 This is still why in the morning we are continuing with our conversation on creating safe and nurturing environments for our children and in turn strengthening our families. With us is Beatrice Ogutu from Investing in Children and Societies. We were just talking about how skillful parenting is useful to the youth. And now, maybe you can tell us, you know, with this year's theme after on International Day of the Family, which is, maybe you can tell us the theme and how we can use that to strengthen our families and protect our children. Thank you, Ms. Stephanie. The International Day of the Family was a day set aside in 1994 by the UN to be able to honor families but also appreciate the challenges that families go through and in so doing enable governments and others to create enough policies, create an enabling environments for families to thrive. And it is quite critical to highlight the problems that families experience from a young person's perspective. You know, it's really common to us, you know, our to a lady, our to an analog, you know. And therefore it becomes quite critical to educate themselves what is happening around what are our young people going through. And therefore, how can parents be supportive enough of young people? Do you want to learn? Do you want to learn? Do you want to learn? Do you want to learn? Do you want to learn? So the burden is on the parent also to educate themselves. What are the challenges and the opportunities that youth have and how can I support my young person? How can I support my daughter and son? So the theme for this year is families, urbanization and migration. And we are appreciating the benefits that come from my urbanization. You know, there's opportunity to have better education, better services, there's diversity, you know, cross cultural diversity when people come together in cities. Those are really good things. Infrastructure really develops the increased opportunities for employment. But there's also the downside of urbanization. If it is not well managed and checked, we have seen a lot of issues around parents working later hours in the evening and the commute system is not really favorable. So we all get at home at nine. At what point do I have that space to discuss with my young people? So public service systems need to really be checked to support parents in their role. If I leave work at five, I don't have to get home at ten, you know, because then I need that space. And then you see because of that challenge, sometimes I also live at five thirty. So at what time do I spend with my young person in the home? Because I live at five thirty, I come back at ten, I'm tired. So those are the challenges that come with urbanization sometimes because there are opportunities that we appreciate, but there are also work-life balance issues that need to be really checked. If we look at the infrastructure, for example, we also need to be considerate of people living with disabilities or young people living with disabilities. So besides the economic benefits of infrastructure, for example, are we looking at the social angle of supporting our young people also to get opportunities in urbanization, but also addressing really the needs of really most marginalized people like people living with different forms of disability. But in terms of migration as well, moving to the cities or other countries, we also see increased family separation and breakups. So daddy or mommy goes to work in town X. Then the children are left in the hands of a house help. Then they grow up by themselves. So then while mommy and daddy are getting money to support the family, but it could be counterproductive because then they are not available. Children are left to their devices. Young people are left to the influences of their peers and other media platforms. So we see this needs to be checked in one way or the other. So in that case, where the parents are away and the children are being raised by their nanny, is there really a way to counter this? Because it's also the tough economic times and you have to provide for the child. Maybe it's a single mom in this situation or a single dad, or maybe both parents, but they are not around. So how do they counter that situation? It's difficult. It's really difficult because then at the end of the day, you have to put bread on the table and you go to where the opportunities are in an environment where jobs are also not available, you know. But we make parents be aware that their roles, not all roles, can be delegated. There are few roles you can delegate. So if I'm working in Kisumu and my family is in Nairobi, how can I be deliberate enough to leave them with a carer, not only the nanny, because then you have to look at support systems around you to guide them, to mold them when you're not there. But some of this you cannot really delegate 100 percent. You really must think through very well. Is it better for me to move together with them to the new city where I'm going to? And if I have to leave them behind, who am I leaving them behind with? And what kind of values is this person, you know, ascribed to so that my children are not exposed to what is not right or what is against my value system? So it's really the parent being conscious, yes, I'm moving away and it is important for me to move away to put bread on the table. But who am I leaving my children with? Is it better for me to go with them? And sometimes families make the difficult of situation. One person lives behind and, you know, they move together. One of them has to stop their job as one works. That is the liberate attempt, because, you know, in our world today, so we can't really blame our young people for the mistakes that they make if we did not train them up, if we were not available. So we need to know it is our responsibility, regardless. So how do I navigate this as a parent? Because later on, as they get to 18, 19, if they make the wrong decisions, who will you blame? The nanny, you left them with, perhaps not, you know. So it's just ensuring when I'm not around, who is caring for my young people? Who's caring for my children? Do they ascribe to the same family values that I have? Can I, for example, unfortunately, in the world of today, even your grandparents are very far away from you. But you have