 Hello everyone. I'm excited to see so many people still so late in the afternoon. Let's do a quick poll. Who here watches eSports? Great. I'm surprised how many has heard about eSports Great. We're in for a great talk that good All right I'm gonna give a little bit of context and read and read apart from new zoo's newest report Then then we'll jump into it So eSports has been one of the hottest topics on in gaming for the past couple of years with strong growth and viewership and revenue in 2018 the global eSports audience will reach over 380 million people according to new zoo and if I read directly from new zoo's amazing eSports report as a Consumer phenomenon eSports continues to grow its huge base of passionate fans across the globe as a business eSports is now entering a new and critical phase towards maturity Big investments have been made new league structures have been launched Sponsorship budgets have moved from experimental to continuous and international media rights trade is starting to heat up So Eunice Jens Both of you are very much in the middle of eSports and I would really love to hear your take on this Are the days of crazy growth already behind us and have we reached an era of maturity in eSports? Or are we just getting started? please we're definitely seeing the beginning of a very positive trend for all of us and You know not only have we seen the viewership and the growth increase in the last several years in the last year alone It's been exponential. We've seen increased stability in this space with the creation of three very stable eSports franchise leagues which have helped advertisers really understand the space a little bit more and Really, you know with a lot of the robustness and the higher bar to borrow standards that we're setting across the board It's really forcing companies to think about how to scale how to formalize things and how to really work together to Become a real industry in the mainstream space. So it's definitely a very good start for us So I think when when sort of addressing or reading the statement that you just read it's a bit like People read in the media in the gaming media and the general media that eSports has been sort of Exploding the last months or the last one or two or three years I'd say eSports has always been growing on a pretty continuous basis for the last 20 years actually eSports fundamentally being competitive multiplayer gaming eSports fundamentally being the kind of Beauty of watching video gamers perform and kind of understanding as that as the beauty of expectation of video games in a competitive way It has been growing for for more than two three four decades now actually started in 1975 in the arcades in the US So kind of this trend of kind of playing video games competitively and enjoying The expectation of it has been going on for a long time. It just simply has hit this inflection point of Finally audience filling up stadiums And when sort of there was 10,000 people for the first time in a big stadium kind of the general media opened up their eyes and like Hey, here's eSports. There's a real boom happening right now. All these people are suddenly there. No, they're not suddenly there There were always there just all of a sudden they fill a stadium while a year before the stadium was maybe 70% capacity Right, so I think kind of there was an inflection point that made many people believe like here's a boom going on The reality is eSports is growing and and kind of flourishing with new generations growing up with video games with a natural Understanding that video games are a spectator sports There's athletes that perform well at these kind of video game sports and that will not change from here on forward So video games and eSports will continue to grow in my opinion on pretty linear basis Even though the last two years have seen the biggest investment going into eSports with sort of eSports hitting this sort of It's a level to mainstream today. I think we can call it pop culture even right Actually to kind of follow up a little bit on that if if we talk a little bit more about the money in eSports Global eSports revenues are expy are forecasted to reach 906 million this year with year-on-year growth of 38% You're an investor in the space Jens and I really bet the audience would love to hear your view on this Like who makes the money and where does it go in eSports? I mean first and foremost the people who develop these games That we play today and nowadays have been starting to make the most money out of this and by money I mean revenue and profits as a result of that But as these kind of the expectation element the kind of entertainment aspect of eSports started to rise the last Kind of decades particularly the last years We're seeing other businesses built out this entire ecosystem and starting to get to a point where they're becoming viable businesses Which is eSports teams independent eSports leagues kind of we've invested in betting in eSports and trading card games in eSports and sort of Analytics and sort of coaching and training in eSports In fashion and apparel in eSports even in music in eSports all these different kind of Pieces of what is becoming a next-generation? entertainment and next-generation sports industry are Becoming viable businesses with the fundamental and underlying growth but the biggest piece so far has certainly been taken by those who Develop these games and own these games and by the way by comparison There's nobody out there who owns the IP of basketball or soccer, right? If that person would be out there He would be the bond making the most out of kind of the traditional spots, right? There's not so in in gaming that's different because there's people that own the underlying IP But it would also be kind of hard by manufacturers the Logitech's the turtle beaches kind of that have been making Very good living of producing equipment that helps our electronic athletes to perform better Actually Eunice I would kind of love to hear your view on view on this as Cloud nine is ranked the most valuable eSports company by Forbes earlier this year and also named the eSports Organization of the year by the eSports award Congratulations But from from your viewpoint can you tell us about the monetization strategy for cloud nine and how you've been able to grow? Your business steadily year over year as a team owner organization our Revenue streams and pillars are built into our sponsorships as one of our biggest platforms and merchandise advertising and media rights We also work with the franchises to get revenue shares from that With sponsorships It's been