 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm joined by Roger North of North Drums Roger welcome to the show. Ah, thank you for having me It's an honor to have you you have been since the very beginning of me starting the show one of the guys Who I really wanted to get on because North drums and I'll say if people don't know what they are Google it right now because everything's gonna make a lot more sense when you actually see them They're very unique drums. I'm excited to hear about them Why don't we just go back and well first? How would you describe them? If you're describing it to someone who has no visual reference, how would you describe these unbelievable drums? well visually They look like if you if you have seen mostly on older ships and boats large boats the the curved air scoops that that Flare out on on the end that sucks in the air. They kind of look like that only upside down With the head the drum head being on the small end. So they're so they're essentially Sort of elbow shaped. Yeah, that's a great description. That's uh, that's they're there and it kind of horn like so that being said let's go back to the beginning and How did you come up with this? Did you come up with this word that was there anything like this before just take it away Take us through the whole story. I Did come up with it out of out of nowhere. I never had seen anything like it or and as it turns out there wasn't really anything like it but I Was was And I still am a drummer, but I was playing I was living in Boston After I got out of Graduate schools engineering school. I did graduated as an engineer and I was playing music in in Boston and starting in 1967 I got in a band called quill Which was around for a number of years in Boston and we're pretty successful there and we were play we were playing a lot of gigs in 1968 Starting in early 1968 opening and we opened for a lot of kind of big-name bands We never really got to the point of being headliners or anything, but we did a lot of a lot of a lot of pretty big shows and in August of 1968 we were open we opened for the who in Boston at at the music hall theater Which was a pretty big venue. So, you know, it's a converted movie theater bigger than the places that we normally had played and I was I set up my drum those setting on my drums and playing them and I had my my original set of drums Which is a set of slinger lens Double double kick drum, you know the full full four toms the whole the whole thing and I Set them up on the stage and then I kind of this was kind of before the days of really heavy microphone amplification of drums and So I went out into the into the seats to hear what they sounded like from a distance, you know and Truthfully, I was appalled because you know everything that I heard on stage. These were nice sounding drums, too everything that I heard on stage did not get to the audience and so so I Right then that was that was the moment that I said, you know, I'm an engineer I got it. I can do something about this, you know, so I just started thinking around with it made a prototype model of a With a 12 inch head turned out to be in a horn shape like that I mean somehow I don't know how that came to me. It just seemed obvious Yeah, you know what I want to do is reflect focus and reflect the sound forward to to the audience and you know to the band too But mostly to the audience because it it a normal drum sends most of its sound either down or up Which is because of the way the heads are arranged and where the head vibrates And so I wanted something that would reflect that out into the audience so I was living in an apartment in Boston and I Basically learned how to use fiberglass because that's it was really the only Reasonable way to try to make something like that Making it out of wood would have been really difficult. Mm-hmm. And so I basically ruined my first apartment learning how to use fiberglass and Yeah, you know, I made I made all of made the mold myself and there's a pretty big drum turned out to be a big drum I mean, I think that the open end of it was was close to 20 inches Wow, and For a 12 inch head drum. So I so I made a single drum and I had no desire. I wasn't really looking to Make them as a commercial venture or anything. I just wanted to make I just wanted to make something I could play that would that would be different and that would work and That popped that thing out of the mold what popped it out. I had to destroy the mold to get it out but It was just raw fiberglass. It's kind of this translucent Pink stuff, you know, and it wasn't very smooth or anything. It was just it was really funky, but it looked really good It looked like a like like translucent Giant seashell or something, you know, and so visually it worked really well and and the sound pretty much did what I wanted to I had to Experiment around with heads and things like that. So basically I had one drum and I I put that at in front of my in the front of my between my other two toms and I Played like that with it for a while and everybody would was wowed by it, you know, it's like what is that? and So it was great, you know, I got a nice reaction at him I started I started fooling around with some other shapes and then I decided well, I'm gonna make a smaller one so I made a 10 inch and Then I made an 8 inch And so I had three toms there and then I said, oh, I gotta have a kick drum now So I I didn't really go very fancy with the kick drum because it's it was it's already facing the right direction So the very first kick drums that I made I made two of them. They had 18 inch heads and there were 33 inches long 33 inches deep. They were like shotgun. I called them shotgun kick drums Wow 18 inch head the opening was 