 Welcome to the nonprofit show we are so glad to have you here to start your Monday are for those of you that are. I don't know back you know you you join us often I like to refer to Monday as Monday, because Friday gets all the fun so we should really start Monday with a Monday. But today's guest is Alfredo Ramirez and Alfredo is the co founder and co at prosel, and he's here to talk to us about avoiding the RFP process pit so Alfredo I'm excited to have you, and I looking forward to learning more from you here shortly. So Julia Patrick. Thank you for creating this platform I hope you're having a wonderful morning as the cats away the mice will play I'm the mice, or the mouse right so Jared ransom nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group. I'm always honored to be here each and every day to have these conversations. And again Julia CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. Thank you for creating this amazing platform. 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Let's queue up the nonprofit show wherever you like to consume your entertainment and our guest today he admitted that he consumed a lot of this entertainment in preparation of today's show so Alfredo Ramirez super honored to have you here. And for those of you watching and listening Alfredo is the co founder as well as the chief operating officer at prosal and if you want to check out prosal it is prosal.io so welcome Alfredo. Jared, thank you so much for having me I'm very excited to be on this awesome show like you said I listened to a lot of different episodes before I came in preparation and, and I'm just honored to be here and in such an awesome group. Well, I'm really glad to have you and I would like to start off by telling us a little bit about yourself like how did you get into the sector. Keep in mind the show is only 30 minutes right and then also tell us about prosal like what is this platform what is it you do before we dive into the RFP process. Sure thing so I'm happy to share my background. I got into nonprofit work pretty much right out of college. I did a lot of marketing and digital programs for the League of Conservation voters early on worked with in their Latino organizing arm. And it wasn't something that I studied but it turns out that I was pretty good at marketing and advertising. And I happened into it. I moved into consulting after a few years with LCB and worked when with different organizations running their digital programs as well. After I took a bit of a sabbatical I started my own agency doing digital communications mostly focused on working with environmental organizations and foundations. I worked with amazing amazing groups like the wilderness society and Greenpeace and so many others. And in all that time I got to see a lot of RFPs. I wrote them I reviewed them I responded to them I quickly realized that RFPs kind of suck. Yeah good good. I love it you can absolutely say that here. And but and they were they suck because they were you know they're opaque they're complex they're they're overwhelming like there's there's so many addresses that I could use to describe RFPs. But at the end of the day I had accepted them as this necessary evil because they were also a huge source of new clients and business revenue for me and for my agency. I was catching up a few years ago during the pandemic with a friend of mine that I practically grew up with we both went to middle and high school together. And he's an engineer and like all good engineers do he was asking me questions about process improvement and efficiency. He's and I tell him about business development about the RFP is like well what is that thing like why is it why is it so you know opaque and so obscure and so just like. And I found myself saying the most dangerous phrase of the English language which is it's just the way things have always been done. Yeah. And so we and I and we thought it didn't have to be that way so Nick the friend in the story and I came up with the idea of pros and Nick is now the CEO of pros and we built essentially a platform and a community where agencies and consultants of all sizes of all backgrounds can find good RFPs. And when you clients. That is so fascinating and thank you for that I love to me I hear that as like, you know, the back of a napkin story you know we wrote it down literally on the back of a napkin so again those of you watching and listening prosel.io that's prosal.io. So let's get into this right I mean you said it it's better that you said it than I said it RFP suck. So how is the RFP process broken what what does that even mean. Yeah, so it's broken in a few different ways at least that we've found the first piece is that for the most part a lot of organizations when they write the RFP. They tend to describe the world that they want to live in and not the world that they actually live in today and so and that is, and to put it a little more practically they're very solutions oriented rather than problems oriented. Okay, many or many RFPs are written under this idea and this this template or framework of this is the thing that I need I'm hiring someone to build this or to implement this I just need capacity or extra hands to enact this thing. And that's helpful and right in certain cases but oftentimes the RFP is really not just a document that describes this thing that you need help with. But it's also an entire process that's elaborated within the RFP and so because we focus tend to focus more so on the solutions we sometimes avoid the problem that actually we're trying to fix. And in doing so if we come in with the very solutions my oriented mindset, we skip the problem we don't take feedback on if we're actually solving the problem in the right way. And we might potentially address the wrong part of the problem and still continue living with that with that experience and I'll give you just a few examples. I won't get into too many details but we've worked with a lot of organizations where we'll actually run their RFP on their behalf will write the RFP will design the process will connect with the vendors. And it's happened on so many occasions that will will have the first meeting, and we will just ask a few questions about the actual problem that they're experiencing and how they've tackled it. And after like 45 minutes of just talking about the actual problem, we'll get to the end of the meeting and they'll say, well I don't think we actually need an RFP for this I don't think we actually need to hire out I think we got this, and they'll go