 Well, thank you very much for being part of this morning conversation today, it's all about understanding depression and unemployment, how do they connect and what is the rate of depression when it comes to unemployment, how does unemployment increase the rate of depression in the country? We have many youths who are so concerned about where they're going to get their next source of income. That is an issue that we want to have today in studio. Being part of this conversation is what you do not want to miss. Remember, as we talk about depression, we want to find out what are the things we need to do in order to prevent or reduce the rates of depression in the country. I'm joined by none other than Maureen Gashiru, she is a counsellor and a psychologist. Thank you so much. Thank you for finding time for good morning. Niko poka. You look lovely today. Thank you. And even as you talk about this particular conversation on depression and so that you engage with us on our social media handles, the hashtag is why in the morning at Ram Maguko, and at why to say for channel is where you can find us. Remember, you can also find Maureen. Are you also on social media? Yes, I'm on social media. You can find me on Instagram, underscore Maureen, underscore Gashiru. And you can also follow my rehabilitation centre, New Health Medical Centre. That is where you can find her on social media and also how you can be able to get in touch with her. Remember, we are coming live from the broadcasting house here in Nairobi, Kenya. We are also live on our website at www.kbc.co.ke 4thLashY254. Let's get this conversation going Maureen. I would like first of all to start with what you do. Tell us a bit more about yourself and the things that you engage in, especially as a psychologist and counsellor. Thank you so much. First of all, for having me here. You're welcome. It's awesome to be here. I've never been on TV before. First time? Yes. I'm happy to. I'm happy to have initiated you. Yes. It's a dream come true. It's a dream come true. I know, I know. Thank you. Thank you. So, my name is Maureen Nomboy Gashiru. I am from a place called Gashiru in Kiambu County. And well, I studied counselling psychology at the University of Nairobi just here. Wow. Yes, and I graduated in 2016. After that, well, I didn't start practising counselling immediately because I didn't really know what, I didn't know where to get a job or where to start. You're tracking. Yes. Looking for a place to start from. Yes. When did you get a job? You found a job after how long? I found a job after one year. One year? Yes, after leaving campus. I found my first job in 2018. Yes. And if I get you right, you've had experience in this field. Yes. You know, for many, I don't know how it was for you. They say that within some five years experience. No, I graduated 2016. I took a five years experience. How did you go through that hurdle? It was tough. I had to start from scratch volunteering, doing internships, all those things. And then so when you're doing all those things, you start being exposed to the field. You meet people who show you where you can get jobs and all that. So that is basically how I started. I'm looking at your line of work. You've interacted with people who are depressed. What are some of the stories that you've encountered along the line of duty that have actually touched you? You know, there are those things that will miskill you. You're like, wow, wow. There are those stories that you hear and then they shock you. They take you back a few steps to just think about how things are. What are some of those experiences and encounters you've had with people in this line of work, cancelling them, especially when it comes to depression? Okay. There's this lady who called me last week. Yeah, it was last week. And then she's 20, how old was she? She was 26. She has three kids and her family abandoned her. So she was telling me that she's trying to look for a job, but at the same time she feels like she wants to commit suicide and kill her babies. Wow, wow. It's because of the pressure of the kids. But at the end of 26, and three kids. I think she got the first kid when she was a teenager. So the family felt they needed to isolate themselves from her. They chased her away from home. So she has been on the streets begging, moving from house to house. People sometimes host her relatives. But then it has been so hard for her. Because by the time when she called me, New Health Medical Center had gone to cities and radio. That's where you work? Yes, that's where I work. And we talked about what we do. We are a rehabilitation center. And we also deal with issues to do with mental health. Anything mental health. Depression, loss and grief, suicidal thoughts, all that. So that is where the lady got a number from. She called me. And okay, that was a hard one for me. It was. Because now you don't know how to help. Because now it involves even other people. You're not just dealing with an individual. You're dealing with an individual, the children and the family at large. A person who is in that kind of a position, because I'm sure that someone is watching and they are in that position and they have no clue on what to do. What would be just that piece of advice that you can give them as a counselor? So number one, the first thing I'd recommend that always works is seeking professional help. In every government hospital nowadays, you'll find there counselors or rather just mental health professionals. So the minute you walk into a hospital, just tell the doctor that whatever you're dealing with, it could be