 Well, there's lots of news. My name is Rob and today it really comes down to stable coins and an attack on stable coins and how things are not as they seem and you may notice that I have a special guest This is Simon Dixon Simon is the founder of bank of the future one of the early investors into Bitcoin and a host of small companies like Crackin and Coinbase in those little places Bitfinex. So Simon, thanks for coming on the show Yeah, always a pleasure to be here. Yeah, man so we see eye-to-eye and a lot of things and Some of those things are where we just need some clarity and you put out a pretty good Emergency I was like these emergency broadcasts. They're good and this one was about Stable coin attacks and one of the things that perked my interest is you said that hey These aren't Stable coin attacks. This is something different. So I See let me bring this up So the first question I have for you before I forget what's going on is Why is this not an attack on stables? Because it seems like that's what it is BUSD is getting getting tronched and we've got a lot of problems that the government is looking at Binance so when you talked about why this is not Attack on stable. So what is an attack on? Well, it is an attack on Binance and certainly if you look at the the flows here And also indirectly this is an attack on banks as well So those two things is where I think this goes in the end for the larger geopolitical and the micro So Binance is not a friend of the US never has been for disclosure. I'm a shareholder in Circle which issues USDC and Bitfinex, which is connected to tether USDT And I'm not a shareholder in Binance. So but that's not the reason why I'm discussing You know like that, but it is certainly An attack that we have seen on Binance. So PAXOS the way that it is structured Is this actually probably the best design stable coin of all of them? the reason for that is because They fall within the confines of They set up lots of little trust structures And they keep within the the amount they have in a bank is within the FDIC limit or is at least This is what they say and then the rest is not exposed to any bank risks So over 250,000 this invested in treasuries and there's not much of You know like tether and circle where circle is actually managed by black rock and You know tether is managed by a basket of different cash and cash equivalents So PAXOS is the stable coin behind Binance And really the the reason they came after PAXOS because PAXOS is registered in New York and so New York Financial services department has come after them as well as The sec claiming that this is a security So the sec I do think is the stable coin attack But the FD the fit the New York FDS That is a way of getting towards Binance because Not long ago Binance switched Where every time you deposit USDC on their exchange They would automatically one-to-one convert it to BUSD in order to try and get the volume of BUSD Okay, but at the same time we've seen that the US exchange and the non-US exchange have been co-mingling funds There was the bit Slago bit Slavo the The exchange that no one's using in Russia And where Binance was you know the one that was contributing most to it. They took that down For a 700 million dollar money laundering attack and really what I think this is is A big big big multi-billion dollar fine coming up for Binance so that the US agencies can line their pockets As all of this comes down to in the end And hopefully Binance continues on from there and we don't get this big systemic risk collapse event And that some people have been looking at a worst-case scenario for the for the wider crypto markets But it's a mechanism to get to Binance because BUSD was built on top of PAXOS And also Binance built a bridge So they were representing it as if it had all the protections of PAXOS But then they were bridging it onto another chain which wasn't authorized And that would then engage with US customers via I for Binance us or off chain Okay, got it So it's not so much like it's like they're going out for the stable coins and stable and issuers really they're indirectly going at Binance because the American government does not like Binance it sounds like and also sounds like no go ahead. We say Yeah, there is a bigger play as well Which is of course the central bank digital currency play. Um, so that's why it's an attack on banks You know most I've said this for a long time. Most people see bitcoin and CBDCs competing But actually CBDCs Are an attack on the banking system because it removes their ability to create money as debt When the central bank starts issuing it So, you know the US executive order the real acceleration that we've seen or in CBDCs in china Um, you know, that is a geopolitical play And at the end of this you you know, you end up having bitcoin It looks like the sec wants to turn everything into a security because of the counterparty risks And and then you've got the CBDCs, which is really preparing for a collapse in the banking system from my from my perspective So do you think that if we're if the government's gonna do this behind the scenes and they're gonna say, okay Well, this is you know, we're going to go against these stable coins And they're gonna try to just wipe out all stable coins Even the darling of the united states, which would be circle and usdc Jeremy o'lear the ceo who's testified before congress numerous times and said look i am fully collateralized Well, unfortunately, some of it is us dollars. The other part is Reserves other parts. So do you think that's their goal is just to get rid of all