 we will pray. Okay, recording is on. Let's pray and start. Maggie, would you like to pray? Yes, first. I will pray. Yes. Okay, let's pray. Father, we thank you for your faithfulness and your great love, Lord. We thank you for giving us opportunity, Lord, to come and learn and complete this class of Apologetic King. You have been faithful and you've given us knowledge and enough information, Lord, to be able to defend you a lot in the world. And we pray this as we conclude this class, King. Let this be planted in our heart. And in power, pastor, he has closed the class and as you prepare for the next time, Lord, be with him and give him knowledge and wisdom, Lord, on how to go about it and what's the right things to do. We pray all this in your mighty name, Jesus. Amen. Amen. Thank you. All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome once again. Today is our final session on Christian Apologetics. What I want to do is just kind of do a quick overview of all the main topics that we have covered in the course and then just open it up for time of questions, discussion, anything you feel we would need to discuss and so on. And then we'll see how that goes. You know, if we finish in an hour, that's fine. If he spins over into a second hour, we'll just continue of continue the questions and interaction for the second hour as well. So just to quickly review and get an overview of this course, maybe just share the table of contents, I think. Let me just share this. All right. So I'm just sharing the table of contents of the notes there, which have been given out in pieces. So basically in chapter one, the very first lecture, first few lectures, we positioned what the course that we are teaching on Apologetics as both something that we reason, we engage in meaningful discussion, and we also demonstrate that as we believe in the supernatural power of God, which many times is, you know, it just addresses the issues and so on. So that even when things we don't answer when people encounter the power of God, they know that God is real. So in Apologetics, we're basically saying we're giving a reason for what we believe, explaining to others why we believe what we believe. And so we started off going through, you know, a series of questions on the existence of God creation and existence of God and creation. So a lot of questions on that. So we spend one lesson on the existence of God, the fact that, you know, we give reasons why we believe God exists. We talked about science and faith that these are actually not contradictory. You can be a person of faith in God and still be a very good scientist. And while science is good, there are a lot of things that science is unable to answer, which faith sheds light on and helps us understand. We talked about creation and, you know, we looked at Genesis one, we saw the six days of creation. These are literal six days of creation. And the underlying team thought to be emphasized was that in the Creator act of God, in the great act of God, the time and energy were compressed. So that means God didn't need as much time as we think, you know, as evolution would suggest. And God is so powerful in his creative act, time and energy which compressed and creation came into existence. So we spoke about that and we took address some common questions around creation. Then we took some time to look at evolutionary biology and also on the Big Bang theory. We said, okay, this is what, you know, evolutionary biology presents, but here are questions that remain unanswered by evolutionary biology and these are the gaps. Similarly, with the Big Bang theory, this is what they postulate. But here are the gaps here are things that so far in physics and astrophysics. So we've not been able to answer those questions. So we spend a lot of time, I think, in the early part of the course, a lot of lectures on that basic God creation, science, evolution and cosmology. Then we shifted focus. We started talking about the Bible, that the Bible is why do we say the Bible is authentic and accurate? So we just went to throw all the practical things that show us how accurate the Bible is and the scriptures. And there will always be people who will try to dispute and argue, but the fact is, in terms of ancient literature, the Bible is the most authentic and most reliable text that we have given the number of manuscripts, the time gap, and the diligence with which things have been transmitted to us. Then after we talked to the Bible, then we turned to the focus on the person of Jesus Christ, things around that. So we talked about the uniqueness of Christ. Why is Christ unique? Why do we say he is the only way of salvation? Then we talked about the resurrection of Jesus. And you know, we can just see just by the whole, the narrative of the whole incident of his resurrection, that it cannot be manufactured. It's not a hoax. It's a real thing that happened, the physical resolution of Jesus Christ and the subsequent years and the transformation of a man like Saul and so on. These are real things you cannot deny. And so Jesus Christ is alive. Then we took a little bit of time to talk about, you know, the presenting the message of salvation, especially to people of other faiths. So we talked about salvation in Jesus Christ and some basic guidelines on sharing Christ with the Hindu and Muslim. So we focused on that. So the message, the fact that the Bible