 George Bruna with a 21 report. We're at the 21 convention the final event of the decade, and I'm talking with Ken Curry Welcome. Thank you George. Appreciate it. Yeah Licensed marriage and family therapist. Yep married 35 years and three kids. Yeah, you have something to say about marriage, don't you? Yeah, it's a it's a pretty awesome thing. Yeah, it has changed my life It's been a source of incredible significance to me. It's it's been quite a journey How old are your kids? 33 my daughter's 33 Two sons 31 and 30. Okay. Yeah, excellent. That's how mine are my oldest is a daughter and then two sons. Yeah Yeah, excellent. So you did a workshop at the Patriarch Convention. I spoke at this one You are a rising voice and your voice is important in this organization Tell us about what angle you're coming from your work How watchers will benefit from this since digital is forever and people are going to be watching this five and ten years from now Yeah, so I feel like I have a significant thing to speak on that has to do with the substance That's underneath the surface So much of what is said in at the convention even even the at the convention I feel like It's it's good. It's clear You know how to how to relate to women how to talk to women how to dress how to there's so many things that are they're Significant, but I feel like the thing that I want to bring to this whole thing is Something under the surface Something that has to do with the my core as a man The depth of who I am as a masculine individual So so like my talk this morning Really was about my identity and about how our identity is developed and how we listen to so many stories and narratives about who we are growing up and there's so many voices out there telling us who we are and what life's all about and Really powerful part of moving into becoming a strong Man with a really solid core of strong identity is being able to I call it That was in the title of my my talk was Who's telling your story and the whole concept of I? Need to be the one telling my story. I need to be the one to say this is who I am This is my identity and so I think at the core of everything if a man knows who he is In his being that he's good and that he he desires great things for himself and for his family for the world I just think it's a really really powerful thing for a man to start with that And starting to develop that really strong sense of self if a man doesn't tell his story By design then by default who ends up telling that story by default then Kind of part of my talk was it starts with your family of origin Your family of origin kind of teaches you the rules and the role that you play and and you're part of a system of Of that family and you pretty much have to go by what they what they say what they want and then different voices like school and teachers and Our culture and church and so many voices out there telling you what's good and what's not good Our culture is really horrendous right now what it's telling us about men men are toxic men are abusers men are oppressors and And it's just like is that true? And if I actually just believe it and kind of just go without being awake or aware of what's being told to me Then I end up with this identity And I'm kind of a I'm not good enough Something's deeply wrong with me or something's flawed And that's what so many men kind of have that general sense because they've listened to those voices so much Can you imagine if it was the other way around and there was a movement in the media talking about toxic femininity? Would that ever happen? Well, it kind of seems like it's not going to happen because it's kind of in our That's kind of where our culture is right now I don't want that to happen. I don't think femininity is toxic just like I don't think masculine at these talks, right? But it's unfortunate that that's the that's the message that's going out to our young men. Yeah That's a shame Prior to our talk here. You mentioned order disorder and reorder Is that applicable in a man's life? Oh my gosh Talk about that. Yeah, so they so the primary order And that's kind of what I was talking about was these are the things that I believe when I grow up when I have a certain order Because we all grow up in a certain family system, you know, it's and it's ordered. It's going a certain way There's a point in time every one of us, you know, you go over to Billy's house You know as a kid and you're going man, his family is totally different than mine and and you start to realize There's something different going on over there What's going on with my family? And so then as you as you continue to age you start going what this order is Isn't necessarily as healthy as what I want. This isn't necessarily where I want to go or this isn't the life that I want to live and so then and Sometimes it's pretty tough The whole for this order piece because because something has to change and so the disruption of how this happens I work with a lot of guys. I do a lot of men's groups and And so a lot of guys will they'll go through the Change changing their heart changing their soul changing where they want to go changing their narrative, that's probably the most important part of this and And and they start changing how they move in life. Sometimes it blows everything up Unfortunately, sometimes their wives go along right with them like mine did my wife totally went through the changes And we are loving it She is loving being married to me and we have a great relationship And so the thing about it is is that disorder Can be really rough, but sometimes we can actually go together and create a new order on a new foundation And a lot of a lot of couples that I'll work with, you know, they'll say we want back what we used to have and I go No, you don't you don't want what you used to have You want to create something new on a completely different foundation and