stable coins in general and not so much about the crypto itself No, I think the goal is to make it a security So what they want to do is they want to make all cryptocurrency issued by private companies Or foundations Into the bucket of security so that they're tradeable upon security token exchanges And the the way that they're doing that is many people are talking about You know the howie test, but what we have seen in the case of ftx and some people are speculated with bitfinex Is that when you put a stable coin where you can see everything on chain Connect it to a centralized company Then we saw in the case of ftx that they end up being able to create these synthetic balances And this is what I think some of the accusations are against finance right now The although it has this issuance layer Within the actual exchange you can end up creating these synthetic balances And therefore they want full disclosure on all of those companies And so they see the whole of finance for example as a security Because they want the transparency that's needed on on that side So, you know the I think they want to make stable coin securities They in the end game where this all ends up in the us version of the world Is that you have cbdcs which occurrences you have bitcoin as a commodity And they even came after the proof-of-stake You know services Because they want proof-of-stake services Exchanges that are exchanging all these tokens issuing ICOs or IDOs or whatever you want to call it next And stable coins all traded within a security exchange Subject to all the disclosures and everything that they put together through decades of securities laws Okay before great. So before we go on that makes a lot of sense before we go on Let me just ask you this do you see this as a world where it actually can work Where a crypto is labeled as securities here in america But it is whatever else it is outside in the rest of the world Which could be commodities or whatever else it is can that actually work moving forward because I got to tell you I mean the exchange right now are going to have a heck of a hassle to be first of all to register No, they don't even know how to do it and the problem with all the different Crypto projects now they're going to be labeled as securities here, but something else globally. Can that actually work in a global manner? Yeah, the two-tiered world is very problematic. So the rest of the world Um, and most of the world is doing what's known as what was recommended by financial action task force um fat f financial action task force Um is the regulator of regulators. So if you're a regulator In a jurisdiction and you don't need the requirement of the financial action task force you get black listed And financial action task force, which europe everywhere is adjusted to Said that everybody needs to launch their own virtual asset service provider Vasp regime Now the vasp regime is mainly focused on money laundering Which is a codeword for tax collection Um as um, you know as their first goal Um and securities is mainly focused on disclosures and investor protections and suitability So are you suitable? Are you rich enough to do it? If you lose the money? Does it affect you? What does the companies have to disclose? Whereas financial action task force and money service providers are focused on money laundering k y c all that type of stuff Um, the virtual asset service provider is what the rest of the world is doing Is initially launched with money laundering in mind But I think what we need is a middle ground where you treat it somewhat like a centralized commodities through currency But you add all the layers of disclosures because there is these um issuers of these products So I think you've got to meet that middle ground and that's what the rest of the world is doing Um, but the us is trying to shoehorn the virtual asset service provider regime Into the sec and I think it's just simply because if you look at the actions of the sec Over the last um, they're you know, their interactions Is they've allowed a company like celsius like fdx You know to get as big as it can possibly get and then once it hits that critical stage and negotiate a fine Um and really make mafia moves like that rather than You know trying to squash it while it's smaller or put together a bit more of a custom regulations So us it seems to be the only one that's shoehorning it in And thinking that the existing security laws are appropriate for a virtual asset You know what so I We're gonna have to jump around because that just I was going to talk about some other things This was leaving me to my fourth question Which is this because you have direct experience with this We talked about yesterday about how gary genzel came on an msnbc squat box and goes look Because it's very simple all these guys got to do is register you got to register your exchanges You're not doing that. You guys are going afoul of the law. We made it super simple. It's crystal clear That's gary and then on the flip side of that we had your friend Jesse powell from kraken said wow that's the only reason I had to do it Then I wouldn't have lost 30 million dollars and I wouldn't be banned from doing Any kind of staking and we took a look at hester pierce and a couple of different people who said that is not true It's very difficult to go through. So this would be my my fourth question Which is the sec states it's easy to register Exchanges say it's non-existent. It doesn't happen. Who's lying right here? Or who is telling the truth and is there something in the middle and you've had experience with