 Felly Mae Gwylech i gweithio'r platform media o'r gwybod digwydd ar y gwerthgyffredd hwn yn gwlad gwestwl a fyddai i gydog gyda'n digwydd y teimlo yn ando'r bwrddfa sy'n gwybod ymgyrchu ar y cyfnod hwn yn gyffredd. Fyddwn yn ei gennym y dda'u gweithl iawn i gael daidl gyffreddol ar gyfer cyfrifynghau gwnog sawl. Mae'r gweithwch yn gwlad am y knydd i gwrs ateb i'r gweithio, felly flatteno'r gweithwch i'r gweithwch i'r cwfrifwng Cymru Typwitt y cyfnod o'r clynyddiant, a dyn oedd y cyflwydaeth o'r cerd o ffyrdd, dwi ddim yn ddod yn gwahanol chi'n ddweud o'r sign drwy'r ddwy deilogau. Ond mae'n un pwynt, mae'n ceisio fod yn oed yn mynd i gwahanol ac mae iddo yn ymgwrdd i'r cyfnod ac mae'n cyflwydaeth yn cyd-aflleydd, mae'n ddwy'n du i hynny'n cyd-aflleydd. So y gwaith cyfnod yw'r boed arall swyddwyr bydd ar wahanol IAAW7 I bought when I lived in Belfast but the thing was I never actually ever picked up the car so I remember one night I was in Miami and I was only there for three nights but I stayed at this like really swanky hotel in Miami and arranged for like a limousine to take me out to go to these clubs. It would be quite common for me to go into a bar or night club and like just order champagne for everyone but I think maybe the biggest bar tab I've ever had somewhere was about maybe £20,000. Whenever I was staying at a hotel, whenever I returned to the hotel room after being out I would chap the door and I would just say housekeeping just to see if there was anyone in the room because obviously I knew that if they were going to try and catch me at a hotel that's where they'd be waiting. So this one time I got back to the hotel in Toronto and I was carrying hundreds of bags of shopping, didn't chap the door, just walked in, boom, busted. In your room? Yep. I didn't get busted though properly because I knew they were there. I heard walkie-talkies going so I dropped everything and it just ran. Welcome, we're on. And today's guest we've got Elliot Castro. How are you Elliot? Perfect mate, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me. Good to be here mate. Actually somebody sent me a message just last week about a video on vice, Scottish boy, fraud, malweens are pounds, travelling the world, you end up getting a jail in Canada, you end up phoning them up and pretending you were the embassy. You end up managing to get back here. It's like a catch me if you can kind of thing. And you're no state you say pretty close to me, Glasgow boy. Just across the water mate. Wrong side of the city maybe somebody say. How's life? Life's good mate, aye. It's interesting just now with what's going on but life's good. Weird time innit? It's very strange mate. Very, very strange. I can't say I'm enjoying that side of things but just trying to keep my head straight and just get on with what I need to do for myself mate. Fair play mate and all your hanging weekend days just kick on and keep your head above water but it's a very interesting story. The vice thing, how did that come about cos that's recently new? So I got a message off a vice about, when was it? Must have been summertime last year. It was an agent, one of my agents, I've got a couple of agents that look after my speaking engagements and things like that and I got a message off one of them last summer asking, saying that vice had been in touch and asking if they were happy for me to give them a number. So guy got in touch. It was supposed to be basically, I've turned down a lot of these things in the past you know because I mean I know I'm sitting here with you just now but there is a part of me that kinder just wants to forget about it but at the end of the day I really can't you know it's just one of these things but A long, long, long shot of it was that they got in touch and said that they were wanting to do a podcast or not a podcast, a documentary, it would be a 5, 10 minute thing and they sent me this really cool kind of upbeat thing about an old art forger three years ago. A guy was about 70 or something but he was just telling his stories about his forgeries that he'd done and it was great. I thought if it's anything like that then I'm happy with that you know because it was a vice I thought it would just be quite lighthearted and stuff and then obviously it dropped and I was absolutely devastated if I'm totally honest with you. How come? They made it seem dead sinister. Just a lot of people have said that they don't think there's anything that bad about it but it just wasn't really what I was expecting you know I mean I'm not expecting to paint me as some kind of hero or whatever but it was just the music was dead sinister that was another thing so they promised me that they would use some of my music in the video and that never happened. So a few things they said they were going to do basically so see it be honest with you James I should have known better because at the end of the day they're journalists you know. No turning back now it's nearly 10 million views but it's good for platforms it's good for getting your name out there because you're now trying to do good which will touch on all that stuff but I'll always go back to the start with my guess where you grew up and how it all began. Right so well I grew up I was born in Aberdeen actually we don't really talk about that very often but I was born in Aberdeen don't be wrong still get family there etc. My dad's actually Italian by birth but his family emigrated to South America when he was a wee boy so all his family all my dad's side of the family are over there so we went over there spent a bit of time over there my mum decided she did not like it. I think the plan was we were meant to be staying there and it didn't happen so we came back to Glasgow and I was only six years old when we came back five and a half six years old or something like that so just in time to start school really. And I grew up in the south side of the city in a cold battlefield. Shit oh. I don't know about that maybe I'm a bit harsh James but that's where I grew up anyway so school life was a bit crazy for me cos I've really found it hard to get on with other kids my own age very well. So this is a question I've asked myself many times and it's only as an adult really that I think I've been able to actually truthfully answer that you know. I was definitely a bit different there's no doubt about that you know I was quite smart as well and I just found it like the things that other kids laughed at I just didn't find them funny you know it was like the laugh about things like you know do you ever get naked when you're in the shower obviously and that to them was hilarious when I responded with that you know. And that just seemed normal to me obviously if you're having a shower you're going to be naked don't you so but it was just little things like that would cause them to have fits of laughter and just little things as I say and I just found it difficult to get on with other kids my own age. I found it a lot easier actually to get on with adults when I was a kid you know just better conversations I found so that caused me a lot of problems. Intelligent younger age. I would say so yeah I mean you know I certainly was good at my work and if I had any problems with that I was always passed all my tests and everything and you know I really wanted to be the best at that side of things but in the classroom most of the time there was no bother at all it was just outside the classroom so I ended up being a total loner when I was at school which was very very hard at primary school I got bullied quite a bit at primary school. Into secondary school it started off as well and then until one day I just leathered this boy outside he was trying to beat me up basically and I'd never done that before cause I wasn't that type of person I was hitting people and stuff you know. But this I don't know something just snapped that day I was about 12 or 13 years old and I leathered this boy in my history teacher who was a really really good guy. I came out and basically I've seen what was going on I got suspended straight away obviously for you know what I'd done but nobody ever tried to beat me up again still nobody spoke to me you know what I mean but nobody tried to hit me that was for sure. Yeah actually I'm a big boy man you know I was 6 feet old. I'm 6 too I. Yeah so it's funny how people try and pick one the biggest or the tallest. That could be something to do with you know what I mean a bit inferior a bit intimidated. Did you feel better after you'd released a bit of anger? I remember feeling fantastic. Yeah. I think it was just obviously that had been pent up for you know years of having that kind of experience at school so but after it did feel better I mean I learned a really important lesson which is just you can't let people fuck with you you know. 100% people can only get pushed into a corner too much before they snap and try and stick up for themselves. For any bullies I don't like bullies I like the underdog and I like people I don't like people trying to shut off people but saying that it's just a weird time and everybody's kind of out for themselves just now. So after schooling and stuff how did you get to work or anything? So I left school when I was 16 bearing in mind I went to 8 different schools because I kept getting suspended or expelled for stupid shit basically really really when you think back on something it was one time I got suspended for stealing a Christmas decoration off a tree. So you become a bit of a problem child after that fight? No I mean it was already started by that point you know but the same thing basically I had this routine where I'd go to a new school and everything would be absolutely cool for a couple of weeks maybe a few months or whatever but eventually the same problems would come up again you know just I would get on fine with other kids to begin with and then over time I don't know. I can't really remember exactly you know the progression of what happened but that's basically the kind of stuff it was all stupid shit and like stealing a decoration off a Christmas tree or there was one time I wrote something with a teacher on a computer and printed stuff out and distributed it around the school like it done for that basically. It was just really stupid you know. Good stuff. I basically but it was just stuff that no other kid would even dream of doing do you know what I mean. You're doing that to get attention when you're doing that to make friends or be like. I think there was a party it was that but obviously I had a really overactive imagination as well I mean I was always just I mean when I was a kid I used to steal my mum's bed sheets and dress up as a pope and stuff like that just fucking crazy stuff do you know what I mean. And or just find like you know something like that and dress up like a king. I mean just all these kind of things. So it was always like pretending probably because I wasn't really very happy. I think I was just always trying to pretend to be something I wasn't. So I think there's you know if you look at what happened after there's a large party that's definitely got something to do with that. So your first job then what was that? So when I left school the first job I had was working in a call centre. I managed to I shouldn't have been working because I don't think I was actually old enough to do it to be in that job. I think you had to be at least 16 years old or at least 18 or whatever it was it was either 18 or 16 and I basically lied about it because either way I wasn't 18 you know. So they gave me a job it was working for a mobile phone network and it was my first like experience of a work environment. So I couldn't believe I managed to get the job to be honest with you because it was like there's no way I'm getting this job and I got offered it so. But that was kind of like so basically that's kind of where it started getting a bit more serious with the fraud stuff you know. So that start for very early age? Yeah so I mean it actually started before that. I mean the first time that I can remember and I'm pretty sure this was the first time doing anything like that anything legal to do with cars or whatever. I found a card on a train somebody had obviously just dropped her card and obviously back then you only had to sign for things it wasn't there was no chipping pin. You know we're talking back in 1996 or something like that. No in fact it wouldn't have been. So late 90s anyway mid to late 90s and I found this card and I was like right I'm going to try and buy my ticket with this card and it's obviously seen the signature on it. I was like that's going to be very easy to copy. So the guy came round because the whole point of this was I had money to buy my ticket and I was like I'll be able to keep the money and use it for something else. So the guy came round I hand him the credit card and he printed out a voucher I've signed the voucher. But unbeknownst to me he'd spied obviously my photo card had my own name on it and this card had somebody else's. I don't even remember the name to be honest with you it's that long ago but it's somebody else's name on it. So he'd spied that but he hadn't said