presents salvation as only in the person of Christ. So when you look at the Bible, there is no other option for salvation. It's in the person of Christ. And how do we present this to a Hindu or a Muslim? Now, we did not spend time on these two things, other worldviews and contemporary calls. I didn't want to spend time on that. Instead, we went directly to our responding to social challenges and we spent time on understanding suffering. So actually we did understanding suffering first. So we spent time talking about suffering from a biblical perspective. So we put before us all the reasons why, from a biblical perspective, people experience suffering. None of these things, and all of these things have to be understood from God's original intent. That God's heart for people is always good. He created and He put things in place that are good. But then why is there suffering? And we presented several reasons, biblical reasons, why there is suffering and how believers should respond to suffering. Then lastly, we talked about these social challenges. That, you know, the church is facing or has to respond to a number of social challenges and it has to be the pillar and a polter of truth in society. We can't run away from it. God has said that the church is the pillar on foundation of truth. So we have to respond to so many of these challenges now because these actually, you know, question or challenge some other things that the church is supposed to uphold in society right from the idea of marriage and homosexuality and then divorce. What does the church's stand on that? What does the church's stand on abortion? What does the church's stand on climate change? What is it and the environment? What does the church's stand on? Other areas of science, like, and we just took a little bit of time to talk about genetics and genetic engineering and modification of genes and so on. So there's just a little representative if you're not obviously addressing all the social challenges that are there but just as a representation we need to have a little framework in our minds on how we're going to respond to it and what I present there is, you know, understand how God responds. How does God deal with these things, right? He's fair to the, there's a good and the bad. He makes the sun shine on both and yet he himself doesn't compromise. He's still the God of truth. He's still the God of holiness and he doesn't change. While he's being fair to people, he's loving and compassionate to people, yet the truth is unchanged. So that's our approach with people. You know, we need to love and to be compassionate. We need to work with them without compromising on the truth given to us in scripture. Alright, so hopefully this, you know, going through this course has opened our understanding to the fact that, you know, we don't have to be afraid of questions. We can take the time and the effort to research, to learn, to study and respond to the questions that people have. Now without, of course, getting into arguments and fights and you know, those kinds of things, no. That we do everything in love with the intent that, you know, hopefully people will understand and be able to come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Right, so we are just helping them in this process, in this journey. Ultimately, it's God who has to work in their hearts and minds and bring them to a place of conviction. What we can do is sincerely do the best we can to answer their questions, to understand where they're coming from, to, you know, to explain scripture in a way that would be relevant to situations that we are faced with. Okay, so that's the course and people, I'm still working on the assignments for all my courses. So I will put out these assignments. My plan is to put them all out by tomorrow. So put out assignments for all my courses by tomorrow evening. They're not going to be very difficult, just an hour of your time. We'll finish up the answering the questions, but that we will be done with this course. Take time to study further on things that would be of interest to you. I'm not saying we can be experts on every topic, but there may be topics that might be of interest to you. Take time to study, research that further. And if you have any further questions, you're welcome to always email and I will do my best to reply to your emails. So what I want to do now is just to leave this time for any other questions. You know, this is just a time for interaction where if there are topics or themes or questions that you feel we can discuss, which will be useful, please feel free to ask or put it in the chat. Okay, go ahead Shri Kamara. Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Pastor, thank you. Pastor, I want to know in the book of John, as you said that in the from the Genesis as to like the time and the energy is compressed together and now two things I want to know. When we read the John chapter one verse one where it says that in the beginning was the word. So is it means that that the time and the energy was compressed in the word and second thing I want to know that when the Bible says in the John chapter one verse three, not three, in the four in him was the life and the light. So when the if the word was there in the beginning and everything was compressed in him. So the light and the life was there in the word. So in that case in the Genesis chapter one and verse two says that the earth was engulfed in darkness and now it's not saying that the heaven was engulfed it is only saying that the earth was engulfed. So my question is when the when everything when the light was there then everything was in the in the if it is in the word or it was compressed with the word or if the word is the light and the light as you said or as the Bible says then how this darkness appeared over the surface of the earth. So two things I want to know that when we say that it is compressed is it compressed in the in the word and second thing if the law if the if the word was the light and the light then how the earth was engulfed in darkness then I just want to know that thank you master. Good question. So a way to understand this is to go back in time when there was only one realm the spiritual realm. So in the beginning at this then let's say before the beginning beginning means the start of time. So before time started or we use the phrase the dateless past there was only one realm which was the spiritual realm so the natural realm was not there. So the spiritual realm God was or God is and that realm was a realm but you know there was always light God is light so that's the spiritual realm and then there was a point when out of the spiritual realm came the natural realm the natural realm is what you and I live in it's this entire universe or expanse of universe that we who are best understanding if you know we now we say it's vast it's expansive but that's all the natural realm. So this darkness the Genesis is talking about is in the natural realm not in the spiritual realm right. So in the natural realm so in the spiritual realm it was all light God is God was light but then the natural realm came out of the spiritual realm how did the natural realm come it came through the spoken word right by the word of the Lord were the heavens this heavens means the atmospheric heavens the natural heavens not the spiritual heavens by the word of the Lord were the heavens made and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth or Hebrews 11 that was Psalm 33 verse 6 and 9 Hebrews 11 verse 3 says by faith we understand that the heavens this is the atmospheric heavens or the the natural heavens by faith we understand that the heavens were framed by the word of God and and all so that the things which are were made of things that are not visible so the natural realm came out of the spiritual realm and it was the spoken word of God that caused everything to come into existence so through the word God's design that's God's wisdom God's intelligence God's design God's power which is all of his energy and was released and the natural world came into existence and then in the natural world we have these things like light being formed and so on so when we talk about the the in Genesis 1 to the earth being in darkness that's the earth was created but then we know that you know the the the stars the celestial bodies that emit light but then created subsequently right the the stars the sun and the stars which emit light so at that point the physical earth was in darkness so we we should draw the distinction between the spiritual realm and the natural realm and this is a process where God who is spirit who is eternally in the spiritual realm is now creating bringing into existence the natural realm and then that's the process we see in Genesis 1 and did i address all your questions sir yeah i have one more question connected with that so it means that when the bible says in the Genesis chapter one words one where the bible says in the beginning God created the heavens so is it mean that God created the the the atmospheric heaven or it is the heaven where the bible like how the john visited the heaven and he saw the heavenly beings and where the god was enthroned is he saying about that that place is it a location or is it as you said it's an atmospheric um or it's atmospheric yeah i just want to know what it means that atmospheric sorry the atmospheric location or it's a location let's say we're talking about the universe we can use the word universe right when you say universe it means galaxies and other things the physical heavens okay so is it also a location where the god dwells is it is it means that also yeah so the word heaven in scripture or heavens uh sometimes it's used as a place for god dwells where is god well he dwells in heaven but even the physical earth the physical realm which for example where the clouds are you know as high as the heavens are above the earth so what's he talking about the physical realm right the sky as as or you know your faithfulness reaches to the heavens basically is using the natural realm the natural heavens as metaphors or pictures to describe something about god right or or um or you know the heavens declare the glory of god the firmament shows his hand even what's he talking about he's talking about the celestial heavens the stars the you know the universe that we talk about so it's talking about the natural realm but the word heaven or heavens also is used to talk about the place where god dwells which that is in the spiritual realm right so god dwells in in the spiritual heavens so now and then again you know uh and paul says he's been caught up to the third heavens what's he talking about he's talking about the spiritual heavens when he talks about we are wrestling with or we are seated in the