 Did this cocktail bar discriminate against her and her friends for being Asian? This TikToker is making her case and waging war. Yeah, this is going viral right now. Desam Lee, who's known as Explore New York City, got denied entry into Paul's baby grand. She's got some receipts. She's looking at Ludwig the Bouncer. He's racist. Let's play the clip. Avoid this racist bar in New York City at all costs is honestly so upsetting. This is a story time of how I was discriminated against at what I found out later to be the most discriminatory bar. The N2 Asian girlfriend must inform a tire. Heels decided to wait in line Tribeca at a bar called Paul's Baby Grand. Get to the front of the line. I'm noticing that this doorman Damian was pretending like we didn't exist. Like we weren't at the front of the line looking past us to let in groups of white Caucasian women that had just arrived. I didn't know any of the management. They weren't calling anyone out by name and I asked him, Hi, I'm so sorry, but we've been waiting a while. Like, do you know when we'll get in? He doesn't even look at me in the eyes and just goes, it's not happening tonight. But I felt like something was so off that I went back and decided to ask him, I'm sorry, but why were we not let into this bar? Formal attire. We have heels on of age 24, 23 and 31. He didn't even ask for our ID. He's completely ignoring me as if I'm not even a human being. Go to tap him on the shoulder. Why were we not let into this bar? Sir, he finally looks at me. He's like, don't you dare touch me? Who saw her touch me? Witnesses. He has eyes around him raise hands and mock me and laugh. I start taking photos of him as evidence. He starts posing for the camera, absolutely enjoying himself. And he says, please leave. People are actually trying to have a good time here. And then he's like, IDs, IDs. I called him out for being racist, completely ignored me. They couldn't name a reason because they didn't have one, or at least not a legal one knew exactly what they were doing. Hey, man, I wasn't there. I don't want to just fully up, you know, outright support because she's Asian because that's too simplistic. But I'm just saying she did put together a case, right? She put together a case and clearly that bouncer, based off of her accounts, was being super rude and disrespectful. Honestly, at the baseline, if not racist, at least disrespectful. Anyways, guys, we have our quick thoughts of our own takeaways and we're going to be covering the comments. So please hit that like button. Check out other episodes of the hot pop boys. From silly to serious. And we talk a lot about a lot of crazy things on this channel. This is definitely in the silly lane. But why is this going viral right now? Is it because so many people relate to this experience of getting denied from nightlife? Because it's almost like other parts of society are supposed to be more civilized and have equity. But the nightclub, everybody just like accepts it. Like you're too short. You're too fat. You're this. You're that. And everybody's just like, oh, I'm glad I got in myself. I can't let you in because you owe this. You owe she pregnant. Can't have a bunch of old pregnant women around. I'm only allowed to let in 5% black people. He said that 5%. Yeah, nightlife is super discriminatory. I mean, I think it's going viral partially because you don't see attractive women get denied. You'll know as a dude, we get denied all the time. Right. Even a tall, good-looking dude can be denied if he's not spending enough money. Right. And if he's rolling solo dolo, maybe he's not part of our group. Or rolling in a group of guys. Yeah. If you're a group of guys, forget it. You're not getting in. Even if you look decent. But yeah, attractive women definitely. And obviously, your interaction with them was pretty bad. It was pretty negative, I got to say. But I got some quick thoughts. I will say this. First of all, shout out to her for calling them out. Because I think if she put the case together and pulled multiple complaints from multiple years, she has a solid reason. And not only that, she's an influencer called Explore New York City, where she has a big following where it's like, people trust her because she's given people so much free content and analyzed things for years. Yeah. Also, I will say this though. Highly exclusive New York City spots. And this is a spot that a lot of artists went to. Leonardo DiCaprio has been there, Virgil Abloz there. He even made a joke in the past about how exclusive it is. But New York places will always prioritize high spenders, people they know, super hot women, let's be honest. You're talking about like signed state management model, Ford models. People who fit the crowd and the vibe. And then lastly, it's you, or me, people who are maybe outsiders. It's also just like, to be honest, sugar babies and the people who can afford sugar babies. Yeah. And here's