that's really what we want to be able to do Interesting we had talked about Louis Smedes who said my wife has been married to five different men and All five of those men were me were me There is no doubt part of the part of my talk this morning I shared a couple stories one of the stories was and it was funny because it really dated how old I am But the whole idea of going into a video store. Yeah, right? I Used to be scared So badly with what the girl who was sitting there what she would think of what I picked for a video Right, right, because I was so externally referenced and so worried about what other people think Yeah, and so that that that young man that boy in a sense I mean, that's who my wife married initially and who I am now Oh, obviously the fifth sixth iteration of me. Yeah. Yeah, she's walked through this whole thing Yeah, with me. Absolutely. That's I love that quote. Yeah Yeah, that it made an impact on me. Yeah, because usually There's a lot of people talking about the changes that women go through and even when a woman Goes through that period later in life. We call a change of life. You don't hear that much anymore people don't say that phrase What do they call it now menopause they call it menopause in the old days Remember they would say it's when I go through my change that's right. Yeah, and everyone knew what that meant and Everyone changes in a marriage. We don't remain the same It is that I actually think that's one of the most profound parts of marriage or purposes. Yes The whole idea of the design of marriage is to grow us up to maturity Mm-hmm, and I think that's the whole process that we're talking about Yeah, is that I'm going to become a much more mature individual Because I've been married and when you're both on board with that where she's growing. I'm growing. It's it's pretty amazing. Yeah It is a badge of honor when you said you've been married 35 years. I look at that and I think I Probably will never be married for 35 years. You know if I got married today I'm not going to be married for 35 years to anyone. You know just with My longevity probably not most likely unless I live to a hundred. I don't know happened to my grandmother She was married for 50 years or so to three different men. Is that right? Okay? And she went she lived to a hundred did she really she did so he already spot on. Yeah, right, right What is it like What can you compare a 35 year marriage to is it seasons? Is it stages? What would you What other picture can you compare it to? That is a great question. I don't that's a tough question to ask on the spot Yeah, because definitely a seasons definitely stages because I remember, you know The kids were little or even the season that we had before we had kids Which wasn't too long. It's only a few years and then having little kids having The kids in grade school and then we did in the middle of that we did eight years of foster care as well And so five eight years of that so that was a totally different season and then as the kids were Going through college Because we had like the double boomerang where they would keep coming back Yeah, right and now they're all totally out so But yeah, we're at a totally different season of emptiness now But it's I don't know what metaphor I would use but it's just like and I don't even know what's next because there's gonna be another season and Well, you're beyond emptiness now. Yeah. Yeah, and now we're waiting for grandchildren Yeah, and so that's probably the next stage probably is absolutely, but it's been a lot of fun You know, I've seen my role as you know helping my kids get older I think one of the key things was making sure everybody had a college education and So my youngest had December of 2015. I think Graduated and then my wife graduated May of 2016 and so it's like my work is done And so it was great. It was that was a transition now everything's gravy, you know Now, let's see where we go from here get to kind of coast a little bit a little bit But the cool thing was that now I can actually start to move forward With what my passion is. Yeah, you know, I feel like that was a great season of my life to Get all get my kids grown and educated and now I'm really moving into the whole idea of working with men writing Doing things like this and and it's just been wonderful to be able to given be given a really good platform to be able to speak To be able to kind of have a really strong influence with the men because I'm so passionate about empowering men It's just that is so important to me So it's just really fun kind of being able to have this opportunity. It's awesome Who was your target market when it comes to the male demographic the young man? College age the newly married man the young father Who who do you think your message resonates with the most? That's a great question because I wanted to just answer the answer is yes Men I just want to I want to make sure men are able to understand because the whole idea of my speech is I didn't really think of that it would be this group. It's all men I want you to be able to understand who you are and what a man is Really, what's the truth about what a man is about who you are and we've listened to all these voices that have been lies and so so when you say that I Kind of think it's just a My target is and yeah old young I don't care yeah find out who you are and live from your solid core Yeah, yeah, that's what I want when you look out in the audience You know five years ago Four years ago. It was all young guys in the audience now. There is gray hair. Yeah in the audience a few guys Yeah, absolutely and so your message resonates with men in general And it's kind of interesting how a conference like this can touch a 60 year old man and touch a 20 year old absolutely Yeah, I think that's the brilliance of having the especially all the we call it the diversity of who we have because