heavenly places spiritual we are wrestling with powers of darkness in the heavenly's spiritual but then we have to understand so while in our minds we're demarcating spiritual and natural let's also understand that the spiritual overlaps the natural because for example right now i'm sitting in this room and in this room there are two realms there is the natural realm that there is also the spiritual realm yes right so i'm in this room you what you're seeing is the natural but there are angels in this room yes so that's the spiritual realm the spiritual realm overlaps the natural it's almost like interwoven into the natural but yet in our minds we demarcate them for the sake of understanding thank you paul thank you thank you manga your question please thank you sir um based on uh brother shikumar question i think just brash shikumar so when when the in the revelation when it says that the heaven and the earth will be uh folded and thrown away so so at the new heaven and the f will come does it mean it means it's saying about the physical heavens about the the universe because in heaven jesus went and cleaned the temple of his own blood so for for the heaven where god lives to to pass that means suck the blood blood of grass will have done uh i don't know if it's the right word to use because it's not worth it to take the blood of grass to go to heaven and clean the temple then throw it away so question is when it says the heaven and you'll be a new heaven and new earth does it mean the physical uh space that our universe thank you sir yeah um so i'm saying uh so man the answer to your question is it's suffering to the physical realm okay so second peter three where peter describes you know that he happens and the earth will be done away with the melt will be destroyed at the fire so stop with the physical and there'll be new heavens and a new earth talking about the physical second peter three and then revelation 21 opens with that scene of a new heavens and the new earth physical now how much of the physical heavens is god going to do it with or innovate we don't know other than what we can see written for us in revelation 21 and 22 where he says the earth the new earth will not need a sun because what'll happen is the spiritual heavens the place where god dwells will come into the natural realm so we see that in revelation 21 22 where the heavens actually descend into the spiritual heavens which is the tabernacle of god which is made of a spiritual material so when we say spiritual realm it doesn't mean it's non-existent no just just a spiritual material and that is now coming down to rest upon physical earth okay that's revelation 21 and then he says in revelation 21 the earth will no more need its sun because the lamb of god jesus christ himself with the sun here so now there is the the merging of the spiritual and the physical in a way that we have never experienced or cannot have not just cannot find them because the spiritual the spiritual material is now coming into the physical what we refer to as physical earth and revelation 22 captures that for us and so to answer a question the old heavens and the earth meaning the physical realm will be done away with is it going to be the entire universe which for god is just a measure with a span or is it going to be part of it we don't know just as heavens and the earth i'm assuming all of it i'm just assuming although we don't know for sure you know what god's going to decide i'm assuming that all of the physical realm will be renovated made brand new and heavens that is a spiritual comes in and meets the natural and that's what the eternity future is going to be like revelation 21 and 22 thank you sir okay go ahead go ahead there's um the reference of the different heavens like the celestial earth and the physical i think how many references to heaven and so on that you mentioned how do you know how to interpret which one um the bible is talking about you're in a key point if it's okay this is the heavens talking about the physical heaven and this is whichever heaven is talking about is there a way to um to pick it up and based on the verses or interpretation how do you interpret one interpret which heaven and what are the different heaven because when they said okay this is another person open heaven what exactly is open heaven we understand in some sense that it's from how we have access you know in terms of faith or such but what exactly on this thing open heaven is here really thing okay okay so yeah so the first part of your question how do we know what heavens or which heavens is being referred to of course we will have to go by the context and a simple rule of thumb is if god is involved or spirit beings are involved like angels and demons then we know it's talking about the spiritual heavens right because then it's it's the spiritual ground because it's in that realm god lives and these spiritual beings operate so so that's that's kind of a rule of thumb that we use to you know okay when paul says you know i was caught up to the third heavens where i heard you know god speak i heard inexpressible things well then it has to be the spiritual realm and not the the celestial heaven so the the the universe as such or so that's one rule of thumb second is sometimes it's explicitly stated for instance in first Corinthians 15 when paul talks about the terrestrial and the celestial there he's just