 You yell from the other room to turn something on and have it not work. And now you're frustrated as you- Yeah, they're airing on the line on that side. Cause how often does it really, it should, here's the thing though, I've heard people say that they were listening to an episode on the echo and then saying the trigger word triggered it to do the thing. And I'm like, it should know that that's coming from itself, shouldn't it? Anyway, yeah, you're right. It's all next gen stuff. Yeah. Um, how much do we want to spend on Twitter slash fine? We can spend a little bit of time. I think the other top stories are a little shorter. We might go down a rabbit hole with groceries, I don't know. And then we've got quite a- I'm an unrepentant Amazon Fresh customer. We've got quite a bit of set aside for Apple. I don't know that we'll use it all to be honest. No, I mean, I think that there's a good larger conversation of their strategy versus touchscreen. Yeah, but usually I'm like, ooh, we're gonna have 15 minutes, 20 minutes on this. I don't know that we'll hit that. The only other thing we have is pick of the day. So we can stretch a little on Twitter cause there's a lot to talk about there. Well, and again, it almost, man, we gotta, to speaking of the memes, man, we gotta codify the like, the Twitter ha of the week. Like, you know, just the like, what in the hot hell is going on with Twitter? Yeah, no doubt. All right, well, let's get going. We've got a lot to do here. Cool, let me hide, hide. Are you good? All right, Jeff Beard, take it away. This show is brought to you by audience members like me, not outside organizations. To find out more, go to dailytechnewshow.com slash support. Hey folks, this is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, October 27th, 2016. I'm Tom Merritt, Justin Robert Young, alongside giving you color commentary to your technology life. Yeah, with underlining colorful speech that will bring the tech maybe a little bit more to the forefront of your life. Twitter comes to the plate. Twitter, of course, began with two different founders. Yeah, no, I don't know. I'm trying out new taglines here and there. October fever, you know, baseball fever's got me. Yeah, well, I mean, you wanna do like a 30 second of a World Series recap, two games in the books? I mean, no, I mean, there was one team that was good, one, one game. One game, yeah. Is that what you're after? We have a lot of Cleveland and Chicago people in the audience. No, I know, I know. It's actually been like, I'm rooting for a good game. Like I watched the full game yesterday and it's just rare for baseball these days, but... I'm rooting for Cleveland. Well, that's safe to say, right? But, you know, in case Cubs fans don't know, I'm a Cardinals fan. Oh yeah, also for the record, here's a Cubs fan. You know that you have gotten to Tom because he's gone from a brazen, reverse jinxing to just a refusing to mention the name Chicago Cup. After, we'll get to the tech news in just a second. I promise, I promise, I promise. My wife was laughing at me, though, because after the first game when Cleveland won, I saw someone with a big L flag flying and I was laughing. She's like, wow, you really are, you really, wow. Like she didn't, it really hit her that. Did you understand the W flag or whatever? No, no, she knew that. She just was stunned at how gleeful I was. Well, you were. Well, I listened. For Eileen, at least it wasn't a crying quote. That's right. All right, USFCC passed new rules requiring ISPs to get customer permission before sharing sensitive information like location, browsing history, and app usage, a lot of criticism that these are more restrictive than what the FTC requires from companies like Google and Facebook. Speaking of Facebook, Facebook adding Snapchat-like masks to Facebook Live broadcasts. If you're in the US, UK, and New Zealand, and you're using iOS, now here are some more top stories. Oh, Twitter. Twitter said Thursday it will cut 9% of its workforce in order to cut costs and hopefully become profitable in 2017. Twitter beat analysts' expectations on their revenue, reporting Q3 revenue up 8%, so the revenue rising is slowing, but it's still rising. 8%, it's 616 million ahead of an expected 605.8 million. Earnings of 13 cents a share, beating an expected nine cents a share. Total revenue grew 6% to 545 million. That's 90% from mobile at this point. Monthly active users. Remember, people were complaining like, well, how is Twitter gonna crack mobile? Seems like they've cracked mobile. Monthly active users is the thing they haven't cracked and it only grew 3% year over year to 317 million. In the earnings call, CFO Anthony Noto said the company is working on an event timeline, so something that could have tweets from the people you follow related to an event, things like that. Personalized tabs around things like sports teams or political parties. All of this would be powered by machine learning. CEO Jack Dorsey also said in an investor letter that Twitter has meaningful safety updates coming next month, and many of you already know this and you think I'm burying the lead, but Twitter also said on Thursday it will discontinue the Vine app in the coming months. A source told the Verge some of the Vine staff was laid off on Thursday. Part of that 9% that's gonna be cut. Twitter will keep the Vine postings in the Vine website online as a memorial, I suppose, after shutting the service down. Man, do it for the Vine, taking a very Halloween-appropriate horror overtone, huh? Do you think they thought if they announced it an hour before the Apple press conference that it might just get shuffled away in the enthusiasm? Equivalent of a Friday before a Monday holiday news dump. I think that they knew Vine. I mean, listen, Vine is something that on its, on Twitter is still a fairly viable, meme-worthy way of getting a message across. It never really showed the kind of growth that I think they wanted it to, and it really had its lunch eaten by Instagram when they finally introduced videos and by Snapchat for a lot of that very, very tiny content. However, Vine still seems at least like even today, like as we've now seen the flood of memorial that the best of Vine's kind of come back through Twitter, there's, it still seems like there's something there. It was just never going to succeed in the silo that it was in and with the UI that it had. The idea of it as, you almost wonder, in one of these Rick and Morty parallel universes in a world where Vines felt more like Snapchat stories, would Vine have done better than feeling like Instagram where it was post, post, post, post, something that Instagram itself is going away from with Instagram stories. Yeah, I think it's really interesting that Twitter didn't foster it more because there's no argument that usage is way down. A lot of the Vine stars, so-called, have quit Vine and moved on to other things and are being very successful, but the platform has become more of a bunch. So I get why they're shutting it down now, but it's still a thing that people loved and they wanted Twitter to make it better and they never did. Should it have just lived in Twitter? Should the- I always found it odd that it didn't integrate more closely with Twitter, that I couldn't just open Twitter and create a Vine. That always seemed that, I think that is one thing that they might have tried that they didn't. Because that's where, I mean, so much of what you see now, and this might be also part of it, is that when you see the Vines that have explosive growth now, very often are people shooting their televisions to record something that is going on on their television, which for Vine, who knows how much people want to chase down, copyright holders want to chase down copyrighted content, quote unquote, right? But in a world where the NFL is cracking down on their own team's social media accounts for posting video of the game that is happening, you could see maybe for them, it's like, well, look, NBA season's back, NBA loves Vines. Vine and NBA are things that go along very, very well together and yet