 We're back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa. GD Johnson joins us this morning for Off The Press. GD, happy new year and thank you for joining us. Okay, I think we seem to have audio connection challenge right there. I hope we're able to sort that out as we progress. Now quickly, we start off with the punch newspaper this morning. Looking at the punch newspaper for the big stories, 28 governors pile up 5.8 trillion naira debts for incoming government. 28 governors pile up 5.8 trillion naira debts for incoming governors or government. State debts to increase above 200% of revenue in 2023. That's according to the World Bank. Lagos cannot execute laudable projects with loans. A commissioner is quoted to say, but the question would be if, I mean, there's a lot of revenue that's being generated in Lagos. What's Lagos business in getting loans? Consumers say electricity tariff hike illegal. Anger spreads. Federal government gives operators ultimatum to name oil well owners. And two senior lawyers want EFCC scrapped. Just before we move away, you have another one saying, Macking Day Kickstart's second term campaign faces multiple battles. And commuters grown as Jilos Berger returns. That's the Lagos Ibadon highway. How Lagos police man ministry paid 185,000 naira for new bond. These are very hard times, sad times, very inhuman, if you ask me. The nation newspaper says presidential poll G5 keeps PDP supporters in suspense. G5 keeps PDP supporters in suspense. I have never seen it, you know, such a dramatic election year. Macking Day to announce preferred candidates, governors protest exclusion of articles name on list. NFIU to enforce ban on cash withdrawal from public accounts match the first. All APC governors behind Tunubu Suleiman affirms and Council autonomy are headache on constitutional amendment and 22 fuel stations sealed for selling above approved price. Reg Bachelors men in Oshun APC campaigns team is quoted to say these are the headlines you find. But we just turn our attention to the Guardian newspaper this morning. The Guardian says the 2023 term inflation in security fuel subsidy expert tells government term inflation in security fuel subsidy expert tells government and it feels like we're able to control of this. Then just maybe, you know, economists just going ahead. One and wrong steps ahead of elections. It's significant a year for Nigerians. How electorate outcome will determine economic progress, inflation, cost of living crisis among major challenges. Now truth is the 2023 election just as every other election, but I think this is very critical. It's going to be, it's very significant because investors individuals, a lot of persons are waiting for the outcome of this election and the outcome of the elections will determine whether would have more investment or investors will pull out of the country and what have you and how many persons would you know relocate. The word would be jackpot. But that's that's a lot to consider. Most importantly is that every other person gets their PVC. NFI you talk stuff on cash withdrawal limits and threaten offenders with imprisonment. AFZ shouldn't be in existence. Nigerian constitution falls 40 says. Now federal government to transfer 613 rehabilitated repentant terrorists to states. Federal government to transfer 613 rehabilitated repentant terrorists to states. Those against obese endorsement by President Olusia Gunobasanjo. Don't mean well for Nigeria. Ohaneze is quoted to say how cost of production import dependents undermine national drug security. I said this morning on the Guardian newspaper and quickly we have the daily trust cash withdrawal from government account and match the first. NFF IU is quoted to say officials to receive extra code allowance through accounts. Federal government states local government we drew over 1 trillion since 2015. Implementation requires political will exporter saying and that's also out of not out of the conversation. Program ought to have started alongside TSA. OPEC all output increases as Nigeria rebounds. Bauti Emea replaces Belukarefi with Ahmed Kari as new Wazzari and 18 Boronu passengers burnt to death in Bauti auto crash. Ina divorced PVC collection towards and registration areas. We spoke yesterday with the HOD of publicity right here in Lagos and she had mentioned that. Five days old Boyerics amputation over doctors negligence in Kano. Local government autonomy bill hindering constitutional amendment that's what Omoa Gege is saying and APC governors not in a secret deal with the TIKO national governor's quoted to say. Let's quickly bring a guest in share his thoughts on some of the headlines this morning. GD Johnson it's good to have you join us. Thank you so much. Well we hope that we have GD Johnson you know connected to us as soon as we can but the headlines this morning if you go through the pages from the punch to the nation the guardian and the daily trust newspaper the headlines the headlines are beg your pardon very interesting. I wonder it's a standing it's the fact that you have lawyers asking that the EFCC be scrapped and that that's a very strong one and you also have the fact that when we talk about revenue because we seem to be dealing with the revenue issue in our country as a people 28 governors pile up 5.8 trillion a debt for incoming government or governors however you want to put it but 28 don't forget that we have 36 states of the federation including the FCT so look at the ratio look at the calculation that's a lot but what exactly is going on and we have constantly accent queried you know the pattern where we have to be highly dependent on the center for allocation it's a very healthy and if it's not healthy then how come we have not been able to decentralize and ensure that there's resource control that conversation that word resource control has been in a lexicon for a very long time and everyone says we need to you know states need to be able to control their resources people