 All right, guess we're streamed been a while back from packs. So you start streaming you're not gonna record this I'm gonna get paid enough. I'm hungry pulling up the chat Hopefully zero people. Yeah, dream looks good zero people. Excellent. All right You guys got an opening bit. Hmm. I got a couple opening bits bunch of any bits It's Monday April 16th 2018. I'm rim. I'm sky and this is geek nights tonight We are talking about destroying data So I had a co-worker who's in town from London this week and I got to tell him that he basically got to experience the entirety of New York Spring okay, because It feels like this has only been happening in the last three-ish years But I feel like every year It's just like winter and then suddenly it's 80 degrees and then it goes like a little bit and then it's just summer Well, everyone talks about climate change, right? Oh, it's get the you know The average temperature of the world is getting warmer, right? Well, that's not been my experience My experience is simply that we did the start and end of the seasons has been shifted later Right, so it's not just that the summer start selves are more variable starts later And it goes longer and then winter starts later and goes longer. So really just the season moved They got pushed ahead in the year. They don't line up with the months in the same way But it's not just that it is more extreme the changes are more extreme on a day-to-day basis The point is is that it's cold and Even though other people say climate change is bad I feel like I want to burn more coal until it's you know, 80 degrees every day All right, look it's black the 90s called they want their stand-up routine back. I'm just saying I want it's cold I'm not happy, but I can say that because I ski so I'd like the Nuances of weather like I burn coal until no one can ski anymore Actually save lives even though the the the bad weather will kill some people I think the bad weather already kills more people than skiing ever has People will not be able to ski and will thus be saved Plus we can ski indoors. They're skiing in Dubai. That's safer than skiing on a mountain Probably not because there's no trees and rocks and indoor skiing Yeah But indoor skiing is pretty much only people who don't know how to ski which is the primary source of ski injury People who don't know how to ski skiing but So it got crazy hot, but oh, yeah, so I was getting in my ski. It wasn't crazy hot It was slightly chilly relative slightly chilly. It was 79 degrees slightly chill I think you've just turned into an old man. I think you're permanently there You're your old man thermo when you're what are you gonna do when you're 90? It has to be like 110 or you're freezing putting on a sweater All the people who are currently in Florida who are no good will be dead because I'm younger than them I can move to Florida and perfectly fine But Florida will no all the Florida man will be dead by then if I fly out of Florida will suddenly be a good place If I fly out west or go way north I can just ski it doesn't really matter But in terms of like upstate New York, Vermont, New Hampshire skiing The difference of even a couple degrees a month like a month and a half or so in either direction drastically changes everything and I can definitely say that the last three years have been Very difficult ski seasons because we're just over that threshold for at least like upstate New York and edging into parts of New Hampshire and Vermont I don't give a shit is good for me. Yeah for now till New York floods and flooded today. Yeah, I was fine I'm on the third floor The funniest thing about that is that I got the alert and of course my phone doesn't make noise because I'm an adult but pretty much I'm on this floor with like thousand plus other people so all morning Every like five minutes someone's phone would make that D Emergency alert sound and then you get this scattered delay is one by one. Everyone's phone makes the noise Mm-hmm. I think I'm the only person on earth It just keeps their phone always in vibrate mode no matter what when there's a another when there's a real Emergency that actually warrants the use of that system Then what's gonna happen? It'll vibrate and I'll know because I knew anyway I'm at on your floor of a thousand people it'll go The same thing and then everyone looks at their phone and then what and then they do whatever Whatever the thing says so far all the things said was parts of Queens. They don't care about flooded Yo, stay off the stay off the highways on the edges of Manhattan. Yeah, what's it gonna say when I live in Manhattan surrounded by fire. I Feel like at that point I'm already on my bike with the rabbits in a backpack like making my way out of town You're not Depends on how high that firewall is the Stan Island bridge is pretty high the Verzan and arrows You're on Manhattan and you're inside the fire ring Yeah, how tall is the fire ring? Is it over the Queensboro bridge because if it's not I could walk over the top of the Queensboro bridge the little path there You get cooked Depends depends on how hot this fire is Me nice grill Look at some rim egg and cheese or I'll walk through the East River tunnel Fire's not in there and outside. That's a good idea. Yeah, I got plans for everything So yeah, the news Scott has a pretty good news. What's wrong with my news? Yeah, so we talk about a lot about Internet of things and how you know, there's a lot of terms going on these days like cloud and Internet of things Yep We also about cloud actually just means someone else's computer if you ever see an article with the user the word cloud a lot replace every instance of cloud with Someone else's computer and it will make perfect sense. That's all cloud is right Internet of things simply means Thing that doesn't look like a computer that is a computer Yep For example, if you have one of those refrigerators with a screen on it or whatever guess what that refrigerator is a computer and If it happens to connect to the internet There's a lot of computers that don't connect to the internet, right? Like your car is a computer or like the computer in mission impossible one, right? Is a computer doesn't connect to the internet But if you have a computer in a thing that normally doesn't look like a computer But it connects to the internet now you have internet of things right computers hidden in places You didn't know usually gets a little more nuanced and that almost I'd say 99 of the time people specifically mean something that does a physical thing in the real world like Tracks the food in your fridge or it lets you turn off a light You know it's like a smart TV is internet of things. Yeah, it's it's a computer That's your TV now has a computer attached to it hidden inside because as a technology professional what internet of things means to me is That thing does not get updates Right, it's basically device right and this is the main problem with them is you have basically full-on computers They got cpus they got ram they connected to your wi-fi probably really as long as you have a cpu ram in a network card That's enough. Yeah, that's to do damage and a power source That's enough to do damage Yep any cpu with ram and a network card can now do evil it can send spam emails It can attempt to hack other computers It could turn your light switch on and off again so rapidly that it literally starts a fire in your house It could try to send ssh, you know Connections it can do anything that a cpu can do which is all the things Well, if you do anything that can be accomplished by some combination of adding Ones and zeros together right so like those fancy thermostats people have Or uh, what else? Oh the security those malware mail me one bitcoin or the temperature was up by one degree per hour The garage door openers with wi-fi mail me one bitcoin or I break your car Right all these sorts of devices that have an internet connection to cpu and ram Hidden in them Are the computers that are not being properly taken care of the people who have them don't recognize them as computers And if you connect them to the internet somebody can hijack them connect to them use them in ways They weren't intended to be used You know your your garage you're literally not even a joke your garage door opener could be made to like send spams or Host child porn on its meager storage or who knows what yep mind bitcoins So there's a concept that's a little deeper than a firewall because a firewall is just some rules around the network traffic But the computer on the other side is still connected to the network Like it's still people are connecting to it effectively directly to do stuff unless you have a fancy like layer seven firewall, but The air gap is an