're gonna hear some of those voices today. So the disparities of course that we see are huge in Southeast Asia and it's one of many regions of the world where we're seeing this really backslide in not only rights for women but rights for all people. So we're gonna hear as I said today about some of the battles that women activists are fighting and we're also going to hear about their unique struggles as female leaders in conservative societies where they're pressured to remain at home voiceless. So first we're gonna watch this quick video and then I'm gonna invite my guests up on stage. The role of women in human rights struggles in China and Southeast Asia is absolutely pivotal. Take a look for instance at the women who are leading the Bunkak land struggles in Central Penang. They have faced police and military, they faced blockades, they faced intimidation by thugs, all to essentially assert their rights to a home, fair livelihoods, education and services for their children. Their husbands, fathers sent to the camp of education. The women have to suffer the same ordeals. They all of a sudden become so isolated in so many ways, repressed in so many ways and that's where courage is born because they then have to stand up. Women are not naturally seen in many parts of these societies as natural leaders so they have to work twice as hard in some cases than the men. You know, she didn't expect in her life to become an advocate either for him or for broader issues. She has the courage to stand up to the generals when nobody dared to speak against them. When you have a principled, intelligent and courageous woman rights leader, this is the sort of person that the government of Vietnam fears and wants to lock away. But nowadays they've realized that the world is paying attention and with the support network from outside, they also gain more courage in speaking out. So first just want to make a few introductions here to the very wonderful people that I have sitting beside me. First joined by Zin Mar Ong and many of you I'm sure are familiar with Zin's work but she is a Burmese civil society activist and a former prisoner of conscience in Burma. She was arrested in 1998 for peacefully protesting against Burma's military government and she was sentenced to 28 years in prison. After she was suddenly released in 2009, she founded the Yangon School of Political Science and also Rainfall which is a Yangon-based organization that empowers women in Burma through human rights trainings and awareness building. And in 2012, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton gave her the International Women of Courage Award which is very huge award. And then I'm also joined by Dr. Bin Yan. She is assistant professor of radiology for medical institutions including Johns Hopkins, the hospital of the University of Pennsylvania and the uniformed services of the University of Health Services, Health Sciences, excuse me. She's the president of the International Committee to support the nonviolent movement for human rights in Vietnam and the spokesperson of the Coalition for Human Rights in Asia. She's also the chairman and founding member of the International Protection for Prisoners of Conscience. And also Katrina Antoine is the director and managing editor of Radio Free Asia online and the executive producer of the e-book It's Not Okay. And she has reported all over the world in China, Southeast Asia, India, and Australia. So welcome to all of you. Thanks for being here. So Katrina, I was wondering if you could kick us off by telling us briefly how did the book come about and why now? A year ago, just about this time because, you know, we all have women on the mind around March 8. We were sort of brainstorming thinking what aspect of women's status can we cover? And believe me, there are many, many issues affecting the lives of women in our target country in Southeast Asia and China. And it occurred to us that actually the sources of our stories were very, very often women who deserve to be brought forward. Radio Free Asia's mission mandates that we cover news and information that is censored in authoritarian countries. And our sources very often are the wives, the sisters, the mothers of lawyers or dissidents who are thrown into jail for their ideas. So we thought it was time that we bring light to what happened to these women because they pay a very, very high price. We speak about famous names on Liu Xiaobo, but we don't speak all that much about his wife. And she actually face up to just as much hardship if not as much as he does. So it took a year because most of these women are difficult to contact. In fact, some of them we lost contact since the beginning of the year. Unfortunately, a fair number are either in jail or on house arrest and on reachable via the phone because very often our phone lines are intercepted. But in essence, we wanted to pay tribute to their courage and bring a focus around this time of the year when we think about women to what their plight and what their fight is. Through the course of putting the book together, we became aware that in fact there is a lot we can do from outside to bring them support, to bring them information. There is a lot of actors who have a role to play who could help their struggle. And maybe we're going to talk about it later. And I also wanted to say that anytime, Ben or Zinn, you want to jump in. You are more than welcome to. It's supposed to be a conversation. So as you say, we are thinking around this time of year about women. We're thinking about kind of how far we've come in the past few years, in the past 20 years. So on that note, Zinn, I want to start with you and ask about the changes that you've seen since the military government was dissolved in 2011 in Burma. I think there were a lot of hopes back then that that would lead, the democratic transition would lead to kind of an improvement of life for not only the women of Burma but the people of Burma. But yet today we've heard, I was just reading that the police appear to be stymying a student-led protest against an academic policy while at the same time the Nobel laureate and opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, is meeting with the current president. So there are a lot of things happening. What should we make of all of this? And do you believe that the political change has had any impact on the lives of Burmese citizens? It's a big question, actually. To me, the very beginning of the transition, let's say liberalization, so we did hope a lot whether we, you know, our transition is leading to democratic transition. But the thing is that two year after that, liberalization is over and we are not, you know, sure whether this transition is leading to democracy or another type of regime, not quite sure yet. Since last year, one and a half years ago, we can see the emergence of the art for our nationalist movement that's totally targeted, you know, to violate intentionally or intentionally the women human rights. So that is happening and it might be happening in the future again before maybe especially this year we have the general election at the end of this year. Maybe this out front nationalist and religious will be manipulated in terms of political power, especially targeting to the women. So that is what currently happening. Of course, there are so many issues like land rights issue, the arrest of the journalist, then student protest, you know, human rights edifices are still under threat and not just from the state but also from the community. So that is quite different. In the past, we just only received threats from the states and government. Now, not just only from government, government is quite clear. They don't necessarily need to violate our rights directly, but the emergence of the art for our nationalist group and identity group that, you know, our target is not just only for government but also even in our community we still need to, you know, confront and compromise. Human rights cannot be compromised animal actually. But from different directions the challenges are coming from. And you've now been in the U.S. for a while but you're heading back there to Burma in a couple of days. So could you tell us kind of what's on your agenda when you get back? My agenda is I will continue what I was working with my two organizations, especially with young people and women. So Younger School of Political Science is closely working with political empowerment for new generations. So providing the political science and human rights educations. Then, plus, we also engage with the emergence of the