they're only a letter from Adam Silver away at any moment from that kind of being taken away from them as well. So- I mean, it is telling that in a world where short video, Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook is huge, live video is huge that Twitter's shutting down its groundbreaking short video app. As simultaneously during this earnings call, they're like, hey, by the way, the NFL purchase was pretty good for us. We are video. Twitter is video, I mean, no, not this video. Not that short, not short video. That's a video, exclusive long form video. That is what we are in the market for. I do just want to touch on one more thing that you mentioned. The idea of machine learning tabs and events, Twitter's got a long road to hoe in terms of gaining market confidence in their ability to curate stuff. Events has been a total third nipple of a feature for them and I would be very curious to see where they can do something that people think is very useful straight out of the gate. Well, and what it looks like is they're saying, okay, we tried hiring people with really good news senses to create a really well-curated events tab, a really moments tab, whatever, and it didn't work. Let's make something that's personal to the people that says, hey, we can tell by your tweets that you're into the Republican Party or you're into the Democratic Party or Libertarian Green Party and so tabs just gonna show up. That says your favorite party, it says go Vikings and then you'll click in and find all of your favorite football teams' stories in there. I think if it's done right, and that's an if, that people will find it incredibly useful to say, oh, I love these little tabs and Twitter is very good at giving users the right amount of control so I'm gonna jump to the conclusion that they don't just suddenly populate it, that it's something that they onboard people too gracefully and you can control whether it's on or off or whatever but if it's there and people go, wow, this is really cool, like these are definitely things I'm interested in, that could be a defining feature for Twitter users rather than posters and that's, I think the bottom of all of this is Twitter is trying to figure out the dance of not losing their good posters while becoming a consumption vehicle rather than a creation vehicle. One last coda on all of this. Doesn't it kind of say, I mean, cause the story a few weeks ago, Twitter, the bell of the ball, Google wants to buy them, Salesforce wants to buy them, everyone's interested in buying Twitter, all of a sudden everybody scatters. This kind of feels like Twitter, all right, you wanna know what? Maybe we were angling toward this merger thing, maybe we counted on that, it didn't happen. Now it's time to get back on the treadmill, update the Tinder profile, put up a few new photos, like let's get back into shape here. Well, Dorsey has always been like, no, I can fix this, I can make us better, don't sell us and it's the board that's been the other way. So Dorsey at least for the moment is getting his way. There was the report yesterday that Disney is back to being interested in Twitter. That seems to have floated away on the wind in the wake of Twitter's earnings announcements. There doesn't seem to be as much heat to that light. Mark Benioff, who says things, by the way, said in an interview. He is a serial sayer of things. Yeah, yeah, he said in an interview that if only the board hadn't found out he was interested in Twitter, he might've got away with it. If it wasn't for those meddling kids on the board, who knows if that's actually true or not. So there are these flirtations that interest might still be out there. But this is the thing, right? Is that let's say Dorsey does turn it around. Is there any chance that the board will let him turn it around to the point where it won't get sold? Because the more attractive it becomes, the higher the price would be for it to get sold to somebody. That's the chess match that he's playing with his own board, it seems like. And the fact that they're leaning it out and making it more focused. Now we'll see whether or not what they wanna focus on is something that grows the platform. But it would seem like that's where this ends. Yahoo released its first transparency report, sends Reuters reported Yahoo conducted an email scanning program at the request to the US government. The report covers January through June of 2016. The scanning took place in spring of 2015. But Yahoo clarified it only reports on quote the total number of accounts which information was produced. In the first half of 2016, Yahoo received 12,666 spooky requests from government agencies worldwide focused on 2,511 user accounts. It disclosed content. 20,000. Or 20,511 user accounts. It disclosed content or data on 7,779 accounts and rejected or found no data for 4,889 requests. Yahoo received 4,709 requests from the US government targeting 9,408 accounts. It disclosed content in response to 24% of the requests. Yahoo owned Tumblr received 274 requests from governments worldwide. Now listening to all of those numbers, did you forget about the fact that they didn't say anything about the email scanning? Well, yeah, here's the thing. Email scanning was in 2015. The 2015 transparency report didn't have a big spike. And in this transparency report, they made clear we only report when information was produced. So yeah, okay, they haven't had a significant uptick in requests since 2015. That's the takeaway from this report. And it does imply that even if they were scanning all the emails, they didn't hand over a significant amount of information or you'd see a huge spike in accounts. I mean, at the background of all of this is the idea that there's only so much a company can say publicly about these kinds of programs without it being a legal problem for them like up to and including treason. So listen, they're in a weird position here. This is something that a lot of the Silicon Valley CEOs have been vexed about, certainly since Snowden at the very least, but I don't know. I mean, speaking of the soon to be married, do you think that this helps or hurts the dance now between Yahoo and Verizon? Yeah, I don't think this transparency report changes anything. I think what is most likely going on is Verizon is telling Yahoo, we still wanna buy you. You've gotta come down on the price though because we are getting goods that are damaged in a different way than we expected and we have to deal with that. Always looking for the bargain, Verizon. Costco Verizon, they call them. I know, can you hear me ask for a discount? Good, because I want one. Tesla announced its first quarterly profit in more than three years, helped by nearly 139 million in sales of clean car credits. Tesla's earnings report comes ahead of the November 17th vote on the acquisition of Solar City. So they wanted to make it look good and a lot of people are accusing them of shoving off expenses into the fourth quarter to make it look good. During the earnings call CEO Elon Musk described his vision for a self-driving car service called Tesla Network. Now this would be a ways in the future but it would let Tesla owners that had self-driving cars. So obviously Tesla cars have to be allowed to be self-driving cars for this to happen but it would allow Tesla owners to make extra money from their cars when they aren't using them. Tesla has said before, they won't let people use their Teslas as Uber cars and I guess they could do that with the terms of service somehow or maybe they just won't let you in the Tesla Network but the idea is in the future when a Tesla is approved to be a self-driving car on its own you could have that thing in your driveway during the day at work going out making money for you driving people around town. So we had a very interesting conversation about this on the weird things podcast that I do with Andrew Main and Brian Brushwood and I wondered at the point that this is viable and legally and culturally we are at least baseline cool with the idea of totally headless self-driving cars, right? So nobody else sitting