 COVID, of course, is terrible for our society, but at the same time in every crisis there is also opportunities. Welcome to World Versus Virus, a podcast from the World Economic Forum that aims to make sense of the COVID-19 outbreak. This week, Formula One Motor Racing champion turned green entrepreneur Nico Rosberg on how high-tech innovations can help us rebuild out of the pandemic. COVID has really reminded us about the fragility of our society and about the fragility of our planet as well. This is an opportunity to not only improve our resilience to such viruses and pandemics in the future, but to also focus even more on preserving our environment. An investor in more than 20 startups and the co-founder of the Green Tech Festival now in its second year, Nico Rosberg sets out his vision of sustainable mobility in a post-COVID world. He says why he'll be travelling by electric air taxi in a year or two, and reveals why he stopped playing motor racing simulator games during lockdown. These gamers, their level of performance is off the charts. I was one and a half seconds off per lap from the gamers. So huge respect and it's their fault that I've now stopped driving the simulator. Subscribe to World Versus Virus on Apple SoundCloud, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robin Pomeroy, digital editor at the World Economic Forum and this is World Versus Virus. When Nico Rosberg won the Formula One World Championship in 2016, he retired from motor racing. His decision at the age of just 31 stunned the sporting world, but his logic was clear. At the top of his powers, he had achieved his goal. So what next? Rosberg reinvented himself as an eco-entrepreneur, investing in high-tech green startups that he hopes can help save the planet. He also co-founded the Green Tech Festival last year, a trade show for like-minded innovators. I wanted to talk to Nico Rosberg about the pandemic and the post-COVID economic restructuring, what we're now calling the Great Reset, and the risks and opportunities for green business. I caught up with him during the height of lockdown where he was isolating with his wife and two young children. I'm joined by Nico Rosberg, who's in Germany at the moment. Hello, Nico, how are you? Hi, I'm very, very good. Actually, I'm not in Germany. I'm in Ibiza in our house here, which is really a privileged situation to be in. You're famous as a racing driver, but you've also, as well as your passion for racing fast cars, you have a passion for sustainable investment, sustainable entrepreneurship. Can you tell us one or two of the things you've been doing since your racing career finished? My Lighthouse project, actually at the moment, has been founding the Green Tech Festival in Berlin. And in its first year last year, we had 40,000 participants come. It's really a platform where all the leading figures in green technology businesses and also the green technologies, the greatest innovations themselves, come together. The purpose really is to have impact, of course, to create solutions, to create networking opportunities, to have impact. And so it's a little bit like the WEF in smaller and more focused on green technologies and that I'm very, very proud of. As you know, from the WEF, being in the event business is not the best place to be in during COVID. And so we've had our fair share of challenges as well. However, we've had so much support from all of our major partners, and I'm very, very thankful for that. And now we're full speed ahead for an event in autumn, and we're going hybrid. So we're going to have the usual conference, the usual green awards with, of course, less people, but we're accelerating our virtual component and our virtual dimension. And that's going to be, I'm sure, spectacular. I really look forward to it. There's going to be webinars, masterclasses, keynotes, and it was always our plan. So COVID was an opportunity for us to accelerate this virtual component. And I think in the virtual world also, that's where the real power is to reach even more people. And to have impact in preserving the environment, you have to reach as many people as possible. And particularly also the people in the developing countries, because that's where the biggest impact could be had. Yeah, so tell us something about how the pandemic is affecting that. COVID, of course, is terrible for our society. We all know that, and so many people suffering. So I'm well aware of that. But at the same time, of course, in every crisis, there's also opportunities. And I think COVID has really reminded us about the fragility of our society, and in turn maybe even has reminded us about the fragility of our planet as well. And so for me, I really believe that this is an opportunity which we're all going to take to not only improve our resilience to such viruses and pandemics in the future, but to also focus even more on preserving our environment. And we can see this now already happening. I mean, we've seen the Green Deal and the Recovery Fund that's associated to that. One fourth of the Recovery Fund is going straight into Green Initiatives. And there's a clause in the entire Recovery Fund, which means that no money can go to a project or business or whatever that is clearly detrimental to the environment in the medium term. And I think that's incredible parameters that we're seeing added to this funding that is there to actually help the COVID situation. And we have some really leading examples as well. And I would like to take France and Air France, where the