anything about it and then so I thought everything was good you know. I was like yes I got away with that and then we stopped the train stopped it called winning or something like that and two police officers came on. Right we need a word we use son. So I tried to tell them it was like my friend's uncle's card or some really stupid story and I think they did believe me at first you know. Probably because I was so young they were like this surely not but anyway the radio didn't and it's turned out the card has been reported lost so that didn't work. That was the start. So that was the start. The very first start of the journey before you were getting away. Did that never make you want to stop then that you get caught your very first time? I never would see it at that point obviously I never thought that that I never thought it would happen again. Do you know what I mean it wasn't like I was saying right I'm going to make a career out of this. What happened was the police took me up to the school it was like I was at a boarding school Monday to Friday sort of thing. And the police took me up to the school and told it was like the sort of head teacher woman there basically and she was absolutely raging. She was like you know we're trying to do everything we can to help you. So I mean this was a school for children who had problems basically. So it was a residential unit so it was like a house basically. But there was like three different rooms three bedrooms and three kids stayed there. Like older teens or sort of thing. So she was quite annoyed and I can kind of see looking back on it. I can see they were trying to do everything they could for me. But I was just too far gone as I don't think there was anything they could have done for me. No I hadn't touched anything like that at that point. Literally I didn't even drink anything at that time. So I didn't have my first drink till I was like well I didn't get pished until I was 18. So I was good that way. That's not bad just followed at least one rule. I know that makes a change you know. So you started working in the phone shop. Is that when you started getting other people's details? So it was a call centre. It was taking inbound sales calls for private customers and business customers as well. So I didn't start doing it straight away. But after a week or two there I was obviously receiving all these calls and then you would go on the computer and type the customers details in and then they would pay with a card or whatever. So you would take card details. And then I just started thinking well I wonder what could be done with these card details. So I started writing things down. Obviously by this point you know I had a couple of other encounters using cards and stuff. So I realised that if you were going to get away with using them that you would have to know certain things about the customer. Cos this was back in the day when sometimes if you went into a shop and used a card it would basically give a message to whoever was putting the transaction through that they had to phone the bank and it would ask questions like your mother's maiden name and all these sorts of things. You don't get that so much now cos it is all chipping pin you know. But back then that was quite common. So I started writing down things but what I would do is basically tell the customer that their card has been referred to the bank. So can you just hold for a minute. So I put them on hold and then I would come back to them and say the bank are asking for some more information just for security reasons. And I would start asking them you know mother's maiden name passwords just whatever I thought would be helpful you know. And then quite often they would just give it no problem at all. In fact I don't think there was a single time they didn't. It would probably be very different now cos people are a lot more aware of those pairs. More security and stuff now more red flags everywhere. So that was the very start then just when you got everybody's information and you were going to swipe if they had made the phone call you had all the details to clarify it was you basically. So I would have all the information or not always have all the information but I would have the questions. It used to be very standard questions that they would ask you know mother's maiden name date of birth address postcode maybe the name of your employer or something like that but the questions were all very standard you know and that was basically something that I used to my advantage because I knew that regardless of which bank the card belonged to the chances are that at least two or three of those questions would be asked. But over time I mean you've got to remember I did this hundreds of times so I began to understand exactly what questions were asked by which banks there I would know from the first six or eight digits of the card number what bank it was you know not always if it was like a foreign bank or something I maybe wouldn't know that one. Was it after a certain limit that you spent say maybe spent over 300 or 500 with the phone through or was it just random? So it was either completely random which they would do from time to time or if their system had picked up an unusual spending pattern then they would sometimes request a what's called a referral basically so a referral would be done either completely random or based on you know unusual spending or if it was a particularly high transaction perhaps as well. So you started doing this every day? What, taking details? So I was doing it pretty much every single thing I mean that literally had a notebook filled with details and by the point when I well what actually happened was I went in one day and I'd been late a few times and the reason I'd been late is because I was out drinking so by this point I was out drinking and coming in late one day and that was it. I was told I was sacked. So you were sacked if you were drinking but no fraud? No, you were sacked me for being late. Fucks sake. So see if there's isn't no register that say 50 people report fraud on their accounts could they know track that that was coming for a certain company or a certain call centre? Yeah, so see now they would probably have the software to do that and it would pick it up very quickly but as I say things were so different back then there was certainly an amount of fraud but it wasn't the same as it is now just in terms of fraud detection procedures or a lot more pin point like you say if you've got 50 cards and they've all had fraud but they've all been used in a certain place within the last month or two then it can say but it might be something to do with that but what you've also got to remember is that every bank will have their own records and where the banks let themselves down sometimes is that they don't share information and there's several reasons for that number one is for economic reasons they don't want their competitors maybe to know what's going on with their business so that's one side of it but the other point is it's well to do with data protection so a lot of banks won't want to share information because it's not allowed, simply can't do it but there are ways around that so some of the work I've done since I came out of prison was to do with helping banks and I've done work with the Metropolitan Police in Scotland Yardden stuff like that as well just trying to help them kind of close the look polls or maybe work together better because there's ways it could be done they could share information without sharing private customer information it's just a case of making it work So what did you do after you get sacked in? Did you think that was game over? Did you just want to keep going and find another job where you can get details? So after I got sacked I had that book so I knew I was going to do something with it but at this point I was having a lot of issues with my parents because I was coming in late and they weren't happy do you know what I mean? I was coming in stupid Do they know what you were doing? No, at that point they didn't have a clue Did they ever see new clothes and new jewelry and where did you get that from? So there were a few times where they did see items appearing which generally speaking I wouldn't have been able to afford but they did kind of half believe me I think when I told them that it was causing my wages from work but I mean the thing is James at that point I wasn't really buying really flash stuff this wasn't like a I wasn't getting into Louis Vuitton or Manny and stuff like that at this point that came later the stuff I was buying back then was like maybe clothes but nothing fancy maybe getting into Topman or something like that or Burton's or whatever and then music stuff CDs or going for a haircut so it wasn't there wasn't anything really too flash happening at that point When did you start thinking right Annie up the ante here and just starting moving through the gears going for bigger things instead of couple of hundred quid to your couple of hundred quid there did you see that you could progress? I don't think it was something that happened overnight I think it was just more a case of I became more aware of the potential of these cards and I knew that I could buy things that were a bit more expensive so there is one point I guess where things did change quite considerably and that was when I started realising that corporate cards were the key to making huge purchases so the reason is because if you imagine a boss is taking away staff for a conference it wouldn't be unusual for them to be spending maybe five grand on air flights or £3,000 a hotel or something like that because it's a corporate card and some banks one in particular had this feature where you could actually phone them and tell them how much you were going to spend so you could phone them and obviously as long as you pass security you say I've got this thing that's coming up it's going to be like 15 grand or something and they would be like no problem at all so this feature was great because I could say for example at one point I decided to buy a Rolex so I phoned up and I told them there was going to be a transaction for £12,500 and they were like that's fine no problem we've put a note on so it should just go through and then sure enough the next day when I went back for the watch it just went through and they bother at all that wasn't the first big one this was later on but it was kind of building up to that so the first time it got kind of a bit more if you mean a luxury sort of thing was probably when I started travelling because up until this point so we're talking about maybe a year or two into this I hadn't really done much travelling or anything like that it had all been kind of stuff around and how old were you? so I'd say probably I must have been about 19 or something still young I would say either 18 or 19 what kind of feeling did this give you that you were earning money and you were kind of not singled out but kind of a loner and was this fueling your fire to kind of making something of my life obviously you're doing it for the wrong reasons but was that filling an emptiness and avoid with? I think what happened basically because I was able to buy things I was able to go into when I was able to start moving in adult circles like getting into pubs and meeting people and you know did you feel as if you were fitting in? I felt I think maybe for the first time I was actually having some people that were interested in me if that makes sense you know so part of the reason for that was obviously because I was able to spend money had all this money at my disposal probably using you though 100% it's funny because I didn't really think of it at the time I just thought this is great people actually like me and stuff like that some people genuinely did despite that they never really knew what was going on what the reality of my situation was there's a couple of people that I still keep in touch with but the majority of them know because it's not... I don't know I wouldn't like to maybe say that they've done anything wrong because we were all young there was a lot of fair weather friends just people who were around for the champagne and the drinks and I mean I'd like bought one point this girl that I hardly even knew it was a birthday party and I went and bought her a £50 voucher out of USC didn't even really know I gave her this card with a £50 voucher I mean that's crackpot material somebody did that to me maybe like what do you want but it was just that was the kind of thing I did because I was very much of the impression that money would buy friendship and obviously I realised it buys it on kind of friendship though doesn't it because when the money dries out nobody's ever been sitting with you when it eventually does so when you started travelling were you kind of escaping or you just wanted to get what you could out of it? I think it was a bit of both I just thought this is great let's ride with us I mean I just obviously falling out of my parents wasn't ideal but they were absolutely fed up I was treating them quite disrespectfully if I'm totally honest it feels as if you were doing they my favour