to really think through, who am I living them with? And how do I create moments? Then if I have to come over the weekends, if I have to come after every three months, does one of the partners have to stay at home and take care of the family as I go in another country to work? Those are very intentional and deliberate. Unfortunately, as parents, it's our responsibility. There are things we cannot delegate. I love that, it's our responsibility that can't be delegated. All right. And now you said that you are part of some of the things that you address are the financial issues. So how do you empower parents from, you know, humble backgrounds because you're bringing them to teach them about how to nurture their children and create safe environments for them. But at the end of the day, maybe what they're struggling with is finances and that's what's causing the quarrel, the violence. So how do you address this? How do you empower them? Thank you for that question. One of the things that I want to say upfront, you don't have to be a rich parent to be a good parent. OK. That is critical for everybody to get to understand. Money is besides the poor, it is important, but you don't have to be a rich parent to be a good parent. We appreciate that parents are really struggling economically and it is really stressing them and frustrating them. But one of the things we do in the family budgeting and financial literacy module or topic that we address with parents is first discussing safely about money. You know, it's not an easy topic between people that, you know, we have 10,000 shillings in this house. What do we do together with this money and our needs are this much? So opening that space for the spouses to be able to first safely talk about money, whether it is a thousand or two thousand or a hundred thousand, you have to create that space where people talk about money because people never... Sayangu, Niyangu, Borameleta... So how do you bring these discussions to the fore? So I'm from Mychama. I have 10,000 shillings. I think our family responsibilities for this month is X, Y, Z. What do you think we need to prioritize, for example? So you bring them to that space when they first can talk about money and to look at what are their immediate needs, what are their long-term needs and how can they plan? So we also take them through, you know, budgeting process, regardless of how much that money is at that particular level. And then for the most vulnerable, then we go into, you know, financial literacy, education, business training, entrepreneurship training so that they can engage in livelihood opportunities that can earn them income or increase their income at household level and then connect them to markets and give them, in certain spaces, we've also given them startup kits to really just jumpstart their businesses. And those are really in the rural areas. For really vulnerable families, we appreciate the government for the cash transfer system that they are giving to orphans and vulnerable children and to the elderly. So this comes to support. But sometimes when there is money in the household, it doesn't mean it will be used for good. So we also enable them to have that discussion of prioritization. We've seen places where, for example, we are growing a lot of cash crops. When the men get their money, they disappear from home. Yeah, until the money is over. Until the money is over and then they come back. But even sometimes in urban areas, end month, there are people who disappear from their homes and, you know, come back. So we enable them to have that conversation around money. How can we plan around it to translate to family well-being? How do we ensure that you are adequately supported to know how to budget within this money? How can we encourage both of them to sit down and talk about this? It starts from open communication about money. This is what is available. This is our needs. Let's prioritize this. Including the really basic foundational things around education. Where do we take our children to school based on our money? How do we plan for emergencies? Because this come, people can be sick anytime. Funerals are part and parcel of our society today. So there are also those welfare issues that are demanded upon us as families to be able. So if you open that space to enable them to talk about money, whether it's 1,000 or 2,000, see that you achieve 100 shillings and it cannot be enough. So it's just saying, you left me 100 shillings. Things are really expensive in the market now. This is what I can be able to buy with 100 shillings, you know? Sometimes it's, you know, saying, okay, fine, let's go for shopping together. So that the men will also understand what it means to buy groceries. How much does this actually cost? Because money is a source of conflict. We can achieve 1,000 shillings in the home. They expect a lot of things. But what can 1,000 shillings do now? So it's opening that space, exposing partners to what is available, enabling them to talk about money, but also those trainings around business, entrepreneurship, to support them, build their businesses up, exposing them and linking them to markets and giving them business startups. So Baxu, protecting children, how are you ensuring that their rights are protected in creating the safe environment? So we are looking at equipping parents to support children to be safe at home, to be safe in the community and to be safe at school. So those are environments where children and young people are at any one particular time. So when parents are knowledgeable of their roles and responsibilities and how they need to support and nurture their children and having their discussion talk around discipline, because sometimes abuse happens in the context of discipline. So there are consequences. You later be beaten up, sent away, or given harsh humiliating treatment. Those harsh words parents talk about. Burak abisa, where we come from. Those really demean our young people and make them feel hopeless, selfless. So we really support parents on what constitutes abuse. Sometimes it's not only physical beating. There's also a lot of sexual abuse that happens in the context of families with people that we closely trust. So young people are exposed to our relatives, our extended family members. We