 aren't nearly as effective as simply just just relaxing your body and that would Okay, so just give me an example of situations that make you extremely anxious and how you overcame that. Okay, well I'll give you an example, well how is an example of failure. So yesterday I met Whole Foods, right, and this is a brand-new Whole Foods, by the way, like brand spanking new, right, just opened like not even a month ago. The paint's still wet, you know, and it's giant, it's a giant one, and so, you know, I feel myself potentially getting sick, I don't know if it's the COVID, I don't know what's going on, but I feel like I need to make some chicken soup. So I go to the meat counter at the Whole Foods to get some bones to make soup with, and I get there and there's like four guys behind the counter, right, and for one thing, nobody waits in line anymore, they just kind of crowd around, you know, and start shouting and just budding and doing all these things that never used to happen before. It's like this, you know, Taiwan, you know, wet market situation, you know, it's like a, you know, what's the name? Wuhan, it's like Wuhan, all of a sudden in Whole Foods. I think I'm going to Whole Foods and suddenly I found myself at Wuhan, at a Wuhan wet market. So anyway, I'm sitting there and I'm lying and there's like this family of Chinese people, and they're looking at the, they're like carefully like looking through the glass at all the meat and they're like really burning their brains about which one to pick, you know, they can't decide, they're talking it over, you know, they're arguing about it, and there's just a queue of people behind them, right, just tapping their feet and, you know, and they're saying, can you pick this one up, can you turn it over, can we see it, can we get close, you know, and they're inspecting it like it's this sort of, you know, Hondanese antique relic or something, you know, this big slab of meat, you know, and I'm sitting there, okay, this is one of those moments where I'm going to have to like use some relaxation techniques, you know, I want to start screaming right now, but I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to make a scene, I'm just going to, I'm going to suck this up and I'm going to just process this and I'm just going to remain a mature adult about this, right, and the minutes are going by, Luke, it's like one minute, two minutes, five minutes, and it's like 10 minutes and the line is not progressing, Luke, and I'm still, I'm like, this is a test, you know, you've been put here to endure this, keep relaxing, don't blow up, don't blow up, you want to blow up, and so I do this, I keep relaxing, and then finally they do this transaction, right, and then someone butts in line, they just leap ahead of me, another Chinese family leaps ahead of me, I don't know, it's some sort of a, you know, I think it's a holiday, like the New Year holiday and they all have to pick out these, they choice cuts of meat or something, and they just jump in front of me and they start chattering, chatting with a guy behind the counter, and at this point I just lose it, I lose it, I just start screaming, you know, hey, you get in line, I was here first, blah, blah, blah, I start yelling at the deli people for not paying attention, I start yelling at the Chinese family and they didn't understand me, and I finally blew up, I lost my cool, so I may talk a big game about being able to relax and relax your body, but as you can tell, you know, life gives you more than you can handle sometimes, Luke, so I understand. Okay, and what about with IT stuff? So I often experience anxiety and rage and insecurity and fear with regard to IT stuff, how about you? Well, that is my line of work. So I've developed techniques for handling that stuff. So I have techniques. So they were hard ones, you know, believe me, that you know, it is frustrating because you're talking about, you're talking about a non human entity, you know, and you have to sort of, you have to coerce this non human entity to behave in the way that a human being wants it to behave, right? And your options are very limited and you have to know the secret handshakes and you have to know how to look for the secret handshakes. But the simple answer and you're going to know this answer is to Google. You can believe it or not. Yeah. If you can, you can put a pretty poorly formed question and pretty quickly arrive at a you can write you can arrive at a blog post. It's addressing exactly the issue you're facing. Yes, we're not alone. We're a community. We're not islands. We're all bound together. And on a one to 10, how, what kind of grade would you give yourself in your profession with 10 being most excellent? This may sound arrogant, but I give myself an eight. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I've, I mean, I'm going to my 23rd year of doing this. So I've got like a lot of day to day experience with all this stuff. So I have, you know, there's something to be you can be very intelligent or you can have a lot of experience. So I have a lot of experience. So what do you notice about younger people in your field? It's a good question. First and variable. There are some that are very smart. Like I said, they're they're very smart, very quick on the uptake, but they don't have the sort of deep foundation that allows them to think outside of pre made ready made solutions, right? How important is that deep foundation for simply getting it done in the real world? The deep foundation comes into play. When something goes wrong, right? To understand a diagnose, to understand a diagnose a problem. You need that deep foundation. You can get something done in a more or less effective way. But it's it's like, it's different between a pharmacist and a doctor, you know, like a pharmacist can dispense the pills to you to make you healthy. But a dot needs a doctor to understand the cause. That makes sense. So the younger, younger people are the better ones are eager and they're receptive to new information. And they're hungry, right? But there's a lot of people that just want to get paid and go home and want to just do as little as possible. And they end up they add a lot less value. But you can coast, you can, you can you can get away with that latter attitude for a number of years. And because there's just so much, there's so much demand for, you know, technology, people that can do technology, that people are really willing to overlook a lot of deficiencies. In the way that somebody that's job whose job it is to sort of change the the airplane to fix the airplane engine would not get such slack. Because ultimately, it's only data. So what are you one of the primary tools that you use to combat unwanted levels of anxiety and fear and frustration and anger? Exercise, even light exercise, walking, twisting, stretching, swimming. I'd like to say meditation, I used to do that, but I simply can't do it anymore for some reason. I don't know. But I find I'm able to discharge a lot of mental stress through physical activity. And also, I have an attitude of I've also the only added here's just I mean, this amount, this may sound really simple and trite, but you have to just remind yourself it doesn't matter. You know, yes, it's important to get this done. But if you just sort of tell yourself, if I relax, I'll be able to get this done. And this be all this whole little drama will be over. And you'll move on. But you need to sort of let go a little bit before you can actually engage. It's a paradise. Do you ever suffer from imposter syndrome? Early days, my career, yes. Absolutely. Because I was an imposter. I was a total fake it till you make it imposter. And I got sick of feeling that way. So I, you know, I buckled down and worked at it. But yeah, the entire first year of my working life is a total imposter. I used to think I would be fired. I'd go to work thing was my last day. You know, I was perfectly ready to be fired, you know, and every day that I didn't get fired, you know, I'm like, was a win for me. But this was like during the dot com era. And there was just a huge, huge slack period, you know, you could really just be a complete boob and keep your job. May I ask what's the most amount of money you've ever made in one year? Is it is it cool to talk like that? I made 150 one year. Okay. So yeah, the most I've made is six months. Okay, so yeah, the most I've made is six figures. But that year was such a painful year. It wasn't worth it in the end. How many how many hours a week did you work? I worked about 50 I guess it wasn't the number of hours. It was the amount of stress that surrounded the work. Yeah. Like, I would wake up every morning and just think I'd rather be dead than go to work right now. I would rather be dead, you know. So I decided not to live like that anymore. It's not, you know, the money is fine and everything, but the pain associated with some types of work is just not worth it. You know, because money really didn't really, it didn't really change much, you know, having that sort of extra financial cushion, you know, it didn't it sort of led me into bad habits, actually. So it's weird that your your needs kind of automatically expand with your income, you know, buying all sorts of vegetable juices. Yeah, it's like little things like that. And you're like, oh, I can afford it. Yeah, I can afford it. And pretty soon, you know, you're looking, you look at your bank like, what am I blowing my money on? You know, this bullshit, you know, and the actual benefits like, you know, you, I don't know, just I just youth is wasted on young and money is wasted on the stupid. So here's the thing for me. This is the number one factor in in my anxiety levels, my fear levels, my narcissism levels, my depression levels, and, and maybe even my energy levels, it's the quality of my relationships with other people. If I'm feeling strongly connected with other people, my anxiety, and my depression, and my rage, and my fear, and, and my need for, you know, narcissistic release and diversion is quite muted. So if I'm not feeling strongly