 All right, so David would you be able to maybe share a little bit about yourself in your role? So my I'm from originally from Saskatchewan, so I'm Metis my father's cremics and my mother's French and so all of my Education comes from Saskatchewan. I've taught in Saskatchewan Manitoba and in BC, so I've been teaching for 18 years and I've taught from grades two through to high school program for FASD youth. So here in Vancouver, I taught in West Coast Ultimate, which was a FASD high school program for students from grade eight through twelve. So I did that for nine years and then did a role as an Aboriginal education consultant at that time for about a year. We went to Winnipeg and did a similar role, but it was it was a consultant type job, but it was considered a teacher role, but I would travel from school to school working with different classes and different school groups based off of Aboriginal education or Indigenous education, kind of how we saw at the important parts that we thought we would teach them. It was myself and my co-worker, Lisa, who, Lisa Amon Hunter, who kind of we worked together and traveled throughout our school district in Winnipeg. So I've done lots of different things, but most of it's been connected to inner city or Aboriginal education in some sense. So for the last 18 years. From your perspective, what is Indigenous education? When we were thinking about Indigenous education, we thought a lot about, and we as in myself and my co-worker and I was having a conversation with her, too, about kind of the connection to the land, how it existed originally, to how it exists today. I think that there's lots of education that could happen within the classroom outside. So land-based type of education, which is important, and having that understanding, especially within the school, because right now it's based off of books, it's based off of curriculum, but having the understanding that there's still much more learning that can happen and that it's connected both to the school and to the land. It's important to take a look at people like our elders in the community and see what they have to offer and invite them in to be part of that education for the students. When I was working in schools and as I'm working in schools and I work with Indigenous students and Indigenous families, I see there's a strong desire and need for that connection through Aboriginal education or Indigenous education. Also what non-Indigenous do, like for them to learn, it's good for them to have a better understanding and to respect the culture and the history of the Indigenous peoples. So it's an important part. So elders play an important role, knowledge keepers in the community, inviting them in, having them be part of it, so acknowledging what they have to share is important and treating them like you would any other person that you would invite in that come in and share their knowledge with students to respect their time and respect the knowledge that they have to share is very important. So there's also things in regards to truth, kind of listening to what is being shared and taking it as individual truth. So depending on who it is sharing, it's truth based on their own life's learning experiences, things that they've gone and gone through, so everyone's going to come with different truths, kind of their own experiences that they're going to bring into the classroom. This is from families to students to even individual teachers. So kind of taking a look at that. You know, we're having Indigenous teachers as part of the education field. There's some, but there's not a lot. One of the divisions I was in was lacking in Indigenous representation from teachers being specifically First Nations. So opening up the field and opening up the door to invite more First Nations teachers in to want to be in the city where there is a large number of Indigenous students and a large number of First Nations students because it's important for them to be able to identify with the person that's in front of them and there's lots of wonderful and great non-Indigenous teachers, but there's also lots of wonderful Indigenous teachers that they need to take advantage of because they come to a classroom with different experiences often and are able to relate more to not only the students, but the families because that's a big piece is having a relationship with the family and not all families feel comfortable with certain teachers or certain administrations, so if you have a different, depending what your lifestyle is growing up, you may be able to relate to families in a different way than somebody who may have grown up in a different way. So I think it's important to visibly have Indigenous peoples in the building, especially in a school like this, meaning that we are First Nations focused school, it would be silly to not have Indigenous peoples, especially First Nations in the school where it's specifically for and not only for, but specifically for students of Indigenous background to be part of. Indigenous education, I see it as being encompassing many different areas, but the big piece is learning from the land, learning from each other and having families and students feel comfortable and safe and at home and to be learning not only the curriculum and book piece, but the cultural piece too, the life-learning, the drumming, the stories, all of those pieces that for the longest time you couldn't share or wasn't shared, it's important that they learn and to hear it and it's important for all students. What is your vision for Indigenous education over the next 10 years? Looking at my experience, looking at from the different places I've come, the different jobs I've held, I see it as slow progression. I don't see changes, leaps and bounds happening, especially when I move from province to province. I see from, for some provinces, step backwards instead of steps forward. You need to have school districts that are open to change, willing to make those changes not only within the staff that they're working with, and as I mentioned before, inviting Indigenous staff to be part of it, but be willing to adopt new ways of thinking, bringing in the stories that are being shared, the oral stories, drumming into schools and teaching the, and not doing it as a tokenism, but doing it as an actual learning piece as to why they did it, how they did it, the importance of it, because it's easy for tokenism to happen, unfortunately, in a lot of the schools, but if there's no real meaning behind it, and if it's being delivered by someone who is not from that culture, it becomes pointless. I know some people might argue that, well, at least they're learning something, but are they learning the right stuff? They have to really be aware of what's being delivered, how it's being delivered, and who's delivering it. Within the next 10 years, though, I think there'll be, if anything, there'll be some changes, some good, some bad. I don't think in 10 years it's