 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump. With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Oh, I'm excited. I'll tell you what. I'm excited. Chris Faff, otherwise known as Drama, was very different because I didn't know much about him like you did. I know you've been following him for a while past Robin Berg. This is why I get a little geek. This one was cool, man, for me. This was a big, you know, we talk about milestones in our business and things that, you know, and I'm not, I definitely, definitely not the guy who gets starstruck or weird or nervous around people that like, maybe I watched or that were famous, like so, none of that. But there's definitely this respect level. And there's also this, wow, this is really cool that we're here because I spent many years watching him on Robin Berg and Fantasy Factory. And, you know, Rob Dierdrich and him are both two guys that I'm super impressed with what they've done, not just from the reality show, because that doesn't impress me. What impressed me when somebody takes that from a reality show, they pivot and they actually And turn it into a business. And they build an empire, you know, and Rob has done that and you see Chris right now building his and, man, what a cool story. Yeah, I was, because I didn't know much about him. I knew him from Robin Berg's drama. And when we met, I was very pleasantly surprised, the guy's super intelligent dude, very self-aware. We have great conversations in this podcast. You've got to see where it turns. I'm really curious where, as a listener, as you're listening through this, pay attention and tell me where you think it turns because, you know, when we set this up, Brianna was telling me like, you know, Chris was really hard to book because he was very uncertain to do the podcast with you guys. He was a bunch of fitness meathead guys. You know, he's not a big fitness guy. He didn't want to talk about working out and fucking nutrition the entire time. So you could tell that when we first sat down to start this interview that there's this little bit of like, uh, not excited. I don't know where this is going to go. And then there's definitely a turning point in the episode where you can just tell we're just having a great conversation with a couple guys. So you're going to hear us talking to Chris Faff again. His podcast is short story long. He's at drama on Instagram and Facebook and his clothing line is young and reckless.com. So without any further ado, here's Chris Faff. Dude, uh, super excited to sit down and talk to you. So I, um, I was a huge Robin, big fan as a kid. Thank you. And yeah, and that was the first time and I have bulldogs and everything. So I was that big, that big of a fan. He went all in. And I remember, I remember you. I almost bought a mini horse. I remember you being on the show. And then I remember watching fantasy factory. And then I remember, uh, watching you like starts your business kind of come along, man. And I kind of want to start us there. So kind of for those fans that may not know you. Yeah. Uh, what was that like at that age being on a reality show, becoming kind of a reality star and then breaking off. Yeah. Yeah. So at that age, it was absolutely insane. I mean, I came from Akron, Ohio, which is very, uh, very small town, very slow, very, you know what I mean? Not a lot going on. Definitely not anything like filming a crazy MTV show. So I came here at 18 right on the edge of 19. Um, and that stuff happened pretty quick. Like right when I got here, they were working on the pilot for what would become Robin big. And, you know, that whole process took kind of a while. It took close to a year from filming the pilot to it actually airing on TV. But it's pretty quick that there was like MTV people in the, in the house, in the living room, and there's cameras everywhere. And it just got real weird real quick. You know, and it's like, man, LA is weird. And it still is weird. It still is. But that was like, I got like the shock treatment. You know what I mean? I got like, welcome. Here you are. And weird MTV show. Yeah. So, um, and then obviously that kind of went off. It became this massive hit, you know, which was another super crazy feeling. Cause I remember one of the executive producers coming to us who, um, did jackass. And he said, you know, uh, in a couple months, you guys, when you're walking down the street, people are going to recognize you and this is going to change, you know, forever. Um, and, and I remember us thinking that was so not possible. Like it was just like, no man. Like come on. Like I'm a regular guy. Yeah. Like we had no goals of being famous or being like reality stars. You know, it was just like, I don't know, bro. Thanks for the heads up. But I don't think so. Anyway, so the show obviously became this massive hit. Um, and you get these weird, you get such a crazy reaction from people because they feel like they really know you, you know, like it's different than like, for instance, like the one crew is way more famous than we ever were. But if you see him walking through a mall, you're not going to run up on him and say like, yo, man, I love that one. You know what I mean? Cause you don't know him. You know the character. Right. Um, with us, they feel like they are in your house. They know your dogs. They know your, you know what I mean? They know everything. What a great point. That is a big difference between reality star versus somebody who's doing like an acting. I didn't even think of it how different it is. You probably get more people trying to butt into your shit. They relate really hard. Oh my God. And I didn't, you know, like, I don't care because I always took it very lightly. But like, I didn't, one thing I didn't think about is with my role being like the little homie getting picked on on every, right? I'm everyone's favorite little homie. I was, now I'm everyone's little homie every time I'm walking through the mall. Oh fuck. So I was like, drama, get out of here, man. What the hell are you doing? What? Who are you? Oh shit. Did I ever fuck with you at that age? Yeah, like nothing crazy. Like nobody ever like tried to give me a wedgie or anything. Yeah. Like let me give you a swirly. But like it was just the attitude of like, oh drama, what are you doing here, man? And you're like, well, who are you? Like they're, you know, people are talking to you like they really know you. All the sensors in your brain go off of like, oh who is this person? But they don't. So that's kind of like everyone treats you with the same dynamic that you're treated on the show. So it was a real weird, crazy thing, crazy time as a whole. Dude, talk about how hard that must be to try and break from that. It was hard. And I'm going to be honest. It, not that it was some big horrible thing like oh my God, I was the little homie and it ruined my life. But there was this element of like, okay, this was really fun. I was able to make some money and launch this company, but it is important to me to, I don't need to be taken too seriously, but I do want people to see me as a business owner. And I wanted to listen to my podcast and think that maybe I'm having decently intelligent conversations and there's some value. You know, you want to break out of that and have people kind of thinking you that way. If they're always just thinking of you as the butt of the joke, obviously you can never scale that into anything. So it was a process. And there were definitely times when I, you know, felt a little like beat up by it. You know, like I felt like, man, I just, I positioned myself one way to millions of people and that's really hard to conquer. But I do feel like finally, you know, it's probably a couple years ago that it really shifted and that I think people now more think of me for running young and reckless and for, you know, kind of the whole history of everything we've done as opposed to that. So you still get it a little bit, which now it's more fun. But yeah, it was a process. Did you have intentions the whole time like getting onto the show of like, you know, marketing this clothing like into your head or did that just like happen as... So here's what it was in my head. It was like, we moved here and I remember there was a moment when Rob, so I wasn't really supposed to have anything to do with the show. Originally I was just around because I was, I had just moved here and my goal was to get a job at a skate shop and hopefully a studio apartment. That was my life dream, right? So then the show kind of started happening. There was a moment when Rob had a guy scheduled to be his assistant and he quit. He called and said he couldn't do it. And Rob said, do you want to be my assistant? I mean, I don't even know what a personal assistant is or does. I don't know my way around the city. Like, I have no idea what that means and all of our friends came to me and said, man, don't do it. Because he's really, when he's working he's really serious and they're like, it's going to ruin your relationship with him. Like, you don't want to mix that. Just don't do it. And I remember him saying, like, look, man, if you want to be involved in any of this shit that we're doing, you know, this show and all this stuff that we're doing, this is how you do that. You know, there's no other way. If you're working at a skate shop, yeah, we can be friends, but like you're not going to be involved in this fun stuff that we're doing. And so I just knew, like, I wanted to be involved. Like I wanted to be around the action. Are you already into fashion and pop culture at this time? Yeah, like in the, yes, but not, I mean, I would be lying if I said, my real passion is, was to start a business and to be an entrepreneur. Not to change the fashion game. Even then? Yeah, even then. Wow. Even then. I always wanted to be, I always saw myself as like this entrepreneurial person and that's what I always wanted to do. Not, it was never that. My early dreams were to be a professional skateboarder, but it was never like a fashion thing. I cared, I liked it. I cared how I dressed. I was a skater and all my jeans had to be perfect and I would stretch my shirts out so that they were the right length and yeah, all that stuff. But nothing crazy. So what happened was, I'm sorry I'm rambling a little bit, but I knew I wanted in on the action. So I got, I started working for Rob, did whatever I could to fit into the