back and they'll and they'll work with their existing solutions or their existing team, no implemented and they'll skip what could have been an extremely costly and lengthy scenario, because they just hadn't spent the time to think about the actual problem in the first place. And to think through that absolutely. Yeah, that that is really interesting to me and I had shared with you like I rarely respond to RFPs. And I you know when you reach out to me and I look through pros and I was like, this seems different right it looks different it feels different it seems different, but I want us to talk and move into some missing links and we are going to call them really be often missing link and I know I've seen it is budgets. Yeah, so what are you seeing for this. Yeah, so the number one reason when I talk to any agency or to any consultant that they say they skip an RFP is because there's no budget in the RFP right about 50% of agencies that are qualified to respond to an RFP will say well if they're not including a budget in there then I'm not going to reply. And you got to think about it in a certain way. If you're going out to buy a house when you're talking to a real estate agent. You don't tell the real estate agent will come back with a few different options and we'll see what works. No, you, you talk to the agent and you say well, my budget is this because a house can cost you, you know, magnitudes of orders of difference in the same way that a website can cost you $1,000 it can cost you $10,000 it can cost you $100,000 and cost you a million dollars. So you really have to know how much you're playing with, so that you can make sure that the scope of work, and the budget are aligned with one another, and you're bringing in the type of quality proposals, and the agencies or consultants that are eligible and able to work within your ballpark range. You know, I see that also where there's no budget right and so if I have specifically been asked to, you know, submit the RFP, and they say well we don't really know so we're really looking to get it from you I feel like. Are they really comparing apples to apples because I don't know if what I'm submitting is something similar to what someone else is submitting. Are you seeing other missing links beside the budget. Yes, I think the other important missing link that often comes in line with a budget is the opportunity to engage. And that that can be through a different means and methods you can offer people an email so that they can submit their questions and then you publish that Q&A somewhere, you can offer office hours which is something I'm starting to see a little bit more where they'll just put a Cali link or they'll say these are the days that we're making available so that you can come and ask about the RFP. But the opposite of that where you just do not engage whatsoever you don't offer an opportunity to engage again I don't know how many times I've sent someone an email about the RFP and they I get an out of office reply and the day that they're coming back is the day that the proposal is due like that's just for me that's that's not great practice and the and for me the opportunity to engage is also a way to start off a partnership on the right foot. If I as a consultant I'm going to spend anywhere between three and five hours which is about the average time it takes to write a simple proposal. Writing just writing it that doesn't include reviewing the RFP, you know talking to my team, whatever else goes into that if I'm going to spend several hours to just put in a proposal that I'm also not billing for I'm not making money off of this. Right. And I can't get 20 or 30 minutes of your time to even respond to an email or set up a zoom call with me. Then what does that say about the how we're starting off this partnership. Right. And then how that continuation of partnership continuation of availability right like all of that I. It says a lot and and I have seen it to I love slash sarcasm sarcasm right that out of office where it's like okay my job is done I've sent out the RFP you know I'm going to go on vacation or whatever wherever they are right and then I'll just you know sit back and wait for them to show up the day the day that I'm back and it's like oh my gosh it's just you can't just you know click the checkbox and be done and what that looks like. So all fascinating and I, I feel like Alfredo you and I could talk a lot for this because you know I love that you're saying and even your pocket, you know it says this RFP sucks and I've been through the process and I have a similar concept of that. So we're going to talk about finding new connections and a new well what do we mean when we say this. Yeah, so I've, you had a guest on a few weeks ago, which was Jerry Diaz talking about how to work with with nonprofit consultants, and we're essentially to hire them. So the question that that was asked very particularly about the pros and the cons versus hiring someone you trust and someone that you know versus going out and finding someone new outside of what we call the usual suspects. And you all brought up a lot of good points about this, this kind of the two sides of the same point about the working with someone that you trust that gets you that gets the mission that gets the organization can probably do work pretty versus having versus testing something different and maybe getting a different perspective and a, and a different take or a different approach. And for me, I think it's incredibly important to go out especially in an RFP process. When you're putting out something if you're doing something that's open and competitive, going out and finding people that you don't know that don't think like you that aren't from the same places as you zoom and so many other technologies have enabled us to live in a world where we work with people halfway across the world. So, why not take advantage of that and do that I've seen. I saw an organization in Maine, a community foundation in Maine hire a website designer in Montana because they had worked with the same types of partners and they built that connection through pros and the same and in the same way that other organizations have found potential partners that they never knew existed, but challenge them to think about their problems and their solutions in different ways. And again, that connection would never have happened if they hadn't thought about well let me go find someone that I don't know to talk to me about this project or about this scope. I love that story one thing Julia