 Welcome back to the run-up on Plus TV Africa. Well, the Labour Party has accused the independent National Electoral Commission of frustrating its petition against the outcome of the 2023 presidential election by not allowing it to inspect election materials as ordered by the appeal court. LP also raised the alarm that INAG had started reconfiguring the bimodal voter accreditation system without the presence of the representatives of political parties. Labour Party spokesman Dr. Eunice Tanco accused INAG of disobeying the court order of the presidential election petition tribunal which directed it to grant the parties and its presidential candidate OB access to true certified copies of materials used in the conduct of the presidential poll. Tanco threatened that LP might ask its supporters to stage protest nationwide at the offices of the Commission over its refusal to obey the court order. For journalists to discuss this is Aki Alawye, Public Affairs Analyst and Member of the Labour Party. Aki, you're welcome to the run-up. I also have Cumbered Arabi Aslam, National Youth Leader, Labour Party. Hello, Cumbered. Cumbered Aslam, are you still with us? He's joining us online, by phone or by Zoom. Do we have him? Thank you. Cumbered. I'm here. Arabi Aslam here. Very good. We also have Myoko Iloh, Policy Analyst and Former Guartnership Aspirant under the APCO Goon State. Gentlemen, you are welcome to the program. Thank you. All right. Not forgetting my virtual co-host, Adebayo Alawyeke. All right. Let me start by asking you. Mr. Aki Alawyeke, has the protest begun? We haven't kicked off the protest in earnest. Still giving INEC and perhaps all of the other agencies involved supporting this process, the opportunity to give us access, you know, to inspecting the beavers devices. It's shameful in this day and age that a government agency will refuse the order of a court, just seeing that our democracy and all of the excellence we expect around the process should be protected. So again, by end of the day, we'll probably get some communication across through all of our support groups. And I'm hoping we don't have to get to where we actually state the protest because it's just really sad that a number of elements are looking to truncate a process that we think should be held sacred. All right. Mr. Iloh, after Labor Party got the court permission on the 3rd of March, INEC went to court on the 4th of March, asking the court to vary that order. And then they were granted permission to go ahead and, you know, reconfigure because they claimed that they needed five days to at least process it all before the governorship election. My question is, is INEC on track? Does the order they got to proceed that which INEC had gotten on the 3rd? I know you're not a lawyer, but let's just go this out. Well, I want to say, in my opinion, we should balance legality with visibility. The elections were supposed to have held, at least for the governorship on the 11th of this month. The reason it couldn't hold was not because INEC was not ready, but because of some legal torso that made the thing not to have been able to happen within the expected dates. So, I wouldn't see this as a disobedience of the court order. I think the plan to protest is AST and not well conceived. I would say the right to protest is entrenched in democracies and civil societies worldwide. But we shouldn't be using tools, which time has not come to address issues. INEC is saddled with the responsibility of conducting elections, the federal election and the state elections. It's in process. This is like drinking water from a fire hose now. So, the fact that they have not complied between two weeks or one week ago does not mean that they are disobedient to court order. So, there's need for patience, allow the process to play itself out, because even the Labour Party is contesting in the election that is coming on Saturday. So, there is really nothing on the table that suggests that okay, if it doesn't happen before the 18th of March, then justice has not been served. I don't think that is the case. So, there should be some patience on all sides because even though it is the Labour Party that is asking to inspect the viewers, all the parties would technically have to be present in addition to INEC officials. INEC has limited number of staff, which everybody knows. For the most part, 90% of the people that use the election are hard dock staff. So, and they are going to be busy configuring beavers for the next election and actually doing one or two other things. So, a little patience. I don't begrudge them for wanting to check the beavers, check the electoral documents, but a little patience. All right. What we understand now is that INEC has already begun the process of reconfiguring without the representatives of the parties. And for Labour Party to say they want to go on strike for me means two things, that they want to inspect these machines before any form of reconfiguration and two, that they do not trust that whatever is safe in the server will not be doctored. This is where I'm going to call the Comrade, Comrade Anselm. Please come in. Am I correct with my postulations? Okay. Comrade Iraq Bay Anselm here, National Youth Leader Liberal Party. It has become very dubious to us as Nigerians, even as observed by the observers, local and international, with respect to what happened in Nigeria as it affected the presidential national elections on the 25th of February 2023. But