setting issue like art for our nationalist movement, how can we promote a peaceful coexist, a different, you know, diverse community, something like that. Then we engage in aggression monitoring. We have the big issue, you know, constitutional amendment for people movement. So we engage this issue. So there are so many issues that we need to engage. So part of that we have two programs. Education is a long-term program. The second one is the engagement, political educations and political engagement. That is what I'm doing with Younger School of Political Science. On the other hand, along with rainforest women's groups. So based on my own experience, I came from the political background. I was arrested. I saw so many women who already engaged and sacrificed their life for the, you know, our country's changes. But their voices still marginalized. Even women themselves internalize as a follower, supporters, not being able to get into the stage for leadership. So what I found out is that we need to empower and encourage those women who already have their potentials. Of course, we need new generation. So we form the Rainfall Gender Studies Group. Currently, my agenda is women's political empowerment to get more women in politics, not just in parliament, but also each and every level study from folder list. So that is what I'm doing. Another agenda is I'm about to open the Center for Youth in my own township because the young people have been manipulated and misused by the emergence of ultra-nationalist groups because of lack of, you know, job opportunities. It's a very poor economic situation. The young people already have their motivation, but they don't know how, you know, they have no, where do they go? So that's very easy to be manipulated by those groups. So that is where I'm targeting. Okay, you know, Zima has her work cut out for her because only 4% of the parliament in Burma is made up of women, so you have a long way to go. Yeah. So, Ben, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about communism's impact on women because when you talk about kind of proportion of women in leadership positions, something that we've seen that's very interesting is that part of communism's legacy in places like China and Russia, at least for a while, was to elevate women into senior leadership positions. So you have more women in senior positions in companies in particular than in the U.S. in China and Russia, for example. But at the same time, there was just a big story a couple of weeks ago in the New York Times about kind of the backslide of women's rights in China and, you know, the idea that this is kind of changing. So, and of course, you know, Vietnam, where you are active, is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. There's stark income inequality. And this is another big question, but what is your sense of how communism has helped and hurt women in Vietnam and perhaps in China? And what are some of the biggest challenges today? First, I think it is a myth to believe that communism in any way assisted women's role in society. I think truly what it is, it's using women's positions in mid-management positions in order to create the illusion that there is any conception of equality. Really is, if you look at it, the women who are put in these positions are not in any way having the ability nor the power to make final decisions. The Politburo in China or in Vietnam, where the final decisions are made, are comprised mainly of men. And therefore, they're using women in mid-management positions in order to manipulate the system because the women are easier and more docile in order to go along with their corruption, their policies, and therefore it's, I truly believe that there is no true power to women in communism. Do either of you have thoughts? Yeah, in the book, we interview a lady called Tong Yi. She's a former political prisoner from China. She now lives in California and she explains exactly the same thing and she says, you know, just look today at job posting in Chinese newspapers and you will see any job geared towards the women will post the height you're supposed to have, even the looks you're supposed to have, your age, things that are totally appalling in our eyes. So in her, for her analysis of Chinese women, women have been more and more penalized actually in society through the present regime. The interesting thing though is in the movement for the activists in the countries, China, Burma, Vietnam, et cetera, I think the women are realizing that they also have to really be in charge of their own destinies and therefore they have become a lot more vocal. True that it is maybe early on during their struggles, they have a slight advantage in terms of not being bitten up on the street by the police force or the thugs hired by the police because that would be viewed very poorly towards the government and so that may be a slight advantage in the beginning but really truly along the way they found their own strength, they found the unity among the women and they're able to move forward with the cause or you know whether that's labor rights or land rights, religious rights or women rights in general and they found that community strength and bonded together and moved forward and so if anything worth observing this movement of more and more young female activists acting really more, a lot more aggressive and strongly against the government or they're able to speak out more, they're not afraid of the government and they're able to write, communicate and reach out to the international governments more in order to show and to set more lights on their plights and the struggle for human rights and dignity in these countries. What do you have fueled the rise of these kind of young female activists? I think that as the younger generation they have seen what their parents have gone through. For example if they've seen that their parents were put in jail or in my case in particular my father was killed in prison in the camps of re-education so that was one of the reasons why I started this journey but along the way I think what people realize is that as the young generation they now have taken on the burden, the responsibility in order to change their path, in order to change their future. They've seen how their parents were incapacitated by the government in many ways and they don't want to have to suffer the same fate and as young people they realize that they have more power, they have more connection to the internet and they are able to reach out to the international communities a lot more effectively as compared to their parents in the previous generation and therefore from that they have felt the encouragement observing the Arab Spring, observing some potential change in Burma. People in Vietnam and in China are strongly encouraged and I think also the formation of the new middle class in some of these communist countries allow the young people the access that their parents didn't have before and so that's another economic advantage that the young people now have as compared to their parents. Catherine, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about social media and the impact that you saw in your interviews on the lives of some of these young female activists and how that may have played a role as well. Yes, social media actually has changed the struggle for human rights in a big way particularly in Vietnam and Cambodia. I'm not so sure about Burma today but I would be ready to bet that in a year or two once mobile phones start penetrating much more widely it will have an impact and it really helps them a great deal. We feature in the book one Vietnamese lady who very interesting story she was a victim of human trafficking in a sense she was one of these many Vietnamese young girls who go overseas to earn a living and send the money back home to support their family. Well, while she was in Taiwan working in a factory where she could barely keep her salary because her intermediary was holding her passport keeping the money you know she had a road accident. Having a road accident in Taiwan she ended up in the police station and the Taiwanese ironically it's a Taiwanese police who opened her eyes on her situation and said as a worker you have rights and she became educated in Taiwan through her recovery. Flu went back to Vietnam eventually and had by then become an advocate for labor rights in Vietnam. She's a very young lady she's a mother of four kids and she actually uses her cell phone constantly and she will walk into a meeting with some officials policemen or other kind of officials with