 All right. So I'm Sam Crote. Like, like Greg said, I work for Stealth Energy Group in Williston. And I don't know if you can hear Harold or me without the microphone. This might be kind of awkward. But we're going to talk to you today about slope reclamation, steep slopes and risk management with that. All right. So first off, what is the importance of slope, steep slope reclamation. So we have, here we have two different examples and this will be both from Energy Transfer, a company that does move transport, grass and crude oil and produce water. So this is in Pennsylvania. And on the left we have one scenario and on the right is a different picture for a different scenario. And this is really just like a worst case, like a catastrophic example, but this is what can happen if we don't take into consideration our steep slopes. So you can see this is just what a slip is, a slip or a slide, like a landslide is what we're going to be talking about today. You can see where the soil has sloughed off and it actually exposed the pipe in one of these situations and then it lit on fire and caused a huge forest fire. So literally everything you could think of went wrong. So in this situation, the revolution and the other one was the rover. They had two different scenarios by the same company within the same year. They were fined up to $30 million in their fines and then the reclamation and reinstallation of the construction was upwards of that as well. So I just wanted you to keep that in the back of your mind. This doesn't happen often in North Dakota, but, you know, little mini accidents of this can can happen and could be catastrophic to everybody. Yeah, in this instance here, you can see the right away. It comes down makes it 90 goes out. That's energy transfers like the participation that we had was the yellow line marker that you can see right here. And then a group of yellow vests and the white hard adds that happened to be the client I was working for that I'm there in line. So, in many of these instances, there are multiple operators that run 15 right away. So as the lines are installed over extended time periods, the potential risk to several operators is significant. Once again, I'll go first. Since I've got the microphone. I'm Harold Rhodes. I've worked in civil construction for several years, worked in the woods working steep slopes. And most recently focused on reclamation. And I'm Sam and I've been working with Harold on a lot of these projects. A lot of the examples we're going to talk about today actually take place in Ohio and West Virginia. But we'll kind of walk you through how we can make these connections back to North Dakota and how they're applicable here. So mass wasting is kind of our first term that we're going to throw out there today and it's really kind of just what it sounds like and the main explanation of a slip. So you have a large mass of soil that is like wasting down the hill. So it's just sliding down the hill and you can see at the bottom of this photo up here that there's like a big pile of sludge at the bottom. So it's just soil moving downward of a slope by gravity. They can happen in slumps slips debris flows down the hill. It's often lubricated by a rainfall that can happen from seismic activity. We can have springs that are underground naturally occurring that could be feeding it and causing it to slip off. Intense rainfall is another one that we saw in Ohio and West Virginia. They get very violent rains and very often, and especially on a fresh wider way this could happen. Yeah, so when we look at this, once again, this is one of our client right of ways to the right. To the right that's our dirt side of the trench for those that are familiar with kind of a pipeline terminology. On the left here that was the actual trench line. What we found that what we found was that that a vast majority of our slips were directly related to the hydraulic conductivity related to the disturbance of the installation of the pipeline. Specifically, what we found was the location of those trench breakers and ensuring that we had adequate drainage after adjacent to those transpiration. So as we come down the hill here, each one of these slips where we started seeing water actually coming out of the ground was directly adjacent to those trench breakers. So how do we describe slopes and what is slope so slope is just rise over run that's how I think of it that's how we were taught from it so we can see we have the run over the rise or under the rise. So a lot of the slopes that we're dealing with in these scenarios are probably very steep to extreme so greater than 35% slopes and just for a reference to the construction world we have a two to one slope would be 50 and then like a three to one and four to one or like less steep. So we're dealing with like the three to two to one slopes in these situations. One of those things to that they commonly occur as far as what we're looking at that potentially could be a risk or something that we want to be aware of some environmental standpoint is this right here. Every instance, at the bottom of these swells dips valley straws would have been common is that and that is surface water that surface water is a almost universal trigger for various reporting obligations, if it were in fact. This was you. Yep. This is me. Okay, so some people we look at that from a, from a operator