 bahawa ini tidak menyebabkan kehadilan dan timar rasa boleh menggama Islam Sin Chiao, oh hello in Vietnam. Selamat datang. This is a special session at the arena at the World Comic Forum Masian 2018 right here in Hanoi Vietnam. This is also being telecast of a web and over television around the world but also through the Astro Awani multiple platforms. I would like to welcome you to this discussion by explaining that first particular video. This is a passionate discussion for me because as an ASEAN citizen the core of being any ASEAN citizen for me is we are very very mixed and plural and diversified in our DNA or food or everything else around us. The video you just saw highlighted at the end the best for me of pluralism as exemplified on May 9 in Malaysia diversity in majority unison ushering in new hope through the ballot box without harm, injuries or death. The oldest politician that you saw just now, our new prime minister was a diversified force in his second coming at SPM at 93. His former protégé turned his number one opponent before whom he jailed is now his coalition partner that is the chosen successor and Dr. Sriano Ibrahim was dancing on stage with an MGR from the Tamil movies lookalike and it was a Tamil song and he could speak Tamil. That's how diverse my new leaders are but this is just a sliver of hope in the increasingly creeping darkness of threats to diversity and pluralism in Southeast Asia. We are the most diverse region and population maker of the world but really just thought lines leading to extremism and terrorism is creeping in, racial divides, burning acceptance and tolerance before into now hate and violence, economic monopoly, shredding trust between people, businesses and government from the gubernatorial elections of Jakarta, the Al-Ma'idah from the Quran issue with Ahok to the Rohingyas well highlighted but not really well dealt with continuing tragedy that's still happening to the streets demonstrations because the new right sharing makes a lot of drivers who plough the streets for their income is now gone and the taxi drivers are not alone in that. Diversity is definitely and really has been a strength but is it really slipping away? 5 key leaders of this region and beyond will be discussing this with us today. The first on my right is a very passionate and impressive political leader of Indonesia Grace Natalie. From a journalist and TV presenter, that's me, that's the new superb version that you can be. She co-founded Partai Solidaritas Indonesia I always mix my Indonesians but it's the Solidarity Party of Indonesia and I've never met with this kind of party anywhere around the world. It looks at women and youth issues it's made up majority of young people from the age of late teens until maybe 25 those are the key group that the party looks at. So Natalie I'm glad you are here but I'm also glad that you are sitting beside an artist because we don't just want this to be a hard serious talk we need art into the picture so please welcome also Miguel Miguel is a very interesting guy and Miguel Sihuko he say it's not Sijuko Jay is age because his ancestral line goes all the way back to mainland China but he's a Filipino he's an assistant professor I shall not give you the full title because it's so long and diversified but safe to say he's an assistant professor in NYU Abu Dhabi. Sitting straight across from me I always put the capitalist right in front of my eyes cannot come bigger than the Lippo Group John Riadi I've met before in Davos family face and name in ASEAN and of course in Davos and the Lippo Group and the Riadi family very established business family and conglomerate of Indonesia John now is the executive director of the Lippo Group from one important ASEAN island nation to an island way up north in Asia Japan but if the discussion today gets too heated we have the reverend because reverend Sujino will be the one to include the aspects of interfaith or interreligious discussions networking and problem solving because through his designation RFP deputy secretary general he empowers more than 90 countries discussion on this matter and networking last but not least don't be fooled I saw Miguel's tweet but Emily Pradichit is not from Thailand actually I thought so too but she's actually she was born in Paris in France but two parents who migrated to France because of the happenings in Southeast Asia in Laos and she co-founded a very important foundation and she's going to talk and represent the marginalized societies especially of Southeast Asia so this is not going to be the forum format I'm just going to go straight to it when it comes to food Roja is my favorite I think the Indonesia know that well too there's a lot of stuff in there fruits or otherwise but when it comes to football it's not just the French I'm back my pardon Emily that won the World Cup with people not just looking white because if I look at the Indonesian football team it's multi-racial the Malaysian football team is likewise but when it comes to competitive wealth aggregation inequality when it comes to the political platform when it comes to the power of the government to the people then suddenly we have issues of pluralism Why? Are we jekyll and hide in Southeast Asia? So I would like to start with you because you're actually a European disguised as Southeast Asia can you give your views because you left Europe to fight for this kind of causes