20 inches because any bigger than that and I was gonna or maybe it was 22 I can't remember but any bigger than that. I wasn't gonna be able to get it through doorways and things. Yeah, really So that that was the first set Let me ask you while we're on the first set like so Would you just use like, you know generic lugs or were you like deconstructing another drum set and grabbing lugs and You know drilling holes and all that well that was that was that turned out to be a really difficult part of the whole thing you know I had the shells but Finding the hardware, you know, there was a there was a good music store in in Boston called Worlitzers and I went in there and they had a lot of drum parts and things like that and I just scrounged up any any kind of lugs and rims that were the right size and and tension rods and Tom holders and things like that scrounged around for any used ones that I could find that would work, you know Cuz I wasn't I wasn't trying to make it look You know commercially feasible at the time. I just wanted it to work So that was my that that's that's that's what the first drums had on them. Wow, man They're like I can't imagine being someone watching you play these at a gig for the very first time and just being like what the hell is People did that for for years actually cuz you know, they weren't they didn't get that well known for quite a while So no, they're kind of Dr. Seuss ish in a way, you know, yeah, they have that aspect Okay, so then moving forward so you've made your prototype to fill a need that you had of projection You're playing gigs still with quill then What happens after that? Well, I played it went in quill up through Well probably early 1970 I When we quilt was reasonably successful and we even in 1969 in August we played at the Woodstock Festival and the original Woodstock Festival and I had Two of those drums at the time The big 12 inch and I had another one that was this weird. We're very weird sort of doombeck like shape only curved Wow, and they were on they were on stage There there are videos that have that show those drums. Hmm. That had to blow people's minds It would well, it would start, you know visually Woodstock was you know, people were not that close to the stage You know, so so that most most people probably didn't even notice it, you know, yeah But the other musicians did, you know, they they they were they were aware of it But so but so anyway when quill broke up I Spent a year playing with This legendary folk singer let Odetta from from New York City and we had a we had a little band and and the the wild North drums didn't really fit into that concept, you know So I so I went back to using my slingerland drums for that year But in the meantime, I had gotten a patent on on the or I had applied for a patent on the on the concept Wow And but it hadn't come through yet But so I played with Odetta for a year and put up put the drum thing on hold and then I after that thing ended I joined a band called the holy modal rounders also also from New York and Then that was they were appropriate for that. There was like a really very wacky group So I played my for a while I played my set with the two giant shotgun base drums and all that stuff even So so I went back to playing those drums and we the rounders moved eventually out to Out to the to the West Coast to Portland where I live now Portland, Oregon and You know, I still was I still had really didn't have any Idea of Making these commercially out of the idea sort of crossed my head, but I didn't I didn't really want to be a drum manufacturer I wanted to be a drummer. Yeah, and and I mean, I never wanted to be a drum manufacturer or really even when I started doing it, but but At a certain point I realized that the round the holy modal rounders were never gonna we were for a while we were trying to get record contracts and things like that and and They were successful in their own way, but but not not commercially and and So at a certain point I had it but I had a son at that point and his mom We were living as a small family and I was I realized This crap is this is never gonna. This is never gonna be a paying gig, you know Mm-hmm enough to support a family and but in the meantime my patent had been approved So and I remember when that was maybe in 1971 I I think I think I looked at the patent recently and it said 1971 So that it was a that it was approved. So so I said why I need to I'm gonna if I'm gonna do something I need I need to do something with this patent now and so the rounders were down in San Francisco area playing some gigs and I went to a patent library, which is in What is now a Silicon Valley is down? I free the name of the town but it's down it's down there near near San Jose near Stanford and There's a whole museum Dedicated to patents and all the new patents showed up there and everything so I went on up I did my own patent search, you know, and I said there's nothing here like this so Then I went to a patent attorney down there and tried, you know, try tried to that I saw an ad for You know, he didn't offer me any kind of a good deal or anything like that So I said, oh, well that hell with this. I'm just gonna go back to Oregon and make them myself So that's what I did and my first my first installation was in this barn which had a It had a concrete floor, but it was a barn. It was a funky barn and I bought I bought some equipment borrowed a little money for and some from my dad and But almost no money you know probably like Three or four thousand dollars altogether, which let me buy some fiberglass spraying equipment and enough hardware for I think four sets of drums and and a drum of Polyester resin some fiberglass, you know, so that's what that