this Yeah, there's definitely something in the middle. They're both telling the truth and they're both missing out missing out a vital part of it So my experience is that we created a us broker dealer that we later sold to coinbase in 2018 And they don't use we built out and you know a broker dealer. It was a registered ats So you can trade securities, you know, we built We use that in order to onboard us investors But then when coinbase took it over they haven't actually been using it The reason for that is because they'd have to have the same onboarding experience that we have at banks of the future Which is you have to find out the source of funds source of wealth You know the the different documents you have to collect and ensure the the products you're selling them are suitable Which significantly reduces the number of transactions you can complete You know, it's it's a it's a very different business to what they've been used to So the sec comes out and says well, everybody needs to fall within our regulations Okay, so I do agree that there are regulations for different regimes if you look at celsius Celsius was an illegal bank You know and there are lots and lots of regulations You can register as a bank if you want to engage in rehypothication If you want to sell an earned program that offers yields like You know gemini and genesis and voyager and we'll see as well Then you can register it as a security If you want to hold funds in custody That is fully segregated and has all the investor protections unlike ftx rather than co-mingling those Then you can register as as a you know, either a trust bank or a custodian And then if you want to engage in lending activities and you can register with these different lending providers And none of our industries were you know registering in those ways They were just registering as money transmitters and money service businesses So the reason that they're not is one because the the user experience is not what the crypto people are used to Right, but secondly is it's impossible as well. So after we sold our broker dealer to coinbase We acquired a stake in another broker And then the you the sec said if you are engaging in anything to do with virtual assets You need to tell us so we told them and ever since then we still haven't been able to put a deal live Um because they haven't given this new permission class, which is called virtual asset They then introduced a new regime a couple of years later called a special purpose broker dealer spbd Now I know a lot of companies that have applied for that including our broker dealer Two years later, none of them have received a license and have spent millions So it's not just the the little fee in the little form What gary ginsler is referring to is when you're dealing with accredited investors So if you do an offering for an with an accredited investor Then you can fill out a form and you can notify the sec But if you want to do it retail, it's like applying to be a public company And when you add the word crypto or virtual assets in your name None of them have been approved as these special purpose broker dealers. So it is a complete misrepresentation of the reality Um from both sides So they haven't been applying because it's very hard and it ruins their user experience And they know that they're just not going to get where they want to go Um and they're the reason for that is because the sec has all these different regulators have all these regulations But they don't issue the licenses once you're in the in the crypto and virtual asset space Gotcha. So just just to recap you've done this yourself You've done this with your company with bank the future. You've gone that route You've tried to work with the sec You have put in the paperwork and the documentation and it's been languishing so long That it actually hasn't been approved and it's not just you but it's other businesses out there And you probably spent like you said millions of dollars to do this without any kind of Anything bearing fruit. Is that what I heard correctly? Yeah, I mean, you know, we've been doing and in the end We shut it off to us investors and and then just work with accredited investors when we do But for years we've been trying to get them where we can work with Open up as it were like we have in other jurisdictions all around the world And you know, we've been complying with securities laws from from day zero, you know Since we were the first registered securities business in crypto and we're now the longest standing company in bitcoin But it's still, you know, trying to even even block fight They went bankrupt in the process of paying off a hundred million dollar fine While trying to apply and fill in their s1 form in order to, um, you know, get approval For their yield and earn product from the sec So, okay So let me let me ask you this because you're your business a little bit differently than say like a regular type of exchange Now this is bank of the future. You can do a lot of different investment I'm sure you deal a lot with accredited investors and you guys have a pretty, you know, substantial portfolio But when we take a look at like the exchanges themselves like when you say You know to register these exchanges as a Having them be able to offer securities if they go down that route that is essentially what You will see different places Uh that offer stocks They know robin hood is a very simple example, right? So if they can do that But they can offer crypto Let's just say in america it is and and and f at f it gets involved But it's something different if