at large, what was expected ideally was a very free fair transparent process, which had been issued a ton otherwise. So we have instances where the results that came from the polling units, from what we are seeing in the IRF quarter, and the way in which the results of the elections were collated and declared. Now, particularly for us in the Liberal Party, we are very worried and we have expressed that displeasure. One, by going to the court to demand that we be allowed to expect... Yeah, we have moved forward from that. Comrade Anselm, I'm saying, because now Labour wants to protest. The reasons why you want to protest, even though you've gotten caught in junction in court order to go ahead and, you know, check these machines, which INEC itself went to court the following day to get another order, asking the court to vary. But you are going to protest today, as you have made us know, that's your party. And I'm saying, postulating, that the two major reasons why you want to protest is that you do not trust that whatever is going to be saved in the server, which INEC has been instructed to save, is not going to be doctored. And you also want to make sure that you witness or you do your inspection before the reconfiguration. Am I right? You are right. Because for us, like you said, it's an obvious fact. Ideally, let me say something. There is no basis really for reconfiguration of the beavers. Because these are equipment that have large storage capacity. Now ideally, just like your phone, the phone I'm using to speak with you now, I can save, it's about 24 gigabytes of memory space I have just on this phone. And I'm aware that the beavers have higher memory storage capacity. So ideally, there's no basis for reconfiguration. It's such that all of this information could be stored side by side in different spaces within these systems. So the desire to reconfigure the beavers, I mean, it's abnormally in the phone systems. So that is because something is showedy. Or that which is showedy is the reason we say let us suspect first and foremost the beavers have the details. If you still choose. Comrade Aslam. Okay, Adebayo, this is the time for you to come in and ask your questions. Please go ahead and do so. Thank you, Maureen. I've been following the responses of our guests and I have a question for both of them. That's Akio Lawi and Mario Illo. And the question is this, didn't INEG engage all the political parties before the elections began to explain to them how the beavers system works and what its capabilities are. Because now we are having all this suspicion which some have argued is reasonably justified and there's some confusion as to what exactly this beavers system is. So did INEG at any point before the elections engage with the political parties to say we are going to be using this system. This is what it is capable of doing. This is what it is not capable of doing. These are the outcomes that we expect. Adebayo, take this. So I'm very certain the leadership of the Labour Party would have engaged INEG. Equally the public expressed a lot of interest in knowing how the beavers system works. A lot of Nigerians just seeing the excitement and the overwhelming participation at the polls on the 25th could equally sit there at the polling and almost equally agree with the presiding officer on how and what to do with the beavers system where people were challenging INEG staff, upload the results, use offline motor Nigerians are very intelligent. But then there's something I must say, trust but verify. Because we trust INEG to live up to its expectations does not mean we don't have to put INEG under a microscope. We're making sure we can verify that they are carrying out their fiduciary duty. Now, the other thing I want to explain is the fact that when we talk about resetting the devices or reconfiguring the devices, if you pull up your petrol station to buy fuel in your car and somebody just bought gasoline, work 2009, the first thing they would do is to crank it down, have you look at it and say it's back to 0.00. Now, if you fill up your fuel tank of your car and you book 50000 for only to find out that you perhaps have maybe 20 litres, you're asking yourself, where is the difference in gasoline as you have in my vehicle? You can then say, you know what, I want to audit your systems with making sure I got what I paid for. That is exactly what we are asking for. Part of trusting the system is verifying that the system where we validate the data is protected and will not be altered. Looking at the logs is what we're simply asking for. And again, as an agency has been giving the mandate or the instructions by the court to allow the Labour Party to complete that process. Okay, Mr Ailo, you want to add to that? Well, I would just say we are all on the same page here. We want somebody to say the trust like my friend here said, but verify. So even at that, we should allow the process to play itself out. I can't hold forth for INEC. I know people have complained that maybe leading to the elections, they haven't done enough in terms of sensitizing us, in terms of telling us exactly how the beavers works. But we cannot postulate for the much that we don't know. After the elections, when everything has died down, it's another process entirely. In fact, there will be more court cases on account of the governorship elections that is coming than the presidential. So when that time comes, the lawyers will have had a few days