it's like Man, everything has diversity. There's ethnic diversity faith diversity the backgrounds, you know, you have you know, you have your the guys that are doing thinking of AJ with the working out and in Tanner with with fashion and and then me as a therapist and socrates as an architect and it's like There's so so much. It's just really fun to be part of such a diverse group of guys who just really love to be together Yeah, because there's a really singular focus. Yes Can you imagine being 50 or 60 and being divorced and having to start over again? We have a lot of those guys in the audience and who follow us. Yeah, what advice or what would you say to someone who's? Dreams crashed and they're starting over again. What would you tell that guy? Yeah, because they're going through what I call the void It's the void right here, right? It's just this place of emptiness. Everything is shaken up everything and and It's an opportunity To discover who you are The void is the place of Initiation and even if you're 60 it's like you're it's your place to find out that you actually have what it takes You actually have the goods that you're not so fragile that you're not going to die and so often we think that if I lose my relationship, especially if that Relationship was something I needed that in order to feel complete. I have to have the relationship That's that's me finding out that I'm okay Who I am and so just like the order disorder reorder It's like you're in a space of disorder Coming you will find a reorder. You're going to find your soul And you're going to be able to reclaim your life So many of the guys that I work with guys that are in my group and stuff They're going through some really tough times and it's really awesome to be able to watch a man Build his core get back to a really solid place and to be able to then Reestablish his life on a totally different platform Yeah, there's a lot of subgroups here. We have this fraternity of excellence. Yeah They seem like their 20s and 30s seems like young fathers that kind of thing. Yeah, it's kind of who hunter draws in Yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah Who would you say is the best candidate for the 21 convention? It's a great question best It's hard because to be able to qualify it with best I just the first thing that came into my head was just any man who was curious Yeah, I think that's the thing and there's so many men have this thing within them They know that they long for something different that they want something I know that I can be a different man. I know that I can be stronger. I know that I can There's something more out there and I think that curiosity that there's something more that I want That's the that's the man that I would I would love to I like that. Yeah For curious man many people Have thought this was a Organization for people who just went through a breakup or for the young guy that wants to go out there and pick up girls And that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, exactly for the man who was curious. Yeah, I See us going in a new direction marketing wise Curiosity yeah, so any man can attend a conference like this and benefit from it I'd believe so and that's why I love the diversity. There's so much you you're gonna hear so many different angles about what life's all About and what masculinity is about? Yeah Three years ago. I remember there was a gentleman here. He had tears in his eyes for the entire event And he came back The next year and the next year and I saw him here Hmm at this conference sitting up straight happy smiling not a tear within a thousand miles and I believe he might have just gone through a divorce or something like that at you know at that time happiness can be strong Confident and he was very fragile when he came here. Yeah, I remember during a Q&A period he couldn't even get a sentence out and Looking at him now. He's standing tall and he's still coming back and there's something here for him now that he has The reorder yeah in his life really starting the reorder. Yeah Absolutely Where do you feel that your message is the most? welcomed What do you think I? Haven't felt like my message is not welcomed You know, I know there's a lot of things that have gone on social media and everything But everybody I work with my colleagues at my home office the people Everybody's like you're doing good work. This is amazing. Yeah, what you're doing with my My writing I want to create I I would love to create a thing like Hunter has that has an online community as well just haven't done that yet, but So far it's like this is obviously to a lot of people something that is very much needed Women long for strong men. You see it all the time and And I think that's kind of Yeah, I haven't I haven't gotten the negative feedback people are like this is amazing. Yeah, we love it Well, yeah, and you're a writer. I am a writer I have so what I've done is I've I do men's groups So I've taken the material that I've developed over the years With my groups and the men that go through the curriculum that I have and I've put it into books So I have four books plan to have five And so, yeah, so I have these all available on Amazon and Yeah, I really enjoy writing and We'll see where this all goes But yeah, I want to develop more things to make have more a little bit more influence in the world of men Yeah, yeah all in the links for all of these books will be on this video as well Okay, great absolutely, and then of course this video will also appear on my YouTube channel and to my audience, which is not a It's not a male strictly male audience, and it's not a red pill audience. It's a it's really a very diverse audience I probably bring The most diversity to this group. Yeah than anyone at this point And I want to introduce this work to my people as well Do you have a favorite I know asking what is your favorite