Patrick and I have seen over the course of our episodes and the you know last three and a half four years is touching base with experts and leaders across the nation, and seeing how things are being done and the ideas of the nation. So I love hearing that this main organization connected with a Montana Montana business, because they might bring kind of their own flair if you will because of regionality, you know, and what you had said in the very beginning of today's episode is kind of, well that's the way we've always done it. And so really, you know sending out this call for RFP, you know going into new wells looking for new connections. So I love hearing different perspectives and different experiences so I love the story and I'm sure you have plenty more. And I don't want to go into the story but I do actually want to give some practical recommendations for people that are looking for new wells. So shameless plug, prosal is the first place that you should go to post any RFP we have a community of over 1600 agencies and consultants, all across the US as well as in Canada and in Europe. There's different services like strategic planning marketing communications web development you name it we got it, but not just prosal if you're on a listserv there's amazing nonprofit groups and listservs like progressive exchange the communications network and consultants for good. There's different job boards and trade associations that are very specific to nonprofit professionals. Those places where these consultants and these communities live, and especially put in that effort if you are trying to hire someone that looks different that is different from the from the communities and the folks that you regularly work with. Yeah, great advice and of course I love the shameless plug and the other resources that you've provided so thank you for that. Connections is is pretty critical and if we're looking for RFPs I'm just going to ask this off the cuff. How many are we wanting to receive right is there a certain number that's kind of that sweet spot. Yeah, so as a as a nonprofit running an organ in RFP, I would say the sweet spot is somewhere between seven to 10. And I would actually I would say that's a maximum I would say 10 is the maximum you really don't want to be reading more than 10 proposals your eyes go a little bit sideways after that. But if you can find and connect with and invite five to seven organizations agencies or consultants to submit proposals to your RFP, and you trust in those organizations and in those proposals, then you're going to be reading five to seven very high quality approaches to your problem with different budgets with different thought scenarios and everything that would go into solving and tackling your challenge or your project, and ultimately will just lead to a better outcome for you. I like that so seven to 10 is kind of that sweet spot. Well that moves me into the critical value of team input, and I can't help but think, you know, when we think of the team Alfredo who should be a part of creating the RFP, as well as reviewing it right so talk to us about the value of team input. Yes. So, in team input, Marine will be off who is a nonprofit technology consultant she's amazing I did a show with her back in November. She has a like a five phase approach to the to the RFP process and phase one is research and discovery pretty much in the same way that consultants with an organization, your team should have a research and discovery process to figure out what we were talking a little bit about earlier what is the problem that we're looking what is the ideal solution or solutions that were open to how much budget do we have to pay for this thing. How long do we have to take. One of the really important questions that you know you're going to get asked anyway during this process and bring in the people that are going to be directly or indirectly impacted by the work indirectly can be pretty broad if you're working especially with a large organization. But I would say anyone that is going to be working directly with the consultants say if you're doing. Let's call it let's give an example say you're doing a website redevelopment bring in everyone that is part of your website team anyone that is in charge of contents anyone that is in charge of emails. How are you communicating that out to the world you're going to be doing a new website that probably requires you to bring in a comms person. So think about all the different elements where your RFP is going to plug in to different departments or teams at your nonprofit and maybe pick one or two people. Depending on how many people you're bringing in probably maximum you want is like five people think of it like maybe a job hiring committee or job job hiring board. Look at the RFP review it make sure it's good from everyone's perspective so that everyone has their input in their domain expertise is included and then consider what is their level of involvement in ultimately selecting the person that is going to fulfill the project. Yeah, I could see you know in the nonprofit sector we talked early about how we are often late to adopt technology I feel like we are also often working in silos. And I see that in the RFP process right and so you're just speaking to the value of the team input again to break down these silos, this shouldn't what I'm hearing be a one person, you know, task if you will. Is there a matter of time for the RFP how long that should be open, you know for considering five people in particular for the team input. What does that mean for timeline. Yes, so I would suggest I know RFP sometimes come in a moment of urgency, sometimes like the money will fall into your pocket or you just figure out that you really have this need and so you kind of want to rush through it. And as much as the urgency of the situation might push you to do that I would encourage people to take a breath and just think about well, what are the long term impacts of the decisions that we are making today with this hire and with the project that we're implementing. And in doing so take at the very least a week, ideally, two to three weeks to think about just the RFP and the project this is before you've even written a document or while you're writing the document before you shared it out to the world. Once it goes out into the world. I would probably suggest an air between three to four weeks to leave that open so that folks can discover it, talk to you set time to review it and and write the proposal with their team most of the agencies