need to be able to you know get to a point where they say the resources that we have were able to you know utilize them and then make do with it of course remit to the center not the other way around but are we really sincere with this conversation and has this pattern not made us very lazy can we be progressive if we get to a point where we're able states are able to control their resources the argument against that has been that just with how you know governors have acted it's also possible that this governor's you know will be too powerful you know towards our resources and there's a lot of argument because if you talk about state controlling state resources you also talk about state police gd johnson has reconnected with us gd it's good to have you join us and thank you so much for being part of the show all the analogies with respect to resource control i mean we've been very fond in the room that nobody's interested in talking about and then if you look at the amount of money what we're talking about resource control we're talking about restructuring and then unconstitutional review is about distribution of power across the various tiers of government it is exactly the judiciary and the legislature and then across the various various tiers of government with local states in figure and then various organs of government legislature judiciary and the executive however we are not having that conversation and we have spent a lot of money trying to review the constitution i think we have spent over 12.8 trillion over the years reviewing the constitution are not active in it now we talk about resource control one of the things about it is our local government autonomy which was in the middle element of the the constitutional review of the niger assembly and which was also part of the executive order 10 that was challenged in the court and the country not most of the state is not most of the state has to be assembly unfortunately if we get this state like it goes to it is not even interested in local government autonomy because there's no sense in so we are not having that conversation and it's like we are in the same cycle we are not making any progress because if we don't have resource control you can't have you can't have constitutional federalism without having fiscal federalism you can't practice federalism and practice federalism on paper and then don't practice fiscal federalism with each for each unit of the nation as we control over the resources so if that's what we have found ourselves and with respect to that we continue to talk about it because we have a major constitutional review that allows your state to retain part of whatever revenue that comes from the state and local government as well so that's that's the situation we keep talking about the other thing I'm interested in is the big price so no one is talking about restructuring they're about giving back to the community and the rest of it but how long will we continue you know in this type of practice right and I mean look at that psalm that governors have actually 28 of them have left that amount of money that's on the punch newspaper you know for the incoming government or governors isn't it really worrisome should we we get to a point where states should be allowed to express because for instance there are several states for when we look at states they are naturally endowed with different resources the amino resources that we're probably not paying attention to what why shouldn't we allow states to be creative explore what they have and then you know get revenue rather than being dependent on the kind of system that we operate where they have to go to the center and now we know that the center is being threatened because of our inability to you know keep up with all proceeds which is also a major factor that contributes to our revenue so easy you're worried about the state government you're not worried about the federal government as well and it's we're not going with as you saw us as the final check to give you the approval it's a bit boring I don't know whether it's 77 billion or 77 billion dollars that it should not go mad as to being out there for 77 trillion nair 77 billion 77 77 trillion 77 trillion thank you very much 77 trillion nair that's a federal government is leaving the national assembly that should serve as a tech is near is almost a robust term I recall there was an issue where the president bought a request to to seek for a loan and even the speaker of the house of rep and the senate president did not even allow for a debate when members are calling for a debate the real thing out of assembly are an extension of the office of the governors of the taxistic state and governors that we have in Nigeria so the real institutional checks that we have in place are not doing their due diligence they are allowing people to to do whatever they want to do without the cost of due process loans and procedure you have to say what do we have to shoot for all of this money that we have borrowed and then some of them still have the gunshot to go about campaigning for for their success and some of them still have your density to see campaign under the platform of the party that has been in government for close to eight years and then you have nothing to shoot for it you know if you have debt incurred by government and you have something to shoot for it you're interested in paying for it there's no doubt that government across the world has the most debtors however you will borrow debt to do infrastructure to build your site to build the economy not to fund their lifestyle in Nigeria we are we are borrowing money to fund the lifestyle of of our elected officials and public office and i have said it don't take a key and take a trip to the to the to the various and secretarial state government secretariat or local government secretariat or federal government secretariat or where you have locations of the ministries and departments and agents of government