 Hello, and welcome to the Jenkins governance meeting today is March 24th, and we have several contributors on the call given Morgan a really in a real class Mark wait and will you have me? So we have several topics in the agenda. We will talk about news then there is a process update mark transition update and Yeah, then we can actually talk about more interesting topics like Jenkins events and what we Want to see this year also Google season of dogs budget request review so that we Align on what we submit to Google for this program and We had a visiting discussion about Jenkins 3 is just Question about what we have in the millionth list and to see whether you have a consensus about whether we want to release it and EPS 1 So this topic I Put Here and if you have any other topics we can discuss them later Okay, so first of all welcome a Villena Yeah Last at the last meeting we made a confirmation And yeah, really know you'll be a Jenkins governance board member until December to 722 So until the end of the return and it's more than one year Would you like to introduce yourself? Yes, why not I As it says in the in the shorts bio I I work in 80 since I think 2007 I when I was prepared preparing the text I was actually a bit shocked to discover it's already that long and A little bit more than four years ago. I started working as a CICD consultant and straight away. I was given Jenkins that I was supposed to approach with some kind of escort attitude and I'm still kind of doing it As a consultant, I work with a variety of customers from small single instance To I have no idea how many Jenkins instances my cast current customer has and I think That gives me a really good perspective Regarding what what what they are what issues they are facing and what is what is attracting them towards Jenkins and What is maybe the less Fun part so I do hope that I can by being a member of this board will help Jenkins and Help those users. So I'm I'm really grateful for the opportunity you all gave me So, thank you Thank you to all the contributions then initial comments team So let's move forward We have a few news about upcoming events that guess basically that's all we have recently maybe LCS start to check but Stages Yeah, so regarding the upcoming events we Working on a Google summer of code. There are less than three weeks left until the student application deadline We have a number of students reaching out the traffic is slightly lower than in previous years Maybe because of for visibility of the project. So If you're a mentor or if you interest in Google summer of code Please help us to promote the event by being through social media and whatever Yeah, we'll be spending some time in the coming days also to make the announcements because we did some prep work a few students have recorded the videos with the experiences from Google summer of code will put Student testimonials here and they're pretty cool So maybe we'll republish them somehow and The any promotion it will be appreciated so then thanks to Mark and All other participants Christine and others we will be a mentoring organization in Chicago, Africa. It's a month-long hackathon in April Mark, would you like to summarize it? Sure, so the the concept that we had was that the idea that she code Africa has is they want to they will pay women For during the month of April to write code for open-source projects and our project idea proposal is that they these developers will build plug-ins and then use their ability to build those plug-ins to add documentation To the plug-in so that we get better documentation for the pipeline steps the arguments for pipeline steps And better examples for pipeline so they learn how to compile plug-ins. They learn how to use those plug-ins in Jenkins and we get Better documentation for pipeline steps. The most common complaint in our documentation feedback is give me more examples and give me better documentation and this is our attempt to Help these women as they learn more about developing coding for Jenkins and help us as we get Better documentation and better experience for our users running pipelines Thanks for the summary Yeah, so this event you're starting soon so you can just to participate that there is still opportunities for mentors that are also between this or mentors just Speaking of it Today we had a presentation with another program called a spring of code. It's another month-long mentorship program and if you're interested Very good recording published soon Mark what you both them where are you doing the Discussions like are you gonna do it on Gitter and we join the channel if we want to help out but not officially mentor Sure, yeah, they'll happen in the in the documentations channel and documentation sick channel on Gitter and We'll we'll actually publicly announce the office hours We're going to meet twice a week with these these people that were mentoring And so we'll we'll assure that the conversations happen in the sick channel and that the it's known where the where and when the Office hours happen Yeah, I I assume there's lots of people like me that can help out but can't commit to weekly office hours like things Yeah, and and and that is that would be great I suspect we're going to find things where where people need to where they we need some expertise from a specific Plug-in, but we're hoping that we'll be able to help before we get to that Mm-hmm And the springer springer docs would be the same thing or spring of code will be oh it should be all over the place like summer code, right? Spring of code is a bit different because so there is no mentorship organizations person Just a second Yeah, it wasn't prepared to that. So