 Good morning to you and many thanks for keeping it wide to 5.4. My name is Garandra Alex and it's always a pleasure to have you join us for youth and politics. Every Monday it's usually that time that we get to look at youth and politics, some of the things that have been relating so much and happening that relates to us as young people. Today we have quite a topic that we'd like to look at and probably just to give us a brief understanding about the buffing of Jubilee Party in September 8, 2016 after several parties merged, among them of course URP and TNA. The question of who will succeed President Uhuru Kenata has been running through the minds of many politicians from all the sides of the coin. Now 2022 politics are seemingly taking preeminence almost in each and every meeting where politicians primarily from Kielawake and Tangatanga are present. Well, this has been in the recent days considering even yesterday. We have had heated debates with politicians throwing words at each other over 2022 presidential bid. The president has however been calling upon politicians to work for Kenyans rather than playing dirty politics as he says, focusing on 2022. Well, the big question is for the day, is it time for 2022 politics? To help us answer these and much more, I'm joined by two guests. Of course, among them is Mutiora Karyara. Thank you very much Alex for having me today. Karibusana. Asante. And of course I'm having right next to him Daniel Rogo, who is a political analyst. So it is a pleasure to be here. Looking forward to a wonderful discussion today. Right. Amazing you began somewhere as then you chipped in right now. Karibusana. Asante. But before we look even at the 2022 presidential succession politics, I want us to look at the CBC. That is the grade three assessment that is supposed to be commencing this morning. The rehearsals are supposed to be beginning right now. In the recent days, there have been allegations that there have been not inclusivity of some stakeholders in the sector. What do you think about it? Well, I think this is a very interesting story that we've been observing for some time. I think the introduction of CBC as a curriculum vis-a-vis the 844. It is important that we understand that it is as opposed to trying to be looking at what really do you know, but then it's really what do you have as an individual, basing on your skills, basing on your career development. So for me, I think the assessment of grade three, I would really measure it into a number of things. First is the age of these pupils right now. And if they would be subjected to call it assessment or call it exams or anything that the ministry would want to. Either way, in whatever you are subjecting these small children to and all these helebalu that comes with the exam. So one of the things that I would try to add is the fact that while we are really trying to bring up and socialize our pupils to focus on the skills as opposed to paperwork. It is also quite important to safeguard them from the fear of the processes that are coming with what we are subjecting them to. I saw the press by the CEO when she was saying that this is a very critical age where we are only asking three questions. They are below the expectation above or they have exceeded. So I think it's important that even as we subject them towards a formative or I don't know whether it's a summative process would we have put them through a system where they come appreciative as opposed to trying to make them within us. If anybody would have mentioned the word exam here, you could actually see people's faces changing or even assessment naturally. What about these small children? But then the way you said that our education has been littered with a number of conflicts which really needs to be harmonized as we speak. As we speak, you know what the troubles that the secretary general of NAT is in and all other stakeholders. So the more the inclusion, the more the consultation and the more the engagement because these are stakeholders that are quite important in trying to build up the education system. Right. Muthiura, there has been several mentions by the teachers and of course even some of them head teachers claiming that they really don't understand what exactly is expected of them. Some of them have been so clear about these issues. Do you think this will be successful? This exercise will be successful just like KCP and KCP have been before. You remember Professor Magoha, before he became the Cabinet Secretary, he was in charge of NEC and he carried out with great success these national exercises. So I expect that these grade 3 assessments will be very successful. Now the question should be, is the feedback they are going to receive from this exercise going to count in the way that they conduct the rollout of the CBC going forward? Right. And I'll tell you, it's true that from the beginning, the stakeholder engagement was not as it should have been. When our constitution says we need to engage stakeholders to have public participation, it should be carried out to the latter. Right now we are looking at a clip where kids, that's the cross-leaf PPLs, and alone they are connecting garbage from all over the markets and cleaning the markets. I don't know what you think. Are we justified to give these kids these kind of tasks? Well, that's what I said, it depends on where the question is coming from. For me I think if this is basically meant for the intellectual, I mean what the psychological development learning, I think it meets what Udari is saying here that would we have a system where it is much appreciated, more of learning, you know, either conscious or unconscious, other than telling them that you have to do this because you'll hand grades out of it. For me this is purely for the purposes of trying to understand. For example, the importance of keeping the environment clean. The personal responsibility that you as a young person have, that you do not need to be whisked by the teachers. I'm putting it so simply just to make me probably understand what they're being taken through. As opposed to being told that you know you have to do this every time. It comes out of their own responsibility as young leaders and young pupils who are learning. But now the other thing is here what we are talking about. As opposed to what my friend is talking about that you see, we have all ideas or reservations about Prof. Magoha and how he's handling the education system. Others think he's bullying and dozing way