maybe a wee bit don't be wrong the one thing I can say about my family is they've always been very supportive I fucked up quite a lot but they were always there for me as not to say they were always waiting with open arms but regardless of whatever happened they're the ones when you go to Corten get the jail, they're still there absolutely mate we can give them a rough ride I've told my story to a certain degree next year to everything the shitter I've done and you know yourself there's only ones that stand there the ones that are crying and the docker the ones that are just sicky what you're doing, you know you're doing wrong but there's fuck all anybody can do because you think there's a stage in your life where you think you know everything I still kind of think that even though I know I knew fuck all back then but you learn from your mistakes like we wouldn't be sitting here the now you wouldn't be telling your story if you know it's got to surface yet but it can be you look at your story and you think fuck me man was that that bad because at that time you probably fought to yourself it was fine you weren't hurt by anyone do you know what I mean so when you started getting your flight where was the first place you went to London was the first place I went to London was the first time I went by myself anywhere out of Glasgow it was London I went to and I always remember like just you know I got a taxi in London it's at one point I don't remember exactly where I was going to but the taxi was like it was a five minute journey or something it was like 20 quid and I was like ah it's fine so I gave the driver 30 quid do you know what I mean just basically I couldn't believe it I was in London I went round to Bond Street and went to all these shops and stuff even at that point I was still I still wasn't really spending massively I was looking but I wasn't really you know I remember at one point I met a group of like two or three American lassies that were in London studying and we just got on really well so I met up with them a couple of nights and then one afternoon we went out to Bond Street went into this jewellery I can't remember the name of it but it was like this jewellery was like you know what I'm talking about huge jewels in the window and stuff like that literally like biggest things I've ever seen in terms of jewellery and I went in and it says to one of the girls do you want to try it on so she's tried on this like mad ruby like necklace like a choker thing with huge stones in it and I was like how much is it that one sir is a million pounds I was like can we get that an American experience I don't think so no I mean there are some cards you'd get that with don't be wrong that you could easily spend that money on is there cards that you can get what's the limits what's the maximum you can get in a card some cards don't have any limit at all what kind of cards? there's a few that do this probably the most well known ones American Express ensuring card so it's a black card and the deal with it is it doesn't have a preset credit limit on it obviously American Express will have some kind of limit on it but they'll know how much you're worth and it basically goes up based on your spend and you've got to be invited for this card you can't just apply for it I think from the information I've read about it I think you have to spend at least $200,000 a year or £200,000 a year on it on a platinum card to then be invited for this so that much compared to the circulating in the world now no it's not I mean it's compared to the money that some people have got it's he-ho would there be security checks if you were to swipe for something for a million I'd imagine it would depend on you know it would depend on your previous spend you won't have a problem do you know what I mean that'll just go through on the nod somebody with that kind of money or status it'll just go through you know it was fucking crazy that how that can happen you've got to think though I mean these people are worth billions sometimes so these credit card companies would not want to do anything that might upset that person can you imagine like well just the example you've used Jay-Z because into a shop to buy a diamond bracelet or something at $2 million and his card bounces I mean he's not going to be happy with American Express or whatever card company it is so there's a few cards like that that don't have preset limits but there will be some kind of limit on it so when you're in that shop and she's got a million pound necklace were you thinking I'm going to get that one day or were you thinking that's out my reach no I don't think I thought either of those things I just thought I was a big man you know what I mean because it was like she was like oh my god I can't believe I've just tried on a million dollar necklace or a million pound necklace or whatever you know when we came out of the shop she was absolutely jumping she was so buzzing about it but so yeah so what was your plans then in London what were you thinking so I just couldn't have a good time and buy shit basically what was your biggest ever spend so the biggest thing that I've ever bought in terms of value would have been a BMW 7 series that I bought when I lived in Belfast but the thing was I never actually ever picked up the car basically I went for a test drive and one of my pals was with me at the time and then I couldn't drive I had no clue how to drive a car so it was so ridiculous like even just thinking back on it so stupid but me and my mate rocked up to the BMW showroom you know and I was like I just had to look at a few different cars and obviously the way I always thought about things back then was what's the most expensive one so it was like this 7 series and I think if I remember right it was about £50,000 or something and the guys like so the salesman you want to take it for a test drive so that sounds great and then as soon as we went to get in the car I realised that I couldn't drive I was like how is this going to work I said just you drive it to the salesman he was like are you sure I was like absolutely just you drive it so I was like I don't have my licence with me he was like oh it's fine I don't mind I was like no I'll just you drive it somebody would get busted if I tried to drive the car don't know what I'd have done so I got out of the car for a drive and then obviously I got out of the car I was like so what do you think and I'm standing in front of this guy one of my mates at the time he was like I'll take it how do you pay for it I paid a deposit so the full amount wasn't paid on a car but it was a deposit that was paid and the rest would have been paid when it was supposed to I think the deposit was about 10% or something so you never go at it how did you not pick it up because I got jailed the thing is even if I hadn't I don't think I would have been able to pick it up how else did you travel in the world so I've been all over America being in South America being all over Europe practically who was it using cards in America was it easy on South America so in America at the time it was different like literally some shops you would go into the card machine would be at your side of the till so you would basically swipe the card through and then you'd sign the receipt and sometimes they would ask to see the card but most of the time they didn't bother because it's quite common in America for folk to give their card to somebody else what it certainly was back then whereas over here it was kind of it was frowned upon you know but in America it would be like just take my credit card and go shopping or something like that so it was different their system was not anywhere near as advanced as ours in terms of fraud detection and stuff like that so in some ways it was a lot easier but I was always quite thinking about doing anything like that in America because it's something that they take so seriously over there even a small fraud crime you can get 10 years, 20 years a British card you was using? well of course because you're still committing it on their territory so you could go over there with any card from anywhere in the world but what you're doing is you're committing fraud on American soil so I was always very careful and what I did when I was over there was just try to use cash for everything just because I just didn't want to even risk it and don't fuck about over there man no they definitely don't what kind of stuff were you buying over there? I didn't really do a lot of spending there to be honest with you, just like clothes and the way it was is I would buy clothes, that was the thing that I spent a load of money on was clothes just always buying clothes because I was travelling I didn't really have this is so stupid but the amount of pairs of Calvin Klein boxer shorts I left in hotel rooms because I had no way to wash anything I would just go out and buy so I mean literally my life at that time was shopping, drinking sleeping, eating shopping, drinking, sleeping so on and so forth that was what my life consisted of just travelling the world trying to see the world eating, drinking, champagne how much did you spend in night clubs and stuff? fortunes man, there was a few times so I remember one night I was in Miami and I was only there for three nights but I stayed at this really swanky hotel in Miami and arranged for a limazine to take me out to go to these clubs and it was so stupid right because I was thinking I was going to rock up pure like you know looking like some like the dawn basically you know, a stretch limo tunes blaring pulled up at this night club and like the guys came out and opened the door like literally people just looked and then looked away as if it was just like normal so I think that happens all the time just to the impressment of absolutely no one but no I mean it would be quite common for me to go into a bar or night club and like just order champagne for everyone but I think maybe the biggest bar tab I've ever had somewhere was about maybe £20,000 and that was just fade bottles of Dom Perignon and that just for everybody so that was the kind of shit that I used to do and it was you know, I mean don't my wrong it was a nice feeling but as you say looking back on it you know at the time everybody was over you like who is this guy this guy is amazing you know but see the thing is for all these things that I was doing James deep inside I was not a very happy person at all you know How many credit cards did you have on your wallet one time? I think I don't know it's hard to say because it varied you know like recently cards would get used and then they would get stopped and then they would be disposed of you know so I was always like I made every mistake I made a mistake I tried to make sure I never made that mistake again so such as being caught with like two cards and two different names like you know I got arrested or not arrested pulled by the cops in Manchester once and it was a case of I had this card and I also had like a paper copy of a driving licence that I'd managed to get in this name so they asked about that because what had happened was I went into a pub in Manchester and the guy behind the bar recognised me from a previous time using a different card or a different name so he called the cops and then I left the bar but the cops had followed me and you know I showed them that and I showed them the licence and basically they let me away with it so but if I'd had two cards with two different names on then I would have been screwed so I always tried to make sure whatever mistakes I made that I never made them twice like any receipts for anything that was bought they were chucked away immediately in the bin straight away How long did you end up in Canada for? Well so I was in Canada I've been to Canada three times and the first time I went passed without incident that was the first time I went proper international first class flight over there and everything that was great but that was the first time I was a way proper international the second time I went I had a bit of an incident so I went back to my hotel and obviously something had so I always tried to make sure that whatever was happening with these cards I was keeping up to speed with it so I'd be phoning and checking and trying to make little inquiries or make a purchase at a telephone box like you know it used to be I don't know if you can still do this but it used to be able to put your card into the telephone box to make a call so I would know if it went through if I was able to make a call that the card was still okay so it was just all these little things that you're constantly doing to check but this time in Canada so I had little things that I would do so whenever I was staying at a hotel whenever I returned to the hotel room after being out I would chap the door and I would just say housekeeping just to see if there was anyone in the room because obviously I didn't I knew that if they were going to try and catch my hotel that's where they'd be waiting so this one time I got back to the hotel in Toronto and I was carrying hundreds of bags of shopping didn't chap the door just walked in boom, busted