yeah, so basically a spring of code We did a presentation today about contributing to the Jenkins project because we were invited by organizers. So basically a spring of code is a Is organized by code for course And it's a pretty popular Organization in India they have more subscribers than Jenkins on YouTube and Actually, it was a really good experience and there are many open source projects participating and presenting and yeah Now Jenkins is one of them So if people want to help out or contribute in the house Are they going to I guess the discord for spring of code or do we have a channel that we want people to hang out in? It's discord. So you can find the guidelines here. It's participation for students Their system not ours Yeah, right so and yeah, there is no particular way for Projects to be presented to be highlighted on the side that approaches quite different. So students basically select a project then start contributing and And then there are some mentors From the program. So for example, one of our g-soc mentors. Why actually all sorry He also participates in this program And yeah, if you're interested, you can probably join as mentor by Contacting organizers. I can share the contacts and yeah, hopefully somebody will join the program Participate in Jenkins or maybe apply to Google summer of code. So we'll see But yeah, thank you for all that Yeah for well, we were invited Yeah, I think it was a really good experience and we plan to repeat the majority of the presentation next week at the Jenkins online meetup so We'll reuse the content Okay And Google season of dogs again the application deadline is tomorrow on Friday We have an application ready. We will review it later together with the budget But yeah, we intend to participate in Google season of dogs and other CDF projects are likely to participate as well But we apply separately because the framework this time is that Each project Submits one application and one project idea So it's not like we had the g-soc sort of j-sort last year when it was mostly like j-soc, but on Low-skill now it's a completely different program But budget wise as well Okay, so yeah, we'll talk about it later and yeah LCS status So just a quick one Yes, we discussed at the last meeting when the LCS was just released and we expected a number of regression reports That's pretty much what happened So we experienced issues with mostly tables to this migration also Yeah, if you look at the grid guide Actually, there are many other changes Which we Heat so one of the directions which wasn't expected that installation result showing couple start up in some conditions So we basically documented it is no nation But yeah, still the list is quite long Nothing really terrible happened but the Community feedback is not good from what we see here part of the reason that not all Table-studies have been released in time and some plugins still need to be released Also, we have issues with the first plug-in we discussed before we have issues Scripted plugins still needs to be updated and a few other plugins which are widely used. So Yeah So our main objective is to fix all that until the tour Okay, any Questions comments I'm really excited for that too, but I got hit by one of the bugs. So I'm waiting So Gavin is the bug that you were hit by in the back porting pull requests that I just submitted Oh, very good. Okay. Glad to hear that Tim Tim and I put in there are Tim putting in right away. I'm really excited for it excellent Yeah, so Yeah, we have the first pull request submitted for back porting if you have something severe we can probably Releases it even earlier than according to the schedule because to be honest right now I didn't see any major change to be back ported that first one is the one I really want so Oh, yeah, so let's see but yeah right now there is Well nothing really fatal in this release but at the same time If we fix this issue if we have a fix submitted for the update center So we have a fix submitted by Daniel for that which we could probably back port as well Is it work to back port it? Do I mess up with the things completely? Which fix for the update center? So installation visa showing couple on start up. Oh, okay. I Have them up on the I don't think that we have that in a weekly yet Okay, I might have must have the things but I thought that to be had a fix and integrated it Okay Definitely not the best meeting to deep dive, but yeah We've broken update users. It's yeah, the root cause Okay, I messed up something sorry I thought there is a fix The fix has been integrated Yeah, so Let's see what we do next, but yeah, maybe releasing the two earliest possible strategy to be discussed so fine Let's go to the main agenda parts of them Okay So one bureaucracy related topics is CLA for It's a subject so contributor license agreement It's related to the trademark transition we had recently. So I'll just cover two topics in parallel So for trademark transition the process is basically over The documentation has been updated So what I communicate it in the million case that you had someone expected obstacles for example There is no longer a sub license process Because the Linux foundation has a license process only for the Linux trademark, but not for other trademarks Governors, so basically we removed this part and now we only have trademark tributions But it's compensated by the fact that yeah, as long as you follow the naming and conversion You don't have to spend time non-proven that So the documentation has been updated It's in place and we still need to communicate it by a blog post and by reaching out Maybe to vendors directly because one of the consequences that they should