in with their hands on the wheel just in case this is like exactly what you described. I go to work at Kraft and then I let my car go make money for me. I wonder if at that point we still think of cars in the same way that we're not, that we want to spend that much money on a car that we own and then also let it out so other people can rub their grimy little hands or do things to it that you would do in things where nobody else is watching, like I'm curious. It's not that I think this is a bad idea. I think it's a very good idea. I'm just curious to see how our brains and ideas shift about car ownership at the point that this is real. So there already are an equivalent to this with the systems that will say we'll give you free parking at the airport if you let us rent out your car to people while you're gone on your trip and not everybody wants to do that but some people do and I think that'll be the same here. Not every Tesla owner is going to want to do this. I get that. But if it shifts you over the edge, you're at the dealership and you're like, ah, gosh, I don't know what it'll be in the future where they have $45,000 for this car. That's a little bit of money and the sales associate points out like, yeah, but do you work eight hour a day? Would you be able to allow this to go out and drive for you during the day? We've got this amazing lock box system that can keep it nice and clean, et cetera. The Tesla network will ensure you, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Which by the way, Tesla already does. If you go to buy a Tesla, Tesla will tell you a price that is not the actual price that you have to pay because they are figuring in how much you will save on gas over a 10 year span. They will already gonna do that sort of sales as it is. Right, and so that'll push people to buy a Tesla because they want one who otherwise wouldn't be able to justify the expense. But here's the problem that Tesla's going to face with this because Lyft faces it now, right? It is, you need to have X amount of, you need a mass of cars on the road. So when somebody opens your app, they know within five minutes there is a car that can get to you and bring you to where you need to go. Right, like that's just, you know, there's the reason why Uber does not get out commercials for, hey, use our app, it's great. They buy commercials that say, hey, drive with Uber because they need people on the road, the app in and of itself, they assume. Yeah, so will you get enough Tesla cars? Will you get enough? I don't know. But this is all, speaking of Benioff being a serial saver of things. For sure. Certainly, what's his money, where his mouth is? Plenty of times, as does Benioff, this is not to criticize them, but certainly part of their charm is that they will lay out their grand vision at a moment's notice. Especially if on the earnings call, most of the analysts want to ask about the upcoming solar city merger. You want to talk about things that'll make them want to ask about other things. You are. Nintendo president, Tetsumi, I'm going to get killed for mispronouncing this name. How do you mispronounce it? How do I mispronounce it as Kimishima? Okay, so Tetsumi Kimishima. Told financial analyst Thursday that more information on the Switch console will come on January 12th in Tokyo. The Nintendo Switch presentation 2017 will reveal the system's launch date pricing and game lineup with the playable demos available on the 13th and 14th in Tokyo. The event will be live streamed. This is so very Nintendo in so many ways. First of all, stop asking us questions about the Switch until January 12th. That's when you're gonna get more information is part of the message here. The other is, no, we're not gonna try to do anything in the holiday season, January 12th. And the other thing is having a live stream for their fans to be able to watch the presentation has become the Nintendo tradition. I think the odd thing is that it sounds like they'll actually have people in an actual audience in Tokyo that they'll be presenting to as well. Yeah, I mean, we had a great conversation last week with Beja about what their idea of, you know, listen, you miss a holiday season that's never ideal. They wanna make sure that they launch this with the right amount of games out of the gate. I think that seems to be, you know, hey, listen, go through all your holiday parties, gain that extra 10 pounds, and right with your New Year's resolution, you can go ahead and throw down by a Nintendo Switch because they're going to want to own 2017, which is probably why watching the World Series last night, I saw 90 commercials for Red Dead Redemption 2, which comes out in a year. I've never, I mean, this is a total side-jack. Have you ever seen a game promoted like that, like a year out? No, I kept thinking about that too, because I was like, oh yeah, Red Dead Redemption 2, that's a good game. You know, I wonder if I'll have time to play it. And then I remember like, who knows, that's a year from now. I mean, I get the pumping the Twitter stuff, online, the social media stuff, because that's where your hard, hard, hardcore fans are. You can drip, drip, tease them forever, like they do with movies. The idea, I mean, even a movie, there's not gonna be running of- No, you don't advertise a movie that far in advance. You don't. Even Star Wars Force Awakens. Not a year. Was not a, I guess it was teased the Thanksgiving before it came out. So it was more than a year, but wow. Yeah, they didn't do a television campaign for it. No, by prime time ads, they're a major sporting event. But the other thing that this connects to is the report earlier this week that Nintendo was telling investors they expect to sell two million Nintendo Switches in the first quarter, which ends in March. And they have said that the Nintendo Switch will come out in March. So I think if that's what they're thinking, they expect to open pre-orders on January 12th or very soon thereafter. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Business Insider obtained documents that indicate Amazon has a grand vision. According to these documents, Amazon plans to open 20 grocery stores in the United States over the next two years and believes there's an opportunity to open up 2,000 Amazon fresh stores over the next several years, over the next 20 years. Amazon fresh pilot program stores would open by the end of 2018 in places like Seattle, Las Vegas, New York, Miami and the Bay Area. 10 of the stores would be 10,000 square foot locations where you would just drive up and pick up orders made online, more of your drive through situation. The other 10 would be 30,000 square feet stores that you would go into with a shopping cart, a more traditional type. Amazon is also considering combo versions of these stores. It's unclear if Amazon Prime or Amazon Prime Fresh would be required for you to shop at these stores. The documents proposed a launch schedule of 200 stores a year supported by New Distribution Centers. Geekwire has previously reported on an Amazon grocery store that seems to be under construction in Ballard, Washington. That's 25 minutes from downtown Seattle. I am an Amazon Fresh devotee. I love Amazon Fresh. I get it probably twice a week. I very much love it and appreciate it. And unlike other Amazon physical locations for which I've been fairly bearish on, I mean, if they want to do, I think the bookstore made sense because they are in a fight with publishers and they want to give things to authors that say, hey, look, we can do everything that a publisher can do. We'll even build our own bookstores so you can feel good about walking in and understanding that you're going to do. And do a book signing and get front shelf location. It's a little bit of a loss leader for Amazon, but it's a loss leader that makes sense. But it makes sense for the war they are fighting there. This is a different beast because if you are going to be warehousing live, or that live produce, but a perishable produce, right? Things that will go back, squid. Then it makes sense. The more you scale it up, the more you are going to leave yourself in the wind if all of a sudden people aren't into plum tomatoes anymore. So you want to give the biggest chance that you can always be moving that kind of produce. And that's what I think this is about. This is about the fresh element of it. And they've seen enough growth in the distribution stuff, which is what I'm a part of here in the Bay Area. But it makes sense to me for them to do this because very specifically of the product that they are selling. Yeah, I think you're right. Amazon knows this is a very thin margin business. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's at least one or two of you out there who are in the grocery business and know the challenges that they'll face. And so they would have to consider this at scale to make it worth their while at all. It is a testament to the tenacity, the ability to risk thin profit margins and the potential opportunity they see that they're willing to do that. I think it's fascinating. And if it means that in the Bay Area, I can get same day fresh delivery, I'll be even more excited. Because as it is now, you got to get it the day after. It's not a way to a day for those heirloom tomatoes. I mean, listen, but here the prices are cheap, which is very interesting because now, you know, Amazon to me took money out of Whole Foods Pockets. I have a Whole Foods right around the corner. I don't go to Whole Foods anymore because I can get what I. Well, that's a lot of money because Whole Foods ain't cheap. Exactly. Verizon, remember them? They announced on Wednesday that they will acquire video service vessel. Remember that? That's fine if you don't. It originally launched in 2015. Verizon plans to use vessels product and technology, but will shut down the existing service as part of the acquisition vessel CTO Richard Tom will join Verizon's digital entertainment efforts in the same role. The acquisition is expected to close within 30 days. For those unaware, Vessels business model was allowing people to subscribe to their favorite YouTube channels and see new posts a few days before they would go up on the channel itself. Yeah, so you wouldn't subscribe to YouTube. In fact, I was a competitor to YouTube, but they would get the YouTube creators to come post their stuff to Vessel and make money off subscriptions. Jason Clark, former CEO of Hulu, it was his brainchild to say, let me take everything I learned at Hulu and apply it to YouTube creators. And it was an interesting gambit. You could say it didn't work because it's gonna get shut down, or you could say it worked great because they're selling to Verizon. Yeah, I mean, it seems as if the business model isn't selling to Verizon. The tech, you know, Jason Calar's team is selling to Verizon, right? It is the thing that's going to prop up Go90, another video venture that this time from Verizon that people wonder if there's any potential for success there. So I don't know. Jason Calar, by the way, he will go with the acquisition, but he said he won't be sticking around for very long. Do you think that they're gonna take all those deals? Like, are the deals with the creators part of it? That is a very good question. Obviously they're not taking the deals as they exist because they're shutting down the service. Will they be able to leverage this to bring some of those creators to Go90? I would imagine that's part of the attractiveness of this deal. We shall see. Thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit, submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. All right, folks. Many of you have been waiting to hear us talk about the Apple stuff. Others of you have been waiting so that you could stop listening because we're talking about the Apple stuff. So make sure it exchanges now. Basically two big announcements. They're bringing a new app to Apple TV called the TV app. This seems to be the thing they wanted to launch with a live television service that Apple has never been able to come together. So instead, it's an app that brings together all your apps on Apple TV and makes them easily accessible by show in one interface. Now they have HBO now, they have Showtime on board. They don't seem to have Netflix on board as yet. The bigger announcement was, of course, the new MacBook Pros. And the big attractive feature of the new MacBook Pros was the touch bar. This replaces the function keys across the top and changes based on the software so it can surface menu items that you'd otherwise have to right click to get to certain controls. They made a big deal with Photoshop and Final Cut, how you'd be able to do editing with the capacitive touch, the multi-touch sliding things around. You can imagine that in a video timeline or being able to reposition a photo. Touch bar is a retina display. It's multi-touch, responds to gestures and taps. And Apple has added touch ID to the right of the touch bar. So you can actually turn on your computer with your fingerprint and it will automatically log you in. They showed off a lot of programs using this, but it is, of course, up to the third-party apps to implement both the touch ID and the touch bar. Although Microsoft Office is apparently going to do touch bar as is Skype. Tom, do you want to touch my touch bar? Let's just get that out of the way right now. Yeah, this is rife with amusing anecdotes because it's called the touch bar for many, many reasons. And we made some of them at our patron's slack this morning. The fact of the matter is, this touch bar looks really interesting. Roger and I were talking before the show that it feels a little like you showed us this, I like it, your argument that the function keys, date back to the 70s and aren't needed anymore is good. The fact that I can actually press the function key, which is sticking around that FN key in the bottom left and get that function keys back if I need them for some reason is good. I'm all in on the touch bar. They spent way more time talking about the touch bar than was necessary to convince me to the point where I was like, okay, you guys, I get it, I don't think it's gonna be quite as good as you think it's gonna be, but it's all right. Honestly, all they had to do, Justin, was tell me we have new laptops available with larger hard drives, more Core i7 processors and a good amount of RAM. And honestly, that was all I needed. Touch bar is interesting. I'm good that they have Thunderbolt 3 in there because that allows USB-C, which means it's future proof because it's the same port. But yeah, this is not a stunning laptop, but when you've gone four years between updates, it's a pretty good update. I mean, well, because that's the thing, is that ultimately if you are a power user and you prefer the Mac ecosystem, this is just a thing that is long overdue, right? And it seems as if, based on how much time they spent on the touch bar, that part of the reason why this has been delayed so long is I would take a wild guess that internally they've been agonizing over one thing. Touch screens. What should be interactive? What should not? And what appears to have happened is that Apple, the company that really popularized multi-touch touch screens on a level that we had not previously seen with the kind of popularity that it had with the iPhone and the iPad, has decided that when it comes to a laptop, you should not be smudging up this retina display with your grubby little mitts. Instead, it would be more functional if everything happened at the keyboard level. And even all the functionality of a touch screen, the fact that it changes, it can mean different things. It is responsive to the app that you're using. That should be closer to your fingers and the activator should be the touchpad below it as opposed to what's happening right up there. And that, to me, is what their whole this has gone on too long by your accounts of running up and down to this was this was them litigating that case. That they know that this is going to be the conversation is that surface as a touch screen, we do not. And this is why. We wanna show you in intricate detail why on everything, and to