 We're going to try to nourish both your mind and your body over this lunch. So we are going to have a panel during lunch Please feel free to continue to eat. I just asked you to save some dessert for the rest of us here on the dais if you don't mind so my name is Chris Colabia and I'm from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and So pleased to welcome you to this luncheon to talk about central banks and innovation And I'm very happy that we have two experts on the subject here to join me today for this discussion on the dais Allow me to introduce first deputy governor Aisha Ahmad the financial stability section at the central bank of Nigeria sitting to my immediate left The deputy governor is a member of the monetary policy committee as well as the committee of governors at the central bank there and her primary Responsibility is for financial policy as well as the regulation of the banking and the payment systems She chairs the national payment switch as well as the financial inclusion Techno technical committee and if you were here yesterday for Mary Ellen Iskandarian's keynote speech you saw the deputy governor in a video in her prior life in the private sector when she was an executive director at Diamond Bank one of Nigeria's largest banks and one of the banks that worked with world's women's world banking on the beta savings project savings product and The deputy governor has over 20 years of private sector experience in financial services. So welcome deputy governor to Ann Arbor Sitting to the state my left at your right is Leonardo Gamba Corta who is the head of innovation and the digital economy unit at the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland If you're not familiar with the BIS the BIS is a bit like a central bank for central banks in a way He is an economist by training and Leonardo serves as the head of monetary policy served as head of monetary policy at the BIS As well as the head of money and credit union credit unit and the head of the banking sector unit in the research section At the Bank of Italy in Rome and his primary research interests include monetary transmission mechanisms effectiveness of macroprudential policies on systemic risk and the effects of technological innovation on financial intermediation Which is his main area focused currently in his new role at the BIS? And I'm Chris Colabia from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation as I mentioned and at the Gates Foundation We believe that every person deserves the chance to lead a healthy and productive life And so you're probably very familiar with the Gates Foundation's work in health Medicines vaccinations and education and so on but we also have a focus on financial inclusion Because a good body of research suggests that when people who are unbanked or poor and marginalized groups and women When they have access to accounts and especially digital financial services accounts they're better able to lift themselves out of poverty by improving their ability to save To borrow and to make payments and to invest in their futures And so that's why we care about financial inclusion and I'm very happy to partner with the University of Michigan on this important project I'm also recovering regulator and central banker myself. I have to say I worked for 25 years for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York In the supervision section there and also spent two years at the BIS as well working for the standard setting body for bank supervisors called the Basel committee on banking supervision and so I should stress that in any comments or opinions that I may share today are my own and Do not necessarily reflect those of the Gates Foundation or frankly anyone else who matters So I'd really like to thank Michael Barr, Adrian Harris Chrissy Bear, Kelly Brown, Tracy Van Dusen, Ashton Ashton Smith, as well as the large number of RAs and staff here at the University Sam, Jesse, Sean, Jay, Jennifer, Lucas, Cole and Nick for putting on such a wonderful conference I hope you might join me in a round of applause for them to thank them for all their hard work to make this So we're going to talk today about innovation and in particular the role that central banks have in responding to that innovation in the marketplace and Leonardo at the BIS you and your colleagues are have been monitoring and reporting on the emergence of some disruptive technologies in the marketplace And some new service providers in the financial services spaces I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how these new players Have expanded into the provision of financial service Financial services, and I know that you have some slides you'd like to share with us on this question Yes, I have. First of all, thank you Chris. Thanks to all the organizer for Inviting me to this panel. It's a great pleasure and honor I have prepared some slides to introduce the topic of big tech in finance and these slides are Are based on some research that we have conducted at the BIS and they are summarized in in a chapter of our annual economic report Obviously the usual disclaimer applies So We know that technology firms We have in mind Alibaba, Amazon, Google, Facebook, Tencent, the ones that are on the left side of our on these of this slide So-called big techs have grown rapidly in the last decade and they have started to do some roads into into finance So These these firms are are very big. This is the name big tech and indeed they have a level of market Capitalization that is higher than those of the GCBs The one that are the the biggest financial institution in in in the world So why technology firms venture into finance and they basically they have the so-called DNA so it's a data network externalities and activities that is a sort of a feedback loop that allow them to have a lot of synergies You can think about a payment firm having a lot of data Creating network externalities developing in the platform new activities and these activities would bring new data So it's sort of a reinforcing loop indeed The first fact that I want to mention to you is that big tech Have a portion of their