 Pa nda'n 23.06 and on the huddle this evening Cameron Slater, whale oil is with us, hello Cam, good evening Larry. And we have Josie Bagani hello Josie. Hi Larry. Now Josie ben all over the place over the weekend haven't you eh? And I took particular note of what you said about what should happen with the Labor Party but we'll come to that in a little while. It was a stunning national win on Saturday night Josie. Now for the recriminations and I feel that there is going to be some blood on the floor but we'll talk about that in a moment. lla wedi pam i tatua meziumadu? Ngāni lla a kon transportwai, a kugiaeni, k chargeria� modify bete maigiama poba aeti meia wne dim kagaama eiko ch free te לחotuau na paraatik äta nama Kitatatatatatatata yn gafdis ag ragingi zempataio aquximbinkini, nomba saipotsa national. 48% was extraordinary. Cam, what's your take on what happened, what played out on Saturday evening? Well, what happened is that the polls that the left wing had declared were rogue, were wrong, were missing the people on mobiles, were all actually within a bull's roar of each other. And the result panned out exactly as the polls said. The overriding thing that's watching the coverage on Saturday night is just how out of touch a lot of commentators were with what was actually happening on the ground. They're sitting there saying, you know, in past elections this happened, in past elections that happened, they all got thrown out the window on Saturday night. What we saw was a completely new election, a completely new dynamic. You know, there were all sorts of claims that early voting was going to favour the left. And then when those results came in, guess what, it didn't. And it just carried on right through the night, a complete march. You know, Mike Williams sitting there, like a stunned mullet saying, wait till the big boos come in in South Auckland. They never did. No, and also it was interesting that Winston, everybody had been predicting that he would be the great kingmaker, and Winston had been behaving like he was going to be the kingmaker and dominated the pre-election debate, really. All the commentary was sent around Winston, and now he's irrelevant. Well, he's irrelevant in a spent force. He thought he was going to do a Clive Palmer and be able to sit on the cross benches and hold the country to ransom. He can be safely ignored, and his legacy will be one of ignominy, just sitting there like a grumpy old pensioner that he is. It was pretty much what we thought would happen, though, Larry. When you think of the discussions we've been having over the last month or so, that the polls were pretty much on the button. Oh, that's right. And the spurious claims by so-called strategists out there, you know, in thepave.com, that it was going to be close, that this election is going to go a different way from what the mainstream media have been saying. You know what? They're just so wrong. You know, I said on my blog that this guy should rename himself Rongi Rongsin. He got nine out of his ten predictions on election night, completely wrong, and was only marginally right on the tenth one. I think, Cam, and I'll come into you first on this, Josie, and you can come back, Cam, because you've already said what you think about Winston Peters, but I think it can't be... You cannot neglect the fact that New Zealand first had a fabulous result this election. It may not have got over 10%, but they had a fabulous result. I mean, Winston might be there, but not there, because he's not in coalition with him. He can't have an impact, but it was a good result for New Zealand first, Josie. Yeah, and the interesting thing is, lesson number one in politics is you don't overplay your card, and by playing this card, he's going to be the kingmaker. It now looks like he didn't do as well as we all thought he would do, but in fact, you're right. That was a good result for New Zealand first. They improved on their results from 2011. And, you know, he will certainly be influential, but he just won't have the influence to be good he would have. Right, and, Cam, it was the polls that were suggesting he could be a kingmaker. The polls didn't really suggest... In fact, there was no poll that indicated that National could govern alone, not one of them. No, well, they forget about the wasted vote factor, and Colin Craig... I mean, I've just got to touch on Colin Craig. The reality is this guy has spent millions and millions of dollars coming third or worse. I mean, honestly, what sort of a political retard keeps pouring money into coming last? Cos that's what he keeps doing. In the last election in 2011, he cost National a majority. He's redeemed himself somewhat in this case, because he got so much of the vote that when it's been reallocated, it's given National the majority. We'll come back in just a moment, Cameron Slater and Josie Pagani. These talks would be at 17-6. Driving home the point. It's Larry Williams Drive with A&Z, providing business banking expertise near you. It is now 14-6. Cameron Slater and Josie Pagani. All right, Josie, before we get to the Labour