through trying to reform education system. Others in his mind is thinking that Prof. Magoha is rolled out the neck while he was in the neck, he's rolled out this CBC system and he's going to be successful. All these things, people are subject to the opinion. But mine is the moment you begin to exclude important stakeholders in a curriculum development. The moment you think that their value do not add up, that is the process of which you begin to make mistakes. For me, I think this is one of the curriculum like you said that would help in terms of restoring our, you know, trying to bridge the gap that we were seeing within the mismatch of talent and skills and attachment in jobs. But then it would be very important that we reconsider our own engagement with stakeholders as we speak. Has the government failed in terms of inclusivity? Well, I mentioned that the kind of participation that was conducted by the Ministry of Education was more of just cosmetics, let it appear as if we consulted the stakeholders, but then it was not as inclusive as it should be. So to meet some sort of a PR? Yes, and to date, I would say they're still making efforts to reach out, but this should have gone before the left decision. Before I mentioned that Prof. Magoha ran out, carried out successful examinations before. So I was referring to the CBC assessment that's happening. That's going to be successful. I can guarantee you that. Just like KCAC has been and KCPE. The question is, the feedback they are going to get, what are they going to do with it and is that going to be useful? No, with the teachers and preparedness and the ones that have said that they don't even know what they are expected to be doing. You still think we are ready for this? Well, I'll give you my own story. I moved away from a school that was a bit advanced in 1993, primary school in the Rift Valley and went to Migori County where there is a subject that I was used to doing then, art and crafting music. But for you, you did it for consistent? Yes, now when I went to this school, apparently they did not have art and crafting music. Instead, what they had was handiwork. So to begin with, when I went back home and told my father that I have been asked to get the following materials, he did not understand because it was a sif we were running on different systems. Where I was, this was not a requirement. But now I'm in this other school and this is the case. So that stakeholder engagement is very important. First, the people who interact with the children on a daily basis, that's the teacher. They need to be on board. That's currently ongoing. Now besides that, like you've seen in the clip, what the children have been taken through also involves the community. That's the parents as well. They say that it takes a whole village to educate a child. So pro-CBC because this is the new era where you need to develop a child, not just intellectually, but then throughout. Dan, you seem to be having a contrary opinion. Not really a contrary opinion, but my point of departure has been very clear in the CBC. The admission that there was a failure of stakeholder engagement when we were trying to roll out the system, it actually portrays the fact that we might have begun from some point that is not right. But then CBC to itself, I think it's one of the curriculum that will really try to bridge a lot of gap that was created by 8 for 4. Everybody agrees on that. My only point that I keep on saying is the fact that as a curriculum, the infrastructure that is already laid, you just integrated yourself there that some of the teachers, as we speak, have not even understand. What about the equipment, what about laying down? We are having schools who have not even been connected to the grid in different parts of the country. This is a system that sometimes requires that you connect it to the grid. You have full power electricity and infrastructure with it. So I am not saying that this is something that is doing in section this that you made, but what I am saying is that even as we enroll it, can we make sure that this proper infrastructure, the skills and the equipment with the teachers, the well-trained teachers that are able to carry through this curriculum with it. So I am not opposed to it, but I am saying that it is required to onboard certain things that until we speak, there is a vacience about those things whether they are there or not. And of course you can keep on interacting with us on social media platforms that is on Twitter at Y254, channel of course on my Twitter hundreds at K underscore Alex. And of course on our Facebook page it's Y254. Let's go straight to our business line of course before even TP20 gets 2-0-1-5-4 starting with 1-1-1-2-5-4. Now gentlemen, I want us to dive in into the topic of the day. Do you think it's time for 2022 politics, Muthiora? Well 2022 politics has its season. What we should be focusing on right now is running the nation and helping the government that is in office today to get the manifesto actualized as had been envisioned before. That's number one. Now that should mostly be the work of parliament because they are the ones who oversight the executive. But then look at the scenario in our leadership today. We have the ruling party that in itself is divided. We have one arm that is... And we have Tangatanga on the other side. Now the party or coalition that came second in the previous election has crossed over from the opposition into the government. So if you ask me those people who are in government right now should be focusing on delivering to the people. And those people who should be focusing on 2022 should be the citizens asking themselves if they are getting value from their leaders. And if not, then they should be looking beyond them. And of course people like me and those others who are part of the exercise in 2017 and not getting to office. We should be preparing for office in 2022. All right. It's not worthy that... Are you vying for any position because I know that you're a farmer? Yes. In 2017 I was a running mate, a presidential running mate for Dr. Jafit Kaluyu. We ran as independent candidates. In preparation for 2022, we've been working on building a party. And it's just a matter of time before we launch this party that's going to be all-inclusive. We'll uphold the tenets of democracy. We'll carry forward this nation to make it as great as was envisioned by those who fought for independence. And of course I understand that it's a vying for the Kibbrempi. Well, I am