in Southeast Asia I think you pointed out very clearly what you're talking about is actually hypocrisy you know when we have the French team comprised many of players who are from African descent and also teams in Indonesia and Malaysia who are multi-racials everybody is happy to win and then we form one country and there's unity and everybody is celebrating it but when it comes to tackling social justice and talking about inequalities that's when governments become more hypocrite So I would say government in Southeast Asia Southeast Asian region is very rich when it comes to capital but it's a region that is very poor when it comes to respecting human rights and that's a very important focus of Manushaya Foundation Malia, I love you but I want to speed it up a little Let's go straight to the point How come two of my original panellists cannot get to come into this panel today because they were not allowed into the country but doang sang suci is and we still baffled why we can't stop the atrocities to the Rohingyas It's simply because Southeast Asian countries do not want people to tell the truth and that's a real hypocrisy as young governments will make international commitments at the United Nations Human Rights Council they would say that they are committed to implementing and respecting human rights but when it comes to addressing the Rohe Jack crisis and putting words to what is a reality to genocide they don't want to hear about it and they don't want human rights activists and human rights defenders to actually talk about it so that's why they are using criminal laws or they are banning people from entering the country such as they be so hard from a secretary general of FIDH who could not come to Vietnam and ban from entering Vietnam because of her activism and because she is speaking out and speaking for marginalized communities we try to right wrong so if we can gender diversity rule runs here I am biased for the gender group here so Grace Natalie please tell us your views on that because before you were like me you have to be in the middle generalist, ethics and all that but now you are leading a party and you might have to criticize build coalition but the older powers the preset establishment are they using the faults of fault lines of the multi-racial composition multi-religious and lingual for their own advantage because at the end of the day it's about power okay thank you Kamaral always a pleasure to sit side by side with a fellow journalist and I'm in politics for almost 4 years now and we were there to witness our former Governor Pahok was trialled for a blasphemy and has to spend 2 years in prison and is going to be released I think maybe around December or January so Indonesia no doubt is the land of diversity we have substantial religion and faith and so far we live in harmony and we receive the title of being tolerant but what happened just a year ago Pahok make us question have us have we lost our tolerance have we change it's another form of society well there's this survey appalling made by Saiful Mujani Research and Consulting it's a credible research organization in Indonesia they found that they ask the correspondence which group of people they dislike the most the top 3 are LGBT and ISIS and also communists while the dislike towards the Chinese and Christian are very very low in fact the survey was conducted somewhere end of 2016 and the dislike towards the Chinese only 0.8% and this has been consistent for at least 15 years so the narration the narratives that is built now the hatred towards the Chinese communities and also the Christian are not actually in line with the findings through the survey but we do see increasing number of intolerance and what happened to Pahok based on this survey so it's solid that actually the public has no dislike to the Chinese so it's not about ethnicity not about having a you know being minority in faith but in my point of view it was fabricated for political interest by political interest after Pahok was sentenced to years of prison the police revealed that there was a syndicate that produced hoax and fake news and they were actively producing fake news during the Jakarta gubernatorial election so we see political exploitation they exploit the the ethnicity issue for their own interest so it's not only about the society being intolerant there was the youth are showing tendency to become more xenophobic and intolerant but that is not the main issue so in that case the preset established political powers being the last to migrate and convert because they want to maintain their base of power so they use the tools that they know best which is to divide and you are my great friend today because that's the political side but we have to talk business here this is the world economic forum so I want to ask you this ethnicity matters and if you're a minority people tend to think especially from the west right here in Southeast Asia but your family has built very successful business platform and also reaching out to a lot of people in Indonesia and beyond so I would like your take on what Grace Natalie has said let me say a few things first of all I want to echo the optimism that Grace shares the outcomes of the Jakarta gubernatorial elections where our Chinese Christian think about it in a city of Jakarta where only 13% of the constituents or the voters are either Christians or Chinese a Christian and