 who has been generous enough to take time out of a busy schedule to speak to us. The State Secretary will speak to us for about 20 minutes or so, and then we will go to a Q&A with our audience. You can join the discussion using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should see on your screens. And do please give your name and affiliation with your questions or comments. A reminder that today's presentation and Q&A are both on the record. Please feel free to join the discussion on Twitter or X using the handle at IIEA. We are also live streaming this morning's discussion, so a very warm welcome to all of you tuning in via YouTube. So now let me introduce our speaker this morning. Andrea Metelko-Jagombic is the State Secretary for Europe at the Croatian Ministry of Foreign and European Affairs. Prior to assuming this post in 2017, she held several prominent posts in the ministry, including Chief Legal Advisor and Assistant Minister for European Law, International Law and Consular Affairs. She is also the Senior Representative of the Republic of Croatia on the Standing Joint Committee on Succession Issues, relating to the former Yugoslavia. And she is President of the Commission of the Government of the Republic of Croatia for Borders. So we're very interested to hear her presentation. And without further ado, I will hand over to you, State Secretary. Well, thank you very much, dear friends, ladies and gentlemen. I would really like to thank the Institute of International and European Affairs for this invitation to share insights on the EU enlargement to the Western Balkans, which is a topic of the great importance of Croatia, given the fact that Western Balkan countries are in our immediate neighbourhood. And I'm really honoured to be part of this future group in your project, and to exchange views on a number of issues relating to the past, present and also to the future of the EU enlargement. It is great to have this conversation with you just a few days ahead of the 20th anniversary of the so-called Big Bang enlargement, which I believe has a special meaning also for you in Ireland, since your presidency oversaw the largest ever enlargement in 2004. And this is really something you should be very proud of. So I would say good news is that enlargement is back on our agenda. After years of being left somehow to some kind of bureaucratic autopilot, now it is in our focus again. Let me just remind you that even a few years ago enlargement was not even mentioned in the strategic documents of the EU. And it was in 2020, when we prepared for Croatia's first ever presidency of the EU, that we really wanted also to put enlargement back on the spot, and our main goal was also to put enlargement somewhere back at the EU's back. And at that time during our presidency, we organized the Zagreb Summit. It was in May 2020. Unfortunately, it was a virtual one because of the COVID, if you all can remember. But this 2020 May Zagreb Summit actually was organized 20 years after the historical Zagreb Summit that confirmed the European perspective of Southeast Europe. And for the first time it was said that EU membership of the countries in the western Balkans and the Southeast Europe is given and including for Croatia. So this marks the start of our process, which was quite lengthy and demanding, but I would say ultimately it was worth it. So the first Zagreb Summit in 2000 was then followed by the Thessaloniki Summit in 2003, which also reaffirmed the unequivocal support to the European past of the western Balkan countries. And after that, there was a gap of 15 years with no summits at all. And the first next one was in 2018, it was the Balkan Summit in Sofia during the Bulgarian presidency. So we are very happy that since 2020 and our presidency, there are regular annual political dialogue at the highest level between the EU member states and the western Balkans. And I really believe that we should cherish this new regular meetings on the highest political level. We very much welcome that Ireland together with Croatia and some other EU member states have been a strong supporter of the enlargement. And proof of this was also the reason, I would say it was in general this year, the visit of your former Prime Minister, Vara Dakar, to Western Balkans, to the region. So we are glad that also Ireland follows closely all the developments and is an important partner in this very important EU policy. And of course, with the start of Russian aggression against Ukraine, the enlargement discussion has fundamentally changed. I would even say that the Russian president Putin has actually expedited the enlargement in the European Union. And in these new geopolitical environments, it even brought EU to give a clear European perspective also to the three countries of the Eastern partnership. And this all led also to the decisions on opening of the accession talks with Ukraine and Moldova and also granting the candid status to Georgia. So in short, the tectonic changes in Europe, security environment have invigorated the enlargement policy and have really opened the way for a quicker enlargement process. This is of course, as I have already said, really very good news, but still we need to stay focused and we should concentrate our efforts in order to really make this enlargement a reality. As for Croatia, our advocacy for enlargement policy has been a constant and a strong throughout the years and we will continue to strongly support enlargement process because of all of its positive effects. It has, if it's done properly on both sides, both to the exceeding countries, candid countries and also on the EU side. So allow me to underline several points on enlargement from the Croatia perspective now. As you know, Croatia joined EU on 1st of July 2013. And I really strongly believe that Croatia's example is a testimony that the enlargement is beneficial to both sides for the candid country and for the EU as such. And I believe that I can really say that Croatia's accession process is a really positive story of a successful transformation of