they could just do that could it actually happen, which would Really leave me to my next point and kind of sandwich it in Is what the exchange is offering the different things which is fine. They can do what they want to They offer staking they offer loans. They were offering synthetics and things like that Do we really need them to do that? Or do we just need them to do the basic thing which is just say look, here's my money I would like some bitcoin. I want to do an on and off ramp and that's it Uh, could we just get get get get away with that and maybe move forward Well, you know in terms of the these services are demand driven. So, you know, we we We offer securities. We offer equity in the largest companies in crypto From when they were startups to now some of them go in public like Queen base Um, and so equity is a well understood product But we've always started as a security now We did lots of innovation along the way for example We created the ethereum mining back security that invested in the ethereum ico and then started mining it when it was proof of work um, we did a uh, you know the first bitcoin volcano bond that was backed by Mining in uh iceland in 2014 And it was paying, you know daily dividends in bitcoin, but it was always A security and we use the existing securities laws and we use the product of debt and equity Right which people understand and then we wrap that around a lot of innovation And that's how we do all our retirement plans for example We give people a you know a company and then it can invest in crypto within that company Rather than starting as a crypto and then trying to shoehorn it into security So that's why we've got through these processes But everyone else is in the reverse all the companies that we invested in You know they started as virtual assets So, you know what what is the solution there and and really it is the us just needs to follow the rest of the world And take the advice from the financial action task force Which is set up that in between you've got currencies and commodities You got securities, right? Um, you need to borrow a bit from both and you need to create a virtual asset service provider regime That's that can take the disclosures from securities And it can take you know It doesn't it doesn't treat it as a stock or bond with all these middle people Because the blockchain is the clearing house and the transfer agent Just like you have with currencies and commodities And if you get that in the middle and hopefully that will be the end result of the executive order But really, you know again, it's uh, I think they want to put it all in securities Um now can they just be you know, can these centralized companies are they are they needed well In the end, um, hopefully not but yeah, you need the onboarding and the offboarding Get into bitcoin and then hopefully the user experience us as an industry Make it where you come off the exchange and everything's done peer-to-peer You know, it's worth noting that it was the centralized leverage that blew up During our deleveraging event of 2022 2023 The defy contract still worked You know, obviously that there's layers of scamminess that happens further than the cycle But the well-established one they worked as the as the code provided You know, so to me in the end the end game of all of this Is that you have you know regulators become increasingly more code Securities become more code. There's this emergence between these different asset classes And let's not forget that we are in that that that tipping point of an exponential artificial intelligence adoption curve Which is really how tradfy works right now if you look at for example, you know black rocks Aladdin that controls approximately 21 trillion dollars of assets You know and approximately 40 percent of the stock and bond market just by one artificial intelligence robot There's no doubt that that's the future of central bank digital currencies And all of these different services that would be created as well Gotcha. Okay. So that would actually that would actually take the other questions away Which was I wanted to play devil's advocate which he just did for me, which you know I said, what's assumed the sec the nmydf s is a valid point Could finance be performing synthetics fractures or banking and all that stuff which you pretty much said that look If you do those things there's a way to meet in the middle But you have to do it in a structured way and anything else you want to add to that or did I miss it? Yeah, I do want to say, you know a lot ftx Celsius Those major user cases they they would have been prevented by the existing regulatory regime if they were registered under those regimes So, you know, there's decades and decades of how you manage a bank With fdic insurance and you know various other things. So, you know, the the the crypto banks like silver gate and signature Yeah, you know, they they fall within those regimes now They they've had the stress test as well because they've had so many of their deposits Um, but you know, we haven't had a collapse in the traditional crypto banks to this to this stage We're not out at the woodworks on that one. Yeah Um, but you know securities as well. It's just simple stuff It's sell them to people that are suitable in sure they're not investing all their lifetime savings like people were in Celsius And uh and make sure you disclose exactly what you're doing so people can make a decision about those risks And then you've also got the defy stage Which um, you know, if you can just take out the middle person Then we don't need to police