me, it was no clearer than in the Photoshop where it was like, look, here's an image. If your hand is in front of the image, you are not doing the same kind of professional work that you can do on this, where all of your tools are right there where you would normally be interacting with a laptop. So that's what I found most fascinating about specifically how long they took on that. And that two-handed approach was one of the few times where during the demonstration I looked up and said, okay, that's a use case I hadn't anticipated and I like it, where you could use the touch pad, which by the way is twice as big as the track pad had been on the previous Mac generation to do things on Photoshop while you're using the touch bar to control sizes and things like that. That is a very natural two-handed way to do something that I think is pretty clever. At the same time, it's not the same as a touch screen. They're basically just saying, you don't want to touch your screen on a laptop and maybe they're right. Apple tends to be right about those things that we think we want, that maybe we don't. But they are definitely putting their flag in the ground and saying no touch screens for laptops while Microsoft and everyone else are saying absolutely touch screens in laptops. That's what people want. So here we go with another one of those battles to fight out and find out who's right. The other interesting thing about this announcement was we see them throwing shade on their own MacBook Air. There is now only one 13-inch MacBook Air available, starts at $999. They did not introduce a new MacBook Air. They introduced a new MacBook Pro that doesn't have the touch bar and made a big deal about how this cheaper 13-inch MacBook Pro is way thinner and lighter than the MacBook Air. I think that that's the final gong for the Air, right? Is that the idea of we're going to sell you this. Hey, guess what, guys? It's the super thin and light laptop, as was so well evidenced by Steve Jobs coming out with the Manila envelope and is a Grinch like grin on his face as he pulled it out so eloquently. We're done with that. I think Apple wants to be out of that from here on out. All the most powerful laptops are the lightest laptops and they want to collapse that vertical a little bit. And as far as the MacBook Pros go, Radeon Pro GPU in the 15-inch and i7 16 gigs of RAM, the 13-inch you can get with i5 or i7, 8 gigs of RAM, they're both light, 13 inches, three pounds, 15 inches, four pounds. And the thing that I think probably will cause some discussion out there is they just went with four Thunderbolt 3 ports on these. Now there's also that cheaper 13-inch MacBook Pro that doesn't have the touch bar, has the regular function keys. That one has two Thunderbolt 3 ports, but they basically said Thunderbolt 3 is our way future because you can plug a USB-C cable into it without an adapter and that's where everyone is going. That's true across the board. And Thunderbolt 3 can support with an adapter, DisplayPort, HDMI, et cetera. The one thing they're losing is the SD card slot, but you can get an adapter that goes SD card slot into Thunderbolt 3 or USB-C and be just fine. And a headphone jack, right? Oh yeah, that's right. No, Barry the lead, huh? 3.5 millimeter headphone jack sticking around, folks. They're like, hey listen, we got more space. We got more space on this boat, you know? That's gonna be an interesting dance. They're gonna get rid of that headphone jack on the laptop. I is my prediction. Of course, yeah. It may not be next year, it may not be, it may be the year after, but they are going to and how do they do the dance of going from lightning headphones to USB-C headphones? Because those ports need an adapter to be able to. I think that they're hoping that in the next two years we are just inundated. We're just wireless. Good Bluetooth. Maybe they'll ship the AirPods at some point that are now delayed. I mean, theoretically, right? I was actually, I've actually found myself kind of excited about the AirPods. I kind of want the AirPods in my life and I can't buy them. But listen, Beats Audio just rolled out a huge Christmas-timed lineup with a star-studded ad for all of the various USB solutions that, sorry, Bluetooth solutions that they're going to have coming forward. I think for Apple, at the rate that they refresh these things, they're saying that, listen, the next time we touch these is either going to be in two years or in three years. And at that point, all the best headphones are going to be Bluetooth and we'll probably be giving away Bluetooth headphones with our, we'll have the AirPods, the Air Buds. Air Buds, golden AirPods. Air Pods, we'll have those with the iPhone at that point. So it'll be less of an issue. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Apple also used an LG 5K display to demonstrate how the 15-inch MacBook Pro could run two 5K displays at once. Phil Schiller called the LG display the ultimate docking station, also indicating that Apple's not in the marketplace to put out a brand new synod display anytime soon. So do you think that this is officially the end of forever? I mean, and you've been at this game for a long time, Tom, but the Apple TV, not the box. Oh, the television set, yeah. That was always tied to the fact that they had great pride in their cinema displays. I feel like we're done, like we can officially throw the last handful of dirt on that rumor, right? Yeah, I never really bought that they wanted to create an actual television and maybe they considered it, but it just never felt right to me. Apple TV as a device that you can plug into whatever you want, seems like a better bet for them. And it is kind of today as the sad ending of that television dream, right? There's no live service. They finally put out the TV app, but it just kind of works with some apps. And there's no television. In fact, there's no cinema display. They're up there with an LG 5K display. Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that there's, you wanna move on to the TV thing? Yeah, let's talk about that real quick as our last bit. It's a nice app. It's a little confusing. I was trying to explain it to Eileen earlier today. She's like, so it's an app that launches other apps? Why do I need that? I just wanna go into the app. And I'm like, well, the convenience is if you watch shows in HBO Now and Hulu and CBS All Access, then, which we do actually, then it will have all those shows in one interface. So you just launch the TV app and it'll say, hey, New Mindy project is on Hulu. Oh, there's a new Star Trek over there on CBS All Access and the latest Game of Thrones is up on HBO Now, which one do you wanna watch? You'll see all your shows together. For that to work, that works great. I love that. I love that as a kind of a front end interface. This is that universal search where I have to stop thinking about which service I'm subscribed to and just watch the shows I wanna watch. It's gotta have Netflix and it's gotta have Sling TV and it's gotta have Amazon. And it might get those first two I mentioned. It's not getting Amazon. Well, I mean, at some point we're gonna find out whether or not Nixon can go to China on that, right? Like, you know, I think that eventually there's some world in which Apple and Amazon can come to an agreement on money because primarily this is about, Amazon works on incredibly thin margins. They are fierce about the price that they are going to look to pay to their partners. Apple is fierce about holding the line on things. I think that there is eventually a deal that can be made there. But let's focus on what you said earlier. I really like my Apple TV. I understand that Apple, and I don't blame them, does not wanna be beholden to the absolute crap nuts UI that comes in on every service that pops up every five seconds. Cause by the way, we are not even, we have not yet begun to enter the world of I watch my entertainment on a million different apps. I found out the other day on Sling TV that I have ABC. I didn't even realize it because it's at the end of my little live guide