 Amen, right? Okay. Thank you for coming to this presentation on giving, give your church synagogue or mox site a divine work, a divine makeover with WordPress. And of course I'm waking up myself, so pardon me. I'd like to thank my friend, my new friend here, Melanie Adcock, who told me she's a church lady and she also works on a lot of church websites. So I'm going to be calling on a little bit of her expertise as well during this presentation. And as well I want us to come to church, to synagogue, to mosque, to vent it out. If you're, if you're, if this is a niche that you're interested in, or if you have a beef with your religious organization's website, definitely I don't want you to hold back or I don't want you to base into definitely participate and tell us about some of the problems and the issues that you're dealing with so we can make this a community discussion as well so we can talk about some of those solutions not only that I've found, Melanie have found, but also maybe some of you guys have found but also have come up with, you have a problem that needs to be solved. And that's something that maybe we can just jot down we have this particular problem with our site and we may not have the solution right now but we can come up with it a little bit later. So with that I'm going to turn hand over the mic to Melanie for a moment. The podium. So who do we have, if I can get just a little bit of an understanding of who do we have in the audience right now. Do we have, how many people are working on church sites or are interested in working on church sites, okay, let's show our hand. One about synagogue sites, mosque sites, curiosity seekers, okay, okay, okay, very good. All right, just to let you know a little bit about who I am, by day I'm a digital and community manager at Georgia Public Broadcasting that just essentially means that I update content on their website as well as their social media voice but by my free time I'm the content manager for Our Lady of Lords's website. And I'm a paid contractor to do that. It's not a lot of money because as you well know a lot of religious organizations don't have a lot of money but it was something that over the years I was able to convince them to do. Just a little bit about Our Lady of Lords, is this historically African American Catholic Church. It's known for that very much so for being the mother church for African Americans in Atlanta. It's very well known for being a social justice church so where there is a protest and an injustice in the world you will see Our Lady of Lords members out there with a sign on your side. It's also known for a very unique liturgy. It is not traditional Catholic if you're a traditional Catholic and you go and if you're not and you're expecting very stayed boring you will have a heart attack because it is not that kind of liturgy. It's very upbeat gospel music contemporary music. The service lasts longer than a typical Catholic mass which is typically 45 minutes to an hour. Lords you'll be there prepared to be there for an hour and a half. And we have a fairly, I'll call him new because he's been there for five years and that's kind of still new in the Catholic universe for pastors. We have a new pastor who's from the Dominican order and he's really embraced Atlanta and the Lord's style and making sure that it continues the legacy as well as embracing what's going on in the future. So what some of the challenges and I'd also like to turn this over to the crowd a little bit as well. These are the challenges that we've had with updating the site that a, we want to reflect its history. We want to serve the home crowd but we also want to welcome the new people because there are a lot of new members and a lot of visitors that come by. It's grown exponentially. So the challenge of serving that and expressing that on the website that's one of the challenges of course. Of course, number one, does this sound familiar? Getting help from the congregation as a challenge to update your site, right? Yeah, everyone usually has an opinion. Everyone on a website, any website they have an opinion but everyone of course has an opinion on how a church or religious organization site that you look like and it's typically wrong. One time someone asked me if we could put shout outs to groups, can we do a birthday shout out on the website each month? And I was like, no, we cannot do a birthday shout out on the website each month. Or how about this one? Can we get something to flash across the screen that tells you what event is going on? No, we cannot do that. And then there's usually the bad photos, you know, the photos of either it's out of focus or someone has taken it with their iPhone and it just does not translate very well online. So before I move on, does anyone want to add to that hit list of challenges, Melanie? Use your mic. Submitting vertical pictures for horizontal slider. Yeah. And the only way to convince them is to chop their head off and send it back to them. Because some people cannot grasp that concept. Most people can't grasp that concept. Probably 90% of my clients will send me vertical pictures for horizontal slider. And it's not even churches. And you'll say, well, you know, I really can't put this in a horizontal picture, you know, frame. You try to use small words as you can possibly do and not be any technical. And one, I just literally had to chop the person's chin and forehead off and send it back to them before they got the concept. So there you have it right there, a pointer. So whenever they send you really bad photos, give them a rendition of what it would look like and send it back to them as a way to nip that in the bud. Okay, anyone else before we move on, wanna chime in, don't be shy? Okay. All right, so what do religious websites typically look like? So I kind of did a little search and oh, we have someone in the back? Okay, that's a good one. And her question was how do you get