her mobile phone on video and she will shoot the video of the meeting constantly. You can see on YouTube her little video clips being reposted and reposted and reposted under anonymous names of course but when you bring them together you watch and you think this is an amazing person. She barely had an education she became educated through what happened to her and she now knows that you need to keep a record and we have a lot of situation very well documented because she goes into this confrontations because they end up being very violent what's happening in Vietnam is dreadful is that nowadays the police is not hesitating to beat up women very nastily with pipes you know and there is a video of her on a hospital bed I think she has a broken arm a broken leg bruises all over the place the babies the two little babies are running behind the stretcher saying mama mama she's trying to quiet the babies she has she's talking to the journalist at the same time and they end up in these situations that are absolutely horrifying yet it's on video it's on YouTube we can watch it we can become educated and we have the proof of what's going on in Vietnam today that's that's a lot compared to what was happening 10 years ago it's a lot has that led to a response from the international community or meaningful response it's a very good question I would say one of the responses would be this Evan today I think that most embassies in Vietnam from the US Canada Australia and the European Union I'm quite aware of the situation in Vietnam it to some extent maybe they don't have all the details nor all the information but they do they are informed they do reach out to these activists in term of holding meetings but these are always mostly interfered by the government in some way whether it's a stage accident some roadblocks or quarantine the activists inside their homes so that the meetings wouldn't take place or causing problems after the meetings have taken place by taking these folks up to have working sessions with the security services so and also the point about that having now more and more women being vocalized and very active in all fronts whether again it's labor rights land rights religious rights journalism and so forth on these women are now also being targeted severely just as their male counterparts have been in the past but the women are somehow feeling that this is their right to passage this is what they need to do in order to stand up for their brothers husband sisters and so forth and so they are standing up more and more and so that is truly a new trend at least in Vietnam and I think that China is also having the same impact oh I was going to ask all of you whether you think that having support from particularly the United States in the US government is that something that helps or hinders activists because of course you know in certain parts of the Middle East for example associating yourself with with America or with Western policies absolutely does not help you so is that is it similar or how does that affect the work that that you all do or that you that you hear about it's quite supportive actually for me based on my own my experience in 2012 before I received the awards I didn't able to get my passport I have been denied you know to get passport not just only me but also all ex-political prisoners didn't allow to get passport didn't allow to go outside the country but along with the liberalizations and along with the you know American engagement so as soon as I I received the information about that I was selected for these awards and whether I will go outside you know bomber and receive the awards I'm not quite sure yet just before two or three days I left the country I'm not sure but the I would like to appreciate the effort of the United States Embassy and officer in bomber in Rangoon they continuously rest as we you know you know I thought to get my passport then in last minutes I got my passport but on the other hand as soon as I arrived back bomber the authority you know took back my passport okay so that I then inform the United States yes and then I informed to this embassy and state member okay my passport was you know like withdrawal by the government okay we will keep invite you you know along with the the official invitation by the state departments it's not just part of their effort but also kinds of coincident at the same time the our government would like to get external legitimacy from the outside government you know they didn't even get in the past you know so what they need is external legitimacy from the outside especially Europe and United States it's part of that so I was lucky enough so now I got my passport in hand but on the other hand the student protests you know who the student who engage in protest now they don't get they withdraw they still struggle the plane you know that's why our transition is still need to be questions whether it's denying transitions or just playing the get you know to sustain their power to get you know external legitimacy yes I think that having international especially the US I would say support in many ways whether through political pressure with the government or direct assistance to the activists it's extremely helpful I have to say without a doubt that is what has made the movement a lot stronger and also the activists having no having the comfort of knowing that the US and or the international communities are not abandoning them really gives them even more courage and more comfort in moving forward with their cause you know for their activism I have decided some specific cases of folks who were jailed or are still in prison having this international attention or awareness really helps their case either they're being released before their terms such as in your case and also in addition maybe while they're in jail they are not as severely tortured as they would have been otherwise if they were not and if they were unknown to the rest of the world having said that it's not always true for all the cases the Vietnamese government is specifically would pick and choose which prisoners they would release for any particular reasons and which prisoners they would still keep for example one of the women who were also awarded the award of courage from Secretary Clinton Mrs. Da Pham Thanh she's still in jail she actually was a former policeman who then realized you know how the system was wrong and how the women rights were violated so she wrote a lot of blocks and that's how she was imprisoned she's still in jail even though she received the award you know from the State Department the recognition so not all the cases are released early before their time so they do pick and choose because her voice is particularly powerful to the same comrades meaning the police people in the forces so if she were to be released early then maybe in fact her influence would run deeper and would encourage more and more you know descending voices from within the police force and that's probably one of the reasons why they didn't release her early or haven't released her yet in other instances people are allowed to go abroad and and so having the visa if the international communities interfere and supports for them to get the visas they're able to travel abroad and bring their voices abroad and so that's very helpful as well so in general the answer is yes you know we need a lot more international support we need a lot more US support and also political pressure on the Vietnamese government in order to allow these voices to be heard and not to be beaten or put right or stifled or put in jail and another thing that's very interesting is economic isolation so what the government would do is not only do they imprison the activists but they would also create severe hardship economic hardship to the rest of the families of these folks right right and then so for that that will decrease the amount of support that the act the actual activist has but also the rest of the families will be somehow related and then will be punished or attributed in you know in economic sense yeah that's a tactic that's common throughout all this authoritarian government in China it's terrible there we have two two of the women featured in the book who are wives of people who are imprisoned because of their ideas and they have been ostracized they lost their job they can't find a new one they don't have any means of support they can't even stay in their home it's like there is a process to not only throw somebody in jail so nobody can listen to them anymore but also oppressor family to you you know it's an intimidation