thing. Like it's just that they want you to be able to interact with your apps in a way that isn't insanely confusing. Cause if people like who are listening to this show find it confusing and find it hard to find exactly what they want. Or for me, listen, I root for the Syracuse Orange. They're not a good football team. I don't know whether or not it's on television, let alone on a service that I get in my cord cutting lifestyle. If I have an easy way as they demonstrated to just say, hey, put on the Syracuse Orange. Yeah, you can just ask Siri that very question and it will now respond. And it'll go now we're kind of cooking. And I know that there are similar things on Roku and everything, but Apple wants to be the place where everybody comes to play. They wanna have the future be apps, but they don't want you to have to to forage through whatever random UI decisions, these entertainment companies, not computing companies decide to make and they wanna give it to you in an easier way. I think it's good, but and here's the, you know, I like big butts and I cannot lie. This needs Amazon or say this needs Netflix 110%. I was kind of surprised that it didn't launch with it. Yeah, no, it absolutely does. And I think what Apple looks at, it says, well, you can fill in the gaps with iTunes, right? We're gonna have iTunes store on there so you can buy the shows you can't get because the app isn't there. You aren't gonna wanna buy Netflix shows from iTunes because Netflix is on your Apple TV but not integrated into the TV. So that deal has to happen for this to not be dead on arrival. Let's get to our pick of the day from Mike Kepper, analyst, DTNS analyst in Heron, Illinois, has an app that shows you what cellular network you're using on Project Phi. If you're a Google Project Phi subscriber and shows you the strength, same for Wi-Fi networks, you can use it to switch to a better signal. If you're like, hey, wait a minute, you selected T-Mobile, but it looks like Sprint has a better signal here. Mike says he used to use it for that a lot in the early days of Project Phi, but it has gotten better at selecting the stronger signal these days. It's available on the app store. You can go and take a look. We'll have a link in the show notes. It's called Signal Spy. That's great. Send your picks to us, folks. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. You can find more picks at DailyTechNewsShow.com slash picks. By the way, in case you didn't know, we do a show called Daily Tech Headlines, DailyTechHeadlines.com. All the headlines, all the essential news of the day in less than 10 minutes for folks who just wanna keep up on all the stuff. Some people listen to it and DailyTech News Show because we take slightly different approaches. Other people just use it when they fall behind, but you can now get it on your Amazon Echo as a flash briefing. Be careful. Tom, be careful. We've gotten bad reviews because we've been triggering these things. Be careful about how you say this. I'm not gonna say the trigger word for Amazon Echo, but if you say your trigger word, whatever it is for your Amazon Echo, and then the words enable DailyTechHeadlines skill, that's all you need to do. DailyTechHeadlines is installed, and I'll tell you the headlines every day in less than 10 minutes. Big thanks to Sergeant Muffin and BioCal who helped out on this, and huge thanks to TinVec, AKA Alex Hanna in our audience who coded the skill and shepherded it through Amazon's development tool. Also shout out to Becky at Amazon who helped us out there as well. Oh my God, Becky. Let me just say this. Tom, in the pre-show, he did, he said the words. I said the word. That we're not gonna say here. She must not be named. It was so easy that it automatically loaded on my Amazon Echo that is right here in the studio. From hundreds of miles away. From hundreds of miles away. In fact, I almost feel like you should just say it at the very end of the show. You should just so you could just burn up the volume. Y'all just say it, the word, and then enable Daily Tech headline skill. It's all you gotta say. It's all you gotta say. It's very easy. Justin, Robert Young, what you got going on? Oh, jeez, I'll tell you what. We've actually had a really interesting run of shows on the Politics Politics Podcast. We had a little interview with, or actually no, it was a debate, a real debate between your friend and your friends and mine, Brian Brushwood and Jeff Kanata. If you're familiar with their work from either DLC and Totally Rad Show and everything else that Jeff does, or for Brian with Night Attack and Scam School and Modern Rogue, and you follow them on Twitter, you'll understand that they like to go back and forth with these very lengthy political discussions that are usually a little bit more heady than necessarily I like this candidate, I like this candidate. It's a lot about whether you should vote. It's morally okay to not vote. When is abstaining okay? What is a crisis that needs an immediate reaction? That kind of stuff. So I decided, you wanna know what? Let's just go ahead and push the couches back and let these boys settle it once and for all. So we brought them both on the Politics Politics Podcast. I was the moderator and I think it was a really, really, really great discussion. I mean, I have very specific ideas on my personal philosophy on voting and stuff and I heard arguments that I had never really heard before out of both guys who I've talked to about these issues before. So I'm very proud of that. It's in the Politics Politics Feed. It's politicspoliticspolitics.com if you wanna get it and tomorrow I'm gonna be talking to my BitTorrent News colleague question mark in italics. Who knows whether or not there's still a BitTorrent News? We'll keep you updated on that. But Michael Shore who covered the conventions with me for BitTorrent News is gonna come on and we're gonna talk everything elections. He is somebody that is so plugged in, so smart and has such a great historical mind for this stuff. I'm very excited to kind of look back on maybe one of the wildest presidential elections we've ever had. Thank you to everybody who supports Daily Tech News Show. There's so many ways to do it. DailyTechnewshow.com slash support. Big welcome to brand new patron Kenny Roderick and huge thanks to Gary Ludwig, Carolyn Haynes and Adam Burke who all raised their pledge. You guys are the best as are every single one of our patrons at patreon.com slash DTNS. Our email address is feedback at DailyTechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern. AlphaGeekRadio.com and DiamondClub.tv and our website is DailyTechnewshow.com. Back tomorrow with Darren Kitchen and Len Peralta. Talk to you then. Who is part of the Frog Pants Network? Get more at frogpants.com. DiamondClub hopes you have enjoyed this program. Good show. Yeah. But what should we call it? Let's go ahead and see Shobot. Roger Chang, show me Shobot. End of the Vime? Yes, we can hear you. Praise the Lord. Pass the ammo. End of the Vime? Get it? Get it? Yeah, now I get it. But that's an end of the line pun, right? I mean, shouldn't like dying on the Vime or death on the Vime? I mean, it's end of the line for Vime but they're also dying on the Vime. With the ring on the Vime? I don't know. I want to go to the touch bar. That's uncomfortable. Your six seconds of fame died on the Vime, wither does it, wither on the Vime was the fourth one. Amazon gets fresh in 20 cities. But Biocow is amazing. I don't know if it would even be, like that's almost like false advertising to talk as much as we did about the MacBook, all the Apple announcements and Vime and the headline would be Amazon Fresh coming. Is Apple in touch with its users? Twitter killed the Vime star, let me see. Wait, Twitter's third nipple? Not sure. Yeah, that's all, no, Justin called it. Yeah, that was my reference to moments. Stop Vimey, how do you mispronounce Verizon sees the vessel as half full? She seems to have a digital touch bar. Looking for, I like that flexing and cannot buy. She seems to have a digital touch bar. I don't know, end of