to do their bit. Forensic analysts, forensic experts will be brought in. So, more or less, there is nothing INEC does that will not be put under the microscope when the time comes. But now, using the presidential to score two, the governorship election is what I'm not up for at this stage. So we can be a bit patient, allow the... It's just five days or there about the way let the elections come. Then whatever it is that we feel INEC has done or has not done can be put under the microscope. All right. We can just keep going back and forth on the issue of this INEC. And sadly, we do not have them to answer some of the burning questions which include knowing that litigation will always follow elections. Why not either do the governorship and the presidential same day or after the presidential announce or give enough time for the governorship, giving enough room for all the litigation, all the questioning, all the requests to inspect the machines as we now see playing out. I think that's one of the questions I would love to ask INEC if I had the opportunity. But let's talk about the protests that Labour has planned to get involved in. What scope is it going to take? So, when we're talking about protests, I think, again, in Nigeria, we've made that word a very negative term. It's enshrined in the constitution the right to protest, the right to freedom of assembly, peacefully, and the right to association. So, talking about protests across INEC offices, it's just basically calling Nigerians, again, good citizens, peace-loving people to come up and express their displeasure with the system. And I think it's unfair to say that INEC is understaffed or INEC perhaps is allowed to be inefficient. Mainly because INEC is a wealth-funded government agency. They have four years to prepare for elections that will hold on two days. So, again, to have my APC colleagues here sit down and promote inefficiency, incompetency as a way of governance, I think we are saying no, we're rejecting it. And yes, indeed, when we have to flag up that we will be allowed to, again, as part of support from the political party, the Labour Party, my party, go out to INEC offices, they will be peaceful, there will be no destruction, there will not be any types of mayhem or chaos. And I think there are a lot of INEC employees that will equally agree with you that a lot of what they've seen and have been asked to carry out as part of their functions is not in accordance with the law. So, for every Nigerian out there I would ask people to be vigilant. Again, don't be frustrated because what you're seeing is the establishment, the APC, looking for ways to promote this, what I call energy of apathy where Nigerians become docile, we don't care about elections, and we just, again, it didn't work out to move on with life, going to business. We're saying no, we don't have to end up in court or with multiple litigations, get it right, so we don't have to have people back down for the next three, four months waiting for outcomes across our courtrooms. Is this going to be across the country? Yes, nationwide, correct. Do you not nurse the fear that this protest, even though you have called for a peaceful protest, could be hijacked? So, I think when that reference is equally made then perhaps the government or the security forces should understand that we pay taxes and we expect them to carry out their functions. So, if non-individuals with faces like me show up to protest, I'm not going to protest to then have a street urchin or a dog sponsored by, again, nefarious elements of society show up and hijack the process if the police, if the military, if the DSS are all up on their game. So no, we don't expect it to be hijacked. Okay, let me talk to the youth leader, Comrade Aslam. Comrade Aslam. Okay, we've lost connection with him but he's going to obviously combat. But let me throw this question to you. One of the concerns that people had when the 25th February election was received with mixed feelings, the youths were highly aggrieved. One of the questions I asked at some point is is there any fear that the youths could get angry to the point that we'll see a repeat of Ansar's? And fortunately, we didn't see that. Do you find that instructive? Let me start with him, Mr. Illo. Do you find that instructive that the youth this time were calm and matured in their outcry against what they saw as injustice? Well, I think a part of that would be the demeanor, the majority of maybe the political leaders. PDP has done some protests in Abuja. They might not have the youth power or favor that maybe Mr. Abu commands. But it's been peaceful. Peaceful protests are a part of the norm in all civilized democracies, which Nigeria is aspiring to be one. But that said, I still think this one is a bit premature. We have time on our hands. Elections and election litigations are actually marathons. They are not sprints. The way obedience sometimes carries the issue of elections is as if within the next two months, within the next one month, within the next two weeks, the courts on the basis of maybe protest, on the basis of beavers, overturn, overturn an election. No, this issue is going all the way to the Supreme Court. And at the end of the day, it is how you are able to prove your case. I know ahead of time as an NPC member that it's going to be difficult for Epitaubi to win because of some things, permutations and commitments that have been done here and there. Elections are not one