 bring you down first right guys okay are you guys ready for this amazing debate that is going to happen very soon and tonight we are going to invite a very very tech expert to talk about the stocks that a lot of us have in mind because recently Warren Buffett just sold like 86 percent stake of his of his holdings on this TSMC right so how many of you are excited to learn more tonight I know it's a little bit late okay but because we can only manage to have this person scheduled at this late hour okay so if you're excited to learn can you type me in the chat okay in the meantime let me just make sure that everybody can hear us okay so that we can we can get ready okay so if you can hear us can you type me in the chat if you're excited to learn just let me double check everything is okay ah okay some of you guys are showing Elaine me as well okay some of the Facebook user I don't know where because you never connect okay maybe you can connect then I can get to see your name also okay I see okay fantastic okay Google good I can see oh you are typing in as well so many people are super excited and without further ado right let's invite our very very expert in terms of the tech sector because he himself runs a tech business and that's why to him basically he he leaves and briefs tech every single day and that's why he has a lot of insights into uh not not just like like like like the the as an investor reading annual reports right on top of that he has a lot of experience dealing with the actual business of the tech sector as well and that's why there's none other than our banana vester can here as well good evening everyone good evening everyone good to see you can while I realize that you have transformed a lot as well in your outlook really yes you become so young like so much younger as compared to if you see kens uh sharing maybe one year ago he he was wearing a tie a suit and then like black hair everything right now he he looked 10 years younger what what well it's a very good transformation okay thank you thank you okay so some of you guys are guessing Jeremiah well maybe the next time I can invite Jeremiah here as well Terry said market never sleeps exactly so tonight we are going to debate about TSMC so shall we we have the boo versus the bear guess who is the boo who is the bear okay you think if you think Chloe is the boo type cb okay am I uh enough of the joke okay but then of course I am more bullish towards CSMC and Ken will have he some of his counter arguments as well but once again I think Ken also will have some additional insight that he was trying to share yeah this is actually also a holder of TSMC but uh today I will be sharing some of the fact that we should be wary on we need to be aware uh so that we won't get surprised when when things change that's right that's right okay so let's get started I'm just going to share my slides first okay hold on now it is I I should I should present and then share screen right okay hold on all right there we go okay so if you guys can see my screen clearly can you type whose face do you see from uh my share screen okay whose face are you seeing from my share screen so I'm also checking my live uh just to make sure everybody can see my screen clearly also okay got it yes I can see it clearly as well so you can see Warren Buffett right and I think this is also the questions that many people have right because Warren Buffett you can see that he reduced recently if you check guru focus right all this information actually you can also find it online right but then you can see that TSMC he reduced by a significant 86 percent reduction right so that's why I think that that's actually quite shocking right quite shocking in terms of it's quite uh not so Warren Buffett style that we know of because usually Warren Buffett he's like a long-term like invest in a company and that's why suddenly when he's such a reduction and and somehow this this investment in TSMC was just very recent if I'm not wrong just last year a few months ago is that right Ken yeah couple like yeah couple of quarter two or three quarters at most correct yeah so so that that I think that's how causing a lot of concern uh to investors as well as that that's why also within one day TSM after the announcement of the news that Buffett slashing like 86 percent of stake right he's still holding on to it but just that little bit right so that's why I got a lot of people concerned but then people say that our recently uh today Warren the TSMC get what right so let's take a look at uh why do we think that uh Warren Buffett actually uh decided to sell away TSMC but before we review our answer right maybe you guys can share with us why do you think Warren Buffett uh oh decided to sell off TSMC and in the meantime do you guys know that we have one more special guest okay that special guest actually today we have this very late timing 11 p.m right because really no choice not just Ken can can actually he lives in Malaysia we are in the same time zone but this amazing lady investor she lives all the way in the U.S. okay guys how many of you would love to really listen the Buffett right hear her opinion and and understand why do you think Warren Buffett is doing this if you love to have the Buffett with us today you guys are really in for treat okay you love that can you type marry in a chair okay exactly okay some of you guys can see let's invite Mary to be out hi mary hi mary mary for coming for together with us okay wow wow i think like they all go crazy right now they'll be like mary and then there's an explanation about mary well so lucky exactly okay so we always give you guys extra extra bonuses so we have mary together with us and we are also very keen to really find out what does mary think about the current situation and from her point of view uh why do you think what Warren Buffett actually recently sold off 86 percent of the of the stake right and in fact right now it's super early for mary her time zone is i think 13 hours difference was is that right yeah seven in the morning here seven in the morning so that's why we do 11 p.m so while you guys are