suicidal ideations or depression. It could be you don't even know what is going on, but you feel you're not okay. Because sometimes that is what people report. I just feel my life is a mess and I feel lost. I don't know what to do anymore. So just walk into a hospital, ask for a counselor. Talk to somebody. Talk to someone. What are some of the things that always push someone into having suicidal thoughts? Because we're looking at unemployment. And remember this is depression and unemployment specifically. Unemployment. How far can it go? Because every Kenyan is looking for a job. Almost every Kenyan. But not all. Almost every Kenyan is looking for a job. But what differentiates one person from another to the point that two people who graduated on the same year are having different mindsets. One wants to commit suicide and another is still trying to get to make those applications. What triggers these thoughts of suicide? Okay, the first thing I know triggers everyone is underlying issues. If you have issues that happened in the past and you haven't dealt with them, they will always present themselves in the future. Always. So these issues that you talk about now come in and are triggered by unemployment? They can be triggered by unemployment if they are related. Say in the past maybe you've been rejected. And then right now you're trying to look for a job. And then you get rejected. You get rejected. So you'll start feeling you're not worthy, you're helpless, you're hopeless, you're sad all the time, all those things start bombarding your mind. So you start feeling like... Okay, the employment acts as a precipitating factor or something that triggers whatever has been underlying. So how does someone separate these two issues? What happened to me in the past and what is happening to me right now? Is there a way that you can be able to separate these emotions? Or is it how hard can it be? Okay, it's hard. It's hard because most people, honestly speaking, most people are not self aware. Most people, they don't have the emotional intelligence to actually acknowledge that this is how I'm feeling and this is what I need to do about it. Most people will just feel and then they will, you know, they don't even know what to do with their emotions. They cover it up. And it is quite interesting what you're saying, Maureen. Being self aware is actually a step towards recovery. Yes. I've had so many conversations on depression and I don't know if it is two weeks ago, we were looking into suicide awareness, it was suicide awareness day and I was having this particular conversation with someone and then they were saying that being self aware is actually what can separate you from having suicidal thoughts because you know what triggers you, you know what affects you. How then can someone improve their sense of comfortability, their sense of awareness? How can someone improve their sense of comfortability, because you will get rejected so many times. Yes, so many times. You will go to apply in so many institutions and some will even throw your CV out in front of you, before your eyes. What you are saying, you are nothing. Yes. How do you, what should someone do to have that hard skin because in life, of course, life can throw your calf ball. Yes. And unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. Yes, you can't control. You can't control how people treat you. You can't. What do you do? So normally self awareness is divided into three concepts and the first thing about self awareness is accepting your self image or the way you see yourself. Yes. You must first of all accept your physical self. Love yourself. Love yourself. Acknowledge that you exist. You are okay the way you are. Because sometimes you might find someone home. People think they are beautiful, they are handsome, they look good. But for them, they always feel, ah, apana. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. Yes, I'm not good enough. And that's why. It was last week that we were having this conversation about some ladies who go for medically induced body parts. You feel you're not good enough and you get, but you're looking for a job as a secretary and there they want someone who looks in a particular way or as a model. Or someone who looks in a particular way and it affects your self esteem. Yes, of course it will. Because self esteem is the other concept of self awareness. And self esteem is the value that you place on yourself. And it doesn't depend on material possessions. It doesn't depend on the family where you come from or the type of job you have. It's something that comes naturally. There are people who are begging in the streets and they have very high self esteem. Ah. Yes. There is a lawyer or a big person somewhere who doesn't have self esteem. So self esteem isn't about class. No. No. It's about an individual. Yes. Wow. I want us to take a short break. After this we'll be back. But after this when we're coming I want you to tell us what do we need to do to reduce the rate of depression especially among the youth? Is there a solution? Is it possible? We are seeing so many youths kill each other. We need to change the way we live. We need to change the way we live. Because we are saying you have stressed me up. And because of unemployment they can't pay rent. They can't get school fees. They can't get food. And they are suffering outside here. And some end up becoming thieves. And they are youths. We are your neighbors. What do we do? Keep the conversation going on the hashtag Y254 channel. We are taking a short break. We'll be back in a bit. This is Y254. Y254. Imagine.