gradually Update the Jenkins trademark references on their websites and then their materials Which will be Additional overhead, but there is no need to do it right now or tomorrow You would expect So good question about the mark usages The previously approved trademark usages remain approved this even with the problem with the Linux mark Yes, there you go Okay, all right So we got explicit information from the CDF that all these trademarks are fine Yeah, so Linux foundation a legal team was in CC they you're not against that and I believe that this topic is concluded moreover, there is a Proposal from Tracy Miranda that if you want to have Additional exception names for example, let's say company name Jenkins platform Because we have two company name Jenkins platforms in the approved list. So we could introduce a certification process and Any distribution of Jenkins which passes this certification could be called Yes, such pattern. So this is what do they do for example for Kubernetes But yeah, it's a process which needs to be established And I'm not sure whether there is any practical needs to establish it right now So I would propose to not spend much time on that until there is a real demand So basically once the first person shows up who wants to name a thing That'll take a few months likely well We could work on that But yet to be honest if you ask me how we would certify Jenkins distribution Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, the specific thing was if they want to name it Company name Jenkins platform, right? Is that isn't that what you're saying? Oh, like it's not they could still I can still use the Jenkins trademark with the following the Linux foundation pattern I can use I could ask for separate approval for a different thing But the specific platform idea was based on then the notion Linux foundation offers of a Certified. Yes. This is a is a good distribution Yeah, right. Okay so Yeah We could have a process for that though. It's a bit tricky Because we could say that it's you pass Jenkins acceptance test harness So let's assume that at least Jenkins passes Jenkins acceptance test harness But yeah, it's Not the trivial in practice because for example, we have Jenkins for the run How do we launch it whether it's Jenkins or not person? I think it's not Jenkins, but yeah It's a completely different discussion so well, I Think that basically I was right. So if there is such request if we decide to proceed it will take a few months Okay, so this is what I'm sorry one thing on that. I will say I think in general we should say if a company is Running their own distribution or run is publishing their own distribution that we're not going to supply support for them Because I I want to like a blanket like every time someone asked question in Anything I'm like and they say we're using cloud bees whatever whatever and I'm like you have to take it out with cloud bees We're not going to support because it's all closed technically it's closed source. So Yeah, that would be one of the certification things that be important to me Could you repeat the beginning of what you said? What's that the support the I don't want to I want to make sure that if people are creating People should be going through the company's support if they're making their own distribution before they do the open source support And I think the company's ignores that they have to have a support symptom if they're gonna call themselves having a drink as distribution I think it's a long topic to discuss. Yeah, and likely they will be many strong opinions there Yeah from vendors from the community members So I would prefer to not go in this rabbit hole until we are forced to yeah, okay Yeah so Okay, the next related topic is about silly process because our silly process is basically the last holdout of Former SPI legal entity. So well software in public interest is a great foundation. They helped us a lot but for example, our CLA process now explicitly says that well, basically it's Transition to the software in public interest. So if you go to That's the individual company unless it's agreement. So Jenkins and associated project of software in public interest computer license agreement. So this contributor license agreement Basically apart from a lot of words says that you understand the trademark I am granted copyright license. So it's just to well, it's a part of the meter license anyway, but Yeah, it's Deplicating that there is also a grant of patent license, which is important for many projects and not that m.i.c. license The license we use by default says nothing about patents. It's one of the main differences versus Apache license V2 So this is a pretty important thing And yeah, and you say that basically You are eligible to sign this agreement, et cetera, et cetera Uh, so well, this is basically the CLA which is used in many open source projects For example, TicTone, uh, also a part of the CDF They use pretty much the same agreement. SPIG is just replaced by the Linux Foundation And actually when we move This CLA, it's also something we should know So there are a few other questions So one of that is a board member I would like to get rid of this process And replace it by easy CLA provided by the Linux Foundation So just to explain how it happens now As a user or as a company, you have to download This file print it Signed it scan it encrypt it submit it to the Repository as a pull request, or if you accompany it to the board mailing list, then the recipient Needs to decode a Signed document so when the governance board member can do it with a proper Private key Verify so that everything's correct, trims it and approves pull request, so