the church members to rally behind you so that you can get to the goal of building a site that is professional and really reflects the community? And we're gonna talk about that because I got into that, I went through that process. Okay, so moving on, what do church sites typically look like? Well, I went through some of the examples, kind of did a search and saw and this kind of reflects what they look like. Here's one, this turns out to be the church home of one of my developers at work because we were talking about this and he's a WordPress aficionado and he was like, oh, let me just look at my church and he looked into his site and he was like, oh my God. And I said, well, you should be ashamed of yourself, you're a developer, you can go there, you need to help them out. But honestly, this is typically what this looks like. This is probably was made with a website builder. It's of course text heavy because it's probably made with the secretary did it, an administrative assistant, a volunteer, someone's son, who knows. Flash, you can't see it now, but there's flash, that photo across the top is flash. And it probably has not been updated since 2008 and actually that is true because I looked at the bottom, the design has not been updated since 2008. So there's that. Here's a moth site for the local headquarters of the nation of Islam, the Mohammed moth site. They look like they're trying a little bit more. It looks like they probably pulled from an old template, but you can see everything's like a flyer, looks like it put up this PDF. That's another thing that you get. Here's a PDF, put that online, right? So they put that front and center on the site and of course, you can barely read what's on the sidebar on the left. Right, and yeah, you can barely read what's on the sidebar on the left, that's hard. And then here's something that we were talking about with the images. It looks like this congregation is a synagogue, congregation or vishalam, I hope I pronounced that right. But they look like they're trying, but with the photos, they're not quite there yet. So that you have that group photo from very, very far away. Yeah, I know this theme. This is the optimal theme. Go ahead. Yeah, this is the optimal theme, which I actually used for a website a few years ago, but the problem is their picture, their slider picture isn't full width. It was too small for the slider. Exactly. But it's nice because it has this place for the calendar on the left-hand side. It's actually a left-hand sidebar. Exactly. So I mean, they're trying. They're trying to get there, but they still need to go to a web school to learn a little bit about taking the proper photos for the slider. So why did we talk a little bit, as I was going through this, why do these sites look like that, obviously, because they don't have the money to invest in a professional site. They have a social web designer. They're using a whole template. They don't have a real person to who knows what they're doing, so to speak, to make the site look good as well as maintain it properly. So we started, the young lady in the back talked about, well, how do you get there to that uncluttered design, clean look that's more modern? How do you get people to buy into using WordPress, right? Well, first of all, you wanna invest in the right team. Maybe that person is you. Maybe that person to take the initiative is you to say, hey, I've been to these WordCamp conferences. I have some expertise in doing websites. Put together a proposal and bring it to the people who are in power at your religious organizations, typically like a church council, the board, the pastor, of course, that's probably the rabbi, the iman, have a meeting with them and give them a proposal of what you think the possibilities for your site can be, what it will look like, how it can service the people, also how you can provide them with analytics to show them, well, these are the pages that would be helpful to members, so I can show you how many people will get to these particular pages if I do it and I can show you how to do it right. The other thing is you wanna show them examples and this helped as well, show them examples of other organizations. When they see that, oh, across town, Peachtree-Peterian site looks like blah, blah, blah, or the Temple site looks like blah, blah, blah, that may also be an incentive for them to think differently because they're seeing that other, the competition, so to speak, looks so much more professional and this is what they have. So, you wanna get them into the 21st century, other churches are doing it, we can do it too, right? Ms. Mary, can I add something here? I'm actually a paid employee of nine churches and it's basically my salary for the month so I don't have to worry and I make about $5,000 a month just from those nine churches and the fee can be as little as $150 a month all the way up to $2,500 a month depending on the church. Now, getting started in churches, they may not have a lot of money or you start with your own church and you may even just do it for free, especially if it's like one of those. You just want to put a good effort for it but the thing with churches, it's like six degrees of Kevin Bacon. Okay, you do one great website, you will get the rest and that's how I got it. I've never had a church contact me because of my website. I put my credit on the bottom of a website that I have built and they call me and I've done about 15 websites but you have to present it in a balance of something that you know that they can afford so if it's a small church, obviously I'm not gonna charge them $3,000 for a small website but if it's a big church, I'm going to price it accordingly and my expertise comes from the balance of that front page has to be welcoming and give all the information for the people that are church shopping and easy for the current members to find what they're looking for and a lot of that has to do with