producer perspective. One of the things we're looking at potentially risk is risk to system integrity. So this right here the right here that comes up with our main line that the slope started to fail just upgrade, putting that out set here, and then about that it's looking here back in this location, also under tension to where it was actually pulling same thing with this one here this was adjacent to well bad, and that the drainage was pulling right here along the baseline and actually saturating the soil is right above that wetland and then once again water is an automatic trigger. So it's from a reporting actions that way. So when we think about the risks of slope stabilization, the EPA actually has a list of environmental risk that they put together. And the main ones that come to mind are most of the ones from the EPA but risk to public safety risk to the environment and risk to system integrity. So, we also look at the cultural risk so is there. This kind of goes with the public safety cultural social so if we go back to the most extreme case that we looked at if we have a slip that's causing a fire and taking out people's livelihoods that are loggers and they live in the woods so that's a very large risk to them. When we talk about economic risk, is it going to cost us a lot of money, yes it's going to cost a lot of money to fix it's going to cost those landowners and homeowners a lot of money to relocate. And then for a legal risk as well that the EPA poses is this going to get us into a legal battle as the operator likely yes it's going to be a long road ahead of you. And like Harold said water is going to be a trigger to report this so immediately then you're into the legal battle. So application here in North Dakota we kind of mentioned already. And a lot of your minds probably went to the bad land setting anything in the park on the Forest Service land. Those are the types of landscapes that we're going to find this most often. There are pads that aren't in the bad land setting that are just up on hill slopes that are going to have very steep slopes I know there's some compressor stations and power stations that sit up on a hill, and their slopes are really hard to stabilize. So, new construction so pads and pipelines that run across hilly landscapes, creeks and stream crossings like Harold was saying the water at the bottom of that slope. There's going to be impacts to that to like if you have to cross the stream during pipeline construction. Reclamation, of course, and remediation and response I think it's important to a spill response, if it's a spill to water or if it's close to water. Some digging halls that we do, there's going to be a lot of reconstruction that goes into that. Another thing that I think is really interesting in this specific photograph which obviously this is North Dakota is some of the variation in the actual plant communities. It's kind of a critical kind of first indication of potentially what could be a suitable or ideal plant community for futures, reclamation or ultimately respiration. All right, so how do we characterize triggers or how do we find out if the slip or how the slip happened or the triggers that made it happen. Steve slopes is the first one I mean let's not overlook the obvious I mean last night we talked about simple over fancy and not overthinking it like are you going to have a difficult time walking up this slope like without assistance or are you going to tumble all the way down if you try to attempt. Yeah, we've both done that a lot. And here, especially in the bad land setting like a coal seam outcrop you see the coal seams right by so if you try to pile a whole soil profile on top of a very weak coal seam, I mean just think about what you what happened in your head it's going to slip off. Calluvial soils I mean the slips are exactly what that says it's just caused by gravity you see rock outcrop on the bottom. And maybe it revenge itself and you haven't expected it in a while you could make the assumption that this has fallen down in the past seats and natural drainage kind of goes together. So that's one of what we experienced out east was natural drainage channels there's springs in North Dakota everywhere they come out of nowhere, and it just, you know, it makes a week for foundation for these soils. Back to that what what we really found interesting after, you know, looking at some of these issues that help cover our Western West Virginia is that a lot of these potential risks or triggers would have been evident during that initial survey and storm water planning inspection. And that was one of our other, you know, big takeaways is that we did identify this initially. So, as far as the potential risk considerations as Sam said earlier, what we're looking at is our landowners. Our landowners are one of the primary or initial stakeholders that we engage when we start looking at what is the initial or interim recommendation going to look like. And that goes as far as the various plant species that they would like to see. Oftentimes, if it's in an area that they could pay or farm or want to maintain that will dictate a specific grass or plant community. But when we get in some of these areas to where there's physically not going to be any access. The industry almost always uses that same species on those speech slots. And that's that I think that's one of the primary