a country which demonstrated both the value of the EU membership, but also the significance of the enlargement process itself. And I really believe that our example could really serve as a good one also for the all the countries included yet now in the process, both for the Western Balkan countries, but also for this new Rio. Allow me just here to say that when it comes to Ukraine, we also have some kind of additional connection and empathy. And there are a number of journalists in Ukraine who continue to say that Croatia's remarkable national journey is also a strong source of hope for Ukraine. And I have to admit that they really like that kind of use because they say that in addition, Croatia gives Ukraine a hope because of some similarities in our development and that we give the hope that the occupied territories can be returned, that reforms can be implemented and that once even after having the war, one can reach the goal and enter the EU and probably also NATO. So when it comes to Croatia, just let me say that first of January of last year, Croatia joined Eurozone and Schengen area and joining the Eurozone or credit rating improved which gave more security of course to the investors. Our EU membership has had a real positive effect on many aspects of our lives, in particular on growth of production, trade and macro financial stability. The use of EU funds has greatly contributed to a higher living standard of our citizens. Our GDP has increased from 31% of the EU GDP when we joined EU to 73% of the EU GDP's average. Currently, 25 billion euros are available to Croatia from all EU funds, primarily from the current MFF, but also from the EU recovery instrument. And this is what gives us some kind of insurance and how that throughout this period, convergence and positive impact of the EU membership will also continue to be visible in the years to come. Unfortunately, Croatia was hit by the earthquake, two of them in 2020, but we also successfully use the EU solidarity funds combined from those two earthquakes in the amount of around one billion euros. And really believe that all those financial resources will allow us also to move forward. Just let me say that we also managed to build a Pelešac bridge, which is a bridge which is a visible symbol of the EU membership of the Croatia. It is the largest infrastructure project in Croatia co-finance by EU funds and by this bridge we have finally connected our land, national territory in the south and this has been a long standing dream for many of our citizens and it's so nice that the EU funds made this also achievable. So in short, my point would be that we are strong supporting enlightenment because from our own experience we know that European path is the right development path for economic prosperity, for democratization, for functioning of the rule of law and generally for the better life of the people. So this brings me to my second point, which again is based on our own experience that enlightenment should be about transformation. The Croatia succession process was proof of the transformative power of the EU enlargement and at the end of this session negotiations, Croatia was different from the time when we submitted our application for the membership and I would say we were better off. To put it simple, we really believe that this transformation is needed and it enables later on the new exceeding country to function better and to function properly as the EU member state. And this is why we really believe that all required established criteria in the process of accession needs to be fulfilled, really there should not be any shortcuts. Lowering the bar would not bring this transformation on behalf of the exceeding candidates country and later on this would also negatively in effect, I would say also on the acceptance of the public of the EU member states when they need to decide ultimately on accepting the new EU member state in the EU. My third point would be issue of credibility. The enlargement process really needs to be credible in order to be successful and it needs to be credible on both sides of the process. As we all know, for years, the perceived perception of the accession path has been very low in the western Balkan six countries and they have not really felt as enlargement to be real. And they have often thought that enlargement has become a moving target and to be honest, they were some of them were really slowed down also by the objections of certain member states. On the other hand, we also have seen a lack of real commitment on part of the countries included in the enlargement process and they really should also do their homework and undertake measurable reforms and adhere to our standards and values and only then this enlargement process can really work. So, in the past when it comes to Western Balkans, the result was a very slow enlargement process. Let me just say that the whole enlargement process was actually initiated when the process of stabilization and association was launched. And it was back in 2001 when Croatia signed the agreement on stabilization and association and it signed at the very same year when North Macedonia did it as well. And even the agreement with North Macedonia entered one year before Croatia's one in 2004. Croatia's established SAA entered into force in 2005. So just to have this feeling how long this process of enlargement is going on without any real effect with regard to number of the western Balkan six countries. Now, after years of waiting, the first intergovernmental conference with North Macedonia and Albania was held in July 2020. And still at the moment there is some stalemate of the process and we would really like to see moving on. Montenegro and Serbia got into the process later on. Serbia and Montenegro signed the association agreements SAAs in 2006 and 2007, later on they entered into force in 2010 and with regard to Serbia in 2013. Now Montenegro and Serbia have been negotiating and we can see for decades and there is still a lot of work to do. Let me also say that Bosnia and Herzegovina also obtained