that I talked to. If they see an RFP that is due in less than two weeks they just won't reply to it because there's too many other things on their plates. There's other business development needs that they have to address there's client needs. And so you really have to make sure that you're reaching folks where they are at so that you can bring in the best quality of of proposals. And then when it comes to the valuation itself. I was gonna say it's hard to squeeze that in you know to say okay, and if you're dealing with the value of the team you know five people. It's like, getting all of those calendars seemed to be a challenge when that out of office hits. Yeah, and then I would say, take your take a little bit of time with the evaluation to ideally again sometime somewhere between two to three weeks, probably no more than that. You want to give yourself time to be able to review the proposals ask any follow up questions schedule those interviews and then make a decision. But in talking to this entire process that I've laid out like the shortest amount of time that I would recommend from start date of saying, oh well we need this thing to we have hired a consultant for it to be done well is probably two to three months. Okay. That's a great timeline. You know again I shared yesterday I was leading a strategic planning retreat, and there was a lot of new projects that came up right. And one person in particular was like, oh we could get this done in 60 days and I'm like, but can you like can you really, and especially if it comes to you know bringing in additional people that aren't already involved in the organization. So having that timeline that you just outlined for us Alfredo is, I think such a like that cherry on the top information so thank you for that. What else as our time is is drawing near what else would you say like definitely consider this when it comes to the RFP process. What are some things that prosal is you know, providing solutions to so what, what can you recommend to us as we move forward. I would say that technology and your peers are your friends, especially when it comes to this there's no such thing as rps one on one there's no college course that you're going to take, there's no certification that you're going to sign up for, maybe yet, but So it's hard to talk about RFPs in an objective manner when, especially in the nonprofit sector, a lot of it relies on what we see other people do or what templates we find online. And so it's important to think about, well what is right for my organization, you know what what has worked well for me in the past and for my team what has worked well for other organizations and other teams in the past, and try to use those indicators as helpful points to say well, if I'm a, you know, very large environmental organization and I'm doing a communications plan update or strategic plan update. And we're thinking about going out with an RFP and I just saw another large environmental organization go through the exact same process. I might want to reach out to them and see how the process what to that one for them, what if they chose a vendor what vendor they use, how did it go well what what didn't go well what they improve. So really take lessons from that crowd sourcing. And I say that, and I also say that with, with, you know, an emphasis on not only taking the information that others have already created, but also look to see what you can create yourself. I just, I hate it on templates a little bit right now. But if you do are if you are starting from zero. Prozo has a ton of free RFP resources and templates, we've created templates for communications and branding and web development and strategic planning. All for RFPs we've created evaluation matrices, all really documents to just help you get off the ground, and moving into something that you can say well we're ready to really put this out into the world. What are some of the and I wanted to bring your information up because thank you for that prosel.io what are some of the more frequent proposals RFPs that you're seeing come through your platform. Yes, we, we got a ton of them. A lot in strategic planning. Everyone loves doing the strategic planning and looking for strategic planning support. Marketing and communications as well, especially when it comes to maybe a very campaign focus projects or just additional capacity on a project. And then I would say it and web development are other ones that are very, very pronounced. We see lesson but are still still frequent our platform I would say we're involved around diversity equity and inclusion work human resources fundraising and development. And all these are elements that are important not only to nonprofits but other organizations as well so also consider taking a hint from the private sector that they also do RFPs as well they publish our fees on prosel they publish our fees elsewhere and see what what the lessons that you can bring in and maybe be the first to implement at your organization that might not have been done might not have been used there in the past in the past yeah what can we learn from. Well this has been fascinating I love the innovation and the technology that you're providing the connections that you're providing across the globe really so Alfredo Ramirez thank you so very much. And also to your CEO as well Alfredo serves as co founder, as well as chief operations officer at prosel again that web address is prosel prosal.io. You can find more information I personally want to check out those templates because you piqued my interest in those templates I think that would be really interesting to see. So again, I'm Jared ransom Julia Patrick created this amazing conversation platform for us to have conversations like the ones that we just did here with Alfredo from prosel. So again thanks for joining us and thanks to our amazing presenting sponsors. Allow us these conversations day in day out, we broadcast live every single weekday Monday through Friday so again thank you so very much to bloom ring American nonprofit Academy fundraising Academy at National University nonprofit thought leader, your part time founder, staffing boutique nonprofit nerd as well as nonprofit tech talk. Thank you so very much. And as we end every episode Alfredo we like to remind you, our viewers and our listeners to please stay well, so we can all continue to do well. Thank you for this information it's so very valuable. Thank you for having me Jared love the show and have a great rest of your day y'all. Absolutely. See you soon.