feel that they are safe, but sometimes those are the people. Statistics talk about that people who abuse our children and young people are the most closest. So giving parents that consciousness that even the people you live around within your home, you need to be careful. We are not saying all of them, but some of them are not well intentioned. So that is how we ensure parents are able to be knowledgeable to protect children's rights. But on the flip side, targeting children directly with life skills. Part of the life skills education is also their rights so that they can be able to exercise their rights, but also the responsibilities that come with those rights at the end of the day. So if they're able to know what is right and what is wrong and what should not be able to be done to them, then when it is done, they can be able to report it. They know this is an abuse. This constitutes abuse and I need to report it and this is what I expect from where I report. Because sometimes you can report and nothing is happening. And that really discourages our young people to report. And we really advocate for youth-friendly services. Sometimes when our young people are abused and they go to the health facility, perhaps the attitudes of the healthcare workers are not really supportive. And we have experienced a lot of our teenage parents. You know, they go pregnant, they're raising children, they go to a health facility and they're really not treated with respect. And yes, we're a metaleza, but they are in that state. So they need to be supported and guided. So we also have parenting education for teenagers with parenting responsibilities because they're quite a number in this country as well. So that is how we build the consciousness of parents of what constitutes abuse, what they can do to reduce the risk factors of abuse in home settings, what teachers can also do in school to reduce, because bullying in schools, by peers, punishment by teachers, whether it's physical or humiliating, those things happen. So how do we also empower teachers to know what constitutes abuse, how they need to avoid it, where they can report. And what actually happens when a teacher does abuse because there are consequences. And of course, our laws are very clear as a country. You know what constitutes abuse, what happens when you abuse children in a certain way. So we really empower children on their rights through their life skills platform and build the consciousness of parents and teachers on what constitutes abuse and what needs to be done to reduce the risk factors in those different settings so that our young people are not abused or exploited. Okay, so still speaking on what constitutes of abuse. So do you promote just gentle polite speaking between the child and the parent when there's a problem? Or, okay, are you doing away with caning completely? Because in the African setup, there has to be some caning to just be still disciplined. So are you against this totally or is it just some gentle caning here and there? What is gentle, that line is very gray. But what we are saying, we need to understand it from the definition of discipline. Discipline is training up a child. It is not punishment. Discipline is molding the right positive behavior that you want to see within that child. It's being intentional. This is how I want my child to grow up. This is the boundaries. These are the boundaries I am setting. And these are the consequences when you cross those boundaries because then when you're setting those boundaries and rules and training up children, molding them with the right behavior, then it is much more than you've done this, I'll beat you. Because sometimes we beat our children or we punish our young people and they're wondering, why am I being punished? I was not told this is wrong. I've come back at six o'clock. I was never told coming past six is a problem. So together with your young people, we would advocate for you to sit down with them and say, these are the do's and don'ts in this house. And this is why we are saying it is not okay for you to come at seven. Our area is dangerous. You can be exposed to elements that are not really good. You can be abused when you come back late. So in this house, we are coming back at seven p.m. every day. And in the event that you're late, let us know where you are. You know, it's a conversation. So if you don't train me up that way, if I come at eight, why would you punish me? So we are encouraging that conversation. Then when they cross the boundaries, for example, and right now we have so many boundaries that young people can also push us. You know, rules sometimes they say are to be broken. So they test boundaries. We are asking parents to be consistent because today if I say you come at seven and you come at nine and they don't do anything, then tomorrow they come at 10. So consistency in reinforcing those boundaries and the do's and don'ts and the consequences that you've said. So if your young person stays on their phone the whole day, the whole week, they are not doing household chores. The room is in chaos. You say, you know, if you do this, then I take the phone for two, three days. You'll be off air. You'll not be online. Those are some of the consequences that we are looking for. And we have really seen the negative consequences of corporal punishment. You know, the beating. That's why we're saying where the boundaries, how can you know? He is a kid. He is a child. So we encourage parents before you beat, for example, breathe in, breathe out. Take your five minutes away and come back. Believe you me, you will not beat. Because we beat sometimes out of anger and frustration. We feel that this child has angered us not because of what they have done. It's the frustration and the anger. So we encourage parents. Try it at home. And I'm telling parents to also try it. I keep on the yoke to my breathing. Breathe out. End up with 10 minutes, five minutes, then come back. Your reaction will be different because corporal punishment is reactionary. And it enforces immediate compliance for the child. But they really never understand why am I being beaten. Ama wana zoya atani chapa ita isha. You've had children talking about atani chapa ita isha. Kuan ni ni ita enda, ni bani atapiga kelele ita isha. So you've