by enforcement on centralized companies You've got this middle ground already baked in which is you allow people to transact peer to peer And you create immutable records of those transactions on the blockchain So law enforcement can stop outsourcing their job to financial institutions Well, that's what that's what's great about the blockchain They can find all those things on on the chain itself You know, I'll just say this and then what we're gonna get to the q&a I always When all these things happen with with ftx and Celsius and Voyager and things like that I always thought to myself man if they just would have done the right things at the right time All's he had to do is just offer a very simple service Person wants to buy a crypto You take that money exchanged in the crypto You take a small fee and that was it and like this is the thing that I see for exchanges And I understand what you said like if there's a demand and people want to do it but like you said if there's a demand and there is The documentation and things that they put forth as far as closures work Will great so much the better and then lastly I will just say like like when you said You know, hey, we shouldn't have people put all their their life savings into it People can go to the casinos they can put life savings into that That's just straight up gambling and people can actually go to robin and spend quite a bit of funds on on You know securities on stocks and equities and go from there I see that we can allow people to do these things as long as there's a little bit of like Let's not allow the co-mingling like we just saw with ftx. Let's get a little bit of you know to move forward But again, if we can't move forward because you know like you just told us that it's very difficult to do You've already tried it with the paperwork and documentation. Yes. You see I think Just learning more about this. I think there's more people that are wrong than are right So Then actually that's the last one. What's the resolution? We kind of talked about that So let's there's a lot of things that uncovered there, Simon. I like having you on it's always interesting I always make me think about different ways because I see it as Sometimes I see it a little bit too black and want to get a little too carried away like yesterday That's like these sons like but now I look at them like well, maybe there's more people wrong than right There's always two sides of the same story. So thank you for showing us The other side to really think about as well is When shit hits the fan as it did in 2022 2023 Yeah, a big chunk of the investors they don't go and say leave me alone. I want to suffer my losses They go running to regulators and say why did you allow this to happen? This was a failure from the regulators Why did you let me invest in this product? And they say well fine. We'll just make it available to accredited investors only because You know, so it's always it's investors That go to the regulators and demand in in times of of bad But they want to be left alone in the times are good. So that's kind of what regulators have to deal with as well Well said All set. All right, everybody. So what we'll do is we want one 27 minutes. It's not it's a little bit longer I'm going to ask everybody to put in their questions. I got a couple right now So queue up your questions for simon. We'll ask him anything or ask myself and and we'll go from there Rasta man says Rob stop advertising coin ledger as it does too many mistakes You're going to pay more on your taxes because that's stupid app your money. I love I love I love the criticism I welcome it. So here's the thing rasta talk to me about what specifically is going on because guess what tomorrow We're going to be going live with the guys from coin ledger the ceo and David kemrer or one of the co-founders and also their cpa and their tax lawyer So you can ask them all these questions that are coming on. So put it in the comments I'll ask them or just come back tomorrow tomorrow. Yeah, and we'll go over that Uh, hello from portugal. What a treat to have simon on you said it That's a good treat. So I remember that that uh, we got together for that uh, that twitter spaces with the uh, Celsius squeezers that was a good time, right? Oh boy, that's been the bane of my life for the last eight months, but they've really, you know, um Helped me to check and uh, you know, we've accumulated We we got to the final point after eight months where I was like, okay, the examiner reports out Mishinsky is officially a scammer of fraudster. You know, he manipulated the price of cell. He enriched himself And there was massive manipulation. They didn't have the licenses. There was misrepresentations the whole way And still no, I thought we were just going to rely upon that but they still found a way To make this all my fault as well. That's always we get man. You gotta there's always got to be escaped Good brother. That's how it goes Well, if if it gets creditors back a better result and and I've got to be the scapegoat then then fine I'll take that one. I'll take it Let's see Oh, here's a good question. If you're in the u.s. Uh, do like I did and move to a crypto friendly country The pros out our way the cons Because Simon will Simon you're in the uk. You guys are pretty pretty friendly over there Oh, well, I used to live in the uk. But um in our business we had to move to hong kong in 2015 We spent three years changing securities laws in the uk And after three years of reform we got the whole um retail investors can invest in equity in bitcoin companies That took