dynamic that was Rob and Big. The first thing that I started doing was making beats, making music. And so I put a lot of the music on the background of Rob and Big. A lot of the like background weird little jingles were in mind. Oh, whatever. Yeah, and so that was my thing was like I would just give that to the executive producers and be like here, please use these, please, please, please. And they did me favors because those original ones were terrible. You'll hear, like if you ever listen to Rob and Big like rerun and you just hear some terrible ringtone in the back, that's drama. All right. But and then, you know, we did Bobby Light, the Bobby Light song because I was in that. You did that? Oh, that's awesome. That's epic. So that was my first thing. Anyway, getting to the point when Fantasy Factory started, I was like, okay, this is my opportunity to really launch something because it was just me and Rob at that point. And I just saw how clothing was like the perfect thing. There was a chain of retailers that where all the kids shopped who watched the show being PacSun, Zoomies, Tillies, right? It was dead on. You could ship straight to them before Ecom, obviously. And I could wear it on the show. I could market it. It just fit perfectly. That product fit perfectly with that marketing platform. And so that's when I came up with the name and the concept and figured it out. And Rob was real supportive of you doing that as far as like branding yourself and doing all that. Yeah, and I always tell this story and I hope that it always comes off right because what happened? So when Big Black launched his clothing line on Rob and Big, Rob helped him out a lot. He introduced him to a guy at DC who helped him with distribution and did all that stuff. So naturally when I had the idea to do a clothing line, I went to him and I said, hey man, here's my idea. Like hook me up. Yeah, I saw him happen here. He's like, where do I cash the check? And he essentially said, look man, if you want to do it, go do it. Like you're a smart guy. You can figure it out. I don't have the time to do it. Like I just, I can't help you. And I remember at the time being like, did you resent him a little bit? You hate me. Yeah. Like I was just like, why would you not? You know, and I didn't want to push back. I was never that type of guy. But I was just like, shit man, like I've seen you help Big Black and I've seen you help these other people. But I didn't hold any like real resentment. But it forced me to go figure it out and to go meet my business partners who I'm with now and to really learn it and figure it out. And to be honest, if he would have said, hey DC, do this line for drama, it would have been gone right now. I mean DC's went bankrupt, not too long ago, but also it just would have died. There would have been no, it wouldn't have been an actual business. I wouldn't have been invested in it. I wouldn't have known how to run it. And so I'm really, really thankful for that. And then like a year ago, he came to me because now we're a lot closer. He came to me and said, I'm going to be honest, I just thought it was whack. He's like, I just, he's like, it was a stupid idea. He's like, I just thought the name was whack. I just thought it was kind of whack. Now it's like the, he was kind of talking about wanting to invest. That's a true friend right there. It's the really successful, it's the successful business that came from the show. He's like, now I wish I blew it. That's great. But he's like, at the time, I just thought it sucked. You're like, you can't invest now, motherfucker. Yeah, and I was like, no, there's no place for you. Yeah. So as a fan of the show, I remember watching it. One of the things that I was drawn to was, as far as reality shows, I felt it was the most real. Yeah. But did you, was it really that real? I felt like you guys, even when you guys bickered a little bit, or you were frustrated with him, I felt like it felt real. 100%. So I'll tell you how it went down. Number one, all of the crew that always worked on the show always said this is the realest reality show ever. Bro, I'm just someone who's a fan. And I felt that, dude. You could just tell. Yep. And so the way it went down is this. We would, there'd be some crazy idea that either came from something that was really happening, something Rob saw online, something big black was doing. Like, you know, something would come up. And they'd be like, man, that's an episode. Like that could be an episode. So what we're going to do is, we're going to, you know, obviously we'll show you getting into it or discovering it. We'll go meet with this person. I think that'd probably be a good gem. And then the ending is us doing a party to celebrate the launch of it. So they would structure it in TV form. Right, right. But every moment was just whatever happens, happens. Who's the creative genius behind that? Rob. Rob is. 1 million percent Rob. Rob. Rob. Rob is a genius when it comes to that. Man. I mean, he conceptualized 98 percent of every single episode. Wow. There was a really good team of executive producers and stuff to kind of help him clean it or to say, like, well, we don't really know how to give a little more structure. Put a button on the scene. Launcher. Transitionator. Something like that. Yeah. And they were also really good at like, you know, there was one time, the famous episode where we got attacked by sharks. Well, he really let one bite him. I just screamed. But that came from driving in the car. Him and I driving in a car, episode and there's the cameras in the car but we weren't, we were just talking shit and he, we were just driving by the ocean and he said how much would it take for you to get attacked by a shark? And I'm like no price, like it's not a number for that. And he's like but wouldn't it be cool, like what if you knew it wouldn't like really mess you up but just like a scar or something, like how much, you know 10 grand, 15 grand, I'm like zero chance, no month, no dollar amount, not taking the risk. So anyway by the time we, he's like man I think it would be cool, I think I would do it. Yeah. By the time we got out of the car 10 minutes later the producers ran up to us and said hey we have a place in the Bahamas, we can do a whole episode about this if you want. And we're like okay, let's do it. So that's how like an episode would go. Dude every, I think every 17 year old to probably almost 30 year old at that time thought, that's probably what I thought, which was if I had all the money in the world, this is how I would do it. This is how I would spend it. Exactly. Especially Fancy Factory, that was one of those things. I was loving how, you know, like everything, it was like all this fun shit going on, but everybody's working and yeah, that was a crazy dynamic. It was cool, man. I'm gonna be honest, like there was a part, this might make me sound a little stupid, but like there was a part of me that didn't realize how much fun we were having until, until we stopped. You know what I mean? And like in the sense of we didn't like the actual process of filming, you know, of having to go every day for the whole day, you can't really have your phones on you because you have mics, like it's a little bit tedious some days. And obviously we didn't care at all about like the fame or the any of that stuff, right? So there were days when we were like, ah, this is just, you know, we just don't feel like doing it today. The point is it wasn't until it was over where I'm like, man, we really like that. It was like we had like a blank check and like could just and because you have this budget, you have an MTV budget. Yeah. And you have a team of producers and creatives to help you figure out how to actually do it. Right. So any idea they'll figure out in 10 minutes where you can go do it and what the different options was your favorite one? Oh, man. Remember the Lotto? I remember that was hilarious. God, you guys have done so many great, great fucking ideas. Yeah, because and there's so many different. There's different, man, like when we did some of the original episodes with Big Black and and his Bam Bam and his friends and Uncle Jerry came out from Alabama. I don't know if you remember that or not. That was during the Bobby Light Dirty Girl episode. Those were so fun just because it was like it was just homies hanging out. Like it was just so, so, so real. But I would also say like, you know, I got there was an episode where I got shot out of a cannon that was like one of the scariest things in my life, but like being able to have the opportunity to do that. Right. I was like insane. Also scuba diving with sharks. Like we didn't have we didn't have any sort of lessons or anything. They took us in a above ground pool for 30 minutes, said, here's how you take your regulator out. Here's how you put it back in. All right. Here we go. Good luck. You're 60 feet down on a shipwreck. Yeah, no problem. So I don't I don't know, man, there were just so many. I could name a million. There were so many good experiences. When did when did the when did the urge for the pop culture and the fashion thing happen? I mean, you're you're definitely into it now. Did that start to really evolve in Fantasy Factory or what? Yeah. Yeah. So I would say that like so on Robin Big, I started doing the music stuff and obviously that kind of gets you into pop culture world a little bit. But Fantasy Factory is just where I, you know, I think that I was probably 22 or maybe 23 when that started. And so naturally, that's just when I started to like, you know, 19 to 22. I say that I was just figuring out what LA even was, you know what I mean? And what it was even not living in Ohio was like. So at that age is when I really started kind of growing up and getting into whatever I was into. And I just kind of went in that direction, you know, like I was always into like rap and rappers and that's that stuff growing up. And this is just was my like adult version of it, you know. And and I put the studio in the Fantasy Factory and also like what happened was, you know, every so the way it happens in this weird world of LA is when you have a show and obviously you have a place as cool as the Fantasy Factory, every celebrity would reach out to come see it. Just to hang out, just to hang out. And you would get these weird calls, you know, that people just want to come see. Like I remember I remember one