government has come in to save our France, but they've made it clear that there's like really green conditions to their saving of the business. They must invest in the newest technology in the next coming years, and even they must give up some of their short travel distances to the railway, which is much more emission free, of course. So there's really like, I think some fantastic initiatives there that are being put forth. The fund you're talking about there, that's the European Union. Yes. You come across lots of innovations, sustainable ideas for business. Mobility and transport are very close to your heart. Are there any particular innovative ideas that you've seen that have surprised you and you've thought, actually, they've really got something here. This could really change the world or change the way we do things. As you know, I'm very, very active in the mobility startup world, having more than 20 investments by now. And one of the ones I'm most proud of is Lilium, which is one of the two or three leading vital startup companies in the world. And what they're doing, so they've developed a jet that has many, many small electric turbines driven by battery power, of course, takes off vertically and then can turn into a plane. So it can go up to 300 kilometers an hour. Huge benefits because it can cover the short distance without any negatives, and it can cover the long range as well. And this, especially once it goes autonomous, it's really going to democratize these kind of flying taxis, and it's going to open up so much positive opportunities. It's going to decongest the cities. It's going to allow people to commute from outside of cities in a very, very enjoyable way, very quickly as well, and very cheaply. And so that's a fantastic innovation that I'm so looking forward to. Unfortunately, it's still going to take a couple of years. That's the kind of thing people have been talking about for decades, and it's always seemed a bit science fiction-y, and it still does in a way. Any idea when a city will be able to have that? I mean, when will I be able to get into my air taxi, do you think? Volocopter, which is another investment, actually of mine, is another vital in Germany, and they are leading the way in terms of timeline, and they're actually looking for 2021 or 2022 at the latest to start doing their first commercial flights. And cities like Singapore are most advanced there, possibly also Dubai, and so it's really, it's around the corner now. It's very, very close. Of course, in the beginning, they won't be autonomous. They'll still be the pilot inside. And for the business model, the autonomy is quite important for the economy, economics, but also for the safety in the end. Autonomy is going to be fantastic, so I'm looking forward to that so much, and I hope to be able to do one of the first flights as well. When it comes to transport and mobility, what is the biggest challenge to making it sustainable? Is it the fuel? Is it the vehicles themselves, or is it the way that transport systems organize? What is the main challenge that we have to solve? Yeah, let's talk about fuel. Fuel is a big, big issue, and I think the solution there has to be synthetic fuel or biofuels. We know that, and it's being looked at, but somehow the air transport industry is, I don't know, it's a bit slow. I wish they were a bit faster in that, and I believe that in the end it's down to the government to set tighter restrictions there and tighter targets for the air travel industry to reach. Just as Air France has now been set by the government, that global governments also go that path. I think that's gonna be quite crucial. And possibly, I was at the WEF in January, and there was the first initial talks about between the WEF and Formula One, where the WEF was saying, hey, F1, you're looking at synthetic fuels in five years' time, why not try and pull that earlier, and we try and support you. So the WEF supports Formula One to try and make F1 the synthetic fuel development grounds. And I think that would be so awesome and such a great opportunity for F1 to maybe have an incredible impact on the whole transport industry and on preserving the environment if the synthetic fuels really managed to successfully get delivered and produced or researched and development done in Formula One. So do you see the future in terms of transport fuel as biofuels and synthetic fuels rather than electricity and potentially hydrogen? Well, there's different forms of transport that will have different opportunities. Air transport, for the foreseeable future for the next decades, it's unlikely to be able to do anything apart from fuels, just because of the energy density that we have there. So that's unfortunately a big, big problem, and therefore synthetic fuels is the biggest opportunity there. Then if you look at long distance transport, of course there you would look at the hydrogen approach. But of course in hydrogen, the actual production of hydrogen is so environmentally polluting. So that's the biggest problem there. So you need to make sure that it's produced using renewable energies at source and that the transportation method then also is powered by renewable energy. So that's a big, big challenge there still, but there's first a project popping up now left, right and center. So that's going to be good for the long distance travel and then of course the shorter distance travel is all going to be battery technology in the short term and that's in cars, buses, for the short distance for the