was what so I made four sets of drums and and But but I spent a long time making the molds making good molds smooth, you know professional looking smooth on the inside Which is really Complicated to do with fiberglass normally fiberglass is finished on one side and then the other side the other surface is Just rough, you know, but I didn't want that because on those drums the inside of the drum is actually Just as visible if not more visible than the outer part of the shell Yeah, it's just it's facing you right right so I wanted that to look good, too so I took me a long time to make the drums and and to make the molds and It made the four sets of drums and They look fantastic, you know, I mean people that that's what that really blew people away seeing them actually look like real drums You know, yeah, I bet yeah So from there, you know I put them in a couple of music stores in Portland and I didn't know what to do with them You know, I'd had musicians from time to time other drummers asked me about making them and I said I don't think I'm gonna make them but but I ended up doing it and the first actually the very first Set that I sold and wasn't even a complete set it was a set of toms that I sold to a big-name artist was To balls gags out of San Francisco, and he was he was he was playing up in Portland at a Paramount Theater pretty big theater there and my my son's mom I was out of town. My son's mom took took a Tom Tom down there and to show the drummer who I knew actually his name is Rick Schlosser. I knew him from Boston But he didn't Rick didn't have any money, but boss gags bought the drums. Oh, wow because it looks cool for the stage show Yeah, yeah, and I he may be a drummer to I as well as a singer-songwriter. I don't know. I never met him but anyway, that was kind of the first the first breakthrough and Then there's a little bit of interest around and I got back to Portland, you know a few months later and Billy Cobham was was Just he was he was like going out on on his own with his own band This was after he was in Mahavish knew or playing with John McLaughlin And he was he was he had his own band with George Duke playing Oregon and I mean Billy Cobham is like probably the same for most people He is who I think of when I think of North Drum's first. I know tons of people. Well, that's right That's that's what I that's what I am getting to you know I he he's the one really the one who put it over and you know, I can I remember that I Went down to the Paramount where he was playing In the afternoon while they were setting up and he wasn't there when I got there And I just had a I had a like a 10 inch Tom and I just stuck it on set it on one of the amplifiers upside down, you know a white one and I Was waiting waiting for him to show up and I was over on the side of the stage And he came walking on to the stage and he and he saw that this drum sitting there I mean, this is kind of an emotional moment almost He's he saw the drum and he looked at it says what is that and he came in and he walked all the way around the Amplifier looked before even touched it, you know I just looked walked around at staring at it, you know And then finally he picked it up and hit it with his with his hand, you know, he says whoa so and Then I came over and introduced myself and you know long story short somewhat short Billy I Told I told him I would love you to have somebody's drum But I can't afford to give him to you and so he bought them he bought three Tom's and took him back took him out on I don't know where he took him on his tour with him went back to New York where he was living New York City and Things took off from there. I mean drum store started calling me and other drummers and you know But he's were he's really the one to put it over. Yeah. God that's set up. I mean, I think of him as playing North drums and then a big five set Yeah, and yeah, it's just iconic. I mean that is so cool Can I ask you while we're on in like from what I can tell from kind of googling it right in this period of About like would you say this is probably mid 70s, right? Yeah. Yeah What about and I know nothing about them, but I'm sure you do staccato drums Yeah, you know that came out later And I heard about it for a while I mean one of the guys that was working for me one one day came in and this is this is well after I had sold a bunch of drums to some well-known people and Billy Cobham included and and Richie Albright who's it was Waylon Jennings drummer and Yes was already using and I'm an error. There were a bunch of people But but and I don't remember the exact timing but well into it one of the guys that was working for me came in It says, you know, I saw I saw a knockoff of your drums today and they're weird They're weird looking they have a weird shape. They're not like circular in the front They have this thing that looks like a nose sticking up and he said that it's like the kick drum Looks like a pair of underpants, you know, and I can't even picture it, you know That was when staccato Came out with their things and that's that's really all I know about them, you know I never I never spoke to them or anything. I think that I think it was an English company. I I'm not really sure. I've seen them on The great website drum archive comm which is a really great resource of like drum catalogs and they have a catalog on there and For people again to visually kind of to visualize it in your mind. It's basically a North drum Except it's not round. It's pinched It's pinched in the front and the open end open end. Yeah, and then the bass drum like you said is like It's got like a lot. It's got like a line in the middle and it's basically like a pair of pants. It's like It's yeah, now I can't get