 Hi there. I'm Ashley Burns of DAV and today I am joined by DAV member and retired Marine for Sergeant John Bernard. So we're going to be talking about something that I know is forever etched in John's heart and truth be told mine as well. We're talking about stories of America's military veterans during 9-11. And while there are countless stories of those who were serving during that time or enlisted as a result of the attacks on 9-11, I don't think you can really tell that whole story without talking about the men and women who were also lost in Afghanistan in the 20 years since that day. So John is with us today. He is a Gulf War veteran. He also lost a son, Josh Bernard, in 2009 in Afghanistan. But I want to take it back to 9-11 and start the story there. John, can you tell me a little bit about your recollection from the day of the attacks? So I was in the reserves and I was working on a mountain in Maine when we got the word that a plane had hit the first tower. And one member of the crew that was there came around the corner and told me that. And my first reaction was, well, you got two great big sticks standing up in the air. It was just a matter of time for a plane hit it. A plane had hit the Empire State Building back in the, I think, the 30s. It was not unusual to me. A few minutes later, he came back around the corner and he said, a plane hit the second tower. It's a terrorist attack. And every head on the job site within hearing turned at that point, turned to me. And everybody just stopped working. And they all asked the same question. How can you possibly know it's a terrorist attack? And of course, then there were the following phone calls and we're meetings and as we were trying to try to figure out who was going to be called up, who was going to go where, when, what the missions were going to look like. But that's my recollection anyway, being on that job site and having all of these people around that had no clue that something like that could happen. You know, John, as you mentioned, your father was a Marine and you were very young when you first decided you wanted to become a Marine as well. I think there's something very, very special about legacy military families like yours. You know, the military is sort of contagious in a way for those who live in service. You know, you, you see those people that you love and respect and admire and you want to follow in their footsteps. So what was it like for you when you found out that Josh was going to be part of that legacy? What was your reaction? Maybe foolishly, callously, naively, when you start to realize that your son or daughter is going to join the Corps. Kind of proud of that. It's like, you know, that just seemed like the natural thing. I personally never gave a thought in all of the years that I was in, including the Gulf, never gave a, just a second thought to my safety. It just, it's just, it's not been an issue. So when Josh mentioned he wanted to join the Corps, that thought initially didn't, it just wasn't there. I was not concerned at that point. So I was most proud that he did, you know, he'd made the decision. My big concern was that he was making this, you know, the decision for himself and not in some kind of sense of, you know, duty to family that he must follow in, you know, my footsteps or something. So there was no, no angst, no concern at that point. That didn't ramp up in me until, until his second deployment to Afghanistan. His first was to Iraq and we knew, kind of knew what the conditions were and the limitations of trouble and whatever, kind of knew what the mission was. And so I was, you know, other than just keeping in close contact, whether it's best we could, I had no overt concern. That concern didn't come in until we found out that their second rotation was going to be to the Helman. And I, because I'd been keeping close tabs on the nation at that point. And, and with the realization that they had just, you know, changed a strategy and he was going to be leaving right on the heels of that. So then, then I became, you know, concerned. So on August 14, 2009, 12 years exactly to the day prior to the U.S. beginning evacuations out of Afghanistan, Josh was killed in action. He was just shy of his 22nd birthday. Even as a Marine yourself, no parent can ever really be prepared for that moment. But can you share with me your initial reactions to learning that he'd been hit and perhaps even how that evolved over the days and weeks that followed as your family processed that news? We've gotten a call from him on Wednesday. He was just getting ready to mount out on an operation outside of the main Nile's out area into a small hamlet called the HANA. And they had decided that as best they could in areas where we were working, that they would go into the towns and the hamlets of villages that, you know, and wherever the polling booths were, that we would do one of two things, either guard those polling booths, or if there was a presence there that that was torturing the population, that we would go through and clear those areas. So the HANA had a cluster of Taliban and they wanted to get them out of there. And so they got, Gulf Company got the mission and he called me on Wednesday and said, hey dad, he says, there's something coming, he says, and it's going to be bad. And it was a significant change in his voice. And I don't know if it was premonition or he was prepping me or whatever. Of course, the problem for me was that, you know, I'm trying to be the supportive dad slash first sergeant still and not really acknowledging what he was trying to say, I think. And I didn't blow it off. I was encouraging him, you know your job, you know, you've got better skills than anybody, you know, just keep your head on straight, you know, just do what you do, you know, and you'll be fine. Over the next day or two days, we got word that, you know, that they had pretty much to listen to the news, they'd completed the mission. It was like the mission was over, you know, and it was just a matter of hours later and we've gone to the job site, get in the truck, go home, I went to the house, my daughter, my actual daughter was working with me at the time, but dropped her off and I walked over to the shop and then I hear a panic call from my wife and my daughter coming up the road and I didn't know what had happened. I typically think, well, somebody died, somebody got hurt, but it still