Chinese governor with all his divisive actions still want 42% of the votes still want 42% of the votes despite the whole city only having 13% of the people that are either Christians or Chinese despite all the things that he's done that's highly controversial a substantial number of non-christians non-Chinese still voted for him so I think if anything I look at the outcomes of the Jakarta elections as a sign that pluralism is very much alive in Indonesia we also look at someone like Grace a minority and more than 3 or 4 ways she's able to do the things that she does able to build a political party but from the ground I think again it's evidence that pluralism is very much alive but how do you look at it from the business community and perspective because whatever happens politically you want business to continue lot of investments done I think the good thing about Indonesia is business is separate from identity politics and I think this may be a different path if you take a look at Malaysia and Indonesia going back 30 years ago racial-religious challenges but I think both countries each country took on vastly different approaches to dealing with those issues Indonesia took on a much more anti-classification strategy whereas Malaysia took on a much more affirmative action policy in Indonesia, your race or religion has no bearing on business there are no requirements that says to do A or B you must be a certain race or religion so I think to be honest very rarely or never wake up and think about my business in the context of my race or religion I think it's a very pluralistic country that we live in Indonesia Reverend Suji, you had a big role to play in the Yogyakarta statement about interface and inter-religious how is it that I get that kind of optimism from John and Grace Natalie but when I look at what happened in Sulawesi when I look at the lynching a few people just because they believe that's the word from the Kitab or the religious book that they're professing I mean how could we go from there, that kind of optimism to suddenly turn around and say you're not my friend anymore because I'm standing here, this is about me and God and I'm going to heaven for example how do you reconcile this multi-religious aspects Thank you so much you mentioned Myanmar situation and I would like to mention the speed of the impact of fourth industrial revolution on the speed of the spread of social hostility so what's happening in Rakhine state then spread across the country in Myanmar and affected buddhist-muslim relations and then as a whole I think 250 million Muslims 205 million buddhist so 42 40% respectively so that the relationship between Muslim and buddhist in ASEAN states have been affected so that's the speed of the spread of social hostility and how to address that I have very very positive understanding of the role of religion religious communities can play important role what happened in Jogjakarta was convening senior most religious leaders from the region Muslim and buddhist and we visited the scriptures original scriptures Quranic scriptures buddhist scriptures and came up with the shared values and commitments and that normative statement on the shared value can become the basis for just multi-ethnic vision for peace and development so that the practice has to continue that the politics and religion that the exploitation of religion in politics will continue unfortunately but we have to be resilient and try to advance the vision of multi-ethnic can that win over the big amount of funding and money going to political campaigns and rally they're going to have their presidential election next year what hope is there for civil society NGOs and the likes that want the positive change against this powerful forces that you can't overlook this powerful political forces behind everything but it's important to create sustainable mechanism for resistance resilience and social cohesion building one example in Indonesia and you and Muhammadia are associated with different political parties but there is an attempt to create inter-religious council where new representatives Muhammadia representatives Buddhist association Hindu association so all different communities coming together to create this mechanism to address tensions overcome the challenges so that kind of habit of collaboration and dialogue has to be cultivated Emily, help me here people used to think that if you take religion as one of the diversity spec that we want to look at or the terrorist come from some village somewhere didn't go to school doesn't have any money so it's easier for them to subscribe to this but you were born in Borneo I hope my French is correct there the suburbs, the squatters areas where even the most advanced societies of Europe still marginalize people who they suppose to preach the right as you talk about hypocrisy but what hope is there because you've seen even in Europe where there are more mechanism to help the marginalization is still happening so what chance is there for ASEAN if even the more advanced Europe is like that it's like that in Europe because people tend to think that it's a human rights or being or a western ideology and I was born and raised in France which is the country of human rights but there's this invisible glass there's this invisible glass of inequality that people cannot advance that it's very difficult if you're coming from a minority or if you were