it's to the repository so let's say It takes time and The proposal is to replace it by LFX tool, which is called easy CLA and for example Tecton already uses it with CLA and company CLA equal To what we have in Jenkins And basically this tool which allows to automate that so that everything can be done quite quickly Through the database and that these approvals are stored On the Linux Foundation side, so we don't have to pay about private and personal data That's why we encrypt before putting these files in the the repository Etc. So instead of that, they put the storage which is completely uploaded so So I am wholeheartedly Agreed with moving to easy CLA I am curious, but who actually has access to do the old system now Is it like Just you Well, it's not just me because I haven't set it up But there might be multiple admins and the default approach that all board members Oh, sorry. I meant I meant the old system So for all system right now it's So for the keys basically all previous board members had access to this key I'm not sure whether Alex or All you have verified to that But yeah, I believe that All of us got this key from Kiki Okay But yeah, this process It was horrible to sign it. It's horrible for everybody. Yeah What happens right now if someone contributes to core that hasn't signed the CLA? Does that mean that technically they can claim The patent on a something they submitted Technically Yes, if you want to throw all the Jenkins project and that's why in the mailing list I raised the question whether we want to actually enforce the CLA for contributors because our current policy that we ask On the We signed CLA on the four contributors who Want to get special permissions like merge permissions or permissions to publish to our youtube to social media to be a part of the security team But for common contributors. No, we don't Yeah, that's why I was asking because I was curious about that third question you asked so Yeah, so this question is asked for a reason because now theoretically You can file a claim Wait, I can't I already signed Well, okay, you did But well Even you did send it with software in public interest not with the Linux foundation and the mmb3 key topics But yeah, so This is actually a really important question what we want to do about that so I think easy CLA is the same one I've used it other another ones which essentially It adds a check to the pr it says you haven't signed it click here You fill out a form. I think the screenshots look similar and then that's it like there's not a lot of work Does the board have to prove it after you signed it or is it just done then? I haven't checked. I hope that this can be configured Yeah, so if that's the case and it's just that's it I think it should be something that we should add to core anyone who wants to submit a pr to core should have a CLA signed I think that we could start at least is obtained. So just to do I run this system And then we could probably start enforcing that So I would rather approach it in two stages There is also a proposal from Andrew and actually just doing VCO. So basically it's adding signed off by command to commits and So according to him, it's likely the minimum requirement from the Linux foundation legal if we have been covered this topic Well, the bonus I'm quite familiar with this your process. I have no idea how it would protect anyone from patent issues But yeah, I'm not a lawyer I prefer the CLA than this but So a quick question I discussed this a very long time ago with I think Andrew Bayer And he told me the Apache software foundation does not require or did not require everyone to have a CLA because It Basically only the people who merge need a CLA. Do I misremember that or is that some other system or was that just you know nonsense? Was that real well nonsense? So you can interpret it as there is an author of the request And actually the person who takes responsibility for integrating the code And who takes responsibility for what this code contains So Yeah, we had the same discussion for hardware open source licenses and yeah, it's possible to interpret People who merge pull requests as responsible for what they contain Especially if you squash merge and you became the main committer Uh, but if someone went and got Sorry, if someone went and took code from another project submitted a pr and then only you merged it um Would you you would say that anyone who merged would have to go and check to make sure that code is incorporated somewhere else Or would you would it be okay just to say whoever merged it took it on best best faith? Because that to me is a difference between who needs to sign that Yeah, so interpretation what Daniel refers to that the person who merged it takes the responsibility And I think that's a good starting spot, but I'm concerned longer term Yeah, uh, so there are different licenses. For example, you can copy paste code from stackover flow Some of us do that probably everyone Um, and yeah, there is takeover flow license as some people may know Yeah, every code that I think it's everything not even if you license in the house is automatically the stackover flow license Yeah When you would just run stackover flow use and then use it on agreement and you agree that Everything you publish they use under this license Which is not an OSI approved license. Is it or are they using I think they might be using one I remember it was a big announcement a couple years ago. People were upset about it. So I don't think The announcement a few years ago where people were upset. I think was um, they use, um cc um Creative commons and they changed the version retroactively, which I think is not quite Our things