connected with other people, then, you know, I'm just wide open to, you know, any of these various maladies. But it overwhelmingly just comes down to the quality of my bonds with others. Yeah, you say that often. Do you find that they haven't flow or they just remain? Oh, no, they absolutely haven't flow. Like, I, I thought that I had great relations with someone. And they really suddenly realized that they hate me. Or hate you? Yeah, yeah, in IRL or online. Yeah, in real life, I thought I had great relations with someone. And then it suddenly just like he burst out and just cut me to pieces in front of others. Oh, yeah, man or woman, a man. Like your peer group or older younger? Peer group. And yeah, that was that was devastating because you know, I thought he was a friend and I completely misread that. Or I've misread my standing in my community, whichever community it is. Now I thought it was above average. I thought it was good. And suddenly, I walk into a room and I realize it's below average. Well, do you feel like you picked up on social cues? Accurately? I think I'm okay. I wouldn't say I'm a I don't think I'm above average. So I do have a rule. I will not date any woman who's worse than me picking up social cues. So that only happened to me once. And after that, I said never again. But I mean, that's a pretty big miss. I have to say, I mean, like, yes, yes, I've had some big message. Yeah. I'm not I'm not trying to criticize you. I'm just saying. I mean, I remember that kind of experience when I was, you know, in teenage years and stuff, what sort of, you know, high school style relationships, but adult relationships. I mean, people. How often did you have contact with this person? Every day. But I made one tasteless joke to many. Oh, you know, I could see that. Yeah, I could see. Okay. You know what? Here's what it is. Some people can absorb a lot. Yes. And then they break and they break violently. Other people can't absorb too much and they let you know immediately. Yes. Right. And so you can calibrate around them. Yes. But it's it's those silent types like me. Yes. I absorb a lot. I absorb a lot. And then finally, I just deranged, just pours out like a volcano, you know, so maybe you got caught one of those traps. Yeah, but he made it clear all along that he didn't appreciate this particular type of humor. He made it clear. And I just ignored an overroad. Now that now that's a mistake. Well, why would you do that? Because I get high from thinking I'm entertaining people. Yeah, see, that's, hmm. I think you, you think you're like testing the bounds of the friendship? And that's a weird behavior. Are you trying to say it? Well, you know, I can, I know he doesn't like it, but I'm gonna taunt him anyway because our bond is so strong. No, it's more like, I'm not even thinking about how he doesn't like it. I'm just thinking this is a hilarious remark to make right now. Now, is it was it really off color or was it just slightly off color? Well, I said to two Jewish businessman, you know, I really love your your Torah learning or something like that when they were talking about bargaining techniques. That's now I only found out funny. They didn't find out funny. No, not at all. Interesting. Oh, and you made similar such jokes in the past. Yeah, I talked about I love seeing you I love seeing you guys use your Judaism. I love your Torah, man. And he just exploded. But I mean, he made it clear 10 times before that he didn't appreciate this. Well, do you think maybe he felt, you know, a little guilty or something? Or he was just he was right just leading in dignity. And he was always right just leading it. But I just didn't notice. But now he just exploded in front of all sorts of people. Oh, and then I went right back at him. And see, that's, you know, it's a very interesting tale or something as you do. And that's happened to me hundreds of times in my life. Hundreds of times hundreds of times in my life, I am getting high at making jokes. And other people are offended, but they tolerate, tolerate, tolerate until they explode. And a psychiatrist who said, you know, body is driven to provoke people and he won't stop until they set limits on him. Now, so you've been exploded on? Yeah, a hundred times in your life. Yes. Oh, man. Yeah, I've been exploded on but not recently. I did have this woman sort of freak out at me and give me the bird like, like a foot from my face in an office setting. And that was because I I wouldn't say exploded at her. But I publicly, you know, I in a meeting, I told her not to interrupt me anymore, you know, very firmly and very directly. So I don't you know, I was, I think perfectly within my rights to say that. And then she just starts flailing her arms and her face gets red. And then she just gives me the middle finger and storms off. Yeah, I just realized, wow, I've been exploded on 109 times. And I never did anything wrong. I've been like ejected from communities 109 times and never for anything I did. Oh God. 109 times people have just freaked out on me for no Don