revenues that derive from financial services, but at the moment that is part that you can see in on the left side of this slide is still Relatively small is it it is something like 11 11 percent of the total revenues while their core business is still in information technology and consulting the cloud computing data analytics that represent around 46 percent of total revenues We know that big techs they serve globally, but when we look at the At the big tech subsidiaries that is on the right hand side of this slide We can see that their operation are mainly located in North America and in Asia Pacific but They have moved the quite extensively in China as we know with the tents and and and financial But still they're developing also expanding rapidly in emerging market economies in areas That are Southeast Asia East Africa and Latin America. So the second fact is that The the development of of big tech financial services Follows a very precise pattern. So For example payment services where the first financial service that big tech offer and the example that we have in mind are typically Ali pay of the group Alibaba and PayPal for free Bay and these are Financial services that are fully integrated into the e-commerce platform the the development of big tech payment service is Is higher in those countries that had less financial developed credit card payment and Indeed they benefit from the fact that in in in a lot of countries There is a high fraction of the population that use mobile phone So this could explain for example why China as an outstanding level of of Big tech payment over GDP says 16 percent with respect to very low level in the United States India Brazil Indonesia and United Kingdom for the combination of these two factor So as a sort of a Prolongation of the story so after payment service big tech started to offer via their Application also other products and these are typically well management products and such as a money market funds So in these lights, I just represent One the composition of One very important money market fund because it's the biggest in the world you bow from That is offered by the Ali pay group and I want to show some interesting facts On the on the left hand side you can see that the composition of the asset of you bow Are mainly in bank deposits so 60 percent of the asset of you bow are in bank deposit and in terms of the maturity of you bow asset on the right hand side you can see that Around half of the asset of a maturity of less than 30 days. So what does he mean this is a first of all? Is that there is a relation relationship between between a big tech and banks that is quite that is quite complex So and then these also reflects also potential financial stability concern because Imagine a run on on the money market fund that is composed of Bank deposit short term these obviously will create some difficulties also for bank fund So the the last fact I want to show you is that big tech credit Is is also offered by by by these large technology technology firms But it is a small with respect to To other forms of financing if you think about the the new FinTech credit in 2017 this represented the 0.5 percent of total outstanding credit in the world and even in China China is the vanguard of for the offering of this product. This is only 3 percent Some studies conducted at the BAS show that there is a negative correlation between the level of financial development of a country and The level of big tech credit you can see this from the left-hand side Part of this graph where you have on the horizontal line the fraction of a number of the number of branches per other population and on the vertical axis you have the ratio the logarithm of the ratio between big tech credit and total credit but also there is one final consideration I want to do is that Yes, big tech credit is small, but it's very different. It's very different from bank loans and you can see this from these Red-hand side where with some colleagues in China, Yiping Wang and Anqiu Using an un-financial data. We have tried to understand the correlation of credit with respect to asset price and we have seen that while traditional bank loans are Correlated with asset price and this is the basis of in the model what we have in the financial accelerator mechanism Big tech credit is not is not correlated. It's more correlated with the business cycle So this changed completely the monetary transmission mechanism and the way central banks should factor in the development of Big tech credit. In this final slide I just report some Additional studies that have been conducted at BAS if you want to develop further some of these points So Leonardo, that's a fascinating overview and I commend the paper to the audience's reading later It's a great paper looking at big tech and these very large firms getting into financial services Can you tell us a little bit about maybe some of the benefits that they might bring as well as some of the drawbacks? You mentioned the monetary policy challenge as being maybe one of the drawbacks But are there additional things that we should think about as regulators and supervisors? It's a it's a very it's a very interesting question that I will try to develop just Making one example that is the one for the the market for credit. So first of all The the benefit and the cost of big tech in finance derive from the DNA So these data network activity feedback loop creates a lot of potential and benefit in terms of financial inclusion But also a lot of risk So let me start with the potential in having as an example the credit market. So In terms of provision of credit there is There are benefits coming from the screening activity and The enlargement of the provision of credit to the financially excluded. So there is already leach at showing that the use of machine learning and big data for credit scoring allows to the big tech to serve credit to a Lot of segment of the population that are financially excluded and this is clear with the experience of and econometric analysis that we have conducted for China and and and Argentina with Mercado Libre other potential benefit are