hadn't crossed my mind, it could be Josh because we were seeing that everything was done, you know. And so, I look up the road and sure enough, I see the cake all coming up and so it's interesting, I literally fell to my knees, I was, you know, in that instant, I know what that was. So, of course, there's a whole battery of questions, you know, it's got to be some kind of a mistake. I mean, we just heard everything was clear, you know, but over the days, I mean, I did a bunch of research and got a chance to talk to the leadership and talk to the guys that were actually in the patrol and found out that they had pushed through, there were elements, you know, somebody's flanking somebody when you push them through something like that and somebody had called an administrative hall, you know, who knows why, I mean, probably nobody there will remember why, but it usually has to do with, you know, just making sure that units are where they're supposed to be and you're not going to wind up in a friendly fire situation or you're just for control, you know. But the point was that when they stopped, they were in a dangerous zone and the patrol leader immediately reached for the handhawk and say, we have to displace, we can't stay here, you know, and excuse me, one of the locals had already approached them and said, look, we know where the bad guys are essentially, you know, and so they knew that they were heading into something, they just didn't know what it was and but before you could even make the call, they got a barrage of rockets and Josh took a direct hit. As we all watched the situation unfolding in Afghanistan, especially so close to the anniversary of Josh's death, I just really couldn't help but think of you and your family. I know it's difficult for a lot of people to process, Afghanistan veterans in particular, other generations of veterans as well, but as they come to grips with the people that they've lost and the contributions that they have made and what that means in the scope of this entire war. But watching this, how do you view Josh's service in the context of what's happened in Afghanistan and in the context really of this entire 20-year conflict since 9-11? The reality is that as Marines, we don't get to select our wars, we don't get to criticize orders, we don't get to scrutinize orders or campaigns or whatever is coming down from wherever it's coming down from. Basically, you get what you get. If you're going to go back and you're going to complain, you complain to somebody that you can use as a sounding board who's probably thinking the same thing you are, but the reality is you go out and you do your mission. It's as simple as that and you do your mission to understanding that there could be a heavy toll. If you're wise enough, you're also doing an understanding that could be for not. So my guidance to the guys was, look, you're right, this thing was lost, but it wasn't lost today. It was lost 12 years ago. It was a determination made to not win that whatever it is that they're struggling with is not on them. Because that's where most of this comes from. Survivors guilt or Jesus might have only made one step further or made a different decision, so on and so would still be here. You can't do that to yourself. If you're going to do that, I guess you'll spend a whole life doing that because life is filled with those those experiences or trying to tell them, don't do that. Don't take responsibility for the things that are not yours to carry. And the reality is this, every human being that's ever been born and ever will be born is going to die. We don't know what that's going to look like or when, you know, but to say that my son at 22 was robbed of his entire life, it's kind of the wrong way of looking at it. He lived his entire life. His entire life was 22 years. He thought what we would have wanted, but that was his entire life. And he lived it, and he lived it well. So the Marines from his unit, clearly family and friends, probably folks from his hometown, they hold Josh's memory very close to their hearts. How do you and your family honor Josh, and what do you hope that his legacy is from those 22 years? Well, his legacy is in fact, the way those people remember him and the high regard that they they hope, you know, they keep the way they regard him. So and then every every time you get a note, I mean, that's that's his legacy. It's almost like a living legacy. You know, I mean, I got I wish you could see it. I've got a bust over here that a marine friend of mine in Florida, that's what he does. He does bust of guys that have been killed. And he and I met based on that he wanted to do a bust of Josh and we actually met in Virginia and picked up the bust from him, you know, that's that's what he does. You know, there are paintings all over the place of people that have done everything from charcoal hand, you know, drawings to more elaborate paintings to just all sorts of things. Somebody ran the the Marine Corps marathon. And then actually put everything related to that for that run, including the T shirt he had made into a sort of a shadow box and presented that to us, you know, the Marshall service was so taken with the fact that Josh said he'd like to be a Marshall. They made him an honorary Marshall, which they do quite clear that we've only done this just just a handful of times in the whole history of the Marshall service. You know, so it's not those things. But it's the impression that that created those things. So that's his legacy. From our standpoint, his family, you know, knowing Josh, the best way that we can honor him is to keep him normal. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but we don't have to, you know, run up and down the street with banners and and plaques and things like that. And say, you know, Joshua Bernard lives here and, you know, this is the car that Josh drove in and whatever. We live with his memory all the time. Whenever these conversations come up, this ample opportunity to talk about it. But he was a pretty quiet kid. And he would be shaking his head. I'm sure every single time there was a discussion about him, especially with anybody speaking of him in grander terms, he would just be like, you guys talking about, you know, that he was not, there was no element of him that was looking or even even considered himself like that. So he would be very shy, you know, so we honor his memory by living.