important concept in it security if something is so important that like it's serious Like capital s serious usually those are systems that are not connected to the internet At all. Yep. There is no path. There is no ip Anywhere that will get between that computer and the internet. Yep like in our it we had this I took a computer security class and You nothing in that lab in that room It has there's a bunch of racks and a whole bunch of tables with like patches on them And all these desktops in there in that room at all the at all the desks Yep, but there was no internet connection in that room if we wanted to bring software into the room We had to go outside with a usb stick load it up Bring it in usb stick son. I used a zip disk for that I used usb sticks because it was It was 2004 whatever it was. Yeah, I was I took that the the equivalent class in 2000 Yeah The point is we had to bring software from the outside, right? Yeah, it's like the mission impossible computer or say the computer that A lot of times you just bring laptops in and they're already loaded and but like the computer that launches nukes Even if you have the best internet security and firewalls on earth It's probably safer to just not actually have a connection to it. Anyway, so, you know, usually practically speaking This usually comes up in casual conversation because I can tell people Hey, you shouldn't be getting those, you know boxes, you know connected to your tv You should be getting an htpc that you can update and has real software You should not be getting if you have a smart tv Don't connect it to the internet and don't use any of the smart features get an htpc, right? This is the usual conversation we have because i'm talking about the insecurity of internet of things stuff, right? Because those, you know, that's not getting software updates. You don't know what the hell software is on there You've connected it to your network. You're putting everything at risk connecting some strange computer to your network But here we go. We have a real story. This really happened. It's not sci-fi. It's not some example It is an example. It's a real example. This thing actually fucking happened Some casino Had in the fish tank that was at the front of the casino as a decoration because you know, casino's got fancy decoration Yep a internet controlled thermometer thermostat thing to control and monitor the temperature in the fish tank But this wasn't just a thermometer like mercury and a stick. It was a computer with an internet connection that connected with wi-fi Yep, right You just don't think of it as a computer. You just you know, you think of it as a fucking thermometer So of course somebody hijacked that and now that's a computer that was on the casino's computer network And they went in through that very insecure thermostat Connected to the casino's other computers that had real things Now I didn't look up the details of this particular Thermostat, but generally the reason why these internet of things things are so dangerous in even these contexts Is that you connect it to your internal network? But it's not directly accessible from the outside kind of like with skype back in the day These these internet of things devices have to work when it is involved So they are good at nat busting and getting out to the internet to connect to some server somewhere to do their biz A lot of them are like these, you know, like for example the nas I have, you know, the the synology Yep It's like it connects to like this Synology stuff that's way out on the real internet like to help you if you don't know how to do land stuff in your house Yeah, that shit's all turned off on mine. Yeah, exactly. It's like you can go to fine.synology.com and then it helps you That thing that's on the real internet helps you find something on your land. It's like no no no land only We're not having my nas that's on my local network talk to anything outside So people will install these internet of things things on an internal secure network Like web like some little set of a webcam That's the worst security webcam And then in order to see what the webcam sees you go to a website That's on the public internet and now everyone can see everything that's going on here Yep And even didn't open your firewall as opposed to connecting directly to it from you know, wherever you are Yep So if anything on that server that web thing that's letting this webcam do its thing is compromised at all You can get into the webcam and do whatever on the internal network So someone used this thermometer They hijacked at that and then now they're on that they had a connection They were able to browse the casino's internal computer network and they found a database that was not so secure And that database had all the info about all the high rollers in the casinos. Yeah, okay This is fun stuff now. This is not the crazier exploits that people are talking about about using To get at completely air gap systems meaning like nothing to do with it now But that's a similar but more interesting story There are ways, you know, depending on what's going on you can try to hack into systems that aren't connected to the internet But it's extremely difficult. The point is There are things that are computers you need to be able to recognize what is and what is not a computer And in the future everything is a computer If something is a computer Do not put it on your network unless you have somehow separated it or something and make sure you you know They don't let it connect the internet if it doesn't have to you can get one of those internet Connectable garage door openers and never connected to the internet and just open your and close your garage door without any wi-fi Yep, or if you're going to use its internet stuff at least put it on a segregated wi-fi network That doesn't have any access to the rest of your network Yeah, and then it's like, okay Well, here's this thing on its own this smart tv it might start sending spam It connects to the internet and does whatever the worst it can do is use my bandwidth It can't hurt anything any of my other real computers or anything It's all on its own It might as well have its own private internet connection that it shares with nothing else And if it becomes horrible and uses my bandwidth then i'll disconnect it and I can take advantage of its features in the meantime So in some other news, but ideally just don't connect to the internet in the first place. You want that problem? Yep So in some other news, I just saw this story. I remember seeing some rumblings about this and it's kind of interesting I'm gonna summarize because the details are pretty technical and they rely on some understanding of the Plain old television set like the plain old television the plain old telephony networks like old phones Pots yeah pots So basically the way phones like phone calls work in the us is actually very well defined and modern internet-based telephony Largely fakes a lot of that stuff or translates between that stuff So like for example in the old days if you picked up a phone and by the old days I mean like the 90s And you called someone on the phone like you picked up a landline If you've ever seen one of those and you had rotary dialed something I had a rotary dial when I was a kid Uh, we're talking 90s. All right. You had a 50s is key modem and you do dialed someone at yep at right so The ringing sound you hear in the phone Actually means like that is a part of the sla of the phone network that the destination phone is ringing I thought the destination phone was actually making those noises and sending them over the phone line to you Uh I'm pretty sure that if you called different places you heard different rings based on what phone they had pretty sure That wasn't actually true in the 90s But i'm not actually that familiar with the previous iterations of the phone system Like when the person picks up the phone they start talking and you hear and their voice gets sent over the line But before then the phone that has now received a call is and ringing out loud is also sending ringing noises What's crazy is my freshman year. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought my freshman year at RIT I actually took a whole class on this stuff and I mostly forgot it all because it's literally irrelevant to the modern world Yeah, unless you're setting up an estrus server, which you're not But like the sound that a phone makes when you try to call someone in the phone is busy Like that d d d like all those things are very well defined and there's rules about them and more importantly There's laws about them. Yep So this story Is fascinating and i'm only going to skim the details because partly there's a broader story I want to talk about the rough story here is that t-mobile was caught Faking the ring sounds that come back. Why would you want to fake the ring sound? Because the old phone network The hyper reliable phone network with all those mechanical relays and everything It's really expensive to run and really really really expensive to run In shit-ass rural burg like day middle of nowhere, arizona Right, but it's still there. You just you connect someone to it. What's the big deal to a degree? But there's a lot of things going on on the mobile doesn't have to pay for it Whoever's whoever's in that area pays so part of the reason that worked is there was a limited number of phone companies And the infrastructure is relatively simple and they all sort of follow the same rules But in the modern world of the internet, there's a lot of ways to connect calls Most people are using cell phones exclusively And it might just be that a cell phone trying to make a call Going through all these different networks that are run by all these different private companies Might time out or otherwise not make it to some shit-ass rural phone somewhere that still has some old physical infrastructure So rather than I don't like every time I've called the landline it works. Uh I'm trying to think of the last time I called the landline that wasn't like an 800 number Do you live in a farm in the sticks and you have a telephone? Let us know We'll try to call you. We will both try to call you First come first serve Like you need to be in the way sticks way Yeah, and you have a landline post in the forum. We'll we'll decide if your sticks enough Yeah, but basically there's a bunch of things going on because a lot of the phone networks in rural areas Are selling Numbers in those areas to companies that then provide telephony services to other areas because it's way cheaper to connect Or the the infrastructure those phone numbers run on is subsidized by old federal nonsense So that's why you can go to all these services and pay like 20 bucks a month And get as many 888 numbers as you want and just like route calls everywhere All right But what this means is this is a lot of the sla of the phone network is starting to fail You still haven't explained why team mobile would fake the ringing noise Why does team mobile give a shit because team mobile tries to connect to some Destination all right, so I have team mobile phone And i'm in new york city with my team mobile smartphone So i'm my team mobile iphone and i call the person who lives in the sticks is listening to this show Why does team mobile give a shit just connect the call? So yeah, why would you fake the ringing noise? So they're trying to connect the call, but The call the the circuit might not actually be open to that destination For a significant amount of time because of all these complications in the world. What is team mobile care? Just let me wait So you call you always i'm used to that where you call and like there's a silent noise and you go Huh, why isn't it ringing and then eventually it rings that happens? Yeah, so the it might have been too long Or they didn't want to worry about it It was much easier to just always start playing a ringtone back at whoever called Well separately you're trying to connect Okay, why would you do that? Why indeed i'm not team mobile. I can't say let the person just let the person wait Well one if I don't understand the benefit to team mobile So one if I try to call anyone and I don't hear a ring like right away. I just hang up I just give up immediately. Why does team mobile should like that? Uh, yeah, why don't I send the benefit to team mobile of playing the ringing noise? I don't know. I'm not team mobile. I don't know why they went down this road Well, that's key to understanding the story because that's the thing they did that was supposedly bad But I don't know why what benefit they get from doing it Partly I think it was just to simplify their own infrastructure by not having to track all the way to the end destination If you made it there and when that phone actually started ringing before you come all the way back And play a specific SLA based ring tone on the other side I feel like that's how just the phone system would work by default and you have to do extra work to make it work this other way No, it's not how yeah, it's that's not how it works anymore It's way more complicated than it used to be and frankly that SLA is probably fundamentally obsolete But it's still regulated It's still part of the FCC rules the rules about how phones work are very strict And the meta point I want to make is that I think the reason it took so long For anyone to even notice or do anything about this Is that most people your cell phones don't give a fucking rarely if ever make phone calls Yes, and when they do they're almost always calling someone else who's also on a cell phone Yes So the reason why this issue made it as long as it did is partly that people like us don't call people And if we do call people I use modern technology like the internet and I don't try to call a landline I don't think in the sticks. I don't think I've tried to call a landline In a decade. I've called my mom's phone, which is my mom doesn't have a landline My mom does no no relative of mine has a landline. So even though it is a landline I think it is provided by the cable company So I think technically it's like a void phone that just has the phone number The of the former landline that was in the house And I think it might even use The landline in the house like it connects to it, but I think I mean I could get a landline I think that basically it's like it's like an old it's like an old school phone with an old school landline wire But then when you get outside to where the connection is actually It's can that you know that old it's cooking up to some sort of void Well, yeah, I mean I got an rj 11. I could just use and it plugs into my files box. Yeah, it's something like that Right. Yeah, I think that's what it is where it's it's a landline, but it's not really So this is a kind of complicated story and you can read the article if you're really interested in the details But basically T-mobile is getting fined a pittance for this and this is the other meta story The FCC Because American politics is completely fucked right now. The FCC is just basically the worst Yeah, but they're even worse now Because they're controlled by the republican party, which is the bad party in the u.s So the democrats actually wanted to take much more aggressive action to deal with the fundamental problem of phone companies are ignoring most of america At least land wise. Yeah, and kind of like the post office We need to provide basic connectivity services to everywhere people live regardless of how economically viable I mean, FCC or not democrat or republican or not show me a time Where a company was actually fined and a major company was fined and punished an actual significant amount like they should be I can only think of like a few handful like so completely breaking up at&t Yeah, these things happened right in the 80s There's not a lot of them right there's not a lot of times when companies have actually been punished a proportionate amount but in this case in particular uh The democrats because basically the democrats are the minority on this because the republicans are in power So they get the majority meaning they can literally do whatever they want ignoring the democrats So they basically did this like minimum fine and are just sort of ignoring the issue Yeah, I don't even understand the point of having the two opposing people there It's just so they can say what they because as the democrat it's like it's basically just so you can Let everyone know that it's bullshit And I guess occasionally when you agree and you vote it's just symbolic, right? It's sort of like well You can see well, we disagree. No, no, no all voted. Yes. So clearly this is good So this is a pretty recent phenomenon in all these committees where previously There would more often than you would expect be some sort of compromise or they'd argue behind closed doors And then they just present like they'd vote unanimously or close to unanimity I'm pretty sure I remember when they were doing all this stuff during the obama times It was usually three two all the time also It depends I don't it's gotten to the point that it is the rule as opposed to the exception in the last year But basically the democrat made a good point that this affected Billions of telephone calls to rural areas over the last several years and is a quote massively deceptive and harmful violation And the FCC will net will not even look at changing these rules Will not even look at updating like