I didn't get busted though properly because I knew they were there I heard walkie talkies going so I dropped everything and just ran so basically ran down the back stairs of the hotel and I swear to God it was like something out of film so I didn't know where I was going I just kept running burst through just like a double swing door and I was into the kitchen it's like chef's prepared stuff all the way running through the fucking kitchen gets to the back door, unfortunately it was open like you know it's like basically where they throw the bin bags out I went down these like stairs and there's this wee guy sitting in his car like just an old guy so I pulled out my wallet and I just went Canadian Secret Service swear to God I jumped in the back of the car I was like I told him I was like we need to come and hear your vehicle sir and he was like oh my God the guy was an ex army like ex Canadian army so he was like pure happy to help and all that he was like obviously the highlight of his life I think so I told him to take me to the airport so we arrived at Toronto airport pretty much he was trying to ask me a question I was like I can't tell you sir it's top secret I was totally swollen I couldn't believe it so we got to the airport and he was like he was asking if I want him to take me to the police station at the airport I was like nah nah nah it's fine just take me to the terminal booked a flight to Chicago and got the fuck out of there ASAP so you'd think after that I would have learned my lesson about maybe not going back to the same place again How did you know you were looking for you in Canada? How did I know? How did they know to look for you? I don't know You always keep your passport on you as well so the only thing always kept my passport on me never left it anywhere just in case you never know but I think the only thing I can think of that the reason why they knew about that was because I used to use like travel websites like Expedia was it travel velocity or something there was all these different ones I would use and I think what happened was that they became aware and that's the only thing I can think of because I still don't know a definitive answer to how they knew about that but somebody knew something but at that time I managed to escape the next time I wasn't so fortunate How did they catch you again? Why did you go back the third time? I went back to Toronto but I didn't stay at the same hotel it was a completely different hotel and that's where the Expedia thing came in so there was a fraud investigator Expedia now you've got to be in mind a lot of the time I would have a physical credit card but sometimes I didn't have it so it would be a case that I would have card numbers card details so what I was doing was going on and booking flights through these websites these travel booking websites and this guy Expedia had become aware of what was going on so I'd tried to con the system a wee bit because I reckon that they would have a thing set on their website where basically if I tried to make because all the bookings I made were always in my own name so I reckon that if I tried changing my name slightly but I knew that the name couldn't be changed too much because I would have to explain it when I arrived at the hotel that it was just an error in typing it in sort of thing so I changed the name slightly like one letter out of place or something like that two letters out of place excuse me I mean I got to the hotel it was all fine, I checked in no bother at all and then this time I wasn't so lucky because I arrived back at the hotel but they weren't in the room this time they were just plain clothes at the reception and I got pointed out by the reception staff and that was it busted well I mean it wasn't the first time I'd been arrested but it was a lot more scary because it was in another country and I kept saying to myself it's cool, it's Canada it's like a pure forward thinking liberal country probably way absolutely brand new obviously it's never good getting arrested but you know I mean I wasn't too worried whereas if it had been across the border I would have been shitting myself so I but it was probably one of the most horrendous experiences of my life to be honest with you because it was mental I mean it was a totally different thing like the prisons over here I mean obviously it's a long time since I've been in a prison here the way it used to be I mean compared to Canada they were quite I don't want to say decent because prison is shite it doesn't matter where it is it's still shite but over there an orange jumpsuit on you're in a cage basically so you're in a cell which is in turn in a cage and basically you get your food and it's just like papped through a wee hatch and everybody's got to go and pick up their food and you sit around this table and there was people getting shanked all sorts of shite going on I mean I've never seen it with my own eyes but I heard it once or twice just crazy shite happening so I think this was when the wee boy in me came out because I was just like very upset so Canada I would have been 20, 21 maybe 21 I think a wee dafty literally going on but still deep inside just a wee dafty Take some bottle to be doing it and travelling, you're doing it yourself what doing all that I didn't take anyone travelling with me the only time I did that was when I went to so I booked a flight for me and one of my mates so that's a guy I still keep in touch with I won't mention his name if you don't mind but that guy I still keep in touch with from my days in Belfast decent guy I'm going to book his flights we'll go to Amsterdam for the weekend so booked these flights mind I was saying about having little checks I would do to make sure things were okay so this one time it was an airline so I phoned up and I said I pretended to be from that airline's desk at the airport and just said listen our systems are down just now is there any chance you could check this booking for me so I gave them the booking reference and the guy on the other end of the phone he said actually is there a wee problem with that booking I said alright I said what is it he says well he says there's a note on here that says it's a potential fraud booking and the police have to be contacted so I was like oh my god I said right well the police are not far from here I'll go over and let them know and the guy on the phone was like is the passenger still there and I said yeah the passenger still there I said he's not too far away I'm just going to go and let the police know just now I said oh okay perfect thanks very much so I got off the phone I was like right we're not going to Amsterdam so that was fucked I said to him tell you what mate we'll just go to Edinburgh instead he didn't seem too happy about that you know so when you were in Canada because who did you call and pretend that you were the embassy right so what basically happened was at the end of the whole procedure my court appearances in Canada I was very fortunate I got away with that either was it three months no sorry I got a year right but I'd been there for four months and basically because the conditions in the jail were horrendous the judges at court were giving like three days to one credit so for however long you'd spent in remand it counted as three days of your sentence so ended up being that my four months meant that I'd been there for like a year so that was my sentence complete so it was time served basically but because I'd been ordered to be deported from Canada that I had to be arranged as well so I just wanted to know when it was being deported and I tried phoning up the Canadian immigration department and I said to them can you tell me when I'm being deported but they wouldn't tell me anything for security reasons you can understand obviously so they wouldn't give me the information so I thought because this was the way my brain worked I was like I'll find a way so I phoned up phoned up again as whoever it was from the British Embassy and I just said to them we're calling up to see when Mr Castro is being deported put on up your stuff stuff up all that British accent and then the guy couldn't have been more health he was like ah yeah Mr Castro he's going out on Monday and then he had to look and he said oh we've been asked to contact Detective Ralph Eastgate he threw airport to let him know and I was like oh that's okay I said don't worry the embassy will take care of that for you and the guy was like ah that's great that's less work I have to do thank you so much so at this point I knew that somebody was potentially going to be waiting for me I swear to God that flight shite yourself? seriously shite myself because I knew that there was a chance it might have worked but then there was also a chance because it's always the unknown I don't know for sure so what happened the only day I was being deported they came and picked me up they took me to a holding centre at the airport for an hour or two and then took me over to get on my flight so they basically took me through the airport and stuff and when you're deported from Canada you get this it's like an envelope of all your information your tickets and everything your passport and everything to put in this envelope and it's got a mad rubber stamp on it I've never seen anything like it in my life but this gets passed to the purser on the plane and what's supposed to happen is they're supposed to escort you to immigration at your destination and pass your things over and say yeah this person's been deported but what ended up happening was the purser came over and started speaking to me he was just like what happened what happened to you I got involved in a fight and basically they just had way too much to drink and the guy obviously felt sorry for me he could say a young boy he could have been any of us so when he landed he came over and gave me my stuff he said good luck wish you all the best so I was like passport that envelope I literally tried to stuff it in my pocket so I didn't want anyone to see it so went up to the border control gave him my passport the guy just looked at me and said welcome home sir walked through right but at this point I still didn't know I was in the clear because this is what the cops do see when it's fraud and stuff like they want to catch you by stealth so I was like literally just wanted to get the fuck out of that airport as quickly as possible so got out of Heathrow airport I was like okay I still need to get back to Glasgow I had no money because the Canadian authorities had confiscated all my cash had no cards nothing and then so I was just sitting like somewhere I can't remember I went into central London I was just sitting somewhere and basically like went through all the stuff in that envelope and I found the ticket that the Canadian authorities had booked and the credit card number was at the bottom with the expiry date on that I couldn't believe it I was like really so I thought to myself this might not work but I tried booking a flight from London Gatwick to Glasgow and it went through I couldn't believe it so just seeing a look back is probably the cheekiest thing I've ever done literally cheekiest fuck so when you come back from Canada you end up back up the road what happened then how are you thinking I'm just going to keep going how long were you doing it for this time so about four years it's a long time man I mean it wasn't like you've got to remember in that four years I spent some time in prison as well like shorter sentences so I wasn't I wasn't at liberty that whole time but I just didn't learn my lesson so what did you do after Canada so came back to Glasgow and then got involved in it again just just kept going with it basically and what happened was I was staying at a used to be a hotel in Glasgow at the Bath Street called The Art House Hotel and you might remember that from your party in days James cocktail so I was staying there one night and basically I came back the bar was open until three o'clock in the morning or whatever for residence so I came back and in the bar was a couple of famous DJs who were there so ended up chatting away to them and then when the bar shut we all went up to my room and just got room service drinks so they came up to the room and there was like Louis Vuitton luggage and all that sitting there so they must have thought I was absolutely minted or something anyway ended up getting to know them a wee bit and invited over to Belfast so I was like do you know what fuck it will go so I went to Belfast it was the first time I'd ever been there and had such a great time and ended up getting a flat there so I rented a flat now this was the first time I'd ever been anywhere and actually rented somewhere to live kind of thing and that was when I started partying like getting out and just getting full of it and had a lot of good times over there but that's when also when everything really started to fall apart I don't know if there's maybe some correlation there I don't know possibly so there might be some guard comes down a bit getting sloppy 100% but seeing all honesty and I've asked myself this question many times James I think by