in for treatment because you are committed to come and that's why you seem very here as well okay too many people excited mary okay good let's go okay let's go back to the sharing in terms of why do we think Warren Buffett sell away so much so many tsmc stocks i think nevertheless we can never really guess the reason but we can only make some assumption and deduction and i think there are so many reasons why he could be selling away so this is just some of our opinions for you to take into consideration right before you make any form of investment decision i think it's very important you go through this thought process okay so uh in my opinion when i am just looking through some of the uh uh statistics and research when i do tsm of course there are certain risks faced by tsm right one of the things is like increasing competition uh we know that there are other players as well inside this semiconductor industry some song one of them it's actually like kind of like a rising rising opponent as well which i think can is going to share with us later also there's also like technical technological complexity it's not something that uh it's because the cost of inventing and making the chip smaller and smaller better and better it's getting more and more complex and higher as well and that could be another reason right or it could be supply chain disruption due to the borders reopening right now seems to be better but uh then some people also concerned about geopolitical research china concerned everything i thought can cool say that uh china is invading china is invading taiwan is that right can cool you need to come to singapore anyway so uh k before i asked marie right out of these five risks which risks do you think are are the major risks in your opinion that maybe warren buffett considered that and caused it caused him to sell off such a big stake okay so so uh there are two parts here okay so so actually you're saying like the major risk that uh caused the warren buffett to sell right okay i think uh i would like to answer like a major risk uh in general for ts mc first okay and i think that will be the the about competition okay competition and being leadership in the technology yeah so so in my opinion right ts mc's strengths come from there being the leader being the leader in what they do okay and they used to have a very big gap uh compared to most of the competitor okay and if any competitor actually starts to catch up or over tech ts mc right then this will be a very very big trouble for them okay yeah but in terms of why uh but shall i head away sell ts mc right okay uh i have some kind of uh conspiracy theory right okay yeah but the conspiracy theory is that they are insider insider okay this is actually an insider uh trade oh you mean like because they think that the price is going to run up and then that's why they buy before the run up uh not really not really okay because you who uh let me ask you who is the largest customer of ts mc apple yeah exactly okay and uh who is the largest shareholder of apple exactly right okay and uh just to show you right one news right okay just recently right apple reportedly has reduced its tfmc order by as many as like 102 20 000 waffles okay so so uh i i i have no idea this represent like how many percent or what like this 120 000 waffles but it looks like it's a quite a significant order reduction so do you think it is it's apple going to make their own chips but it's so so expensive to even set up this kind of facility and all that uh uh i don't think they are making their own chip okay they had they said that they're already making their own chip so called okay they're already making their own chip so so they have been known to make their own chip okay but but uh it's actually designing yeah designing that's enough branding like everybody now know that apple makes their own chip okay but behind who really manufacture it doesn't really matter to the consumer right yeah so so uh what i think is actually uh the the demand softening okay the demand softening with the inflation all this right okay yeah so because all this is actually from ts mc earning report what ts mc management have been sharing okay and the ts mc guidance okay guidance for the next quarter for q one two oh two three also going down a lot can that mean right compared to previous years right just mc have been always going going going going but now is like like when we see facebook right guided down for the very first time ever right there's a lot of investor actually panic okay and this is now is what have happening right okay just mc actually guided down next the the next quarter q one two oh two three and and the guidance is actually uh it actually says that the revenue if you look at it as a whole year kind of thing right uh but you shorten it to quarterly like if you time for like the whole year is like dropped by what 20 percent around 20 over percent kind of reduction and what what they say is actually based on because of the uh partly caused by the supply chain issue which was a history okay supply chain issue was a history now okay it's no longer not so much of a risk yeah it's already normalized right but yes we have caused the stock inventory in a lot of their customer because of this supply chain issue right a lot of the customer have been stopped up stopped up they're buying more than they should right so that they won't run out of the chips to make their phone or whatever things right okay and because now the supply chain is normalizing then like now is they're having this thing called the supply chain correction sorry inventory correction okay so they want to normalize their warehouse their stock their stock in the inventory right because now supply chain is normalizing yeah and also the all the softening demand especially on consumer sector so so softening demand on the consumer sector right then we can see that it relates very much to apple right because it's all consumer yeah so so in my opinion the one of the the main reason right that tsmc this is my opinion uh the tsmc reduce order cancel some order is because of the demand softening