Basic connectivity service. I mean, I would argue that broadband connectivity to these rural areas should be a right Way more important than plain old telephone nonsense Well, I mean, yeah, I mean also if I was in charge of the world Anytime anyone got fined for anything the fine would always be Proportional to their means and significance. So if like you're a poor person and you oh the iron monkey strategy Yeah, if you're a poor person and you do some crime like littering I'd be like one dollar fine and they'd be like, no Like god damn it. I can't they'd be pissed off. That's like a whole it's a big deal, right? And it bill gates litters Fucking hundred million dollar fine. Go fuck yourself bill gates Same littering, but it has to be an amount where he like he'll be like, ah shit, right? So 40 million dollars t-mobile doesn't even give a shit, right? If you find any company ever it has to be enough to make their stock go down and people sell off Well, hey, you know what I like to say that's the only because that's the only way the ceo will be hurt Right is that the stock has to go down significantly. So what like what's t-mobile's like total worth like some billions God, here's here's my 25 percent of your word. Here's one minimum This is probably the first time where I'm gonna go beyond you. So you're gonna find them even harder So I generally Ideologically disagree with the death penalty for basic for criminal law. Yeah Uh, uh, I don't want to get into the details of that argument that discussion death penalty for a company sure But I mean, no, but I'm saying I don't think you give t-mobile the death penalty if it is Oh, no, but I'm saying if there is a death penalty For humans irrespective of whether or not that is uh, the right thing to have if it exists And corporations are ostensibly treated like humans for many purposes Then there should also be a death penalty for corporations Yeah, but this isn't this isn't bad enough to warrant the death penalty for t-mobile But there are many corporations for example, I don't know any company that like poisons the river It's like, yeah, I think not only should you give the death penalty for all the executives should go to real jail But the other sort of a more subtle point to think about is that whenever you're building new things It is important that the people who are building the new thing at least someone building the new thing Understands what the old thing they're replacing did and why it did what I what it did because I don't know. It's hard to say. I also care It is very easy to believe That having the ringtone just play through a cell phone was just some engineers saying well that makes sense And not thinking about this like physical relay connected to some copper in oklahoma You're saying it's like an open dns thing where the people who may go open dns Don't care how dns is supposed to work. Yeah, and they don't send you an nx for yeah Yeah, yeah other bullshit. I wonder if the open dns people are still mad at us for saying that they Are naive or I don't know. Open dns is like a big thing now, but I know well partly because partly because The ship of well-formed dns sailed and we lost that fight a long time ago No, I'm actually everyone else provides well-formed dns Yeah, well, so the t the tld's expansion has started to pollute the core idea of a tree But anyway, I digress That was long enough for the news So we had like 16 people watching we got 12 still on you're supposed to have zero people. What happened? We started out you said zero now. We got one more just joined again You said zero right when I started the show it started out so good. Look and now there's people here's the graph You said zero Two seconds later. There's five people listening to this you'd be better off go and replace some candy box on your ipad Then listen to this So go do that. Yeah All right, let's see you'd be better off Walk it around outside wherever you live Unless it's cold then listen to this But anyway things of the day so The nintendo switch is very important because this is the first mainstream console I have bought myself to play games on since the 3ds And before that was the ds And before that was scott and I shared that game a cube that scott bought and before that it was the snes like I I was very Disengaged from consoles for a long time. The switch is amazing. However, this video is living proof that even a great console Pails in comparison to the same experience on a pc when nerds can mod it and mess with it I mean pub g the latest and greatest craze is a mod just like counter strike was Yep And you can't mod anything on switch, right? Imagine if you could mod zelda for reals What kind of all these like imagine what games would emerge? I mean the thing I'm watching right here. That would be the next pub g which is not only a mod mash up of breath of the wild with Uh, I think the genre look at the randomizers people make because they can mod, you know the snes games But you can't mod switch games But I think the genre of what is mashed up here is called weird shit rims into I mean one day they're gonna have you know like in the way Decade or so we're we are gonna have mods of uh Switch zelda and they're gonna do a randomizer. Oh, yeah, so breath of the wild randomizer. Oh my god I await the day where I can watch a breath of the wild where the very important item is just in some random ass It's like, oh that corax seed actually that was the key item. That was ganon. Ganon is just hiding there. Oh try force Yep, anyway So yeah, but also it's worth noting that the song on this thing of the day Might be one of my favorite songs Okay Well, let me talk to you about another song on the wu tang album return to the 36th chamber sung by the deceased old dirty bastard Known as shimmy shimmy. Yeah Here is an excellent perhaps better than the original rendition of this song by one of my favorite people mumra The everliving Who is unlike unlike old dirty bastard Is everliving this is just two and also Is also and like old dirty bastard is old dirty and a bastard I uh, I also legit like this Rendition of this song and it gives me a feel. I don't think you know the original rendition of this song I don't know wu tang that well like okay. Can you name more than one wu tang member that I already named? Nope Okay, just so we put that on the record in terms of rims music in that in that That area of music like things I enjoy. I knew the wu tang clan existed. All right, and when someone has pointed out That's a wu tang song. I've usually thought uh, that's a pretty good song. Yeah, that's a reason they famous Yeah, it's about as far as they got I do want to hear the uh, the album that we don't know we can't hear yet Well, have you listened to the echo? Why are you so you're so interested in listening to this unobtainable wu tang album Do you realize there are wu tang albums? You could already listen to If you have not done if you look at my sonos history I was listening to about your wu tang clan a couple weeks ago. I just don't know names of songs off the top of my head You don't know shimmy shimmy. Uh Be classic shimmy shimmy. Uh In the meta moment the book club book is The odyssey by homa. I'm not working next week. So I'll probably be going on An odyssey so I've gone on quite an odyssey already and also it's shorter than I thought I just stopped reading it So you got to odysseus, right? Uh, are you still a telemicus? I just got to odysseus. Okay. He's on the island He's on the island. I think he's he's building a raft and making his move. Okay. So hermes came was like, yo You got to let this guy go stop, uh Stop having amazing goddess sex with him every single night I don't know why she doesn't have amazing guy to sex with like hermes Who's a god right there? I love my one of my favorite And he would and hermes wouldn't say no in the odyssey is when hermes is like god damn it Cause Zeus is like hermes go deal with this. He's like, uh, and then he goes and even he is like, whoa this island Whoa, he literally goes from olympus to this island because olympus. I mean olympus isn't that great That's the thing right olympus is not like fucking paradise. It's the top of a mountain. It's fucking cold Yeah, but it's still opulent and full of splendor But I mean, it's it's better than man meet world or Hades, but it's not it's not as good as fucking You know, whatever the name of that island is But yeah, so we'll uh, this is the book club. You should read it. It's amazing. Emily Wilson did a fantastic job Translating this in a way to where reading it feels like just reading a story And enjoying it for what it is without having to parse through somewhat archaic language Yeah, no, they didn't write it, you know, a lot of people they