the question and the type of church you have to get to know the church so you know what to build but she's right, most churches don't have the budget until you get farther up where that right now the bigger churches, they used to have the IT people, they used to have the graphic designers and the web people. I used to work for two different churches but I got laid off when the economy tanked. Now they're realizing that they can outsource all this, they can outsource the IT, they can outsource the website so there is money to be made out there, I mean I'm making it, yeah. Sure. Okay, here's what you do, if it's a committee driven church and you don't have the churches where the pastor and the staff lead the church and then you have the churches that are committee driven, find one person on staff, go to the staff meeting, have one person on staff be that point person. All the content has to flow from that one point person so what I did for my church, it's a small church, it's probably just under 1,000 members that actually attend. It's a Southern Baptist church so they have thousands on the roll. So, and if you're a Southern Baptist you understand that joke. But what we did is we had all the different committees, it's a committee driven church. I put a gravity forum on the website for all printed material for the e-newsletter which I also took over and the website, the only submissions I will take are from that forum and it goes to the point person and a copy comes to me, that's mostly just for a heads up but it will not go on the website until it's proved by the pastor that's in charge. And when he forwards it to me, I will put it up. That kind of keeps out the people who want to do the birthday parties and things like that. Okay, well we'll take one more and we'll move on. Sure, go ahead. Basic, just contract pricing and I get to know my churches, that's why some of them, the only thing I do for them are events and podcasts. I update those. They're not gonna pay as much as the ones, I have churches like you say, getting content. You know, you can beat them over a head with a stick and they won't give you anything. And then you have the people that want to send you absolutely everything. They're priced accordingly and this is what happened when I had a client say, why do we have to wait for you? Cause I do a lot of work to put it up. And by wait means more than 10 minutes. Exactly. I said, because this church pays me more. So if their stuff comes in, it always goes in ahead of yours in line. So they pay me more than the first church now because they always want to be at the front of the line. Now they are the ones I probably on their site five times a day every day. It's a huge site in a huge church in Augusta, Georgia. And I got that because I used to work with the pastor, the business pastor when I was at another church who I met when I was at another church. So it just keeps going from there. Sorry. No worries, no worries. We'll definitely have more time for Q and A hopefully at the end, but she touched upon something that is definitely true for religious organization sites that you have to create editorial guidelines. And that is something that I did too. Create an editorial style guide and guidelines and tell people this is what I will accept and this is what I will not accept. It was kind of a funny but true example with someone saying, can we do birthday shout outs? But then someone else sent me a very like three page description of what their particular ministry was. I said, I can't accept this. You can only give me about two paragraphs. And then the other thing with the editorial guidelines when I sent back my feedback that this was too long, you can only give me two paragraphs. In the guidelines, I gave an example. So I gave an example from a group that already created their two paragraphs for their ministry and provided a proper image. And I said, this is the kind of image you need to give me. These are the type of paragraphs and that's it. And that particular group did submit something. And the next group, I'm still waiting on them. It's been two years that they've contacted me. That they wanted to update their site and they haven't. But you have to just like with secular sites, you do have to lay down the law that these are the guidelines that we have. Otherwise, the site will turn out into the wild, wild west of anything and look like those other sites that we were looking at and where it was too many PDFs, bad images, flash and stuff, we don't want that. When you want something that's professional that also reflects the community. So moving on, just what are some of the common elements of religious sites? Typically, of course, the service times, how to get there, the address, phone numbers, bulletins are a big thing. I know that's a big thing with us that if a bulletin is not up by Monday, there's all hell to pay, because people have to download their bulletins. But also another, events of course are very important so people know what's going on and that's something where that's been a challenge for us and what the solution I found. I can now meet that challenge. But also how to give, people do that a lot. People do that online, not only with their laptop but with their phone. So you want to provide them with opportunities and widgets and plugins that they can do that safely online to make it easy for them. And also sermons, getting the sermons or the message online, either through a podcast or video, that's very convenient to people. And another very big thing of course is live streaming and live streaming the service for people who of course don't feel like going to service that day or people who are safe or traveling, who want to stay connected. So that's another content item to consider to put on your site. So this is what our old template looked like. This is circa 2012 and we just retired it in 2000, just this month, 2015. I had a designer who volunteered, he