and because world part of the sharehead away they are they're no first hand that apple is going to cancel the order so this is just a conspiracy theory that this is like they have insider news right okay yeah so so like demand going down and if you look at the the the amount that they sell 86% okay yeah it's a lot okay it's it's like telling people like okay i make a decision and then my decision is wrong then i undo it yeah this is wrong the first time has a very perspective like i don't want to say warren buffer because like you maybe it's not warren buffer's decision is his team is his successor yeah but mary mary seems like she has something to say like the way she look at you yeah i think ken is right i mean there's no way with the amount of of apple stock that warren and the guys berkshire owns there's no way that something major that's happening inside of apple that they don't know about that's true you know i mean they're they're contact with people that are running the company are making the big decisions who knows they might have been even part of the decision that was being made so um i totally agree with ken i i think that it's not just an insider uh you know that it's not it's not crazy i think that absolutely you know uh it makes more sense to me that they would know the not if if if apple is making this big of a change they would know that right what you're thinking yeah so so uh my guess my guess is uh i i i like to say that uh my guess is that the software the the demand is of the name because uh i do not wish that it is something uh worse right okay the something worse is that uh apple may may actually uh start to go to samsung to source the the advanced cheat right but so far there's nothing yet okay there's nothing yet on the news on the net okay uh so i cannot find anything so for now the the demand softening is the the one of the main primary reason that i i can think of okay okay i think that's a very interesting point and then ken ken is asking that wow i'm surprised is that illegal anyway uh if we go back right let me let me just give some context to our students and audience here right in terms of um uh tsmc's revenue by platform you will see that why this concern is actually valid in terms of what ken was suggesting just now in terms of oh because there is softening in demand then that could be are you supposed to share your screen or something yeah i'm trying to share my screen hold on let me just find back my slides first yes here you go so you can see that in terms of the revenue stream uh 39 percent comes from smartphone right and then uh 41 percent comes from hpc which is high performance computing while the rest of the segment even though they does contribute but it's a very small percentage be it your automotive your iot so uh that's why ken said that if the if the demand from a smartphone and as well as the hpc start to slow down especially from the smartphone that's where the revenue will be impacted by a lot as well but i'm also very curious because just now ken you were mentioning about the the rise of samsung which right now they have this technological breakthrough of uh was it three nanometers yes three nanometers yeah so so but what do you think because we all know we always know that tsmc is very strong in terms of their their technological development right they are they are either in this space and they are also developing their three nanometers right but you said that maybe apple can consider well consider using samsung if if samsung does come out with a better option but do you not think that you know apple and samsung they are quite competitive in nature right in terms of they are selling pretty similar products but then tsmc they he like like this company is acting as a supporting role it doesn't conflict with apple's revenue so that is why i think apple will be more more willing to actually collaborate with tsmc their patent that technology because they actually protect their their their their ip and everything right versus collaborating with samsung review what is your plan so so in this sense right uh it is very less likely that apple will go to samsung yeah so but but then if samsung really have something up his sleeve it's really have a breakthrough right then if you make apple start to think and it will give apple an option okay so it's still unlikely in terms of like they're being a competitor all that right okay yeah yeah and and and a lot of time samsung they are not able to produce enough uh how to say they're not able to produce enough uh uh chips for their own use okay so the likelihood of apple buying from samsung right okay uh it's uh it's pretty low i will say it's pretty low but it doesn't mean that uh samsung being able to break through and over tech uh tsmc right will be negligible because apple won't be won't be buying from samsung do you agree with me so it's just one you see a big hit you see be a big hit to tsmc oh yeah yeah mary you have anything to add well it would be a big hit but i think that the you know tsmc has such superior technology that um and and you know we were talking you're talking about the economics of industry are shifting to that um even though there are people pushing tsmc to build local production it's local production capabilities um it will be interesting because we'll see if if it affects its costs yeah yeah i think mary is talking about because right now with the geopolitical like like like environment china us and all this and that's why so many countries are are pushing tsmc to set up factories elsewhere right instead of just taiwan there could be like there's some in us some in japan and all this we all know that the cost will be so much higher and that's why it will reduce the margin of the the tsmc is enjoying right now and that could be one of the potential concern by berkshire hathaway and warren buffer as well uh do do you think so very okay actually this is actually this is one of the the area i want to bring up okay yeah like like i'm being like uh assigned as the bear roll here right okay so so i need to uh bring up all the this concern right okay yeah