born in France to be able to advance I think the hope that we might have for ASEAN is that there is this shared value within ASEAN communities and ASEAN countries that we support each other this shared values of love and compassion ASEAN countries are less selfish than western countries and people tend to share more now the issue is when we're looking at south-east Asian countries and our panellists my fellow panellists were very positive I also have lots of positivity and hope only if you listen to marginalize communities to LGBTI if you listen to migrant workers, refugees steadless people, indigenous communities those are all being affected by criminal laws by businesses that are operating without taking into consideration whether it is respecting the livelihood and the land of the people that are living in the places where businesses are being built unless we listen to them and we empower marginalized communities to be at the center of the solution if you empower the most marginalized to be able to sit at the same table as decision makers Miguel, you're going to have to help us here because in general in freezing Davos the co-author of Professor Schwartz's book when I interviewed him, Nicholas he said, if you don't talk about it you don't see it, you don't have it when talking about the facts of our 4IR but if it's in our literature to promote more positivity but good news doesn't travel as fast as bad news Well literature is really just part of a big conversation as is media and as is an event like this Grace I mentioned narrative and how narrative is used to divide and conquer within different communities but what's interesting is is really how being able to speak out freely being able to have a voice is being able to have a vote within society and I think it would be helpful for us to really question or interrogate this idea of what is pluralism What is it for you? Well to me it's an idea or an ideal and since it's an ideal therefore it's a goal in which it's a very revolutionary goal in which all sectors of society have equal access to power and representation so that they can advocate for their own rights and needs and you know the title of this event is pluralism under threat in Asia and I find it a very silly question because I believe that it is absolutely under threat I think the real question is do people care? Are they willing to sell out their rights for economic gain for partisan politics and I think also we have to take from business economics is based on competition and competition is seen as a good thing and yet in terms of in the realm of ideas in the realm of discourse and political values it seems increasingly in this region particularly and around the world that the competition within ideas is becoming increasingly attacked and people especially the powers that be are more willing to seek a monopoly of these ideas I want to go to monopoly monopoly by strong political power big entrenched vested political interest plus in business my hand doesn't go there John big businesses and conglomerates so exactly I mean in business monopoly we will shout and protest that a business is becoming a monopoly lay on top we won't do that under President Duterte no views on that because people were hoping for so much change just like in the United States of America but now suddenly it looks different I will keep my views on Duterte to myself I don't think this is the venue for that in fairness to our discussion one thing I will say about Mr. Duterte's tenure is that in no time in my lifetime I'm 42 years old in no time have I seen Filipinos so divided but at the same time never have I seen Filipinos so politically engaged and I see that as a great disruptive opportunity I do have issues with Mr. Duterte's particular brand of politics but I'm hoping that in this disruption that he represents Filipinos will become more politically engaged we certainly are already enraged but I I see things as getting worse before they get better politics run in your family if I were to believe your twitter timeline your father's right if Mindanao issues and the moral issue is not solved then how do you look at it what regard peace and finally development equally across the whole island Thailand has a south Thailand Myanmar has Rohingya Malaysia has the Borneo side that is not equal in development it's very exciting that we have the first Mindanao and President it really is finally hopefully we will see opportunities opening up for that region in the south he is seen as a but at the same time there is the drug war at the same time there is this division amongst all of these other sectors of society and I'm not so much worried about what happened during the Duterte regime I'm more worried about what we'll see in our democracy afterwards we're Asia's oldest democracy but we've always been a dictatorship of dynasties a majority of our elected positions are dynasties and so how can we actually have a proper democratic society I mean our constitution is built so that if I or any Filipino wanted to run for office we should be able to but the reality is that we're not able to do that and so although Mindanao is now being better represented the real question is equally across the nation or other people being well represented and given the opportunity to seek power since the beginning of this not seek power seek your point since the beginning of the discussion whatever, whichever point