the Vime seems to be pretty good. Yeah, I'll go with that, although. Want to go to the touch bar is pretty good too. Yeah. Well, I mean, I would say, Tom, you should make, but what is ultimately the bigger story? Vime dying for... Well, yeah, I think it's one of those two. I think honestly, we could go either way. I think if we want to go crassly for attention, it's Apple, it's always Apple. Apple will always get you more people looking at your things. But if you want to go like evaluative on what did we dig into and what was big news, arguably Vime is a bigger, bigger news than Apple. We knew Apple was going to announce MacBooks and they did. Yeah. So I consider them kind of even. If I had to pick, if you're putting me up against the wall and saying which topic I'd pick Apple just because more people will look. So touch bar, want to go to the touch bar? I don't know. That's so creepy. Yeah, and I got a touch bar. I got a touch bar for you. Is Apple in touch with its users? It's not a question we asked, but does... I think they wanted to add the touch. Yeah, yeah. Does cleverly work in touch. The one thing I will say about the touch bar is the first time in a while that I've watched an Apple announcement and I've been like, oh, wow, that's cool. Like that looks... Yeah, even though we saw that leak from Mac OS Sierra, still seeing it in action, I was like, oh yeah. I didn't see that. It was cool for the first maybe four or five minutes and then they just was beaten a dead horse. Like we get it. It's useful, it has functionality. What else can you tell us about this amazing machine that you've carved out of a single block of aluminum ore? I mean, I feel like, but that's a very, that's a very Roger Chang, like really. But I mean, they were so... We got it, wrap it up, wrap it up. It's like, you know, they could have done so much more, for example, with the Thunderbolt 3, right? Other than just showing up slides. It's like, listen, now you have a port that allows you to literally plug anything into it, you know, with an adapter. You don't have to like, oh, I don't have that port. I mean, there was so much to that. Yeah, I think they understood the future proofness of it. Or how, yeah. They did the whole Shiller thing, right? That was the whole point of the like, hey, well, let's plug in two gigantic displays, plus... Yeah, I guess so. Radaray stuff, like that was, I think that was... That's a good point. Yeah, but, you know, I guess so, but really what they should have done is, hey, look, it's a notebook that can serve as your main content creation machine when you get to the office, plug into this dock, everything lights up like the human torch when you're done, you stick in your, you know, courier bag and you can, you know, finish up emails or do some light editing on the subway. I mean, it's just, I don't know. It just seemed a lot of time was dedicated to the touch bar because someone... Because the touch bar is going to go, it's going to be a lead story on television news. It's going to be on the front page of newspapers. Like when they have those events, instead of just announcing them or having them done very quietly, it's because they want Rando's to look at a big flashy thing and say, wow, big flashy things. I love that. I mean, you know how I'm going to describe that to anyone over the age of 65? It's like, think of it kind of like a ticker tape, stock market thing, and then, yeah, you can have buttons that go with, I mean, it's cool, but it's also not as game-changing as I think that Apple makes it out to be. I mean, it's great and it's awesome, but it's at the same time, it's really just visually replacing what you used to use the function keys for other than being able to do the multi-touch. Sure, I mean, I think that there is a little bit of a difference, especially in its ability to scroll and like the idea. Well, they were really stretching the usage scenarios as well. I mean, you're not DJing with that little bit of technology, like you're going to get out some giant turntable interfaces that you plug in because if your livelihood is like rocking the house, you're not going to be doing these two things with like, you know, two- I don't know, man. I have seen quite a few DJ setups that are literally just a laptop. Like, I don't think that that's, I mean, like, you know, that's necessarily- And I'm sure they macro out keys on the laptop so they're not literally going, I mean, look at how many things he had to go through just to get to the one thing he wanted. I mean, dude, I'm not saying that they're not stretching out to show every ounce of possibility in the Dutch bar. And I think that that is- You know what? The one thing they didn't do, they should have showed it paired with an Apple watch and then like a little EKG meter on it. Dun-dun, dun-dun. So you can tell you're still alive when you're working on your MacBook. I mean, well- I'm such a jerk. I'm such a jerk. What is very interesting about it though is that idea of like, okay, they don't like touch screens on laptops. Like, it was like, it's been one of those things that as they've shown up everywhere else, it's been almost conspicuous by the absence for Apple considering the fact that, I mean, hell, they look, you know, a MacBook monitor looks like an iPad, right? Like it looks like it should be an iPad. It has that same like kind of a feeling to it. So I think it was, you're right, it's not game-changing, but it is them officially kind of saying, no, we walk down this path now. If you want to touch screen, congratulations. We make the best touch screen. They're called iPads. If you want to call power, it's an iPad Pro. They definitely want to keep the Richard markers between other product lines, because they need you to have a reason to buy both of those, right? No, Apple doesn't worry about cannibalization though. I think there's- They just killed the MacBook Air. Yeah, I think there's something else going on where they look at it and they legitimately say, we could put a touch screen in there, but if we did, we'd have to sacrifice these other elements or raise the price too far and we don't think it's worth it. If it was worth it, they would do it. I think they look at it and they say, people think they want touch screens, but they don't really. This is a different use case. If you want to touch screen, get an iPad. You can put a keyboard on it if you really want. That's the use case for a touch screen. The laptop is still a valid use case. That's my guess on how they look at it. Yeah, I think that they look at it like, if you want a touch screen so bad, you don't want a laptop. You might think you want a laptop, but that's a vestige of a bygone era. You just want a tablet. Yeah. I go back and forth because I have a Surface Book Pro and every once in a while it's pretty cool that I could pull that thing off and use it as a tablet, but every once in a while, probably isn't enough to justify the power consumption issues and the price that I had to pay for it and this and that. So I go back and forth because it is pretty handy and I do wish that my Mac would do the same thing sometimes. I get in the habit of it. No, I think it's curious that they've... Look to the children. They touch your MacBooks all the time thinking they should do it. They do. My kid touches the TV thinking it does something. Like, I could do this on your phone and then she just touches the TV. Doesn't do anything. Yeah. Although I also think that the MacBook Pro, they want it to be the professionals machine, right? Like, that is their use case for it. And I think what they sold each time is like vocations. Are you a graphic designer? You want the touch bar. Are you a video editor? You want the touch bar? Because this is, you know, touch screen is a gimmick. This is a tool. And I think that Microsoft did a better job of that yesterday. Yes. No, I was about to say that. Apple's pitch there was a little odd. It felt like all we have to do is show you a few programs and you get it. And Microsoft did a great job of saying, you're a creator. You want to do all these different kinds