should be done but yeah okay So yeah, anyway, it's a separate topic I think that uh, yeah having silly if there is easy process to sign it Would be fine But yeah, the process has to be really easy for users a few clicks You know, so frightening in illegal text Etc Yeah, we need to firstly prototype that and I would suggest that We either do it octane or start from a repository where we don't have so many contributors, for example, remoting or something like that and But yeah, I think that CLI Need to be updated for sure and that we should do it shortly So that we emigrate the existing contributors and company contributors. I made some calculations. It's about a few dozen Uh, people and two companies, which I like to need that So many other entities And people don't actively contribute. So they didn't need to resign immediately Okay, and since we are talking about this topic a question for you, Daniel So for Other areas like the security team membership, uh, would you like to have a different silly? Because for example, the current silly doesn't say anything about non-disclosure Right, but that does not I mean the L stands for license, right? So that seems unrelated Yeah, so it might be called different like computer agreement or whatever Yeah, personally, I don't have strong opinion there But if you want to introduce additional Uh Steps so that participants Into some kind of commitment to the process Then we can do it now I mean, it would it would certainly be interesting to know what the options here are Um Because I haven't really looked into that before The vast majority of contributors or members of security team will always Are the clock piece employees? Who I'm working with so I mean unless they want to get fired, uh, they don't publish stuff. They're told Uh in in in private and um Or otherwise Long-time contributors where I didn't really have uh any concerns. Uh, it would be interesting to know what the options here are Uh, obviously it shouldn't be too much of a hurdle to get people In addition to everything else, um for people to sign up, but yeah Yeah But our current situation that we have many vendors Of Jenkins who are not members of the security team and Well, it means that if somebody uses these distributions Most likely they have a problem And yeah from the standard state of the Jenkins community, I would rather like to see These vendors are represented on the security team but yeah They may make things much more complicated in terms of this bureaucracy I mean contribution wise that would be interesting. Um, but I mean if they choose not to engage then They don't know what's going on in advance. Um Yeah, it's it works only in both directions So I think the but we should be working towards that And additionally I I would not really I mean, I'm not trying to derail this conversation, but Just getting people to sign up so they know things in advance It's really a two-way street. We really do expect them to contribute um, I regularly If if people stop, um Their activities in the security team I've repeatedly Um, removed them from the team and said well, you know, uh, just for security reasons. It's good practice if you don't contribute, um, you're going to lose the access um, and Yeah, so why we have occasionally, uh, people contribute Um, from the from the community. Um, who are not, you know, basically working on it full time um It's difficult for people to keep up the activity there. So yeah, that's that's a problem we recognize, but I don't really have a good solution there Okay, so we could review that Yeah, we just need to find out whether there are existing presidents say in the linux foundation So whether we could reuse the existing legal framework Most likely there is something for linux and other big projects And you can I see what they would be applicable to the drinking school project organization That would be great if you could kick that off or you know, connect me with the people who can, um Explain how this works. I don't know who exactly would it be but yeah, since we have other topics, I will take an action on that so that we Uh, have progress there because yeah, if there is an existing framework, then I think we can just adopt Okay Anything else on the CLA process? I specifically didn't mention anything about plugins because to be honest, I have no idea what to do with them and until we have a Good example in the jenki score representatives or in others. I don't think that it's It's Even time to talk about plugins I'm just gonna throw out for plugins. Uh, I think it's easier. It's a lot easier to um discontinue uh, this should be uh, just Defeated plugin than it is core itself. So I'm less concerned about plugins having the CLA than the core itself Um Yeah, the same time There are there are plugins and there are plugins, right? I mean if someone shows up who committed substantial code to I don't know workflow cps or you know, get get client And told us hey, I I want to cause trouble. Um that could uh result in quite the problems Yeah, so for that, uh, one thing that uh, maintainers can make decisions on their own if the tooling is configured properly So for example, if there is uh, just a get help action on whatever which integrates with easy CLA Or if there is a quibble in simple process For example, like uh, you have application we can just enable Uh, then yeah, it shouldn't be any concern because any maintainer can adopt it and for the most of key plugins, we know for maintainers us so Okay, we kind of work with stakeholders directly Um, so while we're discussing plugins and clas um What what what about plugins Where that already require a CLA but for someone else are there any such plugins? I