was a member of the church, he was a designer developer who volunteered to create the new template for the site back in 2012. And as you can see, we got up to date with times, making sure we had a logo. That's another thing to consider when you're putting up and redesign a site that usually with redesigns, it always starts with the logo, right? Cause everything else takes its cue from that, from the logo and the colors. So to make sure you get together with the person who is doing the stationery and the print logos for your organization and make sure they create a web version. So we made sure we did that. As you see, there's logo, there's the slider and then we had two columns in the middle for announcements and then to display the information, static information about service times and downloading bulletins and the readings for the month. But eventually this outlived its use cause the style was outdated. And we definitely needed to add a lot more content there and make it more user friendly. So I started going shopping cause the person who was helping me, he's a developer, he didn't have time to redesign something. He could help on the back end. But I also just wanted to find something easy that I can plug and play and just keep it moving. So what I discovered and probably Melanie at the end of this, when we take more Q and A, could kind of back you up on that, that there's not a lot of prefab church themes out there, especially not free and she's shaking her head about new, there's not, it's very true. But what I did find in terms of something that's free is this church theme that works with mega themes. It's a child theme that works with omega themes. And it's a basic blog type site. What it gives you is that big header image that you can plug in and it looks pretty clean. And you can add in plugins like a Google events calendar plugin, you can use that as your events calendar to populate events on the site. There are other plugins that I can research and also I'm gonna put this presentation on my personal site so you can download it and I'm gonna add some more information to it. But I'll add some information on plugins that you can add to this if you don't have the budget and you wanna try this out and you need something for events and for podcasting and for donations like maybe taking PayPal. Then the next one I looked at and I like this one. I felt for our community it was too modern for us but I thought it was nice. It's called Evangelist and it's with Theme Views is the company that created it. And what I liked a lot about it is with the slider there's an events calendar and events seems to be a very big thing for organizations that that's mainly what they're going to decide to see what in the world is going on. So it's right front and center on the side of the slider that you can see that. The other things that they offer are that the design is responsive and that's a very big thing now to make sure that your design is responsive because people are looking at sites on their phone a lot and maybe on their way maybe they're coming to the church for the first time. Maybe they've been going for the longest time they forgot how to get there, right? So they're looking on their phone for directions and to see what's going on. So you wanna make it as easy as possible to check it out on their phone. So this is a really good design for that as well. Let's see what else. This is the design that we did settle on. It's called Exodus and it's by a group called Church Themes and they make Church Themes. They only have two right now. They have Exodus and I'm forgetting the name of, I'm sorry, are you, look, no, exactly no. She's saying Leviticus, right? I'm forgetting the name of the other one. It starts with an R. You might know what it is. China, yeah, China, I'll remember it later. I liked Exodus because I felt it had a lot of good white space, a good slider at the top. It had a really good events calendar. And the other thing that I liked about it a lot is that it has a lot of widgets that make it very easy for you to add things, excuse me, add things to your pages that will show up throughout the site. So you can add, for example, your events calendar, put it on the homepage but it will also, you can set it up so it can appear on the sidebar. You can also set up a locations page that will appear on the homepage and other places so people can go there and find a map and navigate, plug in how to get to your organizations, to your church or synagogue or mosque to the location itself. It also has podcasting capability as well as one of the other features that people like is to know who the staff is, right? So a lot of times what you see now, which is regular in the secular world, is you go to a site and you see a person's happy-looking face and a little description about, you know, a pastor so-and-so used to play football, but now, you know, he's playing football for the Lord. You know, your little description or whatever about who the pastor is. I mean, that's pretty typical on secular sites but now it's becoming more prominent on religious organization sites and that's what we're encouraging and they have a particular widget that allows you to do that. So it just makes your life a lot easier and takes away the heavy lifting. Let's see. Also, they provide you with stock photography and a list of stock photography which for us, I know for us that's gonna fill in the gap for now of making the site look fresh but it's one of the solutions that you can use to keep your site looking fresh, to use stock photography instead of the crazy, you know, blurry or two vertical looking shots that people create that you really can't use. So this is our version. I'm gonna see if I can take you to the live site and I just wanna say this. Let's see who we get there. When I was in the process of putting this presentation together, our server for our hosting company crashed. So for a good month, we had