we went to seems to allude back to one of the key pillars mark in the website of WEF or WEF that is new kind of leadership might be needed to oversee ASEAN not only surviving the forced industrial revolution but championing it our way so I want to ask one key takeaway in that respect from that viewpoint on ruralism in ASEAN and the new kind of leadership because I keep hearing big businesses big political power and entities so because I started from my right hand side I'm going to start with you Emily we do need a new leadership we need women to be more empowered we need women in power in ASEAN and we need to move from patriarchal society to society that actually women leadership and youth leadership youth and especially youth from marginalized communities have so much to offer women have so much to offer we are very diverse we are smart people and I think it's time for ASEAN to build their own leaders and stop looking at western leaders there's so much potential in ASEAN and it's time for women leadership to take place Reverend yes, I think playing on fear identity is wrong and nurturing and creating the multi religious and multi ethnic vision for peace and development is critical that's the identity of ASEAN and leadership can come from political arena, religious leaders youth leaders, grassroots community leaders but we have to keep cultivating that important identity multi religious multi ethnic identity vision for peace just follow up to that point do we ban stuff like political parties naming themselves after religions like Islamic party or Christianity party because in Southeast Asia we're too diversified for that some people think, what do you think I think the politics and religion they inseparable so there are many things different identities different mandates and different capacities between politics and religion we have to acknowledge that and there will be some misuse exploitation of religion or religions allows themselves to be instrumentalized by politics those phenomena will continue but as I said this persistence on the vision multi religious vision for peace John, are we too set in our ways for world question or societal well being mobility moving hours diversity has always been the strength of ASEAN and in some ways pluralism has always been under threat but I take a very optimistic view that I think the changes going on in ASEAN today and in particular the fourth industrial revolution will bring great benefits to the continuing resilience and diversity you take a look at some of the best things that has happened in our region recently whether it's the election of our current governor jokowi or the many inventions brought about by the many disruptive companies in Indonesia today those are all made possible by the fourth industrial revolution and I think those are all having a positive impact on pluralism so I think more good is to come just to be devil's advocate the thousands of taxi drivers I could still see it Thousands of taxi drivers lost their jobs at millions of drivers now earn more income because of these ride-hailing companies so I still maintain my position that I believe that disruption brings positive impact to society Miguel, do you leadership need it? Absolutely, you know we're talking here about politics and religion two things that we're not supposed to talk about in a polite manner but I absolutely believe we should be talking about this more and more discourse is always good civil discourse particularly and I'm a writer so my job is to imagine the culture the society that we can have one day the world as it could be but at the same time I am also supposed to examine, listen and understand the world as it is and I think everybody here in this room will agree that the world is as it shouldn't be a lot of things need fixing and we definitely need new leadership it's incredible that in the Philippines the median age is 23 I think the numbers across ASEAN 60% are under 35 and yet our leaders are all in their 70s set in their old ways and it's funny in the social media age we don't we see ourselves as followers and I think we need to have that paradigm shift where we actually begin to see ourselves as leaders the fact of the matter is everybody in this room is a leader in one way or another whether it's of your family your corporation your small business your church group and if we were able to see ourselves as leaders participating within society then we will no longer fall victim to the narrative that the powers that be pedal towards us and say well we will be the protagonists here support us and we will fix everything the truth is politics is far too important to lead to the politicians and we all need to participate and we all need to take some sort of leadership role in that way okay cool Ibu, Grace Netanyi I totally agree with John that Asian pluralism is alive and kicking but we have to acknowledge that the threat is there and it's growing in numbers and we have to do something about it and one way to do it is to go into politics or to support the moderates to go into politics what happened in Indonesia just a few months ago is that this lady who was complaining about the sound of Azan and she was trialed for blasphemy and she was sentenced one and a half years in prison while after she complained there was some people who burned temples and for them the sentence was only one or two months in prison and we see that no