so so i've actually uh been following tsmc for many years okay and years many years back right there have been like uh lured lured by the u.s government right to set up uh the the plan in arizona okay why why use the word lured right okay it's because they will promise very generous subsidy okay because tsmc know that if they build a plan in us right the cost is much higher and the main power the wages everything is much higher compared to where they're operated in taiwan okay so they uh with all this subsidy the being promised right then they okay agree to come they they get the land they start to build okay and then uh we can see last year the the chairman of tsmc have been like uh complaining right making noise saying that wow that they actually still cannot get any money at all while intel already being promised a large sum of the subsidy and i think uh some other foundry basically they're like they're trying to give priority to the u.s based company for the for the subsidy yeah so after that there's no more news about this subsidy but it seems like tsmc is forced to continue and now they are building the second plan and while and and during the earning earning conference call right all these analysts from goldman sat and and a lot of those uh institution that keep keep questioning tsmc right and i don't see tsmc can give a very convincing answer on uh how these uh additional cost will be addressed how the margin will be maintained right they keep insisting they will get the similar margin they will achieve a similar margin you still be healthy right but then they're also admitting yes the cost will be much higher if there's nothing they're doing about that they're doing they're they're literally they're doing nothing about that okay no answer been given on how to address the much higher cost because the comparison the gap is very big right but if you build and operate in taiwan and you build an operating u.s right it's much higher the cost yeah yeah i think if you look at the margin right now i mean tsmc in terms of their margin it's definitely way higher than all its competitors right it's like gross margin is like close to 70 percent and then their operating margin is 35 percent so so which uh i think based on one of the research i saw it they are like at least two times two times higher than its competitors and in terms of like the market share right now uh tsmc's market share basically it's like more than more than half of the market share is it's been been uh led by tsmc so don't you also think that if that's the case right even despite that there will be increasing costs right because the factories everything manufacturing had to be brought overseas but because they have such a thick margin they have this ability to also absorb right like like like imagine if you ask other companies to do so they may not be able to do because their margin is so much thinner but tsmc has this ability what do you think uh can and marry yeah so uh uh definitely true okay like a healthy margin and a better margin 10 competitors right it's like a weapon okay it's like a weapon yeah it's a weapon or a bullet that you can actually use in the needy times okay in the needy times like for example tesla okay tesla they have a much better margin compared to the competitor right and that's why they can afford to cut price right when china totally abolished the subsidy for electric vehicle in january last month right then tesla they actually uh uh they can afford to cut the price so that they can maintain the price to the consumer okay and other other EV makers such as the nio x-ping they all was like crying or their their sales suffer like 60 percent because of tesla price cut yeah so so in a way uh it is definitely an advantage of a mode when you're when you have pricing power okay yeah just that uh i am not sure is this uh additional capital spending right is it in the best interest or or because uh or is it really in in the best way to be spent this additional capital right like i said they were lured by the u.s government from the general subsidy and then the subsidy never happened okay so so in a way a lot of investors also believe that uh they're kind of like being conned into you as yeah so sorry sorry yeah yeah so so this is what i see the general investor uh some of them is is actually thinking like they think this is the tsm situation is in yeah yeah if they want to diversify their their geographical uh present right there is actually a lot of choices as well okay yeah such as uh india such as uh uh some some other country like u.s definitely you need tax spread like like when uh at that time uh uh biden uh trump sanctioned china china right and then they actually start to give a lot of incentive tax spread the the stimulus in order to to get all the the u.s company come back to us to to start to build the manufacturing right yeah so so this thing is very important right the subsidy the the the so so i hope i hope tsmc will eventually get what they are promised like else else uh uh uh you definitely affect their margin okay unnecessary i see i'm also very keen to find out how mary viewed the whole situation like like what's your what's the thought process in terms of like when you see warm buffer slashing like 86 percent of stake you know um yeah what what do you think about this situation now like as an investor uh let's say a lot of people probably right now uh probably are shareholders of tsmc or maybe they are new to tsmc what do you think is the better approach wow i mean once again here here's a perfect example this isn't this is an industry uh that i i don't really understand i'm not you know and and that's really important because that's one of the reasons why i wouldn't have invested or i didn't in tmc tsmc um you know even though by own berkshire berkshire does what it wants personally this is not a company that i'm too familiar with or the whole semiconductor technology you know that that that area is not one for me probably can and or you chloe are more involved in that um but i'm really not so you know if if warren slashing it i think we just have to look at