the truth. I looked into the law and the law is, if you own a venue and a bar, that venue can refuse service to any individual. So as long as that reason is not based off race, gender or origin or religious beliefs. So you're saying if this dude, Ludwig was like, yeah, Matt, it's just because you didn't like fit that like Studio 54, like disco, like 1970s, 1980s, like the Smiths music video, like thing we're going for. It didn't have anything to do with anything else. Like that was the reason, dude, that was the reason. Yeah. We don't want your kind here. What? Because I'm Asian. No, it's because you're wearing all black. We don't let all black outfits in. You're not, you're not hipster or culturally contextual enough from the 80s. It's super slick. As long as that person doesn't say it's about your race, it's hard to say that it was actually racist, even though we all know it probably, race was definitely. Do you think that probably realistically, and I'm not saying for sure, but I'm just assuming like at least 90% of the audience of Paul's baby grand or Paul's Casablanca are white people, because white people tend to like that, like 70s, 80s vibe more. Right? Oh, do you think that they'll stop going because of these complaints? No. I feel like they won't because that it doesn't apply to them. I don't think it even affects 95% of Paul's crowd. And I will say this. I pulled up a bunch of pictures of Paul's parties and there's, there is different types of people there. There is black. Not a lot though. Not a lot. Of course, it's mostly a lot. They play the Smiths who like, there's not listening. Like your place is playing the Smiths all night in 2023. There's nothing wrong with that, right? White people listen to white music or whatever, like, but it's mostly white, right? Look at this club. Unless Virgil Abloh is there, there's probably not a lot of black people there. But anyways, guys, let's get into the comments section. All right. The first comment was, this is not okay. And this was left by Dove and other blue checkmark influencers. All right. I'm not going to lie. I don't really know what to do with this comment. Like this is not okay. Shout out to Dove. But what's Dove going to do? Is Dove going to stop supplying soap to all those franchises? Or like what area? What is this rich white lady going to do? Like, is she going to stop going there? She just said it's not okay. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, listen, I'm not ever going to go to Paul's, but I don't think I ever was, you know? But I'm definitely not anymore. But I have actually been when sometimes there's like these high roller Asian guys. Sometimes I noticed like, if you roll within a squad of them, they don't like going to AZN spots. So they will go to like spots like The Blonde and Soho and stuff like that. And yeah. So I've been around this crowd. It is weird. I don't fit in with it. I have been rejected from bars and clubs before. Or I think reasons of just being a dude and also being Asian. Yeah. But you can be an Asian guy and get rejected from an Asian club too sometimes. Somebody said, Welcome to the life of POC. Thank you for posting and raising awareness. Somebody said, Yes, welcome to what black and brown women experience all the time in the space of entertainment. Somebody said, This happened to me as well at the exact same spot. I'm black and was with a mixed race group. And yeah, somebody, she said, I'm so sorry we need to end all of it. And then somebody said, Listen, as a black woman that has no voice, I'm just going to smile because when we speak up and stand up against other groups, they always turn against us as we are the problem. So there were some people agreeing on a micro level, but this other girl brought it to a macro level saying we always speak up against white people, but Asians never have our back until it's white versus Asian. Yeah. I mean, I, I guess. Yeah. No, I mean, it's just it's a weird context to bring that up in, but I can see what they're saying. Somebody said, you know, I went up to a really well-dressed woman in London and I'm a POC and I asked her for directions and she turned me away and acted like I didn't exist and didn't give me my humanity. I think when you bring up a bunch of individual interactions that you've had with people, I think everybody's like racist. Like, you know what I mean? Every, everybody's racist. Has got stories about racist interactions with other types of people. I do think it's a little different, Andrew. Let's be honest here, because in 2023, a lot of people are questioning the old world white power structures, right? The Anglo-Saxon power structures that have governed a lot of elite circles for a long time, right? Because it's not like three pretty white girls would try to probably get denied from an Asian club. You know why Andrew? Because three pretty white girls would not go to an Asian club by themselves. That's not