us three years to achieve and then they said it was 2013 You can only deal with uk businesses and uk investors. There was no there was blockchain.com. That was the only one we could find There was few uk businesses and a few uk investors. So We actually had to relocate to hong kong And I don't live in the uk anymore. I live in the the island man Which just has a very Life is simple for me. I'm not saying this right for everybody But in the island man, you just have this thing called a tax cap So you just pay one annual fee no matter how much you make no matter how much you earn Um What your heart out and do whatever you need to do with your bitcoin Oh, why'd say that again? So you like it's just one fee for everybody no matter what you earn Yes, so my tax return just consists of um paying an annual fee a tax cap Um, which you don't you know, that's the maximum amount of tax that you pay and you just pay it every year one fee Um, and uh, you can earn and make as much as you want Holy smokes. So everybody remember that's hong kong island man. Not a bad place to go to Yeah, the problem is is if you're american because uncle sugar wants to keep you in america no matter where you go This is well, this would be the thing. I think you'd have to renounce your citizenship. Puerto Rico thing, right? Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, Puerto Rico. I mean on Puerto Rico at least there's You know, that's where we live is uh, you still you still have to pay federal taxes But you don't have to pay uh capital gains tax depending on how you do it act Act 60 and then um, there's some different provisions and things to pay for but then all in all it's not bad I mean, uh, peter schiff lives here. So, you know, how bad can I be? All right This is kata coder asked a good question U. S. Citizens wanting to trade on exchanges outside of the u. S Legally is the approach to get a second citizenship or do you have to renounce? I have no idea on this one I don't I just use coin base these days and that's it. I don't know if you got any It's an interesting question because um, you know for our bank to the future, it doesn't matter where we are It doesn't matter. Um, it's the residency of the individual customer or the investor that counts So as soon as we take on a u. S. Investor, you know, we have to comply with sec regulations In that transaction whether we're abroad or not But you as an individual If you want to get outside the protections of the sec It's it's a tricky thing to do in america more than anywhere else I know some countries they have wealth taxes and exit taxes and various other stuff Um, but america is one of the only countries in the world that no matter where you live They want to keep you american forever as a tax resident Yeah, they love you to death to death as long as you pay your taxes Also, guys, I forgot to to make mention of uh, if you're looking for simon dixon's channel I put in the links in the description Actually, it's like the first one simon dixon video which will take you to his channel And again, I do this really good breakdown of the stablecoin attack and the things that we went over just In a lot more detail a lot more concise without me interrupting with questions So go check that out and his channel and I think this comes down to I think this is the last one We normally get a question from someone saying they hate my clocks That always comes They hate your what your clocks. They hate my clock and lamps and think i'm a Saudi Arabian King or something uh dictator I always thought like like some I think when I first saw some of your shows I'm like I always thought that you were like uh, james bond villain because you had like some really cool stuff in the Background and then like yeah the ocean. So that was pretty cool. Here's a question What's going to happen to b usd? Does it only apply to us customers because as I understand it the sec saying you can't to pack those Both the packs those who issues it they say shut it down I'm they're going to let allow them until february 2024 to redeem. Is that right? Yeah, so um This is the interesting point when you dig a little bit deeper So it turns out that b usd was split into two different things So you had the b usd that was issued by pack source and this is the issues Um, and they've the the new york has said you've got to stop issuing that and then pack source has said we won't um We discontinued that But binance was actually bridging that onto other chains Which wasn't going via pack source now um This really is the issue of all issues Is are we going to have to sanction u.s customers from stablecoins? um And if we are going to have to do that then the next stablecoin is going to have to think figure out on chain kyc travel rules And all the things that pretty much Turn a stablecoin into a a cvdc issued by a private company um So that it's very important, you know, because it's not quite a case of you could sanction You could take us out at the exchange centralized level Yeah, um, but you know as tether is experiencing if if you're you you can use tether in the us It's registered as a money service business, but you know, uh, this is an interesting challenge ahead I gotta agree. I don't know It's gonna be a long drawn-out process And of course gary's gonna be right in the middle of it and then uh, lastly because I know simon's got things to do today uh Voyager I just received an email from voyager starting to start a finance account in order to retrieve my assets This is uh for us customers Would you guys recommend that move being that binance is having problems