tactic and it's very common throughout throughout all the countries did you have something to add or so yeah like for example like the in the past for one of the women who live in in in Mendeley so Harp and her family business is still occupying by the government under the title of you know public property she she actively involved in democracy movement and her family also so now there are so many things economic economic Alicia down by the government for those who actively involved in democracy and human rights movement in Obama also the same the same pattern so you know of course as we talk about these women who are human rights activists it's clear that being a leader in the West is very different than being a leader in Vietnam or in Burma but I'm curious to hear from all of you about whether you think that there are struggles that both women and in the West and women in Southeast Asia face as female leaders so kind of are there are there similar struggles that you see between the two groups two categories like in here in the West like politically much more Democrats right so I think in here many women's face like kinds of social barrier then political barrier right so for Burma like Southeast Asia many of our country are under the authoritarian so not just socially but also politically we still need to you know struggle double button for assigning so quite but we can learn a lot from here so networking you know across the country over you know women organization I just visit to West Coast there are so many strong women organizations in Seattle West Coast it very encouraged encouraging for those women who are working in that you know developing country under the authoritarian regimes it's quite helpful by networking women across the you know globe I think that well let's start with some differences in term of education in the Western world I think that women are more or less very much on the same par as men in term of achieving and having the same opportunities for education I think within the past few years for the first time there are more women attending medical schools than males you know so that is something to show that now there is more equality throughout the Western world to some extent there are still obviously some problems in term of salaries and so forth and then we know that very well but in the in these oppressed countries in these close societies it's the situation is it's very bad for women they do not have the same opportunities they might have up to 12 grades in term of education but other than that beyond that it's very challenging for these women to have the same kind of higher education or the same higher high-skilled jobs as men do secondly in the Asian culture women are still burdened with having to care for the family and be the main person to care for children and so that burden also diminishes the amount of opportunities that they're allowed to achieve or to acquire in addition with the same culture there is still that sense of repression for women in term of what they're allowed to do while they might be able to drive cars or ride bicycles and so not to the same extent as in Saudi Arabia however there's still a lot of limitations in terms of what they're allowed to do in society and what can be quote-unquote considered front-upon or taboo for women to do so from that extent the women are restricted in many sense as far as leadership again we go back to the same issue that we talked about they're not truly in any leadership position per se they may be put into a certain middle management position but they do not make the final decisions and most of the time their suggestions or their proposals are turned down and or looked down and they don't have the same kind of respect from their peer in most of the Asian countries just from the cultural aspect on top of that now you put the oppressive government they do not view women as you know as people who could contribute freely to society but they rather use them as tools in order to control the process because again when we go back to some of the main issue with governance in these oppressed countries corruption is really is one of the critical issues and therefore it is easier to have some women in some positions who then would be quiet and would not report the kind of through and through corruption that we see in government at least these governments in these corrupted governments of these oppressed societies so I think that while there may be some minimal similarities between the western world and the oppressed countries the majority of the time I think the gap is too wide. So that said you know I think a lot of times we seek to or people seek to kind of learn lessons west to east or north to south but are there lessons that western female leaders can learn from perhaps not the formal women leaders that you speak of that don't have a lot of power but are there kind of lessons that we can learn from the informal human rights activists who document their stories. It's hard to speak about lessons but certainly I can tell you that it's enormously humbling for us living in our societies with a level of freedom we have and we don't think about it every day. When you read the stories of these women some of them are extremely isolated and the courage that they display is very humbling for us. You know what they do what they face up to is just amazing just so for example they can get justice one of the women featured is a mother whose son has been kidnapped and most likely sexually molested during the kidnapping. She alone got her son back because the police didn't want to listen to what she had to say but she wanted justice for the fact that her son was sexually molested and she didn't get it now she ended up in jail she was jailed three times and today she is still in jail. Would I do this? Probably I am a mother as well but you have to think about it. These are people who really by themselves in a context that's not our context that's far harsher than we experienced and still have the human courage and dignity to stand up to abuse and that is remarkably humbling and maybe we should just think about how fragile those rights are that would be the lesson I would draw from this. Then do you find that as you've gone across the country and talked to a lot of women you know has the information sharing kind of gone both ways or what are ways that women have said to you I had no idea or things that you've said that other women have appreciated here. They do appreciate what we are doing and struggling in bomber and very much you know interested in how can they help us how can we communicate each other how can we raise the voice of the voiceless in our country like bomber for example like many you know of the land rights activists are women now they are in jail and many of our workers in industrial zones they are just simply asked for the minimum wages for you know 30 dollars per month they don't even get such amount of salary by doing such a horrible work place in industrial zones so they are just simply you know arrested and oppressed by those the you know business men and you know and responsible investment right then plus the authority so majority of those people are women so I can share the what are happening on the ground of those women like that but on the other of course we do have some kind of protection because of we are quite you know getting the media coverage and quite noticed by the international community so what about for those who are voiceless so we still need to have our responsibility to raise and to represent their voice also at the same time so I can share those story with you know the women from here so they will notice somehow they can raise and they can notice this issue by doing you know and by raising their voice so that is what we can do and that is the benefit of the working with other women across the globe Yes I would agree completely that I feel part of what I do it's really bringing the the plight and the voices of the folks inside the country out to the international community because a lot of time is very difficult and very challenging for them to do so so that is really is my job is to be their proxy to be able to bring their plight and their struggles to the rest of the world and to share it with you like we're doing it today in addition also to bring the kind of direct targeted support and assistance that they need they need computers, they need phones they need access to internet, they need training these are the things that we do and we set up and we recruit and we support them with because with these tools