on the basis of the Supreme Court. But that said, I respect the movement. I respect the energy. I respect even the changes that is candidacy has brought, because there has been a lot of complacency. Maybe on the normal, the way politics has been done in Nigeria. It came in, it changed a bit of that. Now using that element of change, that energy to bring about change at the national level, and maybe take over the presidency, is another ball game entirely. But maybe not with the energy that we have now, maybe with the permutations and combinations. Presidency in Nigeria has always been by, at least in politics, has been by alliances. It has not gotten that level of alliance. People will tell you the youth is everything, but no, there are thought makers, there are opinion leaders, there are entrenched career politicians that all they think about is to think about the next three, four, five steps in politics and how they are going to marshal resources, how they are going to marshal people, get people on their side, you understand? And I think we made a mistake of maybe alliance from five governors to go away. It paid dearly for it. We made a mistake of not building enough, maybe time wasn't on the side, building enough and check across the Niger into the heartland of the north. A carousel state is not a carousel city alone. Jigawa is not a damawa and not the rest of it. But there are lessons to be learnt. My issue with the team over time is that it is like a young person to be in power. But it has not had the time. And the time it had over the last almost 10 years that it has left public office, it has not used it to build the bridge that it will use to climb to the presidency. It is never too late. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now. Timugu has been a bridge maker, has been a Godfather kind of person over the years. I'm not saying it's a negative life, but if you don't control the people, if you don't lead, as it were, the people that you can use to climb, they will not be there for you when you need them. Now, Peter Abbey is meeting with the senators-elect under the Labour Party candidacy. He's meeting with the House of Reps. He's meeting with Governors. He's campaigning with them. So that is telling him a message. That okay, if in the next four years I'm going to stand the chance of being a force to reckon with, then definitely I will need these people. If he's not careful, you'll be surprised that these Labour people in Senates, half of them will join APC in the next four years. That's the kind of political leader that Timugu is. So if you're not careful enough to know that okay, you have to stand your ground and use ideologies and use strengths, you know, and use maybe good leadership to bring them into your fold and keep them there. You'll be surprised that they will find a better house in APC than they will. You're shaking your head. Yes, and I think that's where the political establishment did not really write it on the wall ahead of the 25th elections. There is a new direction we're taking as a nation, politically. Perhaps Peter or Ben may have been that person that was able to drum off the energy that you've seen. But let me paint a picture. Every generation writes its rules. The politics of Awolowo, the politics of Shagari, the politics of Bola Metinubu is not the politics that my generation chooses to play by. And I say this because, again, a party, legal party, in seven months, no structure, social media noise, they will not get more than four local government areas. Four people tweeting their room cannot even get 5% in Lagos. We beat APC in its strongholds. You're looking at incursions we made in the north into Nassarawa, into Platu, and you're seeing new, again, first-timers in politics, never won councilor, never even went actively for party meetings, emerged as federal House of Rep members. I'll use Etyosa, my background which we call so-called so-called constituency, perhaps looking at the energy from the NSARS protests. The House of Rep members, their attack chief, I will say this on record, perhaps did not have Peter on this phone number in his contact list the day before elections. So guess what? The people, young people like me, a lot of housewives in elected phase one in VGC in different parts of this local government said we will promote this candidate. Perhaps if posters in Lagos won elections, everything would win every single seat across the state. But what did you find? Every day of Nigerians showing up to the polls and said we've had enough. We will rewrite the rules of the future. We will change the blueprint of politics. Yeah, you're talking about politics of alliance and how they have to cross the Niagara. Perhaps we're saying for once the message, the character, the individual running for office, not all of the patronage and deals, people would often make politically, across regions, we're saying I will promise you plunge contracts or all but we are saying no, give us people that would show up and do the bidding of the Nigerian citizen, make this country proud, make this country great again. So perhaps this, let me call it APCE, PDP ideology that politics is done off of the back of deals, we have written it away. 31 plus House of Rep members, nobody saw us even when anyone seen. It tells you something that Nigerians for once are taking charge of the future. So if you want to make this argument that again, the architecture of politics lies in Ghana must go, you