that point I had really decided I'd had enough and the reason was because I actually did meet a few people whilst I was there that I really really did like genuinely got on with them didn't matter the fact that what I was doing they didn't know about as people we liked each other we had a good laugh I just started to really get to me like big time that I couldn't really ever tell him about who or what I was at that time you both have liar aren't you that's what it comes down to everything you're telling people what have I told them before you know I made it easier because I made stories that I stuck to for everybody so it became a lot easier but when I first started meeting people all over the place I knew people in so many different places because of the travelling I was doing some of them I told they said because people genuinely when you've got that kind of lifestyle they want to know how are you doing this who are you that enables you to have this luxurious lifestyle so what I was what I was telling people at first was that I worked for the Ministry of Defence so I was giving over this whole fucking James Bond this kind of vibe bonkers innit so that was kind of what I was telling people and then over time I realised that actually a better way of dealing with it was just because I was staying in all these different hotels I told people that I was a hotel consultant and basically I went and helped businesses hotels by staying in the hotels and taking notes about the service and all the rest of it and that just nobody ever asked me any questions after that What was your mum and dad saying when you were in Canada in the jail? Did they know you were in the jail? They knew because obviously I had to tell them where I was despite whatever was going on I wasn't even going to leave my parents thinking what was going on Did they tell you to get your shit together or were you just a loose cannon again? Several times a bit more I'm not going to say accepting of it because we were brought up to be respectful and we didn't steal but this point obviously because I'd been arrested a few times they knew what was going on but there was very little they could do James if I was going to stop doing this it had to be my decision Of course man it's like anybody that's an addict nobody can do anything that's down to the individual you're still your mum's son no matter what you do no matter what crime you'd have done should there still came to visit you should there still been there So when you were in Belfast then what was life like when you were starting to get tired you were drinking, partying and you were thinking I've done this for four or five years now were you saving money at that time or was it just everything going out of the door? There was a bit of both basically because what I'd started doing when I was over there was something that was totally different profitable in terms of actual cash because when I had credit cards it wasn't always easy or it wasn't always possible to get cash on those cards so there'd be some times where I'd have cards and I could buy anything but I didn't have any actual money so when I was in Belfast I started taking trips down south of the border and basically picking up money transfers so a lot of credit card companies have got this facility where if you're overseas and you lose your card so wire money to you up to the value of your credit limit sometimes so I was just using that and going down to Dublin which is considered for the purpose of this a foreign country and picking up cash and sometimes I would come back up to Belfast where bags full of money Jay, would you pick the cash up okay? Did you need ID? No, you didn't need any ID because the way it was explained to them the passport had been lost I've lost all my documents and then they would set up a test question so as long as you knew the answer to the question and you had the transfer number Like your password? So you would try to find loopholes and everything just to constant every day to try and beat the system so when you started getting the cash then but did your eyes just become pound signs again? because it's not just bags and jewellery and clothes now things changed a lot Yes things changed a lot at that point because I mean as I say there was a part of me that was just really fed up with it I didn't want to do it anymore I bought a set of decks and I started playing music and having mad parties in my flat I had a flat right in the middle of the town so it was perfect after clubbing whatever like two or three nights a week everybody would come up to mine and get the tunes on and it was just great but when you start doing that you can't be on the ball when you're doing that it's just impossible to stay up all night and then you've got to be on the ball for your professional Did you feel untouchable at any point? I think, aye there was a few times I did Even though you've been in the jail I will learn for this and not get caught again The thing to remember is that I got arrested quite a few times but only for small things and it wasn't until the very end when somebody put the whole thing together and they realised exactly the extent of it cos he'd been doggedly chasing me for well it must have been three or four years anyway So you were under investigation then? 100% and that was down to the airlines because the airlines had so there was a dude that worked for British Airways at Heathrow and he'd seen me passing through Heathrow a number of times and probably didn't help but the flight had been cancelled and I went up and started shouting at him just being a prick basically but he's obviously seen this really young guy travelling first class and going all these different places and I don't know for some reason he's done a bit of digging and found that he thought something was going on so this guy actually what he did one time was I was travelling from London to Manchester so just a very short flight and the aircraft pulled away from the gate and then halfway to the runway the plane stopped and the pilots came on and said listen unfortunately we have to return to the gate because there's some rogue baggage on the plane we need to get it off sort of thing and I knew something was not right because I knew that the way it worked I'd been on that many flights to know that what they were basically saying was that the baggage was on the flight with the passenger wasn't and I knew that that didn't happen because unless the passenger was on the flight the baggage didn't go on in the story for security reasons so I was like that doesn't make sense but went back to the gate anyway ensuring off two cops came on the plane and I had like so I used to cut a book with a copy of the Financial Times James right so basically I was like that with the newspaper did you ever watch Indiana Jones in Alaska said so you know when they're on the zeppelin and Sean Connys like that with the newspaper that came on basically so that was me with the newspaper and it didn't matter because they knew my seat number anyway but I was just hoping that maybe so anyway they pulled me off the flight and so this little sort of bit next to the runway it was bizarre and the cop it soon became apparent to me that they actually didn't have any evidence at all this was just this guy's hunch because he was saying this cop was saying to me things like imagine what your mum's going to think when she finds it about this and kept trying to get me to say that it wasn't my card I was like no it is my card it's been booked with 100% it's my card and then because I realised that they didn't actually have any evidence I was just I just kept sticking to my story and I couldn't believe it when they were like well right okay we'll just need to let you go then I was like I wasn't expecting that at all I thought I'm done here you know yeah can you see when you're booking flights obviously your name's on the passport they did not have that details then no so I mean the name when I was booking the flights the flights were always booked in my name because obviously it had to match the passport but it was slightly different for domestic flights at that time I think now it's a bit stricter obviously but the thing what they were saying was that the flight had been booked or the ticket had been booked with a card in this guy the guy from British Airways was saying this now just to put you in the picture right so this guy from British Airways is standing at the side the whole time and when the police were letting me go I could tell just by looking at his face he was absolutely bailing no he was raging because they were letting me go but they didn't the guy you were arguing with for that start so he was like one of the senior managers or something like that I don't know but I still remember his face but he was absolutely raging so what happened was he came up to me like after the the police said right we're going to have to let this guy go and he came up to me and he was like it was so fake I'm so sorry about what's happened please let us make it up to you here's a voucher to go and stay at this hotel at the airport for the night and we'll get you booked on the first flight tomorrow morning I'm really sorry for the mistake but I knew he was talking shite he was absolutely raging so anyway that night I just didn't go to that hotel because I knew something was wrting about it so I went and stayed with a friend in central London but it turned out after so I didn't know this until after the very end came and I was arrested for the final time but it turned out that I was right in that decision because what actually had happened was he'd went back and then someday at the CID he thought he'd picked up something or seen something or he'd been in touch or whatever happened in like four squad cars racedown to the hotel to try and catch me into the room I wasn't there so it was a very lucky decision but you end up getting quite anyway I end up getting quite anyway but just not at that exact moment you always have gut feelings that something ain't right quite often I get it a lot when I meet people and I just know that there's something I'm not necessarily a bad person but I think when you meet people you've got to trust your energy if you meet somebody and you get a bad vibe of them, I'm not saying that I've never been wrong because I have but very rarely and if I ever meet somebody and I get that kind of feeling I just keep away from them So when did you get done for the big one? So that kind of follows on from the Edinburgh trip I was talking about earlier on so we were supposed to be going to Amsterdam that didn't happen so ended up booking a flight from the other airport in Belfast to Edinburgh so we left I booked into a hotel in Edinburgh called The Class House and I'd stayed there before so I'd stayed there once before and that time I'd stayed there was when I went to a jeweller's in George Street in Edinburgh and bought the Rolex so what I'd done was obviously when I was saying earlier on about receipts receipts always get bind so I'd basically bought that watch that time and went back to the hotel in Edinburgh and chucked the receipt in the bin so I'll explain why that's relevant later but so me and my mate checked into this hotel and the following morning we woke up, I went for a shower and I told him I'm going out for 10-15 minutes I'll be back shortly so I left the hotel, short woke up to Harvey Nichols went in and bought £2,500 a gift sorry £2,000 a gift vouchers on this American Express card it was one of the rare occasions where the card wasn't in my name right so anyway the customer service room was on the other ID, a fair question it was a big purchase and I was just such an arshole about it I was like nah it's fine just give AmEx a call they'll verify everything, don't worry about it when you go so she phoned them up and sure enough obviously I knew all the details so they approved the transaction but see what I was saying earlier on about unknown unknowns so I went back to the hotel, picked up my mate and said right let's go and get some clothes went back to Harvey Nichols Mainzware department and up to this point every time I went in that shop I spent at least £2,000 so the Mainzware manager was always the first one to come out and see me, how you doing get this in, get that in, would you like to have a look at this and I would literally go round the full Mainzware department and go right I'll try this I'll try this, I'll try this maybe 20 or 30 items of clothing to try on so we're halfway around doing this and I said to the manager I'm just going to nip to the loo quickly so I popped into the loo, did my business and then when I went to open the cubicle door this guy was standing there and like grabbed my arm he was like we need a word with you mate and this is what I'm saying about getting sloppy very sloppy as well I had about three or four different identities in my wallet so there was absolutely no fucking way I was talking myself out of this one but probably the worst thing that happened that day was obviously getting arrested was shit but probably the worst thing that happened was so my mate had been with me there had been