 Good morning, everyone. You've joined us for another episode of the nonprofit show. And today is a special day, Fridays, as we like to call it here, because we have our exclusive Friday Ask and Answer episode where we do something a little different on Fridays. And that is we answer the questions that you have submitted to us. And we often get somebody in with us to help see what some other answers might be. And so we want to make sure before we kick things off to thank all of our presenting sponsors without them, we would not be here. Our gratitude goes out to Blumerang, your part-time controller, the American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, Fundraising Academy, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader and the Nonprofit Atlas. Okay, we are joined today by our very special guest, Camely, oh, Hintant Patrick Jennings, somebody I know. Camely, you are joining us today from the Bay Area. Is that right? I am, yes, here in the Bay Area. I was just saying it was quite rainy yesterday, but beautiful and sunny this morning. Well, good. I hope that sunny attitude comes out in your answers and how you work with us. Let's get to our very first question that comes to us from Anna in Tucson, Arizona, where you have an aunt who lives in Tucson, Arizona, by the way. I do. You do. Okay, Anna from Tucson, Arizona asks, we're thinking about developing a young professionals board. We feel it would help us cultivate next-gen leadership for our community and offer training. Any thoughts as to how this might work or not? Also, what would be some costs? Great question. I have that question myself. So I would toss that over to the expert, you, to hear your two cents first and then I can give my two cents. Okay, yes, yes, yes, young professional boards. I'm a big proponent of it, but Anna, it does have some costs. It takes a little bit more management. Young professional boards are not fiduciary agents. And so they generally roll up or report to the main board, board of directors, board of trustees, and they cannot really, they can operate, take minutes, all of these things, but they're not going to be held to the same legal standards as the overall board, which is a good thing because it allows them to learn how to run a meeting, how to behave in a meeting, everything from Robert's rules of orders to showing up, understanding how to work off agendas, all of these things, how to work with a board liaison, I could go on and on and on. But this is the deal. You've got to have somebody within the organization that's going to act as, for lack of a better term, the motherhand, somebody that's gonna run it because these are people who don't know how to behave and what the structure is. And yet if you can do this training right, they will learn and be able to serve your organization or the community. And that's a good thing, Dutch, thank you, Cam. I think so. And I think one of my questions is how, I mean, thank you, Anna, I'm very aligned with the same question, but how do you get on one of these boards? Do you, is it the same way of being quote unquote for the biggest board in the nonprofit of your state or country? But how do you find these opportunities, I guess, is my question, back to you. Yeah, I think that's a great question. One of the ways that I've seen it done is I think it's okay to go out and get corporate sponsors for this, because this becomes an amazing training ground for organizations that want their young leadership to flow up into community leadership, right? And so you can open this up. You can open this up through a general portal on your website, through the media, going out to young leadership community-centered organizations and putting the word out. And I would come up with a very short one-sheet Google Drive kind of application and then really set out what type of people you want on the board, what the board service is gonna look like. Is this a one-year, two-year, three-year stint? Is there a give or get? Do you have to make a donation to the organization? I would say most definitely. Doesn't have to be huge, but it should be something. And then kind of structure it that way. And then you do have to recruit, Kamali. And I think recruitment that's done best is to go get some of these younger professionals and then let them seed it in the network, right? Right, right. I mean, you are who you are with, as someone once told me. And so, you know, if you can get, if you can get a rock star, young professional, or even on your professional board, then those people probably know others, I guess. So I think that's a good idea. But yeah, as a young professional, I've been seeing more and more peers of mine do this type of thing, you know, which is cool. Around the country, you know, in different capacities, but I think it's super special. So I think it's something that young professionals should keep an eye out, plus also the nonprofits should be probably more so keeping an eye out because I think it is super, super beneficial. Yeah, and, you know, I think about, Anna, and we'll move on to the next question, but I definitely was not prepared or educated enough for my first board service piece. I took too much time to learn and kind of observe and figure out what was cooking. If I had had a young professional