one of the aspirants for Kibbrempi position. But then of course we are having a problem with our party. I think you understand the intrigues in Jubilee parties we speak. Yes. We are the subject to today's IEBC dispute outcome. Of course we are another candidate subject to our self through a vetting process. Yes. We went through a vetting and everybody knows what happened and we are still waiting. But then let me say this. You asked a very critical question about 2022 in succession and all these politics that are here. One of the things I really like to agree with what my colleague is saying is that you see there is a time for everything. There might be a time for delivery of services. And to this extent the support of the president, the ruling coalition or the ruling party to deliver the big four agenda. And that is what the president has been asking each and every political players regardless of where they are coming from to support him to fulfill the big four agenda. The other thing that the president has been focusing on that is the fight against corruption. And what now is getting in is the unity pact. Yes. The unite the country towards a common cause. Alex my problem has been and let me say this that everybody who ran in 2017 has not been around for some time. And this is when I want to ask my brother, be it independent of the party that he ran through, what we could actually be seeing other political players that ran through that platform to do is to seriously hold the government accountable and be vocal in matters of governance, matters of corruption and matters of big four agenda. The problem of launching parties as we head to election, this is our doing as Kenyans. And I think instead of us sitting at a point where we ask what did you do with what you given, not only at the national level, not only at the executive level, could we begin to question what has been our political place and all the candidates who ran for presidential or any other position to begin to task even as we head through political issues, they front them and all this, could we hear the voices of those who are at the equal platform. The problem that I question and give critique that as we head to 2022, you are going to see a lot of political parties, a lot of formation and I would be very critical and ask them what have you been doing in the time that you didn't manage to get into position until now. Just a moment, let's allow him to finish. Right now, like he said, the different political camps and this is a ruling government. One of the things, this is undoing. He's only mentioned Kelebiha and Tangatang. We also have women that are embrace and all these things. The position that has forgotten their oversight role and is now daling with the government. The citizens are left at the masses of probably civil society which have not seen questioning the government a lot and the media. Daliya mentioned two things about accountability and the coming up of several teams that have been coming up. I want to give you a brief response to what you said about accountability. Well, first allow me to just respond to some things he says. You see, this is the problem with the leadership we have today. Sometimes people confuse movement with motion. You see, you need to be able to move from point A to point B. Don't just appear like you're doing something when you're not actually doing anything. Well, he's a member of Jubilee Party, I believe. And for him to point fingers at what others out there doing is really not being sincere because Jubilee is a party that has been plagued with a lot of problems. Everyone knows this. In Kibra, for instance, Jubilee nominated someone who has not even been a member of the party. You see, that shows that this party is not serious. I've been in Kenya since I was born. I've gone to school here. I've worked here. I've contributed to society here. Since 2017, we've been on the ground. You've heard about the red vest movement. Every week you've called me to this show. I have come and provided my insight about how we should move forward on things. So what I would urge young people to do is to invest their time in the courses that are going to move this nation forward not just shout about things. We have solutions to the problems that we face now about the accountability bids. It's possible we can hold our leaders to account. The first line of defense for the citizens are the leaders we've elected into parliament. They're supposed to oversight the government. When they do not do that, then we are supposed to agitate, to organize and tell them that if they do not do that, we will recall them. If you went through the motions, you know that in August, there's that clause where you can recall your MP if you're not satisfied by the work they are doing. So yes, we have to keep pushing our leaders to hold those in office to account. There's something I want to quote from the president that he said about corruption. The corruption KwaGumada has been hitting the country. He said, I'm also not seeking reelection and I quote, and don't care who is caught in the mix. He's speaking two things here. He's not seeking reelection. On the other hand he says, I don't care whomever is caught in the mix. Previously he had said something that was quite skeptical. He said, we shall keep that vow because I personally have no friends other than the people of Kenya. Who was being directed towards this statement? Looking at how jubilee is and I'd like you to precisely answer this question. How is jubilee right now because we have kia lewe kia heftanga tanga that are fighting each and every Sunday? Well, I think as a member of the party I really do not want to put this under the carpet that the house is no longer holding. The center cannot hold itself and things are falling apart. And one of the things that I really, we as young people within the party has questioned the party leader to do is to call for a parliamentary group meeting. You understand? The only solution that sorted this problem because Alex, this is a ruling party and to that extent other political players would be important to see as a party that is able to cohesion and roll out development minus. So if there is a problem with the party we do not have to shout at different platforms but even holding the party leadership accountable from within without shouting this is what we have done as young people in the party and several times we have asked the party to hold itself avoid these camps but the other thing that happens