even a situation. Right. This is another Indian girl. She said, yes, avoid. This has been known for a long time. I'm sorry you had to deal with it. And other people are like saying, look at their IG. It's all dirty old white men and blonde bimbos and stuff like that. And then somebody said, this is an Asian, a white woman came into the comment section and defended it and said, I see an Asian person in background of one of the photos you took. How did you get back there if baby grand is so racist? Weird, huh? And somebody else said, yeah, I've been there and Ludwig is a nice guy. Maybe have you thought it's because you're overweight? Oh, um. So these, I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to, I don't want to fully racialize it because we don't know. I think both of these comments were from white people. Yeah. So I'm sure there's white people who want to defend Paul's or defend the fact that there may be other factors beyond just race. You mean that made them not fit in? And I guess you're saying, I'm trying to play the devil's advocate here. They hate people who don't fit into their vibe. Don't fit into the crowd or not big spenders. As a guy, I'm not going to say every time that I've been turned away at a bar or a club is because I'm an Asian dude. I think being a dude is part of it, but I'm also not a big spender. So anytime you're a regular dude that's not a big spender, you are put at the bottom of the priority list and maybe at Paul's. Also, if you're a female who doesn't fully fit the look and again, they can be as discriminatory as they can, as long as it's not. Apparently from what I can tell, they want both the guys and girls to look like David Bowie. They want everybody to look like David Bowie, the guys and the girls. I mean, I've seen this picture of an Asian girl there and she definitely looks more like in that artsy, you know, she got like the Cleopatra bangs and like she has that certain look. I'm not. And now, man, that girl's cool. That girl's cool. I'm just saying she can come. First of all, I am not defending Paul's at all. I'm just saying that discrimination can be a discrimination pie. It can be so many different reasons. Somebody said, I don't get racism in general, but especially racist in NYC. You moved to one of the most diverse places in the world, probably the most diverse city in the world. And you are mad that it's not just one race in a club. What on earth did the owners expect? Somebody said racism is horrible. Racism has been always there in New York City for a long time. And somebody said, well, maybe it's people from outside New York. And somebody said, no, even when New York was all New Yorkers, they were still races against each other. So there was like a little bit of disagreement back and forth. David, I got a really hard question. I don't know if you have the answer for it. You guys let me know in the comments down below. Some of these venues that are so cool, David, aren't they kind of cool because they're exclusive and being exclusive means you can't let everybody in. And if you can't let everybody in, how do you not let everybody in? You have to have some type of discriminatory practices or you have to filter people out. So I think part of the reason why so many people want to go to these cocktail bars, this one in particular, is because it's cool and exclusive and it's hard to get into. You mean they have that Studio 54 like hyper discriminatory bouncer that's like, you're cool. You're not cool. You're cool. You're not cool. You're cool. You're not cool. And maybe in the 70s and the 80s they would actually say why you're cool or not cool. Like actually in the movie Studio 54 and they did it with Mike Myers in it. But obviously now in 2023 they're just making that read without saying it. Yeah, no, definitely. And sometimes money talks if you want to buy enough bottles and buy enough tables, they're going to let you in regardless if you don't fit the vibe. I think there's a whole another aspect here of Asian women fitting in enough with mainstream white culture that they're shocked that they get denied from it. And by the way, I'm supporting Deson Lee completely. No, this guy is clearly a penis head. I'm sub-signing everything. But I'm just saying that I think a lot of Asian women they get more accepted earlier. So when they don't get accepted it's more of a shock whereas Asian guys were like, no, no, no, we get shut out of a lot. Like maybe like anything past level like three out of 10, we get to shut out of. Yeah, I don't want to just compare my feelings as an Asian man to her feelings as an Asian woman. I feel like everybody's experience is different. But yes, I do agree that like I would never have that expectation as to I would get into. Right. Because you just be like, yeah, they just go against Asian guys. Especially if you don't have a special connection. It is true like, but that's also why a lot of people want to come