not really done the reinforcing of good behavior that you really want to. So take a step back, breathe in. When you come back with your same child, your reaction will be automatically different. All right. Yes. I want to close. Some parents are raising their children out of past traumas and they're subjecting it to their children. So how do you deal with this fast before teaching them ways to nurture their own children? Part of the parenting sessions and when we are interrogating family relationships, part of the initial discussions we are having with parents, how are you parented? Was it good? Was it bad? What are those good things that you think are still valuable that you can do in your normal parenting? And what are those no-no? And some of them believe you made just the topic we've discussed was, Aki mimi nili chapua. And I didn't like it. So it opens up that conversation that, ayy, and perhaps why am I beating my children? Because my personal experience, and they can really remember vividly, there was a day nili kuja nimi chelewa, iyo siku nili nioroshua. And I remember it, it's so clear and it was perhaps 20 years ago. So then you open up that discussion of, so why are we doing it to our kids? If we feel it's gonna be traumatic, you know? And witnessing violence, even in their own personal settings as they were growing up when they were young people, also has an influence. So that is why we're encouraging parents to get help. And the peer group approach really opens that door for reflections and sharing that this is how I was parented. Some aspects were good, some were really not good, and I'd like to be different with my children so that they are not going through the same things. On the counter side, we see parents who now go to the extremes and say, hey, mimi was a ziwangu, they were not present, they were not there. So now I come here and I want my children, and they are so permissive. So they allow children everything because they were not allowed. You know, they give a lot of gifts which is really counterproductive. You know, their love language is gifts. So I need to really support my children, allow them to do what they want. It becomes really counterproductive. You know, it's parenting, it's not about presents. It's being present. It's being physically present. Being physically present. Emotionally, yes. Yes, but that space we create for parents, they're able to reflect back on how they were parented and address their own traumas and then say, okay, now I'm at a place where I know there are certain things I went through that is affecting how I'm parenting and now I'm willing to be part of these sessions to change myself first and then now I can give my all to my children. So it opens their eyes on there are certain things they do not because they want to, but it's because they experience the same and it is counterproductive. I need to be different and intentional with my children if I want them to grow up, to be successful, to be responsible, to be people of good character in our society today. So would you say that your program targets the mind of the parents mindset first in order to change behavior? Yeah, it's a behavior change program. It's planned behavior. So we are not telling parents what to do. There's no manual for parents in this Stephanie. Even within one home, children are very different. You cannot use the same method for every other young person in that household. So it's opening them up to reflect about what kind of goal they want for their children and how are they becoming deliberate to enable their children get to that goal. So it's touching them first. It is also improving their own self as a person, dealing with those issues that they experience, whether they're relationship issues, whether conflict issues, whether it's self-esteem and self-care issues. So they deal with those first and then they come to that place where they now become conscious that, hey, I need to be a better parent. And we are not saying all parents are bad. Sometimes it's just frustrations and stress that make us do things that we regret later. But then these opportunities provide the space for self first to reflect, heal, learn, and appreciate that I have a lot of responsibilities, but I can't delegate these responsibilities. It is mine and I need to be intentional to guide my child to who I want them to become. I would say maybe this method would work for parents who has one child, equally to a parent who has 10 children. Because it starts with self first and then now on how to parent. So now what are some of the success stories, maybe you can mention too, that you're mostly proud of as an organization? Well, they're quite a number, but one of the things that we have seen quite work well for us is the appreciation of how big and serious parenting is. So a man, we were having a program in Western Kenya and then of course, when we started the program, the men were like, So when their wives came to the parenting sessions, when they went back home, after the three sessions, the man came and said, you know what? I need to go through this. Unfortunately, unfortunately, he had several wives. So at some point, of course, there was a lot of chaos in his household and he could not be able to manage the chaos in his household with all his children from the different wives. But when the wives attended these sessions, then it was quite easy for the wives to collaborate together because now they have found themselves in that space. There's nothing they can be able to do about it. And he really appreciated the fact that conflict management in his home was easy. Communication was open up for the first time all his children from the different wives were able to sit down discuss and see even it together, very simple things that we take for granted. So it really brought family separation as a result of this program has really been reduced and conflict. So bringing together and the man coming to those sessions and inviting other men, he is actually the ambassador of other men attending parenting sessions and seeing it is not only our women. This is a joint responsibility. The other aspect is really children opening up about abuse because when the parents are open and are creating that space, a child can say so and so did something to me and I