across the seven of the six local government across the 36th government federal capital and the federal government and you'll be shocked at the type of car we drive as official car is only in Nigeria that i see people are using luxury cars and non-functional cars as as as official car and then we complain that we don't have money we complain that there is inflation we complain that people need to pay more taxes yet government that is not engaging in bell typing how do you justify the use of travel and an official car how are the various of the various types of cars that that that that the drive that we borrow money not to build infrastructure we borrow money to fund the lifestyle of our public and elected officials so we have nothing to show for it Gide Johnson i mean you're actually not far from it is a reality because if you look at the 2023 budget as much as that budget is not one that we are we have the capacity to fund we don't have what it takes to fund the budget so it means we're going to borrow but in the content of the budget if you look at it some of the you know content of that budget is not for the national interest but for personal interest especially with the house you know the national assembly increasing allocation from 59 billion to 288 or there about a billionaire but let's move away from that conversation would always have that and we'll continue to talk about these issues until we get to a point where it sticks and that would mean that we have taken the right action and taken the right decision now two senior lawyers want EFCC scrapped abacuba is part of them and he's made several argument that's on the the uh patch newspaper this morning now according to him he said that the economic and financial crimes commission should not have been in existence he stressed that the commission currently operates outside of the constitution however the reference is that it does not have the power to interfere with the activities of state government and so because it's a creation you know of the federal government they can't interfere the argument is almost you know it's lengthy there are too many issues that he's raised but i'd like to share your thoughts on that what do you think should EFCC be scrapped well i mean between i mean between in the sense that and the EFCC mandate for me has focused on prosecution other than prevention why do they wait for these crimes despite we having these agencies we have seen that most state government most agencies of government at both state federal and local government level are not complying with financial regulations with respect to their words of contract and the rest of it what are the systems that you are putting please to forestall that they are all what we see the EFCC coming out to tell us that this presents to 20 billion 10 billion the question we ask is when did they start how did they get there what were these agencies and what are they doing were they not tracking the accounts of these individuals were they not tracking the accounts of the federal government so beyond arrest and prosecution what steps are they taking to forestall that that for me is an area where i question the existence of EFCC because it's economic and financial crime so in what way are they are they to ensure that these people don't damage the economy before it becomes the financial crime now someone is an account general of the federation it's meant to ensure that the allocations and money put in for are distributed and sent to various different agencies of government you have the general of the federation so these are these these these are 50 cards that you put in place out for EFCC to work with this with these visual services and you have the people able to ensure that there is intelligence and compliance with financial revisions other than coming out and arresting people at the end of their tenure parading them and engaging in these attire so means here's the engagement in human shift and doing the actual work so if you look at it from that perspective yes i think there's a link for us to scrap EFCC because at the end of the day um how many how many cases have been successfully constituted particularly with respect to financial crime at the state federal and local government and local government level compared to cases that are prosecuted for people engaging in in other if we're us activity advances from and the rest and the rest of the world and then if you also look at it was the federal government established when it has not been domesticated across the state so if you look at it from that perspective there can be an argument from some lawyer that they cannot use an agency of that government it can only apply in the future any proof we do have a system of government and like it can only apply at that level okay but um what about some of the consents that he has raised the fact that the EFCC is a creation of the national assembly and it doesn't have the power to interfere with the activities of the state government so i think you have that you know so it means you know some things i think um can stay i think i'm adjusted or some other things you know they have their own EFCC and by by statues of federal government all of this is meant to have domesticated this agency for it to be for it to to to agree but you know when it was established we asked he should bring three leaders as head of state to some things who are railroad and those are the for me 15 of other if you are if you are talented then probably you wouldn't have wanted gone this in the end the needs to have domesticated each of the state has to ascend the needs to have to have ascended to to to that to that that that that established EFCC at the federal level for it to operate at the state level so i agree with you that with that argument yes not that about that but you know there are a lot of things that we do in this country that are not followed with due process and then we just allow you to fly over time the garden