know, using the local structure of bales or eagles or you know, shapes across the nation to control committees, people are independent minded and Nigerians have proven that the way they will vote in France, the way they will vote in the US, the way they vote in Sweden, we can equally be the same and that all politics, for me, I can say we should start wishing it away. We've been taking a look at the planned protest by the Labour Party and with me, I have Aki Oloye, a public affairs analyst and member of the Labour Party. We have come with Irakbe Anslem, national youth leader of the Labour Party who's joined us virtually and Maya Quillo, policy analyst and former governorship aspirant under the APC in Ogun State. Gentlemen, it's good to still have you with me and not forgetting Adebayo Aloha came, my virtual co-host. Adebayo, you're still there? Yes. All right, so before I went on that short break, Mr. Illo, you wanted to respond to what Mr. Oloye was saying with regard to the way politics used to be and how it is evolving. Yeah, well, some people said this way, the more things change, the more they remain the same. At the end of the day, it will still be about alliances and what they call know-your-neighbour in politics. Sometimes my decision on who to vote for is predicated on what I hear from my neighbours about this particular person. The person representing me in Lagos here, the State Assembly came around yesterday. People have some misgivings about him, but at the end of the day, people spoke and we couldn't even know half of what he has done before. But when he came and explained himself and did some circles, you did this, but you have not done enough to market yourself. People have found, felt you have been distant, so this was like a payback time. But to tell goodness, he came in the nick of time and he said, no, I've not been hiding. This is me. Forgive me if I've not been able to market myself. Well, and as at the last count, 70% of the residents in my community said it deserves to go back into the house. So if tomorrow you don't see Labour Party sweeping Lagos, it's because at the end of the day, it might be a bit late. Because some people have been saying, ah, the governor is now everywhere in Lagos. You've seen him in church. In fact, it became a bit ridiculous at some point, but he is fighting for his political life. You have to take that, give that to him. So if you see him in church, it's better so that when Saturday comes, and Monday comes, and he's pronounced the winner, which I know he will be, on the account of people voting for him, you understand. It's not everybody that has the same energy of being a media person, you understand. But at the end of the day, results should speak. Lagos can do maybe better, but being better is not because those who are there are not trying. It's because maybe they've not been getting the best advice or they don't have enough opposition. I would like, at least for the record, Labour Party to win a few seats and put some pressure on the Lagos State House of Assembly. Let each governor that comes into office knows that, okay, this is about serving the people. This is about giving account of stewardship. Why is Fashola a most beloved governor in Lagos? It was because every 100 days, he will come and address the people and say, okay, over the last 100 days, these are what we have achieved. It's the same Lagos it belongs to all of us, even though it's a Yoruba land. People have come, have settled, people have, you know, everybody has found that, okay, Lagos is the best state to live in, in Nigeria, despite the notion of, okay, it's the worst city in the world and stuff like that. Yet we love our Lagos. We enjoy the communities. We can sleep with our two eyes open. Even more than I rather live in Lagos than live in Abuja. So it didn't come overnight. It's not because God has bestowed on us the right to live peacefully. It's because the governments, you know, in charge of the state, they are doing their best to make sure, okay, how can we make sure that the people, the residents are at peace and live with a secure environment and live with their two eyes closed? All right. Now, because we have another topic to take a look at, I want us to look at this very particular issue that I think is very crucial, because irrespective of your party, PDP, Labor Party, APC, Nigeria is the subject and democracy is crucial to our growth. Now, this issue of disregard for court rulings and judgments at the risk of making the judiciary a limp dog, the supreme court a limp dog, how do you see that? So I think I call it rascality and impunity of, you know, government agencies choosing to, you know, they basically cherry pick, you know, rulings that they respond to. And it's dangerous for any democracy. The court should be the last destination for resort for the common mind. And when you see political candidates like Peter Albin, my Labor Party, others saying, hey, we're seeking redressing court, the court again perhaps issues an order to the agency and the agency overlooks it and begins again configuring the devices or planning for next Saturday's elections without again doing that due diligence, it's troubling. I mean, what does this, what message does this send to investors looking at Nigeria as a destination, you know, to bring FDI? What does this say to the average nine-year-old girl or boy that doesn't talk in civics classes that go to court, get a judgment and perhaps that's how society