the candidate status only in 2022. And now we are discussing how to open the accession negotiations. The decision has been adopted, but now we need to agree on the negotiating framework and then really afterwards to launch the to open the negotiation talks as such. Kosovo is not even a candidate yet. So the question is now what we should do to make this enlargement when it comes to western Balkans more dynamic, more effective, more successful. And I would say that we should somehow be aware that we should somehow revise the confidence of the western Balkan six countries into enlargement now today when we have EU with enlargement back in focus. It's been focused to some other reasons that Ukraine and this war of aggression, but western Balkan countries should be aware of it and sees them out. And I would say that when it comes to western Balkans on the EU side, we have done quite a lot. The new accession methodology was adopted and it was we are proud to say this was adopted during our presidency. It was adopted on a general first council meeting on which I had the pleasure to preside during our presidency. But in addition to that, in addition to this new methodology. Now we also do have this new growth plan for western Balkans, which also enables those countries to close the economic gap and to link availability of those financial resources with the link with the implementation of the required reports. And we really believe that this is a recipe for the success. It can be somehow compared with our EU's resilience and recovery plan, in which also the EU member states need to fulfill benchmarks and targets agreed in advance. And then once those reforms are achieved, additional financial resources are available to member states and Russia has been quite well in this process. And we really believe that that kind of similar mechanism to the western Balkan countries could also work and gain success. So I would say that all the elements are now in place. We have a renewed political commitment. We have economic package. We have revised methodology. And now we need to find a way how to convince those western Balkan six countries that they should really do their homework and if they do it, they would be able to move forward. I believe that EU will really honor its commitment, but the Canada countries now need really to show tangible results and adhere to our values, implement especially rule of law, common foreign security policy. And one could also see that in the past, when there has not been enlargement, top priority within EU, the Canada countries were not prompted that much to undertake reforms. But now when it's back on the agenda, a recent example show, for example, in Boston Herzegovina, it managed to move forward to implement certain required steps together with Ukraine and Moldova. And it really prompted those countries to move forward and really to be active on its EU path. My fourth point would also be that EU needs also to be ready for EU 27 plus. And when we talk about the future of a large European Union, we need to consider three major topics. How it would reflect on EU policies, how it would reflect on our budget, but also how it will reflect on our governance and including on institutional setup and on the decision making process. And I'm sure that you all know that the discussions have already started among ourselves, within the EU, in the Council and also wider, how to prepare ourselves for the future enlargement. And there are a number of topics which are on the table, including what kind of effect it would have on common institutions, should it be change in our voting system and decision making system. So there are a number of topics around it. But before I go to it, let me just remind ourselves that before deciding to embark into any kind of treaty change, because a number of those topics really require treaty change, we should exhaust all options we do have now and which are available in the existing treaties. And when it comes to enlargement itself, I would say that enlargement is possible on the basis of the present treaty, Lisbon Treaty as such. I think we can all agree that Lisbon Treaty is enlargement proof and formally technically enlargement can be executed also on the basis of a treaty as such. For example, Croatia, when Croatia entered in our obsession treaty, all those technical necessary amendments were agreed in our obsession treaty and this enabled Croatia to enter EU and to become part of the EU without any need for certain additional changes when it comes to treaties. And also treaty also offers a certain mechanism that could help us also when it comes to accommodate some changes when it comes to institutions. We just remind you that composition of the European Commission number of commissioners is open. It's not strictly provided in the treaty. So we do have within the current institutional legal setting have freedom also to adjust in view of the future enlargement. When it comes to qualified majority voting, there are discussions whether in certain areas, certain crucial areas at the moment required by the unanimity we should shift to qualified majority voting. On Croatia's view, I would first like to remind us all that all those unprecedented crisis which EU has been faced in recent years show that we did quite well, even with that kind of decision making mechanism in which we continue to have unanimity in the number of important areas. So when it comes to COVID and even when it comes to our response to the brutal Russian aggression, we managed to come up with the answers and I think we should be really proud of ourselves for it. And this is the living proof that EU is able effectively also to act also in the current framework. You also believe that choice of work and decision making is a very sensitive and important topic and that consensus building mechanism is really within the DNA of the EU. And it is part of our strength and from Croatia's perspective, foreign and security policy and taxation should be kept within the decision deciding on unanimity. This would somehow prevent, sorry, this