intentionally write in old timey ways And she pointed out like, you know, these people make an english translation and they write it with like ye old shopee talk Yeah, ye old shopee talk isn't any closer Right. Fake, fake, fake old english is only like a couple hundred, you know, even if that's how they spoke Uh, which they didn't It that would only be like 200 years ago Whereas Homer Odyssey is bc. You're not it's like It predates the greek dark age It predates the idea of english It predates Greece So this is some like there's no point. There is no point in using old-fashioned sounding language Right. It's not that much closer Yeah, at least shakespeare is a product of its time. Yeah, shakespeare That's is how shakespeare, you know wrote plays that might not be how they talked, but that's how they wrote plays Those are the actual words that shakespeare wrote shakespeare was a person most likely, we know So if you're listening to this we know more about shakespeare We know about homer because you saw us at packs east because somehow Our morning panel and you're confused that we haven't even mentioned games yet filled the room Which it did eventually fill the room. They turned people away Uh, they filled up some empty seats. Uh, I saw people leaving. They were smart Yeah, but there are also a ton of people standing like if you listen to the stream not smart They should learn from the people who left But if you wanted that list of games you saw us and now you don't wonder why we're talking about linux and all this nonsense Well, guess what gig nights is four nights mondays our technology and linux and stuff You probably don't care about tuesdays is where you're going to listen and not not tomorrow tuesday You're going to have to wait a whole week and maybe even not even then because i'm not working Who knows if i'll be in the mood to make a podcast. Yep. We're on a minor hate is but Wall gig nights is coming in and out while we're sort of getting our shit together because scott and i have both made uh significant life changes recently and there's a lot we got to deal with but We are doubling down on the youtube content because once we do pre-production scott and i can go our separate ways and crank it out Yeah, thanks to my new computer I was able to make a video with much greater ease than usual So we have and my video skills increase slightly each time i make a video. You know what would really help you out If you had a knob, I don't need the knob the knob is not necessary You really underestimate the power of this knob I did not at any point feel that I had the need for a knob You never want to just move something one frame before you did your thing to it Uh, no I don't even use my keyboard just a mouse and knob and I can do almost everything. It's amazing I used I learned the keyboard shortcuts. Yeah, my keyboard shortcut this does more than I got a shuttle And I got a well anyway. I have a mouse wheel on the mouse Yeah mouse wheel and I have left and right arrows not enough if I hold shift and push the left and right arrows It goes even faster. Yeah, and then I have markers so I can just push up and down and go Exactly, I need to go turn this shuttle and the speed just varies in an analog fashion I can just push the up and down or to go to exact spot. I need to go Uh, your timeline is a much simpler. You want me to send you what what a Geek Nights for the Nutana project looks like The like nested sequence upon nested sequence and templates everywhere. I think I'm good But anyway, so our video judging and reviewing all of the anime that's coming out In the spring Spring season that has already begun. We already reviewed it all and the video is on youtube. We previewed it. Oh, we reviewed it Sure, we're rarely wrong Even though we don't it seems like we don't know how all that persona nonsense is linked together Now I do But I don't think the persona fans even really understand No, they explained it to me that it's like if they're correct, uh, I'm trusting them Right that it's sort of like final fantasy where it's not linked together They just all have the sort of like some similar themes like all the final fantasy of chocobos Final fantasy 10 has nothing to do with final fantasy 6 other than that. They both have chocobos, right or moogles or whatever Right so personas like that Which is actually good news because I was basically avoiding persona completely Because I thought it was all connected But now I realized oh, I could just go to any fucking persona thing I don't have to give a shit and maybe that actually makes me more likely to check one out I watched a let's play like partially of persona 4 like just a little bit of it It looks pretty good. Like I feel like we could enjoy that I mean, I think it's basically just an rpg that looks like an anime, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I feel like we should play yakuza games before we play these sure whatever But the other video that's on youtube is that panel the 40 table to have games you need to play from paxese 2018 In glorious 2k You don't need 4k when it's just i'll stand I only did 1080p because i'm like i'm gonna be shit I didn't know I didn't see my face in 4k. You know why I do 2k I recorded it in 4k's but I put it out into in 1080 i do 2k because I did some zooms Plus none of the other content other than the image of our face was 4k resolution So it would be kind of silly But I did it because when I'm doing the picture in picture like when we're talking the slides down here and when the slides up We're down here It means if someone does have a nice monitor that little area will be like 1080p Or at least 720p depending on how big I well, yeah, because you're cut that content was 1080p to begin with None of the images of anime that I had were 1080p. Yep So it is on youtube and you can watch it and maybe you learn a lesson about if you don't go to a gig night's panel at a con It's probably just gonna be on youtube later That's right. You shouldn't show up and you shouldn't you should basically consume none of our you should tell people Who don't know about our shit to go to the panel so one we don't waste our time talking to people already know Who we are and two that way you can get them to go there and then bell see the same panel And you don't have to tell them all the games Or whatever it is. We talked about in the panel You should just tell them to watch the youtube video I'm fast forward so they can use waste as few time in their life as possible But then they can go play games with that extra time It's a cash 22 because if everyone learns that lesson and no one goes to our panels Then we'll have to do what we're doing for these anime panels because we don't go to anime Counts anymore and record them in our houses, which is way less fun and doesn't get us free badges to conventions I'll just inform We're gonna get to I we're gonna do a point in the future to where No one goes to panels at any convention because they're all on youtube good Except anime cons because you can't put any of that stuff on youtube because the content idea immediately takes it down Yeah, all right Someone said they would donate if we did a special where we livestreamed you trying to edit episode of geek nights together I mean I would just take the mp3 file That take a wave. Yeah turn it into mp3 and just drag it to upload You're not gonna edit you're not gonna do all this I'd go and get the song and I put it at the beginning Yeah, I got scripts to do all that semi automatically. I just get those other song. I put it in the middle I wouldn't do the song at the end. We can livestream you editing a geek nights presents your tana together those take me like four to eight hours to put together all told You just take me a lot longer, but now I got I would just not put in the video of the tana show Yeah, that's not nearly as fun I would just take the recording of us Cut out when I sneezed or whatever How you gonna find it? Do you know how to find a sneeze? I'd watch it. Oh, see that's the thing. I don't watch Okay This is where you get good at editing He just needed to know the moment I sneezed Uh, you can tell by looking at the waveform usually or by or I can use some There's some functions you can use to like find when a sound occurs again I just watch it on fast forward and push the m button whenever there's a thing And the knob let's me do that much easier. Okay. I have different levels of fast forwarding Anyway, I just need the one level of fast forwarding Also, you got to go through the u10 episode and find all the clips that you want Yeah, I'm saying I wouldn't do that part. Yeah, see that's that's the problem That's why you don't need the knob. You're not doing anything complex I don't need