day my friend of a friend of a friend called and said, hey, Little Wayne wants to come skate the Fantasy Factory. And this is when Little Wayne was the biggest celebrity in the world. And you're in a rap. And I'm in the rap and I'm in the skating and this guy is like an alien, you know. And so I'm like, oh, man, OK, and so I go down, I end up going down by myself and I go down and his entire his tour bus pulls up and I'm like, Holy shit. Much of smoke comes out. UFO lands and like whatever. And then and then he hops out with a skateboard and he's like, oh, what's up drama? And I'm like, what the hell? And then he just went and skated for three hours. And that had been crazy because Little Wayne at that time, too, was just just massive. Yeah. So I guess what I'm getting at is I'm super rambly today. I apologize. That's all good. That's how we roll. Man, what I'm getting at is like it just became this intersection of like I'm making music. I have a clothing line that I'm trying to market and get on celebrities anyway. Celebrities want to come to the Fantasy Factory. I have a studio there. I mean, at the time in the studio, I was before they were there were nobody's. I was working with Miguel, Kendrick Lamar, YG. Those are just the people that were in there as these new up and coming artists. So it was just this really cool energy. And that's where all of those things kind of intersect. And it's such formidable years. I mean, those are years of growth for everybody. Yeah. How did they influence your growth as a person? I just think they taught me like the they taught me the hunger and the reality of like this entrepreneur life and like the hustle, you know, and it's like you got to reach out to the next person and ask for the favor and do the favor and connect with that person. There's an ambulance. He asked in the 100 percent and it never stops. And it's still like there's still days on my podcast where I'll reach out to people. I texted Puffy the other day to see if he would do the podcast. It's the most uncomfortable out of pocket. Like, I don't you don't need to like it's ridiculous. But you have to just ask the crazy favor and like constantly. And I think that it taught me in that phase, like what it really takes to kind of grind it out and build something in this weird world of entertainment. Yeah, it's all the relationships. Yeah. Yeah, it's not what you know who you know. It's always been your net. Your true net worth is your net circle, man. Yeah, it's so true, man. And it just never stops. I think that when I was younger, I had this fantasy of like hitting this made it point where everyone just comes to you and you can just do anything. You know what I mean? Like, let me just get so and so on the phone. Yeah. I will execute like and it just never happens, you know. And that's where I really learned to talk about that, actually, because I bet a lot of people think I'm sure you have got had this before who think, oh, well, he was on the show and he's got Rob. And of course, he's successful. I mean, I'm sure like he they probably think it's easy to talk about the grind and the hustle for for someone like, yeah. And then once again, that's another thing that used to, I think, bother me when I was younger. But it's like I think now is the story plate. Like if young and reckless would have crashed and burned a few years ago, I probably would have had to live with that for a long time. That would have been tough. You know, that would have been like, see, it was only Rob. It was a show. And like, it was your ride. But I think that now like that it's kind of evolved past that. It's been like when you look at the whole picture, you know. And and for me, the biggest, scariest part that I try to. Tell young people is was when I left Ohio, it was it was saving up the money and then filming Little League football games and selling DVDs to parents to try to get $2,000. Oh, you're hustling like that. Yeah. And I was making skate videos of my friends and selling them to the local skate shops and saying, look what the kids in Akron are doing. Buy this video. So I scrounge together close to five grand from these weird little odd jobs. And you're only like 18 right now. How old are you at 16? You know, 16. Yeah. Oh, shit. And then when I was 18, I had a really bad head injury. Right. I was my plan was graduate at high school a month later moved to L.A. So a week after graduating, we went to this big skate park opening. I fell hit my head skating, fractured my skull, was in a coma for four days. Oh, I didn't know that. Holy shit. I had a blood clot in my brain. So I and I woke up and I was devastated because number one, I didn't know how to read or food had no taste. And it was this weird thing, right? And and they're like, oh, you have a blood clot in your brain from the fracture and you can't leave. You can't go to L.A. You can't leave. And it messed me up like it just gave me a lot of, you know, it just really bummed me out, gave me a lot of anxiety. They always said, you know, at any point you could have seizures. You could have these sort of after effect. So the point was scrounge all that together, move to L.A. And I remember the first week of being here, not to sound like a baby, but called my mom every night. Like I don't think I can do this. Like this is just too crazy. It's too out of my element. Well, dude, it's so extreme. Like talk about that, like how different were you guys grew up because you grew up kind of like I did, like total farm town out in the middle of nowhere, kind of small. Probably everybody you drive down one street, probably know everybody in the neighborhood type of deal. 100 percent. It's so different. Even still now, when I go to New York, like I can only last in New York like three days because it's still too much. Like, yeah, like I've adjusted to L.A., but New York is like expert level and I can't get there, man. Too stimulating. They move fast. It is and you feel like you just can't get like a moment of like quiet, you know, you're always some there's people on top of you. So anyway, for me, it was about it was the whole process of getting out of my comfort zone and coming to L.A. and trying to figure it out. And when I moved here, Rob was a pro skateboarder. You know, he wasn't a rich celebrity. I mean, he was doing well. But we kind of went on this whole journey together and we built these things together. And that's why I think that my goal now is to really tell people what I learned and how I did what I did and share as much information as possible because it's not it doesn't help me in any way to like try to be too cool for school and think that I'm some, you know, hot. What drove you to do all that? Because I mean, looking back, take some balls, take some balls to make that that big leap from where you were to come out to L.A. and not know anything. Just in childhood. I mean, how were you like financially as a kid? Like, yeah, so financially as a kid, I mean, I had the parents that were we didn't have a lot of money, but they we never knew that. Like we never knew that money was even a thing. You know, like we would take the yearly trip to Myrtle Beach. We pack up the minivan and we drive on down, you know what I mean? And and we had, you know, a bike when we needed a bike, you know, but they just did a good job at not like it wasn't like we were worried about where our next meal was going to come from, but they just did a really good job of not us not worrying about it. But I knew that for anything outside of that, I had to hustle. And I was always drawn to the hustle, not the job. I never had a real job. Like I said, I would go I learned how to film because I was filming my friend's skateboard. So and then I bought a Mac because I was editing skateboard videos. So then I realized that there's not really money there in Akron, Ohio. But what I could do is I could go to it started with my little cousins, little league football game, and I would go and I would sit there for the whole game and film the game. And then I would come back next week with DVDs of the game for the parents and say, hey, 20 bucks, you know, you can buy your watch, your kid, whatever, run around the field and run into each other. And and little stuff like that is what I was always trying to do. So I've realized that 30 years old now. I just love the progress. Like I love the journey, something starting something. Yeah, it's not it's not as tied to money as I thought it was. It's not traveling for me. That's not a thing yet. Maybe it will be one day. It's like trying to start businesses or trying to start things and trying to put them out to the world and see how people react. Even the podcast, I make zero dollars off the podcast and I have no plan to. But it's so cool to sit with these guests, try to figure out the best format. How can I really blow a lot? What's the cover art look like? What's my little set look like? And then put it out and I'm just sitting there hitting refresh, refresh, refresh and see what the views are. You know, I just like that. And when I'm not doing that, that's when I start to go nuts. Are you do you hate boredom? Yeah, I do. I do. I'm OK. The reason why I'm I'm hesitating is because I'm not one of those guys that always has to be around a lot of people or like always has to be doing something like I can be at home. But I have to be, you know, reading a new book or working on a new release plan for, you know, like I have to be doing something with a purpose. I'm really bad at like just chilling for the sake of chilling. You know, it's always been a. Which which feeds well into a clothing line because talk about how hard that is. I mean, every week now the trend is changing. Like how do you keep up like five times already? And I've even went and tried to do other lines with other other people that were similar to what Young and Reckless wasn't failed. You have to talk about that. Tell about how hard that is. Yeah, so so it's. It's insanely hard, especially now, because like you guys said, it changes so quick. And it used to be like you would design your collection a year early. You would prebook it so you knew what people were going to buy. You would design in seasons four of them a year. You would shoot your campaign. Let's say you want to go get like a celebrity or a brand ambassador. You shoot your campaign and that's your spring campaign. And you are done. And I'm not to say it's not a lot