parties including the nationalist party say or have a position in this case the judge was definitely under pressure so we need to jump into scene through politics one of the way my party, PSI even though we're not in the parliament but we visited her in prison just last week and we committed that we will take part in her plea to the next level of the court so we this is how we fight intolerance and we have to do it systematically other ways I'm afraid that the pluralism in Asian might I'm not gonna say gone but if it's already tough now if you just let it be it will get tougher and tougher so I will support anybody who wants to fight for pluralism one way to do it is to fight through to political channel to pass the law that is fair for everybody from all ethnicity to all religion or faith we have increasing numbers of local laws that is getting more and more not supportive to pluralism like in Ache there's this law who forbid those who are not buying in marriage to sit in the same coffee table and drink coffee together so definitely we have to do something about it and one way to do it is to go into politics or in taken don't just gossip about the leaders in coffee shops go in and do something by the way so who's the best president for next year never mind not the forum not yet this is diversity in nation please include more diverse views I'm gonna use my moderators right will be the first question from Malaysia please indulge me because I've shown the clips about the comment on the caning of the supposed to LGBT based victims anyone else please raise your hand as usual introduce your name and where you come from if you can get the first mic so who's the winner thank you I think Malaysian general election that resulted in the famous victory of the opposition was a plus we're talking about plurality is a plus and Mahadeh's cabinet was an immaculate conception had the mix of race in fact Mahadeh oldest prime minister in the world we also have the youngest minister in the world and mix of gender, race and age and so it was a great thing and however Malaysia still faces this problem at the wave of the wand you can't immediately change the nature of the society but it's a beginning of a change so you've been talking about the need for change what would you think are the catalysts for change winning in a political election campaign bringing about change in society they're thinking like in Malaysia I feel we have to assault we have to begin to attack the Malay-Muslim mentality have a mass movement not to violently but to attack it through the mind and through argument to actually bring it down bring it lower it and say the Malays are not under threat Muslims are not under threat 150 billion ring it which is about 40 billion US dollars had been spent on the Malays these past years it's been a Malay government power for 61 years you didn't use your opportunities you have to begin to attack them if you are Muslim why are you so insecure point taken Tan Sri I would like to go past the immigration so what is the catalyst what is the catalyst I'll take one more question please anyone would you like to ask please I would like for it to be gender deficit yes thank you so much i'll buy you coffee after this i'll hold you to that I'm Maui, I'm an impact investor from the Philippines I just wanted to ask everyone on the panel keying into Miguel's point on narrative I think everybody has democracy is essentially a self perpetuating system where every voice should be heard and I think that the concept of ASEAN pluralism is one song many voices but I don't think it's natural for human beings to listen to other narratives and I think the reason we're losing to narrow nationalism is that pluralism doesn't have a great brand doesn't have a great narrative and I was wondering how in each of their diverse fields in business and in politics and in religion how we can make that chorus very good point made and who would like to start I think in the spirit of what I'm going to say I think it's a question that is the catalyst the sense that we are being silenced within certain sectors of society and a refusal to be silenced by the powers that be who are seeking to control that narrative to use it for their divisive purposes to maintain power and they'll use religion, they'll use economics they'll use ideas they'll use anything they can to quash any dissenting voices in the Philippines we have media that is under attack we have opposition leaders who are being arrested or trying to be arrested these are efforts quite simply to shut them up because their ideas are competitive ideas to the status quo and I believe the catalyst will just be eventually enough is enough, we'll start feeling enough John, I want to moderate the question a bit it's easier to go against the political powers playing them as black but the more invisible or underground is the business monopoly and in Malaysia even Indonesia for the longest time we've been talking about corruption and this wouldn't happen without collusion from people with money and businesses so how do you answer that question from Tan Sri and also from the grateful lady that I am for on that perspective business I think the reason why you mentioned pluralism is not a sexy song for many people is I think for many people they don't feel the benefits of diversity they don't feel the benefits of pluralism and they don't feel the benefits of apparent