derived from the fact that There is no need for collateral. So what we say is that in a way data substitutes collateral and this is also Producing a positive effect in terms of financial inclusion But as I mentioned there are also some potential cost that derive from from the data from the use of the data and these are basically two first is a potential Effects derived from market power and the second one is about the misuse of data. So market power It is clear. So big tech they can became dominant player and Basically, they can consolidate their position by raising a bar is to entry or they can simply exclude other firms from The provision there or their services in in their platform that they can just simply offer their own their own products And the misuse of data there are there are also some studies that show that it could be that As big tech are very are very smart in price discrimination and in rent extraction This could be not beneficial for consumer and there is a debate in terms of how to Educate these consumer surplus and also potential Negative effect could be derived from the fact that if the algorithm that they use are particularly Smart and in detecting the risk some part of the population that are risky That they should be for example insured that they could be excluded although also some form of discrimination in terms of Minority think about I don't know there is a paper that showed that the black and Hispanic in the in the US that could be See could have less Potential benefit that other categories. So at the end in terms of public policy I think that big technology firm brings a bring a a lot of potential benefit but these are have to be Evaluating in terms of also the cost so at the end it's it's a public choice Yes, and it's a choice of society societies could have different preferences It's also different depending on their different level of financial development. Yes Well having read your paper and heard your remarks today It feels to me like this is maybe just the beginning of the chapter of big techs and finance that as you said their credit extensions Are rather low, but that said Facebook has 2.7 billion customers Gmail has 1.5 billion users I mean these are larger than most countries And so they have a tremendous base to expand to if they choose to do that And so we'll need to think carefully about those subjects. So thank you very much for that overview Leonardo Deputy governor mod, could you share some of the perspectives perhaps as a central banker and supervisor? Working in a dynamic and vibrant market like Nigeria, which has a very young population growing quickly What types of products and services and providers are you seeing that are disruptive? And how do you think about those as a central banker and supervisor? Okay Thank you. Can you all hear me? Okay, so I think we're seeing disruption across the value chain of financial services in Nigeria I know that when people talk about tech data innovation digital innovation People tend to look at that as disrupting what the traditional banks are doing But interestingly Nigeria and I'll use Nigeria a lot because that's the jurisdiction that I come from We find that we see this happening even within traditional banking services where banks are deploying AI based solutions For convenience of customers. They're using it for their credit scoring They're using chatbots increasingly it's sort of in terms of driving product development product design within the banking sector and Then some of these technologies as well the FinTechs Partnering with the banks and are providing these as value added services for the banking system Because I think it's really important to situate that there as well to say that this disruption is not just Expanding the number of players is also changing what we see within the banking sector We think that as regulators we're always looking at how we can bring the cost of Financial services down to reduce the cost and we see technology innovation new channels of delivery Reducing cash and the cost of cash as a huge opportunity that we can leverage Having said that we're seeing disruption in savings for example new savings apps that is helping to bring Beyond typical savings government savings people that want to invest in government Treasuries can now do it via their mobile phone in the past this used to be reserved for The high net worth individuals that have access to large private banks We're seeing happily disruption in the micro lending area Where you have some companies providing micro loans to often people that ordinarily would not Qualify for a loan within a sort of typical bank But I think one of these the biggest disruptions we've seen is in the payment system itself Enabling merchants to collect You know payment for goods and services you talked about Nigeria about 200 million people Youth so 60% of that is people under the age of 35 a lot of creativity in there a lot of The informal side is pretty big But it's also increasingly bringing up these new entrepreneurs that are leapfrogging your typical opener store It's like I have an idea I go on to Instagram I sell I collect somebody needs to give me a solution For that and Instagram is across borders. You know, it's Nigeria. It's Kenya. It's Egypt. It's the UK I have to deliver I have to collect payment you come to talk about the arrangements around regional payments and international payments, so We see FinTech entering the merchant acquiring space a lot we see them providing solutions that I've spoken to and Of course the opportunity so in terms of how we see it as regulators I've said one part of it We like it because if it brings down the cost of providing services all well and good The data helps us to make better decisions even for the banks, you know, and when we talked about financial health today And if you want central banks to to to measure We're gonna need that data Of course the opportunities where financial inclusion sort of concerned the results speak for themselves today Nigeria 63% Is our financial inclusion number and a lot of that has happened in the last seven years We've seen astronomical astronomical