rumours in Belfast that I'd been up to stuff and he asked me straight out you know he said is this true now there was no other answer I could have given him I couldn't have told him so I said to him that don't be silly man like you know I would tell you and he was like right okay I trust you so when I've walked out obviously the cops have apprehended him as well because he was with me so I came out of the bathroom looked over and I just saw his face and he just looked at me and went you know and he was like that hit me right here man that was hard that was probably the worst thing that happened that day if I'm totally honest with you yeah that's the thing that can affect you it's not just yourself because you become selfish you think about yourself that nobody else matters but when you start bringing everybody else into their lives into the seat then it becomes a different story was that the moment you decided right I need to start making changes maybe not that exact moment because what I was thinking exactly then was fuck how did I go with this basically yeah so what the reason I was mentioning it so basically when they arrested me I had this Rolex watch on a solid gold Rolex it was 12.5 grand I think the same watch now was probably about 25 grand or something but they took me back to the police station and I said where did you get this and I said well I bought that and I think what I actually told them was that I bought it at an auction in Boston, Massachusetts that was the first thing that came into my head and I might have gotten away with that except that the staff at the hotel had found a receipt in the bin when they cleaned the room the previous time I was there and because it was a receipt for a 12.5 grand watch they thought maybe the gentleman might need this so they kept it so when the police went to the hotel the staff told them about that and that was it so I got done for that and various other things as well You don't know if you've already been getting foleyed but if they catch you for one thing they'll be thinking I've not got enough evidence so you don't know every time you were in that room they were going after you checking your stuff, taking out your receipts building a case You don't know, that's very possible I never even thought about that but that's very possible because what I have asked myself this question if they kept the receipt for me why did they not tell me with anything the next time I came at the hotel when I checked in all you left us here last time How have they been keeping tabs on you for three, four years they've been just going around everywhere checking every bin, every shop every receipt just to build evidence because if you do you've got two grand worth of shit you're not going to get the jail for that but if you've got a 12.5 grand receipt you've done a Rolex it's enough to build a case I never thought about it like that but I've asked myself the question no why did they not give it to me that could be the answer 1 million percent you've already been getting tabs on you now you've removed they've no hide, 500 quidder coffees or whatever, meals, champagne we should channel it often so that's for me they've probably been getting surveillance at that time especially if you're doing big hits so when you get sent I've got two years what did they do you for so I was done for about 80 grand I think was the total on the charge sheet because I get transferred so basically the police fucked something up when I got arrested there that time so they had to let me go I went to Stockton Prison in Edinburgh for two weeks and my lawyer done something they've made some mistake or whatever so they had to let me go and I was just like I couldn't believe it I was like I can't believe I'm actually getting away with this again so the minute they let me go I'm off ski but it wasn't to be because I had an outstanding probation order in Manchester so there was two cops waiting to take me away when I was released from Stockton so taking down to Manchester long story short pulled up magistrates court I was given a lawyer like a duty lawyer who was shite so I asked if I could speak to the court and they said we're not normally supposed to do that but anyway I gave them a spiel but I'm so sorry I didn't comply with the order like I've totally changed my life now bla bla bla they went away and there were deliberations and when they came back the magistrates were like so we've listened to what you've said and obviously said something prophetic like the sun is shining on you today or something like that and we're going to give you a £50 fine so I was like I couldn't believe it so I went downstairs to get my stuff and the cops here this time waited to take me to London and I knew that was it as soon as they mentioned London cops from London weren't chasing me for anything else it was only this guy that he'd throw so sure enough taking down to London he'd throw and that was where I got done he'd throw CID so how long did it take to think London you'd done your sentence? so I got two years and the first roughly I was on the land and then I got sent to an open prison which was fine it's not too bad it's fraud it's no murder so you're not your categories I was initially category B which everyone is when the first one and then I was put as a category D because of the crimes I had committed there was no real danger to the public just a danger to yourself I pretty much ran I mean like what jail did you go to in London? I went to as Bournemouth Scrubs that's tough it wasn't that bad actually I know it's got a terrible reputation but actually when I was there it wasn't too bad it was a jail shite mate as I say it's funny you hear people I'm sure you've probably had people in your show before saying it's a doddle and stuff like that I don't know if they have anybody that says that they're full of shite but you know you have heard people say that in the past of course but that's what I know they've been broken by it it's not a nice experience it's shite What were you thinking when the door gets shut and your cell gets shut was that when it all cut you that? So not that no I wouldn't say it was even then because as I said I'd been in prison before but the thing that was different this time I'd like to think party it was me because I was a wee bit older and I think in mend particularly there's a big change in us between the ages of 18 and 21 it's only three years but I think we change a lot in those three years and this time so I was 21 21.5 or something the last time when I got put in in jail what basically happened at that time was two things number one was I saw people coming in and out of prison two or three times that were just under 60s and 70s and stuff like that and I was just like I don't want that to be me I think I'd finally realised that this was it was only going to get worse because I could keep doing it but every time I got jail it would just be for longer and longer and longer so there was that side of me but I also had some amazingly good fortune which was there had been obviously newspaper reports about me and I got a letter from a guy called Neil Forsythe who was an author and a writer I think he was writing for FHM at the time the lads mag and he was basically interested in writing a piece for them so I said ok this was when I was in open prison so he came and took me out for the day now I didn't realise this at the time I got into a lot of shit for that because that was actually against the rules you weren't supposed to go out and do media pieces while you were in prison you know but I didn't realise so anyway we did it and afterwards he wrote to me again and said listen it's a great story I think there's potentially a book there would you be interested so I just thought you know what what the fuck else have I got going on in my life right now nothing so I agreed to do it and it's probably one of the best decisions I've ever made because it gave me something to focus on and the other thing as well which I realised before I made my decision I'd already said to myself well if I do this I can't ever go back to it because everyone would know I wouldn't have that anonymity anymore that was my thoughts anyway I'd be well known for a certain time when the book came out I was so you've got your book I didn't even know did you not know so the book's called other people's money wishing people get this book we'll plug it so on Amazon as I say it's a guy called Neil Forsythe that wrote the book and since then he's went on to do a few other bits and pieces for the BBC and stuff he's wrote a few TV programmes and stuff as well so I think it certainly helped him launch his career as well so a few good things came out of it how was it then laying yourself bare on in a book for being a liar for years so how hard was that? at the time it wasn't that hard because at the time I was just partying loads I was doing the book I did a radio interview one day and I was absolutely at my face I had this call I was going to do this live interview I think it was an Irish radio station and it had been up all night partying and the call came through as I was in the middle of walking from one party to another I was walking through a park basically and the call came through and I'm absolutely bottle of buck fast in my bag sat down to take this call and I don't know how I got through it I listened to it afterwards and I was like you would never have known but it was fucked you know it was crazy so there was a lot of good things came out of it as well but what's the estimate that you've done over three million? I was only ever charged with 80 grand but at one point it was mentioned that the police reckoned it might be somewhere in the region of two and two and a half million pound I don't know how they've got that figure and I've thought about it many many times because obviously I wasn't keeping track we're keeping record for obvious reasons but I think it could be somewhere in that because I was staying in hotels at maybe four or five grand a night that was a regular occurrence but if I was in London I was staying at maybe the Ritz or the Dorchester sometimes the rooms were 20 grand a night What's the difference for a 20 grand? It's not enough definitely not and the thing is since then I've had a look at obviously one thing that I've developed in doing all that stuff was I know proper luxury from pretend luxury and there isn't the only thing that's really the difference in those kind of rooms is the size of the room some of them they'll provide you with a 24 hour butler and that butler's just there for you that whole time you're in the hotel How much can you eat 24 hours? To be honest with you mate if you've got billions right fair enough I would say so nobody needs that nobody needs that I still like nice things that I work myself for them and whatever I buy in my life now is mine So when you get out of the jail, done your book how did family in that treat you then? Did they know you had changed turned the corner or were you still this not thinking were you thinking to yourself have I changed or was that I was always potentially going back the way? There was a few times it nearly happened but to be totally honest with you there was a few times since I came out of jail when I've been on Mars and I've went to make that move like not recently last time was probably about 15 years ago but there was a few times when I did actually go I was ready for making that move to go and do something but the thing is now I've got too much to lose I'm a lot more at peace with myself and there's too much good things going on in my life I've got a lot to be grateful for whereas back then the difference was that I didn't really have anything to lose You're selfish, you don't care who you hurt you don't care what you do you just want to feed your own pockets At that time absolutely that's the way I felt whereas now it's very much not about that at all because I know that the damage and hurt that would cause not only to myself but to my family because see the thing is James I put my family through hell mate I can imagine my mum and my dad worrying sick about me because I was only a young boy and I was in a jail full of rapists and murderers I can totally imagine that and the police came out of my house and searching my house, raiding my house and questioning my brother and stuff like that because maybe I didn't see it first hand I didn't realise just how much hassle and pain I was causing them whereas now the thought of even I just wouldn't but at least you're identifying with it now at least you're trying to make amends at least you're trying to help people instead of a lot of people stay in that life but you know yourself when you just get out the jail if you're on your ass you think it's easy just to go back to the even though it can be an easy buck it's hard as well because the other shit that comes with it it ain't fucking easy life ain't easy no matter if you're doing good or bad it's painful if you're doing the right things you attract better things into your life absolutely when you started making your transition starting making changes what did you start doing with your life