economic growth of the region so I think it's important that as our region does well and it is doing well economically one of the most attractive economic regions globally that more and more people feel the concrete benefits and that the gains are shared with all of them whether it's economically, educationally socially, politically and I think if we can do that I think diversity as a song will become more sexy and I think to your question of what change needs to occur I think I recognize that I think business has an important role to play I think businesses today must realize that in addition to just providing new products and services to the consumer I think a bigger role is expected of them to also take part and address some of the social problems that our region faces and in many countries like Indonesia where such large land masses and such inadequate infrastructure sometimes business is best position to do that so I think in that sense businesses have a very important role to play and I think if we can do that we can contribute to making sure that the progress of ASEAN is felt by more people and I think only by doing that can I think pluralism continue to thrive I'll take, you want to add on? Yes, please. To the question in relation to catalyst and narrative of pluralism I think she answer your question maybe the catalyst is actually to promote pluralism and that's something that is very important the more you promote pluralism the more it's going to become more standard and normal for people to be able to live together without any threat and without any fear of the other and that's something that we believe strongly in the foundation that I found in Manusha foundation because in our work we are building people we are bringing together people from very diverse sectors and we are building coalitions and network of people living with HIV LGBTI, religious minorities immigrants, indigenous people who are very different but all sharing the same trend of discrimination and criminalization perpetrated by the government or by businesses and when you bring those people together they are sharing solidarity they are learning from each other and they are building understanding and compassion and then they stand together with one strong voice showing that pluralism by standing together together showing what they would like for the country is that embrace diversity that does not push anyone to select a religion but actually they can all live together within all their religions they can be from very different different ethnicity and still they can all advocate together stand as one strong voice to lobby the government to improve their livelihood and to pass positive legislation that would not criminalize them so I think the solution and it was an excellent question and I will give you the answer Promoting pluralism is the catalyst I think I want to squeeze one last question can I add to that totally agree with both and I would like to add even though it sounds cheesy probably but we need to build the sense of pride being one nation I mean we used to have that but not anymore I think John but just looking at Asian games just looking at that with the opening so cool and everywhere has become trending topic suddenly without being instructed there is this sense of pride being Indonesian and we have more gold medals than targeted and for the 2 weeks time nobody talks about being different nobody talks about religion or political choices nobody talk about that we just realize we become one big nation and we have the pride of being Indonesian if we have this narratives to schools and universities where the youth are showing tendency being xenopobic and intolerance then the other narratives the one who want to become the warrior for their religion will definitely automatically reduced just adding to that Imagine having an all star sports team made up of Asian countries all 10 of them Final question please sir can we get the sound? No sound? Hello? My name is Robert while I'm Dutch I've been in the region for 18 years and I'm a technologist by heart so my question focuses on how does technology help or hinder pluralism in Asia Is there any kind of technology? Any kind of technology Businessmen take that first Sure I think technology creates a much more transparent He's always picking on me Because at the media center they say that his company ferret 2 helicopters so technology inclined I think technology creates a much more transparent marketplace of ideas and that cuts both ways it can be a negative factor because it obviously allows bad ideas and bad actors to to use a more transparent marketplace ideas to convey their message but I think at the very same time it also allows good actors to take advantage and capitalize on that transparent marketplace of ideas to promote their cause so again I return to the example of our current president Djokowi's election as first governor of Jakarta and then president of Indonesia who did not run was not backed by a large political party he was a self-made man in that sense in political terms and yet he was able to garner the support garner the votes, garner the funding precisely because of technology and that what I don't think would have been possible 15, 20 years ago so I think technology has democratized power in that sense and if the good actors would like to actively use it it can be a force of good oftentimes the bad actors are more