they are able to go a lot further in their activism So one of the things that we've seen here in the US is that advocates for women are now really making their arguments in a more creative way so it's not necessarily we should do this because we want to help more women but we should do this because it's a smarter business decision or because policy will be better with more women involved etc so I'm wondering if you find it harder as activists to frame your arguments now in the case of just being about women versus it being about society or do you find that your battles are more or less difficult if you frame them as fighting for women versus the entire population It's still difficult when we talk about women rights and women issue nobody wants to join even the civil society but on the other hand women organizations are very much active to engage in general issue not just only women issue that is what we strategize we are not just doing our women rights we are just also doing with our whole community our whole society so it's very challenging I just talked with one of my bombies college now she is in here to receive the international women of college awards this year so she was quite frustrated because okay women's groups are ready to engage with each and every issue for example like education law, land rights constitution reform women's groups actively even in peace process demonstrations but on the other hand what we are doing about women rights like violence against women something like that just only women very few civil society and very few men but we still need to walk with it to persuade them men advocate for women so very few people so that is what we are challenging even though we are doing not just only for women but also for our society but for us society still hesitate to engage in and spoke out about women issue well I'm not an activist so I'm not part of the group I you know it's funny you mentioned the world creativity earlier and I just wanted to highlight the fact that when we put the book together we wanted to give the profiles of these women and they are all from a very wide background and minority of the women actually fight for women's rights they fight for land rights they fight for labor rights all kind of rights and few of them fight for really the place of women in society but I just wanted to mention that we have illustrated the book in a quite a fabulous way and I can say it without any hesitation because the artists are over there and they don't belong to RFA they belong to the broadcasting board of Governors and it's part of our effort to bring in a certain amount of creativity to the message if I can put it this way I encourage everybody to download the book and read the stories but also look at the illustrations they are quite fabulous we don't often get such colorful posters up here I think that when we get into this journey on fighting for human rights, universal rights and democracy in these countries it's really not just about the women it's about every single citizen in any of these countries and so just along the way you find these women with terrible situations and you do the best you can to help them but it is in the bigger canvas of fighting for democracy and human rights in these countries so it's not specific about the women but the women are becoming more and more of a stronger voice of the more active community of these activists and therefore we're helping them we're assisting them in order to become even better at what they do in these countries and therefore some of the activities we do out here are targeted at helping them however it is about the whole society as you've said So what can we in the US and in the West generally do to be supporting these women more kind of what should be our agenda going forward I think that a couple of things that we have been asking for and some of the things have already been implemented is to have these UN Human Rights Council rapporteurs to go visit these countries more often we've got a few folks from the religious and also from the the handicapped rapporteurs to go visit Vietnam but we need more people to come in to see the situation and to be able to make it even more open to the rest of the world what kind of situations these women are facing secondly we definitely need more training for these women they need more high skill jobs they need more opportunities these open to them and the kind of education that they receive need to be at a higher level than just through high school and therefore I think that by training a new workforce of women in these oppressed societies would actually move the entire society forward and so any framework that we can go to work with these governments in order to pressure them to create more opportunities for these women that would be probably the best thing their labor rights have to be more respected they have to be encouraged to take on classes for example for computer science for engineering more and allow them to hold higher high skill jobs in society and earn higher pay and also to have a better protection for their rights in terms of let's say during labor or having time for time off for their children and so forth and sick leave so these are the things that are not existing in these societies not like what we have here so we need to ask for those things for these women it's worth saying that we also have a long way to go when it comes to paternity leave and paternity leave and sick leave as well and vacation and then I just wanted to emphasize on the government to government advocacy and pressure is still important and on the other hand for the two supports the expertise for the women's human rights groups on the ground of course if the investments are coming to get the gender priorities for in terms of getting jobs for the women vocational trainees like said so I just want to too we like government to government advocacy is still important because the many of authoritarian regime don't want to pay attention to their even own citizens because of power right they just wanted to talk to listen to the powerful government then their own citizens so it's still important government to government advocacy and pressure then help and reach out to the ground who are working with their own citizens not government agency you know just only for the of course they do have policy just only on paper they don't implement yet they don't enforce this law for example like bummer so in 1997 the the bummer's military regime tried to be part of the ASEAN so to be the membership of the ASEAN they still need to have gender gender priorities so like that just simply form the government sponsor women organizations leading by the wives of the generous you know but they didn't do anything now they they already signed CDOR but they don't implement yet so that's why we still need to empower and encourage women's group that counter in balancing the the go and go like the government sponsors the women's organizations I think every country especially like in South East Asians the government already formed their own women organizations but on the other hand these women's groups are still violating women rights so that is what we need to focus on so what are though some of the successes that you think that you all have had because I think that you both have done amazing work and you know a lot of women that have done really substantial work so what have been some of the bright spots of the past few years in terms of victories or steps forward I think in Balmar maybe in 2015 there will be more women participation in parliament so that is what I hope in near future that will be definitely but the thing is I'm quite cautious just only being a woman is not enough right not only quantity my focus is quantity equal representation to quality representation because of past experience recently a women MP proposed anti-interfaith marriage law you know a stream is group target for those women MP very conservative but she proposed this law is quite that's why be careful just being a woman is not enough she must be democratic and she must be that is what I am my consent so quality representation that's a good lesson I'm just curious how are you going about kind of the training and encouragement of more women to get involved in politics what's your strategy my strategy is last year I recruit the women from political parties civil society and activist groups who interested in politics so on the other hand for those women who are already engaged in politics they don't have idea they don't understand some gender so the exchange like that so my