the obvious things like what are its uh largest you know uh the people who they're competing at the competitors who are their competitors um what you know what else is is affecting them the risk right the risks exactly um you know warren slashing his holdings it doesn't mean that tsmc is a is a no-go it's just right for kim you know uh because it could it still could be a very good investment um but let's you know i think you just have to look at a lot you have to look at it a lot deeper right yeah and i i think like how many of you agree with what mary just said like you invest within your circle of competence uh if you agree that can you type c o c in the chat like circle of competence because i think a lot of times like investors uh we are very attracted to companies that uh have can have a lot of like dominant playing you know like leader leadership in this industry but sometimes we may not really understand it well and that's when um it become dangerous and because when the price start to fall and that's why people will start to question right because we don't understand this company well enough in this first place right but you can see from from how can analyze the whole company just now you can see oh he actually very deep inside you know and he has been following this company for a long time and so on so that is the kind of uh like like like i think passion that he has towards this company and that's why he will keep on following right and and that's how when he see that right now there's more risk and the price has not dropped to a very decent level he may not want to add some more or or and i think i think that that's your i think that's the approach that ken is having right now right can you will not see it as an opportunity to add more yet right isn't it right now uh i'm on the sideline okay waiting for more development okay yeah actually i like to share more about the the potential trap that i thought about right okay can you can you share my screen yeah so so i think uh by now a lot of you should have no right like in the semiconductor especially the about the the performance of the chip right the smaller it is the better it is right and like you can see from the right to the left sorry to the from the left to the right it's actually getting smaller and smaller okay and the smaller is it the more power and energy efficient and more powerful it is because in the same amount of space you can actually uh squeeze in more transistor okay and when you when you use less space you will have you actually generate less heat you you you use less power as well so tsmc has been the leader in this right they're always ahead of the converter all this year right okay yeah but there is also another aspect beside this uh the size of the transistor right so currently like both tsmc and samsung right they are around okay they are around at the similar uh uh progress right in this regard okay in this regard on shrinking the size of the transistor however right the method where they stack the transistor right okay uh on the on the left okay on the left is actually this thing called fin fact okay fin fact is actually the current generation okay current generation of the technology in how they stack the transistor and these are on the right side get all around okay or they're called gaa right it's actually the next generation where it will further improve the performance okay that means same transistor size right okay if both tsmc and samsung is at three and m but let's say uh and and and the gaa will get better performance and power efficiency compared to fin fact okay fin fact is the current generation gaa is the next generation it is but according to tsmc gaa is uh a lot more difficult to implement okay and for their three and m they are staying with fin fact okay they're staying with fin fact the current technology and because of this right they managed to get very good yield okay very good yield what uh they use the word yield because it's like uh the like in the agriculture right you plan the crop right and then like if like 50 percent of your crop uh gone because of pests because of uh animals right then your yield is 50 percent so fin fact using fin fact right will give them much better yield on each of their warfare okay yeah because every time they produce the the chip in a warfare right okay a certain percentage will go back yeah a certain percentage will go back okay and and the and using fin fact allow them to maintain the high yield okay and the yield is actually achieved very high so that they have a much better production and that's why you see right uh where apple they need the the a lot a lot of these high end three and m uh chip right they will they will go for tsmc okay they'll go for tsmc okay and and then some so actually they go challenge tsmc they actually go they actually pair the three and m we get all around okay get all around so uh and and actually they're actually announced since last year june that they're going to start the mass production and how however there are multiple reports saying that their yield is very bad okay because it's much harder it's totally new technology uh in this industry so so the yield is very bad they they cannot really uh produce uh enough okay enough uh you uh have good enough you to to have a very good output of the actual usable of the chip so this is actually uh some of the reason update just two weeks ago okay it looks like samsung they are ramping up okay they're ramping up they they actually uh uh cutting the the support on the older technology right okay they're cutting the production older technology uh older means like the five and m seven and m okay to actually uh focus more uh to boost the three and m chip production so so uh that's why i said coming months right coming months uh we we may see uh samsung start to uh have a mass production uh devices probably their new smartphone to start to use this a three and m chip which is supposedly to be more superior than tsmc's and it will actually uh uh make apple right you know apple always like to say uh like this uh new apple i would have the most advanced chip