would also prevent time, I'll leave it, I was sorry. So this would also prevent for marginalization of the EU member states and would somehow give the feeling of real ownership to the member states of the decisions which are really built on the basis of consensus. So just to finish with the enlightenment as such, I would say that we really are now in the right shape. We should really be staunch and decisive in moving forward with these policies and the enlightenment should really continue based on four fundamental principles, individual approach, merit-based approach, reforms at its core and fundamentals. And maybe just to run through enlightenment when it comes to Western Balkans, each and every country now really has a chance to make decisive steps how to move forward. Boston Herzegovina is now in the process of waiting for the EU to prepare the negotiating framework pending also fulfillment on the Boston Herzegovina side, certain additional requirements. We really believe that this country, Boston Herzegovina, need to be given a chance to move forward. We need to be given a chance to move forward within its current institutional setting, which is defined by the Dayton-Barris piece of code, which enables equal rights for three constituted peoples in the Boston Herzegovina. And I really believe this is the way how this country also can move forward on its EU path. For Albania and North Macedonia, we are waiting for the IGC to open. Open Montenegro has also announced its strong commitment to fulfill additional criteria even for entering into the new phase of closing certain chapters and we give them our full support. When it comes to Kosovo, we are glad to see that visa liberalization is in place. And we would really like to see both Kosovo and Serbia to dedicate themselves to the dialogue process because this is also the way in which both of those countries should move forward. When it comes to Serbia, I would really like to underline the importance of a common foreign and security policy and Serbia really needs to align with it, including with a sanctioned regime. And what we have also seen that the alignment of Serbia with the EU visa regime is also of the utmost importance because its non-alignment has shown in the past that it has a really direct impact on the illegal migration as streets. Croatia has been, as I said, a staunch supporter to the Western Balkans. We keep on telling them now is the time to act. And we would also like regional cooperation in the Western Balkans to be strengthened and also good neighborly relations because the fact is that there are still a number of open outstanding issues in the Western Balkans, which really do significantly affect the process and such as normalization or relationship between Serbia and Kosovo or functioning of Bosnia and Herzegovina are just two examples. And to be honest, the legacy of war of aggression waged by Serbia against the neighbors. Its neighbors in the process of dissolution of the former Yugoslavia at the beginning of the 90s still remain a key challenge and there are still a number of sensitive issues with needs to be addressed, addressed, processing war crimes, resolving fate of missing persons. So there are still a work to do. But with this new reinvigorated enlargement, those countries really do have a chance to move forward. And let me just say that this new growth plan for Western Balkans is of which I mentioned is of utmost importance. It could really move those countries forward. Croatia has also contributed two million euros to the Western Balkans investment, which also gives impetus for economic development of those countries. So gradual integration, let me just say that this topic is also now part of this renewed focus on enlargement and Croatia is really in favor of it. Under the understanding that this gradual integration can be implemented only once when a certain country really fulfills necessary requirements in the certain respective area. But this is a great mechanism which will provide a visible inclusion into certain policies and areas of the countries in the areas where they are willing and able to make reforms and share our values. Let me just finish by saying that now we have 10 potential new EU member states and I believe that on the outside we will also be ready to welcome them when the time will come for them to enter. But in preparation for it, we also need to work hard also on raising the support for the enlargement in our EU member states. And for this also I would say European Commission has a great role to play and we would also like to invite Commission to provide us with a various impact assessment on how the enlarged EU can function and also to provide us with proof that the extended EU will also be in a position to adhere to our values, standards and that it will be beneficial both to citizens of the feeding state but also to the citizens of the EU member states and that the whole EU will be able to function in the enlarged country. So I really believe that now is the time that EU reminds ourselves that enlarging policy is a really overall success story because it brings stability and prosperity to our continent and creation will continue to support it because really believe as I said it is a right development path to democratization, rule of law and better life and it brings peace and security into our neighborhood and also is a strong tool in combating influences to the third, I would say, hostile activities of the third state into our neighborhood. So thank you very much. I will stop here. Thank you for your attention. Sorry if I've been a little bit too long and I'm really now here open for questions for the exchange. Thank you. Thank you very much, State Secretary. You know that's been an extremely interesting presentation and you've covered many points in it. You spoke at the beginning about Croatia's strong support for enlargement and that very much came through in the enthusiasm and commitment you showed in the course of your presentation. So thank you very much for that. When the European Council last