that was a bit more positive did it take a few years or did it happen instantly? it took me a long time to be at peace with myself about it you know I mean people often say what about the people that you've hurt now see at the time I wasn't really thinking about anything like that my view at the time was it doesn't matter what I do because these cards the people are not going to pay for it anyway the banks will just pay it and that'll be it I thought my view was that because people weren't responsible if it was somebody else that had used their card so they wouldn't have to pay anything but that's only part of the picture really you know there was one time I bought a a flight for one of my pals I knew when I lived in Dublin for a short time his mum was travelling over to Birmingham for some engagement or whatever and I bought her ticket because they didn't have a credit card so he asked me was there any chance you could buy the ticket I was reluctant but I couldn't find a good enough reason to say no so I had to do it and the problem was the flight was booked a month in advance which was far too much time normally when I booked flights I would be booked straight away and it was flights for either that day or the next day the latest and then what happened was this guy's mum has turned up at the airport in Dublin because obviously it's came through now that makes me feel sick because I'm like somebody done that to my mum I don't want to kill them but I didn't mean it, it wasn't deliberate I definitely didn't want that to happen so there's a few that's probably one of the worst things really but there's a few bits and pieces where I've caused harm to somebody else and it hasn't been something I've set out to do but it's just come inadvertently as a result of me being a rehearsal and that's what's happened so things like that it took me a while to get over it to actually just be at peace with myself because I think I spent a long time and I think you might probably identify with this but spent a long time thinking that I didn't really deserve to have any good things happening in my life because of all the shite that I've done of course and that really did take me I would say maybe only within the last five years or so have actually I'm still working on that I've been on a good path in the last six years and kept my hands clean and tried to work hard but you still think about the past like I said at the start, I'm going to tell my story next year and get it more in depth the shite that I've done and the shite that I'm not proud of but I am human, I do make mistakes I don't portray myself as no fucking saint I still make mistakes to this day I just know the decisions that I make are my decisions now I can't blame anybody I was very good at blaming everybody everybody else's fault you just it's survival mode if you start making money then it's a wee bit I'm doing something with my life but if you ain't making it legit you ain't doing it for a call you're just digging yourself a deeper hole and it can be difficult and I can understand that's why when I speak no matter who I speak to I can understand what everybody's coming from you mentioned something before we started recording earlier we were just having a chat and you said something about self-sabotage that was something that I used to do all the time things would be going well for me in a certain aspect something I was doing in my life and then I would do something that would totally fuck it up nothing illegal or that just something that just stopped that progress from going on any further and it's only been literally within the last maybe four or five years where I've managed to curtail that kind of behaviour and stop myself from making those decisions but discussion with friends of mine so maybe it's just because or maybe it was just because you just weren't happy with yourself and you were still feeling as though you didn't deserve anything still trying to figure yourself out I don't think that ever ends I speak to older people sometimes I don't mean older people that have had the same experience as me just older people in general and quite often they'll say that never stops you're always on a voyage of discovery but I like to think that the voyage I'm on now is a lot more smooth smoother sailing Would you think back looking at that part of your life is it tired you out? How could I have done that? I know right so when I look I mean truthfully I look back at that I'm like a totally different person literally a completely different person because the way I thought back then don't be wrong I still remember how I was thinking back then and it was crazy literally some of the stuff I would do there's no fucking way I would do those things now not even so much stuff to do with fraud I mean just in general some of the ballsy shit that I did and there's just no way I would do it now but again part of that's down to I've got too much to lose now but there's a lot to be said for growing up and getting older and looking at things differently because you don't get done for fraud there's no buy something and somebody rattled your card a payment or something? a payment came out it was a furniture company I had to laugh mate really I mean I got the money back but I still had to laugh because I was like that's ironic like the ultimate irony for that to happen to me but it was funny but it goes to show everybody else because through his way absolutely I know people have had there will be times when I've done stuff where people have looked up their statement they've not known anything about it and they've got a statement in and massively had serious worries because you don't have an American Express and you're rattling 25 grand at a pop and the company was paying it so there was a time I had a corporate American Express card and basically I must have spent I think it was about as you say roughly about 25 grand but the company was just paying it every month I don't know why maybe it was the owner's card and it was just the accountant I don't know what happened but three months in a row it got paid and I was like this is amazing because I was just like this is brilliant How do you feel speaking about it and stuff? About what I did sometimes it's quite cathartic it's bizarre because when that vice video came out I got a lot of messages of people I mean literally some of the messages I've got and people asking for advice on how to do it you know but I keep saying them like literally last night I try and respond to everyone because I think it's the right thing to do but some of the messages come through and I'm not answering that it's just like crazy things but there was one that came through last night it was a guy and he was getting like pissed off at me because I hadn't responded to him he was asking me how to commit fraud and I was like mate are you seriously expecting me to tell you how to commit fraud I said I can't help you with that I said you shouldn't even be asking me that and he was like oh I'm really sorry but I've had a lot of like there was one guy from fucking Jordan or something like that that was messaging me saying you know I need some help I've got like somebody's going to kill me if I don't get three grand within a week and I'm like That's a bit heavier somebody it's weird the way but how do you think fraud now, to these days active to 15 years ago is it total on 18 days or still look polls it could still be done 100% if not easier because all the online shopping stuff there's different so it's changed a lot but it can still be done so a lot of the work that I've done since basically when the book came out I started getting phone calls and messages and emails from banks airlines various different types of companies that wanted to utilise my knowledge and actually this is one of the good things that happened where I started to realise that maybe things were getting better for me and that was when companies were asking me to come and give advice to them take part in conferences workshops and show their staff how to spot fraud and things like that so there was a lot of that happening so I'm quite up to speed with the difference and what's going on now between back then but obviously there's a lot more digital security now and things like that which wasn't around then but to answer your question it could still easily be done because the weak point in the whole process is the human being because if we're convinced of something so let's say I phoned you and I knew just enough information about you for you to believe that I was calling from your bank then giving maybe 5 minutes with you then I would probably be able to extract more information from you that could help me to then go away and commit a fraud human beings are vulnerable they're so easily led, unappealated we are vulnerable but the thing is as well though so trustworthy even though people say they don't trust anybody everybody's got to be a bit of trust I say I don't trust anybody but I must even for you to be sitting here other people when you're crossing a road you're trusting the driver so everybody's got some sort of trust in them so yeah this is the thing though because you can write so for example let's say that you've got your internet banking you've got all your passwords it'll go on and it'll maybe ask you for 3 digits from that one and then the memorable answer to searching such a question like if you know what you're going to be asked then all you need to do is find out enough about that person for you to be able to answer that question it's not always going to work I would say it's 100% it's going to be harder to do it today but it's not impossible a lot of the phone lines are for like Indian Asian stuff is it not easy because they seem to not really have as much information they have the information but the accents and voices are different as well so I'd imagine it would be easier to manage table to fraud have fraud with all these different off-shores and different instead of British country so do you know what actually I need to show you this but I forgot about this until just now so I got a text message last night was that to show it to the camera? yeah yeah show it to that one so is it that one? no sorry you can see there hopefully it says Halifax UK Alert a new PE attempt was made to a Mr M Camille if this was not done by you please cancel this PE attempt via and there's a link to click there right so if anybody's looking at this don't click that link right but I don't even bank with Halifax but you can see people going and thinking fuck it's the males are the worst you've got a grander Nigeria or I've had one for iTunes but I nearly fell for it was iTunes and I got to hang with it and I said it was a note a payment later something like £4.99 and I went in but then as soon as I started asking for certain details you were like do you know what I mean but there's people out there in a Russia maybe thinking oh no I don't want bad credit or a details are going for you not the accounts right the thing I see if nobody was actually do like if no one was responding to these things they wouldn't do it so there will be people who are I'm not going to say dumb because that's not fair but they are because I've seen a programme I've seen a programme by a woman who was speaking to a man for six months and she gave him over a hundred grand and they'd never met he kept saying that we're in hospital his kid was in hospital but I need money or else he's going to die and he's 30 grand she felt sorry from sent it then he says she needs more operations sent more money it was not on the telly just last year and I'm thinking fucking gullible cunt do you know what I actually think do you know what if you're dumb enough to do that then you can feel sorry but I'm thinking come on man it was only phone calls and text messages you've never ever seen a man and then speaking for six months he ended up running stuff for over a hundred bags do you know what I mean so you think that is really obviously playing in someone's loneliness then into that point which I think is really quite it's very sad but I get where you're coming from as well though you've got to get there's a bit of that you've got to see absolutely one of my friends always says the thing with common sense is in that common because it's the banks and stuff as well you think you're fucking the banks but you're not everything is around you're destroying as well do you know what I mean so when you started making the changes when did you start getting into a merpot we'll touch on there what was it like working for the screws to eventually them chasing you to then you help them you try to balance it out with all the accounts you've fucked to then potentially saving hundreds of accounts then by showing them the things that potentially could happen before basically I've got to be honest with you James I don't really feel particularly bad for the banks mate now I'm not saying that makes it right for me to have done what I did because it's not right but I don't I don't really feel sorry for any financial loss that they've suffered but there's a part of me that does want to I don't know deep inside I feel