that out of my eyes. It's like a pair of boxer shorts, you know It's laying on their side Well, that's cool that you weren't like I'm gonna spend the next 10 years suing these guys and trying to go after But I guess it's it's across it's overseas. So that's kind of a different Yeah, yeah, and I think you know to tell you the truth. I like I said, I Was never all that interested in that aspect of business. Okay Yeah, I'm doing that. You know, I didn't bother me, you know, I mean it said well, man You know, what's gonna happen here? But but I just thought I thought they were for one thing They weren't they weren't as nice as my drums because they had this weird this weird shape But they were also not finished on the inside, you know And and from what from the pictures that I saw Yeah, they were they were rough on the inside and I said, that's Mickey Mouse, you know I mean that's so I wasn't too worried about them, you know I I sort of had the name recognition at that point and so yeah, so I did but I didn't want to get into that hole Now interesting. I just had to ask cuz you see him and you go like Man, that's that's a ripoff right there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was that was my that was my reaction Never actually seen a set. I've only seen pictures of them. I've never seen him either I have seen North Drums like in real life, but I've never seen which goes to say that they're probably I don't know the the duration of their company, but they're probably pretty rare. Your drums are rare, but Anyhow back to North Drums so So in the 70s things are going great and looking at the list of stuff You mean you got Billy Cobham you have Alan White from yes, like you said, there's a huge list Jerry Brown was playing them with with with David Bowie Yeah, Doug Clifford from Yeah, well actually Doug Doug Clifford Was really interested in helping me out, you know, and I he bought a set that he that he saw down in Oakland I think and he he bought them from the store and He called me up and Doug Clifford was he was not with credence clear water anymore I think they had they had broken up, but he he called me up and First thing he wanted was was He says why don't I want to come up and see your company and everything I said Well, it's not a lot to see but yeah, come on up You can stay at my house so he came up to stay at my house for a couple of days In fact, I think he had a gig up here in Portland with his with his new band I can't remember what it was called But it wasn't credence Sure, but but anyway I I He came up and stayed with me and came out to the shop and looked at all the stuff and just he was really nice really Good guy, and he was very complimentary and everything and and at one point he you know I was I was saying yeah, well, it's yeah, I'm just trying to do what I can I don't have any capital to work with or anything, you know, so it's I'm kind of getting Snowed I'm getting snowed under by all the orders and everything you know and And he said well, I would hate to see you be undercapitalized, you know And he was kind of hanging around and at the time I didn't want to I didn't want to do that You know, I just and looking back. It was probably a big mistake. I probably should have I probably should have taken him up on it Meaning take a loan from him or some Form some sort of a partnership, you know got it Yeah, yeah, it would have meant giving up a lot of the rights to the drums Sure, in which at that point I wasn't ready to do that because there were still like this huge potential So I didn't do it but I did make him a custom set of drums because he was also playing in this sort of more jazzy band and he wanted a set of two-headed North drums with heads on the front and I Said okay, I'll do that. I can do that You it's gonna cost you a little bit more money because I have to make special molds for them because it's entirely different shape You know, so I made him a small jazz set with a like an 18-inch kick drum and a One of the drums was it a 10-inch head Your batter head and I think an 11-inch front head because I had to I had to be able to get it out of the mold And the other one had a 12-inch head batter head and Maybe a 14-inch like actually maybe maybe it was 11 or 12 something. Anyway, there were two two sort of tapered Elbow shaped drums that I made for Doug by hands basically and yeah, I think while I was making them I'm saying well, he's not gonna have the only set in the world. So I also made a set of shells for myself Which I play now Awesome man And I have heard I don't know I haven't talked to Doug, but I had heard that that he didn't have him anymore And so I don't know where his set is Hmm. God that someone's got to have him. I mean, yeah Unless a flood or something happened, but usually I mean they got to be sitting in someone's basement And they maybe don't realize the the history or they got stolen or something I have no idea what happened to him, but you know, I've lost track of him and And But and I just I don't know for sure, but I was I had heard someone's someone told me that he doesn't have him anymore Wow, and he was always a famous like camco player So I always thought he was just using camco and I'm sure used other drums Well, he probably did in he probably did in credence. Oh, he was playing in his band was called the Don Harrison band And I think maybe the bass player from credence was also in that band. That's neat. Yeah, he's a great drummer Hindsight's 2020. Yep in the moment. You probably knew what was best at the time and didn't want to give up all of your, you know Yeah, yeah, and and really I kind of realized that if I did that You know being a businessman was gonna take over my life And I was still much more interested