month approved the accession or the opening of the accession negotiations with Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Foreign Minister of that country said that this would not have happened without the support of Croatia. So what do you think were the most important and impactful ways that Croatia was able to help Bosnia and Herzegovina to reach that point where accession negotiations could be opened? And by extension perhaps, what do you think that Ireland could do to help any of the countries in the western Balkans to advance their accession prospects? Well, I would say that first of all, Bosnia and Herzegovina is our neighbouring state. We have more than one thousand one kilometer long border. We have very close connections to it. It is a state in which it is a three nation state in which Croatians also do live. So we have a number of knowledge about that country and we somehow tried to convince them that now is the time to act. As I said throughout the times this enlargement process in western Balkans lost its effect because it lasted for a very long period of time. So we said now you should really fulfill those required criteria. And to be honest also on the side of Bosnia and Herzegovina, one and a half years ago they had a change of government and this new government is for the first time the government which had a clear EU agenda. And the parties who gathered in the coalition made a clear clear that they want to move forward on the EU past. And this also enabled them to adopt various laws, strategies, action plans to start negotiating with front-ex to combat illegal migrations. So this new government had made in this one and a half year time much more than the previous government in four years mandate. And this is why we really believe that we should give Bosnia Herzegovina now further support to strengthen those pro-European forces to Bosnia Herzegovina and to show them that if they deliver, if they reform, if they will also now have the possibility also to use those additional funds. If they deliver they can move forward and then they build prosperity in the country. And I believe that Ireland, who's always been also the stone supporter of the enlargement, now we do see how close we have our position is also when it comes to Ukraine. We keep on assisting them providing the chance and we are so glad that Ukraine has also been given the chance also to move forward on the EU past. We would also invite Ireland to one part of your attention dedicate to the Western Balkans and I would say Bosnia Herzegovina, but also North Macedonia, which has been in the process for so. So many years, decades, and you lose your focus. If you are in the process for such a long period of time and then you are also open for foreign, foreign influence and you know, there is fatigue also on reforms within the society. It would be great if North Macedonia would be able to have this IGC together at the same time also with Albania and really to open the cluster and start real work. Montenegro is there, it has all tools available to move forward, and I would say also Serbia, but in case of Serbia, some kind of real political will will need to be found because without adhering to our values and standards and to CFSP. They really cannot move forward as a serious EU candidate. Okay, thank you very much. Let me pass on a question from Kurt Bassunar. And he says, if EU accession is about transformation, which he said, then should it not be articulated by the EU and member state leaders that the Dayton agreement structure impedes Bosnia and Herzegovina's entry into the EU and into NATO for that matter. Well, I would not agree with that kind of statement, because various states have various internal structure, constitutional structure and the Dayton Peace Accord brought peace. In Herzegovina, it is one state, two entities, three constituent peoples and others all need to be treated equally, and it is a complex system, but this is at the moment the only way in which the country really can function. And there is still this electoral reform, which needs to be done in Bosnia and Herzegovina, to address both the decisions of the European Court of Human Rights on said Finzi and to address the decision of the Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which said that electoral system really needs to ensure representation of each and every nation in a proper way. And without having that kind of electoral system in place, Bosnia and Herzegovina really cannot function to the extent it can. Once this is done, I'm really confident that this topic will not be so high in the focus of the leaders down there that they will then be able to move forward on their EU path. In accordance with Dayton, you have foreign judges in the Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina, you have a high representative, but this will change, but I would say throughout this transformation process of Bosnia and Herzegovina, to request this change now would simply block Bosnia and Herzegovina moving forward. Give them time throughout the process, throughout the years to come, also to reshape Bosnia and Herzegovina in accordance with the people living there. Thank you very much. Another question from Emma Richardson, and it's about Russia, which you mentioned in your presentation. And she says, to what extent would you say that Russia is influencing the western Balkans and in what areas? And how can the EU help to prevent further Russian influence? And if I could just add to that, China is also active in the western Balkans through its Belt and Road initiative. So to what extent is that also a complicating factor in the preparation of these countries for accession? Yes. Well, Russia is quite visible here in the region. We have an obvious suspect, one western Balkan country who does not even hide its close connections to Russia and Serbia by now has not really decided where it sees its future. Although, I would say, they know that their only future is and should be within the EU. But this should also come to the knowledge of their population and to