board that I could have been trained up on, I would have been more confident, I would have been more responsive, and I would have been a stronger board member going into my first, you know, placement. So yeah, I think it's really, really important. Okay, well, so far you're pretty good. You wanna go to the next question? Tea it up, what's up? All right, so the next question comes to us from Patty in Miami, Florida. She writes, I'm having trouble getting potential donors to visit our program. While I realize that some folks are still being cautious during the ending days of the pandemic, we were having this problem before COVID-19. Any ideas would be helpful. Really interesting. Interesting, and I guess she's by program, she means their campus or wherever, you know, they're helping their beneficiaries. But, you know, it's so powerful to have people come to your campus. You know, I think seeing, you know, and meeting people who have gone through whatever program that nonprofit might provide is so, so powerful. But I think it's also, it can be uncomfortable for folks. And I think that's probably a deterrent for some because, you know, it isn't, you know, glitz and glam and it is tough. And, you know, I've been to places like that. You've certainly been to places like that. But it's important in the same vein to see, you know, what your dollars are doing or, you know, really being able to talk about that organization if you decide to, you know, take part and really participate whether financially or voluntary or time. You know, I think definitely everyone struggled with COVID-19 and, you know, we couldn't have people, you know, at our properties and campuses. But I think, you know, virtual tours have become really popular, you know, whether that's, you know, 360 video that you can, you know, drag around your computer and see, you know, what this campus looks like or your new, you know, program. But I think as we were kind of talking, you know, and I should chat beforehand is that, you know, this hybrid way of working is what's probably going to stick around for some time. So I think, you know, be prepared for those people who might feel comfortable because of COVID, staying at home or maybe it's just easier. Maybe they just don't want to go in person. Maybe they have kids, things they're taking care of, you know, older parent or whatever it may be. It's okay to stay at home and, you know, you can still participate that way. But I think, you know, preparing for this hybrid model of having people in person, but also knowing that it's okay if they're not there in person, they can still experience your programming in a virtual way. So when you worked for the World Food Program, Share the Meal, which was a division of the United Nations, and you were based in Berlin, I know you have upruling travel filled with a lot of issues that came up. And how did you navigate that? Did you actually use some of these tools? I mean, did you show pictures of what some of your camps looked like or how did you paint the picture from with a wealthy donor who was living, I'll be blunt, a life of luxury and then connect them to phenomenal human trauma? How did you do that? Yeah, you know, I think for us, you know, on the United Nations side or the WFB side, it's not something that we really do actually. I think that's probably something more along the lines of a smaller nonprofit or a smaller NGO, but because the UN is such an engine and there's thousands and thousands of people working, you know, we didn't and still don't have this type of tourism, which really is what it is, you know? So that is not something that we did, more so probably on the journalist side of things. If there was someone who wanted to go to the field, they sponsored themselves. It was not something that they do. And I think that's very common for a lot of organizations is that, you know, they don't wanna promote this type of tourism to get that picture, to put on their social media, you know, to say, oh, you know, Pixar didn't happen, if you will. And that is, you know, that's not appropriate for someone to have that as the only reason of going to the field. But I think, you know, having a good communications and marketing team is so key and crucial. And, you know, as you said, being in the field, whether whatever cause you're working on, maybe it's, you know, in a war zone in Ukraine, or maybe it's in your backyard, it's not easy to take pictures in the moment because it's often a difficult situation. And, you know, you are probably doing a million things. And the last thing on your mind is to take a nice photo. So I think it's very important to have, you know, depending on the size of your organization, to have someone professionally take those images, take that B-roll video, because when you can make it evergreen, meaning you can use it whenever it's not time stamped, not date stamped, I think that that is really great to have for all of your marketing, for people who just wanna see, you know, what your programming is like. I think that's much more valuable and a good investment of your dollars versus organizing means one-off trips, you know, for your top donors because, you know, it's a lot of work as we all know to organize even a personal trip, a vacation, you know. But I