a very interesting challenge to see how we educate our partners in the process of Getting them into entering the market so a lot of the complexity of how a brand can enter the market is very unknown right now there's no clear path a lot of the traditional ways of of Advertising in other industries don't necessarily apply here because we have a very different platform We have different if consumption types of basis. We have a different fan base that is very ad-resistant So there's been a lot of work done on our end and hopefully across the industry that I've seen to to really make sure that Brands are being educated the right way so that they don't churn and have a bad experience as an early adopter and Throughout the years. It's it's been interesting because now we're figuring out Okay, where do we focus our ways? Where do we focus our resources? Where do we scale in these different areas a lot of the? Areas that I mentioned for example merchandise media rights a lot of that has been tapped into on a very basic level But we haven't thought about you know additional licensing rights or creating new content from a lot of the the licenses that we have to offer We haven't really thought more about how to Make merch into something that is more of a lifestyle brand where other teams may have and they've been very successful For us. It's something that we really need to put resources against and think about But at a very high level, you know, I think there's a lot of work to be done And it's it's really exciting to see in the industry grow and with cloud nine to grow alongside it Right if we stick a little bit to that to the advertising component I was doing a little bit of research on the internet. I hope my statistics are correct But if you look at the e-sports sponsorship and advertising revenues It will surpass half a billion dollars this year Which is roughly at the same level as a Super Bowl ad money But then if you look at the viewership e-sports is double that of of the Super Bowl So are there advertisers? Are they investing? Are they not investing and how do we get more advertisers into e-sports? So particularly this year we have seen a lot of FMCG's Can it move into e-sports as their advertisement platform as part of their advertising strategy we've seen T-Mobile we've seen Deutsche Post we've seen DHL we've seen a Couple of airlines coming in so it's kind of I think we're seeing major brands major FMCG is moving in right now the Fundamental barrier that some of them still have is number one How do I truly and authentically kind of communicate with that target audience? number two these games to some extent are sort of considered Violent still by some of them where I'm sometimes asked myself the question like if I switch on my TV set at eight or nine Or even 7 p.m. In the evening like I see the same stuff like I see more violent stuff than that Like you're advertising all around these kind of pictures like how's League of Legends in any way a problem, right? But that is still something that the FMCG's have to get used to and oftentimes it's actually Younger people get into decision into decision-maker positions in kind of the bigger agencies or in those With those brands and and once the younger people move in with sort of having grown up with e-sports or having grown up with gaming It's a different conversation. We're having right so I think and a lot of that is happening right now that sort of the younger Generations are getting into decision-maker positions in bigger agencies in kind of some of the FMCG's and and really making a difference right there And there are also the ones who can really structure the right campaigns in that target audience So it's there where we had a great year in 2018 if that continues Then we'll definitely step up the monetization game and advertisement and sponsorship in e-sports massively in the next years to come Yeah, there's also a lot of interesting ways that we're thinking about it at least with cloud nine in Terms of coming up with new inventory to really work with sponsors on and advertisers on so you know Typically right now we have a lot of very basic inventory things like logos on jerseys and ad inventory on twitch streams and and Different things like that meet and greets activations a lot of things you see in regular sports industries or other industries To two really strong goals for us at cloud nine next year are one figuring out our global expand expansion plan and to building new programming for example youth camps or summer leagues and things like that to really break into the more mainstream lifestyle in a way that not just you know hardcore gamers can understand but also casual gamers and their families and With an increased audience in these new markets Hopefully we'll also be able to work with advertisers to explain that in more layman's terms It's very interesting points I'm gonna shift gear a little bit away from money and to kind of talk talk more about technology Considering that slush is a huge tech conference and and I think we often get stuck when we're talking about e-sports only talking about games But there's so much more other type of technology that goes into it be it be it the hardware or be it the discord or Or twitch or whatever and you know since we're in the you know the future driven Conference I would love to hear your views on what kind of technology could elevate e-sports and kind of make it even better be it I don't know rapid eye measuring tech or AI based. I don't know something What kind of tech are you excited for? So I think when when we looked at what companies can we invest in and then should we invest in or should we build then we Looked at sort of two categories stuff that has worked in the traditional sports space that can be rethought for e-sports and sort of Kind of Digitalized a bit more for the e-sports audience and then it would work in e-sports and the other category is Stuff that hasn't been around in traditional sports to the biggest extent and can only work in e-sports because e-sports fundamentally digital first and kind of based on video games so in these two buckets there is quite some some things that we've been excited about I mentioned some of them to begin with kind of Batting around e-sports is a great sort of engagement tool for existing audience is a great way for for audience to connect deeper with the game and then the game Experience and the fandom around it. We've been kind of looking at the entire sort of space of merchandise performance nutrition kind of Services talent management around e-sports growing talent in e-sports coaching and