issues from the industry perspective to where there needs to be kind of a change that plant species groups need to be specific. Same thing with environmental. When we look at that, all of those potential risks are typically captured within that initial desktop survey from erosion potentials to surface waters, receptors. And also we're looking at system integrity how to maintain it where some of the corrosion control or our CP stations stuff like that, ensuring that those critical infrastructure management pieces are located in areas that we can reach and access is absolutely critical. And then that goes into the system operation of maintenance. They're expecting or we assume that that asset is going to be in operation for years for decades. So ensuring that that all of these critical access points are in fact accessible is really key. All right, so precipitation is our best friend right and worst enemy. So the maps on the left side there are really anything that you wouldn't expect to see. They're just showing the 30 year average rainfall on the top is June and on the bottom is September. So like we would expect there's going to be more rainfall in North Dakota in June and less in September. And you can see it's not uniform across the state. So far goes a lot different than Wilson. So you just need to take these into consideration when you're making your remediation plans, but reclamation excuse me. But when we think about slips 70% of our slips happen when the soil is completely saturated so when it's in a saturated high precipitation those heavy violent rainfalls that's when most of them happen. And with that if you're looking to reclaim a stream crossing where you have a steep slope that you need to do some construction first and then do some biological after you need to plan around the rain events so planting the like some shrubs or some doing some brush bundles that you know it might not work best when you're expecting a rain right away. But sometimes it will if you need to establish vegetation. So incorporating best practices and site specific scenarios. So I think it's very important to look at the excavator in the bottom corner. It's cute. It's like where's wallow. So I think it's important to think about all the things that we're going to walk you through the remainder of the presentation before you even start so the reclamation starts before you start work. So like Harold mentioned in the pre construction survey. A lot of these things are going to happen first. While you're doing construction you need to think about it like tell the operators to look for springs look for water look for difference in soil profile. Did you see a coal seam or something we didn't pick up. Reclamation of course that includes the seeding portion of things if it is to be seated picking the right seed mixes operations and restoration kind of go hand in hand so you're going to have to do maintenance you're going to have to do inspections. You're probably going to have to go back and do some more construction on some of them and kind of spot fix, but it's important to talk or think of these steps all the way through the process. Yeah, that's exactly right. Successful restoration begins with effective pre destruction that that's the only way there is no alternative if we don't plan for hopefully responding sites. Then there's there really is no other way that we're not aware of that. I absolutely agree with that. You start up now. So when when Sam mentioned best practices best practices, kind of within you know how we view this is those existing best practices, you know the little details that we see in every set of drawings. You know how do we install these things how do we install a lot of where they located where these various things are applicable. Inspection frequency how do we maintain all of that falls within kind of a conventional industry standard best practices. The potential best practices is where Sam comes in. So the way I like to think about it is the best practices that we have right now are silk fence waddles straw matting the things that you see everywhere hay bales all that good stuff. But the way that we're thinking about it and trying to propose it to everybody is that there are potential best practices that someday may be our new best practices. So it's not that we're trying to hate on so fence and waddles they do their job, but they're temporary right they're supposed to be taken out they're not permanent. So that's where the waddles are going to turn into brush bundles so bundles of sticks or straw or just vegetation biomass that you see and you make your own natural waddle, and you put it there. So Tom DeSutter has always told me in reclamation rough and loose. And when I look at what I'm out and doing a reclamation is what does it look like 100 yards over there let's let's make it look like that. So there's rocks everywhere like let's put rocks everywhere. Like that's what it was before we got here. So thinking about it that way like soil nails would become live stakes like using really long branches as anchors. Like we can think about how they did it 100 400 years ago and kind of make it look like that. So this goes back directly to one of the project reviews earlier, we started looking at an asset like some of the issues we were facing in Ohio and West Virginia. And what ultimately caught the attention of folks down south is