of work, but it's it's a lot easier to schedule and to put into those spring summer formula. Yeah, and now that is completely dead. And if you are in any way working in seasons, as far as I'm concerned, in fashion, you're losing. Explain, isn't there like 20 seasons now? Yeah, there just isn't. It's just like, yes, people were long. So explain that. That's a good point. Explain what you mean by that. So what I mean is, like I said, that's the only way of doing it. The new way is all that you know for a fact is people buy more long sleeve things in the winter and short sleeve things in the summer, right? There's your seasons, but what you do is you, you know, you say here is a run of, OK, genes are doing well for us. We tested with two different styles, really low quantities, but they performed really well. So now we're going to go design 15 different styles of denim and we're going to order 20,000 units and bring those in ASAP. Now on the flip side, these button up shirts that we did aren't performing very well. So we're going to bail on those, try to get rid of them, either do like a flash sale or send it to an off-price place or something like that and make room for something new. OK, looks like we just launched hoodies two weeks ago and they're crushing it. We need five more styles of that type of hoodie. Looks like, well, it looks like it's constantly that every single day. Now, do you have to flesh it out? Do you enjoy that? Yeah, I like it. I like it. It's one of those love hate. Do you like that, Taylor? Well, when did you when did you start Young and Reckless? What year was it? It was 2009. 2009. Yeah. So that's when Streetwear was pop. Yeah. So let me tell you this, too. Like my model when I started Young and Reckless was this. I wanted to I saw how cool Streetwear was. It was killing it at that time. What brands were influencing you at that time? Diamond, The Hundreds, obviously Supreme, Crooks and Castles. All the Fairfax guys. Yeah, I liked it, man. And I I used to go get close from them when we were filming Robin Big. Like I was wearing a lot of diamond and Rob started Rogue Status, which turned into DTA, the shirt with all the guns on it. So so here's what happened. I realized like where I grew up in Ohio, you don't have access to anything cool and definitely not cool brands like that. And out here in LA and New York, people are waiting in line overnight to buy a fifty dollar Gilden T-shirt, right? Like, what the hell is going on? So my thought was, OK, what if I made a brand that had a strong message and felt connected to the customer, but didn't have that pride issue. I sold in malls. I was at Tilly's. I was everywhere, right? Because at the time it was at the tail end of like the action sports thing being really big. The best selling shirt was like a Fox racing T-shirt at Paxson. And so I said, what if I give that kind of streetwear vibe but to the malls? But that was like that was looked at as like, dude, you're just grazing over some brilliance. No, no, no, stop me then. So you are grazing over brilliance right now because the fact that you pay attention to that shit. So many people think they just going to start up a T-shirt brand. And just, oh, yeah. I think it's so much of you just want to be cool, right? And you can probably speak to that with the streetwear guys. Yeah, well, yeah, very much so. Yeah, that's where a lot of them got screwed. And I like those guys and this is no diss to them. But where a lot of them got screwed is they really started this thing as like the homies started making some T-shirts and it became a thing. And then they start, then you start to become cool around all the other homies and then you get your store on Fairfax. And now you have like purpose. Like your whole life is about just like, yeah, I'm the dude from the thing. Like, yeah. And all of a sudden you're going to trade shows and like you're all wearing the same shit and you're being real tough and like we're ready to fight someone over our T-shirts. And what the problem is like when- T-shirt wars. T-shirt wars. Meet me on Fairfax. But when it started to blow up and the actual category of streetwear became really popular, they weren't prepared. They were bad operators. They weren't prepared to blow up a business. And so a lot of them, a few of them tried. A few of them did really well and made a lot of money but nobody's really still killing it from that sort of phase. It kind of, it blew up. A lot of them made a lot of money and now you don't really hear about a lot of them anymore. And like I said, I love those guys to death and they were a lot of my inspiration for starting Young and Reckless. But they weren't ready for to operate a business on that level and sell to those type of stores and deal with returns and all the shit that happened. So. So purely operational mistakes, like a business mistakes. Yeah, and it just proves to you like brand is so important and brand is like, it's everything, man. But if you can't back it up with a plan and a distribution plan and an operational, you're not running a sound business, you're gonna hit a wall. But I think that's why a lot of, there's always kind of the big handoff, right? A lot of companies start and explode and then they usually sell or take on money. And at that point when that happens, that's when you're getting the operations, right? That's when those people are coming in and saying, okay, here's how we actually scale this business. It's really rare that any business has blown up to its full potential with the original founders, you know? But I think in street wear, it's just a little easier to spot because the founders look like skater kids, you know what I mean? Like you can spot them. Do you not welcome on Fairfax with a suit in a Goldman Sachs briefcase? You know what I mean? So what I was getting at is that was the goal. I said, man, I can do this. Like I can make a street wear brand. I always used to joke street wear with no pride, right? Street wear, but I'll sell it anywhere. What the hell do I care? We're all young and reckless, right? And so that's what we did and we went to Boston. You're mom's young and reckless. Yeah, I always used to tell that story too. My mom called me one day, I was like, Chris, I just wanna let you know I'm young and reckless today. I'm on your T-shirt. And I was like, why mom? What happened? And she's like, well, my recipe for cookies said to put one teaspoon in, but I put three. And I'm like, mom, you killed it. Like you're living the brand, mom, thanks so much. So anyway, so we did that. We got a lot of backlash for that. A lot of people, especially the Fairfax guys, hated us for that. You know, it was just like, you're just wack. Like you're selling out, right? Yep, and sure enough, a lot of them sold to the malls right after we did. Like, well, they are making some money over there. So that happened. I guess what I'm getting at is, shit, I'm rambling. What I'm getting at is that business model is now gone because of E-Com. So you can order Supreme anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter where you live. It doesn't matter if you're in Akron, Ohio. It doesn't matter who you are. Totally changed the game. Yeah, it used to be this elite thing. They wouldn't even, it wasn't even a good vibe when you went in their stores. They didn't want you in there. They only wanted the cool guys in there. You know what I mean? Who was the first to pivot once that changed? Well, pivot, how? To E-Com, you're saying? The first? I don't know who was the first. Well, what do you think about the way that it's evolved and what you would consider streetwear today? Yeah, because I guess, so the point too that I'm trying to make is like, so now that's gone, right? So me being a streetwear brand selling to the malls is not even, that doesn't even sound cool. And that doesn't sound interesting because it's not a thing. Because first of all, all malls are closing. And second of all, you can get streetwear at malls now. So the new thing is also in that time, H&M, Topshop, Uniqlo, all those places came here and expanded since Young and Reckless has started. They weren't really here when Young and Reckless started. So now you can get a full outfit that looks just like your favorite rapper or athlete celebrity for 30 bucks. You can get the whole thing, right? I can't compete with that. I don't have, there's nothing I can do with those prices. So my goal now is how do I, our main focus is Ecom. How do you sell a full collection as affordable as humanly possible, but attach a strong brand? And I'm gonna ask you, the kid, to pay 15% more to buy Young and Reckless jeans than H&M jeans, but you have the Young and Reckless tag and you have the brand. And we're also gonna curate music and artists and we're gonna give you this lifestyle. I think that's something I can accomplish. What are the strategies that you're putting in place to do that? It's really, number one, the hardest part is just sourcing the product. Like we're making, we're doing jeans two for 70 bucks and we're doing two for 30 printed T's and packs of three T-shirts for 20 bucks. We're doing really, really well on prices, but that's a mission to try to figure that out and to keep your quality right. So what you do is we're trying to nail that as much as we can and then we're really trying to kind of also elevate the marketing and make it look even more expensive and make sure that we work even more with people that we really believe in and make sure that the quantity of content is there. Because now you put it out today and it's completely, they forget about it tomorrow, right? Like we could have Barack Obama wearing a Young and Reckless T-shirt today and by Monday it would never happen. You know what I'm saying? It used to be like 50 cent war echo on TRL and the brand blew up, you know? But those days are just gone. So it's quantity. It's like, what's our brand message? What's our values? Pump that out as much as we can. Make it feel elevated and then sell the clothing for an affordable price. I think if you do all that, you create a world that's like, ah, this is something of value. Dude, that was a great trip down memory lane right there. TRL? 50 cent. Yes, I'm telling you. It used to be, like if you hear those stories it's like, yeah, the moment he wore it on, blah, blah, blah, it just exploded, you know? But now like nobody cares. How do you feel about, you know, the days of