would suggest take that effort and energy and dollars and put it behind a professional marketing team, videographer, you know, storyboard your content, know what you want to get before you get to the field. And again, this doesn't have to be, you know, the field in, you know, a Rohingya refugee camp and it could be in your backyard, you know, down the street, you know. So I think being prepared, having your stories thought out and investing is probably the best way to capture what's going on in your programming without having someone have to be physically there. Right, well, and I think it's interesting, you know, it's somewhat revealing that before the pandemic, they were having problems getting people there. So I think to your point, Kamala, you kind of have to meet people where they are. And I think this to your, exactly to your kind of scope of work of this, if you think about it, you said that, you made a comment and I think it's really interesting. In some ways it's not just COVID, it is easier for us to say, yeah, I'll jump on a Zoom call. You know. Totally, totally. And also now, you know, what you could before, but I think now more prevalent is that you can support an organization anywhere in the world. You know, you don't have to actually ever meet those people in person or go there or, you know, you know, yeah, be there in person. And so I think that making that investment in your marketing and communications and specifically your collateral, your content, your pictures, your videos, your social media effort if you have some is really important and can encourage people from anywhere to donate, to volunteer, you know, to spread the word about the work that you're doing. Yeah, I agree. Okay, well, that was amazing. I loved that comment. Thank you so much for sending that question in. Patty from Miami. Okay, Carol from Bridgeport, Connecticut writes in, how do you feel about having board member give or get policies in place? Our board is divided on this issue. Can you give us some strategies and perspectives so we can make this a policy or not? Okay, give or get, the issue is here, you are required as a board policy written in your bylaws to as a serving acting voting member of the board to make a financial commitment. And if you cannot do it to get that financial commitment. I'm a big proponent of this. I think it's really important for your investors, your donors, your funders, even your contractors to understand that you have 100% board participation. Doesn't mean that it has to be a crazy number. There are organizations throughout this country that have incredibly high giver gets. So I think this is important. But you know what, Kamali? One of the things, and it almost ties back to our first question is that a lot of times, you know, somebody like you in this younger set aren't gonna have the financial strength to do this. And so I think what's a really cool way is for the board to do scholarships and to scholars. I love that. Yeah, no, sorry, I was gonna say I love that because you know, A, yes, you might not have the dollars to do it and B, you might not be in a position in your company to ask for whatever product you're selling or working for, you know? But you still wanna be involved and you still have a lot to bring to the table. And so I think that having a scholarship is amazing. And you know, it doesn't, especially if you're on the young professional board, it doesn't have to be a massive hopefully giver get. But I think that that's a fantastic idea. And you know, having a different perspective, if you know that person, whatever their background is, whatever their job may be or may have been, I think is sometimes so much more valuable that, you know, oh, we can give you X products or we can give X dollars to fund your programming. Exactly. And I think too, you know, if we just, if we don't have these structures in place, we're gonna get the same types of board. You know, we're not gonna get any diversity of thought, action or deed because think about even if you're super successful, chances are you have student debt or you have a young family. I mean, you have, it's really, I think one of those things that turns our next generation of leaders away from board service. So yeah, give or get policies in place, but figure out something creative to get them in. You know, and it makes me think, Kamali, I recently heard of a board that had a different price structure, I think for under 40. Oh, that's great. Yeah, board members coming in had like, I think it was like 50% lower. I mean, you know, that's common for, you know, if you're a member of, I think, I like how you mentioned the age, because I think, you know, when you hear what is a young professional, what does that mean? You know, because if you are 20, that's pretty young or if you are 40, that's still young in, you know, the trajectory of someone's career. So I like that you gave that number because I think, you know, you hear, you don't hear specifics, you know? So I appreciate that, you know, just to get a bit of an idea of, you know, what does that really mean? And of course it's giving me different things for different organizations, but you know, just from that one experience alone that you shared, I think that that's really helpful. Well, I've told you