 Welcome to our interview show in which we interview LGBTQ guests who are important contributors to our community. We want to acknowledge that all things LGBTQ is produced at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which is unceded Indigenous land. Enjoy the show. Hi. Welcome to All Things LGBTQ. We're talking today to Diana Whitney, poet and editor of You Know You Don't Have to Be Everything. It's a cast of 68 poems and is extraordinary. Diana lives in Brattle, Laura, Vermont. She's from South Williamstown, Massachusetts. Author of Workman Publishing. Poet, editor, essay and queer mom of two. Yoga Instruction Instructor. Former poetry columnist at the San Francisco Chronicle. He studied English language at the University of Oxford and studied English and creative writing at Dartmouth College. Quite a resume. So tell us a little bit about this, your upcoming book. Is it already out on the shelves now and ready to be ordered? Yeah. Thank you so much, Linda. I'm so happy to be here. And it's perfect timing. It is out. The official pub date is March 30th. But bookstores here in Vermont already have it. And it's been really exciting to, you know, see some photos of friends holding it up. And yeah, I always recommend to readers if they're going to get the book to go support their local indie bookstore. And you have a lot of Vermont poets in here as well. Yeah. There's a handful of us. I, some well-known names that people will know, Bianca Stone, Alison Prine, and a wonderful younger poet, Rage Hezekiah, who I believe works at the Bennington Writing Seminars. And so when they, what brought you to wanting to do this project particularly? I mean, I think it's a wonderful idea. And so how did you get here? Yeah. I mean, why don't I, y'all just say it's, you know, you don't have to be everything, poems for girls becoming themselves. So it's an inclusive poetry anthology for teen girls. Or really, you know, any young person or of any age in that process of becoming, which I think we all are, you know, in discovery mode. But I really wanted to reach out to that, that group, I guess for me, being a teen girl was, you know, it's a really challenging time. And I, you know, starting from about 13, I really struggled with my mental health, with depression, with self-loathing and body image and self-harming. I mean, really, you know, a big shift from what had been, you know, a happy childhood. So that transition, you know, what I wanted to do was to create, to collect the voices I wish I'd heard as a teen girl. And, you know, also growing up in the 80s, because I'm a, I'm a Gen Xer, it was a really hard time to be LGBTQ. I was, you know, in the closet till I was 20. I'm bisexual. And, you know, my first relationship, and I talk about this in the, you know, a little bit and an introduction to the book, was when I was 13 with my best friend, but it was a secret and there was a lot of shame. And eventually my parents found out and forbade me to see her. And so that, you know, carrying that secret, that heavy secret throughout my whole high school years, like it was, couldn't even really admit it to myself. And I think it, that's a heavy burden. And part of what I wanted to do, bringing this book into the world was to collect the voices of queer poets who were writing openly about queer love, about their identity, about self-love and self-acceptance. And, you know, really thinking kind of imagining my younger self encountering these poems and what that might have been like to hear those voices. And I mean, what a perfect time with all this isolation and, you know, teenage angst of like not being able to be with friends, to be able to communicate and sometimes being stuck in homes that are abusive or don't get them. Yeah. And I will say, I'm also, I'm the mom of two teenage daughters. They're 13 and 15. So, you know, I'm watching them live through, you know, not the same struggles, of course, but, you know, some similar struggles in some ways that I went through, definitely in terms of mental health. And the isolation of this past year has been so hard for teens, especially, you know, there's been a huge rise in anxiety and mood disorders and even teen suicide. I mean, it's really, it's a health crisis beyond the COVID crisis. And we've struggled in our household with some of those really scary times. And, you know, I guess I began this project well before the pandemic. I've been working on it for over two years. But my hope is that poetry can bring us out of our isolation, that reading the poems. I mean, really, I wanted young readers to feel like they're not alone, that not every poem in this book of 68 poems is going to speak to every reader, but there may be a few that really, you know, that voice of truth telling, you know, that, you know, poetry is often cut right to an emotional truth, whether it's because the language is compressed and kind of intensified or through the use of image and different craft tools. And I have to say, I love all forms of writing and I'm a huge novel reader. That's like my favorite, you know, pleasure reading. But there is something about a poem when it speaks to you. So what I hope is that someone, you know, here's I'm going to hold up a book because I'm so happy to hold it in my hand that, you know, someone may look through and find something that brings them out of that sense of isolation and loneliness. In the book, it's it's actually also it's