of things. Here's how the Surface and the Surface Studio can help you do that. Or Windows 10 creators update can help you do that. Well, but also the onus is on Microsoft a little bit more with that sphere. Because they're motivated to make a comeback. Yeah. Definitely. So, you know, I think for Apple, they're just like, hey, I don't know, we're creative. I mean, yeah, do you want to write it off in your taxes or do you not? Just go ahead and buy it. Like, come on. Pro in the name. It's just like Home Depot Pro. When you buy lumber from there, you can deduct it. By the way, there was a woman today watching it. So I'm watching it on my Apple TV, right? I've got my Apple watch on. I've got my iPhone 7 with me that I'm waiting for the day that when they do that big price announcement, right? And it's available now. And if you look right now on your iPhone, we have blasted out a message because we know you're watching on your Apple TV. And if you have the app installed there, you have the app installed on your phone, you can just literally press one button and have it coming to your house in the next two days. Like, I'm waiting for that moment where they make just one click buying when everybody is literally at their fraviest watching those things. It's got like an auction. Like, oh, I gotta get one now. Click. Well, and that was kind of an interesting point when they sort of brought in that third MacBook Pro that doesn't have the touch bar to say, hey, this one pretty much replaces a MacBook Air. And by the way, you can have this one shipping to you today. You can order it today and have a chip today. Whereas the other ones are gonna take two to three weeks because they're new. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's, they just know that that one's gonna be a killer, right? And so it's like, whatever, we'll just tack that on at the end. And, you know, because we know that when people who just hear about this that go to apple.com, so many of them are gonna pick it because, you know, he will need the touch bar sold to them. They don't need. Why do I need to pay extra for the touch bar? Yeah. Then they can get to use up the rest of the components they bought to crank out airs. Well, and it goes back to what I was saying about all they needed to do is put out a new laptop really. And that's kind of what that model is. It's like, hey, and if you're like Tom Merritt saying all we need to do is put out a new laptop, here you go. Here's a new laptop. Who says we don't listen to you? It's amazing how quickly the laptop has become kind of the mainstream computing device replacing the desktop. Like before, like, if you were serious about doing something, you'd get a desktop and now it's just the laptop. What's your favorite vine of all time, guys? Twizzlers. Twizzlers vine, not red vines. Oh, red vines. Yes, red vines. I don't do candy much. No, he's talking about Twitter, the vine. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Ah, I don't know. Something funny with a dog, I guess. I can't think of one. I honestly can't think of the last time I even looked at vine. They're so ephemeral. It's like you don't ever remember them, remember them. You know, there are two that immediately popped into my head. You know, there's the one of Chris Christie when he had first endorsed Donald Trump. And Donald Trump is talking and they just kind of slowly zoom in on him while the curb your enthusiasm music starts playing. That one, I continuously find amazing. And the one that I tweeted out, which I think is just the best vine of all time, is a super cut of one of Alex Jones's rants about Donald Trump charging into a goblin's nest, which I don't even want to, I don't think I should even talk, say what he mentions, but find it on my Twitter. But made by Gawker, the vine made by Gawker. How young we were back when both of them existed. Remember the mid teens when you could watch Vine on Gawker? Yeah, when Gawker was in the vine. Those are the days. The days of Vine and Gawker. Man, yeah, those just suddenly this year became defining elements of the early part of this decade. Yeah, you know, it's one of those. We are in, winter is coming, Tom. Winter is coming. You know, some people have lived all their life with Vine. They've grown up with it. Yeah, we're steaming towards the latter half of this decade. And I still don't know what the last decade's defining characteristics were there. Is that just because I'm getting old? Like they all just seem to blend now. I like the nineties is the last thing I can put my finger on. I mean, this is really, you know, the last decade seems like it began with 9-11 and it ended with Obama, like the election. The election, yeah, yeah. It's the Bush decade, like the Reagan years or the A's, yeah. You know, recession, war, like I think that that's where, but you also got the kind of the beginnings of, really, I mean, this industry, you know, the tech industry becoming, you know, where was hostfirst.com boom, right? The idea that Silicon Valley was really just like the most talked about influential economic sector of America seemed like a more dubious thing than it does now when it's like, no, there's like gigantic generational wealth here that like even as, you know, these web 1.0 companies, sure they're beleaguered, right? Like, you know, Yahoo is trying to still gussie themselves up so a cell phone company will buy them, but it's like, it's a gigantic company. It's a massive, massive, massive company. So I think that's really the big, you know, it was war, economic hardship and Apple things. Can we look back and say, oh, that those clothes are so 2000s? Yeah, like I'd... No, but you really need to be two decades out. Yeah, I guess you're right. It took a while for the 90s to really... Now we can pick out 90s clothes, right? Very puffy and flannily and yeah, all right. And it was like, but that's weird because I feel like we could have picked out 80s clothes in the 90s because 80s clothes were just so ridiculous. They were over the top. Yeah. 80s hairstyles kind of bled into the 90s more than I thought. I've been watching Twin Peaks, which is 91. And it's like, wow, yeah, that hair is still... Well, there's also the rumor that decades also, or not a rumor, there's a theory that culturally, decades really begin on the fives. So 95 makes more sense than... And like, 05 to 15 make more sense, 85 and 95. I mean, it's all perceptual anyway, right? I mean, it's all nonsense. Yeah. All of you are just a part of my imagination anyway. Oh my God, speaking of that idea, anybody else read the Pat Nozwal New York Times thing? Uh-uh. Man, it's pretty depressing, but it's poetic. He talks all about how he's been doing since his wife died, how he found his wife, found out his wife. Here's how heartbreaking. She had been working on this book because she wrote true crime books, right? Okay. She'd been working on this book about a dude who murdered a bunch of people in California and felt that she was very close to finding out who he was, that he was still alive and was close to finding out who he was and became obsessive about it. Took, you know, she started to have, you know, some health issues, she felt like really tired. So Pat Nozwal tells her, hey, you need one of those nights where you just sleep until you wake up. Like, don't worry about anything. I'll take the kid to school. You just go to sleep. And, you know, we'll take care of it in the morning. No pressure. Don't wake up at a certain time. So, you know, he wakes up early, takes the kid to school, like sees her still sleeping and snoring when he leaves. Comes, or no, when he comes back, she's still snoring, goes into his office, does a few radio interviews for something, answers some emails and then comes back to check on her. Non-responsive, medics come pronounced dead. A meeting. But just harrowing. Read it if you wanna feel sad. But yeah, I don't know why I wanted to end the show on that. Yeah, thanks a lot. I know, I'm a dick. Hey, everybody, have a great rest of your day. Yeah, I know. All right, guys, I'll see you later. All right, see y'all.