training of talent in and then a lot of this also gets Reinvented in traditional sports. I'd say about four or five six years ago Kind of sports tech it's called sort of sports technology investments Started in the traditional sports base and would be kind of how do I better measure nutrition? How do I better measure certain performance aspects or sort of certain body measures kind of how do I optimize my training and whatnot? So a lot of these things will work in e-sports, but they also only recently really took off in traditional sports Which is interesting to see and I think that e-sports to some extent will sort of outperform and outpace innovation that we've seen in traditional sports Because we're truly kind of digital first Right. What are the types of technologies that help cloud nine players? Well, there's actually three different categories that I can think of that that we really encompass at cloud nine So on the business end, there's a lot of business tools that we absolutely Need and will be needing as we grow and scale as a company So things that help us gather data things that help us, you know value our inventory to advertisers Which advertisers and also like our league partners could find useful? And and really just provide a lot more analysis and evaluation and and management tools and On the player end on a pro player end We actually Could probably see a lot of use for deep tech things like machine learning that our coaches could really use for prediction and analysis You know things that also help improve our player performance, whether it's mental or diet or nutrition focused We've worked with a lot of partners for example Red Bull has a sleep program that we recently put one of our teams through and it's been Incredibly helpful And then there are other companies and startups that have reached out to us Where we you know one of their ideas was to measure our players heart rates as they were You know encountering different situations and in gameplay and and really taking that data to figure out okay What are they reacting to what are they looking at how fast are they reacting and things like that that can really help performance and the thirdly on the On the community end, you know we as cloud nine Have a huge community, but we're always looking for ways to engage deeper to potentially monetize and You know really just to figure out in different ways how to either segment them as regional communities or Or work with them on a higher level or you know, I don't even know what could be possible But you know let us know what's possible, but there's so many different ways for innovation that I think we're open to it So it sounds like there's a lot of space for for startups and in eSports Actually ends as an investor yourself. What are the types of KPIs you're looking at for investing in eSports startup specifically? I don't think we would look much differently than other Investors in other spaces We look principally at team product market now market in our case You're always being eSports, but within eSports like what's the certain segment that he's covering is he in apparel He's in gaming is he in B2B services is analytics like what is the market that he's serving? and on these three sort of different aspects we'd look for Kind of I'd say two of those aspects to flash kind of bright green So ideally there's a great founder team with a great product the market might not be there But might be large enough tomorrow Or great founder team great market product still sucks But can be fixed like that see everything in perfect fit is rare But that's kind of the three I'd say dimensions that we look at in the first place what matters Probably the most abstractly on top of that is passion for gaming We've sort of rarely seen somebody doing really well who doesn't truly love playing League of Legends or Counter-Strike or Dota himself And truly understands the target audience and the space that he's working in so kind of finding a founder Who's truly passionate about what he does is? Definitely the criteria are on top of that But it sort of falls probably in the first bucket like team as a qualification criteria for the person that's actually building here Okay, and then what's the next big eSport? What's the next game? I? Think this is one of those super large kind of startup opportunities Like like again first of all thinking about how do you define eSports again eSports fundamentally is Kind of games that are competitive multiplayer video games synchronous multiplayer video games That are equally fun to play as they're fun to watch now Understanding how to design from a game design perspective for a game To actually serve both of these aspects at the same time is something that is incredibly Difficult and I'd say a lot of the games that have made it in eSports Find the roots and game design principles that have not been put together because people Did it that way because they thought a lot of people are gonna watch it They were done that way because like hey, it's great and it's fun And then people actually discovered the watchability and then sometimes it was a bit optimized for expectation but I think there's a whole new level of art and Mastery in game design, which is a personal understanding How do I design a game so that somebody can sit down in a stadium and the game is made up in a way that there's 30 40 45 minutes of gameplay between two teams or two players or maybe even several teams Define the game format define the game define the game design that makes it so watchable in that in that kind of entertainment form as well as really fun to play and really have sufficient depth of gameplay and It's so rare because it's not been learned. There's no best practices. There's no kind of really References of like I've designed a game Specifically with both of the criteria in the first place and I've succeeded right so I think that is something that is Just starting the last years to happen as people understand Hey eSports games have a certain kind of definition And if I designed for that I could sit on a goldmine just like riot or wargaming or or kind of Any of the other kind of publishers and IP developers that have achieved that level of success because a successful eSports game Has a lifetime of more than 10 years. It's proven kind of strike is out there for close to 18 years now 18 years League of Legends is out there now for what like eight years like and it's probably gonna be Having a lifetime of two decades, right? I don't see a reason why why riot games would mess that up like that's that's something that you want to be able to achieve