mean we have a bunch of companies Pardon for example, artifact plugin Is All right. Um, yeah, so does this clash Would they do two CLA's do we throw them out? Is this okay? What's the Is this compatible So ideally it should be a part of our hosting process where we declare the rules Because for example, currently Requiring CLA can lock out contributors Also, I'm not sure how CLA could be compatible with our adoption process Because one may require CLA and then somebody adopts the plugin and removes All these requirements. How does it work? I don't know So ideally we should set expectation from newly hosted plugins But there is no additional CLA required I think it would be reasonable But for existing plugins, I don't have good answer What's your opinion, Daniel? I have no opinion. I have just confusion and questions That's nice So propose updates to the plugin hosting guide and that may be a bit Early since we said just a minute ago. Let's start with core and see how it works and then we can Go beyond that. Well, we can Set the expectation that there is no external CLA's Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense So it's something we can basically vote for at the next meeting. It's pretty much aligned with third-party dependencies and other things Okay Yeah, for existing plugins, I don't have clear answer. I mean, yeah, the factory plugin is probably NHK is for new problem we discuss But yeah, there are other plugins setting CLA expectations So I guess once we're ready, we should be working on this plugin maintenance on basically Just the case by case basis so that to be resolved with Yeah, there are not so many plugins reporting CLA. Okay So Any other topics about CLA process? Okay. So for Jenkins events, yeah, I just put a list Which I was going to discuss at the tomorrow's advocacy. Now 3hc taking the time in CLA would rather skip it and So one thing which is important is that We have voted for Jenkins contributor summit on June 25th. So it will be day after cdcon And for that I start Coordination doc where we can collect topics So if you're interested to propose something big It's a good opportunity to discuss Because I think that we could use this summit to actually bring really hot topics like what do we do with Jenkins 3 Also, how we align Jenkins with Jenkins X Because Jenkins X3 will include Jenkins again and Topics like that maybe what do we do with the blue ocean? So just to provide a topic which will definitely cause a lot of discussions But I think that we can use contributor summit to really bring up these painful topics and to see how we could resolve them We strong arm people and make it think make them think that they actually made that decision as well I mean not to get rid of blue ocean or anything Hypothetically Well, I think that we actually need to have consensus in many decisions and actually make the decisions together Yes, I know I just want to get rid of blue ocean if we just want to To make decisions on our own No, no, I think you misunderstand I don't want to tell people that we made the decision. I want to tell them that they made the decision Yeah, yeah It's good. Don't worry about it. Ignore it. Jenkins governance process is quite clear and I think we should follow that No, normally it's okay. Okay Yeah, so regarding other events. Yeah, I'll send the link to the Google locator and all other events is just for your information basically So, yeah, we will have cdcon We will have devops vault and other things like gsoc gsoc One of the topics which may pop up is java 17 compatibility What we do with it, but if you want to have a test again Maybe And yeah, so if you have any other ideas in mind, please submit them because I'm not sure how we will be coordinating that but knowing expectations about events would help And for me, like we discussed before the meetings. I consider myself as acting event officer And my main priority remains to find the organizers and to unbox somebody to take this role Oh, no, no, you're I think you said the last one, but you're actively, sorry If we find someone who's interested in the role, but doesn't have experience. Those are totally accessible, right? Oh, yeah, so in this case, yeah shadow events officer Maybe for a few months upon boarding knowledge transfers permissions, etc. And then we can discuss Doing kind of a Yeah, so I've been reaching out to people who are in the marketing and event space and saying, you know If you're looking to get into this this space It's a good opportunity to be mentored and practice in an environment That's a little bit more fostering than a new job. So I'm still reaching. I'm still trying but I haven't found anyone yet Yeah, so apparently there are so many event managers on the Uh Basically fun vacation now but not So many people are really interested in doing these events. I was talking is a few People from different companies. I know Basically inviting them to spend some time in open source directly because hey, it may help you to build your portfolio to find another job, etc But as you may see, we don't really have any Inflicts of contributors because of that It's not just the thing but we might want to make a post on linkedin It's probably the thing that people want to share and find so if you could post a job on linkedin now We have a almost professional account Yeah, that's also true Yeah, I don't honestly, I don't think linkedin jobs get shared nearly as much as a post does so Well, uh, but yeah, actually Posting something about hey, you're looking for not non-code contributors specifically for event organizers. Yeah It makes sense Yeah, I can add the next item for myself No commitment on time or maybe somebody