going to be in my vision anyway, because it's been, like, for 18 years, last 18 years, I have not seen big changes. I've seen small steps in a lot of cases, so I don't imagine within the next 10 years it'll be that much bigger change. Hopefully, it would be nice if I was wrong, but I don't see it happening. But then that's my view. I don't. So maybe thinking of tokenism and non-indigenous school boards needing to have authenticity and make sure that their education is being authentic and taking into account the goals and the views and the aims of local first nations and Indigenous Ed, what information do you think they need for that vision to sort of come alive, aside from funding? Well, I think one of the big things is they have to take a look at their boards, their trustees, because unfortunately within a lot of the boards and trustees, it's a certain cultural group that's represented. It's very little do I ever see Indigenous representation on the boards. So unless you actually start at that level, it's hard to have that as a priority or even to have that authenticity, because if you don't have someone kind of driving the direction in which things should be happening and where they should be going, it usually doesn't go very fast or it's not very effective. In this school district, they had a district principal who knew exactly what he wanted and was the driving force behind it. So because of his vision and his desire, because he was Indigenous as well, there were good changes that happened for the time that he was here. Another division I was in, because there was no Indigenous person at that level, there was a great person that was like an ally, which is important to have an ally kind of helping and pushing it through and guiding whatever changes you want to happen, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen. So sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. So I think it's important to have somebody high up that's going to help push through some of the changes, because unfortunately with a lot of districts too, some people don't like changes. There's a lot for them to make the changes, so there is pushback. There is challenges, and this is at all levels from teachers to administrators to trustees or higher ups. There could be challenges to come up if they don't really understand why or know the reason as to the importance as to why the changes are necessary. So, yeah. Great. Now kind of moving from talking about Indigenous education to your own program, the roles you're involved with, maybe can you introduce your program to us first with the name? So this is school programming, so whether this is expert, I have not pronounced it right. It's a word which means cedar, and it's a word from this area. It's spelled X-P-E-Y, but it's pronounced when you kind of roll your R, I think. So it has a different, I haven't been able to pronounce it yet. It used to be formerly McDonald's school, so they changed the name. They're going to have a naming ceremony coming up in June. I work with the Division III, which is a grade 3-4 class. So there's six divisions in this school. It's a smaller school. I think it's less than 100 students, but it's a very busy school. So size doesn't always mean that it's the less challenging school. There's always things happening and it's a busy school. So even though our numbers are small, it's still quite active. I work with, again, the 3-4s, and because it's a First Nations focus, most of my planning curriculum is based off of, it has some kind of connection through the Indigenous lens. So we just finished like a Metis unit and we have stuff that's kind of set up throughout the room and outside on our bulletin board display. And so we kind of go through different units and we connect through language arts, connect through social studies, science. So throughout the day we try to make whatever activity we're working on is usually somehow connected or can be connected to the Indigenous point of view. My library on the back, for example, which is most of my own personal books that I've purchased are Indigenous focus books. So it's either Indigenous themes or Indigenous authors. And the big piece for me is I do enjoy Indigenous authors because I think if you really want a true authentic story or the perception or what they're trying to deliver to you, it should be someone who is from the culture. So I do look for books that are actually written by Indigenous peoples. Not that I only use those books, but if I'm delivering that book and using it in an Indigenous point of view or Indigenous way, for me it has to be someone who is Indigenous if I'm going to share that as part of that particular lesson. We try to connect it, at least I try to connect things, whatever way I can through the Indigenous First Nations lens. And that's one of the reasons too why when I returned back to Vancouver that this was kind of my first stop when it comes to a school to teach in. There's other schools in the area though that have a high Indigenous population, but the focus is not Indigenous whereas here it is. You can do Indigenous teachings and it can be connected throughout your year in some way and should be connected in some way throughout your year. What are the age groups at the school? What grade does it go from? It starts in kindergarten. There's a preschool program, but kindergarten is with Fiona downstairs and it moves up to grade seven. So my room is like three, four, but I have like three grade fours, the rest are grade threes. Down the hall it's Brenda, she has a four through seven. And next door is Jennifer and she has a, I think it's five, six, seven. So mine are kind of young grade three to really be on the same floor with the older ones, but because I have like three, fours on here they put us on this level. So it kind of works, but again because it's such a small number, you know, like any school you're going to have challenges. Some days it works, some days it doesn't, but I think for the most part it works pretty good. And then can you speak to the target audience of the school at all? Like what kind of students are you guys attracting or aiming to get here? Well it's a high population indigenous families. And even there are some families that don't live in the area, but because it's an indigenous focused school they want their child to be here or their children to be here. But it's not only indigenous students. There are some non-indigenous as well that come. Usually families that live in the area, the schools and their kids. And again it's a big dynamic for students. So yeah it's just a different group that we have. There's no one type, but there is a higher percentage of indigenous for sure. So then you've kind of already talked about it a little bit. But maybe just more specifically if you could talk about the aim of the program, the aim of this school. Well my understanding, again because it's not even my full first year, my understanding is that this school, the