Amazon now? That being the big juggernaut? It's like half of me thinks it's so amazing and so cool and I love everything they're doing and half of me is scared for my life because I am in a business that they could just steamroll to a degree. You know what I mean? I think they're doing everything so well. They do such a good job on everything they do. I'm curious to see how branded apparel fits in to what they're doing. It's interesting. Because it seems like brands for a lot of things don't matter anymore because now you want to look and see, oh, this has got five star rating, this has got five star rating, that's all I care about, but clothes are a little bit different, right? Clothes have style and fashion. So they seem to be a little bit protected from that. But also here's one of my theories is I believe that, okay, so let's put ourselves in a make believe high school. And when we were all in high school you would walk down the hallway and you would see the kids, the hot topic kids and the fooboo kids and that, right? And that is how you said who you were and what type of person you were. And that's why you would pay $40, $30 for a screen printed t-shirt, right? The value is not there. It's the brand, right? Now when you walk through a school, what says who you are is what's on your Snapchat. And what do you have the iPhone X? And the iPhone X is $1,000. It's an accessory. That was a really nice outfit. It's a very high school brand. Well technically Apple's a luxury brand, that's what they say. 100%. And what do you have the Apple Watch? What's your phone case? What's on your Snapchat? What are your SoundCloud playlists? That is what says who you are. So if you have now, then you go stack it with some H&M jeans or some affordable stuff because it doesn't even really matter as much anymore. That's how you kind of put together your life now and express yourself. So just brands don't mean as much in apparel either. Unless you're actually providing real value. And I think that value is not only through the clothing and the quality and the price, but also what are you giving that kid? Are you telling them what music to listen to? Are you telling them what podcasts are cool? Are you actually, you know, they'll subscribe to you. The whole brand. Yeah, they'll tap into you if you're actually giving them something of value, you know? But if you just say like, we're the coolest because look at us, you know? Was that part of your motivation to do the podcast? 100%. So two big motivations, cause we covered them both. One was that was, how can I offer something? And the thing that I'm so passionate about is I moved to LA, I got out of my comfort zone and I was exposed to what's possible. That's it. Like I saw, I watched an MTV show be created. I watched people become superstars. I watched brands be created. I watched DC shoes go from $1 million in revenue to 500 million after the Robin Big explosion. I watched it. That was the greatest gift. So what I try to do is let other people see it. Just interview people, humanize them, say this is how they did it. It's not that big of a deal. They've had their hard times too. They've had their good times. Their idea came to them in the shower or this one came when they were hiking. Like here's the reality, you can do that too. So it was that mixed with wanting to continue to tell who I am and get at, you know, just tell my story. And why do you, once again, why do you follow me on Instagram? If it's just cause I have cool pictures and cause I'm the guy from the clothing thing, it's not gonna work. I'm not gonna build an audience that way. If you follow me because I'm a young entrepreneur that is around other young entrepreneurs and I expose you to cool ideas and cool strategies that I'm trying and books that I'm reading. And by the way, here's our new collection and here's how we made it. That's some value. And you wouldn't know this unless you listen to you, like I'm listening to you right now, talking, you know? That's the thing. And also, you know, like once again, the gift and the curse is most people that do know who I am that don't like subscribe to what I'm doing now, think the opposite. Like they just think, I don't know. He's the fucking guy from the thing. Like he was on the show and then I think he had like a clothing thing or the young and restless, like the soap opera. I don't know. Young and restless. Dude, please tell me about that before. Oh my God. Not only have I had it, but one day we were filming on the set of The Bold and the Beautiful because it was Rob's mom's favorite thing. And they asked me to take my hat off because the young and restless set was next door. I'm like, damn, I feel like I'm in an enemy gang territory. Like, yo, can you please take that off? And I'm like, it's not the same. They're like, please. Yeah, you're gonna start a war. Oh, that's hilarious. There's no Y and R in the building, you know? Fabio's gonna come out. Hey, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah. So I just noticed that, I love doing the TV stuff and having fun and getting shot out of cannons and attacked by bulls. I really do. But there's a different type of fulfillment that I get when I'm sitting talking to young entrepreneurs or I'm talking about mindset habits or I'm talking about daily routine. Just stuff that I really like and apply every day. So I wanna pursue that as much as I can and share that information. And the same thing that everyone wants. I want a kid to come up to me one day and say, I truly lived a life that I didn't think I'd be able to because of you, because you exposed me to that. Because that's what happened to me. Does it feel like a bigger purpose than everything? In other words, do you feel like this is just a bigger purpose than? Yeah, I think that it is a purpose. I don't think the other stuff was a purpose. Like that was part of the problem, right? And I hope that doesn't get taken the wrong way. But it's fun filming a show and I made okay money and even launching the brand was cool. But that's not a, I didn't have a talent. I wasn't famous for a talent. I wasn't famous because people liked my music. I wasn't even that funny. I fit into the dynamic well. That's what I was good at. If I had a gift on Fantasy Factory Robin Big, it was knowing where the hole was for me and filling it, right? Yeah. But so people aren't coming up to you saying, man, that song helped me through a tough time. You know, it's like, my dude, like who's shitting the pool? Who's shitting the pool? Who's shitting the pool? Who's shitting the pool? Fuck, so yeah, it wasn't, I think I was kinda searching for a little bit of that purpose. And I think that it then led me to starting Young and Reckless and then led me to realize that I loved entrepreneurship and I loved that. And so now, talking to other entrepreneurs, trying to teach people how to achieve, trying to teach people that they can get out of their comfort zones and they can do some stuff that they really don't think that they can do, that is my purpose. You know, we hear a lot about your generation and the younger generation, the millennials, if you will. There's a lot of shit talk about them, I see like this huge explosion of like entrepreneurship. Is that, am I just, am I crazy or is that legit? Cause I see a lot of kids, you know, when they're mid twenties and early thirties and they want to- They're into the hustle of it. Yeah, it's different than when I was a kid. It wasn't the same. It's definitely a debate to be had. I don't know yet. I think that I, I'm on the tail end, right? Like I'm like millennial cusp, millennial adjacent. Because like I didn't grow up, like pointing a phone at my face and telling people what I'm doing still feels really stupid. Oh, okay, we're all the same nation. Oh my God, it feels like- I can do this, I can do this all day long right here or stand in front of tons of people, but to talk to the phone still, it's too weird. So I, yeah, so I don't, I didn't get that. I'm forcing myself anytime I'm doing stuff like that. But I did come with a little bit of the, I think, you know, the fact that you even can, like we always joke about, if you dropped out of college 10 years ago and said I'm going to go start a business, they'd be like, well, we'll see you on Skid Row. You know what I mean? But now if you do it, they'd be like, hell yeah, you are. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. You're going to be just like Gary Vee, you know what I mean? Like it's accepted now. Now I think that the bad thing that comes from that is- Everybody thinks they can do it. Everyone thinks they can do it. They don't realize how much hard work is involved. No, and it's more about like, do you look like you're doing it better than you're actually doing it? God, what a good point. Like people get really good at looking like they're getting really good. And I think that that is a problem. That's becoming a skill. Thank you Instagram. Yeah, thank you man for screwing up our youth. But no, I think that that's really dangerous. So if I could make my stance in the debate, I would say I think there will be more entrepreneurs and self-made people because of it, because just of simply more people trying. Like if you're getting marketed almost. Yeah, you're going to have more. If you know, let's just say you had 1,000 people try before. If you have 10,000 try more, try this year, you're going to have double the success rate. But I think you're going to have a lot of people really confused and really lost. Why is this working? Yeah, like what? I'm doing everything right. My post got 1,000 likes. Yeah. Like what? What's taking so long? So yeah, I think that it's, you know, I think it's dangerous, you know, but my goal is to try to find a way to like, and I haven't been doing a very good job of it yet, but to try to give like real realness, not all the fluff, you know, and the like, I don't know, there's a lot of just fluff of entrepreneur talk out there. Yeah, there is. And to try to really say like, this is how you do it, or like I'm doing a campaign with 21 Savage and here's what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, why I'm hoping that it will work well. That's cool. Like I'm trying to do more of that without coming off too harsh, because sometimes I listen to myself and I'm like, you sound like a drill instructor. Like, you know what I mean? Like get out there and you got to find