else who wants to write it I'll write up something a draft so you couldn't see what you think of it I feel like you do too much and I keep signing things for other people I don't do too much be sure I think you do beyond too much that it wraps around back to not enough I just joined this board and I already know that you do too much. So Okay, do you notice? Okay, so given if you could drop the proposal it would be super. Uh, well, Donna Do you want a full blog post or do you just want like a linkedin thing? Oh, okay I don't care which I just was curious what we wanted even if it's a 280 symbols. It's perfectly fine. You know where we can put that Right. Okay. Yeah So, yeah Okay, other events again, we will have advice and actually meeting tomorrow and uh, no real need to discuss that I suggest to quickly discuss the JSOD budget and conclude the meeting so that we don't The it's been too much over time Okay, so for google season of docs What would you like to summarize it? Sure google season of docs is different this year in many respects one of the differences is They asked that we submit a budget proposal That we will then use to pay The writer that and we will pay the writer from The jankin's project for the writing that they do If our project is accepted by google season of docs, they will issue 40 percent of the funds immediately to us so that we can then engage the writer and begin the process I made a wild guess here on an amount Google actually suggests. Hey, you shouldn't probably ask for more than about six thousand But this is to fund writing across a period of seven months so What i've realized now after looking at it is that means we should expect that this writer will be part time And part time is okay. That's great. It's just what budget amount should we do? What what budget amount should we request? So that we don't cause them to panic, but we have a good chance of recruiting a google season of docs candidate Yeah, so just to provide some numbers. There are open numbers for google summer of code For different countries. So these are numbers for this year. So when jsock is reduced by half and so before that the numbers were twice small, but they were designed for three months of 30 plus hours per week Now it's basically one and a half months of let's say full time Something like that and these are numbers per country so it ranges from one 1500 to 3300 depending on the country and but these are references basically for student internship If you talk about google season of docs, we are rather talking about either professional writers or amateur writers who are interested to get introduced to open source And I have no idea how to map these numbers But yeah, this is basically the reference we have So I would make Guess that if we use these numbers as a reference we would be able to find somebody Definitely not a professional writer based in san francisco but Yeah, you could actually Find somebody who would be interested, but I think that it would be still an expectation that it's part time and that's the stipend no to the salary Because one of the things that we have no legal way to pay salary in the vast majority of these countries So agreed agreed that stipend is the right approach And I like the idea of using this I'm prone to say let's ask google for 6 000 or maybe 9 000 on the notion that that will get us four to seven months of time The project is intended to go for seven months, but we would just reduce the effort as necessary to use those funds other guidance It's not the seven months of implementation. It's just three months of implementation No, no, no. Look at the timeline it the the if I read the timeline correctly I could be reading it wrong, but my reading is writing can start april 16 and does not end until november 16 The Right so on april 16 Doc can officially begin so it's the earliest day The same time deadline for hard and technical writer is on may 17 And I would expect that what we do first is community bonding so that the writer doesn't start Implementing things right away Okay, let's feel it is unlikely to work So I would make a wild guess that the optimistic date for start implementation is some time in may Maybe even late may And yeah from late may until november. Yes, you're right. It's still It's a good point. That means it's six months instead of seven So I like that better six months is is fits my my desire for a nice non prime number. I like that Okay So And what the number you plan to finally apply for because I think we should I think that number is wrong and we should reduce it to ask for 6 000 and then I admit How thinking 6 000 would be a thousand a month That's a that's lower than even the lowest of the google summer of code, but we would just scale the effort to match The benefit there is that fits with google's guidelines for how much Should be requested we could ask for more. I think we're a good candidate But the more we ask for the the greater the chances will be rejected Yeah, so one thing that We can actually spend more money than we get from google because Well, there are multiple opportunities firstly travel grant Secondly, we could just use additional budget if we decide to do so So I think it would be up to our discretion if we decide to do so But yeah, if we get accepted then we get the budget if you don't get accepted because we asked for 100 k Then it's a completely different story, right? So your google's recommendation is to ask for no more than 6 000 Yeah, I think that we actually have an answer And I believe that for 6 000, we can actually find a part I am a writer for six months Again, it says Well, basically expectation that it will likely be Well, definitely