illustrated, which I, you know, I don't know how much readers can can see on Zoom. But, you know, for example, they're these just beautiful illustrations. There's three different illustrators from diverse backgrounds. And that was really that was important to me as a white woman being the editor of this anthology, that if it was going to be, was going to have an intersectional feminist mission, which is what I wanted. And the poets in the book, they're about half Black, Indigenous people of color, and actually about one third LGBTQ voices, which I realized that wasn't even like I didn't go in with any like quotas, but I just kept choosing the poems I loved. I'm like, oh, okay, another queer poem, another queer poem. And it's not even that the content of the poems was expressively queer. I mean, for example, Mary Oliver, you know, she's amazing poet, lesbian. She writes about nature. I anthologize her poem, Wild Geese. You know, you don't know that that her identity is at the forefront, but it was central to who she was. So I mind, you know, my hope is that when someone would look through this, both the poems, but also the illustrations would speak to them. Here's another, and the book is, it's arranged by emotion. There's eight chapters, according to emotion. And I will say initially, as the editor, I was a little resistant because I was wary of the, you know, the stereotype of, oh, girls are so emotional, or that word hysterical, which is, you know, has this roots in misogyny. But it actually became a really useful organizing principle, especially because they focused on, you know, some taboo emotions. It starts with seeking and then loneliness, which is really defining part of growing up. And it can be at least, and it certainly has been a defining part of the past year for, for many of us, and especially for teenagers. And then attitude, and I'll hold up this picture, it's one of my favorites. Nice. Isn't that great? It's just like, here she is, hands on the hips. And, and then rage. And that is, you know, I felt like that a lot when I was a teen. I mean, I still do sometimes. I have a temper in my kids do, too. But I think girls, especially, you know, we're, we're not given permission to express our anger. And so to have these, there's some angry poems that are powerful, and that are, you know, using that emotion as like a catalyst for, for creativity, for expression, for, for release. And then there's shame, which for me, what like I said, was a, you know, pretty central part of being in high school, certainly, and trying to have a certain, you know, exterior surface. I was a straight A student, and I was kind of boy crazy on the outside. But there are all these different aspects of me, including this, you know, my, my closeted full spectrum of my sexuality, which, you know, I was 20 when I came out at Dartmouth, and that was a really liberating, amazing time. But that was the 90s, you know, I'll say the 80s was a really, kind of a toxic period. There weren't real role models in my small town, not in Williamstown, Massachusetts for LGBTQ people who were out and living, you know, visibly full lives, no teachers in my high school, you know, no one in my high school. Yeah, well, it was a, it was sort of an exhilarating and difficult period, the 80s. Because, you know, people were sort of moving towards, and of course it was AIDS too, early 80s. So that added a whole nother stigma to. Absolutely. I think that was connected to, certainly in the small town, there was like real powerful activism happening in the gay community around AIDS activism and ACT UP, and all of that was happening, I think, often more in the cities, and I think that paved the way for what happened in the 90s, which was, I did then have the, and I saw this happen, like on my college campus, there was like a real blossoming of, we didn't use the word queer then, it was like, you know, LGBT, LGBT Alliance or whatever, but I think all of those activists, you know, in the, you know, the tragedy out of the tragedy of AIDS in the 80s, and you correct me if I'm getting the history wrong, but I feel like there was some paving the way for then what happened, like socially for young people, that there was just more space for, for us to be, us to be open and out and proud, starting in the early 90s. And then I kind of felt like the, like some of the, you know, music of the time became more, I don't know. I mean, I always wax nostalgic about the music I listened to, like that time period. I have two sons and they're Gen X. Yeah. And I always tease them about their music, you know, I don't know how many times I had to listen to, like, picture, leave those kids alone. I mean, for me, though, for me, it was the indigo girls. Yeah, yeah. Oh, like, and, and like, were they out? Maybe not at first, but like, yeah, then they were, you know, and in it was like, oh my God, my, I, who do I love more? You know, Emily, or at least Amy, and I went to see them. I went to see them live at least, at least three times. I went to this amazing concert in Berkeley the summer of 1994, I lived in Berkeley. And I'd cut my hair short. You know, when I, when I, you know, being bi, I always wanted to be taken seriously by like the lesbians on my campus. And, and so especially because I'm kind of a fem, you know, I didn't know when use that word then. But it was like, Oh, I need to do these external, these external markers to prove myself in