priority is that the empowering women understanding in my society whatever we are working or engaging in politics we are very much afraid of talking about power so it's quite controversial and conflict we need to talk about power we like to be part of politics power and politics it's separate so that's why women need to have brave enough to take power so that is what we are encouraging but on the other hand they still need to have skills to be part of politics so that is what I'm doing for 2015 not just only for MP but also for campaigning women for women to raise the as a voter list campaigning and MP so that is what I'm doing of course we need to engage with women in business and bridge politics and business still need to work together I am not so optimistic in term of any successes that we have achieved even within the past decade I think that things are getting worse we still have women who are being trafficked throughout Southeast Asia these women come from all of these countries right in Vietnam they come from Cambodia from Burma and so I don't see that getting any better and women are being trafficked under different forms where they are direct trafficked into the sex labor or they are being trafficked as brides or they are being trafficked through very poorly waged jobs in these other countries and so we would like to see more improvement in that area and we are trying our best to work with the state department in terms of giving their data and so forth but on the ground is the education that we actually need to have with the society we need to educate young women more and unfortunately these women are from the poor rural area who are disadvantaged so they don't have the same kind of access to understand what kind of positions they were being traded into they feel sometimes that going abroad getting married to someone it's a way to help their families or working at some factory jobs let's say in in Riyadh it's helping their family but in turn actually it's actually hurting them and their families more because not only are they themselves getting into this terrible situation but even their own families can also be harassed with the kind of money that either they earn or the government it's after the family and so I think that's one area that I would like to maybe focus a little bit more than what we have done in the past in order to raise even more awareness and also to stop the kind of trafficking that's going globally secondly in term of activism I think the women in the country while they're being more vocal and more courageous to stand up they're also now being targeted by the government specifically because for that reason secondly I think that there is really no end in sight in term of the amount of oppression that let's say the Vietnamese government is putting on their citizens so I'm not so optimistic that there is going to be an improvement let's say in 2015 through some of the international treaties such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership we're focusing a lot more on labor issues in Vietnam and recently we were able to get one labor activist out of jail and she was even able to travel to Europe and here to the United States to again bring her plight for the fight for labor rights inside Vietnam to Congress to State Department so accompanied her to these meetings and translate for her in order to get her voice and her experience out so what I call that a highlight I'm very happy for her that she was able to get out and she's able to raise the awareness to the level that she has this one person who is doing amazing thing a single individual but we like to see more of that and that's just one case and that's just one situation out of thousands and thousands more and so I'm not so optimistic and I'm not seeing where the Trans-Pacific Partnership is stating in term of protecting the rights of women of these laborers inside these oppressed societies because they're not even part of the conversation right so again that's another area that we could focus more in term of you know with international treaties where we can get these human rights issues incorporated within the greater framework of international treaties and I would like to go back to education I think that's actually it's the foundation of improving society in especially in these countries and so how we can improve the institution of education in Vietnam it's a major challenge have we seen any international treaty really be effective in any way on any of these issues that we're talking about well some of the conventions that the Vietnamese government has ratified through the UN for example against torture imprisonment and so forth now that they have ratified it we have more of a tool in order to go to these government officials in order to raise the issues every time there's a case that's being violated so if Vietnam and US has their annual human rights dialogue then we can always bring these cases up and now that they have ratified the convention against torture then we can say wait you sign this treaty and you've agreed to buy by these terms and here are the cases you've violated what do you have to say how would you you know change that and so it's a step by step you know you use rule of law in order to fight against them and you use conventional pathways through political pressures to work with these governments but those are small steps and you don't see the end results for a long time I want to explore something that you talked about a little bit earlier and we've all kind of been talking about which is this backslide of rights and you were saying things have been getting worse over the past decade why do you think that is and again I know this is a big question but as we've seen you know in the past couple of decades on the one hand this blossoming of women's rights groups around the world and you know ostensibly this huge push for more women to be involved and on the one hand you've talked about how women leaders are just kind of in these figurehead positions and they have no power so we have that going on but at the same time you know some international pressure for more women's rights but in the face of that this backslide so why do you think that is if I may speak first I think the global economy is one of the reasons why if we don't have the business communities buy into the issue and the struggle of human rights it's going to be very challenging as global economy and you know crisscrossing of trades between countries that advantage of business and economy takes away the rise of the smaller people and so until the business communities would say I will not trade I will not go and for example Cisco right in China they actually went along with the Chinese government to suppress internet rights and look at what's happened now China is dropping Cisco that's a huge lesson if you work with these governments sooner or later you're not going to gain anything if anything you're just going to lose out you have to stand against this government from day one and say I will not work with you until you let we have these specific terms you know we cannot give up human rights in order to gain business advantage and so this is a huge lesson I believe that globalization is great a lot of countries get you know the doors open to more trading and finance improvement but the younger not the younger the small people lose out and therefore they're not part of the conversation they're not part of the process and until the business community say we're investing these countries but we want to invest in the people we want to be there in the long run we want to help the people improve in addition to improvement in finance and the bottom line of the companies until then we're just going to see the economy of worsening rights and then more and more people have to stand up for themselves including the women in terms of the cause you know you have to also think regionally and the impact of the one tide policy in China is enormous I think China is going to add it was in the next 10 years the equivalent of the Saudi Arabia bring these are new young men coming into the marriage marrying age and it's having a huge impact on this terrible trade of brides and you know it's not the primary purpose of the book but it's an underlying issue and it's only getting worse in fact our next it took us a year to put this book together but our next big project is to come back to the issue of human trafficking we've done it already but things are getting worse in this area and that has a lot of impact you know I absolutely agree with your idea because the