increases in Instant payments POS use reduction in check use, you know e transactions Digital government Digitizing their collections and we've seen all of that so those are the good benefits and of course It's also a huge opportunity for a regulator to expand their Sort of coverage in terms of the types of organizations you supervise Sometimes you also talk about that as a problem But it's actually an opportunity to be able to see more come out of the shadow banking space Where you had no visibility to see these new companies emerge the risks apart from the cyber's risk that I think Is powerful cause when it comes to technology? So let's pack that for a regulator you're thinking about the fragmentation of the number of You know organizations They have some of them are banks some of them are not banks some of them are tech companies There was an earlier conversation about what regulators should be doing to collaborate to the telco regulator be collaborating For instance with the banking regulator So there's that fragmentation. You have to consider borders, you know If you're serving Nigerian Customers, but you're not registered in Nigeria. How do I sort of? Ensure that consumers are protected their data is protected So new questions about cross-border collaboration sort of in that respect proportionality Regulation under regulation if you talk to a typical bank, they will tell you that the fintechs are not Regulated properly they feel over-regulated and they think you're giving these guys a free pass Should you use the same? RIS based regulatory Supervisory framework for these companies or should you come up with something? Different so for us these are questions that we need to answer as the market evolves I love the earlier conversation about control versus innovation and those trade-offs and I think there's no simple answer we would keep having to make those trade-offs as It works for the jurisdiction What I would favor is a nuanced approach an Inclusive approach and I think that the the fact that many central banks and emerging markets are doing sandboxes Should give us comfort that they're willing to give these Companies sort of a playing grounds where we can just observe In an environment of trust because they also have to believe that if they come out so to speak you won't be using the knowledge you have of the operations to Should I say? Make it difficult for them to innovate. I think one other thing I didn't mention is that usually when it comes to innovation The companies are young They're creative and operational risk is not exactly what's on their mind when they start or is our money wandering or that? I guess or MLCFT and that is what you'd expect of bags and banks have frankly come a long way You know, they probably didn't start this way. They've had years and years sort of of that So from regulators perspective we welcome this for all of the good things You can do for us on financial inclusion reducing the cost improving access all the problems around ID You know and all those barriers or address verification if technology can do this for us Yes, but then we need to then balance with all of these other considerations Yes Well, thank you for that wonderful overview of the various trends taking place in Nigeria But you're also reflecting on some trends that although you mentioned they are these are largely your experience Their experience is in other countries as well And in particular I wanted to call at one point that you mentioned and that is that the cost savings that technology is driving Saving money on these transactions is not just an efficiency thing It actually is a powerful driver for inclusion Because if you look at the legacy banking model you bricks and mortar barrenches and agencies and so on It's very expensive to build a brick and mortar banking network But we have found and some of the research we've sponsored has found that when you move to digital financial services You can cut costs by 90% and that means suddenly you can serve a much larger population than you could serve before It's much more profitable to serve people who live in rural areas and remote areas where you would never go and provide a branch But I wanted to pick up on your point about innovation and the new kinds of companies coming into the space And also the impact that they're having on the legacy companies So Nigeria has a very interesting new banking license that's been introduced And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about this payment service bank and what drove that decision Yes, well, it's not new I have to say because there's a lot of excitement because I think we've been waiting for Nigeria to make It's to decide how it's gonna go where sort of this big idea about bringing in new players You know and what it does for you know expanding inclusion So the payment service bank is our way of bringing in more participants Everybody focuses on the telcos because it allows the telcos in but it's actually beyond the telcos It's looking at anyone that has a channel that can be leveraged to Creates more access. So it's the supermarkets. It's the retailer the big retailers It's the mobile money companies which in Nigeria usually have spent the last Since we licensed them about 10 years ago building these agent netcos So if anyone that has a network that can be leveraged to get more people access When we're talking about cost one thing I forgot to mention was that increasingly we see banks Instead of expanding their ATM Sort of structure what they're doing is expanding POS using agents because it's cheaper and the technology is nimble It's easier to sort of maneuver and deliver the service So the thinking behind the PSB even though you have about 63% Inclusion our target is 80% by next year. You still have a huge because of the huge population You still have huge opportunities in the excluded and what we're trying to do is to get more people Access now we'll be licensing all sorts of institutions. We have microfinance banks for instance as well We have switching companies. We have payment terminal solution providers We have all of these sort of regulations that have enabled