talking about you know things on earth and things in heaven meaning the heavenly bodies the universe so there it's kind of explicitly states things that way so you know he's talking when he's talking about those kinds of bodies he's actually talking about the natural universe and about things that exist there but then in that passage he also talks about the heavenly man then obviously he's talking about Jesus he refers to Jesus as the heavenly man so this is the lord from heaven when he says the lord from heaven he's talking not talking about heaven as in the natural heaven but the lord from heaven meaning the lord came from the spiritual heaven right so you know so the context and then who's who's he's speaking about if you're talking about god angelic beings spiritual beings then spiritual heavens he's talking about the earth the earth related things then or you know natural heaven bodies then it's the natural heaven so that's how from the context we can determine what heavens is being addressed now in scripture as far as the spiritual heavens are concerned Paul uses the term third heavens so that means and this is in spiritual context that means there has to be both first heaven and a second heaven and a third heaven and and then we know that you know we are wrestling against principality's powers in the heavenly places that's the spiritual ground so it seems to imply that in the spiritual heavens there are these three levels you know because Paul was caught up to the third heavens now the bible doesn't explicitly state what the first heavens are or the second heavens aren't doesn't explicitly state it and therefore what is you know commonly understood especially in the charismatic circles may not be in evangelical circles but in charismatic, vaticosal type circles what the first and the second heavens are usually interpreted to be as the first heavens is the the spiritual atmosphere surrounding the earth where deep you know where we are engaged and we deal with demonic spirits the second heavens is the next level of spiritual atmosphere where satan and his demons operate and the third heavens is the third level where god is god dwells okay now evangelicals may not agree with this but this is typically what is understood in the charismatic vaticosal circles of the first and second and the third heavens which to my understanding even though the bible doesn't explicitly state it i'm comfortable with that that the first heavens refers to the spiritual atmosphere enveloping the earth where we you know where we spiritually operate as well second is where demons their principality's power satan's demonic hierarchy operates third is where god dwells um so i think that answers both your questions daisha yes sir um it answers but about the open heaven oh okay um that first one okay let me explain that yeah so open heavens is just uh a terminology and again it's mainly in the charismatic vaticosal spiritual circles uh it's based on certain scriptures like uh in the new testament we see in matthew three in the baptism of jesus it says the heavens were opened and the holy spirit came like a dove or when steven was being stoned in acts five he says he said i see the heavens open and the son of man standing or in the prophet is in the old testament when izikal's experiences he says you know the heavens were opened and a hand reached out to me so in in the book of izikal also we have this term or the phrase the heavens being opened open heavens so it's taken from these you know these references is based on that and so we use we you know we use this term open heavens and uh basically it refers to um a place uh so it's referring to that so the idea here is the idea behind this whole thing is so we are operating now think in the spiritual realms that you know we are operating in the first heavens that means the spiritual realm immediately envelop enveloping the earth it's a spiritual atmosphere around the earth then there is the second heavens where the demonic powers are operating so the idea behind all of this is and then there's the third heavens for god dwells so when steven says i see the heavens opened that means he is saying like you know this this this atmosphere spiritual atmosphere the first level second level is just opened and i can see directly into the heavens where god is when izikal has his experiences arvin jesus being baptized the heavens were opened so it's not about talking about the natural but the spiritual and the holy spirit is standing so open heavens is a term that's used to say that the first and the second spiritual atmospheres are so opened or in some ways you could say the demonic interference is so weakened or so less that it's like easy access into to god or god is therefore working out or pouring out his grace and his blessing so that's how the term open heavens is understood or is used and again this is very specific to charismatic benicostal spiritual circles so what what the implication is therefore in regions where there are open heavens so to speak and there is free access like in jacob's experience he calls it a gateway to heaven the heavens you know in his dream he has this he sees a stairway to heaven a gateway to heaven that means there's a free access a movement between the third heavens to our world neither a revelation the works of god and so on and often it is used in the relation of revival right that means when