to these bars. And it's it's a double-edged sword. Well, it also depends on like what crowd you're talking about. Now, I'll say that can get in. That's dope for them. This guy Ludwig was clearly being an a-hole. He was. But did he say anything racial? If he didn't cross that line, it's like you can't call something a hate crime unless the people have like a true reason to believe. You know what I mean? I'm not saying. I'm just saying like from a legal standpoint, you have to have some type of like hard evidence, you know, right? I don't know if there's a legal case here, but there's certainly enough case to make your point in terms of just shifting exact public opinion, right? Exactly. Exactly. Somebody says this white girl, I believe she's like Russian. She said, I'm going to clarify because I don't think your feelings about racism are incorrect. But I think it goes deeper. This bouncer was selecting you, rejecting you based on appearance by the looks of it. This is a bunch of Bushwick cool kids trying to create a scene stir vibe and showing prejudice to people because of that. Maybe you and your Asian girlfriends, even though you guys are perfectly fine looking, are not like scene stir enough. Yeah. But you know how this conversation is all about who's even good looking and the whole reason why we're talking about this is because Desam Lee is attractive. And we're like, oh wow, an attractive girl got turned away, but what if she wasn't attractive? Are we even having this conversation? Yeah, because you figure that that's almost the number one hard filter of nightlife. We just accept that nightlife is shallow and that filters people out super harshly, whether you're broke, whether you're a man, whether you're good looking, not good looking, dressed a certain way, you fit into the scene. This is unfortunately part of nightlife and this is why a lot of people don't go out. Right. And this is why a lot of people only go out to the bars that are like almost totally free from this. Yeah, that's a good point. Andrew, let's get into our takeaways. Why do you think this is something that it's just, it sparks a lot of thoughts and I think it's because geopolitical things, they're often too complicated to sink your teeth into. There's too many layers, the flavors are too complex. This is like pretty cut and dry, even though it has its own complexities in its smallness. My overall takeaway, I like her speaking out. I think she made a strong case. She brought the receipts from the past years of other people who felt that same way. I clearly, this dude is the A-hole and Paul's, if they don't want the bad press, they're going to change things around. Now, maybe they budget and they do the math and they don't care. And maybe they'll just stick with their own crowd. I don't know, but guess what? I'm not going there. I'll never go there. Right. You know, is it weird that like nightlife and church are the two times a week that are the most segregated? Like nightlife is very segregated, man. And so is church. Churches are. Those are, I'll tell you this. I think it has to do with your comfort zones and your comfort zones happen to usually be around your own tribe, whether that's your own color or own culture or own look or own class. That's your tribe, right? So people want to be in their comfort zone. And unfortunately, yeah, I mean, that is church and nightlife. It's funny because those two things are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You would say of at least like, I guess, wholesomeness. Yeah. I just think that big cities are changing. And you know, just because a place has been super discriminatory with their policies for like two decades, it doesn't mean they're going to be able to be that way for another two decades. Yeah. But I think as long as people can make a good case against spots, I encourage them to call people out. Yeah. And I think it's wrong for Asian spots to do this as well, because the last thing I want people to do is be like, oh, okay, you guys are calling it out against Paul's baby grand, but you aren't calling it out against whatever Asian club that's doing the same thing. Absolutely. No, no. It goes for the same. It goes, it cuts both ways. Exactly. Yeah. No, I mean, at the end of the day, listen, if you want to pay, it is true, but you probably got to want to spend some money to be in the venue, which that I understand from business standpoint. But if you're there as a paying customer, I mean, you know, I don't know. I mean, they shouldn't be discriminating against you. But there are societal power dynamics at play as well in the comments section. Of course, you know, those are the macro factors, whether it's spoken or not spoken. You know, let's just say, I won't be throwing my birthday party at Paul's anytime soon. Let us know what you guys think in the comments section below from silly to serious, man. Keep it civil. Until next time, we out. Peace.