new players come in but one thing we have found is that the pattern of Provision still usually revolves around the urban areas. It's usually Concentrated in certain areas One of the problems we're trying to solve with the PSB license because if you look at the way the guidelines have been put It's supposed to be technology driven. It's supposed to bring in more participants. It's supposed to be Focused on 50% of so if they're going to build any physical structures We want that 50% of that should be in rural areas Underbanked areas underserved areas. So it's it's specifically focusing on this Exclusion problem in terms of access and to track and to monitor how well we're doing We're just completing our financial access maps that it's going to be an interactive map That will show You know Broadly speaking what the opportunities are in terms of financial access where we have our banks where we have ATMs Where we have agents where we have PSB's where we hand, you know Another thing about the PSB that I think is critical for us to know is that the telcos come with this Established agent network that they've been using to deploy value-added services Now these are potential points we can use to expand our ID system for instance when we have the ID system We came up with the bank refrigeration number a few years ago We have 40 million endurance on that and we're looking to expand that across the population now imagine if you had 200,000 300,000 more points where people can go and sort of register and all that it totally opens up The opportunities for those that are excluded We looked at the India model payment bank model Well, one of the things we liked about that was the fact that you know the payment banks in India are focused only on deposit mobilization at least for now I Think they have a 25% sort of focus on the rural areas. We have a 50 some of the additional things reporting apart from increasing the sort of Minimums we want in terms of rural areas is that we thought it was also important What you were talking about Leonardo about market power and the the fact that if you have If a payment service bank has Apparent that Controls some services across the chain you want to ensure that it is providing the same level of service across the entire Participants in the market the last thing you want is for some Participants to get sort of better pricing or better service and you know so and the the guidelines sort of try to Sort of address great level of that. It's your early days. We've just given approvals in principle But we're very excited about the potential Given what we already know about the the channels, you know that these organizations bring and the variety that these Organizations, yes, well, thank you for the very detailed view into Nigeria and what's going on there Leonardo, perhaps you could help us look at the global perspective and think a little bit about some of the public policy Challenges that we're facing now as regulators and how is the BIS thinking about some of these issues at a global level? Well We we consider them We consider financial in financial innovation at the at the center of our medium term strategy so indeed that there is The BIS 2025 innovation strategy that really reflects so a commitment of of the BIS to embrace Continuous innovation to prepare the BIS itself for the change of Tomorrow, so we we were doing this in two in two fronts one is to be Innovative in what we provide for the central bank community and sample is as to support the central banks that are doing very good things as in the case of the central bank of Nigeria the other is to Innovate ourselves in terms of how we operate as an institution so we see these Internally as a big change indeed the one element of our strategies that the creation of the BIS innovation up and these will have Three main goals so the first one is to identify and develop in in Critical trends in financial technology that are of relevance of central banks. The second goal is to develop Public goods in the technology space That are geared towards the the improving of the financial the financial system And the global globally to produce efficiency and then to serve as a focal point for a network of central bank expert on innovation so as The as we know the IT revolution No snowboarder it will be located in different parts of the globe it would be in multiple locations in Hong Kong Singapore and Basel Zurich Another initiative is to foster policy oriented research that could try to answer some of these relevant policy question and And indeed the creation of the unit I'm leading the innovation digital economy unit Respond to these to this need and we have a number of projects that are currently In development in areas such as well one is a big tech in finance and the impact in terms of Competition the second one is tokenization of assets Central band digital currency global stable coin how these will impact in in the future the monetary system third area is more in general how financial innovation could impact on the macroeconomy and the conduct of monetary policy and the last one is Pointed it was also mentioned this morning many times into the panel is the role of reg tech Soup tech and gov tech and in particular one example is how to study the firms that take part to a sandbox if they This impact in their exposed performance These are just in a natural a few elements of our strategy for the medium term to to analyze Financial innovation and technology could impact on on the work of central banks So that's really exciting and fascinating to see that the BIS Which I think traditionally is very conservative organization is actually pushing forward with ideas about innovation and trying to rethink things and When I've heard governor mr. Carson's the the general manager of the BS talk about these things in the past He emphasized two things he mentioned mentioned the the soft public goods Which the BS has long done in terms of standard setting and so on but he also talked about hard public goods And do you have an idea what what he means by that is he talking about actually software and that sort of thing No, the the