that our slope stabilization and main that's a separate pair of costs. In many cases exceeded the cost to install. And at that point we had everybody's. So what we done in Ohio is that we went through and looked at all these reached out to multiple engineers in that area that had existing historical and kind of a geographic background understanding of the specific areas. So we went through and created our new typical best practice details, details that were sufficiently detailed that we could then provide our operators are construction teams are construction groups and vendors with this is how we're going to address or approach some of these various activities. Right here is one of those details, as we approach some of these areas that we run into this condition will one of the six different details alternatives be applicable. We even went to the extent where we're discussing proper how to determine our product or how to actually the importance of moisture were using a line. So we can actually calculate and ensure that we're getting proper suspicion compassion. And that was that more than anything was critical to ensuring that the work was being done completely. We had a great design. We had outstanding crews, but they simply weren't familiar with some of those critical details didn't cost anyone to do it like didn't take any more time to do it right. And they were really accepting and for each kind of you know this is what we're looking for this is how we want to do it. So the way that we're kind of proposing our that potential investment practices are on a geo technical level and a biological level so first we have the geo solutions and we have gabion cages, which are just, I'm sure you're all familiar with them they're kind of just like gated cages with rocks in them. Soil nails are just like concrete anchors that can be concrete they can be steel they can be whatever you want to drive into the soil as an anchor geo webbing is listed up here and I think this is similar to the talk last night of the con mods she may have mentioned, but you would fill these in with soil and they'd make like little little pockets for things to grow and hold soil, and geotech fabrics which looks like on the very left side. And we use synthetic fabric in some of our designs as well. What one of the things I think it's interesting, I don't know if everybody here. One of the things that I think it's really fascinating is this geotech solution is trying to come from an engineering standpoint, duplicate what that biological solution or history would be. And I think that's really what, what we would hope you start working towards is that that basically is a synthetic work system. A synthetic drainage system trying to mitigate that. Whereas, you know, an effective plant community getting things developed and in place does exactly what you're saying what the effects. So now we have the biotech case example so. The goal is we figured that, like what Harold just said the geotech fabric like let's get away from that and try to do a phyto or biological approach to one of these projects. So, our goal right is to get a really good root system as the anchors into the soil to stabilize it. And at the same time we had some water drainage issues so to say in a healthy way get rid of that water it was just going to be uptick by the plants. So what we did is we did a very intensive vegetation survey on a bunch of right of ways and we found a bunch of shrubs forbs and grasses and just compiled everything that we had and then we went to a bunch of nurseries that were local, and it was always to get the source that we needed but we found button bush elderberry, we had some snowberry, no not snowberry, snow gray dogwood, and a suite of other shrubs that we wanted to plant. So we sourced hundreds, probably thousands of these bushes that are four foot seedlings, and we hooked out there and we started planting them in the slips, like wherever you found a crack that it was sliding off right there, the the scar we would just shove a bunch of plants in there. So a little anecdote for everyone. Apparently if you're carrying four foot seedlings of very inconspicuous plants through the backwoods of West Virginia, it's maybe from the pond or a little questionable. Harold got a call from his superior who got a call from his superior who was notified. Yeah, who notified him that the SWAT team was on their way to check out a group of people who are planting illegal marijuana plants in the middle of the woods in West Virginia. So not 15 seconds later, my phone rings and Harold said, don't be alarmed. The SWAT team is on their way. Okay. All right, why he tells me and not 10 seconds later I look up and there's a helicopter just flying over us. So if you ever think you're not being watched, you're being watched. But yeah, after that we planted all the bushes that we sourced from someone else and we're like, hey, why can't we do this ourselves. So we went ahead and we built a greenhouse. And what we did was we took a bunch of transects, we went out and we clipped clippings off the trees and shrubs and forbs and we brought them back to the greenhouse and we wanted to see at the scale that we had and the skills and resources that we had what transplants would survive. If we had everything we needed we could get them all to survive but which ones right now would make it. So we narrowed it down