some way. So, you know, I had this short haircut. I pierced my nose. I got a necklace, which was a double woman's sign. And then I spent this summer in Berkeley, because I just wanted to meet women and date women and didn't really work out like that. But I got to see the indigo girls. And it's a Greek theater in Berkeley. And it was outdoors in the sunlight in the eucalyptus grove. And like, everyone was just taking off their shirts. They were just there, like in their bras. And like, when I think back to like the the nineties and that blossoming, like, that's what I think about. Yeah. And I saw the ones in New Orleans at Jazz Fest, they were fabulous. And I think, you know, there was a whole generation of people, you know, in the sixties and fifties. And, you know, I mean, all the way through, we've done incredible things to move us into. Yes. Yeah. So would you like to read us before we leave? I'd love to. I mean, what I'm wondering is maybe I should read, you know, one of those queer poets who most, you know, inspired me. And, you know, maybe maybe I'll read this poem by Joy Layden. I don't know if you know her. Yeah. I actually just read, I read with her last night. And her poem is called Survival Guide. And that title alone, you know, Survival Guide, like, that's what you need. That's what I needed when I was like 13, 14, 15. It's like, you know, how do I do this? How do I get through? And Joy is a trans woman and has written, you know, beautiful wordwomening books, a memoir of gender transition, and also, you know, just incredible poems. So this poem, I'll read this poem, Survival Guide, which just really spoke to me. Both me is who I am now as a, you know, middle-aged mom and then also thinking about the girl that I was. Survival Guide by Joy Layden. No matter how old you are, it helps to be young when you're coming to life, to be unfinished, a mysterious statement, a journey from star to star. So break out a box of Crayolas and draw your family looking uncomfortably away from the you you've exchanged for the mannequin they named. You should help clean up, but you're so busy being afraid to love or not. You're missing the fun of clothing yourself in the embarrassment of life. Frost your lids with midnight. Lid your heart with frost. Rub them all over. The hormones that regulate the production of love from karmic garbage dumps. Turn yourself into the real you. You can only discover by being other. Voila, you're free. Learn to love the awkward silence you are going to be. I think that is a wonderful way to end this. Thank you so much, Diana. I hope we'll see you on tour shortly when this is somewhat over. Yeah, I'm actually reading at Palm City in Montpelier at the end of April with Allison Prine and Bianca Stone. Nice. So for people who want to hear some more poems from the book, we'll be sharing those. That's great. And well, do you think they're going to let people in at that point? It's online. It's a virtual reading, but that's what we do now. And you know. Some ways it really is. Now you said it's accessible to more people too. Absolutely. You can record it. You can play it. You can, you know, it can have a life of its own outside of just the community that you're in. So in some ways that's really, I think, valuable. It's a valuable lesson I've learned, you know, that I, I mean, I can watch stuff from everywhere. I love it. And you're right. You also, you don't have to get dressed up. You could be in your, especially, you know, you keep your camera off. You can be in your pajamas on your couch with your, your dog. And you can, you can watch poetry. So it's really, it is, there, there has been a kind of a silver lining to the way that we can interact in these online spaces with more people. Yeah. And have accessibility to people that if you don't live in New York or, you know, play or San Francisco that you can have access to that you might know of before. So I think in some ways I think that is maybe a good thing that's changed in the culture. Yeah. Yeah. So April 30th, we're reading Friday, April 30th. It's the last event of Palm City and it's online. And, and I'm sure if any of your audience wants to find out, they can go to the Palm City website, which is, you know, it's through the Kellogg Hubbard Library in Montpelier. And they do such a wonderful job every year. And if you give me a heads up just before the reading, I will advertise it on the show. That would be great. Yeah. And let's see. Okay. So thanks again, Diana. I appreciate it. And I hope we get to meet in person one day. I hope so too, Linda. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. All right. Bye. Some early spring weather. And Vermont is looking at easing up some of the COVID restrictions. Linda and I thought that perhaps y'all might be ready to book that retreat. So we found the ideal place for you. And we want to introduce you to Willie and Greg, who are the endkeepers at Moose Meadow Lodge on Crossed Hill in Waterbury. Welcome. Hi. Thank you. Hi, guys. Hi. So I want to thank you. You know, how is it going with COVID? And how are you preparing people for their stay at your wonderful lodge? Well, you know, actually, we were open last summer and fall. And back then, we didn't know as much about COVID as we do now. So we have a lot of practice in cleaning and sanitizing. I spent a lot of time with laundry. And of course, everyone has to mask. And we've been able to spread everybody