in playing the drums than I was in running a drum business. Yeah. Yeah, exactly you're uniquely positioned because People can actually and a lot of people do this I think where they just use your toms and integrate it into their drum set Yeah, they're like almost like octabons or rotatoms where you can you can just slide them in Yeah, yeah, quite a few people do that because you know, truthfully the kick drum isn't that revolutionary Although although it is deep, you know, it's it's 22 inches deep as well. So it's it's a it's a kick-ass drum It really is. Yeah, and it's fiberglass Yeah, which obviously vibes and pearl and a lot of companies make fiberglass, but it's it goes with the whole set Um Yeah, that's so alright while we're in the you're-in-business and everything. I Mean, I guess not really accounting for inflation and stuff. What would a set of North drums cost back in the day Well, I think I think they were retailing for like a Like a four-piece set, you know three toms and a kick drum They were retailing for somewhere around $700 maybe $800 in this I was I was trying to make them, you know be Not more not that much more expensive if at all then a set an equivalent set of Ludwigs or slinger lens or something like that, you know, which probably was another stupid mistake But I didn't want to be like I wanted them to be affordable, you know Yeah, you you don't want to price yourself out of the market by having a $4,000 drum set that no one can afford right right Would you? Would they be in every music shop around the country or were you basically like a music shop would call you an order and say We want to get some of these or I guess you probably had a distributor or something like well well when I was making them myself in in the barn and then later on in I've had to move my shop to an actual Little bit bigger shop When I was making all the orders were coming in to me from from stores and occasionally from another You know from a drummer, but I had to be careful with that because the stores got all freaked out If I sold them direct to somebody so yeah, I get it but but I was swamped and my molds were starting to fall apart and you know, it was it was getting to a point where I was worrying about it and I Got connected to a company in Long Island music technology MTI Through a friend of mine. I had I had a friend down in Los Angeles a woman that worked for a big-time manager down there Herb Cohen who was managing Frank Zappa and a Bunch of you know sort of oddball people like that but but she told her about these drums and her herbie is a businessman, you know and he Came up to Portland and again toured my shop and everything and he says well, you know I can get you I can get you a contract to to make for somebody to make these drums What do you want to do and I said well, I'll tell you the truth I don't really want to make them anymore But I and I at that point I was interested in you know He he was trying to get me a partner and I said I don't I don't want to do it I but what I would like to do is license them out for some license the patent to somebody to some company to Make them and you know market them and do all the all those things do do all the hardware and you know all the Other things that are involved in it Yeah, because I didn't want to do it anymore and and so Herb Had a had a friend on the East Coast Ernie briefal who was the President of this music technology and they had they had some other instruments. They had they made they were marketing electronic keyboards and synthesizers for I think a company called crew mar and they were There they also they also were marketing these really high-end accordions, you know, but but Ernie also came out to my house and He was involved with one of the one of the original guys the engineering guy that started five strums It's it sounded to me there and Ernie was was in tight with this guy from fives who had put the whole fives Manufacturing process together and everything so so it seemed to me. This is the ideal This is an ideal situation because you've got a marketing guy and we've got an engineer who knows about fiberglass blah blah blah so I I signed a License licensing a contract to license the drums license the patent to music technology and I very modestly Insisted that they still be called North drums, which I think was a good move I think so and you can't yeah change then it can it's almost kind of fusing halfway through to be like, oh, these are now South drums or whatever. Yeah, yeah, but I did I did want my name to stay with it And and so I licensed them to music technology and they had all took them quite a while to get their manufacturing process down where it was working and But in the meantime Billy Cobham had had made a they made he paid they they hired Billy Cobham to promote them a little bit and he was on a cover of Some music magazine, I can't remember what it was music world or something like that cover of him with a surrounded by a bunch of North drums and so so they were doing that. They were doing everything, right? Except that they had manufacturing problems and they eventually it but but they were selling them They were marketing they were handling all the stuff with the stores and everything and I was I was out of it and then they had so much trouble manufacturing them that They they Ernie called me up and he said, you know, what we would like to do is for we have some A new with they changed the shape a little bit to make it easier Manufacturing to make them so that the molds didn't were one piece I my my molds had there were seams in them. I had to assemble the molds So there really seems it was really problematic getting the things to look right, you know It was a lot of hand work