country like Burma is a developing country when we struggle on democracy and human rights and then there was another issue okay we need to you know get much more business than human rights democracy business is much more economics especially economics is more important than democracy or not something like that such kinds of idea is quite heated debating in Burma so when we talk about democracy and human rights something like okay I just wanted to bridge this two issue without freedom of expression without rule of law without freedom of association something like that how can we operate business how can we regulate economics so that is why you know what we need to bridge between the economics developments and the the protections and promotions of human rights and democratic principles that should come together if not so because we do have for example like the unresponsive investments destroyed a lot already destroyed in our country our neighboring country likes in name China investment there is no you know responsible for our country and people just simply engage with the regime so the benefits where are benefits just go to the elites cronies and government and military not go to our own citizens so that's why so we need to bridge and come together the responsive investments investments so I'd like to open it up to questions I'm sure you all have some in the back there and just wait until you get the mic you could introduce yourself as well yes my question is what is the role of the Sean and the Rohingya I'm Joel let go I'm retired okay it's the issue has not just emerged recently actually that's already under the age of the military regime so it's not just the identity issue but also our citizenship issue and rule of law issue I think it's six times in terms of Rohingya issue it's quite sensitive and heated issue as a politician especially for the Democrats even when I talk about the title Rohingya is quite controversial I will be definitely attacked in my country actually the you know from the the thing is that we do need to realize that it's a problem that we need to be solved we need to recognize this issue is to be solved in modern way like you know so for the Sean issue still fighting we're still very very confused not just only Sean but also in Kachin state we have civil war fighting against the ethnic armies so the thing is that we urgently need to have a roadmap for national reconciliation leading by the ruling party and the military both sides each and every side need to have the political well to get the better solution for that if not just blaming and talking about certain ethnicity certain religious is not enough to solve the issue the entire national reconciliation process right there so hi my name is Iris Shaw from Taiwan's Democratic Progressive Party thank you for your presentation and our country has been gone through a similar path not so long ago two of the prominent political prisoners were later on become the vice president of Taiwan and one is now the most popular mayor of Taiwan's second largest city and our woman military participation now is 33.6% so my question is there any coalition among the Asian countries that has gone through a similar path I don't know whether certain coalition official coalition or not but I do have some kinds of networking women from Cambodia and like Malaysia we the bomb is political situation a bit open and there are so many women forums international women's forum like that in higher level so we do have but on the other hand like the similar representation in bomber like 3. something like women representation so what we are doing is that now I think the opening door for those women getting into the parliament is political party and things if political party have the gender priorities to be part of the MP something like that we can promote you know the representation of women in parliament not formally but informally we do have networking among Asian women but we still need to strengthen this network hi my name is Kyle Hollick I have a question and it may be fairly Cambodia specific but I think it can extrapolate it to other Southeast Asian countries I used to live in Phnom Penh and I did my thesis on land rights and of course people who are aware of what's going on Phnom Penh you know the Pong Kok Lake protests and there was even a shot of Tet Phan A and Yom Bo Pa on the introductory segment and if you've attended protests in Phnom Penh it's immediately apparent that vast majority of the protestors would be 80-90% excluding monks who show up in support and this is very deliberate sorry this is very deliberate because the women are less likely to be violently abused or tortured comparatively with the men and you know these women have become like heroes especially social media to other younger generation coming up but the thing is the ability they are able to leverage conservative ideals to protect themselves the reason they're less likely to be abused or tortured is because of their second class status in society so I'm wondering if you see that as problematic or going forward like how can that be alleviated because if these women are viewed as equal as men that means that's because they're no longer viewed as like less intelligent they have this traditional role and that opens them up to further physical abuse for example I hope that's clear it's a long question my I'm sorry my inclination would you know I'm not an expert again I just report on this situation number one women it's true the cultural setup is such that there's some hesitation on the part of the police to be harsh towards the women but that's not going to last very long and we've seen it in Cambodia look you have an example of somebody who spent 11 years in jail in a terrible circumstance so women are not spared and you know what I suppose they use what they can use if today the status of women is such that they are a little protected and speak up more well good because if they obtain some attention on their issues and some form of resolution like they have gotten some success in this particular case good people on the ground use whatever they have within their cultural context I don't see any problem with it honestly you have to be very pragmatic I think they need to be more organized they need to have leadership and they have to have more training in terms of even as basic as techniques how to protest and how to protest efficiently and how to demand in the ways that they would get what they demand for and so I think that what we're doing now is we're trying to help with some of the activists in terms of bringing them out of the country and train them on the tools and techniques of rallies of protesting of leadership of organizing and that's what they need a lot of these people are able to protest because one they're women they may not have jobs so the men go to work and the women have a little bit more time to do that and then thirdly they may not be educated as you say so in order to galvanize this kind of force this kind of movement they need to have some form of organizing leadership and some some structure to what they do that's the way to alleviate and improve the situation okay, other questions in the back oh hi I'm Nancy Tom from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace I have a question about Myanmar's upcoming election and how women's rights and human rights are going to fit into the discussion and whether NLD or US DP will have different approach to it and I also have an additional question out of personal interest in terms of the crackdown on freedom of speech in China I was wondering how that would impact feminists and activists on the ground thank you yeah in 2015 election what I think the as I said before the citizen participation especially the women's participation in these elections each and every process studying from the voter educations that is what we can do and other civil society are doing and also in terms of human rights especially I think in that case rather than it's more appropriate what we talk about the electoral laws how the election committee behave and engage with different political parties it's much more I think relevant and then directly talking about human rights and the other women's rights of course maybe human rights relation related violence might be happening before 2015 election especially based on the Afra nationalist movements and religions I think that if some of our women's leader you know the you know ladies they will be much more targeted than others men so that is quite different there's much more challenge ahead of the women's rights