that I've got to try and make up for it somehow just make it right with the universe kind of thing you know so when I started getting asked to go and do these things and obviously don't go wrong they were paying me to go and do it as well it wasn't all freebies you know and I would go down to most often down to London and it would be like either speaking at a conference or I did a lot of private work for banks as well so basically the understanding was that the work we did was top secret confidential for obvious reasons you know but all that stuff that I've done really has I suppose it's helped me to feel a bit better about it you know but this is a part of me that also says to myself well do you know what I did all this stuff when I was practically when I was a teenager I'm not saying that makes it right but fuck me man I'm supposed to go the whole rest of my life feeling guilty about what I did when I was a teenager it's not going to happen mate I'm not the same person anymore I did some shitty things but my intention was never to hurt any deals that wasn't part of the deal for me so when I found out about things like that guy's mum going to the airport that really cut me inside because as I say my intentions were never to hurt other people as obviously it happened but it wasn't something that I meant to do so doing that work has been interesting don't be wrong, there's times when if it's a conference you get up on the stage and you think the people you know you're being heavy judged I mean like literally exactly but I've kind of gotten over that now with a bit more but yes I'm quite well respected in that scene now as an authority on fraud and I think I would like to say or like to hope that anyone with half a brain can see you're not that person anymore you always get some smarter so make a comment like one guy I went over to France one time when you go to these conferences quite often there's like I'm not a master of ceremony you know the chairman of the conference sort of thing that's up introducing all the guests and stuff and this asshole was like oh you guys put your wallets away cos we've got this and I was just like what a dick you know it was just shite mate where was the easiest place in the world to fuck over probably the UK was that I mean the thing is like most of what I was doing was done here in the UK I mean don't be wrong I travelled a lot but in terms of actually getting people's information and details and things most of that was done here very little of that was done overseas what I would do is do a bit of work here and you know sometimes you'd be on the phone for I don't know maybe 8 hours just phone in different hotels and try to speak to people and get their details of them you know but just always sitting ready with a notepad and I would say that about 80% of the time I got through to somebody do you ever miss that life sometimes but not like I've got to be a damaged cause but I'm talking about the travelling the tales, the birds, the champagne you know what I mean it's a it's not living like a king but you know what I mean the external stuff is but if you were to take away weren't hurting anybody of course you would miss that you would think it would work it but I think the thing is as well for me I feel as though what's important to me has changed you know what I mean like it used to be it was all about material things and don't mind all me I like nice stuff you know I probably always will but it's not I think the things that make me happy in life now are not as much of that as what it would have been before I think the things that are more important to me now like spending time with my family and my friends and having good experiences as opposed to going out and spunking 10 grand in clays you know what I mean it's not it's not the same thing but I I would be lying if I said that there wasn't a part of me that misses those experiences if I could take away all the shite things that happened and separate the two then obviously I would do it again but it's not you know so what are you doing with your life then now so well I work in sales now so I don't know how that happens no it's not I work in sales I've got my own wee business so I provide sales consultancy that's my day to day job so quite boring to be honest with you it's good and the money's decent you get the sales the money's good sort of thing so that's my main job and I work I've got like a wee music studio not too far from here which I'd go pay a monthly rent in that place and I'd go in and sit and write music and stuff so up until the whole lockdown thing happened I was you know DJing quite regularly but I was just more really trying to get into making my own music and stuff so that's something I've been doing for about seven or eight years now and I feel finally that the music's getting somewhere where it's it's no bad you know so that's how I've got that place and over the lockdown I spent quite a lot of time in there just trying to hone my skills so that was like a hobby it's kind of turning into a profession now well when I came out of the jail I had some good fortune there was a lot of you know looking back do you ever find that sometimes you don't realise how one experience or one thing that's happened will shape the rest of your days sort of thing you know you don't realise it at the time I've done in the past to shape me to what I'm doing now if I'd have done all that shit I wouldn't be sitting here well neither would I there's always positives to take out the bad shit and always positives to take out the good shit I think sometimes what I've noticed in my life and I'm sure you're probably the same I would say probably most people are the same is that a lot of the time these things happen and you don't realise them for what they are at the time it's not until you look back later and you say right you know what if that hadn't happened I wouldn't have met this person or I wouldn't have had that job or I wouldn't have you know whatever it is it's a bit of jail if you know the book got written one of my dad's friends introduced me to some guys who were DJing at an open dex night in the town in Glasgow so I got in about that got involved with that many many parties many DJ nights had a fucking great time doing that just really I've always loved music you know like one of the things whenever I was travelling whatever hotel I stayed at when a book made the reservation I was asking to make sure there was a CD player in the room and this CD wallet it went everywhere with me and my mum has told me that she chucked it out recently I was absolutely fucking raging when I was like mum she didn't know but anyway so that was always with me so I've always had a love of music and that was how when I came back to Glasgow and the whole DJ thing happened it just I think if I hadn't found that to put my energies into I think there was the chances of me going back to what I did previously would have been a lot higher so that was like a getaway keep you busy and keep you in a straight and narrow and not only that I met some really cool people you know and the thing was because I no longer had this persona to keep up you know I started to make real lasting friendships with people which had been something that I had never really had that in my life ever you know struggle to keep a relationship friendship absolutely I mean my best mate and his wife you know like so I met him in 2005 and I was DJing at night and my mother my two best mates they were pals first and then I met the two of them and we all became pals you know but I'm still really good friends with them they're great boys you know and you know I reckon we'll probably be friends forever you know but it's just like that's the thing that changed was because I was no longer having to pretend to be something I wasn't it's tiring it is mate it's a very paranoid lifestyle as well you know you're always trying to remember and keep up with your own lies that you've told and what did you tell that person and all that kind of shit you know I was the gambler that was my main addiction I've had a few addictions but gambling's one then you think about the things you've done to get money to feed your addiction, to feed your habit and the lies you do to cover everything up and you're just tired that's where you get angry I was angry all the time because I knew deep inside you know what you're doing is wrong even when you're doing what you're doing it's wrong but you just become very selfish egotistic that you think it's okay you create it in your mind that what you're doing is fine you tell yourself all these little stories to make it right to you so how far do you think you'll go with a DJing then is that a passion to maybe travel the world with that and take it in new heights that would obviously be the dream goal to make that happen it's fucking great business if you can get the ball rolling with that if you can do it you know we were talking about your podcast and how far that's came and stuff like that I've got to say like in terms of what my equivalent of that would be because it's the one thing that I know I can do and I'm not saying I'm pure amazing just yet but I'm getting there you've got to believe it I believe I can be there is what I'm saying to you I know I'm not there yet but also know there's a journey you have to go through to get there I'm kind of hoping that somebody will see something or they'll hear something and it'll just be like right we want that tune which social media and stuff are people to tune in and see your music maybe I have a couple of different I've got a Facebook page for my music which is Facebook Elliot Castro it's a fucking great name great name, great fraudster's name I used to hate my name when I was younger as well like fucking really didn't like it at all but see now I kinda like it because I thought that must be a dummy name you asked me earlier was it my real name just seems like a fraudster's name just Elliot Castro seems like a name you would make up and put in a fake passport but all your social media stuff so I've got my Facebook I've got a SoundCloud as well which again is soundcloud.com Elliot Castro and I've got Instagram as well which is Elliot Castro with four O's at the end I was raging somebody took my name have you not got a YouTuber running I've not at the moment not see if you're a DJ and get your YouTuber running get your videos out of your DJ and your tunes in that it's just widening your audience so right now I'm thinking about every avenue and YouTube is a great platform it's the biggest platform I believe in the world just now it's the second biggest but it's mega for you to get your music out there to take it in your heist to take as we spoke earlier about your social media stuff YouTube is a great platform if you get a song that booms then people go who is this guy it just opens other doors so getting through it in your life then what would you say how would I describe it just now and the memories and what you've went through have you learnt a lot from it I've learnt a lot the thing is in a way I've got to be grateful for some of the experiences that I had I came about through dishonesty but I've been so lucky I've done some things that most people will probably never get the chance to do just things like staying in all these hotel suites travelling in Concord all those class limousines all that sort of thing but I think the other thing that's come out of it really these things are nice but they're they're only part of life really I've got to the point now where I realise that all the stuff I've done when I was younger it's up to me whether or not whether but how I let that affect me it's obviously caused a lot of pain and hurt to some people and that's the part I feel bad about but obviously looking at it from my own perspective as well I've had to let go really cos there was a time where it was just how I saw myself was that person that did all those things and now I don't see myself like that anymore again the past is a past we can't live there and I remember watching the film Catch Me If You Can Leonardo DiCaprio and he was kidnapped he was a pilot and a judge but again he eventually got caught I don't know if that was a true story he ended up with a corpus I think he got life and they brought his sentence down it's not a glamorous life if you ain't working through just being true to you and honest because if it's not then it ain't real and it will get took away no matter if it's fraud, drugs or whatever you're doing it's wrong it will get fucking took away from you but for coming on today brother especially sitting with somebody that's just a stone's throw away the south side it's a newsland traveller up down the UK but this one's a nice easy one for you but would you like to finish it on anything earlier? no thanks very much for having me mate it's been a pleasure to meet you I know a bit more about your story now as well you know I appreciate when you got in touch I was quite honoured should I say you know so thanks for having us on it's very fascinating I genuinely wish you all the best for the future mate keep me DJing up and all the best brother like wise cheers