And you can achieve that if you design along these principles But the mastery level is high and I have not seen a lot of teams that have really dedicated themselves and thought that through beginning To end and that is the biggest opportunity by far There are still genres that I haven't even thought about that are unexplored That shall be explored just like nobody knew what the battle royale genre is five years ago, right? Somebody lifted it and then two three four generations of developers and IPs later The biggest one surfaces with fortnight, right? It looks like an overnight success right because we just see we just see the one right and then there's kind of you Stopped me here when I'm taking too much time. There's the that's what I'm trying to do The aspect of different platforms like mobile has its very own characteristics in eSports There's a specific way that you design for mobile. We have VR still in its infancy But kind of think about what what eSports did it basically traditional sports very physical eSports very mental What VR will probably do not only with a deep level of immersion But basically you using full-body motion to some extent VR might create the super sports It might be the perfect combination of the mental depth that eSports has with the physical depth and kind of Attributes that traditional sports as VR might well create the sport that is the super sport combining both So there's tremendous opportunity kind of on the different platforms with kind of going deep on game design That are just just really opening up right now, you know, so I'm actually I'm sort of following up on this question I'd like to hear your kind of take on on what's the type of title that has the potential to become mainstream and we Have it in the Olympics and then the players are and on Oprah and you know, what type of title will that be? We're seeing a lot of publishers approach eSports in different ways and I think with something like the Olympics, right? I there's definitely a lot more focus on the journey of the athlete their training a lot of really treating the eSports athletes like their professional players with a mental well-being and a sports psychologist with nutrition with physical training but also just telling the story of how the athlete gets to their peak performance and That can only really be achieved through a lot of structure Through a eSports format that really tells that story So we've seen League of Legends and Overwatch for example with You know year-long seasons and and culminating in a world championship at the end And there's weekly structures and everything is really you know legitimize and sort of credible and and really gives the mainstream audience a sense of stability and understanding what's happening Then on the other end of the extreme obviously with fortnight, for example, they really don't have any eSports structure They're really focused on pop pop culture and you know We've even seen ninja as the biggest fortnight streamer on Ellen DeGeneres's show recently Teaching her how to play the game. So, you know while that really doesn't have an eSports focus It's it's one of the ways that gaming can get into the mainstream and really tap into that larger audience who can then care about You know a form of eSports in some time sometime down the line and you know Hopefully we'll see the consumption model change a little bit as a lot more media outlets and a lot more Mainstream pop culture channels become more interested in in what's happening And and I think this is you know it both in both formats You know eSports is really pushing gaming and other forms of eSports forward Actually, we're about to run out of time, but we have a question from the audience I'm gonna read it out loud. How much does regional identity mean to eSports teams identities and brand and even if you look at maybe broader than that like the regional aspects of eSports we have one minute go I Could give a quick anecdote. So cloud nine. We actually own London Spitfire, which is our overwatch team And it's been really Interesting challenge for us to figure out how to have a European team as a North American Organization with a roster full of Korean players So the regional identity is something that the overwatch league really tried to push and you know we've been working very closely with our local community to figure out how to engage deeper with them throwing events in the local area and Also while tapping into the global audience that overwatch league has provided but also with our Korean national Players and our cloud nine North American fans So it's it's it's definitely a huge identity that I think more leagues are going to be pushing but also more teams need to figure out as eSports is a global phenomenon. So we need to make sure we're tapped into all the markets possible Yes, I I look at it in in kind of two ways. There's it definitely Creates additional opportunity for the fans to interact with our team. It definitely creates additional opportunity to monetize because you have other kind of Sponsorship opportunities that you can realize in kind of a physical kind of local environment On the other hand side what I love about eSports and gaming and our games is really that we have been living in a space where Boundaries don't matter you play with a friend from France You follow a team with five different players from all around the planet Kind of on a tournament in New York your team is from Berlin like that that bound Geographical kind of boundaries don't matter in eSports and gaming I think it's a beautiful thing and I also think it's beautiful that eSports team needed to define themselves By values in the first place and not by my city in the first place, right? And I think that's something beautiful because it it forces you to to live up to values It forces you to communicate through values and rally your fans behind you for what you stand for not what city You're born in or what city you happen to kind of start in so I think I'm and I would be sad That sort of that level of kind of innovation falls away. So I think I'm I'm gonna there's opportunity On both sides. So I'm a bit undecided. I'm looking forward to how this plays out But I I would not say that regionalization is the answer to kind of everything I should be the kind of playing past that this is going forward on well, maybe eSports will unite the world Let's leave it at that Thanks so much. I think our time's up. It's been a pleasure for more gaming stuff We have press play happening tomorrow. It's a side event. So check that out. Thanks everyone. Thank you so much. Thank you so much