to do anything complex. It's not making gag any more views to do something complex I think it is if those early episodes had not had all the u10 eclips. I feel like people wouldn't have watched him I know I wouldn't I do not watch Anything on youtube that is someone talking about some anime unless they're also illustrating things with actual clips from the show I don't watch anything on youtube someone talking about some anime. I do sometimes sometimes all right So destroying data we talked a lot about backing stuff up I don't think we've talked recently about destroying things Well part of it is that in most cases not all cases but most cases I find it morally reprehensible to destroy data I keep I have chat logs of every IM conversation I have ever had Since the icq days Right, I mean if you think every single conversation I've ever had I have the exact conversation when scott and I talked online For the first time right so now a lot of people might think like short term about destroying data Right something like rims chat logs, right and first of all just because you don't destroy the data It doesn't mean you have to distribute the data That's a separate conversation right but you know I data is not on the internet. That's not even on the cloud I always think about you know like library of alexandra. It's like ah what a shame it was right So when you delete a file, you know some you started to write something and then it's no good and you delete the file It's like okay That was probably worthless. You don't want anyone to see it But one day you'll be dead and no imagine an archaeologist Finding my nas and finding on that nas the thousands of garbage pictures I took of like new york city and using that as part of their Research into what new york city was like a thousand years ago Even the most worthless data that you have created could be worth something You know even something that seems completely like just a text file Could be a work of art or historical artifact or who knows what so I'm usually don't want to delete any data But there are some things it is okay to delete for example child porn delete it all please faster the better One could make an argument That not deleting it allows ai's expert systems and law enforcement personnel to use the data from it to find Let us not get off topic. Let us not get off topic Just saying there's a project out there where they ask people to take pictures of hotel rooms they're in So Researchers who have the child porn that like the fbi has gotten when they've arrested people They can try to find the kids and rescue them Point is just saying even there are cases reprehensible data may have a an intrinsic value anyway Deleting data is usually bad, but sometimes well, there's two you do have to delete some data for example There's two there's three different levels of deleting data on one There's do you have data that is local that you are trying to destroy so no one ever gets it versus Do you have data that you don't care about preserving necessarily? Versus did you publish data and you're trying to unpublish it? Well, it's that's not deleting. That's unpublishing true true But anyway, okay So the most basic case of deleting data is my phone is running out of room, right? So obviously Just go to listen to some old episode of one of 100 episodes of geek nights about backing up Back it up somewhere else and delete it from your phone. Now same thing applies on your computer It's like oh no my computer's hard drive is full But I need to save this information put it some buy another hard drive save it somewhere else And then delete it from the place that's full like I keep by pushing the delete key Like I keep every photo I take on my phone goes into light room Basically forever. They're tiny files and they own a google photo forever because they're tiny files I got it backed up in three clouds remember cloud means other person's computer and also my nas and also my computer and whatever Because I might want that data someday the incremental cost to me of keeping that data Approaches zero on a perl. I like to add them all up together actually it adds up to pennies a month Which adds up to dollars which becomes significant But the way I preserve that stuff is using mostly free services. Anyway Anyway So there's that that's normal deleting right you need to you're not actually deleting the data from existence You're just getting it from one place. You're doing it from one place. Okay. So now I've got something I need to actually delete from existence. Why well, I'm selling someone this hard drive And I've backed everything up. I'm not deleting it from existence But I need to make sure that whoever gets this hard drive can't recover any of that data Yep, and that's mostly what we're talking about right now Right and in that case you need a tool that has existed for a long time that is still probably the best tool Called d-band named after the guy who made it Derek Derek's boot and nuke now it boots and it nukes When I was young I knew this was called d-band, but I always assumed that stood for something Fun when you boot it it says right on the screen Derek's boot and nuke. Yep It's not hiding its name somehow So well the first time I actually had to use it was way back. I worked at IBM I didn't know about its RIT and that's when I used it. Yeah at RIT I was I was a co-op and I was working in this department before I got like a Big job there and the thing one of the things I had to do is we had all these servers and they were like, yo Wipe out all these hard drives Following these regulations they pointed me at this like government site of like regulations for destroying data And that's your project spend a few months and like get rid of all this data And I was like, can I just take the hard drives down to a drill pass press and they were like, no We're going to reuse the hard drive somewhere So I did my research and I encountered Derek's boot and nuke And I encountered that it actually did all the things that the regulations said I had to do About overriding the data with random data a certain number of times to make sure there is no feasible chance anyone could get that data back And I did it a lot of this has to do with the way magnetic hard drives work Where even if you like delete files all that does is usually if you have to say a you know Normal file system is delete the pointer to the file in the file system But it's somewhere to actually You know manually control the hard drive and read all the bits all the bits of the file are still there Is just they're not listed in the file system anymore. So they don't show up Right. So, you know, it's like even modern file systems But you know, also if you do try to delete them or overwrite them a magnetic hard drive It's like, well, you know, it's like this sort of zero you could sort of try to figure out Aha, this sector is a zero, but it used to be a one I guess think of it this way. Y'all the the analogy I was about to use How does they work? I was going to talk about crts, but those are also obsolete. Yeah, so It's a similar thing though and that say you have a you know what it's like It's like the aspirin in a couch I sit in a couch for a long time Data is just there and then I get up. There's a there's a really minuscule aspirin there So someone with a very high resolution camera could theoretically take a picture of that and Figure out who's that figure out they could recreate the ass. Yep. So think of it like that now in practice This is I've never actually seen a case actually of anyone actually doing that I read a recent paper Showing that it is actually way less feasible than it used to be because of the density of data on modern magnetic drives Because like back when this was a more feasible attack hard drive had like 500 megabytes on it Now it is I mean I have I have five eight terabyte hard drive sitting up there So also file systems have changed a lot like things have changed so much since the last time I cared about this That I actually have to do a little bit of research if I actually want to wipe out data On a large I mean d-band still works. It's still out there. Yeah, it's still gonna get the job done I have not used it because I haven't actually given anyone I've actually heard recently though that d-band was like bought by a different company and then There's a fork and then the fork is what you should be using because you don't want to pay this company that bought d-band I don't know So I guess think of it this way when you on the high level and the reason I don't go deep again is just that The details are so specific to circumstance nowadays And I don't even know what the story is with different kinds of ssds The point is this is only good for