out how many units, and like nobody cares about that. So finding that sweet spot, I think. Yeah, but that was the brilliance that I was talking about. I mean, you do your homework. It's not like you just thought of a cool, I think most kids think, build a cool page, make myself look cool, get a good camera. They're thinking of all those things. The brand is just the logo. Right, that's why it stops. I think they don't like the process. Going back to what you mentioned. Oh yeah, no, yeah. But they don't even know that they like it or don't like it, cause they've never even tried it. Like it's like, I always, I use this comparison for everything, but it's the same thing as going to the gym and being in shape, right? It's like, nobody likes it. Nobody actually is like, yes, 10 more. I can't wait, one, two, you know. It doesn't happen. But you don't realize how nice it is and how it's an added benefit to your existence when you learn to enjoy that suffer, you know what I'm saying? And I think that that's the same as how I look at like running a business. Like, I don't, there's a lot of days where I'm like, holy, are you kidding me? This is like, this is what I have to do. Or like this, it's terrible. But when you go home at night on those days, you feel extra good. So accomplished. It's the day when I come in here, when everything's just on autopilot and I'm just kind of walking around making sure everyone's good. I go home and wanna punch myself in the face. Like, those are the bad days, you know? And I just think a lot of young people, a lot of people, I don't think it's even, I think this is a thing that has repeated itself for a very long time. I think people have not given an honest try to know whether it's for you or not. I think one of the biggest lies is that, you know, you need to be motivated. Like I need to be motivated to pumped up to do things. And what people don't realize is that motivation, like any emotion is an emotion. You get it and it goes away and then what? It's the when you're not motivated that you can become successful. And one thing that I'm real big on too is motivation follows action. Action doesn't follow motivation, right? So like what I've learned is I don't sit and wait. It's like, well, not feeling it. And you know what? I'm not feeling it today either. Oh, until I get inspired. And I'm like, you go, go do something. Go start, you know, come to the office, work on something and you'll find the thing. Or is it create, create motion? Will create motion? Is that what it goes? Or motion creates emotion? Yeah. And I think there's emotion in the ocean. You know what I mean? That's what I know. I know that one too. So yeah, I just think there's a lot of people that are kind of spending their whole lives sitting, waiting for that strike of motivation to hit them. And you just don't realize that it comes from like messing up and feeling stupid and feeling awkward and losing and you know. Now outside of obviously the field you work in and your podcast, is there anything else that sparks your interests or things that you're into? Little stuff. I mean, I like photography still. Like it's lingering from my days of filming and taking photos as a skater. I like it, but I just don't. Like I'm not out walking through the park taking photos of trees. Like I just can't. I don't know where. Maybe if I go on good vacations one day. No, man, I hate to sound so... Are you passionate about what you do? Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. It's very, very consuming when you're into what you do, man. Yeah, no, I just, yeah. I like reading books and stuff, but all the books I'm reading are like entrepreneurial. So I gotta get out of that. I gotta read some more like history stuff or something else interesting. But yeah, I'm pretty focused on what I do. And other than that, I... Who are your favorite entrepreneurs? Oh man, that's a tough one. I would say, you know, the list that's coming to mind is the obvious. It's the Elon Musk, the, you know, Steve Jobs. He was an asshole, but what he created was it. I don't like his personality, but what he created was brilliant. Jeff Bezos, you know, all the go-to. I don't have some... Have you read the four yet? The what? The four. No. Oh, bro, what's the four? The four is about the big four companies. Is it those guys? Yeah. Well, it's a book? Yeah, it's their game plan. I wanna write it to you. I feel like the four horsemen. Dude, you will, it's my favorite book I've read all year. I'm writing it down. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to think if I have any like really cool niche one that Rob's gotta be in there. Well, of course he is. He is, but I, he's like my brother. You know, like I'm a fan of him as a whole. Like I don't even think of him as like an entrepreneur. He's like, yeah, he's my brother. That's awesome. Any favorite guests you've had on your show so far? Our mutual friend, Tom, Tom Billu, is amazing. I interviewed Tim Ferriss, who's on this coming week's episode. He was great. Was he different than you had expected or was he exactly? He was different. You wanna know what? Once again, just being honest, sometimes on his podcast, I feel like he comes off a little arrogant. And I just think it's his, I just, now that I've met him, I think it's just his, how his personality sort of comes off. He was the nicest guy and he came here by himself and it was at 8.30 in the morning on a Sunday because he could squeeze it in before he left town and he just came with two big duffel bags and he had been out of town for like the last five weeks. But everything he needed was in these two duffel bags, including his whole podcast recording set up. Like, he just lives, he is Tim Ferriss. Like, there's not a piece of him that is not who he says he is. But it just, I think the big thing to me was he was so, so nice and so willing to just sit for hours and talk about anything. I feel like we're surprised more than we actually are right on. Most times when we have a guest, we think they're gonna be, huh, he might be boring and like. It's so true. Right? Don't you feel like that? I feel like that's what I love about this. Well, the thing about podcasting that we've noticed and realized is that podcasters, it's like this, it still is and I'm sure it's gonna change because everybody's getting into podcasting now but it seems like this great community, like everybody kind of wants to help each other grow and do well. When we first started, we were nobodies and we would meet these big podcasters and they were totally helpful. Like, they'd want us to succeed and come on my show and I'll be on your show and it was like, well, this is. Stay in my house. You know, I kind of like. No shit. Like, seriously, it was, it's pretty awesome. It's so cool. I will say that that was one thing that I hated about the streetwear. I would say apparel is like the opposite. It's the opposite. Apparel is like fitness for us. Oh, yeah. Just the territorial. Oh, yeah. A lot of insecure. Take camps, you're in that camp. Oh, you're that. Okay, that's what you wear. That's a battle of modality. That's how fitness is just like that. It is so stupid. That's kind of what, that's what inspired Mind Pump was to break that mold. So the three of us have taught, we've been in 15, 20 years but we all have different backgrounds and we share the positive things about all the different modalities of training. But within our community, it's not like that. It's like, my way is better than your way and it's like who's dropping studies to prove that. The way what we're doing is better than what they're doing over there. And it's like, no, there's something. It's insecurities, a lot of insecurities, a lot of big egos and fragile egos. But in podcasting, we haven't seen that. Really haven't. Everybody's been super fucking cool and smart. It's so weird. Everybody's pretty smart. Yeah, that's the cool thing. There's not too many like complete idiots. No. I, and if so, they're really funny, right? Yeah, yeah, there's something to work for. But it's just weird how an entire industry can, like the culture can be insecure, you know? Like cause that's how clothing is, like they will fight. People will fight each other over like clothing, shit. Like it's so. That's exactly how Phineas is. Like the last big Phineas convention down here in LA. There was a- It was a fist fight, wasn't it? Yes, it was a, what's his face who just died? Right? Oh, oh, oh, oh, Rich Piana. Yeah, it was the big, I don't know if you know who that is, but big tattoo dude out. He just died recently, but just the last big LA convention of Phineas, they got into a big old brawl and it's like these camps, you know? And they sell their clothes and their supplements. I just think, I think it's an image. I think any type of image industry that's super, you know, based on image and how you look, a lot of that's driven by, I think insecurity, like fitness, right? Like I was the skinny kid, so I want to build us muscle. I was really fat, so I needed to look a particular way. So these big egos, real fragile egos. And in podcasting, it's really just, it's about your content. Yeah. It's about your values. Your listening are growth-minded people, right? It's growing deeper. Most people that turned on a podcast, you turned on the first time to probably listen and learn something, right? Were you a big podcast listener before you started? You know, not like crazy. Like I was, but like Joe Rogan, the occasional Tim Ferriss, kind of the obvious go-tos. I more just loved the platform. Like I just thought it was so cool. I'm more, I believe that I gravitate a little bit more to talking than to like on camera stuff. If I could have it my way, right? And just the fact that you could do whatever you want. I could launch it tomorrow. You know, it just was. Super free. Yeah, I really, really liked that. I could do it in the office. And the way I always looked at it, and still look at it, is like, I think that it's the foundation or it's the thing that will start to kickstart all of my new things. It's not the thing. Like I don't look at like, I'm gonna have the world's biggest podcast. I just, it's so hard. It's just, that's starting, I can't believe the conversations that I've had. And you know, like I wouldn't be talking to you guys if I didn't start a podcast, right? Cause it went through Tom to then to whatever. So imagine talking to Tom. Now I'll call Tom