that really it's putting at as crossword is the fact that we are having different parties under the formation. These are parties that came with different ideologies, you understand? To the merging. And the purpose is that the party leader has been vocal that is not seeking another term. The question is by the invitation and working with the opposition leader what is the line between owning a manifesto the jubilee manifesto and embracing the opposition. The difference of working with you understand and trying to commit and fulfilling the big four agenda. Do you think we have an active opposition right now? There is no, I can tell you for a fact there is no active opposition because then we are torn in between because look at the first term between 2013 to 2017 when the opposition would actively leave alone the battles in the streets even within the national assembly even within the senate and these are processes like my brother said that is the first process would actually voice their concern through the elected representatives but as we moved to after 2017 in the handshake it is actually opposition that was diluted in dealing with the government so as a person who is within the party it is not me to celebrate if the citizens the voices of the citizens are diluted within the power in trying to work within the umbrella of uniting the country. Let me go just a second. Mudiora let me tell you that even the third way alliance was the participants in the election they did not stop after the election they came and trying to find an alternative you understand? They trying to find an alternative what is better for Kenyans and hence they are proposing it is an active process that goes on. Are you proposing that even other parties should go on? No I am not saying other parties and other players well I may not be a follower of the red vest movement but I would want to see the presidential candidate what does you presidential candidate have a proposition that would help Kenyans? Issues of formation of the parties and these are issues that I have been very vocal about as we head to election and I would not really be happy about the formation of more parties we already have political players Alex The last thing that anyone should do is to take advice about forming parties from someone who is a member of the Jubilee party they have showed us how to not run a political party a party formed in 2016 and right after the election it crumbles you have heard about the beyond zero corruption these are Kenyans who have come together to fight the vice that is corruption these ill that makes sure that Kenya cannot rise now we have tried to engage stakeholders through dialogues and it is open to everyone it is not by your affiliation to a political party or to any other movement if you are tired with corruption and you want action taken the banner has been the beyond zero corruption and this is a house or an umbrella body for all Kenyans I have been a key player in that we have held protests in the streets we have been tear gas a number of times but we have not relented and our call from the very beginning was that should any state officer be implicated in corruption they should first and foremost step aside we agitated for that and eventually it came to be we saw the CSP for finance step aside we have seen a number of government officials being bad from accessing office after they have been implicated in corruption cases so you can see that the activities we have carried out have yielded some fruits now the formation of these new parties is a leeway to enhance and deepen democracy when Jubilee was formed it swallowed up a lot of political parties that's in a way shrinking the democratic space that we have that's why we can see the rise of tyranny now we want to embrace democracy we want to give voice to all Kenyans who perhaps may have a different opinion as compared to those in power have they been deprived of their right of democracy? I believe to a certain extent yes and there is something I wanted to underline from the statement my friend here made he is a young leader and he boldly came out unlike those other psychophants we see and say that the center is not holding in Jubilee work needs to be done to fix this that's what we need we need people coming out and saying we love our party we know it can deliver there's a problem on these and that can we please give away forward let's talk about the March 2018 handshake between President Huru Kenyata and the former premier has it broken some calls in the Jubilee party? it did that's why sometimes okay I'll let him take that so you can just go ahead you see you've had people say I think we are not on the right path I will not push to add I will let what the principle say is the case remain as such has it impacted the deputy president the handshake? I do not see how because his office is protected by the constitution every day when he wakes up we see him go around the country launching projects so clearly I do not see how the handshake has undermined him in any way alright Dan as somebody who is within I think I would like to tell you that was the point of conflict let's also understand where we are coming from as a country especially after the re-run of 2017 repeat election everybody understands what happened in the turmoil in our economy stagnating fear of investment stocks market coming down and I acknowledge it is important for two leaders these two most protagonists to meet and agree and not really make these two things about themselves let me begin by saying it was for the good and for the interest of all Kenyans to have a peaceful country where we would proceed to do our work as usual now coming in this platform today I do not want to repeat the incoming of BBI and the rest of all these initiatives they are meant for public good but the public have not yet received what is in stock what is the detail support that BBI is supposed to present it's final report by the end of this month even Puguzia Mizigo had their proposal but it was within the public domain it is incumbent for each and every initiative that are run as a young person I want through open data and open policy but they'll be presenting that what is in the public domain is the nine point agenda that everybody knows and can read about them but I'm going to tell you that there are issues that these two leaders might have agreed on I'm not speaking about this even the National Assembly members are asking in the interest of this country I know there's a report