right the fastest chip most power efficient right okay and if samsung is there they are successfully come up uh in time to to compete with apple using the three and m chip right then uh probably the apple cannot say the same thing again this this year yeah that's what could be happening okay yeah this is one of the potential trap in term of the technology leadership that that is why you are more like at the wait and see kind of approach to really see how does the development of the samsung chips or so right before you decide a whether is it's like uh like like it's a permanent kind of impact or not right yeah yeah yeah so so their problem comes at both sides like like like apple sorry tsmc they stay with the older tag but then they get a better yield but then they lose out on the performance okay samsung they may have a break too they may have a uh they will actually make put their name as the first to do the gga three and m gga but then they will have limited run of the product right they may have a shortage on on the end production of the three and m chip interesting okay i think this is a very good question from charlene as well right how much to study a company to say that you know it well within your circle of competence i think this question uh both ken and mary can can address like for ken like how how how much do you study before you feel that you know it well before we get married to answer uh i don't i don't believe that uh just studying a company right will improve my circle of competence okay yeah in order for me to improve the circle of competence right like like for example right if i want to really uh uh understand tsmc right okay i cannot just study tsmc i have to study i have to follow the entire industry as a whole i need to study samsung okay i need to study uh uh the the x md foundry the i forgot the the name already now they spin off of md right yeah i studied all the top found top foundry out there that that do their own uh uh semiconductor fabrication right yeah i totally agree um it's not just studying one company but the industry i mean that's the that's the problem i mean that's what i'm saying i'm not familiar with this industry in general because i've never been interested in it to be honest with you even though it affects my life it's just nothing that i've you know been involved with other that i mean unlike for instance you know other industries like candy or food industries are you know the these are things that i totally understand so um that's what makes this a little bit more difficult as an investor for me because you really have to you know the proprietary designs and things like that you really have to understand what the other people are doing what their competitors are doing and so um if you're not into it look at something else you know it's always doesn't have anything to do with the company more than your own comfort and it kind of just remind me what Warren Buffett said like like oh i think it's Charlie Munger as well right if you don't understand then uh if it's too complicated just keep it right just keep it and move on to something that you understand and that's how they invest with i think certainty with clarity and that peace of mind as well is that right Mary yeah absolutely i mean and and i think everyone should use that as a good example because why invest in something that you don't understand you know when there's so many things that you do understand that you could invest in so look around um for other ways to invest you know that's a very good point yeah wow okay so before we wrap up we just want to bring up one final thing about like like in terms of TSM because it does give out dividends right so i also want to very keen to hear from Ken uh like do you think actually you know that give you that kind of uh confidence or like a bonus point to buy into TSMC because right now for TSMC the price uh with the current share price it's about giving about 2 percent yield right in terms of yield and then in terms of development grow for the past so many years because it's been so consistent in paying out dividends since like 2004 right so close to 20 years on increasing payout every single time and the payout ratio is also very reasonable that just the dividend compounded growth rate that's like kind of like 20% right i think that that is really really good in terms of if those are interested in dividend investing do you think that uh right now with a 2 percent yield it's something that's attractive especially the T ratio of a TSMC right now is like about 14 times right which is also lower than its five year yeah short answer yes definitely yes yeah especially uh uh earlier on right what i said earlier on right when earlier on you're actually when you look at TSMC right you are buying a growth company okay it's not a high growth company it's established with a long history of a strong management strong cash flow strong uh strong financial right okay that give a healthy evident and still growing okay at a two-digit figure okay two-digit figure so so so i would say is it's a no-brainer investment okay but uh currently okay currently if you look at shorter term then you see that oh next year is not so exciting right suddenly you see like it's not a growth it's not growing anymore if you just look at the the next year protection right forecast right but if you look at longer term right for me uh i still see that in the longer term just mc is still very strong they should continue to grow okay and uh there's uh in no way there we'll actually uh get a sub kind of some kind of disruption like uh chat gpd or microsoft being to google kind of disruption right even though like uh my uh samsung right uh this kind of a technology break too right okay it's like uh they are catching up to catching up and maybe over tech TSMC a little bit right it's like not in big trouble like chat gpd trade to google kind of trade yeah so it's not as worrying as uh that right yeah yeah that's how i want to put it in perspective so long term when you see that the future of like development of technology improving iot automobiles so like like like