newspaper says uh expat are asking the government to tame inflation in security and feel subsidy uh according to this expat this problem i just chart the cost for 2023 uh do you really agree with this uh expat yeah we need to be with inflation we need to be in security on the EU of foreign subsidy is not going to be the position of your hand because you look at the afternoon players that at the federal level to be worth price of position they said the government was not doing anything on subsidy and they came on board in that sense we need to the major factor that had to populate their party to popularize their movement was the was the was the first of subsidy a protest of 2012 and which but the the problem for general administration then so if you look at if you show no that about that you have the immediate impression in security about that it is practically impossible for people to travel freely across the length and breadth of this mission on the subsidy i don't know whether we are paying subsidy or we are not paying subsidy the the fact in the end is that we are not buying the foil at the same price at different price stations some are telling me 325 some are telling me 350 some are saying 170 so we don't need government's opinion on opening because we don't have a true picture here no transparency when it comes to the major foreign exchange for this mission which is the oil and gas sector the oil and gas sector is under the office of the president because the president himself is also the minister of the kingdom he doesn't have any minister of steel so for me i don't know what the experts are saying with respect to the experts in that area they can see but we need to deal with inflation there's no doubt about that we need to deal with insecurity and these are the kind of questions we need to ask people that have come in into the presidency i asked i am following the campaign clear since it is only presidential candidate we just go and spend 60 seconds 60 to 90 seconds ask them to clean the music that they want to dance and turn them and tell them go for me i will i will solve your problem without antiquity without thinking what will be the policy it was and people will shout and then they will scream and then that is that the end of it it across the party across the party with a session of one party across the party what you see they are coming in to go together to go together clean music for them entertain them make them to forget about their problem and lose their sense of wisdom for some time rise on their emotions and then at the end of the day this past and then they begin to share the the the vision of of of their campaign talking about the mama's crowd jenia johnson you know how these things are done it's not done you know if you have if you have never been involved in politics you understand you mobilize from the local government you use these resources to do that and the local government here who you have them is official each of the local government let me see very quick kind of for example you have for the foreign government each of the local government you have them to come with one thousand people they mobilize this one thousand people they give them and some some some amount of money the red boss jenia johnson you have for the four thousand already in the in the stadium so you these are the things that don't jenia just before we close this conversation down we're out of time this will just be the last quickly i'd like to get your reaction on this ban by the nigerian financial intelligence unit saying that it's limiting or it's banning the withdrawal from the federal government state and local government account from match you know the first 2023 you have that body you have that body what i've done what he's been doing before match the question i asked is and then the question i've asked from the intention of this administration when you are going about saying that the new government is fighting corruption and i said okay the only fighting corruption on the basis of news report i have not seen constructive steps it is a systemic effort for you to fight corruption what are the steps that we are putting in place what are the measures now um that nothing has changed in terms of in terms of process and procedure as that our people um disboss and access access and disboss public funds that you might be sure that at the end of this administration corruption in this administration we're much more than what people are talking about on the internet and i'm sorry to have been proven right over time because there are the safety guards that you are putting in place to post up an individual keeping his hand into the cooking gap the question you ask is what are they doing what have they been doing to prevent people from keeping their hand into the national force into the state force or to the local government force so you have these bodies that are existing on paper that are paper tiger that are not doing what they are supposed to do and that's why we have found out that we did that right so why are they with this much much much less 2022 to do what they have been assigned to do okay well uh let's see how all of that pans out orders have said that this is just another backing dog uh without the capacity to implement it and so uh you have raised valid questions uh gd johnson but we have to let it go at this point uh because we need to move on thank you so much for being part of the uh show this morning after press we look forward to sharing more of your thoughts and more critical issues of national interest thank you messy once again i've been here to have you as a member of the world and i've been here to you and kofi okay all right then gd johnson has joined us this morning but we we have to leave it at that and off the press would return on monday and of course the headlines would always be interesting because it's an election year we take a break when we return we'll have some more conversations please the brass