out for breakfast. So we'll continue to do that once the season starts back up. Now, since November, we've been pretty much closed, except for the holiday. But because of all of the restrictions and the numbers going up, but now that the governor is easing up on those restrictions, especially after July 4th, we'll be ready, more than ready to take action. So and, you know, everybody is eager to travel, as Keith mentioned. And we heard a term last week, this term called revenge travel. Everybody is so eager to get out and to see somewhere else that they're just gonna they're gonna go somewhere. Now, you you've promised us that during this interview, you're actually going to take us inside and show us around moose metal lodge. So people have a real sense of, oh, this is where I want to go. But you have four guest rooms plus the treehouse. And at the end of this interview, we're going to show your brief YouTube on the treehouse. But before moose metal lodge, you both had lives. So could you tell us a little bit about your life prior to moose metal? Linda would really like to know how the two of you met. I'd like to know why made you decide to open a B&B and how will we grace to entice you to come to Vermont? So that's a very interesting question. How we met actually relates to why we have this bed and breakfast. Greg and I met in a log home bed and breakfast, a gay owned log home bed and breakfast in the mountains of West Virginia called the the lodge. The guest house. The guest house. The guest house at Lost River in West Virginia. I had actually rented out the whole place. But two weeks before we were supposed to go, my friends and I, my friends started calling me and cancelling. And so I called the odor, I said, Bob, I'm sorry, I only need two rooms. He says, don't worry, I'll sell the other rooms. And while I was mad at my friends for cancelling out on me, it gave Greg the opportunity to rent one of the other rooms. And how many years ago was that? That was 29 years ago. Wow. Congratulations. So we met at this bed and breakfast in the hills of West Virginia. We found out we both lived and worked in the Washington DC area. I was with IBM at the time and Willie was with a couple of different associations that he worked. And every weekend after that weekend at the bed and breakfast, we would just do stuff together. I mean, we'd go biking out in the country or we'd take, get away from Washington and go up to some place to Pennsylvania to an old bed and breakfast. But we just traveled. We just did things together. And every time we travel, we would stay at a bed and breakfast. And we thought after a while, we'd be sitting at a bed and breakfast in the morning and we'd think, you know, we could do this. And as we continued to date, we thought, you know, in the future, you know, sometime when we get close to retirement, it wouldn't be kind of fun to have our own bed and breakfast. You know, something to do if, you know, if we're still together. But we dated for four years before we moved in together. Six months after we moved in, I got transferred to Vermont with IBM. That's what brought us to Vermont. So it was supposed to be a three-year project. It lasted six years. During that time, well, when I got transferred up here, I went to Willie. I said, Willie, you know, I'm going to be leaving Washington, DC, moving to Vermont. Why don't you move with me? Because we talked about having a bed and breakfast. Maybe this is the time, not when we get close to retirement. Maybe when we're young, this is the time to do a bed and breakfast. So Willie agreed. He moved to Vermont with me, with the plans of buying property to do exactly what we're doing right now. So this was a private home, private property, when we first bought it. But we bought it with the plans of doing what we're doing. After six years at IBM, I'd been with IBM for 22 years, but after that project ended, this was up and running. And we were, I didn't want to leave Vermont. And so left IBM to focus on the bed and breakfast. Wow. I haven't regretted one bit of it, right? No, no. As a matter of fact, we were so happy with what we found. Because first of all, I wanted something within 30 minutes of my office when we moved here. But I wanted something in the hills, something with views, something close to water. And this was the first property that we saw. But we continued to look for three more months before we came back and put an offer on this property. It had a lot of work. And that's the reason it had so much work that needed to be done. So that's how we managed to continue. That's how we met. I guess I'm shaking. That's how we met. That's what brought us to Vermont. And we're just as happy today as the day we bought the place. Okay, but you have not just settled in, as I am told, one of the in keepers of the year here in Vermont. But you've also reached out to the community around you. And you both have high levels of involvement in community activity. Greg, you're a justice of peace. Willie, you played the violin with LFO players, chamber players, which you are one of the founders, and the Vermont Philharmonic. Can you share with us your experience reaching out to and how the greater Duxbury Waterbury community accepted you? Yeah, that's a really good question. Coming from a city like Washington, D.C. and moving up to a rural state like Vermont, you have ideas of what it might be like when you move there. But I was