with like weird brain questions, right? Cause he's just like brain genius. And I have 10 to 15 people that I now talk to on the regular because of sitting down and having these conversations with them. And it's just taking me in this whole kind of different direction that I didn't expect. Which is really cool, you know? And I just, I think that'll be the start of kind of where my life goes. Have you always been this self-aware and growth-minded? Cause you're very, I know you mostly from the show from, you know, Robin Big and hearing you talk and whatever you're extremely intelligent, very self-aware and very growth-minded. Have you always been that way or is this something that you started to develop? Or do you have a pivotal moment in your life? No, first of all, thank you. Cause it was an insanely nice compliment. I think that if I could really, I think when I was younger, it came off more as like anxiety and like worry. And you know what I mean? I think that that was like the young- Same here. Yeah. And it's still something- I know what you mean, yeah. It's still my biggest. If I could say like, what's your biggest flaw? It's that. Like it's just anxiety and sort of social. Like that's why the podcast has been great for me too. Cause it forces me to sit down and talk to someone for at least an hour. Super therapeutic. Yeah. And there's been days when I, especially in the beginning, when I would come in and be like, oh man, I don't know what to talk about. I don't know his story really well. Like where are we gonna go? And I will leave and be like, yes, yes. We have talked for two hours. Overcame. You killed that conversation. And like it's really is like putting yourself through like this thing. But no, I think that, yeah, I think that I was an over thinker and still am, but I think that, yeah, there was no big turning point or anything like that. I've always been pretty like analytical and just really tried to look at everything as thorough as possible. And like I said, it's not always- Studies show, like what you're saying is actually the studies will show that anxiety and those types of things are definitely closely connected to growth-minded individuals. It's almost like it forces people to try to grow and change and whatever because you're in this uncomfortable state most of the time. Yeah, and I think like the good thing is you're really self aware. Like being self aware is really good when you're doing a podcast, but when you're in an uncomfortable situation, it's really bad because you're like, I'm a lot of stupid, I look stupid and you're doing stupid things. I said that. Oh my God, I said that. They think you're the guy from the, okay. You know, like, you know, like so. Yeah, it's not always, it's not always a gift. Do you, well, are there, do you have exercises that you do to help you with that or do you catch yourself and what do you do? Cagals. Not sure. Yeah, so it's cagals when I'm in usually crowded situations. Squeeze it up real tight. I think that in the last like two years, I have been on kind of this mission to like, you know, just be a little bit better, more well-rounded person, figure out where my issues are, my flaws are and just really work on them. You know, even if it's socially, even if it's not spending enough time with my friends or like I added it on my notes every single day to call or text my mom. And I just noticed now it's a habit and every morning I say, hey mom, love you, hope you have a great day. And there would be like two week times when I didn't talk to my mom at all, not for any reason, not cause we have an issue cause I don't love her. I just wouldn't think about it and she wouldn't say anything. So it's little stuff like that that I'm really trying to slowly get better. I think that when it comes to the anxiety and stuff, the main thing, like meditation has really helped a lot. How often do you do it? Every day if I'm doing it right. Do you use any like tools for it or just sit on your own quiet? I use a calm on the app, calm. Yup, so it's for 10 minutes. So I do that. I even recently started doing affirmations and goals cause one of the guys I had on my podcast who became a really good friend is really big on that. So I was like, fuck it, I'll try it. So I recorded it of me saying it on my mics into put it on my iPhone. So every morning I sit for 10 minutes and I do meditation and then I listen to my little affirmations and I listen to my goals for the end of 2018 where I'll be December, 2018. And it's amazing how some of those little things really just snowball into making yourself, you just feel a little bit more in control and grounded. And there are times when I'll be in situations and start to get a little jammed up and I'll focus on my breathing or stuff like that. But I haven't found a curell. I think that it's like, as you get better, everything gets better, you know? And that'll forever be a challenge to try to figure out. How do you deal? I just, another good book for you. Irresistible talks about like the addiction to phones and social media. And this is a big part of all of our lives and world now and for sure a tool for us to be successful but it also can consume you. Do you notice that yourself? And are there, do you do anything to make sure you have like a day off or you get away from that? Like, what's that like for you? Yeah, 100% I think it's terrible. And what I did for a long time and I think I'm gonna go back to it is I had two phones and one phone was only phone and text and the other one was everything else. So YouTube, Instagram, Snapchat, email, everything was on another phone. So you are very, very aware, like right now it would be in my bag and I would have a moment where I like we were done and like, okay, I have a break, I have nothing, I get to check my stuff, right? But then you put it back and you're just very aware of when you're messing around and wasting time and when you're not, it's so easy to check a real email that means something and then go over to Instagram for a second and then you go blah, blah, blah. And before you know it, it was 20 minutes and you checked an email, you know? And I think that it's, I think it's really bad and I think it's a problem that I have 100%, I need to check it, like I need to whatever. I have an app on my phone called Moment which you set like a goal of, like I try to stay under four hours, which sounds insane, on my phone every day and it alerts you when you're over. That book talks about that app. Does it? Yeah. Yeah, okay, so I got that from, I think a podcast or a book or something. So it's great, it sends you a little alert, hey, you're a loser when you go for four hours. Hey, junkie, why don't you stop? Hey, Crackit, how's Instagram? And then, and it tells you what apps you spend time on which is mind blowing. If you even go, I didn't know this for a long time, if you go to your, I believe settings, go to battery and then go to click usage, it'll show you what percentage of your battery was spent on what apps. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, so it'll say like 75% Instagram for a day and you'll be like, shit, I'm a loser. I did not know that. That's a little hack right there, I had no idea. Yeah, yeah, so it tells you that and whatever, but yeah, it's another thing that you just have to try. It's just like anything, man. I'm learning that like, it may sound like, yeah, no shit, but like all of these things, you know what the issue is, you know how to do it better, like you know how to eat better, you know how to exercise a little bit more, you know how to stay off your phone a little bit more, you know how to, like it's just doing it and doing it little by little and trying to set up systems to track if you did it or not really helps, you know. I have, this thing that I do, which is a combination of like from Jerry Seinfeld and A Friend of Mine and blah, blah, blah, this different stuff where every day, that's what I was talking about with my mom, every day I have like eight things. So I have my notes every day that are printed out with what I have to do that day. At the top of that every day is all of the things that I should do for like a basic successful day, meaning drink two liters of water, call or text my mom, stretch, meditate, like the basics and I cross them off as I go throughout my day and then if I get them, if I cross them all, I have a calendar at home on my wall that I put a giant red X on with a sharpie for that day because what happens is if you get three Xs and number one, you're tracking it. So you know what you're doing, you know if you're doing good or bad, that alone makes a huge impact. Then saying, I don't, I feel like I'm pretty good this week, you know, you're forced to be aware. Yes, and then what happens is you might have a long day, you might have not done very well, but you get home and you see three Xs in the last three days on those, on that calendar and you know that today you're not gonna get one, you'll do the extra stuff. Like you'll be like, ah, whatever, I'm just gonna chug the water. Keep the street going. Yeah, you keep the street going. And you notice too, like, you know, you have a big night of drinking or you have some whatever thing and you have like four blank days and then you kind of get it back together and you get a chain going and then something happens and you start to learn what gets you off and what keeps you on and what, you know, and just being able to track that on the most basic form with a sharpie and some paper really, really helps. Which one of those basics is the most challenging for you to get consistently? It's, for some reason it's the water. Drinking two liters of water. I don't know why. I just every, like literally every day it's almost always the thing on there because I think maybe because it's throughout the whole day, like you'll get home and be like, I have to drink a liter and a half of water and I really don't feel like, you know, and like you have to, because the other one's like, read and it's kind of these things that you can do. At least you're knocking out the real important ones I feel like. Yeah, but still, that's such a stupid thing to not be doing, you know what I mean? Like I find myself now, like the last week I've been like, okay, drink the water. Drink like you're in the Uber. Drink the water, you know what I mean? And just it's stupid, but. Other than that, what are your biggest challenges