our old site up. Our site from January was up for like the month of March while our server, our hosting company figured out how to fix their server. So I actually had to rebuild the site to a certain extent in this template in like a week's time. So it's not exactly 100% to where I want it to be but I want to show you what we have so far. Let me see if I can, okay. So as you can see, it has this, the big slider where we can put in very professional looking images. We'll be taking photos of the church soon to populate this and it gives you multiple options to put in multiple slider images. But the other thing that I like is that it also gives you the option to put in a video and the video plays in the slider as opposed to taking you to other places and it's compatible with YouTube. So that makes things immensely easy because YouTube is free, right? The other thing is you see right here is our mass times and this is the widget that I was telling you about that you can create your individual piece of content and then it can populate in other places. So the mass times appear here and I can make them appear at other places. And then over here, this is something that I got as soon as this was launched, excuse me, as soon as this was launched a couple of weeks ago I got some emails from the congregation that they loved the middle widget area where you can put in three images that reflect content that you want to drive people to. And so having right front and center to download bulletins, people went nuts. They were, oh my God, I can find a bulletin. Okay. Also having the monthly, I mean, it was huge. That's what they love the site for, apparently, the bulletins and then, hold on. And then just to have the monthly readings and then to give online was a big thing to make sure that front and center that was there. Now in this middle space, I had planned to put in the events calendar and I just didn't have time during this presentation. But as you'll see, when you come back, you'll see the real finished complete version of this. Because as I said, I was working on the duress of the hosting site crashing. So, but that's some of the features here. But as I mentioned, you can also put in the sermons. You can populate it with the people biographies. You can add a lot of videos. So with this theme, again, the sky is the limit and if you have a bit of money to spend, I'd recommend it. And there's good support for it as well. The yelling lady over there had a question. Tomorrow's gonna be posted for today and that's a good point. And with bulletins, I mean, they tend, you don't wanna break the wheel or have people go nuts, because they don't change lots on. I don't wanna have like an electronic and I don't wanna make my life miserable too because I do have a full-time job. So with bulletins, it's a PDF and that's what people want. That's what they're looking for. So we simply post the PDF. Now, that said, with your congregation, if you have people who are a lot younger, you might find a solution. That's something that you wanna throw out as a question to us to find a solution of more of an electronic bulletin. That's something definitely that I would recommend. And before I turn it over to more Q&A and let Melanie speak, I just wanna show you this slide of where you can get stock photography. That the church themes that I'm using that they provided a list of where you can get stock photography that's both free and for purchase. I know people are writing some of this down. And then I'll come back to this slide in a second. And then just, I'm going to post this, give me about a day to post this presentation online but I'm gonna post it on my site. So it'll be there so you can download it. I'm gonna also include additional things that you can use and resources that you can go to use to help you. So I'm gonna turn it over for Q&A and to the wonderful Melanie because it looks like she has some additional things to offer. She was telling me some things about the plugins you were telling me about for podcasts and prayer requests. So I'd love you to mention that. I'm gonna go over some of the most used stuff that I use on all my church sites. Now for podcasting, your basic podcast, I have tried like all the free ones out there. Probably the best one is PowerPress. Unlike her, I don't like themes that have all the stuff built in because in two years when she wants to change this thing, it's all part of the theme. So I like to do things with plugins. There's a few more church websites. I build in Genesis, Genesis Framework. So Outreach is a great church ministry theme. Also, WebSavvy Marketing out of Detroit has Genesis themes. They have one called Patricia and one called Christian that she names all of her themes after relatives. And Christian is a minister in her family so she named the church theme after him. And those are some, I've actually only ever used Patricia and I'm using it right now. I'm building a custom theme based on that for a church here in Atlanta. But I actually took the top part of Patricia and the middle part of Christian because that's what they told me. They want something like this and something like this and so I just used them and put the two together. But some of the plugins I use, for PowerPress is probably the best one by Blueberry, B-L-U-B-E-R-R-Y, Blueberry. It's just a custom post type. It does audio. If you're not storing your church's audio on Amazon S3, do that because if you have to back up your website, don't do not upload your sermons in the media browser because it makes for a huge website back up. One of the ones, I've tried a sermon browser, didn't like it. It was too restrictive on how you could, the information was put in. There's a new one out. Eric Murrell from Long Hollow Church actually built three custom plugins for his church. Now it took him 18 months to build this website. It's awesome. If you just Google Long Hollow Church, you'll find it. Beautiful website, but