to some species that would work and we decided like these are the ones that we could transplant. I wanted to make a connection back to the talk last night for those that were here. I think there was a dwarf burning bush was maybe the species that was recommended by one of the nurseries but we decided to go against it because it was an invasive species. But we kind of looking back after the talk last night and we talked about it too. It was like, if we're trying to get a very good root system and we want as many plants as we can out there, don't we want something somewhat invasive. So they're like what's worse like having an invasive species that's already present there, but, or having a slip that could lead to something catastrophic like in Ohio it can be very catastrophic North Dakota maybe not as bad. That's just something to think about like maybe you know weeds aren't that bad was the thing last night so I'm not saying go plant invasive species but just think about it like what's what's worse and is this something that we could manage the species for a while. So in this example we you know we haven't completed or gotten rid of all the slips out there with this product but another really good point that we made that leads back to like the landowners is that they were all very happy with the species that we picked because they were food plots for all the deer and all the turkey that they hunt out there. So that was something that really you know this is you know like two birds three birds four birds four birds with one stone like we can knock off a lot of those risks with this method. Yeah, and that was exactly it so the landowner, you know our land department went through the kind of identification of what plants were going to plant that came early early on in the project, and the landowner is already kind of time for you know what's going to be coming and having this conversation trying to characterize what we would like to try was a critical component of that and and characterizing it in such a way to hunt on this land. We're going to have food for a while like you're right away to cover the turkeys, you know, and that's a legitimate, you know statement. This right here was a conversation that we built a greenhouse in front of corporate offices for a natural gas and instrument company raised the eyebrows. So, but the purpose of it was, was kind of understood you know within time, the guys kind of understood, you know why we're doing it how we were trying to do it it's going to save money. We're not going to have any guys have to climb down in critical steep slope, but another kind of anecdotal story about that as well. We had an opportunity to speak to the landowner where the office and one of the professor station was located. Historically, before he sold it. It was a great one. And he was ecstatic that after we planted or built the greenhouse and explain to him what we're trying to do. They're having lunches and potlucks and sharing information that really really wasn't there. And then positive on this one here, what we're looking at is the top just like I spoke earlier about, you know, developing a proctor trying to explain how that proctor is a critical component when we're looking at action and various soils, but also the methods and how we can develop methods that can be deployed or utilized that are very, very effective and easily to can be easily completed by, by our vendors and contractor base that we all already have. So, you know, as far as how do we incorporate alignment of soils, all of that, you know, it really went seamless. And that was our focus we, we provided some of these potential or alternative best practices as a function. So when we look at the function, this is what we need to do and then reached out to them. How do we do that? You know, what equipment would be best to do that? How do we approach that? How do we kind of realize what we're trying to do there? And actually made our contractors part of the solution in terms of extraordinary help. Yeah, then the other two photos here we just have on the right, all the tree branches that were harvest during the reclamation phase. And I feel like our most pipeline right of ways here that would kind of just be something you would shrug off and be like, Oh, we could burn it or, you know, maybe we'll just leave it in a pile. Here we actually made those brush bundles and you can make those brush bundles out of those are live steaks or something. So we did that. And then the bottom photo is just a little look into my life of installing shrubs for months. But that's the slopes that you're dealing with and you can kind of see where it's slipping off there. So that's the target of like the top of the scarf where we wanted to introduce those roots. Yeah, the problem this one is that the slip had had stabilized itself. So one of the questions we had is, can we go into some of these areas that have historically had issues and prevent or mitigate things working. So this was in an ideal location. There was a potential threat to surface water or anything like that. We were able to be really effective here. Going back to Sam mentioned on the brush bundles from an operator or construction standpoint, I'm already spending that money. You know, when we purchase bottles, when we purchase silk and when we go through the installation of all of that cost is already built into the