coming but I would want this niti griti as a person we are holding this country in trust for the future generation I would want to know exactly what is in store for the future and secondly you are asking what is in what about the deputy president let me tell you after the handshake you've seen there's a lot of changes the demeanor my brother in my sister in all these things working together automatically has not been has disappeared hence the formation now of kileweke in tanga tanga it was on the basis of this thing called the handshake in the bbq troubles did not begin after the rena of election it actually began after the handshake so it is important for political players including my brother to move to occupy this space for a long time that regardless of any political landscape we are coming from could we as young people on this space and begin to question that our political parties have not been forthcoming with the endowment and engagement of the youth mostly in important issues and policy regardless of any political formulation we are coming from could it be important for us to move in swift and begin to question critically these important documents that's quite a point that we will of course be looking at about the youth involvement because what we are lacking in this country is we do not have a critical force of young people who are drawn from different political issues agreeing on specific issue based alright so young people are really to blame on this I think they are really to blame but even asking them to you know you really need to front yourself in this initiative this is not what we have been doing as young people alright so young people need to be vocal this is what I am saying and I am glad we have one who is very vocal right here and all we have still have many watching us this morning and we should encourage them yesterday I saw in the New Kism youth doing the unforgivable someone paid them to show up with placards to heckle a leader I would urge our young people to critically think about the actions that they take we have brains let's use these brains about Tangatanga and Keleweke let's go back to the genesis if you look at the statistics you will see that the attrition rate for politicians from the Mount Kenya region is in the range of over 80% 80% of the people in parliament today are not coming back so we should see beyond the deceit the leaders currently playing around manking around and trying to curtail the president it's because they know they most probably are not coming back so what they are trying to do is to milk as much as they can from the cash cows that are ready to give at the moment and we know or we've had deputy president has some very deep pockets so let us see beyond the lie let us demand for value that's what I'll keep saying you elected the leader are they doing the job you elected them to do if they are not seek out an alternative that is credible and there are lots of them where we heading in terms of politics is the country because looking at last Sunday but one of course minor commander the nominated member of parliament throwing words towards each other same incident happened yesterday in Likipia County where we had minor commander of course obviously it was an ejection process by the Likipia County woman representative where we heading in terms of politics in 2022 well the vision 2030 in vision what the political you know all the political side of vision 2030 states us clearly that we are looking towards an issue based politics and politics that we are not really swayed aside by ethnic fidgetry or all you know name calling shouting all over what did this mean for us as youth it really places us at a position where we are inheriting a political culture where we can be able to stand in any platform irregardless of party affiliation irregardless of class to subject ourselves to citizen and sell the manifesto and citizens would actually put as a menu and decide based on the policy this is what we envision but what we are seeing we are being treated to this kind of old god political maneuvers where political has even become so detrimental that even in the centers of worship people would definitely throw words towards each other people would definitely eject from a church function it all narrows down to values and principles as a country when we allowed our politicians to water down the operations in effect of chapter 6 of the constitution then we put ourselves into leaders who do not have irregard to values and principles one of the issues that we and I am very passionate about this in future Kenyans and electorates my brother said beyond the point of dispute could we look at ourselves who are we because who we are electing into positions are exactly a reflection of who we are as a society of voters let me ask a simple question what are bad politics Muthura Kenya has had very bad politics for a very long time our political culture I think is one of the worst because to begin with it's ethnic based when it's not ethnic based then it takes social classes you've had the narrative about hustlers versus dynasties what we need to focus on are issues and we have lots of them but then to put it all together we know that our biggest problem is poverty we should be asking ourselves what is my leader doing to help alleviate our society from poverty we have the highest taxes in the world we have the highest rates of corruption you know as a nation we are not healthy our health system has failed our education system is just beginning to get fixed our leaders delivering on these things gentlemen because of time we will allow us to break for that time because time is really not on our side but as a parting short I want to ask this question will the 2022 politics should begin done? it's already taking shape and that is the narrative that it's being driven but then the only question is the voters actually to disabuse that narrative and make these politicians know that they are going to elect people based on policy and what they said precisely straight to the point let's remember that our problem is not the neighbor who is not from my tribe the problem is your inability to provide for your children that meal, the education the health that they need let us look to fix these things right, many thanks gentlemen for making it to come and discuss smart as relating to succession politics 2022 my name is Karanja Alex and I have been youth and politics Val is coming up next don't touch the door many thanks for coming we will be back