when we are experiencing an unusual move of god here on earth we say there's an open heavens in this area in this region and it's often used in the in the same in the context of revival when revival is happening we are saying you know god is moving so freely and that's how it is yes does that help or did i confuse you is it okay yes yes thank you i'm clear um it's kind of interesting in the christian world how certain terminologies are used in certain circles you know so there are certain terminologies that are you know when you it's more prevalent in spirit field charismatic type of circles then you look at the vansalical world you know the baptist method is reformed so on they have their own language to speak and express doctrine and ideas and theology so it's interesting it's just good to be familiar with both and so that we can you know understand what people are saying yeah okay so i see rose rose question uh pastor can you please set light on the following sequence of events when jesus died on the cross and he went down to the depths he preached to the spirits and he ascended back he took the righteous once with him when he went up to heaven in these events then to be placed the time when he said to mary not to touch him because he ascended to yes he had not yet ascended to the father so when you look at the sequence of events from the cross uh till christ's eventual ascension to heaven so the ascension actually happened in two stages the actual final ascension happened uh that's an ax one but let's pick up so when jesus died on the cross when he died on the cross that same day he went into paradise now remember before the cross paradise was in the lower parts of the earth so in the lower parts of the earth there were two compartments there was hell and then there was Abraham spusion or paradise so uh jesus went down into paradise the the thief who died with jesus was also crucified he went to paradise so jesus was there in paradise it's quite possible that he went across and preached to the spirits that were held in hell or he proclaimed to them that redemption has been done you know we read about that then he ascended on the third day so you know for our for on sunday morning he ascended came out of the grave physically he arose so when he physically arose that day on that the day of resurrection he was still here on earth and then that's when when meri saw him she thought he was the gardener so she when she came to the tomb she thought he was a gardener then she realized no this is the physically the resurrected lord but remember he was in the spiritual body a glorified body different from his physical body right and that's when he said so on the day of his resurrection he told meri don't touch me i have not yet ascended to my father right so he was resurrected but he did not yet ascended so he said don't touch me then comes the ascension but this ascension has a twofold purpose he goes to the father which according to hebrew's 10 he ascends to take his own blood into the most holy place that means he's going before the father saying the work has been done so he ascends and this also is a fulfillment of Ephesians 4 when when he ascended he led captipity captive so that means abraham's bosom all the old testament saints were held in abraham's bosom up until that time paradise was taken and was shifted into heaven so two scriptures right hebrew's 10 Ephesians 4 so when he ascended at that time that's the day maybe later on in the day of resurrection yes any what happened two things he was taking his own blood into the most holy place and he was leading captivity captive paradise was being shifted into heaven so having done that what did he do for the next 40 days this is x1 verse 1 and 2 for the next 40 days he showed himself alive with many infallible proofs so that means he had not permanently ascended he was still visiting people here on earth he was making his physical appearances and you know and we have a record of many of his disciples seeing him and then finally at the end of the 40 days x1 is his ascension from the mount of olives in the eyes of olives with disciples who saw him and that's when the two angels announced saying this same Jesus whom you've seen him go will come in so like manner will so come will come in so like manner as you've seen him ascended so that was his ascension that's why i say the ascension was in two parts the first was on the day of resurrection when he took his own blood and led captivity captive the final one was x1 at the end of the 40 day period from the mount of olives he ascended and you know to be seated at the right hand of the father and yeah so that's yeah so that's kind of the sequence of events yeah is that okay rose good so any other questions all right so we have Tisha and Samuel good so uh shall we take a break and come back and take those questions then so we can go into our second hour can we do that is everybody okay with that okay so let's do this let's take our 10 minute break i will come right back and then we'll get into our questions further questions in the second hour anybody you can add any questions uh you're welcome to ask we can discuss these things you know common questions then we will make use of our second hour as well okay so sam you'll Tisha if um yeah if you have questions and we will take your questions right after this 10 minute break okay see you all soon thank you