the story privately and I'll share it publicly. One of my first more prestigious board positions, I was incredibly, I was the youngest person they'd ever brought on. And for the first two board meetings, some of the elderly board members asked me who I drove. And I remember the first time I was like, well, I drove myself. And then I realized they thought I was somebody's like assistant or caretaker, because these were people in their 80s and 90s who had that type of staff with them that drove them downtown to the board meetings, you know? And I was like, wow, that was like, you know. So yeah, and that organization needed younger voices. So I'm just saying. And I will say you were over the age of 40 at that time. So to put that into perspective, I think, or around there. I was close to, I think I was in my 30s. But I mean, I was like 38. Yeah, I was like 38. But yeah. But I mean, to a 90 year old, literally one of our topesties, 92, fabulous, sharpest attack. Amazing. You know, at 30, late 30s to early 40s. I was young. Yeah, quite a distance. Quite a distance. Anyway, okay, let's go to Richard in Columbus, Ohio. Ohio. Ohio. You're a local. I know. Well, at least I didn't do the O. Yeah. How are they doing? Richard from Columbus rights. Although we're a nonprofit, we're thinking about offering our employees a matching gift program. The for-profit sector does this. Why can't we? This is really interesting. I've never had this question. So basically- I like this. What do you think? You know, I think there's, and I think we've talked about this before on our Thanksgiving celebration episodes, is that, you know, there's no reason why if you work at a nonprofit, you shouldn't be treated as equally as working for a for-profit organization. You know, you're still working. You're still doing the same day-to-day tasks. And there's no reason why the pay is significantly lower. The benefits are lower. You know, you are, you know, treated as not, I wouldn't say a second-class citizen necessarily, but, you know, it's just day and night often between working in a for-profit and nonprofit. And so I like this a lot because this is a benefit. This would be considered in a benefits package, you know? And just because you are working at Susie's soup kitchen, feeding, you know, people in your community, it doesn't mean you don't have another passion or another cause that you care about and you want to give back to. Maybe it's your child's school. Maybe it's, you know, a religious organization. I don't know, whatever it may be. I think this is, you know, an easy way, quote-unquote, to add another bullet on your list of benefits that is attractive to candidates. I love that comment. And I think that's brilliant. I hope, Richard, that you all do this. It doesn't have to be a lot, but it's super meaningful. And I think this could be one of those things. And Kamely, that you said, I mean, this elevates somebody's commitment to their organization because it's like, I invest in you and I invest in you investing in your community. Super powerful. Yeah. I think, you know, having worked at nonprofits and spending time, you know, with those organizations, typically the people who work there are just passionate, caring people about a lot of different things, you know? And so I think that having, you know, HR slash leadership recognize that and say, we know you are a giver. We know you want to give back to your community. Maybe it's locally, maybe it's globally. And as you said, it doesn't have to be, you know, a $10,000 match. You know, it could be whatever, you know, is it works for your budget. But I think just having that means a lot with a, you know, a little bit to give, you know, from the business perspective. Yeah. I think it's brilliant. Okay, Richard, write us back and let us know how this turns out. Because I think it's just such a fabulous idea and something that I have not come across. So super exciting. Okay, Judith from Arcadia, California writes, I have a corporate donor who wants to align some service volunteer activities with our nonprofit. His company has about 150 employees. I would like to really make this donor feel special and honor his commitment. Besides, I think this could cultivate some additional donors, right? You are, do you have any ideas for us? Now, you're in the middle of a major employee volunteer effort, right? With your organization. Well, it's actually, I believe this week or next week is National Volunteer Month in the States, if I'm mistaken. Yeah. It's important, you know, and I think what I've found is that sometimes when, you know, you and I, because of you, was privileged to grow up with a sense of giving back and a sense of volunteering. And that was just something that I thought was routine and normal, but as I've gotten older and have been exposed to different communities and cultures and people, I realized that that's not the case. And so I think having the education piece is really important. I've had colleagues come to me and say, you know, who might be embarrassed, which there's no reason to be, to say, I've never volunteered before. I've never given before. How do I do this? How do I pick a cause that's meaningful? What does this really mean? What, you know, back to, you know, saying the number 40, what is an