infrastructure are actually those example that Issue was mentioning so we need that to Not to forget the fact that central banks create trust yes in the payment system and Solid public infrastructure is is very important this morning. There was also discussion in the panel about the experience of India with the digital ID and The payment infrastructure they have created so in a way the goal of central banks is to reinforce these These these aspects in order to create a very solid environment for the financial System in the future. Yes. Thank you. So deputy governor. I'm out. I was wondering if you could respond to that Do central banks have a role to play in promoting innovation themselves the short answer is yes The long answer is where does it stop where does it start where does it stop? You know so the legal framework needs to be in there the regulation and the policy They should do that they should provide some of the utilities that's my view I know there's sort of two camps in that respect because we heard this morning about what are some of the potential pitfalls if they provide utilities and sort of the power to sort of take them away We should be at the forefront of innovation because of all the reasons that we've mentioned all the benefits We've talked about the fact that Inclusion is quasi into the mandate So if it's going to help you achieve the mandate and even if it wasn't inside the mandate The truth is that it does help you foster of the financial and the monetary and the price stability that you need So we we we definitely as regulators need to be sort of very interested at that the the jury's out as to at what point we We allow the market To Self-regulate. I don't know if that time would ever come where the market can sort of by itself Just go yet. You know do this Luckily, we are having this conversation and when I meet other central bankers, you know I'm happy to know that we're not the only ones grappling with What these choices sort of should mean a lot of the emerging market Economies have leapfrogged some of developed ones in terms of embracing technology because of the real Issues that needed to be to be resolved and I think they these economies will be the test case for How well this sort of is going to work thus far? It's worked well for us to provide infrastructure for instance set up a central switch set up a central depository You know make it fit for purpose for everyone to sort of plug in, you know There could be conversations about a single source of failure, right? so When that comes up you you come up with or the or the solutions I heard from one of the colleagues yesterday about what DLT can do to to resolve Distribution like the technology can do to resolve this single point of failure sort of issues So as we sort of walk down this road I think that we as regulators will always keep our eye on on the pitfalls and the risks and find ways to sort of Combat them if you look at the Niger experience all of the regulations that we've come up with is what has enabled these companies to Thrive, let's not forget without the licensing without the rules without the guidelines They won't be even there for us to see yes today So you can't take today you can't take the central banks out of the conversation about innovation Yes, I think what needs to happen that is that at what point do we get to where we say, okay? It's time to hand over What a wonderful way to sum up our conversation both in this session as well as for the most of the conference I think we have time perhaps for one question. It's a one question. What is a very short question? Yes, so if you raise your hand you must promise you can ask this question in one sentence. No run-on sentences The the monetary transmission mechanism will be will be definitely affected by this this change In in the in the last slide I don't know if you refer to the last slide or the slide on the money market funds But in both cases there is an effect on the monetary transmission mechanism because in one case the case of the The correlation with respect to the asset price We have in mind in the traditional Microeconomic model the financial accelerator. So this means that when for example, there is a monetary tightening There is an effect on on house price that will amplify the transmission in case of big tech credit These these effect are Are are not in place simply because they are they don't rely on collateral So this means that they the credit will be more correlated with the normal traditional business cycle So this could be an implication for the transmission mechanism and the second aspect is related to the The slide on the money market fund There we can see that there is a complex relationship that has to be fully understood because the there is a sort of Connection between the big tech and the bank in terms of their assets and liabilities. So these these Basically as as to be analyzed deeply Also in in in a relation with the different institutional characteristics for example The people bank of China was he was aware of these effect on the float that was in a way Factoring by the creation of 100% reserve that now big tech companies have to Have to deposit with the with the with the central bank. So this is just an example to to show you that Central banks are Aware are studying a little bit the evolution of the effect of technology the response Is not naive as to be really well crafted and it really depends on the institutional Institutional characteristics. So let me get encouraged you to read Leonardo's paper on this subject of the big tech in finance So with that Let me just sum this up very quickly by saying that today at the session We've learned that and we've know that innovation can help us to serve the poor and a broader section of the population better Innovation can change the players in the marketplace including the legacy players and central bankers can drive some that innovation And here we have two excellent examples of central bankers who are driving innovation in both at the global level and at the national level So please join me in thanking both Leonardo and deputy governor mod who's running us