should be put in alignment. And it's troubling that we would always only wait till Nigerians threw their hands up. There's some form of, again, perhaps, you know, let me call it civil response before the, before this agency say, you know what, we're going to do writing. You reference and starts calling for the five or five where we want to increase salaries for police officers, multi-evaluation, prosecuting those found wanting for crimes against citizens. And it took young Nigerians, even all across every social demography, saying, you know what, we want change. And I think it doesn't have to escalate to that point for us to say, you know what, we can get it right. I mean, INEC has a lot of professionals, individuals, the qualification to be an INEC employee is a BSU and HND by last checked and a lot of people that work there have even worked for agencies across the world. So what stops us from having a competent, efficient system that delivers good election so we don't even have to go to court? It's only Nigeria that people tell you, oh, when you run for office, prepare half of the money you're going to need for campaign for the court wounds. Why? Let's get away from that type of politics because it does not make our democracy get any mature. Yes, I know. Well, the evil men do live with them. If you're having issues today, it's not something that happened over the last four eight years. It's the foundation of democracy that has been set from 1999. Shiva Basantya is a respectable, respected statesman as it were. But when he was leaving office, it didn't be quitters with a democratic transition that was maybe the toast, the sign of show of all eyes at the time. That foundation was faulty. It was at the time, if you recollect, his second in command in office was a certain, a larger Ticuabobaka. So that same un-equal, imperfect system that they navigated at the time and they didn't improve on. So it actually took a certain Muamadubuari to come in and make expressions. We are pathetic people. I've said it at an earlier forum. Nigerians don't really care. Everybody talks of the need for change. But when the push comes to show, people youths play football on that day. How in a country of 200 million people, where the midline of our population is 18 years, that means technically 100 million Nigerians are above 18, 100 are below. So we should be having registered voters, like the 3 million close to that figure that we are looking at. But at the end of the day, we are having 25 million people voting. How do we explain that to the generations yet on board? So whoever wins, maybe as pronounced by NEC or as judged by the courts, at the end of the day is running with a weak mandate. But that said, a mandate, a weak mandate is better than no mandate. We don't want to throw the country into anarchy. Let whoever is disgruntled or whoever feels that some places have not been followed, go to court. We can't preempt the courts. That is where while you can use protest to spice up things a bit, we should also know that at the end of the day, it is the court that we decide. They will not necessarily decide in our favor. I can go back in time. I can look at 1979 elections. I can look at 1993 elections. I can look at some other elections over time. Even Dibwari that is about stepping down from office, on each of the occasions in which he lost elections, he didn't disagree. He never congratulated the winner of those elections. He went to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said no. The other person actually won. So if Peter Obi feels he has been robbed or the processes have not been followed, it is up to the courts to decide. The election, the one we are talking about now was a judgment of the appeal court. It is not at par with CBN and federal government disobeying Supreme Court order. When it gets to the Supreme Court, that is where you know, okay, now you are disobeying the court. Because if we, for every judgment that has not gone as high as it could, begin to change status quo, unless we are necessary, then we have a problem. Imagine Osho State now, the tribunal, two against one, somebody will say it is one versus one, said the current governor, the incumbent governor, PDP governor, is not supposed to be in office. So do we now push him out of office while he is on appeal and say no, let the APC or Etola come back. Then the appeal court will now say no, it is actually supposed to be Etola. Then we come back and he is sworn in into office again. So we should avoid this deletion and a process that is not well completed. So I would still advise, while I don't say anything wrong with protest, the protest should not be channeled against INEG. You can do a post protest, federal government do the needful, put INEG into office. Imagine what will happen if we say, okay, CBN is not doing the needful. Let's target CBN office nationwide. The last time people tried it, I think some people died. All right. Well, this is a good place to end this subject. We've been taking a look at the plant protest by the Labor Party and we've had Akio Laoye, public affairs analyst member of the Labor Party, Comrade Iraq Bay Anselm, national youth leader, Labor Party, and Mayor Quillo, policy analyst and former governorship aspirant under the APC in Oregon State. We take a short break and when we come back, we'll be taking a look at some of the crisis rocking the APC, especially with the call for the resignation of its chairman. Stay with us.