appropriate gift? Is it $5? Is it $5,000? You know, what is an appropriate amount of volunteering time? Is it five minutes? Is it, you know, five months? And so I think having that education piece and telling people, you know, it's okay if this is your first time, we're here to guide you, you know, we don't want to impress upon you as a specific cause or organization or amount of giving. But I think, you know, creating that safe space and saying, you know, this is a great thing you can do. It doesn't take a lot of effort or money. And you can feel so good after, you know, participating in that event or in that, you know, give campaign or whatever it may be. So let me ask you to reflect upon your education. And I'm thinking specifically high school education, you came from an institution that really propelled the student body towards service. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because they had their days, their work week, their educational week was actually designed around give back hours. Can you share with us some of that? Yeah, you know, and again, in the moment, I thought it was normal. I thought that, you know, all kids did work like this. And, you know, this was just, we had, this was 10 years ago, but I think we had, you know, the last hour of the day, which was technically, you know, still part of school, you were encouraged to be involved in one of those extracurriculars. It could have been a service type of project. It could have been sports. It could have been theater, music, whatever it is. But I think teaching that at a young age, I mean, I look at myself now and I'm like, I need to get involved. I need to do things because that's just, you know, in those formative years, that's what I learned to do. And then I saw myself in college being involved in so many different things. Because again, I thought that was normal. I thought that's what you do. And not to say that's what you have to do, but I think, you know, reflecting back on high school and college, I would say that personally, those extracurricular experiences was where I learned a bulk of my knowledge and my, you know, being today in comparison to, you know, what was actually in the textbooks. Now, with that said, I'm in a profession that doesn't require, you know, massive amounts of schooling. I'm, you know, not a doctor. I'm not, you know, a chemical engineer. So I've had that opportunity because I do understand if you have a more rigorous, you know, degree or profession, you have to, you know, study those books. But I would say, you know, instilling that sense of giving and giving back and just really that education piece is so important as early on as you can. Whether, you know, talking back to the question of, you know, employees, you know, that could be a part of your onboarding for your employee orientation, you know. And even if you have a very small social impact or, you know, volunteering, giving program as part of your company, maybe you have a team, maybe you have half a person, you know, working on that on the side. I think it's so important to include, you know, to let your employees know what's going on, that it's there, you know. And again, it's that safe space that if you've never done it, that's okay. We're here to help you. I love that, you know, I have to admit I never thought of it that way about how do you educate and include people that might not have had that experience so that you're cultivating that next wave of donors, of volunteers. Going back to our first question, are board leaders in understanding what a life of service can be? Because it is truly what makes, I believe, Camely Jennings this world greater and especially in our nation. And you have lived that life for sure. Hey, I want to say thank you so much to Camely Patrick Jennings. Just had to throw in that name. You've been great. It's been a delight to have you share with us your perspective. I mean, I always think that it's a great perspective shift because Jarrett Ransom, my co-host who's off today, she and I are a 20 year difference. But when I put you in the picture, we pull that out even more. Like a 30 year difference. So that's how much. Not that much. Man, I don't know. But hey, so much gratitude, Camely Patrick Jennings. Thank you so much for joining us today. Coming to us from the Bay Area. This is really a pleasure because there are times when we've had you and you've had to join us from Europe. So this is a lot easier to get you hooked into the nonprofit show. So thank you. Well, thank you for having me. Happy to be back maybe before our next Thanksgiving. Maybe not. We'll see. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. We might have to work on that because you're pretty sharp. So we've enjoyed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We've enjoyed having you. Hey, everybody. We want to make sure that we thank once again, all of our presenting sponsors. Bloomerang, your part-time controller, the American nonprofit academy, nonprofit nerd, fundraising academy, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit Atlas. Without these fine folks, we would not be here having these conversations. As we end this episode with Kamali Jenning, enjoy your holiday weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday, everyone.