their leadership. And at the moment, I would say the media freedom are quite restricted. And this strong pro-Russian influence is more than present in Serbia. One can see, you mentioned China, Russia. But in Serbia, you can hear that China is investing in Serbia, that Russia is offering its assistance, although we all know that EU is the major investor in western Balkans and in Serbia. And I think we should do on our side more to make it knowledgeable also by the public in Serbia. I know it's very difficult to counter that kind of narrative if you have the leadership who is not open for that kind of conversation. But still, I think we should keep on saying and keep on showing how much EU has already done and invested in the Serbia and that their really future lies within it. But first, they need to realize it also by themselves. Also, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, the influence of Russia is quite visible. And I would say it is a strange thing that in Bosnia-Herzegovina, you can see the influence of Russia, but also influence of Serbia. So Serbia is also a small regional actor, which also actively acts towards its neighbors, be it Bosnia-Herzegovina, be it Montenegro, but even North Macedonia, of course, not mentioning Kosovo. And with this narrative of the Serbian world, which is the copy-paste of the Russian world, it is not helpful. And this is something which we should fight against and show, not only to Serbia, but also to their neighbors, being Bosnia-Herzegovina and Montenegro, that their real future lies within the EU and that the prosperity of their citizens, their economy lies there. The biggest economic partner of the Western Balkans is the EU, and we should work on it, showing those facts. Okay, thank you very much. I have a question from Jill Dunahue in the Institute, and she asks, what are the impediments to the creation of a common regional market in the Western Balkans, which is one of the pillars of the growth plan? Yeah, we are really in favor of establishment of common regional market, and it is really of a strategic importance, and it simply allows deeper economic integration of the whole region and somehow prepare it later on for entering. There are lots of impediments, and the political will needs to be somehow found among the Western Balkans to work on it. And we really believe that this new growth plan for Western Balkans is a perfect tool somehow to show them that this is taking part in it and using funds in parallel to undertaking reforms is the right way to close the economic gap and for those countries to move forward. And I think we should work on promoting those stuff. Okay, thank you very much. We're coming close to the end of our time, but there are two questions that I would like to hear your views on before we finish. The first is from Dylan Marshall, also in the Institute, and he asks about how the European Parliament elections in June, how the outcome of those elections might affect the enlargement process, given that there is an expectation that the centre of gravity in the parliament will shift to some extent to the right. Well, we do hope that this, no matter what the results of the EU Parliamentary elections will be, that EU, the European Parliament and the council will have found the strength and interest to work further on the enlargement. And to be honest, I really do not see European Parliament being contrary to the, now, this newly found reinvigorated enlargement policy. There may be some, maybe differences about the pace, dynamics, but I would say for Western Balkans, but also for this Eastern partnership trio, there'll be green light also in the new institutional setting of the EU after the European Parliament elections. Okay, thank you very much. And a final question, President Charles Michel, the president of the European Council, has proposed a so-called confidence clause in the accession treaties to mitigate concerns about the Western Balkan member state abusing its veto power to prevent the neighbour's accession because of past conflicts. Can you give us your view on this proposal? Do you think it would be helpful or would it impede progress? Well, Croatia is open for discussing it. But I would say this is the part of the overall discussion, how the enlargements should proceed, what kind of EU we want to have once it is enlarged. What would be, would we have various circles? Would we have, and I really believe that this may sound quite discouraging for those countries which are in the accession process, not maybe because they really do plan to block at this point of time. It's neighbour, but it would show that they will be regarded differently, maybe somehow to be second, great members of the EU. So I would be quite cautious about it. Let's see how the overall enlargement process will move forward. I mean, from the moment of assigning the agreement of accession, then you have, it needs to enter into force. So there is a timeframe in which the other countries may also get on the board. And I mean, I would say it is a little bit too early to be very firm on that kind of views. Let us see how the enlargement would move. And once again, it is extremely important to develop and to cherish this culture of compromise, of good friend relations. And I think through this soft mechanisms, we can really ensure that ultimately there will be no form of blocking one country vis-à-vis another one. Thank you very much. I think you said something very important there that we all need to think about what sort of Europe we want to emerge from the enlargement process because just as the last major enlargement changed the nature of the European Union as well as its size and its functioning, I think the same as likely for the next wave of enlargement. And so we need to, I think perhaps think about what concept of Europe we want to see at the end of the process. So thank you very much for an extremely interesting and wide-ranging discussion. You've covered many different points and you've been very open in your answers to our questions. So thank you very much again.