project. We aren't doing something extra. We aren't doing something more. We aren't adding costs. We're just trying to approach that problem with the resources and budgets we already have to do it a slightly different way. So here we're looking at post construction. So one of the issues that we've had, and I'll pitch this right off the back, just get rid of it every time I look at it, is that thing right there. That is a temporary control structure. Everybody's familiar with the cell fats. What I have a problem with is that our right of ways have already achieved 70% of education. So temporary structures at P, they're temporary. So one of the other primary risk triggers for some of our failures was that these temporary structures become semi permanent and they're never ruined. Not only are they never removed, oftentimes they're forgotten and they're not maintained. What will happen is debris, leaf litter and debris piles up against our cell fences. It'll create a plug and all of a sudden this silk fence becomes a new trench bracket. And then what that does is that actually start to cool up water pretty soon. I have a little hole in the box out and I'll have a little soft spot down the gradient of my silk fence. That did not mean to be there to begin with. Then what happens, the rest of the slope is up there and it sheets the next time I run. And somehow it finds that little hole from that pile of leaves that got plugged up against the silk fence that didn't need to be there. And then I have a slow failure. So some of these things from maintenance and operation standpoint, when those control temporary control features are no longer needed, they do need to be low. So and they may be changed, they may be relocated, or they may be no longer necessary. And it's critical that we're out there inspecting and when they're no longer needed, we pull them out. And I think just to touch on the bio side of things, those can be more permanent, right? Because they're natural, they look natural, they're part of the landscape and those are things that we can leave in place. So those are positive alternatives to those. Yeah, that's like with the brush bundles as an alternative to waddles is those brush bundles will naturally decay and break down. So two to three years down the road, a lot of those control features, the potential negative as far as how water is going to hit them or inhibiting water flow, they've already begun to decay. So it's the ideal solution from kind of that inner erosion control question. So with re vegetation, this starts during that reclamation phase. So I think plant communities, plant diversity, we hear that all the time. That's a huge thing. 70%. So we always hear 70% vegetation and then that's when that's when we're good. So how do we get there is is the problem. And that's where everything that we've showed today is just, you know, it's not a formula or an equation for a one size fits all. Just a few more things to get everyone to think about. And that I think last night's talk was really good about that too, like everything's not going to work, but at least you're making efforts, and then you can go back and adjust the next time. So methods up there drilling broadcasting, hydro mulch, sod and transplant. So broadcasting is really what's going to be happening the most on these steep slopes, you're not going to be able to get equipment like you could on a flat slope in some of these areas. So broadcasting and a combination of hydro mulch, we've done that on a lot of them and had a really good success. So sod and transplants, transplants is what we considered with those seedlings. We also did plugs like small, this grass plugs, and had good success with that as well. Yeah, and we did we looked through all of those so if it was a potential soil handling candidate, we looked at green states. When we look at it, you know, potentially changing up the, the seed varieties that are going to be in specific areas and we went down to sunny to shade, you know, and from a discussion standpoint, you know, is there a better suited plant species for one side of these trials than the other. And in those areas where there potentially could be changes, several changes within that kind of ideal or optimal species that kind of hydro mulch was kind of the ideal situation. Another thing in it would apply to not to go right away as well. When we look at it from kind of a historical or what that pre existing plant community was, and kind of the microbiotic community that would have been present in a wooded plant community versus what we're trying to grow in a grass community. And that hydro mulching allowed us to kind of try and mitigate or correct that as well. This is starting to get more just towards a summary. One of the things that we realized right at the get go that that right away inspections are a critical aspect of cost effective, a environmentally reliable redway maintenance program. So when in this location, what we done is is located a camera and actually flew all these right ways with a low level over life with a high definition camera with one of our right away inspectors. So as we flew through some of these areas, you can see here, this is kind of our general right away, you can see the map coming with their access in some of these areas, some of our temporary control measures. In this case, you can see very dirt so it's applicable or