book is like asking what is your favorite kid kid? Yeah, right? Do you have one that just oh? You just bled all over the typewriter now. There's there's my age right there when I say typewriter All right, and that's what I was using George. Were you really? No gosh man, um All right, so That was tough man gotcha, so I know I know totally the Okay, so here All right the first one Awaking the internal is probably the most profound shift a man can take okay moving from External reference to internal reference living to what everybody else expects and what it's gonna make everybody else happy the External to internal what's gonna make me happy? What do I want? Where do I want my life to go? What's important to me? Easily the most profound shift the other one the other ones are important too, but my favorite the one I bled is Masculinity okay mastering the one you actually have up on the front here So the that feels like it's the one that if there if there's something that's going to really kind of I Feel like that's That kind of answer is a question. This this is the one here Are these sequential do people need to read these in order they help if they do that they are in order? They're pillar one two three and four, and then I'll have pillar five later is about relationships, and I haven't written it yet It's brewing trust me. It's all in here. Yeah, so yeah, it is sequential. That could be your next speech here or something Absolutely, yeah, it's all sequential. It's kind of you can move through this process Just like the men in my groups move through this process. So for sure give us a little preview of that relationship book Let's see Without revealing too much. We want to keep the mystery. I know I know I was just gosh It's not coming to me. There was a piece that I was just talking to with Socrates Why is that? Come on come on brain work The whole idea of how relationships wait, there's two things how relationships actually grow us up, right? That's a really significant part of it and So Gosh now I lost it. Sorry, it's like too much pressure on On the spot on the spot. So relationships do help us mature. Absolutely Now there's one other thing that was even better than that. I can't think of it Sorry, it's not coming to me right now. It do you think that would go? Well, let's say with the patriarch convention Will it be ready by May? Okay, no, so maybe by next October maybe maybe maybe it all depends on how cuz I'm got so many irons in the fire Yeah, yeah Yeah, for sure. We'll see I almost see this being like a almost like a PBS series Well, I'm wanting to make it into online courses and online You know so that the guys in the online community will be able to kind of use this and go through it and move through all the material and Kind of and it's all about just gaining really strong internal strength and becoming a really man a man Who really knows who he is with the strong internal identity with just understanding masculinity and understanding how that is such a Blessing to the world It's not toxic. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah All right, so there's a man out there who's unsure of himself. He's stuck in life He doesn't know where to go And he's sitting right there inside that camera and I want you to speak to him give him some hope Talk to him directly. Okay. I would say you are good. You have a good heart Now all the stuff you thought about being something's wrong with me or or I I'm not good enough not true You are good enough you have a a lot to offer the world and don't believe all the negative things That have been told you about how you're toxic and how something's wrong with you but start seeking have that curiosity to really seek The really good voices that are speaking to you About how to create a really strong sense of self within you and go for it. It's out there You may not have all the answers But what's important is having the questions the curiosity a conversation with Ken Curry. Thank you Thanks, George appreciate it. What was your experience so far with the 21 convention? Oh I was dead. I was dead professional all across the board really good energy with a lot of people and I just like it's very positive Positive direction this George. This is a this has been a first-class event. It's fantastic. You guys were in a really tight ship I've been to a lot of conventions over the course of my business career And I can tell when things are well run and when things aren't and this is a very well-run operation I was very impressed. It's pretty incredible to see where Anthony's brought it Especially from last year which is my first year here and to see the upgrades he's made it's been incredible I've got my notebook and with every speaker. I've written down about two or three lines under each of the speakers of just Just the key prime stuff that I got that's good. That's great. It's very surreal man. I'm really enjoying it I'm happy to live in such an era Where such a thing like this is possible I have never seen a group of guys like this a group of 200 men We're focused squared away and working on their values just never met a bigger group of wonderful guys It's kind of neat because I've been to a fair amount of conventions in my day But you never see one where the guys like uh here you can just see ed latimore talking to tanner about boxing Yeah, you just sit down and then you tell your boxing experiences. Everybody's kind of pinging off each other. It's yeah It has been fantastic And it's been four days of guys all on the same page working in the same direction fascinating meaning some of the people Hearing their stories. Yep. You got people traveling from other parts of the world to come here just to see Yeah, some of the speakers. That's amazing. The thing is impressed me. Everybody cares very serious. Yeah, they're taking it You know close to their heart A great convention. Thanks, george