leadership, Kelvin Davis and Te Tai Tokarao. What do you think? Oh, what a victory. I mean, there were a few bright lights for those of us on the left on Saturday, and he was the brightest of all. To see him win and win by running a grassroots campaign with not a hell of a lot of money, you know, a lot of door-knocking, a lot of direct mail, a lot of handshaking, and just being a decent Labour candidate, personifying everything that it is to be Labour-vary. And on top of that, Josie, winning despite being knobbled by headquarters Moira Coatsworth and Tim Barnett and David Cunliffe trying to put every obstacle in his way to winning. Good on, Kelvin Davis, and I'm glad that David Farrah and I actually donated money to his campaign. Yeah, I mean, I told a story on election night, which not to make it sound that I'm complaining about particular people, but it just seemed to me a symptom of what's been wrong with Labour. And it was when I went up to... I offered to help Kelvin because I thought he was a decent candidate. I want to do something to help a decent Labour candidate. And he got a call from head office and Labour saying, don't let Josie help, don't let her bring some people to help you. Well, that's just daft on two basis. I mean, if I'm not the right kind of Labour person to help a Labour candidate win, you're simply narrowing the base of the party even more. You're excluding people, not welcoming people to the party. You don't want a good Labour candidate to win. Both of those scenarios show you that there's something wrong at the heart of the Labour Party. Isn't that interesting, Cameron? We'll talk about that in a sec, but Mr Cunliffe comes out today and he says, ah, dot com, reprehensible. Why didn't he do that a month ago, two months ago? Because he was hedging his bets. That's the thing. David Cunliffe needed to have those rap bags and scroungers in those parties to get across the line. That was the only way the maths was ever going to work for him. So he was hedging his bets. Now, of course, that he's blaming everybody other than himself. The man needs to... I mean, he preens himself in the mirror most mornings. Why doesn't he start actually looking at who's default, who's to blame for this election? Because, you know what, it's not Kim dot com. It's not anybody else. You know, it's actually a rubbish Labour Party that's forgotten what they stand for. Right, and Jesse, you want the party to be gutted, don't you? I just think you've got... Changing the lead is the easy bit, Larry. And if that was going to solve the problem, we would have solved it by now because we've had three changes since 2008. Changing the party is the hard bit. And it's not... People who have been responsible for this 30% strategy, this sort of narrowing focus of kind of pandering to every... barking at every passing car, every sector group, every issue, whether it's animal testing or trucks in the fast lane or dead trees on the west coast, that has to stop. The people responsible for that strategy have to be held accountable. And they have to move aside, say it's failed and it's time to give some fresh people a go. And that starts also in the head office with Barnett and Coates, where if they've got a go, they couldn't raise money, they didn't raise money. They sat there and expected the union pals to come up. But, look, everybody knows what, except for David Cunliffe and the activists and labour. They know what needs to be done and that is to appeal to Middle New Zealand. It's hard to believe that Grant Robertson could possibly appeal to Middle New Zealand because he looks like a Cardi-wearing civil servant from the sea floating on. I would say, I mean everyone talks about as if it's some sort of compromise to appeal to working people. I mean, it's actually about being a labour party. And that's the thing about Kelvin. You know, I could see what David Cunliffe was doing. He was thinking, okay, we might need more numbers to cobble together a coalition with the internet. Mana Party awesome support on the confidence and supply. The point is, if you're saying we'll win at any cost, that is unprincipled. We'll lose and do the right thing and win at that cost. But the problem they've got, Josie, is that the leadership options are in the choices that they've got. The depth of talent that they've got are as shallow as a car park puddle. I mean, it's hard to see John Key waking up in a cold sweat thinking about how Grant Robertson's going to maul him in question time. Well, an interesting thing I heard you say before, Larry, about this whole, the new approach to electing the leader with membership vote and that you can get away with not having full support of your caucus and how that is a problem. Now, I mean, the challenge with that system, because I actually like the idea that members get to have a say and I think those members should vote for the president too. But you've got to grow your membership so it represents a broad base of people, not just this narrow-minded sector groups all talking to each other. Josie, thank you. Josie Pagani and Cameron Slater, it is now nine to six.