with business right now? Biggest challenges I think is just amount of content needed. God in the truth. You know, as a whole. We're in a content war right now, I feel like. Yeah. Is that why you started the vlog? Yeah, and I'm doing a terrible job at it. You know, like I should be, I should be. There's no reason why I'm not posting a vlog every day and a podcast and a blah blah blah. I mean, there's just no reason. It's what you should be doing, but it's so hard. And once again, walking around pointing a camera at your face all day is so stupid. And when you're trying to just, I don't know, I just, the way my brain works, it just feels so show off-y to me. Yeah. It's so vain. I feel you. And it's just like, ugh. It was so hard to get on Instagram. It was so, this guy was like hammering on me, get on Instagram and I'm looking through it and I'm like, let's go grandpa. This is how we're going to build this fucking business. I'm like, this is narcissism. None of the kids are gonna listen to us if you don't get on fucking Instagram. I mean, fitness on Instagram is just a pile of shit. It's fucking narcissism. Helen was so difficult to get on, but it's a tool. It's a business tool. You got to use it and get over that, you know. Even these guys will be like, you have to post more photos of yourself. Stop posting like doing a podcast today. Don't look at me. And I'm like, it's so stupid. I know. Like what's my, then you have to worry about your caption. What's your caption? Like, yeah. Kill it today. Just kill it. Look at me in this chair with a headset on. Like you can do it too. So I don't know. I just naturally shy away from it. But yes, it's just across the board. Like you have to be communicating every day with something of good quality and something of good value. And it's like, how the hell? So I got to do that from my thing. Young and reckless has to be doing that. And it's hard. That's definitely the biggest challenge. More than ever, the brand means the person behind it. More than ever. It wasn't like that before, but now it's all you. It's like, if they know you and they like you, your brand would do well. It's so true. And I always said it like, when I first started Young and Reckless, me being on a reality show, I thought was a detriment. It was not good because these brands at the time were like, they were mysterious and they had this cool factor. And it was like, oh, I think this guy owns it. And I heard he has seven Ferrari. You know what I'm saying? That's this guy over here. So are you mysterious? Yes, you are. So I have to tell you the story. So Taylor, the only reason Taylor's sitting in on this podcast today. So truth be told. So Taylor doesn't even podcast with us. He's actually runs our whole social media side. But I said, did you got to be on this podcast with Chris because I know that this guy, how we met, he was only 23 years old. So this is fucking 10 years ago. And we're playing basketball together. I'm so fascinated by this kid that he has the ability to come in the gym at 11 and then three. And I'm like, what the fuck is this kid doing? Nice shoes on, dress nice, dress in court. What are you doing? So you're gonna have a Facebook business. At this time, this is 10 years ago. It was Twitter. It was Twitter. Oh, it was Twitter. Okay, so yeah, so he's got a social media business. And at this time, I'd heard of people that have made money that way, but I'd never met anybody yet. And here's this 20 something year old kid and I'm super fascinated by him. Like, dude, we gotta have lunch. Like you've created like a six figure business off of fucking Twitter. Like, come on, I gotta have lunch. I'm still fascinated. Yeah, right? So we have lunch and we talk all about it. And he basically kind of shows me the ropes. And that's actually when I turned my Instagram on, but he created an apparel company. And I'm teasing him because, you know, he doesn't, here's no images of him all the time. He's Mr. Undercover. Yeah, I see. Do people think you're like really cool? Well, I don't do it anymore. I've read it. I've read it, I've read it. I've read it, I've read it, I've read it, I've read it. Just your think that. I don't know, but you build up this image and in street wear, particularly, it's all about how cool do you look or how cool do you appear to be, right? And it's all about perception. Perception is everything. And when I started meeting more and more people in the street wear world, when I started hanging out on Fairfax more and going to the Nike Air Mag events and you start meeting all these people, you're like, oh, this is all fake. Yeah. Like they're idiot. They're running these cars. They're living with their parents. I'm over here like, I have my own spot and I'm like really trying to do it. I'm really trying to live it. And then you get exposed to it and you're like, everything you thought it was supposed to be is not. Yep, 100%. And I just think like, you know, I guess what I was getting at is I thought, so it was kind of in the day where that, those were the guys that were killing it, right? They were the mysterious, sometimes fake life, just baller, right? And so me being like, hey, it's me, drama from fancy maker. Like, it wasn't good, you know? So I tried as much as I could to actually sort of be in the background, you know? I mean, obviously people are gonna know I own it. I have to post about it and stuff because I have all these followers. But like, I did marketing campaigns with Meek Mill and Machine Gun Kelly in the early days. And all my stuff was like, how can I do stuff with other people? Because it can't be like my thing. The point is now, eight years later, it has to be my thing. I have to be out front showing you how I run the business. Like just the opposite. And so it's like, all right, well, shit, here we go. You know, like, let's get it and try to do this right. But it just has changed. I just think street wear is still people like mystery and they like the, you know, it's like rappers, but a lot of the people that are winning are just out front and the fans feel connected to them. I mean, Logan Paul is like selling $30 million a year in merch. Like that's a huge clothing line. Those kids, I've watched both those two, man. They are unbelievable what they're doing. I was just telling these guys how we're, we are part of this changing. And it's funny, we're here in LA and Hollywood and stuff and I'm like, dude, is Hollywood gonna die in the next 10 years, bro? Is Netflix gonna take over movies and famous people are gonna be YouTubers and shit like that? It is, all you gotta do is look at little kids. I have two kids and they don't know shit about who's on TV or movies, but they know who their favorite YouTube stars are. We go to the store, we buy stuff based on what the YouTube stars say. That's the future, man. That's so crazy, it's so true, but it's so crazy. Imagine if like, you saw Brad Pitt walking down the street and then like some unknown YouTube like- Like Logan Paul walking by. And like kids would be like, wah, like go to the YouTuber and Brad Pitt would just do his thing. They do events, these YouTubers do events. My kids wanted me to go to one. And I'm like, who is this guy? I don't know, I'm like, oh, he's my favorite YouTuber. They open presents and play with toys or some bullshit, I don't know. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. I'm trying so hard not to sound like old and like, that's stupid, you know, but like- Get off my lawn. If that's what it is, that's what it is. It's going that way. I mean, when you look at Netflix and stuff, I mean, you're seeing these guys, I just saw like just the other day, I saw the first trailer for like a real movie, man. Netflix made. Yeah. The one with Will Smith. Yeah, and then the next thing you see, and you talk about Logan Paul, those guys, they're in movies now. Yeah. Yeah, you see them in movies. I mean, it's coming. Well, think about it. If you're a movie studio, or you're a production studio, you want to make a movie. You got this kid over here with, you know, 20 million subscribers to the YouTube channel. You only got to pay him a half a million dollars to be in your movie. And you know you're going to have a guaranteed audience. You ain't going to pay $15 million to Tom Cruise. Where's the art though? Are we going to lose good shit? Oh, man. I don't know. That's the big quit. That's where I think we sound old. Because I think, I think we sound old. I think there are parents when, or let's say our grandparents, right? When like TV first started, they were probably like, you kids, like you don't know what's real. You know what I'm saying? Like I think it was probably the same. Or like when rap music, imagine Eminem, like it was like, you guys do not know music. Are you telling me all music is going to be this garbage or this talentless hack? You know what I mean? Now he's like the legend. I just, I don't know. I think it's, I think it's just how things like evolve and where it goes. I think it's our perspective, but it's scary. I can't be the same. It looks like garbage. Damn it. Like to me, I watch it and I'm like, what? The world's over. Yeah. I guess it's everyone in their house making vlogs and that's, those are our celebrities now. Excellent. Well, thanks for letting us talk to you, man. That was great, man. We could do this for hours. Oh, absolutely. Bro, if you would have brought a blunt, we would have, man. Yeah, don't say that. If you would have brought a blunt, we would have just, we would have went two hours plus easily next time, next time. You gotta, you gotta come visit us up in San Jose. We have a whole studio and everything. We could do all kinds of media. We got video equipment, green screen. We have a whole recording. That's awesome, man. I would love to. And anytime. It's like the fantasy factory of podcasts. Yeah. It's just a little nerdy or, it's a lot of wire. Yeah. We're the coolest nerds. That's really awesome. Yeah. We're the coolest nerds. No, that's cool, man. I love it. Anything I can do ever for you guys or if you'll have me back on or whatever I'm here. Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure, brother. Appreciate it. Go over to YouTube, check out Mind Pump TV. We post a new video every single day. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance, and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. 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