indigenous focused school is geared for indigenous students and it's a place for families to feel connected to a school division. Because as you know lots of indigenous families are not always, or some are not always connected to the schools, or feel comfortable in the schools. So in our particular school we try and make it where, and I think by having so much indigenous education provided and doing different activities and having materials, any displayed whatever up on the wall too, it does help make people more comfortable when being here. Having the classroom open like a lot of the families and having that connection with them and making them feel welcome at any point to be in the school in the classroom helps. So it's just a way of dividing, kind of bridging together the two worlds. In my own personal experience, again this is my own what I'm thinking, I never really asked their perception as far as, okay well what is the meaning behind the school, what were you thinking when you decided to create, make it indigenous focused, but my idea is that they saw that there was a need and I would say in every division there was a need and the division I just came from in Winnipeg there was a big need as well for that connection from indigenous families to schools because if you don't have a lot of representation and like indigenous peoples working in the school and darker skinned people like myself that actually look indigenous working in the school because in Winnipeg there are a lot of Métis people but you wouldn't know to look at them that they were indigenous whereas I'm quite visible like I look indigenous and it doesn't mean you have to look a certain way but for students and for families that's how they, by looking at somebody that's how they can tell first off whether or not they're indigenous or not I think it's important for them to be able to see and feel comfortable and just feel welcomed in the school and we do things here too that are more like for example there's going to be a naming ceremony coming up so they're going to do it based off of the indigenous peoples here kind of a ceremony that they would practice here is the naming ceremonies but they're going to do for the school in June I believe just before Christmas they had the winter solstice and they did it according to one of the indigenous groups kind of the practice that they do it here as well it's new for me because I'm coming from the prairie so my ideas and understandings and things I've been doing have been like powwows, stunt dances so it's a little different so I'm learning as well and doing active things that I've never done before which is a learning experience what I'm trying to say is you learn from each other so I'm learning from being here and doing this with the students and doing this with the staff because I've not experienced it before much like a student would come in and learn from activities that we do here because they may not be familiar with who the Métis people are and why Louis Real is regarded in one way or another and so it's a whole learning experience which we're both part of what in your opinion makes an example of indigenous excellence an example of indigenous excellence indigenous education well I don't necessarily see it as a pen and paper type thing like I think yes there's excellence in reading and writing and math and there's lots of different things you can be excellent in in those areas but it's also important to have that but it's also important I think to recognize that there's different forms of excellence so there's excellence in sports there's excellence in art there's excellence in storytelling and it may not be written work it may be oral work kind of sharing your stories so I think it's identifying all the different areas that you can excel in and recognizing it as something because I think even within the schools one of the things they don't do is a lot of things based off of the curriculum and connected to the curriculum and there's so many other ways of kind of achieving excellence and working towards kind of a collective goal just kind of like math you have so many different ways you can come and solve one problem depending on how you come to it or what you kind of learned in your own way of thinking with indigenous education because education looks so different education looks so different at home and off the land-based teachings and learning so it's to have that acknowledgement that things even though it may look different doesn't necessarily mean that it's not important that how they're learning is not accurate because it's all curriculum or not there's still learning that's happening so I know excellence to me would look very different depending on the student depending on the person I worked with students that were FASD who had excellence in their own way of showing things and things how they delivered and what they worked on to those that are two, three grade levels ahead it really depends on the person I guess or the student How do you measure the success of your program? I think with any program attendance is a key component if you have students attending you know you're doing something right if you have family because again it's that whole connection with families and relationships if the families are delivering the kids to the school that means that they trust you they like what's happening and it's working if the kids are here and they're engaged and they're learning new things new exciting things and they're able to talk about it and demonstrate it and I think it's successful it's not in my view it's not all based on reading and writing it's based on many different avenues and you can learn and demonstrate your knowledge in many different ways it's important to follow the curriculum and to have those areas but it's also important to have the other pieces represented listening to the student stories because again in the classroom especially when I have 16 kids there's many different stories that each individual student tests their own stories they have to share so it's just being open willing to listen willing to see everything that's going on when I look around the classroom and I see a classroom that's I don't know full it to me tells me that there's stuff happening that there are things and it's different things there's writing, there's whatever it's just different pieces but there's stuff happening in the classroom I think it's it can be visible but some things you don't necessarily see happening but through conversations you know there's positive stuff happening with the student it may not all be written but if you're willing to have those conversations with the kids and they're able to talk to you and share that knowledge, what they're gaining so that's another way of doing it because not everybody's a writer not everybody can read fluently at this point and we just continue to try and help them and move them towards it and listen to them be open to what they have to share