he built three custom plugins and one of them is Series Engine. And it allows you to put like sermon artwork and in one window you can do the YouTube or Vimeo video, the audio and all your notes and information. It could be bulletins, it could be group studies, anything in one window and it has a widget for the front page and it has a short code builder. For instance, my church in Augusta, they have a Wednesday service, a Sunday service. They record the student minister and the college minister, the men's breakfast and the women's events. But I can build custom things for each one of those areas just with his short code generator. Another one of his plugins that he built was Prayer Engine. Prayer Engine allows you to put prayer requests on your website, but it's interactive for your users. They can submit the prayer request. It becomes on there, you can make it public or private and when somebody can click the I prayed for this button, the person that submits it gets an email that says I prayed for you. Another one, a lot of churches are doing small group studies in homes. They're not doing the, their churches are in like commercial properties so they really don't have like Sunday school at church. They're having their small groups. He has groups engine where you can actually look up what the nearest small group to your house is and go there. I'm actually using it for a church who has all their small groups on campus, but it's a great way to list and it becomes a searchable database. They're looking for a topic on women, that's only women, they can do that and it will list only the women's studies. So it works out great for the big churches. Event calendars, how does your church do event? Do they post the whole, everything that's going on every waking moment at the church? You want a calendar that looks like a calendar or are they event driven church and you only want the major events? We call the A, B and C events that show. All the one event calendar is great if your church uses Google Calendar. If you have a church secretary keeping the calendar and a Google Calendar, you can bring it in there, the beauty of it is you can make it not look like the Google Calendar. It's not gonna be blue, you can actually style the color and it automatically updates. When they update the Google Calendar, it updates the church website, so that's a no-brainer. Event, for an event driven church, events manager, it's very customizable, it's a little codey for people who wanna really, really customize how it looks. I use that one a lot. It's called events manager and then the events calendar is a big one. It's a free one that has paid, is also a good one. Of course, gravity forms, I use a lot for form submissions. Short codes ultimate. If you've not heard of short codes ultimate, basically it's the kitchen sink of stuff you can put in your website. The wordy people, they automatically get stuff in an accordion because I don't want the page to be super long. So class descriptions. And a lot of these you can combine together, like event manager and short codes ultimate, I can put all the details of an event in an accordion so the calendar page looks nice and clean because I may know that way. Accordion where you have collapsible content where just the title shows with the little thing and it comes down or a spoiler. I don't want all the words showing on the event calendar list. I just want the title, the date, the time and view details. So I put all the event details in a collapsible accordion. Online sermon notes. I have one church that builds an interactive PDF that it's already up for today and people can download and fill it out. But that free Bible app, the one that lists the little brown with the holy Bible that everybody downloads, if you go to their website they have a free online note builder that people can just search from inside the app on your phone, fill out the sermon notes for that you can just put the topic headings and the scriptures and it will link to the Bible verses in that app and they can fill out the notes and email them to themselves after the service. So that's a great one and that's free. And it's just the U-verse, that's the name of it, U-verse Bible app. They have a whole website built around being able to do that and it's free. Giving, it all depends on what their content management system is. I have some churches that use ACS and basically ACS has their own module and I just link to that. I have some churches that use PayPal, the smaller churches that just use PayPal. I have some churches that use, well it's active networks now, it used to be Fellowship One or Server Shoe. They've kind of merged into active networks that use that and you just link to their payment form. There's lots of different ways. I just built the giving form in gravity forums and hooked it to PayPal. And I can actually select, I do conditional logic so they can give to a particular ministry or give to tithes and offerings and things like that. But those are my tips. I have, for those that are doing it, I can give you my card because I'll be happy to answer questions on the best way to do stuff for church websites since I've been doing it for like eons. Thanks. Thank you. And as I mentioned, I'm going to also, after this is over, I'm going to interview her and record her saying all this stuff so I can add it to my site so you can also have it as well in writing and after you also barrage her with your questions after this. Are there any more questions or any more, not just questions, comments? Or again, if you want to go to church and you want to vent a little bit about your situation, feel free. I'll turn it over to you. I wanted to hear a little bit more where you were talking about the editorial style guide for churches. I don't know, is it possible to borrow yours or is there some source that we can maybe get some information or the start of a template that we could use? Absolutely. I can