when I was making them so Ernie said would you make the shells if I pay for you to make the molds and I would you make the Shills just make the shills and ship them to us just make as many as you can, you know, and I still had my fiberglass shop and I I said, okay. Yeah, I'll do it. So so I did that for I Don't know maybe six or nine months Maybe even a year while they were getting set up with this injection molding company in Italy and Palermo I think and so That that there was a period there where I was making Making the shells and they were doing all the assembly and that kind of thing and then phase three They they started getting the shells from Italy, which was fine. I didn't like I said I didn't want I didn't want to be a manufacturer really so I was all for it And they you know they consult they did I did some consulting with them and they flew me back to New York and Wanted to make sure that their new shells were okay We that sounded good and they were really resonant there in in some ways They were more resonant than the fiberglass drums and they were really strong I mean I he says what do you think these will hold up and I so I took a thing It was an eight inch shell that he had and I threw it Down on the concrete floor as hard as I could and it got a little tiny You know, maybe half inch long crack in it. Oh, I said I said yeah, and I said yeah They're strong enough, you know, so so with my approval and everything they they started making them in Italy and They went from there and was that in Italy with the injection molding was it like more of a plastic? It's well, well the fiberglass is actually plastic too. Okay. A lot of people don't realize that it's it's a polyester Resin but with with five glass fibers reinforcing it so it's so it's okay It's not as fragile, but the plastic the plastic the polyester is not particularly strong itself, you know, it'll crack I mean it'll it'll deteriorate so so So yeah, so it but the ones in from Europe. I don't know. I think it was a high-density polyurethane Plastic I don't I don't know what it was but but it was but it was pretty resonant and it was it was Really strong. Hmm man, is there a way for and we'll get to the very loyal Army of collectors out there, but is there a way for people who are collecting these to like Differentiate really like okay. This is one made in Roger's barn. This is one made by MTI This is one made in Italy. Are they labeled as such? Yeah, but when I was making them in the barn The the label I had a round about maybe inch and a half diameter Maybe two inches. I don't know a round label that just said north in the middle of it and it had the patent number on it and it had a sort of a Thing that I did in my typewriter to indent it with a sort of a serial number which Like if it was an eight inch drum the serial number would be eight dash 75 or something like that the 75th eight inch Tom that was made by me and Okay, so the label was different the the ring around the the open end of the drum was made of rubber not not I think when when They started making them back in Long Island. They started Putting it like a it's like a I think it was a synthetic rubber Kind of rim thing around it and it was sort of welded shut mine were mine were rubber and they were glued and there it was Actually a hard thing to figure out how to do that and make it stick and it and they do tend to come off Yeah, you're hitting the drum and it vibrates and it shakes It's like how a screw always comes off in your damn snare after you hit it a bunch You know, but the the main difference really is the ones that I was making in the shop were were longer That you know, they were a longer tube. There was actually a section of probably three or four inches long up By the head that was a straight cylinder and then it bent into a tube So they those drums would not if you just made a mold you could not get Get the drum out of the mold because it because of the shape So I had to make the mold in pieces and so those drums had both on the inside and the outside had Seams from that from where the where the molds came together and I you know spent quite a bit of time trying to get those Sam scenes seems to look reasonable and it even involved painting spraying a stripe of New coloring on the outside of the drum, you know, so so you know That's that's how you tell I mean those are those are the originals Okay, do you know how many is there a way to even know how many North drums are Out there from your very first one to the last day of production like I'm sure it's not like Ludwig We're there's a million. No, you know, and I don't I don't know that either That was that was kind of a bone of contention that I had with music technology as they were supposed to every year give me a Count of how many they had made and they were gonna they were They paid me in advance, but they were also supposed to against that advance. They were supposed to pay me a royalty Based on how many they made and sold and yeah, I never got counts from them and Yes from from the time that from right from the very first They didn't even give me a count for the very first year So so I don't know the answer to that but but when I had the business in the shop Of course, there were it wasn't all complete sets. So there were sort of different numbers of Eight inch drums toms made then then there were kick drums made and that kind of thing So but but they were there were under a hundred But they were they were all under a hundred. That's awesome. Man pretty pretty rare stuff Okay, so why don't you take us what happened at the end? I mean, I'm assuming obviously we're getting close to the end there. They're being made in Italy there then How did it actually come to an end? Well