not swiss alone, but yeah, maybe other country Yeah, a great opportunity to do an outreach exercise Okay So I think we've at least unless others on the board have objections I think I'm not going to take that as my guidance as I complete the pull request to update this document Later today that I'll shift that from 12 000 to 6 000 is our intended request Any objections? Any concerns? Nope, none from me Great. Thanks Okay Yeah, and that's that's a good one. We've got we just received notice that the 500 dollar stipend from last season last year's season of docs Has arrived in our in our account. So We do have hasn't arrived in our account yet. It has arrived to the linux foundation Oh, oh, so it's still not quite reached us. Thanks. Thanks for the Yeah, but it will be there. So just to Explain how the payment would happen. We have lfx crowdfunding So basically it's Well crowdfunding platform it's integrated with mentorship and mentorship Is the way how we could basically legally handle this stipend By using the linux foundation framework So basically we can register for the students in the system or otherwise and Then the linux foundation can do the payment through expensify and then All funny and interesting things like taxes won't be our problem, right? so And yeah, my expectation is that google money would also lend in the crowdfunding And currently just to show it to you We have more than 3 000 there from the nations And well, we have never really invested in promoting donations But yeah, if needed, we can probably raise more money plus we have still several sudden on the On other accounts, so Did I just see your smiling face on the previous page? Yeah, because I was asked to provide testimonial They could use in the blog post and finally they put me on the website Because I was the only one who promote provided testimonial for crowdfunding Just from what I know, but whatever. It was approved by advocacy and advocacy, by the way nice Okay, but yeah, so Yeah, you can see that there are basic organizations doing donate donations, etc and They updated the website again So currently we have more than 3 000 on this platform plus 500 from JSOC plus this year's JSOC Which should arrive eventually plus Whatever budget we get from for JSOC plus whatever donations we can facilitate it needed And Don't we still have quite a bit of money with SPI? Yeah, we have so we have around 8 000 there So it's not a lot but it's some and This money basically after handling all payments, for example We remember Kiki for almost 5 000 In the beginning of the last year basically just handling all the stuff historical And a few other needs so Okay, yeah, I was surprised just now because I thought I remembered something around 20 25 000 or some That we had like two years ago Well, we spent quite a number of quite a lot of money on outreach Yeah, yeah on other programs also on payments Plus I didn't include the JSOC budget Because JSOC budget is separate according to JAP aid But physically they are on the same the money are on the same account so Yeah, if we talk about running our own outreach programs properly, we should think about fundraising or promote donations a bit But yeah until we start 3D spending money, we are okay Thanks to all sponsors by the way So I will set for JSOC One thing is about crowdfunding platform. So right now according to JAP, whatever it's still in preview And from what I know, I'm the only person who has access to the expensive high backend So probably I should add Other board members to that until we start doing connect serious payments and processing Yeah, probably we should think about treasure roll on whatever one of these things later Any other comments on this topic? Yes, I just we do not touch the discussion about Jenkins 3 But yeah, I think it would be a good topic for the next meeting Could you could you give a really quick Summary of what this is about? I remember Jenkins 3 being mentioned As a version bump because of the recent dependency updates and such Yeah, so we still have some dependencies. We need to update for example groovy update Especially if you want to support java 17 anytime soon And and also there is Basically a marketing side because Yeah, Jenkins 3 could be used As an opportunity to promote Jenkins promote new approaches. So for example full configuration is called infrastructure is called New management, new packaging and something like that. So pretty similar to what we did for Jenkins 2 and pipeline One pipeline was basically available before but With Jenkins 2 we said that you want to have it as a standard Or something like that. So we could try to do the same for Jenkins 3 But again, all of that is just hand waving at the moment We need to really discuss what you want to do. So for example today, Alex Errol asked Whether we want to drop support for java 8 I believe that dropping support for java 8 would be a bit radical step even for Jenkins 3 But if you talk about changing Docker packages by default to java 11, it's something I would really like to discuss for Jenkins 3 I don't even need you know Jenkins 3. We can just do this whenever Yeah, maybe but then things break Yeah, let's let's hold off for that discussion until next because we're way over time. Yep So sorry about that and Yeah Next time let's try to Not go over time The next time I think in two weeks that is nothing major Going to happen No, the meeting happens at 6 p.m in UTC. So if you're based in Australia in Europe The time zone change is yet to happen and the meeting time will change Okay So that's it from me and thanks a lot for all your time Yeah, I know that it's already in dark in Europe Yeah So, yeah See you all. Thank you