blown away by at least in our community, the openness and welcoming attitude that the community members had around here. Our first community involvement was to volunteer at the Waterbury Public Library. And I tell you, it was the best way to get all the gossip and meet all the neighbors and fit right in. And then I started playing with the Vermont Philharmonic and the Montpelier Chamber Orchestra. I play violin. And that was an instant community for me, because they don't look at race or sexual orientation or gender identity. They are looking for ability in your instrument. And people just embraced me and wanted to get more involved with music. And then years later, I founded the LFO Chamber Players, which is a professional orchestra that performs here in Vermont. On my business side, I was president of the Waterbury Tourism Council. I'm appointed by the governor on the Vermont Travel and Recreation Council. And I'm also now on the board of the Vermont Chamber of Commerce. So I'm heavily involved to represent not just the people of color, but also the LGBTQ community in these venues that we aren't normally in. I think it's important for us to have a voice. Some people have loud voices and try to influence society and changes from a more vocal perspective. I work more from the inside, so to speak, and get more involved with those people who aren't in the establishment or people who are in power, so to speak, so that they can hear another voice. So to answer the question about how moving to Vermont it's been like it's been the best decision we ever made. And Greg, what's it like being an elected official for the town of Duxbury? Because you were also in the Cemetery Commission, I understand. And Justice of the Peace is usually one of those municipal roles that go to the people who have been there long term, the people who are really established. Right, right. Well, I, yes, I was a Cemetery Commissioner for 12 years and then turned it over to, there were three of us on the commission, and then after 12 years we turned it over to three other commissioners. So I'm not on that anymore, but we did a lot of wonderful work here in Duxbury. We put together the rules, regulations, policies, and procedures for our cemeteries, but a lot of work was done there. But becoming a Justice of the Peace, that was back in, well, 2000, when Civil Union was first went into law here in Vermont. And when Vermont was the only state that had Civil Union, couples were coming to Vermont to have a legal recognition of their life together with whoever they were with. So they would book here at the Moose Middle Lodge, and then we were running around looking for a Justice of the Peace to officiate the weddings. And that's where we met you, Keith, because you came over a number of times in officiated weddings. And then we thought, well, Keith is not only fantastic, but wouldn't it be great if we could have a package that includes my services if I ran for the position and got elected? Maybe we could have a package that includes my services, and that'll free Keith up for other things that he's involved with. But anyway, so 2001 I ran for the position, got elected, and every two years I get reelected. Now, Keith, I mentioned before we started recording that you were very, very instrumental and very helpful, bringing me on board, watching you as an efficient, getting information from you, getting just the right words from you, just was such a springboard to help me to go on to where I'm at today. It's actually become a second career. I just counted yesterday, and this is March, April, and I have 44 weddings just for this year on my books. That number is low. That number is low. I've already officiated six since January. I've got quite a few already into next year. So I'll be doing between 50 and 60 weddings this year because it's only March. But that's what I'm saying. It's become a second career, and I travel all throughout Vermont to officiate weddings. I'll get a phone call from an in or resort to bed and breakfast, and once they have seen me come and represent them and officiate, they will ask, can we put you on our preferred vendor list? So now I'm getting a lot of referrals from other locations. Most of my weddings are not here at the Moose Metalage anymore. They're throughout Vermont, all the way from JP down to Bennington. And it's the fun part of being a justice. So Keith, if you recall, you did a wedding here that was covered by the New York Times. I think in 2001, like 20 years ago, which is hard to believe, Greg had just become Justice of the Peace, but he went away for a furniture building class in Maine, I believe, that week. And so you filled in, and then you got in New York Times, and he was so jealous. Keith would heal. Never forget that. It was your picture in the New York Times. Okay, but he went away to Maine to learn how to make furniture. And I understand that there's a fair number of his projects that now populate the lodge. Yes. Yeah, there's tables and chairs and benches, because I have, since my wedding ceremonies have increased, my woodworking has decreased, because I don't have the time now to walk out here and cut what I need to make furniture, because I'm always working on another ceremony with another couple interviewing. I had an interview or FaceTime today, one yesterday and one day before, so in the last three days I've talked with three couples, and I'm constantly doing that. So