definitely send you mine. What I drew from initially was because I come from the journalism media field, I was initially taking some of my cues from the associated press style guide, if you can imagine that. Really looking at how they titled their dates and their times for announcements and in press releases. So I took that and then I took just simple writing for the web principles of making sure if you have to have a very lengthy bit of text, four or five paragraphs of text on a page that you make sure you break it up with subheads that are highlighted so that people know what each sections of the paragraphs are and they can decide whether they wanna read it or not. Then in terms of creating the guide, I broke down what each pieces of content needed to look like and then what the guidelines for writing that content should be. So for example, calendar announcements. I said that the calendar announcement had to have a particular descriptive title and then a date and a time and then up to two sentence description of what it was about. With ministries, they had up to two paragraph description of what their ministry is about. They can give me, and I told them in the guidelines, it had to be a description of what their ministry is about, who, what, where, when, why. They had to include their telephone number and the contact name of a person to reach out to. And in some instances where it was appropriate that they could provide an evergreen PDF flyer that I can include, but if it's something that's going to die in a couple of months, I'm not going to use it. So that's essentially what you do. You sit down and you decide what kind of content is going to be featured on this site and then come up with rules of the road for each one of them. And again, I can send you mine, but I also encourage you to look at other church sites as well. And I'm, again, I'm going to make sure I include as many resources on my website after this camp is over so you can go on and take a look and bookmark and go back. But looking at other sites to see what they've done and also to see the bad stuff that they've done. So, okay, I'm not going to do it like that. That's what'll help. Okay, and one more quick question. You mentioned that your congregation really love the bulletin. And so I'm wondering, have you done or have you done like a little survey or something of the congregation of those different elements which is the most important to them? That's a great question, because we have. We've done it two times and we learned that the bulletin was like, the bulletin was the most important and then mass times was important for them to know that. What I'm finding, because with this theme, it allows for comments, I'm finding this is something new and we'll see if this is something that resonates with people. We're finding that people are interacting with us. So people are leaving comments now asking about things, asking about mass times, asking about how to become a member for a Catholic church. We're not in the evangelization business. So when a lot of times people say become a member, it's like, I think you have to call the office. So that's something now that we have to, or rather I have to really break down online and baby steps. Well, how do you become a member of Our Lady of Lord's Parish? If you're Catholic, what do you do? If you're not Catholic, what do you do? If you just wanna pass through, what do you do? What's the process? So yeah, to her point, doing a survey as well, cause we've done that before and a couple of times doing a survey of your organization of what they would like to see on the site makes a whole lot of good sense. And I think it's my time up. I'm not sure somebody waving at me. I mean, we could keep going if you'd like. Go ahead. So I have found myself working at my church and doing our communications, our electronic newsletter, a very old fashioned Methodist church. So the fact that we just moved to e-newsletter like whoa, so our website looks terrible. And I'm learning from the School of Hard Knocks. Do you have any resources or books or websites that help someone who I don't have a background in web design? I'm learning WordPress. A good thing to look at is W3Schools. It was what I've always looked at and she's gonna hand you her car. I'm just kidding, you're improving. Yeah, W3Schools is what I swear by because that's definitely a help in terms of giving you the basics of coding and just understanding coding is the first step of it all. I think the name of the site is, I'm gonna have to give you my information to get back to you with it, but it's a really good design site. I think it's called Smash Something, but I have a bookmark, but it's a really good design site that takes you through the process of what's good design and what's not. And then also does a lot of posts on the top 10 like WordPress, really good WordPress sites that you can use. And then simply if you go to the wordpress.work site since you're new and maybe just working with a theme would help you, just go to wordpress.org and look at the popular themes and download them and just play around with them and see what resonates with you. I think that the most important thing I recommend to people when you do a site is not to build your site on a theme to actually plan the site out in detail first. Get your site map, get the content that you want to put into your site, the images, write down what you're going to call the menus, get that all down first on a separate document. So then that way once you're working within a theme you're simply plugging and playing and rearranging and it's not so overwhelming. Thank you, sure. I could do a whole hour talk on how to name your buttons. Okay, I think my time is up. I thank you very much. I want to just give Melanie a hand here for jumping in there. And I'm here if you have any more questions, definitely come up to me or just contact me through my site or phone number. Thank you.