to tell you the truth it took so long for For the manufacturing process to get to get going correctly That the really hot demand that was there and you know when I did the licensing Agreement and when I when I was swamped with orders, you know, I couldn't keep up with them not even close and So it took so long for them to get it together on that on fiberglass Manufacturing on that end and then I was making them for a while and the volume went up a little bit but it took a long time to get that Italian thing going and Truthfully by the time they were tooled up to make a large number of them Things had moved on, you know electronic drums had come in and you know, they sort of had lost their Yeah, something that looks that different Take, you know, it has a hot grid and then then, you know, it becomes old hat You know and then a long time later it becomes vintage and then everybody likes it again, but now it's cool again Yeah, so perfect transition there to talk about there is a world of People who collect them and and the way I got to you and I want to give a shout out here. Well first off our mutual friend Friend to everyone who plays the who plays the drums Jim Messina of vintage drums talk has done a history with you And has a great resource. I know he's got North drums and has done a history of them But there's also a great Facebook group called North drums. Yeah, I'm in that pretty obvious You're in it. Yeah, of course, you're the you're the king of it Yeah, well every everyone I found out about it and I joined up and every once in a while Somebody will have a really interesting question and I will weigh in on it, you know, but I don't I don't I don't I'm not that active in it. Yeah, just occasional comments Well, there's a lot of people on there and I said, hey guys, I'm trying to do an interview With with someone about North drums and I had heard of you But they were immediately like, you know, you need to talk to Roger and actually it's it's interesting It's a fellow named Daisy Kaplan who is a Cincinnati guy where I live and I've seen him play a few times in the band Lung and he He plays North drums So it was just kind of a weird thing to have another guy still plays them I think he has a tom. I think he actually bought a set. Yeah, and then from looking back at the group I'm pretty sure he sold some off and I think he has a pretty small setup So I think he just maybe kept a floor tom or something like that They've become very sought after. I mean, you don't you don't see him too often. So when people, uh, there's a lot of collectors Yeah, you know, it's just it's used to be that I would Go to a gig I would play I'm at a gig and and people would come up other drummers would come up and say I've never seen those before. Those are amazing, you know and and and but nowadays Then it became People would come up and say, oh, yeah, those are North drums. My dad had a set of those You know and but and now Some of the younger drummers are coming up and and once again saying What are those? I've never seen those before, you know, so it's really interesting over the years how it's how it's slowly changed Yeah, cool. Well, um, yeah, I recommend people check out the facebook group and Just look up pictures of them try to find them. There's a lot of cool different colors There's the yellow and the white and I like how they have the different interior paint It's really rare to see a innovative product Based around an actual drum shell. There's like tons of really cool great small, you know Different products for your bass drum and for cymbals and everything but You don't really see many things that mess with the shape of a drum shell and I guess another Beauty part of it is unlike Trixen You don't have to have some funky Kind of oblong head that you have to order special. Yeah, you know Yeah Um, but as I said that I guess you and Trixen are two of the like really I'm forgetting and I guess staccato if we want to mention Yeah, well, you know, I I also remember When I was starting to make them when uh, when I think it was a zikos came out with the with the clear drums Which when those came out, I went oh, that's cool Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. Yeah, but there are very there. You're right. There aren't that many No innovative products and all that stuff. Um, now do you Have you for fun? Since when did it end basically the early 80s, right? Uh For me, yeah, yeah, I well for yeah, I don't know what I don't exactly know when mti stopped making them Okay, okay. Have you for fun in the last 35 40 years gone out and made any north drums on your own just for fun No, and you know I I did after after I When I still had my fiberglass shop, I made some, uh, cunga drums that were, uh, they weren't they weren't As you might imagine they weren't like conventional cunga drums, but they had but they had but they had, uh Um cowhide heads and you know heavy heavy and there were hand drums but they were there were more shaped like a Dombac But I made I made some I made some straight ones, but I also made some curved ones That sort of they look like a fish You know because they're they're curved a little bit and they and they neck down to a you know Probably about a four inch opening and then they flare out a little bit at the end So there there are a few of those Um, I dinked around with some other little kind of flat shapes that but That was a long time ago. It's fiberglass is is not not fun to work with at all No, I've heard that it's kind of dangerous and I you know There are times when I think about some of the stuff that I did and I'm amazed that I didn't Burn my shop down, you know, I'm amazed I didn't burn my barn down because I had a had an exhaust fan That actually had