furniture making has kind of taken a backseat. Being conscious of our time, I want you to take us inside and show us loose metal lodge. Sure, I will hold the camera, and Greg will give you a tour. You're holding the camera because he kept shaking it. Could you tell? I didn't realize I was, I was just nervous. All right, here we go. So now I wonder, first of all, do you want to check out the view? Gorgeous. Sun is shining. Welcome to the Moose Metal Lodge. Lift it up a little bit, just cutting my head off. There we go. So when you walk in, you're going to notice throughout the house there's a variety of trophy animals, and I do a little hunting, I do a little fishing. So some of the trophy animals are ones that I caught. I do my own butchering. We eat everything I take, and nothing will go to waste. I have everything preserved, and so now guests can come and enjoy, like over here. This guy I got in the woods a few years ago. Guests will be able to come in and see up close what some of these wonderful trophies look like. So this is the piano room. Let's walk over here because what I want to show you, a dear friend of ours made us a replica of our treehouse, and as a thank you, they came over to see the place. We gave them a little tour, and a couple weeks later they called and they said, hey, we have something for you, and we thought they're going to give us some flowers or something if we're thanking us, and they walked in with this, and it is a centerpiece. I can't wait to actually show you the real treehouse, but this is very, very close to what it is. And if you follow me over here, we have our lobby shop, really caused me the vice president of the lobby shop. I got promoted this year. And maple syrup from our trees, our neighbor taps about 600 of our maple trees. Oh, and Willie is just starting his new business, will flowers. There we go. What this is, this is the most sought after pancake mix worldwide of all the guests that come here, because it is made, what it's made from, sweet rice flour, gluten free, but we have more guests asking for this than anything else that he makes. So we know that's going into production. If you follow us over here, a lot of the materials came off our property. This boulder came out of our woods, and stone cover carved us a sink. Hot water comes out of 200 degrees, cold water, easy access. So if you see a rock, a stone, a tree came off our property. This is, I don't think you've seen the kitchen key. You did see it after it was renovated. Okay. So I'm just going to let Willie pan the kitchen area. This is, now I tell the guests, we give the guests a tour when they come in, of course, and we let them know they're welcome to use the refrigerator. We have plenty of refrigerator space for the guests, but this is very important right here. I tell every guest, I just want you to know why this is so important. This is where your Ben and Jerry's ice cream goes. I never guarantee it'll be there in the morning, but that's where they can store it. We're going to bring you over here into the great room and some trophies. Now, not all trophies are ones that I've taken. There are some belong to friends of ours. Some I purchased, so it's kind of a combination of different trophies, North American animals. So I'll really just walk in and maybe do a pan. Okay. And we've got a couple rooms we can show you. The first is the Creole room. Now, Keith and Linda, can either of you tell me what a Creole is? C-R-E-E-L. Oh, we must be muted. I don't know. Isn't it a Southern expression for like a bayou or a creek? No, no. It's not a spice. It's not a seasoning. It's, what were you going to say, Linda? I was going to say, I was going to say that's Creole. Yeah, that's Creole. This is C-R-E-E-L. This is a Creole. So it's what you carry fish in when you're out fishing. So this whole room has a fishing theme and I collect Creoles of all vintages and sizes and designs. This particular, all the rooms have private baths. This particular bath is a piece of art. The entire room is hand painted with by a local artist of all my fishing gear. And this room also has a two-person steam room, big enough for two people to shower and turn the steam on and that room fills up with a, the steam room fills up with 110 degrees of steam. If you follow me this way, this is, go ahead. I just want to say my father who was from Newfoundland and was a fisherman will be very, very mad that I did not know that. I was going to say we're, we're just about totally out of time. Okay, okay. So, so, okay, then tell me. Well, what I'm, what I'm going to say is thank you so much. We're going to need to come back and what's going to be coming immediately after this and, and it's why we're ending a little sooner is so that we can show the video of the tree house. Oh, yes. Absolutely. So, so, but one last thing, every summer prior to COVID, Loose Metal Lodge had sponsored a picnic and concert with the Vermont Steel Harmonic. Might we see that coming back this year? Yes, the plan is to have it, I think it's August 8th, the second Sunday of August, three o'clock picnic, four o'clock concert and it's our annual Pops concert. It's, it's going to be wonderful. It will, I'll be crying because we haven't performed it over a year. We missed you. And we want a front row seat. Got it. All right, with that, thank you. And thank you guys. It's been a pleasure. Bye. Very welcome. Thank you. We'll see you in two weeks.