deleting a whole hard drive usually you booting and nuking right? what if say I'm on my computer and I've got you know some files and uh, I committed some crimes But they're good crimes because I'm a I'm a revolutionary person. Yeah, you're Robin Hood. Right. I'm a good person I'll allow it. I'm doing some anti-government work. That's actually but my government's evil And they're gonna come and take my computer and I can't have these files on the computer that they're about to that I know they're coming to take so already you're fucked and my argument is Modern computers modern file systems There's a lot of collateral change and Circumstantial evidence that appears when you do anything on a computer There's time stamps and there's stuff the file system did all over the place It's pretty likely that no matter what you do to delete something that was previously there Someone could at least figure out that you deleted something. Oh, no shit I think that you've you've already like it's already too late if you're doing that kind of thing All the data that is ever involved in that thing should already be in a separate encrypted store somewhere All right, so I've got a separate encrypted usb stick. Yep. Okay deleting the keys to to decrypt it Is the same as deleting the data Yeah, because look at how a modern bitlocker style malware works It doesn't delete your files It encrypts them And if it doesn't if it doesn't give you the key to decrypt it the data is gone There's no way to get it back. It's it might as well be deleted. It's arguably better It's like this you go to someone's house You put you replace the lock on their front door. You can't get in the house Yep, but you can you're out you can change the lock on their front door Or you can actually install another door in front of their front door that has a lock on it Yep, and that lock is 100 unlockable without the key magic lock It's a perfect magic lock And now you eat the key and you threaten to not poop it out Yep, unless uh or dissolve it in acid or something unless they give you money So in the modern era like companies and now no one can ever get in that house the end They have to smash the house Most companies have some sort of data retention policy And like rules for how they'll delete stuff. It seems like a lot of people Either don't pay that much attention to what they've documented Or they don't worry about it that much And I don't know how much of a concern it really is because From what I've read the feasibility if you just delete files And override a hard disk with zeros like do like a dd and just like write zeros over everything on a hard disk I don't know if it's actually feasible for anyone other than a government operator That's well funded to even attempt to get that data back Yeah, and I don't know like an ssd like what really especially if that drive keeps getting used because think of it if you're doing You know a data retention operations at like a corporation What you're doing is getting rid of old customer data probably right? Yep, you're only keeping it for a certain amount of time and then you're clearing it out You know, it's like, okay. We'll keep your track of your I don't know your all your transactions and all the things you bought Only for a year and then we'll get rid of them right something like that So that if anyone bust into our database and there's a leak Which you know, we're of course not going to have a leak because we're not stupid like all the other people had leaks Like ecofacts or whatever, but uh, if there is one, you know Or if say there's an internal actor at the company who's evil and starts poking around the database They'll only get the last year of data and not your full world history Uh, but you know what if you just clear delete those days If you just do like delete everything older than a year Those are the same hard drives in the same server all the new information is going to just start filling in that space over time You're going to be okay. You can just probably I think what it comes down to is as much as this Feels like it should be a very technology focused episode The reality is that unless you work at a company with a policy and some real reason to care It generally doesn't matter because as a consumer Just run something like d-band and then just give sell the hard drive and probably be yeah I mean at that company with the data retention policy, you know a hard drive in the The sand crashes or something right or whatever they use their storage array You take it out you put a new one in and then you make sure that before you put the old one in the garbage You do the d-band equivalent so most of the companies I have talked to about this over the years Prefer physical destruction of those situations. That's perfectly fine as well Drill press through the platters, which theoretically if it's just a drill press through the platters Someone could pull the platters out Well, if it's a magnetic but if you if you take an ssd and put a drill through it Yeah, unless you miss the Persistent storage in there. I think you open it up and you find the right spot and just like shoot it with a gun or something Take you could actually just rip that one chip off and throw the you know But I guess the the it's not a technology question It's a procedures question if you need to delete data You need to do the research and come up with the risk reward like ratios and procedures you could follow And the most important thing about deleting data is having an audit history of when and how you did you deleted the data So that if someone recovers the data in some crazy way in the future You at least have proof that you did what you said you did and that you asserted that it was good enough at the time It's a lot like, you know paper shredding, right? It's like, yeah, if you just buy a paper shredder You know all of his depot or whatever your staples Yep, or amazon and put a piece of paper in there a lot of crazy nuts are like, oh my god It those cut the paper in a certain pattern and and the governments know how to put together got to get a cross shredder And yeah, if if the piece of paper is like the names of your spies in north korea Yeah, maybe you should use a cross shredder and then burn it But if it's my bank account statement, the regular shredder I got from amazon for the regular shredder And the raw chicken that it's in the garbage with is probably sufficient. My shredder has its own trash bin It's like its own thing. It doesn't mix with the with the oh, yeah, but I would just dump it in with the kitchen stuff Okay, why not? Stink it up. Yeah Stink it up. I'll ward people away from your shredded whatever. I don't think anyone's digging through like cat litter To figure out a bank statement for me. No Uh, so yeah, but yeah, I like big companies what they do is they usually get the the Visiting shredder right the big date put all their shredding stuff in these bins with locks on them Like padlocks that could easily be busted because it's a plastic bin And then once a week or so the plastic bins go downstairs And there's like a tractor trailer with an enormous shredder of industrial nature in it And it dumps out the bins into the shredder There's and it's such a way that even the shredding guys who are driving the truck can't even see what's in there And it shreds that shit like oh baby big time now I get the impression that A lot of the stories of someone got a hard drive and got data off of it are literally just Thought nothing was even done like the hard drive just stopped working and someone threw it away And didn't even try to deal with the data on it They also you can even get a shredder to put the hard drives in i'm sure a big Real big one i've i've used that kind of shredder before they are terrifying to be around Don't put any human flesh or any flesh period anywhere near the entrance hole Yup use a long stick to drop the hard drive in So yeah grabbers what this comes down to is If you just do basic due diligence to delete data from hard drives before you give them to people And if you can't do basic due diligence Destroy the hard drive rather than give it to anyone And that's probably enough and if you can't even do that Then all the data on your hard drive is probably still there and easy for anyone who gets that hard drive to get if they wanted to Yeah, or maybe they'll just install windows and treat it like a clean hard drive and they want to ever look at it Uh, okay, so now we'll talk about not so much deleting but rim wanted to talk about unpublishing right So the first obviously because i'm unpublishing it's because you can't it's not possible to do this Yup, right as soon as you have some bits if you send those bits out onto the internet somewhere