reason. Exactly 109. Exactly 109. I couldn't believe it. I was just adding it up in my head now. 109 109 times I've been kicked out of a community and it's never for anything I've done. Just people are irrational eruptions of rage at me. You didn't do nothing. I never did nothing. I was just like minding the Torah is just you know, doing mitzvahs and 109 times for no good reason. People just get furious at me and throw me out of their community. You were practicing your own internal morality. I was wasn't practicing my own internal. I was practicing the Torah's morality. Yeah, true. True. Your own in group rally. I was practicing the divine law. And then people just like freak out at me for no reason whatsoever. And it's like, it's like a pogrom. It's like a pogrom. It's amazing. It's amazing how the cycle repeats. And no one seems to be reason. That's the whole point. Like if I done something wrong, I'd understand it. But 109 times for no good reason. I mean, I just hope it doesn't end up with like six million times. Well, let's get have, you know, yeah, this can affect your wider community if it's kept up. Six million is no joke, bro. No, no, I mean, 109 is pretty bad. Well, so what so how could you become conscious of this behavior pattern? Do you and maybe, you know, I used to have a lot of annoying ticks and probably still do. And, you know, people have made me aware of this, and it's very painful to receive that message. And so you I guess you have two options once you get that message, you can either take it on board and do some introspection. Or you can go into denial and sort of double down. Kind of like the Ralph's sort of situation. So someone I was staying with someone and and she was participating in her book club with members of her Anglican church. And I was kind of tired of being, you know, off camera and just, you know, being kind of isolated in this small apartment. So I put on my dad's bright red dressing gown. And you know, I just kind of flounced out into the living room. And I lay on the couch like a full view of her book club. And I started doing this exercise. I had this like this this pain in my piriformis muscle, which is like right in the middle of the buttock. And so like I'm, I'm, you know, I'm throwing off one set of clothing, you know, I'm throwing out my dad's bright red dressing gown. I'm lying down on the couch. And it's look looks from an objective perspective, it looks like I'm humping the couch. But I'm really just doing an exercise for my piriformis muscle. This person whom I'm staying with like says, Oh, I'm sorry, I got to go because it looked like I found out that I was doing a strip tease and then humping the couch when they were trying to have a godly book club discussion. How old are you when this event happened? This was about two months ago. And I thought it was hilarious for you to say 20 years ago. This is like two months ago. I thought it was hilarious. Like I just laughing and laughing. And this person close to me is a very respectable person. And she was in Australia. Yeah, this is in Australia. And this is a very respectable person with no important connections, you know, maybe even work connections. And these people are very important to her and brother is doing a strip tease in the background and then culminating by humping the couch. And and so I just think it's like the most funny thing ever. And so I call my brother. And I say, Oh, you never guess what just happened. Isn't this hilarious? And my brother pointed out that I was being a selfish prick. The gall of him. Yeah, I thought this was hilarious. I thought he would join with me in celebrating the hilarity of this trip tease humping the couch performance. But he just thought I was being selfish with the offended party, your sister. I can't say I can't get into that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, Luke, I mean, I gotta say, you have to have to ask yourself to these behaviors serve you. Isn't that what the 12 step question would be? That is the question. And it didn't. But it wasn't horrible. Like it wasn't a 10 out of a 10 disaster. But you know, it was it was a bad thing to do for someone who'd been very good to me. And that doesn't serve me to do bad things to people who be good to me. I think you I think you probably this is how you saw it. I'm gonna show my appreciation to her or him. I think it was her by amusing them because they're all very intense and I thought I was bringing in I thought I was doing a mitzvah. Yeah, no, I was bad optics. It was better. It was better. But I can honestly, there was a part of me that would do I don't know something exactly like that. But I do I used to inject levity in situations where it wasn't called for it wasn't appreciated. Not to the degree that you have done. But I sort of understand the impulse, you know, that class clown impulse. You know, and I'm not even sure I condemn it. You know, I, you know, it's not. I don't know. solemnity. I don't know. Doesn't take not everybody can be solemn all the time, or even any of the time.