city mobility. And then of course you go all the way down to e-scooters, which I think as well has been a great innovation, this whole e-scooter movement. So you mentioned that Formula One is being encouraged to develop and it already is a synthetic fuels, but it's also there's electric Formula One, right? So, well, these two things run side by side. So the electric Formula One is called Formula E and actually I'm a shareholder of the championship since the early days as well. Very proudly so because it's been a big success so far and I don't see them in competition. Formula One remains the pinnacle of motorsport. It's the gladiators fighting it out. It's absolute thrilling excitement, entertainment, high tech technology and that's gonna remain the case. And then you have Formula E, which is it's a different approach. It's the future of mobility. It's electric, it's the developing platform for all the car manufacturers to develop their electric motors, which that as such is very special because the race to road transfer of technology is really second to none in Formula E. Literally the electric motors that the manufacturers are developing for their Formula E race cars will end up in our electric cars two, three years down the road. That's very, very special. And then Formula E also is of course, it's showcasing the vision of the future. It's bringing electric cars and electric racing to the city centers, making it very approachable for families to see. It has no noise. So you see families with their babies coming there to the racetrack. So it's very different positioning and I think both have their place and for a long, long time. From the outside Formula One doesn't seem the greenest sport in the world. It's petrol heads. It's loud engines. Do you think that's just a public misconception that actually Formula One because of all the innovation it's doing can be seen as quite a center of sustainable investment? Or do you think Formula One itself, that whole industry has shifted fairly rapidly in that direction in recent years? So that conception is not fair. Formula One is very, very conscious of sustainability. And let's go into the engine itself. The Formula One engine, the hybrid that they have with a tiny turbo engine, quite possibly is the most sustainable engine that we have at the moment in the world of mobility. And particularly it's more sustainable than electric cars. And that's an interesting one. So the Formula One engine is more sustainable than electric cars if you look at a case like Germany. And the reason is because in Germany you have more than 50% of the electric cars being powered by coal energy. And that means that only after 100,000 kilometers is the electric car in Germany actually more sustainable than a combustion engine. But that's a normal combustion engine and not the high efficiency Formula One combustion engine hybrid. Formula One has now stated that they're going emission free as a sport by 2030, which considering the whole logistical background to the sport, that's gonna be a huge challenge because most of the emissions come from the logistics. So also there it's gonna be down to synthetic fuels as an opportunity certainly to reduce the emissions from the whole logistical traveling and everything. Can we talk a bit about public attitudes and how they may have changed particularly with the pandemic? Because you mentioned that for example, for air transport it's gonna take government regulation to push companies to make the necessary changes. But governments and politicians to make those decisions it means the voters have to be pushing the politicians to do it. Do you think the lockdown with cleaner air, emptier streets has nudged parts of public opinion or do you think we were already, I guess maybe in Europe I don't know if you can speak about other parts of the world were already taking very seriously the ideas of climate change, pollution congestion. That's a very, very good point. So it's so important for us to manage to also shift the consumer mindset. And this applies to so many industries but particularly also the mobility industry. And there's been a recent survey in Germany which really shows how so many people wish to keep the situation on their streets the way it was during COVID. So more quiet, less congested, less polluting. It was a very, very clear trend and much more clear than before coronavirus. And so again there I think for the consumer mindset Corona has been an opportunity. And it's an opportunity for them because the problem is it's really a chicken and egg situation. The consumers have to embrace the electric mobility in order to increase the demand, in order to increase the supply, in order to drive the price down because at the moment the price is still too high. The price point is too high. And that's a huge hurdle for consumers because where the electric mobility is really gonna take off is if the price point is at least the same or less than a combustion engine. And we're getting there but we also need that shift in the consumer mindset. That's very, very important. And maybe the governments can do a little bit more there also in that sense. And creates the more marketing, raising awareness campaigns. And finally we need subsidies. I mean there has to be subsidies for immobility. And there's, it's a challenge for the government because we've just seen in Germany that yes they did some subsidies for immobility but they did the same subsidies for combustion engines. And so that's a, it's a difficult one because