too? Like look here's what I've done because They still have my documentation as living in texas and texas is not an authorized state for binance us So for me like they they say they're gonna try to work on a money transmitter license throughout these different states And uh, if texas doesn't get it and they're just going to say we're gonna give you your lump sum and cash That's really what's gonna really down turn out to so for me I'm pretty much stuck in in that one Because I left a good amount of crypto on there and then of course with celsius. Who knows what's gonna happen with that I got a nice six figures just sitting there, which will probably get liquidated. So for me That's what's gonna happen for you for binance. I mean look This is my personal opinion. I can't vouch for binance, but so far they're doing they're still solvents I haven't seen a problem. They've had a massive outflow As the they had these different problems that were that were coming up as cz said It's just fud and they were able to weather the storm. Does that mean you should leave your crypto on an exchange? No, it does not I got these rules Which are right below simon right now and one of them is zero percent of exchanges meaning don't leave your crypto on exchanges So if they do do that get an analyzer get a tracer take it off and go from there simon anything Just talk about with that one Yeah, yeah, I mean I can give you a quick synopsis on the on the chapter 11 So in voyager case, obviously binance won the bids after ftx blew up and tried to take out binance in the process And then binance took out ftx in the process And a very complication complicated term sheet was sent through You expect to get approximately 50 percent of your crypto, but The the algorithm that they put together in order to buy back your crypto and put it on another exchange It is very complex. Um, so You may end up with 50 percent of your coins on binance the alternative as rob as rob said is that They have six months to apply for a license if they don't get that license then they're going to sell for your coins for cash, so Personally, uh, I would use binance as a mechanism For getting my coins off as fast as possible And the thing that I you know the main thing that I would be concerned about with binance is more If they had a catastrophic 90 collapse of the bmb coin Were they marking that coin to market and was that trying to hide a hole similar to FTx that's the big question Do we know the answer to that? Absolutely. No one knows the answer because they don't publish or audit So you can't you actually don't know that's the problem. Um, so it's a risk one Would have to take so use it as rob said to try and get your your funds off as fast as possible If you don't want to take that risk, then it's cash And you're at the mercy of the markets. Um, depending on what the price is When they do that On the Celsius side, uh, there's actually a court hearing tomorrow Where Celsius still are yet to put together a plan eight months later? And I've already given them four different plans Throughout this whole process They also had bids that in court The lawyers Kirkland and Ellis lied in court saying That none of the bids allowed people to get their equity or illiquid assets And our bid did and it was leaked by Tiffany Fong And there was other bids that did as well. So literally they got caught lying in court So Celsius is a is a real bad actor at this stage. And now, uh, Yesterday it hit the docket that a bunch of regulators have all just said The ucc objected to them extending we had to lobby them all the u.s. Trustee representing the department of justice It said you can't extend exclusivity a lot of creditors And uh and and now 40, you know about 18 different regulators said we don't believe you've got a plan We think you're going to run out of money before you actually release a plan Um, and so they've said the 15th of february is the deadline Compare that with block fire on day one. They released a plan. They're already in the bidding process They're getting ready for that voyager already through the auction genesis. Jim and I they've already negotiated to deal with digital currency group And Celsius still is the only one that doesn't doesn't have a plan. So these chapter 11's they've turned out to be The biggest scam I have ever been involved with for protecting companies that have committed untold off fraud Um, and the lawyers are the ones that get paid essentially What they do in chapter 11 from my experience Is the lawyers make it legal to do what spf did spend client money on lawyers And a hundred million dollars later We're told that if you don't release a plan, you're gonna have to liquidate which we could have done from day one. What a scam So Do you hear that? Do you hear that that's the sound of my blood pressure? Going way way higher. So on that note, I will just say to everybody This is the video that I was talking about. There's also a link in the description. So I put it here I will post it. Uh, I will pin it to the top of comments and you can also find the description Check out Simon for more great alpha and follow up on Celsius and things like that. I gotta say Simon I'm right there with you. I'm sad And disheartened that I ever talked about Celsius and and had The scamster on the show and with that that is it. So look everybody Thanks for stopping by we appreciate you like today's video. Give it a thumbs up consider subscribing all that good stuff Go check out Simon and that's it for today. So everybody have a good day. We'll see you guys on the next one Ah the oh so