activists for 2015 elections in terms of China I mean there is no doubt that the crackdown on the speech right now is a huge impediment and problem we've lost as I mentioned to start with is we've lost contact with some of the women that we could still reach via the phone several months ago we lost contact we just can't even speak to them or their families it's a huge problem if I may it just makes the work of RFA all the more valuable because we are the only one who can continue publishing information and news on this situation because people living inside China just cannot another question once I just wait for the mic Hi Kailin and this is a question for all three panelists although it might be targeted towards Mazumao you had said that you are trying to give a voice to the youth amidst all of these manipulations in the country and while I think it's so admirable I want to know how you're able to do this just because I think culturally speaking in Southeast Asia the youth are dismissed very easily especially young women in general and I say this because I've heard popular sermons by Buddhist monks in which they say even if your mother is wrong your mother is right even though your father is wrong your father is right you're not allowed to question the elders and so you know as a Burmese woman young I would say fairly relatively young you know you hear a lot of things and you just let it go and it's very difficult because you grew up in America and you hear differently and so you know I've always had this question on how do you empower youth when culturally there's something wrong within their country so you know the only word is that we should promote critical thinking just based on my own experience like I have same experience like you for example like my father and mother but I used to question I think need to be rebellious in some extent to ask the questions to you know social norms are really really relevant to human nature so that is what we need to promote human nature plus critical thinking so that's why we need to reform our education system so before we can able to reform this system that is what I am doing providing alternative educations for those young people you know building and forming you know civil society especially based on civil education promoting critical thinking debating skills that doesn't mean we do not respect our elders our senior generation that doesn't mean like that just simply you know question is as a human being the critical thinking and I think rebellious is part of our human nature we need to promote and understand much more in human nature because our human nature has been oppressed under the traditional doctrine so we need to questions and need to rebellious critical thinking alternative education that might be my answer any other questions yes hi I am Vera I am with the International Women's Media Foundation there was just this article published this morning by The Guardian on a filmmaker who just produced a film called India's daughter about the brutal gang rape of the woman in India who was you know her intestines were pulled out and such and such and in the article there was a quote by the defense lawyer of the four young men and he referenced the culture of India and said that we are the best culture in our culture there is no place for a woman and so I am a Malaysian citizen and one of the things that we have seen especially when women are leaders for us we have our ambiguous she is the Bursa is like our electoral reform protest rally leader and she has been protested against like men have gone to her house and basically like done rude things outside her house and you know basically disrespect her and she is a woman of power and so my question is what what is the influence of the systems and sometimes elite men's attitudes towards women in power women who are wanting to gain power for other women and what can be done to counter this in your opinion I would say that it's a very challenging road I think we are still facing the same issue anywhere in the world the same exact issue the similarity part I think that there are probably many approaches that women can take first is to prove your own strength capacity and ability if you have proven track records of what you are capable of doing and you have results to back up of the capabilities then that is something that people can judge you in term of what they can see and so while men may disrespect an electric a female elect person but they cannot disregard her track records let's say she has done she has accomplished something or she has done something that's good for the people for her constituents so I think to use actions in term of counteracting the kind of behavior and deep rooted cultural misconception against women so I think first you have to prove your own worth secondly I think that having more and more awareness and educating people in term of literature, readings journalism literature, media so use any sort of educational tools in order to let the public have a more open-minded awareness of what the rest of the world is doing not just what Vietnam is doing not just what Malaysia or Burma is doing but what's the role of women for the rest of the world and what other cultures view women whether it's religious bias or cultural bias so I think having that kind of interaction and exposure to global awareness would help with countries where it's still a closed society or even a press society so I think media education has a huge role in opening the public awareness and gaining public support will eventually bridge that gap so we're not there yet even here in this country but in other countries by opening that door maybe it will decrease the amount of misconception and so I think a lot of it stems from the lack of education not just like going to school education but the kind of knowledge and awareness that people have about what the role of women and how women can contribute to society I think that in a lot of countries where it's still the majority of the people in the royal are not well educated, not well read it's easier to spread the kind of misconception in order to to abuse women so I think those are at least two approaches first back to your question about young people it's a similar situation the young people are quite capable to prove to the elders of what their capabilities are and so while they may be abused by the elders in term of saying well I'm older and so you don't really know since I have a lot more experience but if you prove that you're capable of doing something then the elders will have to have another look for example if you're very fast out of computers and they're not then immediately you're going to gain their trust because then they'll do you and ask you to do things that they're not able to do so step by step rather than make it a struggle between the youth and the older really more in term of how to incorporate between the two and so for my particular generation we're a bridge generation and that's what I view myself as how to bridge between my parents and the younger generation who maybe a little to my children but you know in between because I'm able to speak both languages and I'm able to understand the problems and the issues and the philosophy of the elders and yet I live here so I've been raised here so I understand exactly what the young people like you are going through and it's the bridging between the two generations in order to help to emphasize the experience and also to elevate the kind of capabilities of the young and bring together in order to make the community a better place so I think that is probably the best approach instead of making it like this you really kind of bring people together and say okay so the elder people have the experience you will show us the pitfalls and certain things and give us advice but we young people we are capable of doing this and we're going to move forward and communities or societies not going to improve if the young people are not allowed to have the space and their the ability to basically bring society along with them and so I think the older people realize that it's just a matter of pride and if you approach them in a different manner it's probably going to make it easier. I do agree and really support your thoughts it's quite you know even in minimal approach it's quite useful practically I just wanted to appreciate you I just on that positive note thank you all so much for being here thank you all for being here as well and you really have no excuse not to go and download the book because it is free so if you all do that thank you