this could be like a driverless car auto automobiles and all these all these all these needs uh these chips right and yeah digital infrastructure is ever-growing right and what is the latest hype right chat gpd right ai okay and if ai really fly off right okay what powers ai right it's also all this that they need they need even more powerful computer to power the ai right and all these come to like the if continue the reliance on uh chip right like you lay off uh programmer you lay off engineers right but you need more and more chips you need more and more powerful chips that's for sure i see yeah so that's why right now shorter term you are you are concerned about like next year's uh this year's performance but then long term you are still bullish about the company is that right yes yes okay that's very interesting uh how how about you mary like what's your view uh and like what you said like like uh if you like what mary said like if you don't understand an individual company or individual sector i mean that definitely there are other sectors to invest in so for you your approach will be since you don't understand you will you will more in kind of just stay away is that correct that's right you know i mean there's no reason for me to if i don't understand that there's no reason for me to spend all the time learning about that's market and so on when there's so many things that i do understand that i could invest so uh for me it's just it's that it's that simple it's interesting i mean looking up this company is very interesting and it's always great to see an individual company um but as i said i just i don't invest uh in things that that i'm not very familiar with yeah even if warren is investing and a lot of people this is a big mistake they'll be like oh if warren buffett's buying it you know i'm going to buy it and or if he's selling it i'm going to sell it this is really not the way to do investing you know you have to understand it yourself otherwise you're involved yeah wow wow amazing okay guys so so so far we have almost close to like uh an hour of sharing can you type down your greatest learning right from this sharing so far and and especially we have married to be here together with us i think she would love to also see what do you learn from our sharing so far right and if you do feel that whatever things that we have been sharing useful then uh make sure that you also practice right what we share practice within your circle of competence uh most importantly really understand what you invest in and you don't have to force yourself into investing in something that if you don't understand right and you can see for ken he he himself really just not just understanding tsmc alone but he understand going really going read out and research on all the different competitors as well the whole industry and you can see he he really knows the sector very well and that's how he has the conviction to to to invest in right so some of people say invest within your circle of competence very good we need to say make it simple fantastic all right and then one facebook user say ah good start to execute option trades okay so make sure you you you know what you're doing before you're executing any or form of investment as well broad view of the industry fantastic okay so i think we have coming to an end of this don't waste time on the things that you don't know wow i think that that is a wisdom from mary as well okay so before we read up all right maybe mary okay you have any uh special insight or special final golden insights that you want to share with the with the team before we enter into uh 2000 and 2023 february 2024 now i'm just okay anyway just 10 minutes into midnight yes so ken and mary you have anything you want to share so before i let mary go first i just i think that what what we were just talking about knowing what you're investing in is probably the most important thing so many times people will invest in things because they're stock broker as i said or a friend or they hear about it and they'll just be like oh yes i'm gonna invest it no no no invest in what you know and what you understand because it's it's for the the long term yeah helvin it's right what you're familiar with is what you can invest in and then you'll you'll most likely have good investments if you if you if other people are telling you oh this is a great investment but you're not familiar with it it's just better pass for me i would just pass on thanks mary for your wonderful sharing how about you from ken yeah just uh don't need to follow whatever uh what papa is doing yeah so uh we need to be uh uh we need to do uh we buy and we sell right we need to have our own reason uh okay yeah and uh we we also couldn't say that uh Warren Buffett also cannot guarantee that he won't make mistakes right okay what if you follow his move right and there is one of uh Warren Buffett's mistake right like he hold he hold uh uh so many position before right do you think like he he never uh he never made any uh uh loss in his holding on all the investment that he made so you may just have a copied one of his losing losing investment and then uh then then you cannot say that oh Warren Warren is a bad investor right that's right that's right yeah so that's why it's so important that like we don't just copy blindly right i'll also form our own opinions before making any form of the investment decision so that we can become an independent investor as well all right so fantastic all right thank you so much mary for coming here as well thanks ken for staying with us until so late and thanks everybody for be so committed in your own learning right it's almost midnight and then still have hundred hundred of you here learning together with us and thanks so much uh for joining us tonight and we will definitely have more discount insights for you also all right thanks everybody and really appreciate all your all your sharing as well so with that we'll see you in our next sharing and in the meantime invest safely and invest in what you understand all right we'll see you in our next sharing see you thank you bye bye