Right, guess what you might as well just broadcast some of the whole world deal with it So case in point my crazy archive of like everything it's on my nas And as a result it is also mirrored onto amazon glacier But it's not published because it's encrypted up there So yeah, it was encrypted before it was sent there. Yep, and it's sitting there encrypted So yeah, someone could get those encrypted bits But because the keys are here it's not actually published You don't need to unpublish it because if so even as amazon people open up glacier and get the files out Yep, they got a bunch of random nonsense mostly what this comes down to is the thorny question of if you have data on a service And you want to stop using that service How do you know they actually remove your data if they even do you have to trust them? Yep There's no way the cloud is someone else's computer So it's I have my private photos and someone else's computer. I asked them to delete them. They say they did The end yep, and you might say oh, but what about things like snapchat that the you you have to trust them That's it. You still have you're just going on their word If you look at the code, you know what they're doing unless you even if you see the code How do you know that's the code that's running on their server? Yep, they could have just shown you some other code look at facebook and cabridge and alineka and all that If they let you come into their office and look at their server and examine it How do you know that that's the server that's actually being used? It's not some phony setup I mean look at geek nights like we won't even remove Comments in the old forum that is archive forever If you post it in there like tough nuts if you really had like I guess if someone came to us with like A serious problem like being stalked by something we might go back into that database and like change the name on an account I mean people would could change their own names and on their accounts So like people had done that where I was like no, I'm not deleting anything sorry I want to help you but you know, that's not a way that I can help you They just changed their username to make it so that anyone searching for their old user name wouldn't find them But I just got his question and then they closed their account and stopped posting and it's like okay If I delete my flicker account, let's say Should flicker be legally obligated to delete all my shit. I mean if we're in charge of writing the law Hmm, it depends because at the same time running a forum. I don't want to delete cool data No Right someone took a cool photo and your flicker right and it's like well You know I kind of don't want to delete that photo right the whole world should be able to experience that photo It's so awesome I like this person who previously had already shared it with the world now wants to unshare it with the world I like the idea of a new class of copyright. I just thought of this now Uh-huh, okay. I'm sure it's a great idea. You just thought of now So here's my basic idea because this is kind of like something like so I want to when I die And this is in my will but I want I got updated because it's kind of old Mr. Willow basically a public domain's mine to all my email account everything. Fuck it. Here you go Yeah, you gotta the world can read every email room ever sent Well, I mean I got like, you know instructions like here is how to get into every one of my accounts and get all my Stuffs and you know because someone might need to my emails to manage my stuff when I'm dead I like the idea of there being a class of copyright law Above and beyond public domain Maybe called like the public trust or something or the public time trust these things probably exist No, but imagine so I there's someone have to be a government run service You can't trust some tech startup to do this send it to the internet archive say archive No, no, no, I want the ability to basically send data to a government service that is encrypted And unlocks some like some number of years after your death And there's laws protecting it so you could say Here's data Why don't we start that service and then not actually unlock anything because the dead people can't sue That's not a bad idea. That's like selling rapture insurance Yes, yeah, but I do like the idea of like services that get users data Being obligated to unpublish it at least from the things they control if someone quits their service But I also like the idea that like 50 years after that person's death that data is out again Like get past the point where it's going likely to harm people and have a way to put data into the public trust on a time delayed fashion I think it's more like We don't need that because look if someone posts a cool youtube video and it's cool It's worth seeing and then they decide that they want to delete it from the internet Like does that guy who deleted all this code from the internet over a long time? You know, I've been a few guys like that Guess what it's out there. Everyone's got it. It's too late. Yeah, but how do you know what we've lost? If it was worth keeping we've never been able to find that fuck his head thing Remember that that why didn't you save it? Uh because it was some flash thing and I didn't save it. Why didn't you save the eight people going gaga? Uh, I do have that on a hard drive. That's dead and I'd have to pay someone. Why didn't you back up? Uh, because that was a time when I didn't have any money different time. You understand. That's that hard drive Only holds a gigabyte One whole gigabyte one whole gigabyte. Whoa And actually almost everything else from that hard drive was backed up Except for the most important file. Yeah, uh, we don't have teenage mutant ninja turtles You need it. I can't find it. Good luck. I found a similar but different video I'm just saying there are things I remember that are gone. There are things that are good to be gone I said no, I usually I think it's immoral to delete data, but not all day So we were talking the other day there's a there's the there we were talking this morning too There's the eye. How do you delete something from your own brain? Because we knew a gentleman well, we can end the show on this an RIT Who with a hammer who was so vile That we agreed as a group that he would only be referred to ever as he shall not be named In the hopes that we would all eventually actually forget this person's name I thought we were just saying he who shall not be named because a it was funny and b was to Remind you how gross the first but I legit wanted to forget his name. Oh, and I did I could not recall his name. I'm 90 sure the name. I told you is correct I know and I'm Almost mad because I may have actually forgotten him. I may have deleted information. I remember what he looks like I could spot him on the street I vaguely remember what he looks like But I've morphed him with another person who I do remember their name a little bit because they had similar physical attributes That person we both know that person's name Okay first and last but the name you said I don't actually know if that's the real name Pretty sure it is we'll have to ask Pete Who is the keeper of the name because I remember you remember Pete's name I asked him at the new year's party If he remembered the name of he was she'll not be named and he thought about it for a minute and said and I quote Yes, god damn it. Yes I still remember his name. He lived do you want to know and I said no he lived with he who shall not be named Yes, yes, that is true But I had forgotten and I might have unforgotten thanks to you I mean I basically It's weird right because I had not thought of he who shall not be named for a very very very very long time You just need a pointer to it kind of as soon as you mentioned it It's like oh now I remember this person that I hadn't thought about in years So think of this your brain is a lot like these hard drives where you think something is deleted But actually you just deleted the pointer to it But if anything else in your brain points at it something you haven't thought about in a long time You'll smell a weird smell and suddenly your brain's like oh, that's what that guy's name was Because you smelled him one day and your brain remembered that pointer All right, I think we're done because I'm real fucking hungry now. I'm so hungry. Let's stop the show We had like 20 people watching this one There's a bunch of comments in here. I'll go through later and see if anyone's saying anything interesting But I gotta eat something. Oh my god Um, I gotta do a work thing actually in 40 minutes. So I'm gonna order some food for myself Unless you want to sit here for like an hour and a half You could just go downstairs