appropriate. And then some of the erosion control that not a big fan. But this was the exact, or an ideal way to inspect these rivals. So that was one of the things that we changed that annually we would go through and just take that low level slow flight through these areas and just see if anything condition wise, potentially have changed. The establishing of authority. What we're looking at is kind of empowering our operations through to be able to raise concerns or questions. If something is impossible to do something is wrong. If something is extraordinarily difficult to do, we need to, we need to improve it to see how we can actually, you know, kind of do what we need to do, but we have to be able to do it in a reliable effective and safe manner. You can take that one away. So this, this kind of leads into the comment there, kind of creating that culture of environmental stewardship, huge and extraordinarily helpful and, and developing that relationship with our landowners. It's, it's, well, it's just priceless, you just, you just can't emphasize the same thing with our community and landowners engaging them, whether that be simply asking questions, is there any concerns anything that they would do different. If there's anything that potentially they would have noticed this last one, collaborating with academic NGOs regulatory agencies and other industry departments. There is an extraordinary amount of expertise knowledge and skills available that that I believe are working. I'm seeing that question in various forms. See how much trouble I have to speak. So as awkward as my questions may have been has been extraordinarily helpful, kind of developing some of these digital methods before. I think just to touch on that, we, we did learn a lot from our landowners and we're out there I think that was after the first couple projects we were like hey, first step let's just go talk to the landowner and we walked out there with them. They showed us where the slips were because they're out there every single day, and they're like hey this one happens then and this one always happens or this one's new, like why. There's bedrock outcrops here, and there's an old bridge that this carriage used to cross paths like 300 years ago, things that we never would have maybe seen with our eye because we're thinking about different things so use your resources and in any sort of construction practices don't be afraid to reach out to landowners and talk to them get to know them and get to know their land because they know the best. I want to make comments that my tractor gets stuck there every day. You know, those are those are the kind of critical information and comments. And they're going to freely share that every, every time you speak with them, you know they're going to drop those pearls of wisdom. And we just have some links I think this will be posted so some resources for everyone and Harold and I are happy to be your resources as well. So that improving steep steep slow pipeline construction that was a collaboration between the nature Conservancy and several different pipeline companies as they were looking at kind of the existing best product best practices and what potentially could be potentially best practices I found it extraordinarily helpful in in kind of engaging that kind of function conversation with a lot of our contractors and operators. Another thing when I was young back in the 80s I worked on steep slopes but it was in a completely different industry. It was for a small company and twist wash we can call it Lloyd block. And in some cases we draw the closures up and down ridiculously steep slopes and other cases we walked up and down. A lot of the information that we have here, and some of the technical resources. This is a century of extraordinarily helpful and applicable information related to the logging industry that is directly to how steep slopes and some of the more service information is absolutely the best. And I think sometimes, sometimes we may operate in a little bit of a bubble, and we don't try to find those similarities than other industries. Questions. Questions. Yeah, question. We're not going to worry about a basic thing worse if you thought about something that actually works like. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Take that up with your local forest service route. I want to say thank you to me to have this anecdotal and stuff like this that we don't think that's one big thing to this conference that's really kind of the last part that we had on this. Oh, sorry, another question. Yeah. No. I have a good comment we've talked about that too, and like with the pre construction, this needs to start then, and with the routing, like, exactly get that data first and then make your route, and then do an inspection so you're, you know, double tapping it. Absolutely. I'm pre existing or current right away center in place. Right now we have that that information is publicly available from us gs recent landsat nine to some of the other wide are related. That literally isn't your thing. I can't act that I don't understand that. I know what's there and I can get that that's absolutely right. That information is there, having or utilizing that or trying to incorporate it. Absolutely extraordinary. That's just one of those things that we can simply take the ground in and realize that you're absolutely right.