active in using that as a platform whereas the good actors are more passive so I think it is upon us it is our responsibility to take a more active role and to shape and to make sure that our voices are heard in a world of a much more transparent and efficient marketplace of ideas I want to bridge that to Reverend Sugino because yes we should be more active if we don't put positive messages but if we open all the doors and windows in our house who's going to be vigilant and stay up there to make sure no one enters for example and that's what people are accusing the platform economies like the new technological platform like social media form the technology and social media platform are important but before that sense of purpose it's important that this catalyst for social cohesion even in Rakhine state in Myanmar right now there are forces which try to bring together Rohingyas and Arakand communities and other communities all together for dialogue and they can use the technology to strengthen their work but unless there is a very strong border identity technology can be misused okay and history has shown us how technology has been misused you look at Nazi Germany Joseph Goebbels was so effective because he took control of the airwaves he consolidated power over that during the Marcos dictatorship it was the same thing the powers that be the Marcos regime took over the television took over media so they no longer had any voice what's exciting today is that now we all have access to this technology it just seems like the dark side is more better funded and more open to you misusing it but there's tons of opportunities for the rest of us to learn how to use it for the good lessons learned from the Star Wars movie Emily you were like so for me technology is really important because it opens doors and allows the invisible and the unheard to be visible and be heard but we also need to put things in perspective and to put things into context we are in ASEAN and we are under military regimes Thailand is under military government Laos is under dictatorship Myanmar is under civilian government since 2011 it's still military and so we also need to realize that although people are trying to use technology to be able to share the stories and to be able to share the truth especially when they are facing rights violation when there is a crackdown on human rights defenders they are also being arrested for using technology now you have the case of human rights defenders in Thailand being arrested for pushing the button like or for sharing news about the king you have stories in Laos where the government due to allow them collapse has reminded Laos people that they will be against the law if they share news or fake news basically sharing the truth about how they allow them has undermined their livelihoods so as much as technology is a great tool to be able to share the truth and share stories it's also being used by government trying to control it and try to control the narrative and silence human rights defenders technology is definitely important but if we do not equip the people it can be backfired I take an Indonesian case literacy rate is very low in fact we only better than Boswana so can you imagine our traditional literacy rate is low and there come the digital literacy rate so we have a lot of youth in our demography and with low education very low literacy rate and they have the technology so hope spreading rapidly and this is something that we need to overcome so technology definitely we need those and PSI we heavily depend on technology to build the party from the ground but we really need to equip the people so they can be critical when we have an access now to all information that we can get just one touch to google and stuff but we really need to filter the information that we get from the technology so that it won't backfire and threat pluralism youth on the streets once told me Robert that technology is like a fancy sports car that would be nice to have but whether or not that's true sadly nobody has reinvented time so that's all the time that we have please give a big round of applause to all my 5 panellists and to yourself so i want to still the next one and half minutes to just say my 2 favorite take away from here is that wow such optimism from my biggest neighbor Indonesia and i want to link that point to the fact that Emily came all the way from Europe chose to be in Southeast Asia and she puts out the word invisible hypocrisy and what i like the most is thanks to the lady i owe coffee to that pluralism needs a champion narrative by artist businessman reverence you the civil society and others take all this and including myself but the world is full of irony and i would like to thank WEF i want to end with this, i think it's app because in January we had India opening and US closing President Trump was at the end so i would like to quote from Martin Luther King and individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individual concern to the broader concerns of humanity and ibu dan juga bapak saya mau pinjam kak wanca sila Indonesia juga semangatnya di Malaysia Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Philippines or wherever you are ASEAN but we need to address all the issues we have discussed thank you so much and we'll catch you hopefully we've done well and you give us 2 hours in Davos in January thank you, goodbye thank you so much