you always have to weigh up the economy versus going greener. You know it's a tough one. As we start to rebuild the global economy what are the first big changes you'd like to see? I think it's really important to also build out the whole public transport system because that's a system that is, it's the easiest to make that emission free in the short term. And so I think that's a big opportunity and again we're seeing that in Germany where that's the plan. I mean the government is now just, is now supporting the railway system with seven billion, seven billion euros. And after that there's gonna be even more required to extend the whole infrastructure. And that's gonna be, I think that's gonna be crucial because we need to start reducing our air travel. And again also there I believe we're all becoming more conscious of that. I myself, I kind of, I don't feel like I wanna reduce those flights now. Even more than before. So this again has come via COVID and I will be using the German train system even more. So I think that's one important thing. And then all these individual immobility services. So you have like the e-scooters. That's a perfect example which I think in cities is gonna grow more and more. And it's a great opportunity. Even with the pandemic now you might prefer to travel on your own. So e-scooters are gonna get a huge boost. You've just given me my headline, you know a Formula One driver, big fan of scooters. So can we just talk about how it's been to view personally in lockdown? I've seen videos of you playing e-sports. We did a podcast recently about e-sports and how, because there's no real sport going on a lot of people are turning increasingly to e-sports. And I just wonder how similar it is to drive a virtual racing car to drive an actual Formula One car which is very high tech itself. What are the similarities, what are the differences? And is it any fun for someone like you? Yeah, I did many interesting things during lockdown. One of the things was to take part in an e-sports race for Formula One. But that was just a bit of fun and it's very, very challenging. It's a whole different world. And you see that these gamers, I mean their level of performance is off the charts. I was practicing quite a lot and I was still like one and a half seconds off per lap from the gamers. So huge respect. And it's their fault that I've now stopped driving the simulator because I just see it as hopeless to become the best. And I don't like it if I don't have any opportunities to become the best. But more importantly, I'm a big fan of the sustainable development goals. And so during lockdown, human well-being is something that's very close to and very dear to me. And during lockdown, I did many initiatives to try and help people with their well-being globally across my social media channels. So I had this challenge called one a week, hashtag one a week. And in there I was doing meditation challenge. I was learning an instrument. I was reading books and all these things because progress and growth is one of the key ingredients for us as humans to be happy. And I was really trying to motivate people to join me on that journey. And that was something that was really wonderful for myself, but also for everybody who was following me for my friends during lockdown. And I'm thankful because I learned to play let it be on the guitar. Can you say? No, but I will take a singing teacher soon because that's one of my childhood dreams to be able to play the guitar, let it be and sing properly. So this is gonna be a next challenge coming up. Nico Rosberg, thanks for joining us on the podcast. It's an honor to be on the WEF podcast as a young global leader of the community. Nico Rosberg, as he mentioned there is a World Economic Forum young global leader. That's a community of people around the world who are using their prominent positions to make the world a better place. Find out more at www.younggloballeaders.org. And if you want to hear more about the great reset, the forums drive to help build back better after COVID-19, there's another podcast that might interest you. Here's a taste of the latest episode featuring former US Secretary of State, John Kerry. We're a long way off from being able to go back to any kind of normal. And the normal was a crisis. The normal was itself not working. The great reset is a new podcast from the World Economic Forum that looks at how we can rebuild a clean affair as smart as well after COVID-19. In the latest episode, former US Secretary of State, John Kerry, says we can't go back to the bad old ways. It's not that we don't have the capacity. We just don't have the will. We'll have to exceed what we did in the Sputnick years, the space race, military race. The forum brought together experts from around the globe to look at how to rebuild the social contract in a world where millions have lost their jobs and faith in democracy is under pressure. We're having to reinvent the workplace. And those most excited about that change are actually the women. The great reset from the World Economic Forum. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And you can find all of our coverage of COVID-19 at wefrom.org and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, YouTube and on Twitter using the handle at wef. Thanks to Gareth Nolan for help producing this week's podcast. Please subscribe to receive it every week. Just search world versus virus on Apple, SoundCloud, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. See you next week.