don't like it. Then the parent takes the risk. Before we never used to know because our children are passive. So there are so many case studies that we have where parents are discovering what their children are going through, including abuse. And now they're taking action to create their home safe. There are quite a number of cases that we have taken to the fore or neighbors who have been part of the parenting program are saying, hey, I see us in that house. I think something is happening. Come and check. So people by standards are no longer by standards. If they attend the program, they are proactive enough to come and say, kindly support this family. I think there's a lot of things that are happening and the children are not safe in that particular environment. Last is also about the sharing of roles and just believe me, we're in Africa, but we are seeing this happen. Supporting your wife in the house does not mean you're less of a man. Actually, you're more of a man now. It doesn't lower your ego and your masculinity anyway. And actually, everybody wants a nice family. Everybody wants a peaceful family. At the end of the day, our men sometimes will do it but they will not expose it out there. Exactly. But they all want to have healthy relationships and peace in the home. There's quite a lot happening in our homes privately and silently. But these platforms actually give us that opportunity to vent and find solutions to these very complex things but in our Zekana. In our Zekana, yes. What is your vision for this country, for the families as an organization? Well, for us, we believe that every child should be able to reach their full development or potential. And parents are the main, you cannot delegate, but the government needs to have in place very good policies. We know there is the National Family Protection and Preservation Policy that is in cabinet. We hope that it's going to be passed very soon. And we hope that the National Parenting Program will be reached. And our dream is that it is taught. I mean, at one point, we will become parents. So why can't it be one of the critical topics we address in university or college so that we are prepared? So our young people, before they get into marriage, why can't they get the basics of what does it mean to be married and to be a parent? And the only way we can catch them, perhaps in our tertiary institutions where they are and teach them a bit about communication, conflict management, healthy relationships, what does that mean? Our religious platforms also have a role in guide because their family really is one of their platforms to be able to encourage, inspire, and guide them in the right way. So we really hope that as a country, the National Parenting Program will be rolled out so that each and every parent, or those who intend to be parents, are guided. Because, I mean, there is no money, but then you can be able to be supported to reflect together with others. I know if I'm experiencing this with my child, there's a parent who already experienced this and this is how they managed it. So our vision and our goal is to see the government really make this, because as an organization, we can reach many, but not as many. If the government really takes this up and supports families and parents in their role, create those platforms within government, within religious institutions, within our education system for young people to be prepared for marriage and for parenthood. So I think it's a good idea to do that too. Then we can go and eat, but it's never happy there after. We need to be prepared really for the role that is coming ahead, but it is possible. There are families that have made it with or without money. I said it, you don't have to be a rich parent to be a good parent. To be a good parent. Okay, where can people find you on social media for those who have questions or just want to talk to you? Yeah, we can be found online on all the platforms. We are on FB, we are on Twitter, we are on LinkedIn at ICSSP, investing in children and their societies. So just follow the hashtag also scale for parenting. There's also a lot of information that we share on that platform on different topical issues around parenting. So at ICSSP, you will find us there. And we look forward to interacting with the young people and with the parents and caregivers to make this world a better place. So now as you finish, this is your camera, speak to the young people. Those who are parents and those that are preparing to be parents. We really want to take this opportunity to encourage our young people. All is not lost. We can start where we are today. For our parents and caregivers, we create that space for our young people to engage and interact with us at household level. Let us model a healthy relationship, healthy behaviors that we want to see our young people emulate from us. So as parents, we really need to be role models. And for our young people, to allow our ZAZI. So as again, maybe to go analog, but we are trying our best to be able to understand you, to learn you and support you. So we really want to encourage you to continue joining those sessions that are available in your communities, in your spaces, in your churches to learn more about critical skills of life, communication, negotiation, critical thinking, decision-making, self-protection. And we will also create these platforms to be a lot more child-friendly for you so that you can be able to become the best that you can be able to be. But we really thank you for taking on this responsibility in a challenging world, to also come up and show the world what you can be able to do. And we hope that through various platforms, we can be able to nurture your talents in so many ways. So thank you so much, Ms. Stephanie, for also having us on this platform. Thank you for coming on board and for sharing with us the insights in parenting and creating safe and nurturing environments for our children. Thank you. So that has been Beatrice Ogoto representing. She is the director, the executive director of ICSSP that is investing in children and their societies. It's an organization. Well, we bring a wrap to this fast conversation, but we'll be right back with yet another interesting discussion. Don't go too far. We'll be back after the break. Thank you.