a spark inside of it, you know that I was using to exhaust the The overspray from my spray booth, you know, so You know, there are times that I wake up with a cold in a cold sweat thinking of all the things that could have gone wrong That didn't So so in some way, you know, I know I don't have any desire to make them anymore and that's funny, you know My only memories of that are kind of like Nightmares Oh my gosh, you know, well, but in the big picture you're you're a big part of drum history So I mean again, it's something to be proud of to be I and I am proud of it I appreciate that and I my son really appreciates it too Uh, yeah, his his name is tie tie north So he's a bass player a very good bass player played in a group called leftover salmon for 10 years or so Yeah, I've heard of them. He's a really good bass player But he he appreciates the history of of the drums and the name that that the name is on it and everything too So, yeah, that's funny. He was also recommended to me as an interview guest for this show But I had to go with the man himself. Uh, it just made the most Well, he's got interesting stories to tell too, you know, because he was out there Playing around in the shop when I was making them You know, I've got some good pictures of him surrounded by drum shells when he was like two years old You know that are pretty funny. So you endangered your own life and your son's life and your uh I tried not to endanger his life. I don't think I endangered his life. I know that's that's funny Did you make snares at all? I did I made it You know, people always used to ask me that are you going to make a snare drum? And I said, uh, I don't know. I just don't Know if that's possible, but I but I did make an elbow-shaped snare drum eventually 14 inch It was kind of big and it had it it was not a success really because it it uh, You know, the snare was on the head that that was vertical that was facing the audience, you know and um It had a really bad, you know, how snare drums will buzz to because of the the Bass players plays a note and it buzz it resonates with the drum and buzz it and A bass amplifier most of the vibration is horizontal, you know, and I had this snare drum that the snare head was was Was was was uh vertical And so it was it really resonated a lot from from the the bass amplifiers So that was a problem and it was the other problem was it was it there wasn't enough sound coming back from the Uh snare head to the the drummer, you know, so I mean I could have I could have gone the route of putting another snare Inside the top head, you know, like like the a lot of the scottish Marching drums do that now, but that that that was not happening at the time and I I didn't think of that Well, I'm looking at pictures of them right now. They're really they're really cool, but snare drums are just different You know what I mean? It's like a different beast. It's between Kind of the way it's set up. It's between your legs and your bass drum is set around in your in your hi-hat It's right in the middle of everything. Yeah, and having this big snare drum in there was was hard to work with Yeah, yeah, I think music technology sold a few of them, but not very many God, those got to be rare. I'm sure. Yeah, they're they're they're really rare. Awesome. Well, um I usually say well, where can people find you? But I think the best bet Is for people to hop on that north drums Facebook group and um just poke around and You're around it there every once in a while. So yeah, that's the way to do it and I you know To answer people's questions. I don't have any drums for sale. I have I have a bunch I have some shells in my basement and I I did take two Sort of virgin sets out of production when I was when I was uh making them and I have since Put hardware on them and everything and they're they're really nice But uh, I'm keeping those Oh, man. So those are like never released. Right, right One of them is uh, like a burgundy color and the other one is Dark blue on the outside and kind of light blue on the inside You know, they've got some different hardware on it. They've They've got the the rims are Not your usual just screw down rims. They're they're those floating floating It's a ring with a kind of a floating thing. So it's yeah Boy, I think you just fueled some more That's just now people can dream about those someday. Maybe being released into the world I've actually played them out a couple of times, you know, but In general, I I stick with my the two-headed ones that I have. That's funny. Cool Awesome. Well, roger. I think we did it man. I think we've covered the whole history. I feel like I um I've just learned so much about these these just rare and unique drums and and I'm always on the lookout for They do come up. I've seen them on here in Cincinnati. I've seen them up on like the craigslist. Yeah Yeah, they're not that expensive. You know, I'm I'm waiting I'm waiting for them to To be like old less pauls that are worth like $50,000 or something, you know, then I might sell them Yeah, at that point, but that's not happening. So that's all right Awesome. All right, roger. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and a big shout out to everyone Like I said in the north drums Facebook group and to again my buddy Jim Messina for just getting the the fire started for the uh, you know, Yeah, he's a great guy and and Bart. Thank you for doing all this drum stuff It's it's uh, you're making a nice contribution to the to the drum community and and uh, I appreciate it awesome Thanks, roger. Okay If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history And please share rate and leave a review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwyn sound podcast